Blown Motors

[Dragon Queen]

I am suprised that there have been hardly any Blown Motor threads on here....There must be a small representation of MS6 vehicles on this forum.

[chriscecc914]

why are the other forums showing alot of blown motors on the ms6? I only know of 2 on this site. me being one of them.

[laloosh]

go to the other mazda6 forums. I can count 5 in the past month. The ms6's are blowing left and right for some reason.

[Dragon Queen]

go to the other mazda6 forums. I can count 5 in the past month. The ms6's are blowing left and right for some reason.

I have lurked over at the other board, and I have seen blown motors but My question is why have they not been posted here too?

[Killer]

Maybe those folks are not members here.

[cherryspeed]

No offense intended to anyone on this forum, but while the focus of the two forums is very similar, the execution is quite different. I simply do not see a lot of 6club (can I even type that) members equally active on both. I think this is true of the members here as well.
Things here seem to be of a more aggressive nature: like a prominent member here flaming a post about a fuel pump, when he felt his shop (who sponsors him) was not getting the credit it deserved. While the facts of his argument may very well be true - the nature in which he presented his argument, caught him some flack over there (shocking).
Not a criticism, just an observation.

[Powerslave]

what is cuaseing the motors to blow?

[Dragon Queen]

Well from what I gather Rods are failing....

It's just Misrepresentation and it's sad. This is mazda24/7 not just dedicated to Mazda3's, Mazdaspeed3's or Proteges....

[Dr. D]

its simple and although people might get offended but the fact of the matter remains... TUNING! tuning is not an easy thing to do infact it is fairly difficuly especially if you don't know the limits of your car. not to many people know to much about this engine (MZR) not to mention the DISI and the CRAZY compression ratio. if you think you can put a huge turbo on and even if you run normal boost shit will still happen b/c of the volume of air flowing and that is just one example now i am not sure what people are doing with these cars when they are putting on these huge turbos or even turning up the boost. all i know is that before i raise boost or swap turbos or even mess with the ECU for that matter i am going to wait a little bit to do some more research.

[mdogg]

its simple and although people might get offended but the fact of the matter remains... TUNING! tuning is not an easy thing to do infact it is fairly difficuly especially if you don't know the limits of your car. not to many people know to much about this engine (MZR) not to mention the DISI and the CRAZY compression ratio. if you think you can put a huge turbo on and even if you run normal boost shit will still happen b/c of the volume of air flowing and that is just one example now i am not sure what people are doing with these cars when they are putting on these huge turbos or even turning up the boost. all i know is that before i raise boost or swap turbos or even mess with the ECU for that matter i am going to wait a little bit to do some more research.
In my reading, it appears that more motors have blown without the ATP turbos than have blown with the bigger turbo.

[Killer]

its simple and although people might get offended but the fact of the matter remains... TUNING! tuning is not an easy thing to do infact it is fairly difficuly especially if you don't know the limits of your car. not to many people know to much about this engine (MZR) not to mention the DISI and the CRAZY compression ratio. if you think you can put a huge turbo on and even if you run normal boost shit will still happen b/c of the volume of air flowing and that is just one example now i am not sure what people are doing with these cars when they are putting on these huge turbos or even turning up the boost. all i know is that before i raise boost or swap turbos or even mess with the ECU for that matter i am going to wait a little bit to do some more research.

(werd)

[Carlos E]

Ladies and gentlemen i am sorry to report that my motor just blew up!!!
I was driving on the highway doing a steady 80mph (in other words no load) and blew a rod straight through the cylinder wall. I contacted mazda and they denied my waranty because i replaced the last cat on the exhaust system (bs right?!?!). Anyway mazda wants $10000 for the motor and $2000 for labor. Considering thats a third of the original value of the car i refuse to pay that.
My question: to all of you are:
1) Does anyone selling a crate motor for the MS6?
2) What would be the most cost efective way of getting this car back on the road?
Any sugestions would be greately apreciated guys. I baby my car and have done only minor mods: rear motor mount, cp-e intake, cp-e cat back and greddy boost controller which i actually used to take the boost level from 15.5 to 13 flat just because the car felt too jerky in city traffic. This car has never even been redlined much less run at the track.

Look foreward to any input and thanks in advance.

[2.0t03speed]

what did you replace the last cat with a test pipe?

[2.0t03speed]

and your best bet would be ken at protege garage for the fully built short block.

[laloosh]

Ladies and gentlemen i am sorry to report that my motor just blew up!!!
I was driving on the highway doing a steady 80mph (in other words no load) and blew a rod straight through the cylinder wall. I contacted mazda and they denied my waranty because i replaced the last cat on the exhaust system (bs right?!?!). Anyway mazda wants $10000 for the motor and $2000 for labor. Considering thats a third of the original value of the car i refuse to pay that.
My question: to all of you are:
1) Does anyone selling a crate motor for the MS6?
2) What would be the most cost efective way of getting this car back on the road?
Any sugestions would be greately apreciated guys. I baby my car and have done only minor mods: rear motor mount, cp-e intake, cp-e cat back and greddy boost controller which i actually used to take the boost level from 15.5 to 13 flat just because the car felt too jerky in city traffic. This car has never even been redlined much less run at the track.

Look foreward to any input and thanks in advance.

so you managed to lower boost with a boost controller?
you also said you have a i/cat back exhuast but got denied warranty for not haveing a cat? ummm

I love hearing all these i was cruising and it blew stories, i just find them wierd and full of shit.

[JoseProte83]

didn't he had 20,000 miles back in August?

[laloosh]

Ok so I have 20000 miles on my MS6 and so far I love the car. Recently however the car has been over-boosting like crazy!!! I was on the turnpike when it first time it happened and I noticed the boost went from my normal boost setting of 110Kpa (15.9 psi) to like 180Kpa (26.1 psi).
Keep in mind I have several mods to my car. Those I think might be relevant to the problem are: HKS blow off valve, HKS electronic boost controller and maybe the cpe intake.
Since I first experienced the problem I have re-done all the vacuum lines twice and replaced the HKS boost controller for a Greddy B-spec II because after I replaced the lines and seeing it didn’t help I assumed it was the solenoid to the boost controller. Since I replaced the solenoid the boost hasn’t peaked to the extreme of with the HKS unit but I also have been reluctant to increase the gain on the controller past about 20%. Even with this though I am seeing irregular pressure, normally it will be about 13psi but under some conditions it will spike to around 15.6psi.
Today I ordered the vacuum chamber (which sits below the intercooler and attached to the top of the intake manifold) the solenoid which is housed inside the chamber and the fuel pressure regulator as I think I might have I vacuum leak from one of these.
Any input on this matter will be greatly appreciated. Any theories or ideas as to what I might want to check next? I am especially interested in whether it is even possible for the turbo in the MS6 to develop 26psi even for a short time.
Also I am sorry if I posted in the wrong place but I am not very familiar with this forum and truly I am at my wits end trying to figure this out.

it had 20k 3 months ago and it still does. also 13psi tuns in 26psi.....hmm once again the bullshit piles up

[2.0t03speed]

wow 26psi

[2.0t03speed]

double the boost with only a cai, and cat-back with no ems and thats proabbly what did most of the damage to your motor. im pretty sure as soon as they saw the profec they denied your claim well at least i would have.

[Dr. D]

26psi = BOOM!!!

[2.0t03speed]

lol id hate to see my msp at 26 psi

[Dr. D]

my ms6 will never see 26psi unless i drop in a 4G63

[2.0t03speed]

same with my msp

[Carlos E]

ok first to laloosh. dude seriously if you have nothing productive to say just mind your own business since u really dont know what ur talking about. Yes i have a cat back and yes i replaced the cat that sits uhhh, just forward of the exhaust hence the term " cat-back exhaust". Also i WAS doing 80, in fact i had my cruise on because i was driving on the florida turnpike from miami to gainesville with a total of 360 miles and my underware size is 32 if u need to know that too. Oh and yes i lowered my boost with a boost controller since that is part of it's function. I confirmed this lower boost with my boost controller reading as well as my boost gauge (aftermarket loosh the MS6 doesnt come with one).

Anyway aside from this useless trash talking which does nothing but litter the forum i want to thank 3speed for actually providing useful information. Seriously my friend you have my deepest thanks and if u are ever in orlando drinks r on me.

[laloosh]

ok first to laloosh. dude seriously if you have nothing productive to say just mind your own business since u really dont know what ur talking about. Yes i have a cat back and yes i replaced the cat that sits uhhh, just forward of the exhaust hence the term " cat-back exhaust". Also i WAS doing 80, in fact i had my cruise on because i was driving on the florida turnpike from miami to gainesville with a total of 360 miles and my underware size is 32 if u need to know that too. Oh and yes i lowered my boost with a boost controller since that is part of it's function. I confirmed this lower boost with my boost controller reading as well as my boost gauge (aftermarket loosh the MS6 doesnt come with one).

Anyway aside from this useless trash talking which does nothing but litter the forum i want to thank 3speed for actually providing useful information. Seriously my friend you have my deepest thanks and if u are ever in orlando drinks r on me.

i dont know what im talking about? how bout u stop acting innocent saying your engine blew. You made postw before saying you car was hitting 26psi, what do you think caused the stress in your engine? You fucked it up, it blew, deal with it. Dont lie about it


here's a tip: there's more than one dealer. Take off the boost controller and try again.

[Carlos E]

guys i fail to understand how someone can sit and just search the forums looking to talk smack so here itis. I have 3 cars and one bike. The MS6 actually has 23349 miles on the odometer and it is my toy and as that only gets driven once or twice a month. I live in orlando roughly 18 miles from my place of work and i use my bike as my primary mode of transportation because of the traffic situation down here.
My point being: it is impossible for me to give u all all my daily habbits since i dont think any of u really want to hear it plus i dnt have the time to b on here all day i actually work for a living.
Frankly i was under the impresion that the spirit of the forum is to get people together, talk about our experiences and figure out ways to get around mechanical issues with our cars which the manufactures might not be exactly dying to share with us.
At no time did i claim the details were important since i am paying for the rebuild myself. I was simply asking if anyone had any information on what my options might be.
To those that helped my sincerest thanks to those who just nit pick every last sentence...seriously get a job!

[Carlos E]

loosh i hav been all over this forum and havnt seen u provide a SINGLE piece of useful information to ANYONE here...

[davesxx01]

I love hearing all these i was cruising and it blew stories, i just find them wierd and full of shit.

While I know nothing about Carlos, why do you say weird and full of it?

I can fully beleive that an engine can launch while crusing down the highway,,,, it happened to me also!

I had a 99 Neon R/T that was built and juiced, ran like a raped ape! Then one day, while crusing along at 60, she let go, and I mean let go as in get the push broom to pick up the metal bits along the highway!

Engines can "go" anytime, not just when pushing big boost or a 75 shot (dunno)

Carlos, as laloosh said though, I would have tried to put the 2nd cat back on, ditch the controller, and went to another dealer asap!
Although I have no idea why removing the 2nd cat could possibly kill an engine, I beleive the dealer you went to was just looking for excuesses not to do it.

[Carlos E]

yeah i replaced the last cat with the ( I believe) ATP test pipe

[laloosh]

if you dont think i actually help people on here you shoudl search harder. Ms3 owners come to my house for installs, i get a pm every day about a tunning question or "how do i" question. Like i said before, take off the mbc, leave the other stuff one and go to a different dealer. They cant void your warranty for bolt ons if you dont alter the boost. If they do, they must proove to you that your cat delete caused the damage.

[PerformanceRacing]

The car should handle 25psi with a proper tune.

Supposedly the CEO or head or w/e of Mazdaspeed owns a Speed6, port injected, 500+awhp, stock block.

[Captain KRM P5]

The car should handle 25psi with a proper tune.

Supposedly the CEO or head or w/e of Mazdaspeed owns a Speed6, port injected, 500+awhp, stock block.

"supposedly" being the operative word. i've long asked for proof (exterior shots don't count folks) and was told that the car was no longer in existence and was "crushed".

for the record i think laloosh is helpful here and on other forums from what i have seen. lets leave the bickering to the kindergarteners and keep a positive spirit here.

[2.0t03speed]

i wonder why it was crushed? o wait i know maybe the motor blew to pieces...

[Raynman]

All the more reason you people should go to the races, join the corrals that I help set up, and show your support for Mazdaspeed. You never know who you'll run into at the Mazda paddocks. Some of them are nice enough to talk to you about the interesting cars that they've driven. :)

[orlandomsp]

i wonder why it was crushed? o wait i know maybe the motor blew to pieces...

I think it has something to do with liability. If they modify a car they won't sell it to the public afterwards.

[chriscecc914]

maybe you guys are misunderstanding laloosh. What he is meaning to say is that your engines didnt blow at cruising speed for no reason. There are other factors that caused the engine to blow, and it just happened to blow while you were cruising. But sometimes people fail to mention what those other factors are until later. 26psi on the ms6 and NOS in your neon were those factors. Just my opinion.

[laloosh]

maybe you guys are misunderstanding laloosh. What he is meaning to say is that your engines didnt blow at cruising speed for no reason. There are other factors that caused the engine to blow, and it just happened to blow while you were cruising. But sometimes people fail to mention what those other factors are until later. 26psi on the ms6 and NOS in your neon were those factors. Just my opinion.

ding ding ding....

[Carlos E]

Fact is i never claimed my boost spike issues didnt cause the damage that eventualy led to my blown motor. My friend i grew up around cars all my life, i rebuilt my first tranny at 14yrs old ad my brother is a mechanic by trade; i simply have no experienced with forced induction.
In fact i KNOW thats what caused it and i was simply looking for information on the subject which, to my understanding is the point of the forum. But dont tell me that im full of it because you dont believe a motor can blow during highway cruising because i know for a fact that it can.
Frankly i simply do not have the time to sit here every day and post every last detail and ( no offence ) why would i lie to anyone here, its not like anyone here is going to pay for my motor. I simply need some advice which if the shoe were on the other foot and i had experience on the subject i would gladly give.

Guys again thanks very much for all your help. It was very useful and if mazda does in fact deny my waranty i will be posting info on the motor i plan to build from the ground up rods, pistons, upgraded turbo which i actually already have...the works.

[trees]

The car should handle 25psi with a proper tune.

Supposedly the CEO or head or w/e of Mazdaspeed owns a Speed6, port injected, 500+awhp, stock block.

Just A lie to give you mazdaspeed6 owner a sence of FALSE hope...

[Raynman]

Just A lie to give you mazdaspeed6 owner a sence of FALSE hope...

Or is it? <dun dun dun> (lol2)

[jcgemt2003]

Just A lie to give you mazdaspeed6 owner a sence of FALSE hope...
A LIE....A VERY BIG LIE

[Killer]

yep

[Dr. D]

i concur

[Magus]

Hey guys,
Do you think it could be the cruise control? I was wondering if maybe the CC cut fuel to slow speed and thus blew? Personally, I would never use CC if I had a turbo. Also, go with Ken about an engine, it's got to be cheaper and better build then stock from Mazda. I know how you feel and I hope you get your car up and running.

Magus

[Captain KRM P5]

A LIE....A VERY BIG LIE

no way. mazda never lies. the rx8 makes 255hp like the first brochure said. the rods in DISI are forged like the article says. the flywheels are interchangable between all 2.3 engines like mazdausa.com says.

[Sacrilicious]

the rx8 makes 255hp like the first brochure said.

for serious...the automatic!


AT THE WHEELS! (eek2)

[ATE BALLER]

Talk to Mr.Tea on the other forum about that car. He's seen the car and spoken with the guy at his own place of business in person. It's no BS. Several people on the other forum have spoken with him, and he gives the same detailed list to everyone who has asked. On top of that, his face is kind of well known around the Mazdaspeed buildings and he has a high reputation. I wouldn't call BS until you get all the facts. I don't find it hard to believe at all, really. Ever seen Chevy's 200+mph Cobalt using mostly parts you can buy from Chevy? It was featured momentarily on a program on Speed (not the one from Street Tuner Challenge) being tested in the salt flats. Performance divisions of automotive manufacturers are paid to make selected models faster. That's thier job. It's what they do. Why wouldn't you think Mazdaspeed would take a crack at their highest bhp/btq vehicle they offer? It may not have been publicised, but that's probably because they didn't want to take any spotlight off their precious MS3.

[Sacrilicious]

The car should handle 25psi with a proper tune.

Supposedly the CEO or head or w/e of Mazdaspeed owns a Speed6, port injected, 500+awhp, stock block.

something tells me that it's going to require MUCH more than just a tune to handle enough boost to put down 500+ hp at the wheels. the car was made to ship with ~280hp at the crank, so to even THINK about putting close to 2x that amount down at the wheels would require an extensive rebuild of the powertrain internals including pistons, rods, intake, turbo, trannie, axle (oh god the poor axle...), exhaust, etc. hell, if i remember correctly, people are reluctant to even put slicks on the stock ms6 because actually putting down that much power has been known to cause axle trouble for its AWD.

[chriscecc914]

something tells me that it's going to require MUCH more than just a tune to handle enough boost to put down 500+ hp at the wheels. the car was made to ship with ~280hp at the crank, so to even THINK about putting close to 2x that amount down at the wheels would require an extensive rebuild of the powertrain internals including pistons, rods, intake, turbo, trannie, axle (oh god the poor axle...), exhaust, etc. hell, if i remember correctly, people are reluctant to even put slicks on the stock ms6 because actually putting down that much power has been known to cause axle trouble for its AWD.

no way. This car is falling apart on people running stock power. No way 500+hp would work out in stock form. I have an extensive rebuild and im hoping i can get enough fuel to hit those kinds of #'s

[jcgemt2003]

Im still calling BS.

[matsuda]

Hey guys,
Do you think it could be the cruise control? I was wondering if maybe the CC cut fuel to slow speed and thus blew? Personally, I would never use CC if I had a turbo.
Magus

What???

The cruise control controls the throttle just like your right foot does and therefore will not damage the motor.

Regarding the fuel cut, it is normal for the injectors not to open when you are coasting. No fuel = no combustion = no problem.

[Sacrilicious]

What???

The cruise control controls the throttle just like your right foot does and therefore will not damage the motor.

Regarding the fuel cut, it is normal for the injectors not to open when you are coasting. No fuel = no combustion = no problem.

+1

lol...can you imagine if cutting fuel to slow down the car blew engines? everyone who's ever used engine braking to slow down would be constantly playing with fire! (rlaugh)

[jmargel]

My engine just blew, 2004 6i, 51400 miles on it. 1,400 miles over warranty and the dealership is giving me a very hard time. Check out my post, I just made a post about this.

I am very pissed, considering we just purchased a Mazda3 from them this past June.

[martinolsen]

What are our pistons made out of I know the crank and the rods are forged, are the pistons?

[Haltech]

My engine just blew, 2004 6i, 51400 miles on it. 1,400 miles over warranty and the dealership is giving me a very hard time. Check out my post, I just made a post about this.

I am very pissed, considering we just purchased a Mazda3 from them this past June.

Contact your Mazda regional service rep. They will take care of this. If you still dont find resolution, contact the Mazda Arbitration Board and file a claim.

I had a similar issue on the 98 SVT Cobra. Rod bearing spun, car was out of warranty by 11,238 miles. Ford replaced my engine and gave me an additional 24,000 mile warranty on the new engine. I did have to pay a $500 deductable however, but that was a small price to pay considering the $8100 price tag of the replacement.

[2.0t03speed]

What are our pistons made out of I know the crank and the rods are forged, are the pistons?

sorry your rods are not forged and neithr are your pistons im not sure about the crank tho.

[2.0t03speed]

no the rods are not forged they are cast. they have casting patterns and marks.

[2.0t03speed]

o and btw they are made out of the same shit that my sotck rods are made out of in my fs motor.

[2.0t03speed]

sadly i am aware of the article. it comes from the same corporate mouth pieces who say the flywheels are interchangable between the turbo and non turbo 2.3. it still says to date on mazdausa's website you can use "mazdaspeed motorsports" flywheels on either 2.3 which is 110% not true.

the rods have casting patterns and casting marks on them. the pistons are definetely not forged. thats why i posted the pictures in two threads comparing stock to aftermarket. the rod is made of the same material as one i chunked out of my FS 2.0, and those are also cast.



pm me or call me any time. you have my cell phone number :)

heres the post straight from ken who had disassembled and built the 2.3l mazdaspeed motors.

[jmargel]

Contact your Mazda regional service rep. They will take care of this. If you still dont find resolution, contact the Mazda Arbitration Board and file a claim.

I had a similar issue on the 98 SVT Cobra. Rod bearing spun, car was out of warranty by 11,238 miles. Ford replaced my engine and gave me an additional 24,000 mile warranty on the new engine. I did have to pay a $500 deductable however, but that was a small price to pay considering the $8100 price tag of the replacement.

Ok.. thanks..

I called corporate this morning, since the service manager never called them back. I had to call the service manager late yesterday afternoon to remind him he has a voicemail that the corporation left. I was pissed that he is sitting on his ass..

When I called corp. again this morning they told me they now have the district and regional manager involved and within' 10 minutes I got a call from the dealership asking me to fax over all my receipts for my oil changes. Looking up the 2004 Mazda6 owner's manual there are two different schedules. One at 4 months/5,000 miles and one at 6 months/7,500 miles. Not sure why they have two on there.

The most I went between oil changes was 5400 miles, which I don't think would be a problem. Glad you got your ford fixed, I had a mustang as well under warranty and when they fixed the intake gasket, the dealership noticed the intake itself was messed up and fixed that for me.

[Wintermute]

Looking up the 2004 Mazda6 owner's manual there are two different schedules. One at 4 months/5,000 miles and one at 6 months/7,500 miles. Not sure why they have two on there.

That is because there are two service intervals for the car, based on your average driving conditions. The shorter interval is for "severe" conditions: Hot weather, dusty conditions, heavy stop and go traffic, aggressive/spirited driving. The longer interval is for "normal" conditions (i.e. you don't live in the desert and you don't spend 4 hours a day doing 10 mph spurts in traffic jams).

Most modern cars have this.

[gooniac33]

Contact your Mazda regional service rep. They will take care of this. If you still dont find resolution, contact the Mazda Arbitration Board and file a claim.

I had a similar issue on the 98 SVT Cobra. Rod bearing spun, car was out of warranty by 11,238 miles. Ford replaced my engine and gave me an additional 24,000 mile warranty on the new engine. I did have to pay a $500 deductable however, but that was a small price to pay considering the $8100 price tag of the replacement.

+2

It is not up to the dealer in this instance. It is up to the manufacturer. They should stand behind this. The dealers try to be stupid and don't want anything to do with it but it really isn't their call. So what he said! I think they call it "goodwill" warranty or something along those lines....

[PeterSellers]

no the rods are not forged they are cast. they have casting patterns and marks.

This is incorrect. Please stop spreading false information.

[2.0t03speed]

This is incorrect. Please stop spreading false information.

really so your calling ken the owner of protege garage a liar?

[martinolsen]

sorry your rods are not forged and neithr are your pistons im not sure about the crank tho.
If you don't know for sure please don't post you might confuse some one who is more impressionable....
From http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_display.cfm?release=24323



Creating the DISI Turbo engine involved more than just changing the injection system and adding a turbocharger, though. The form and materials used for the major components are optimized to bear the added load and heat of the increased output. The aluminum cylinder block and cylinder head are made using a new implementation of the Mazda Advanced Precision Casting process, which increases their strength. In addition, cross drilling between the cylinder liners and between the valve bridges in the head improves coolant flow and heat resistance. The crankshaft and connecting rods are made of forged steel, wrist pins are a new full-floating design, connecting rods have an optimized shape and larger journal size, and pistons are designed for maximum stiffness and durability.

[2.0t03speed]

hahah im sorry but that is a lie. also you will see that they say that all the flywheels are interchangeable between the turbo and non turbo 2.3l. that is also not true.

[martinolsen]

Than that is false representation and that could cause a class action lawsuit…. So if it were true why haven’t any of the people with blown motors filed with an attorney?

[2.0t03speed]

if they are forged then why are the speed 6's blowing left and right? they have the same motor. im telling you there not im pretty sure if ken who builds forged motors for the ms3's and ms6's says there not forged and there made out of the same shit thats in the regular fs-de im going to believe him.

[2.0t03speed]

Than that is false representation and that could cause a class action lawsuit…. So if it were true why haven’t any of the people with blown motors filed with an attorney?


why file a lawsuit when mazda is going to replace the motor in the 1st place? also im pretty sure the ppl's motors who have blown havent been stock.

[martinolsen]

Because the engine is only as good as its weakest link… If Ford says the rods are forged they have to be Period. Could you imagine the lawsuit if it was a lie? From the limited knowledge I have of the MZR it seems the week link is the pistons. It’s just like the Hyundai Tiburon’s GK platform (which I also own) the pistons are crumbling causing the piston to seize to the cylinder wall causing to prove…

Newton's first law of motion “An object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force.”

Your crank is still turning when your piston decides to get stuck causing the next weakest link to be the Connecting Rods. People often will think the obvious is the solution with out taking into consideration alternate possibilities.

[2.0t03speed]

so are you just not trying to read that the rods are mad eout of the same material and have casting marks and patters just like the rods in my fs-de. and seriously if you try and tell me that they are forged you should just leave the forums lol.

[martinolsen]

so are you just not trying to read that the rods are mad eout of the same material and have casting marks and patters just like the rods in my fs-de. and seriously if you try and tell me that they are forged you should just leave the forums lol.

Maybe the problem is no one knows what Fords definition of forged is... But I also feel that you are reading what I am typing but your not understanding what it means.... Thank you but I think I'll stay I kind of like having this debate, considering you answered a question I didn't ask.

[2.0t03speed]

im pretty sure im understanding what your typing. Also im not going to bother debating this with you anymore you obviously dont want to believe it so there no reason to try and force the truth on you. o and i said i did not know if the crank was forged or not if you read =).i think you miss understood what i said in my last post... when i said "they" i was talking about my msp rods not the ms3 rods.

[martinolsen]

I'd love to sit and wait but I gotta catch some Z's 3rd shift sucks. 2.0t03speed no hard feelings, I am just trying to learn as much as I can in a short period. I bought my car on Sat and I am afraid to do anything to it because people are blowing these cars up. I probably won't have 500 miles on the car before I put a new rotating assembly into the car.

[2.0t03speed]

i hear you man i can tell by your post count that your pretty new maybe ken will come in here and shead some light as to the ms3 rod situation =). take it easy

[martinolsen]

obviously dont want to believe it so there no reason to try and force the truth on you.

I am open minded about it its just that it wouldn't make sense to lie about it, because Ford/Mazda could get SUED.... You know just as well as I do this society is sue happy and always looking for ways to get money quick out of simple things. That’s why I am surprised that a company would do that.

[martinolsen]

thanks man you too.

[mdogg]

Msf/m6c > M247

[2.0t03speed]

mazda usa

[redrocketz]

Who is the "they" that says these parts are interchangeable? I haven't read that anywhere.

it's on the mazda website under mazdaspeed accessories

[MS6mike]

my car blew at spike at 25 psi(scratch)(dunno)

mods on the engine.

ATP gt3076r1 turbo.
ATP catless down pipe.
ATP 3in turbo inlet.
CPE CAI.
CP-E EMS .
CP-E FMIC.
CP-E single turbo back exhaust.
CP-E motor mount.
HKS BOV.
Spec stage 3 +clucth.

[2.0t03speed]

lol. i remeber reading your thread when that all went down. shit sucks. that thread was also where i pulled kens comment about the rods being cast =)

[MS6mike]

yea o well at least the car is moving!

[laloosh]

25psi on a gt30 with all the supporting bolt ons had to be 400whp

[Haltech]

my car blew at spike at 25 psi(scratch)(dunno)

mods on the engine.

ATP gt3076r1 turbo.
ATP catless down pipe.
ATP 3in turbo inlet.
CPE CAI.
CP-E EMS .
CP-E FMIC.
CP-E single turbo back exhaust.
CP-E motor mount.
HKS BOV.
Spec stage 3 +clucth.

car blew, I put it back to stock 100% and mazda fixed it for me! (alright)

now my car is slow!

Wow, so where did you set your boost pressure from? The CPE Standback or a Boost Controller.. 25psi with that monster turbo on there probably wasnt a pretty sight! Rods exit the block? Would of been real interesting if you were datalogging that run when she blew. Glad you got it warrantied though but im sure Mazda is keeping their eyes on this.

[Dr. D]

close... rod through oil pan

[acidbbg]

Wow, so where did you set your boost pressure from? The CPE Standback or a Boost Controller.. 25psi with that monster turbo on there probably wasnt a pretty sight! Rods exit the block? Would of been real interesting if you were datalogging that run when she blew. Glad you got it warrantied though but im sure Mazda is keeping their eyes on this.

i heard he was modulating boost with his foot. So no boost control + big turbo equals boom.

[2.0t03speed]

he said right there in the mod list he was running the cpe.....

[MS6mike]

i was not controling boost with the stanback, i had a manual boost controler closed all the way. it failed i think do to either vaccum leak or manual boost controler failure!


oh and the rod opened two holes one in the block, then it bounced back and opend the a hole in the oil pan!

[Captain KRM P5]

it's on the mazda website under mazdaspeed accessories

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/speedDisplayAccessoryDetail.action?endModelYear=20 06&speedAccessoryId=37&carLineCode=MZ6&startModelYear=2004&categoryId=3

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/speedDisplayAccessoryDetail.action?endModelYear=20 06&speedAccessoryId=34&carLineCode=MZ6&startModelYear=2004&categoryId=3

straight from the big M's mouth and not even close to being true! (jerkit)

[jcgemt2003]

(iagree) Yah...complete bullshit. We tried putting it on my car when we went to the stage 3 clutch and it was way off. Mazda's full of shit(stooges)

[MS6mike]

BTW guess i am also being the first to put a supercharger in G37! hope this does not happend in the G!

[PeterSellers]

really so your calling ken the owner of protege garage a liar?

Did I say he was a liar? No, I didn't. Stop being a jackass.

[PeterSellers]

hahah im sorry but that is a lie. also you will see that they say that all the flywheels are interchangeable between the turbo and non turbo 2.3l. that is also not true.

I don't understand this logic at all. Because Mazda made a mistake by saying flywheels are interchangeable, that somehow supports the argument that they are outright LYING about having forged crank and rods?

From what I've seen, the only evidence presented that the rods aren't forged are because they "look like cast rods", coming from just one person (which runs contrary to every piece of documentation I've seen about this motor). But then again, factory forged rods look like cast rods all the time. Factory forged rods don't necessarily look like the nice smoothly polished aftermarket rods you see on sale all the time.

[PeterSellers]

if they are forged then why are the speed 6's blowing left and right? they have the same motor. im telling you there not im pretty sure if ken who builds forged motors for the ms3's and ms6's says there not forged and there made out of the same shit thats in the regular fs-de im going to believe him.

Believe it or not, you can pop even the most sturdy built motors. Want to know how? Shitty tuning. The ECU's in our cars are notoriously finnicky and hard to tune. Add to that the fact that a lot of the speed 6's that blew had aftermarket turbos running increased boost, and it's not hard to see why some of them blew. Also, as far as I know, I haven't seen any ms3's that have spontaneously thrown a rod yet.

[redrocketz]

BTW guess i am also being the first to put a supercharger in G37! hope this does not happend in the G!

um there are quite a few G35's already supercharged and I'm sure there are a couple G37's already done. The engine is VERY similar to the 3.5 except now you have a throttle body on each side of the engine to worry about...

[MS6mike]

no there is not a supercharger in the market out! there is twin turbo setup orrady in one g37 but i want the SC. maybe protege garage can get it for me ?

[redrocketz]

no there is not a supercharger in the market out! there is twin turbo setup orrady in one g37 but i want the SC. maybe protege garage can get it for me ?

We do have an account with Stillen so it isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I'm sure they are developing something.

[MS6mike]

good deal!

[2.0t03speed]

Believe it or not, you can pop even the most sturdy built motors. Want to know how? Shitty tuning. The ECU's in our cars are notoriously finnicky and hard to tune. Add to that the fact that a lot of the speed 6's that blew had aftermarket turbos running increased boost, and it's not hard to see why some of them blew. Also, as far as I know, I haven't seen any ms3's that have spontaneously thrown a rod yet.


more motors have blown on the stock turbo then the aftermarket. and also if you see some ms6's are blowing with just light mods.

[2.0t03speed]

I don't understand this logic at all. Because Mazda made a mistake by saying flywheels are interchangeable, that somehow supports the argument that they are outright LYING about having forged crank and rods?

From what I've seen, the only evidence presented that the rods aren't forged are because they "look like cast rods", coming from just one person (which runs contrary to every piece of documentation I've seen about this motor). But then again, factory forged rods look like cast rods all the time. Factory forged rods don't necessarily look like the nice smoothly polished aftermarket rods you see on sale all the time.

comming from ken who builds these motors i can believe it. he has no reason to lie about it but like i said you can go on believing what you want.

[jcgemt2003]

Believe it or not, you can pop even the most sturdy built motors. Want to know how? Shitty tuning. The ECU's in our cars are notoriously finnicky and hard to tune. Add to that the fact that a lot of the speed 6's that blew had aftermarket turbos running increased boost, and it's not hard to see why some of them blew. Also, as far as I know, I haven't seen any ms3's that have spontaneously thrown a rod yet.

Thats because there are maybe all but one speed3 with a bigger turbo. Dude the freakn rods arent forged. Ive seen them and the pistons. You a little new here and you dont know a whole lot about the car. Take your motor out and pull the fukn rods. Then you can post about how mazda lied. Ive seen this motor apart more times than you can imagine. Ive seen the stock pistons and rods and have compared them to others and these rods and pistons in this car aint shit. SO UNTIL YOU PULL YOURS OUT AND PROVIDE PROOF THAT YOUR'S ARE DIFFERENT FORM EVERYONE ELSES THAN SHHHHH.....(wedge)

[2.0t03speed]

jeasus thank you jcg. i was beginning to believe that i was the only person that knew the truth haha.

[PeterSellers]

Thats because there are maybe all but one speed3 with a bigger turbo. Dude the freakn rods arent forged. Ive seen them and the pistons. You a little new here and you dont know a whole lot about the car. Take your motor out and pull the fukn rods. Then you can post about how mazda lied. Ive seen this motor apart more times than you can imagine. Ive seen the stock pistons and rods and have compared them to others and these rods and pistons in this car aint shit. SO UNTIL YOU PULL YOURS OUT AND PROVIDE PROOF THAT YOUR'S ARE DIFFERENT FORM EVERYONE ELSES THAN SHHHHH.....(wedge)

*I* don't have to prove anything, you guys are the ones making this claim, which is contrary to every piece of documentation on this motor. The onus of proof is on YOU. Do you know what factory forged rods are supposed to look like? I've seen pictures of our rods, and they look just like other FACTORY (not aftermarket) forged rods that I've seen.

Here is a pic of some forged factory rods from an AMC motor: http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/engine/154_0412_amc_v_8_engine/photo_03.html Notice that they don't look anything like the smooth polished aftermarket rods you see all the time, which is exactly the basis you are using to determine that they aren't forged.

By the way, you have no idea about how much I may or may not know about this car, so stop claiming otherwise.

[Captain KRM P5]

*I* don't have to prove anything, you guys are the ones making this claim, which is contrary to every piece of documentation on this motor. The onus of proof is on YOU. Do you know what factory forged rods are supposed to look like?

yes, we do. the mazdaspeed3 is not the first car to have them, nor is it the first factory or aftermarket rod we have seen nor is it the first car we have worked on. the only 'documentation' is a press release on mazda's website or marketing materials and then corroborated by mouthpiece industry magazines. we have already shown that mazda has had a propensity for 'errors' when it comes to things like that. no engineering documents have ever been provided by anyone.

i personally have never said the car does not have a forged crank. it definetely does.

i've been through this enough. i have sent the rods out for inspection to several machine shops and been told they are not forged. to be totally frank, i don't give a rat's ass if people believe or don't believe it. i don't need to use it as a tactic to sell a forged motor when the stock ones blow up so well on thier own. people are entitled to believe whatever they want, i really could care less. i've taken these engines apart, i've had the parts inspected and tested, i've physically tested parts that other seemingly reputable sources claim will work on these engines and clearly do not. i have zero personal or professional need to do anything outside of that to prove my competency to any fan boy on an internet forum, and that is where - love me or hate me - the issue dies with me.

enjoy your pissing match, ladies and gentlemen.

[PeterSellers]

yes, we do. the mazdaspeed3 is not the first car to have them, nor is it the first factory or aftermarket rod we have seen nor is it the first car we have worked on. the only 'documentation' is a press release on mazda's website or marketing materials and then corroborated by mouthpiece industry magazines. we have already shown that mazda has had a propensity for 'errors' when it comes to things like that. no engineering documents have ever been provided by anyone.

i personally have never said the car does not have a forged crank. it definetely does.

i've been through this enough. i have sent the rods out for inspection to several machine shops and been told they are not forged. to be totally frank, i don't give a rat's ass if people believe or don't believe it. i don't need to use it as a tactic to sell a forged motor when the stock ones blow up so well on thier own. people are entitled to believe whatever they want, i really could care less. i've taken these engines apart, i've had the parts inspected and tested, i've physically tested parts that other seemingly reputable sources claim will work on these engines and clearly do not. i have zero personal or professional need to do anything outside of that to prove my competency to any fan boy on an internet forum, and that is where - love me or hate me - the issue dies with me.

enjoy your pissing match, ladies and gentlemen.

Let's get something straight. I never accused anyone of intentionally lying about the rod issue (as if you are using it to sell more built motors). Don't be so defensive. The only thing that has been circulating around has been a "he said she said" type of high-schoolish thing that just reeks of being a false rumor. You can't blame me for being skeptical of that, but if that makes me a "fan boy" then so be it (headshake.

If you have a spare stock rod lying around, would you mind taking a large picture of it and posting it? Any evidence to substantiate what is now just a rumor would be appreciated, since I'm still very skeptical.

[Captain KRM P5]

there has never been "countless forms of documentation", just random people and PR statements. relying blindly on that when mazda has stated (as i linked above) wrong information before, qualifies as being a fan boy in my opinion. this is not singling you out either, you just had the misfortune of being the post i clicked 'quote' on.

i have posted pics on this forum, i will try and find the link. when i do, i will edit this post with it. the rod has casting marks and casting imprints on it as well. it came from a new, uninstalled, speed6 specific shortblock ordered straight from mazda. i can produce part numbers and receipts to this effect as well.

edit :: found it; http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3382264&postcount=92

[2.0t03speed]

lol wow thats not that much bigger then the fs-de internals haha

[03.5MSP]

lol wow thats not that much bigger then the fs-de internals haha

He he, yeah now I don't feel so bad anymore.

[PeterSellers]

there has never been "countless forms of documentation", just random people and PR statements. relying blindly on that when mazda has stated (as i linked above) wrong information before, qualifies as being a fan boy in my opinion.

Great, now you know exactly what I'm talking about when I hear people regurgitating what you've said about the rods not being forged, without doing any due diligence on their part. I wouldn't classify them as being PG "fan boys" though, as they would be according to your definition. We just disagree on that point.

Thanks for posting the picture. I have seen other factory forged rods that do look like that, so by the pic alone it doesn't say much to me. They are quite thin though, which is troublesome. I also find it hard to believe that Mazda would put such a thin rod that was NOT also forged into a motor running more than a full bar of boost.

[laloosh]

i dunno, i also find it wierd how people are making over 350 wtq and not snapping these things like tooth pics but hey whatever(lick)

[Raynman]

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2230297

Are those casting marks running up and down the length of the rod?

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2230000-2230999/2230297_12_full.jpg

[MS6mike]

if the engine is forged from factory how come my motor blew?

[PeterSellers]

if the engine is forged from factory how come my motor blew?

Is that a joke? You said you spiked 25 psi, and were running a big turbo. I'm guessing it wasn't tuned properly either, since we don't yet have a good tuning solution.

[JDM Sam]

The people who knew, all predicted this type of thread would come. When I saw the MZR DISI cut out at a Mazda event, I already knew.

[MS6mike]

Is that a joke? You said you spiked 25 psi, and were running a big turbo. I'm guessing it wasn't tuned properly either, since we don't yet have a good tuning solution.

yes and even with the spike it was not over 400whp!! evos go 600WHP no problem!(inout)

[laloosh]

evos have real tunning solutions, something that we have yet to see