I'm calling out the guy that claims to have installed a Walbro in an MS6...

[ATE BALLER]

You are a sack of camel turds. Why in f*ck would you claim to do something you didn't with a part that doesn't even fit? Your statements caused several people to spend their hard-earned money for a Walbro 255 pump with part number GSS-341 (as you stated publically to have successfully used to directly relaced the stock in-tank fuel pump). You also confirmed this via PM convesations with other members. In addition, you directed other members to drop their rear differential and axel to drop the gas tank in order to perform the task. This is absolutely not required at all if you use the Mazda tool, which you also claimed to have borrowed from Mazda. Whoosh and I and a handful of others threw together the money to purchase this tool ($160.00 + shipping around), to perform this task, only to find out the pump you specified won't fit. You sir are a lier. I find this down-right unexceptable. Fortunately, the rest of us are working out these detailes to ACTUALLY replace the stock in-tank fuel pump with a Walbro 255 that WILL fit, and I think the Mazda tool to do this will be up for rent after the original investors are done with it. And, guess what, the culpret that misled all of us will be 100% barred from rental. This thread will be updated with REAL information once one is actually operational in the tank of a Mazdaspeed 6.

Rant over.

[VRMS6]

wow...pwned???

[ATE BALLER]

Right now, it looks like there should be a direct replacement that won't even require a wire/harness kit at all. I'm gonna have the tool next and see if I can't somehow make this one work, then I'm shipping it to someone who has a variety of pumps on-hand. I'm fairly confident I can fab it up to work properly, but my point is no one else should have to. So, if everything works out, I'll be giving a review, then soon after, we should know which one is will fit properly. Then, within a few weeks or so there will probably be a tool for rent.

[chriscecc914]

im just curious as to why you would upgrade the in-tank pump until you have upgraded the cam driven pump? And if you have upgraded the cam driven pump, how do you know you will need the walbro until you get to a much higher power level. Not shooting anything down im just curious.

[whooosh]

im just curious as to why you would upgrade the in-tank pump until you have upgraded the cam driven pump? And if you have upgraded the cam driven pump, how do you know you will need the walbro until you get to a much higher power level. Not shooting anything down im just curious.

I think its smart to start in the tank and then replace the cam pump
what solid info does anyone have that either pump will be "the one" to fix the MZR's fuel delivery woes?

the same question could be asked of you chris, why did you put a GT turbo on your car and have the stock intercooler?
the flow of that turbo exceeds your fuel and the cooling efficiency of the TMIC

[whooosh]

You are a sack of camel turds. Why in f*ck would you claim to do something you didn't with a part that doesn't even fit? Your statements caused several people to spend their hard-earned money for a Walbro 255 pump with part number GSS-341 (as you stated publically to have successfully used to directly relaced the stock in-tank fuel pump). You also confirmed this via PM convesations with other members. In addition, you directed other members to drop their rear differential and axel to drop the gas tank in order to perform the task. This is absolutely not required at all if you use the Mazda tool, which you also claimed to have borrowed from Mazda. Whoosh and I and a handful of others threw together the money to purchase this tool ($160.00 + shipping around), to perform this task, only to find out the pump you specified won't fit. You sir are a lier. I find this down-right unexceptable. Fortunately, the rest of us are working out these detailes to ACTUALLY replace the stock in-tank fuel pump with a Walbro 255 that WILL fit, and I think the Mazda tool to do this will be up for rent after the original investors are done with it. And, guess what, the culpret that misled all of us will be 100% barred from rental. This thread will be updated with REAL information once one is actually operational in the tank of a Mazdaspeed 6.

Rant over.

BoostedSpd6 is his user name

[ATE BALLER]

im just curious as to why you would upgrade the in-tank pump until you have upgraded the cam driven pump? And if you have upgraded the cam driven pump, how do you know you will need the walbro until you get to a much higher power level. Not shooting anything down im just curious.

My reasoning is this...

Right now, we DO know that the motor is being starved of fuel, causing the fuel cut (thank god the Mazda engineers put in that safe gaurd).

We DO know that the cam-driven fuel pump is currently unable to provide enough fuel.

We DON'T know if this is because the cam-driven pump is being outworked, starved by the in-tank fuel pump, or both.

We DON'T know how much more fuel the upgaded cam-driven fuel pump is able to deliver with the stock in-tank fuel pump.

We DO know what will happen if for any reason the upgraded cam-driven fuel pump cannot deliver enough fuel to the motor even for just an instant (either fuel cut or kaboom).

We DO know that upgrading the in-tank pump will ONLY supply the cam-driven fuel pump with more fuel.

We DO know that we have a return styled system, so any extra fuel will be returned to the tank.

We DO know that if the cam-driven fuel pump is capable of flowing a little more fuel, this will give it the room to.

Basically, I feel this to be an extra precaution to take that will likely at least further my capabilities when I get around to upgrading the cam-driven fuel pump.


BoostedSpd6 is his user name

Thanks. I tried to find the threads, but they're burried somewhere. I would certainly love to hear his response though.

[durban]

First off, its VERY doubtful he'll come and defend himself. After reading several of his previous posts, I get the feeling that he is just making this shit up as he goes. I have met people just like him, and for some reason, they get off on lying about even the most stupid of things. Hopefully some mod or admin can and will ban this asshole so the community doesn't get sidetracked on goose chases.
I VOTE FOR BAN!!!!!!!!!!

[fourthmeal]

ATE BALLER:

If you want to find all posts by a member, just use the SEARCH feature and type their name in on the right side. Then hit Search below.


Not defending anybody as I don't know the whole story, but maybe give the guy a chance for rebuttal if there is any to be made?

I can think of a lot of other people who are ban-worthy...

[B1GHAM]

I feel bad that you guys were lied to about the ability to upgrade the tank to a walbro fuel pump....

HOWEVER, why would you believe ONE PERSON who posted in a forum about the ability to upgrade something without any REAL proof?

You guys believed him, took a chance and were burned... hes a shithead if he did infact lie, but you should put a little less faith in people posting on the internet and took the time to do a little personal digging.


Hopefully, you guys will get together and solve the mystery for every other speed 6 owner. a howto would be great (with pictures!).

[ATE BALLER]

I wasn't sure what his name was when I made the post, so I had trouble searching. Here is where it all started...

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123678099&page=3

Yes, I was nieve to believe him, but upgrading in-tank fuel pumps is deffinately not uncommon. I've done it on two of my past vehicles myself, one because I had to and the other to make more power. This car has been out for about two years now, and it's only a matter of time before that sort of thing starts to happen. I thought it would be safe to assume someone had tried it. He even goes as far as saying he's about to do a write up. Bad form.

Like I said though, my rant is over. I just want others in the community to know not to trust what this guy says (or to at least seek other advise), and to replace WRONG information with RIGHT information.

[Raynman]

Wow. Just wow. Subbin'.

[NCZ13]

yeah....

subbing.

[Dragon Queen]

somebody got PWN'D!!!!

I commend you guys for being pioneers, and risking your warranty for the good of the community.

We need more members like ATE BALLER on this forum then we could actually see some worthwhile information once in awhile.

[CX-7owner]

exactly no one else had done this at the point i decided to and i had no info to go off of when i did my in tank pump replacement so mine was custom fabricated to work. i dont understand why ur calling me out on this ive said from the begining that it was a custom job, it didnt just fit right in.. i dropped the tank to make it easier for myslef and i had no info to go off of at that point either... thats all im saying ive told whoosh in a pm my feelings towards this situation.. u guys didnt even ask me how i got it to fit before u started saying i was bullshitting everyone and throwing up posts saying that i didnt rlly install one..its modified it fits and its working..some of us like to do alittle extra work to make things fit. next time u decide to call me out on something maybe u should ask me hey man i couldnt get this to fit(even though u say u can fabricate it to work which is what i did) before u go calling me out saying that its impossible and itll never work so i must be lying.
Wow.

[BoostedSpd6]

Right now, it looks like there should be a direct replacement that won't even require a wire/harness kit at all. I'm gonna have the tool next and see if I can't somehow make this one work, then I'm shipping it to someone who has a variety of pumps on-hand. I'm fairly confident I can fab it up to work properly, but my point is no one else should have to. So, if everything works out, I'll be giving a review, then soon after, we should know which one is will fit properly. Then, within a few weeks or so there will probably be a tool for rent.

exactly no one else had done this at the point i decided to and i had no info to go off of when i did my in tank pump replacement so mine was custom fabricated to work. i dont understand why ur calling me out on this ive said from the begining that it was a custom job, it didnt just fit right in.. i dropped the tank to make it easier for myslef and i had no info to go off of at that point either... thats all im saying ive told whoosh in a pm my feelings towards this situation.. u guys didnt even ask me how i got it to fit before u started saying i was bullshitting everyone and throwing up posts saying that i didnt rlly install one..its modified it fits and its working..some of us like to do alittle extra work to make things fit. next time u decide to call me out on something maybe u should ask me hey man i couldnt get this to fit(even though u say u can fabricate it to work which is what i did) before u go calling me out saying that its impossible and itll never work so i must be lying.

[whooosh]

exactly no one else had done this at the point i decided to and i had no info to go off of when i did my in tank pump replacement so mine was custom fabricated to work. i dont understand why ur calling me out on this ive said from the begining that it was a custom job, it didnt just fit right in.. i dropped the tank to make it easier for myslef and i had no info to go off of at that point either... thats all im saying ive told whoosh in a pm my feelings towards this situation.. u guys didnt even ask me how i got it to fit before u started saying i was bullshitting everyone and throwing up posts saying that i didnt rlly install one..its modified it fits and its working..some of us like to do alittle extra work to make things fit. next time u decide to call me out on something maybe u should ask me hey man i couldnt get this to fit(even though u say u can fabricate it to work which is what i did) before u go calling me out saying that its impossible and itll never work so i must be lying.

I'm sorry this is still bull...I'm pulling up my pant legs because its so deep

of course you can make things fit...you can make most anything work within reason

your posts on the Walbro are sketchy at best and you answered all of my PM's with one word or very short answers not explaining anything.

Unless you ditched the entire fuel pump sleeve that also holds the fuel pressure regulator, YOU DID NOT USE THE GSS-341
the GSS-341 has the pick-up and feed on opposite sides of the pump when looking top to bottom
the OEM pump has them on the same side as does the GSS-342
If you just ever so slightly enlarge the sleeve where the OEM pump slides in the housing, the GSS-342 will theoretically work since
you mentioned about cutting or trimming some rubber....sorry, no rubber isolator, no rubber bottom pad either. All plastic except a rubber o-ring that snaps the pump into the housing

go ahead and post some pics or useful info
go ahead and correct my findings after I bought a GSS-341 and paid the initial 162.50 for the Mazda specific tool to remove the tank retaining ring and show me how stupid I am and how smart you are to get this pump to work
I'll eat crow when and if that happens.....

[dadasracecar]

I feel bad that you guys were lied to about the ability to upgrade the tank to a walbro fuel pump....

HOWEVER, why would you believe ONE PERSON who posted in a forum about the ability to upgrade something without any REAL proof?

You guys believed him, took a chance and were burned... hes a shithead if he did infact lie, but you should put a little less faith in people posting on the internet and took the time to do a little personal digging.


If by digging you mean remove the stock pump and try to install the pump that buttholespd6 indicate, then yea, okay. You never know anything until you try it. There were no pix of the in take system before whoosh posted them and short of buying the $180 system from Mazda and trying out the $100 pump in it to see, that seems like a pretty expensive way to go.
We depend on the people in the forums to post real information. I will never help that jackass now.

[Killer]

exactly no one else had done this at the point i decided to and i had no info to go off of when i did my in tank pump replacement so mine was custom fabricated to work. i dont understand why ur calling me out on this ive said from the begining that it was a custom job, it didnt just fit right in.. i dropped the tank to make it easier for myslef and i had no info to go off of at that point either... thats all im saying ive told whoosh in a pm my feelings towards this situation.. u guys didnt even ask me how i got it to fit before u started saying i was bullshitting everyone and throwing up posts saying that i didnt rlly install one..its modified it fits and its working..some of us like to do alittle extra work to make things fit. next time u decide to call me out on something maybe u should ask me hey man i couldnt get this to fit(even though u say u can fabricate it to work which is what i did) before u go calling me out saying that its impossible and itll never work so i must be lying.

Pics?

[crashkelly]

wow, very lame...

[ATE BALLER]

AH HA HA HA HA!!!!! SUCCESS!!! I am officially the first person to have successfully installed a Walbro into the speed 6! Well, unless that Boostedspd6 guy provides evidence, but I doubt that will happen.

First off, to get it to slide in there, I simply chamfered the edges of the step inside the sleeve, and then shot a heat gun in there to expand the plastic. But, that brings me to my first problem. Once you get it heated up enough to slide it in there, you only have so much time to get the pump in there before it becomes too tight, and since the plastic is softer at that point, it wants to bond to the pump. It's kind of a one-time shot to slide it in there perfectly lined up. I got my pump about an 1/8 of an inch from all the way, then I had to stop pushing to twist it a little to line it up. Once I got it lined up, it was then too late to push it in any more.

Since the nozzles weren't meeting up properly, fuel was not getting from the pump to the resevoir (the whole sleeve is a resevoir). It was instead coming out of the hole in the top of the sleeve where the electrical connector comes through. I needed to seal that entire portion, so I went to autozone and got a stick of plastic fuel tank crack filler and a dual mixture plastic welding agent. I filled the opening on top of the sleeve with the filler, then I "welded" two flat plastic shims over it all with a hole cut for the wires to poke through. It seems like overkill, but I read that the stock fuel pump supplies 61-65psi to the cam-driven one and this one is bigger, so I figured this would insure no pressure leaks.

The next immediate issue was that since I used the 341, the bottom cap would not fit back on. That didn't seem like too big of an issue at the time because I had a filter in the kit, plus the stock filter was f'n nasty. Well, after I put the Walbro filter on, I immediately realized that I had a height issue. Since I couldn't get the Walbro to budge inwards or outwards from the sleeve, when I would clip it down into the bucket, the opening inside the filter was being pushed down into the bottom of the bucket, literally choking the pump. I jogged it around in my head for a while until I figured out the best way I could approach this. I descided to leave off the piece that clips the sleeve to the bucket. I positioned the sleeve against the side of the bucket where I wanted it and drilled some holes to accomodate a few zip ties. I also drilled a few larger holes around the sides of the bucket and a couple on the bottom. I zip tied it elevated about 1" from the bottom. This left just enough room for the top portion of the assembly to slide down enough to tighten down the retaining ring.

So, I got it put back in (for the 12th time), turned the key, let it prime and started it. It fired right up! But, then soon died. FUCK! Took it back out (AGAIN), and through inspecting the assembly discovered that the valve for the pressure regulator had been blown out of it's seat, which is built onto the sleeve. Until then, I had thought it was sealed in there. I tinkered with it at the beggining of this whole thing, and it wouldn't move, so I didn't think anything about it. Well, as it turns out, the bottom cap for the sleeve has a portion attached to it that clips over and retains the valve in it's seat. So, I cut that fucker off the bottom cap, and put it all back together (AGAIN).

Finally, I got it started, and it stayed started! I let it idle for about 5 minutes and shut it off. I did that about four times before taking it for a spin. I intentionally didn't disconnect the battery because I didn't want any false interpretations of how it affected the vehicle. Yeah, I know it was a little dangerous, but every time I touched the electrical connector, the retaining ring was sealed down, and any time the gas tank was open, the electrical connector was wrapped up in a towell. So, I don't want to hear it. As for how it changed things, all tip-ins from all the rpm ranges I tried were much smoother and without that slight hesitation it used to have. It's difficult to explain, but it seems more consistant and responsive, like it's ready to go whenever you step on it. I have a very loud exhaust, and my car used to gurgle and pop alot, especially around 2800-3200rpm. It doesn't at all any more. As far as fixing the fuel cut, no such luck, although, it was 36*F during my post-intallation evaluation, as oposed to 76*F during my pre-installation evaluation. It did, however push it back a little more. I also removed my ATP "Boost Cut Killer" piece of junk between runs, and guess what, removing it actually made it more difficult to produce the fuel cut! All in all, I wish it wouldn't have been such a pain in the ass, but I'm glad I did it.

Advice to those who attempt this...
1. Stuff a corner of a paper towell in the female acceptor inside the sleeve before doing any dremeling or boreing in there. The whole sleeve is a resevoir with no filter between it and the CDFP AFAIK, so you don't want any particles or debris to get in there.
2. Dremel the step inside the sleeve down to the acceptor for the pump nozzel, but be careful not to take off too much material. If you compremise the resevoir, it might never be made to work properly.
3. There is a small white sleeve and a rubber ring that both need to be transfered from the nozzel on the stock fuel pump to the Walbro fuel pump.
4. Use a heat gun to expand the sleeve, but don't hold the heat still. It will melt the plastic. Make sure you have the pump lined up before jamming it in there. You only have one shot at it if you're doing it this way, and it is permanent once the plastic cools (about 5-7 seconds after heating). If you don't get it all the way in, you can complete the process as I had to as long as it's kinda close and it's lined up.
5. If you're using the Walbro filter, remember to remove the portion of the sleeve's bottom cap to retain the pressure regulator valve.

If anybody is giving this a try and runs into a snag, let me know. I can try to walk through it.

[Raynman]

Good job, ATE Baller. Great write up.

[RoadRage]

Pics?



yep pics = proof

no pics no proof and that just makes us think you are a liar (stfu)

thanks ATE i plan on doing this in the spring useing your write up

[Maxx Mazda]

What a douchebag...

[BoostedSpd6]

yep pics = proof

no pics no proof and that just makes us think you are a liar (stfu)

thanks ATE i plan on doing this in the spring useing your write up

if i did it myslef i would have the pics.. since i didnt do it myself i dont have very many.. remember when me and vinnie did this mod NO ONE ELSE had done it yet, i had no other information but to get it working, and make it work..if its such a big deal meet me on race day at the track. i plan having the whole motor rebuilt and getting the big 3076R, putting on some new axles and rebuilding the tranny..ill be in the 12's where will you be? bring that GSX

[dadasracecar]

Wow, that's like 10 grand you just talked about...

[jcgemt2003]

.....like it was nothing....and to say youll be in the 12s after 10 G's is depressing.

[ATE BALLER]

Yeah, didn't someone dip into the 12.9s with just an intake and exhaust on the other forum?

Boostedspd6, if you can find someone in the area to meet up with you to verify it, go right ahead. All they have to do is listen to your back seat when you start the car. If they can hear a whining sound for about 3 seconds before you crank it, then it is verified. The stock pump is very quiet, whereas the Walbro is pretty damned loud. If someone that is credible to this forum can honestly vouch for you, I'll give you a public appology for saying that you don't have a Walbro in your car. But until then, I'm gonna call BS. Either way you look at it, you lied, whether it's actually in there or not. YOU origionally said that YOU did it, and that YOU dropped the tank, and that YOU borrowed a tool from Mazda, and that YOU modified it to work right, and that YOU were going to do a write up all about how YOU got it to work. Now you are saying that it was done at a shop. A shop wouldn't have done what I had to go through to put a Walbro in the tank. They would have made you pay for a replacement bucket which costs $185.00. Then they would have charged you an ass-ton of money to modify the bucket to accept the Walbro. You're looking at around at least $300.00 worth of work without the cost of the pump or bucket. If you honestly spent that much money to get a Walbro in there, then I feel even more sorry for you. Either way, YOU are a liar and YOU have lost some credibility here.

Update: Car is still running great. I can only get the fuel cut to occur at/after around 6000 rpm, and that's at about 40*F AND after removing my ATP "Boost Cut Killer". Next on my list of things to do is a CDFP. Then, I believe, I'll have the most fuel available to the motor on an MS6 or MS3 (on this side of the world at least). Cheers!

[BoostedSpd6]

.....like it was nothing....and to say youll be in the 12s after 10 G's is depressing.


it wont be 10 grand maybe about 6,500 i have lots of hook-ups.. the only thing im going to have to buy at cost is the pistons rods and the turbo kit and the cam driven pump, but i can send mine back in for a core charge.. everything else i can get done for a cheaper price.

priced out some axles for the car at about $750....the rebuilt trans about $950 to $1000 including the clutch-shop guy owes me a favor since i brang him some good business on exhausts. and im not doing it till the spring time so prices should drop on the turbo kit by then hopefully.

i hit 13.29 with a 1.7 60 foot with my intake exhaust and the cp-e FMIC, MBC set at 17psi with the walbro....time slip is posted on the 1/4 mile thread i believe.. but i want more and i wanna be the fastest or second fastest behind chris, i dont wanna end up like mike.

[MS6mike]

Yeah, didn't someone dip into the 12.9s with just an intake and exhaust on the other forum?

Boostedspd6, if you can find someone in the area to meet up with you to verify it, go right ahead. All they have to do is listen to your back seat when you start the car. If they can hear a whining sound for about 3 seconds before you crank it, then it is verified. The stock pump is very quiet, whereas the Walbro is pretty damned loud. If someone that is credible to this forum can honestly vouch for you, I'll give you a public appology for saying that you don't have a Walbro in your car. But until then, I'm gonna call BS. Either way you look at it, you lied, whether it's actually in there or not. YOU origionally said that YOU did it, and that YOU dropped the tank, and that YOU borrowed a tool from Mazda, and that YOU modified it to work right, and that YOU were going to do a write up all about how YOU got it to work. Now you are saying that it was done at a shop. A shop wouldn't have done what I had to go through to put a Walbro in the tank. They would have made you pay for a replacement bucket which costs $185.00. Then they would have charged you an ass-ton of money to modify the bucket to accept the Walbro. You're looking at around at least $300.00 worth of work without the cost of the pump or bucket. If you honestly spent that much money to get a Walbro in there, then I feel even more sorry for you. Either way, YOU are a liar and YOU have lost some credibility here.

Update: Car is still running great. I can only get the fuel cut to occur at/after around 6000 rpm, and that's at about 40*F AND after removing my ATP "Boost Cut Killer". Next on my list of things to do is a CDFP. Then, I believe, I'll have the most fuel available to the motor on an MS6 or MS3 (on this side of the world at least). Cheers!

that was me 12.8 with TBE CAI and EMS

[BoostedSpd6]

i think chris has a good shot for low 12's once hes up and running good.. thats what i wanna shot for if not lower..

[jcgemt2003]

I also have a couple of 12.8s, 12.9s and just as soon as I have the new cam driven fuel pump and turbo manifold I will be in the mid to low 12's.

[chriscecc914]

i think chris has a good shot for low 12's once hes up and running good.. thats what i wanna shot for if not lower..

if your talking about me i am planning on getting 11's and then when i go with a fully built drivetrain ill be going for 10's. This is if no other problems arise as far as the computer and fuel flow go. Ive seen a few cars do high 10's with the 3076r and if its not possible there will be a turbo upgrade.

[MS6mike]

well you will get the power,just worry about the rest of the car! i can see the car wheels falling off with those super sayayin powers!

[DennisW]

AH HA HA HA HA!!!!! SUCCESS!!! I am officially the first person to have successfully installed a Walbro into the speed 6! Well, unless that Boostedspd6 guy provides evidence, but I doubt that will happen.

First off, to get it to slide in there, I simply chamfered the edges of the step inside the sleeve, and then shot a heat gun in there to expand the plastic. But, that brings me to my first problem. Once you get it heated up enough to slide it in there, you only have so much time to get the pump in there before it becomes too tight, and since the plastic is softer at that point, it wants to bond to the pump. It's kind of a one-time shot to slide it in there perfectly lined up. I got my pump about an 1/8 of an inch from all the way, then I had to stop pushing to twist it a little to line it up. Once I got it lined up, it was then too late to push it in any more.

Since the nozzles weren't meeting up properly, fuel was not getting from the pump to the resevoir (the whole sleeve is a resevoir). It was instead coming out of the hole in the top of the sleeve where the electrical connector comes through. I needed to seal that entire portion, so I went to autozone and got a stick of plastic fuel tank crack filler and a dual mixture plastic welding agent. I filled the opening on top of the sleeve with the filler, then I "welded" two flat plastic shims over it all with a hole cut for the wires to poke through. It seems like overkill, but I read that the stock fuel pump supplies 61-65psi to the cam-driven one and this one is bigger, so I figured this would insure no pressure leaks.

The next immediate issue was that since I used the 341, the bottom cap would not fit back on. That didn't seem like too big of an issue at the time because I had a filter in the kit, plus the stock filter was f'n nasty. Well, after I put the Walbro filter on, I immediately realized that I had a height issue. Since I couldn't get the Walbro to budge inwards or outwards from the sleeve, when I would clip it down into the bucket, the opening inside the filter was being pushed down into the bottom of the bucket, literally choking the pump. I jogged it around in my head for a while until I figured out the best way I could approach this. I descided to leave off the piece that clips the sleeve to the bucket. I positioned the sleeve against the side of the bucket where I wanted it and drilled some holes to accomodate a few zip ties. I also drilled a few larger holes around the sides of the bucket and a couple on the bottom. I zip tied it elevated about 1" from the bottom. This left just enough room for the top portion of the assembly to slide down enough to tighten down the retaining ring.

So, I got it put back in (for the 12th time), turned the key, let it prime and started it. It fired right up! But, then soon died. FUCK! Took it back out (AGAIN), and through inspecting the assembly discovered that the valve for the pressure regulator had been blown out of it's seat, which is built onto the sleeve. Until then, I had thought it was sealed in there. I tinkered with it at the beggining of this whole thing, and it wouldn't move, so I didn't think anything about it. Well, as it turns out, the bottom cap for the sleeve has a portion attached to it that clips over and retains the valve in it's seat. So, I cut that fucker off the bottom cap, and put it all back together (AGAIN).

Finally, I got it started, and it stayed started! I let it idle for about 5 minutes and shut it off. I did that about four times before taking it for a spin. I intentionally didn't disconnect the battery because I didn't want any false interpretations of how it affected the vehicle. Yeah, I know it was a little dangerous, but every time I touched the electrical connector, the retaining ring was sealed down, and any time the gas tank was open, the electrical connector was wrapped up in a towell. So, I don't want to hear it. As for how it changed things, all tip-ins from all the rpm ranges I tried were much smoother and without that slight hesitation it used to have. It's difficult to explain, but it seems more consistant and responsive, like it's ready to go whenever you step on it. I have a very loud exhaust, and my car used to gurgle and pop alot, especially around 2800-3200rpm. It doesn't at all any more. As far as fixing the fuel cut, no such luck, although, it was 36*F during my post-intallation evaluation, as oposed to 76*F during my pre-installation evaluation. It did, however push it back a little more. I also removed my ATP "Boost Cut Killer" piece of junk between runs, and guess what, removing it actually made it more difficult to produce the fuel cut! All in all, I wish it wouldn't have been such a pain in the ass, but I'm glad I did it.

Advice to those who attempt this...
1. Stuff a corner of a paper towell in the female acceptor inside the sleeve before doing any dremeling or boreing in there. The whole sleeve is a resevoir with no filter between it and the CDFP AFAIK, so you don't want any particles or debris to get in there.
2. Dremel the step inside the sleeve down to the acceptor for the pump nozzel, but be careful not to take off too much material. If you compremise the resevoir, it might never be made to work properly.
3. There is a small white sleeve and a rubber ring that both need to be transfered from the nozzel on the stock fuel pump to the Walbro fuel pump.
4. Use a heat gun to expand the sleeve, but don't hold the heat still. It will melt the plastic. Make sure you have the pump lined up before jamming it in there. You only have one shot at it if you're doing it this way, and it is permanent once the plastic cools (about 5-7 seconds after heating). If you don't get it all the way in, you can complete the process as I had to as long as it's kinda close and it's lined up.
5. If you're using the Walbro filter, remember to remove the portion of the sleeve's bottom cap to retain the pressure regulator valve.

If anybody is giving this a try and runs into a snag, let me know. I can try to walk through it.

You might try a little non-stick cooking spray like PAM on the pump body as you're pushing it into the heated plastic. That should keep the pump from sticking to the housing as it cools, and it won't hurt either the pump or the plastic housing.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

pam is a very good idea +1. 12's..7 grand? with hookups? that is depressing lol. i think you need some track time bro!

[BoostedSpd6]

pam is a very good idea +1. 12's..7 grand? with hookups? that is depressing lol. i think you need some track time bro!


well nobody knows what the rest of the car can handle..i was just shooting the low 12's number out there.. seeing what chris has said who knows maybe ill be in the 11's or 10's, but thats not till the spring.. and ill admit id like to see more track time just dont have the time every week to get up there or i would believe me, epping NH is the closest one and its 2 hours from me. 13.29 and only my second time ever at the track is pretty good for a rookie i think haha..

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

you should be able to hit low 12's, with CAI TBE EMS CDFP

like $3000...including PnP adapter and a tune ;)

[BoostedSpd6]

you should be able to hit low 12's, with CAI TBE EMS CDFP

like $3000...including PnP adapter and a tune ;)


well yeah.. im just going to build the drivetrain as well as the motor..so i may hopefully not break alot of stuff..but im sure ill break something..

[Roywhitep5]

come on guys, you're starting to sound like camaro owners

[ATE BALLER]

come on guys, you're starting to sound like camaro owners

ROFL! I'd say worse...Mustang owners, lol!

A little update. I may have drilled too many holes in the bucket. Fuel sloshes out under heavy G's (even straight line accelleration). This happened in my evo, so I have two remedies, one of which will be implied by the end of this week. First, I'm reopening the tank to put in a couple baffels; one curved one behind the bucket, and one short one on the driver's side of the hump in the middle of the tank. I'm hoping this will be enough to prevent the bucket from draining under heavy accelleration and cornering. There's no exact science to doing this, but the basic idea is to slow the fuel's movement through the tank down enough to keep the pump from being starved. Another thing i thought about doing was to reinstall the stock pump in the back of the tank, wire it up, and plumb it to continuously be dumping fuel into the bucket. I'm a little uneasy about having spliced wires in my fuel tank though. The second thing I'm going to deffinately do is change out my hardlines with steel braided lines, and add a surge tank up in the engine bay. That way, if the pump does ever get starved under load, the engine will never know. Then I can clear out the air in the surge tank every so often if needed. Fun times.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

ROFL! I'd say worse...Mustang owners, lol!

A little update. I may have drilled too many holes in the bucket. Fuel sloshes out under heavy G's (even straight line accelleration). This happened in my evo, so I have two remedies, one of which will be implied by the end of this week. First, I'm reopening the tank to put in a couple baffels; one curved one behind the bucket, and one short one on the driver's side of the hump in the middle of the tank. I'm hoping this will be enough to prevent the bucket from draining under heavy accelleration and cornering. There's no exact science to doing this, but the basic idea is to slow the fuel's movement through the tank down enough to keep the pump from being starved. Another thing i thought about doing was to reinstall the stock pump in the back of the tank, wire it up, and plumb it to continuously be dumping fuel into the bucket. I'm a little uneasy about having spliced wires in my fuel tank though. The second thing I'm going to deffinately do is change out my hardlines with steel braided lines, and add a surge tank up in the engine bay. That way, if the pump does ever get starved under load, the engine will never know. Then I can clear out the air in the surge tank every so often if needed. Fun times.

damnit...i am a mustang owner lol (hand)

[ATE BALLER]

That's OK. We'll let it slide, lol.

[djquik1]

I think that BoostedSpd6 is a douche and should be banned.I heard about this on another forum.If anyone needs some help on what may work or not,just ask me.I work for Mazda and have one of the most modded NA 6's in the USA.

[ATE BALLER]

Well, mine's up and running better than ever. No problems have arisen from the extra pressure and flow, unless you consider not getting fuel cut a problem, lol.

[djquik1]

that's good to hear.Did you and Whoosh do a write up on this?

[ForceFed]

Ate..I hate to say it..but even if this guy lied..you have hacked and modded so much shit just to get this thing in..it's a wonder it works at all.

And now, you have to go back in and make baffles.....I can see where this is gonna go.

I am really interested to see how long this pump will hold up and be reliable.

It sounds like you have parts just"wedged: together..and you have zip ties holding filters on in the tank...Your kidding right?

What is the Speed6...about a $25K car...and yor trusting Zip ties....?

Yup..you are definately more intelligent than that Boostd6..for sure.

And I am sorry..Getting a fuel pump to work isnt rocket science.
Couldn't you have saved your self a ton of work by making a new pickup tube assembly and adding a high flow "frame mount " style pump and called it a day. At least then it could have been put back to stock.

[ATE BALLER]

Ate..I hate to say it..but even if this guy lied..you have hacked and modded so much shit just to get this thing in..it's a wonder it works at all.

And now, you have to go back in and make baffles.....I can see where this is gonna go.

I am really interested to see how long this pump will hold up and be reliable.

It sounds like you have parts just"wedged: together..and you have zip ties holding filters on in the tank...Your kidding right?

What is the Speed6...about a $25K car...and yor trusting Zip ties....?

Yup..you are definately more intelligent than that Boostd6..for sure.

And I am sorry..Getting a fuel pump to work isnt rocket science.
Couldn't you have saved your self a ton of work by making a new pickup tube assembly and adding a high flow "frame mount " style pump and called it a day. At least then it could have been put back to stock.

Well, to start, if this guy hadn't lied, I wouldn't have gotten a pump that doesn't fit. Whooosh is now in the midst of testing a direct replacement that, according to him, fits 100% perfectly with no modifications. A perfect drop in. Once he gets the tool and gets this confirmed, he'll announce all the details. Supposedly, it out flows the Walbro a tad, but it also costs ~$300.

As for the "hacking" and all, I appologize for not updating this thread as I did in the other forum. I of coarse ended up with a sealing issue between the pump and the sleeve. I was anticipating it even. I contacted Whooosh who had purchased a whole new bucket assembly to mount a new bracket inside of and he was planning on adding an adjustable regulator and ditching the sleeve altogether. He had already bored out the sleeve to fit the Walbro, but his plans no longer required it. I bought the modified sleeve from him and swapped everything out virtually problem free. I had to cut the old sleeve off of the Walbro, and upon doing so, discovered that the sleeve is also a pre-regulator filter. This means anyone ditching the sleeve should add a high flow fuel filter in-line.

As far as the zip ties go, they are merely holding the pump upright. Lateral forces in a bucket, which is locked in place in the tank cannot be enough to cause a heavy duty zip tie to fail. I would have to be side-swiped at 50+mph for those zip ties to break, and if that happens, I really don't care so much about the pump. I used good chemical proof ones too. There is no problem there what-so-ever. The book for the Walbro even suggested it, so I have no reason to believe it's shotty.

I started this project under the assumption that the Walbro was a direct replacement. As it turns out, it's not. There were no instructions on how to change a fuel pump on even a regular 6, let alone a speed 6, so I kinda had to go at it alone. I descided to guinea-pig my $30k car to find out the results, and I was prepared to do what it took to get it operational. If you're afraid to cut a little bit here or trim a little bit there, then guess what, you will always be limited to bolt-ons.

BTW, the baffels have been in for a couple weeks now without any problems either. I've had the gas light on "E" a couple times since then, and I don't have any more starvation in the bucket.

Pick up tubes, maybe for some people in the future, but you have to realize that requires alot more modifying than what I went through. When you do one of those, you have to keep into consideration the location/hieght of the pump, the location/hieght of the pick up, the location/hieght of the return line, location of the two new penetrations, plugging the two old penetrations, ect. If it wouldn't have worked, I'd be buying a new tank, not just a new bucket assembly. Now that it's confirmed to work, it can be perfected. Believe me, if you think I'm done messing with my fuel system, you are hugely mistaking.

[ForceFed]

1st off....Well thought out and stated post.

Second...I understand the guinea pig thing and have been there myself with the MSP in its Early stages.
I just dont agree with how you got to where you are..or some of the methods you are implementing.
All in all it sounds like you are a smart guy..I just dont fully agree with your first attempt to get this done.
I am sure you guys will get this figured out and worked out down to a science and I wish you luck in the endeavor.

[ATE BALLER]

that's good to hear.Did you and Whoosh do a write up on this?

There is kind of a scattery thread on the other forum that contains all the details, but I believe Whoosh is going to do an official write up once he's done with his tests. Right now PRacing has the tool, and is installing a Walbro as we speak. He has a standback, so I'm sure we'll be seeing some hard evidence of improvement.

[ForceFed]

What is soo special about this tool BTW..I want to see a pic of this damn thing..LOL!

[ATE BALLER]

1st off....Well thought out and stated post.

Second...I understand the guinea pig thing and have been there myself with the MSP in its Early stages.
I just dont agree with how you got to where you are..or some of the methods you are implementing.
All in all it sounds like you are a smart guy..I just dont fully agree with your first attempt to get this done.
I am sure you guys will get this figured out and worked out down to a science and I wish you luck in the endeavor.

Fair enough. We all got the same goals, right?

[ATE BALLER]

What is soo special about this tool BTW..I want to see a pic of this damn thing..LOL!

The tool is required to open the tank. It depresses three tabs while it turns the retaining ring. Mazda wants ~$185 for it and you have to wait for it to ship from Japan. Whoosh got a group together to throw in for it for our uses. There's a couple pics in the other forum showing it. Once we're all pretty much done with it, we've considered renting it out with a core charge or something, but that's a little ways away. There's eight of us total, and I'm the only one done enough to not need the tool until I check everything over in the spring.

[ForceFed]

Link to pic please.

[ATE BALLER]

EDIT: Never mind, forum Nazis. PM being sent.

Post #124 pretty much shows a how-to by PRacing.

[whooosh]

the drop in pump will literally fit w/o any mods at all and flows 265l/h
I'm waiting for confirmation before I can say this is 100% for sure.

[Haltech]

Wow i just ran across this thread. Holy shit is all i can say!!

Anyhow, Whoosh, what did you find out about that pump? Also, is there an inline solution that can be fabbed up instead?

[djquik1]

I thought about using this for an upgrade.Any thoughts


http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/boostapump/boostapump.htm


It might work.

[MS6mike]

very good find i am sure some will use this!

[Haltech]

I thought about using this for an upgrade.Any thoughts


http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/boostapump/boostapump.htm


It might work.

Be careful with that as it overvolts the pump and causes pre-mature failure quicker due to the heat. Im sure you can hear your stock fuel pump now, but with that thing on there, you will.

[sbspeed]

Be careful with that as it overvolts the pump and causes pre-mature failure quicker due to the heat. Im sure you can hear your stock fuel pump now, but with that thing on there, you will.


True - that it increases the voltage - but only under boost.

There is an interesting thread ->over there<- with discussion about the stock in-tank fuel pump and voltage.

This might be the solution.

[djquik1]

Im glad I can be of help.Most of the speed guys over on (other side) just disregard what any of the 6 owners have to say or may have ideas on.But it is ok,since a couple of us FWD owners will be evening the odds and going Forced Induction soon.

[JumpingJackson]

Usually its because they post in the ms6 section about non-ms6 related stuff atleast once a day. :)

[Haltech]

We share the same engine.. No need for automobile rascism.. lol. seriously, maturity makes the difference.

[djquik1]

Usually its because they post in the ms6 section about non-ms6 related stuff atleast once a day. :)

Then call them a newb and move on.It's not like mine is the first car i have done mods to.Some of you speed owners could learn alot from a few of us since we have been modding before the speed came out.


We share the same engine.. No need for automobile rascism.. lol. seriously, maturity makes the difference.
Ahh,but I have the V6......and am naturally aspirated right now.I will be going turbo very shortly.

[bova80]

good luck with your FWD traction

[djquik1]

good luck with your FWD traction

A.It's not my first turbo FWD,so I know what to expect.
B.At least I won't scatter my rear axle on the track,or shear off bolts in the rear diff.

[aMaff]

A.It's not my first turbo FWD,so I know what to expect.
B.At least I won't scatter my rear axle on the track,or shear off bolts in the rear diff.

nope, you'll just shear them off the front :p

[bova80]

i won't have to worry about that with the upgrade mount that just came out, but thanks anyways.

[Killer]

I dont know why anyone would turbo one of these 6's with just Front Wheel Drive. My wifes 6i has the crapiest traction in fisrt gear....

[MS6mike]

A.It's not my first turbo FWD,so I know what to expect.
B.At least I won't scatter my rear axle on the track,or shear off bolts in the rear diff.

we can add mounts and fix the problem, in the other hand your traction will always suck! (evil)

and i dont worry about my engine falling off the engine bay!

[tru-boost]

ate baller has sparked my interest on this and i have a simple solution for you guys. you dont have to buy some crazy tool and do any crazy tricks to increase flow. just keep the stock in tank pump and add an in-line pump to it.
my lord how are there 5 pages to this thread and nobody thought of that ?
i will say it in this post too. i honestly dont think this will help too much. all of the vendors and tuning places i have spoken to and worked 1 on 1 with, all have said the in tank pump is good on this car. it is the cam driven pump that is the weak link. you can push all the extra fuel at the cam driven pump you want, if it is maxxed out, all that extra fuel is going right down the return line back into the tank ! i just dont believe it. i will be the first one to buy a additional pump if i see more proof, but for now, i dont buy it. boost cut is triggered by the map sensor. more fuel wont change your MAp readings, so boost cut above 18psi should still be there. if it is not on your ate ballers car....maybe he fucked up his MAP sensor while removing the ATP thing.

[ATE BALLER]

BOOST CUT IS FUEL CUT!!!!!!! THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE!!!!!! The map clamp just pushes it back, that's it. The "boost cut" is really a fuel cut due to the ecu demanding more fuel than the fuel system can handle at "x"psi. Why do you think the clamp has to be adjusted with temp. and mods? CP-E even says it themselves that you'll have to lower the voltage on the map clamp if you add more mods or the temps go down more. In open loop, this "can" be dangerous because the ecu goes into speed-density calculations, where it NEEDS to know the map. Luckily with these cars, the turbo is pretty well maxed out, so the density goes down the higher you raise boost over it's efficiency range. That means your motor won't blow when you're telling the ecu to adjust based on lower manifold pressures. Also why people have been blowing motors with bigger turbos and a map clamp. The ecu sees lower pressure and dumps less fuel, lean out, kaboom. With the stock turbo, the extra boost is so damned hot, the density is down enough for it to still be a safe mixture.

If my map sensor was messed up, I would get a code and the car probably would not run right in wot, if at all.

The cdfp IS NOT MAXED OUT!!! IT CAN ONLY DEAL WITH WHAT IT IS GIVEN!!! A high pressure pump AMPLIFIES it's supply. PERIOD! It's the laws of fluid dynamics, and Mazda didn't change that. If you feed it more, it pushes more (up to a certain point). The stock cdfp can handle more than the stock itfp is giving it, and my results are direct proof of that. The upgraded ones can handle it better which is why they have good results too.

The only time the extra fuel is sent back to the tank is when the rail pressure regulator is open (99.9% of the time). Under wot, the rpr slowly closes toward high rpm. When it's closed, maximum potential of the system is reached, and full flow is allowed. With a stock fuel system, the injectors draw the rail pressure (with maximized supply from the pump system) down to a point where the ecu deems it unsafe, resulting in fuel cut. With an upgraded fuel system, the maximized supply is greater, resulting in longer lasting rail pressure (no fuel cut). That's all. Nothing crazy. I'm not claiming to be any faster than before, other than not having fuel cut.

The in line pump has been brought up in the other forum several times, and you still have to get into the tank so you can make a clean penetration for the return. That and you're drawing even more voltage than before (twice or more actually), and you have to work it into the hard-lines that mazda was kind enough to give us.

[JumpingJackson]

Ate, so what is your proposed solution to all this?

[forrestang]

Ate, so what is your proposed solution to all this?

If you saw some of the stuff on the other forum about it.....it's a bit more nailed down.

[ATE BALLER]

Well, I think before we'll be able to successfully tune some outstanding numbers out of this car, we'll first need proper equipment (ie, reliable fuel system, reliable electrical system, 3 or 5 bar map sensor, piggyback or standalone, ect... We also need to find a way to lock the ecu in open loop. This is important because closed loop on the ms6's ecu can't successfully be adjusted, since cobb doesn't like us. I know of one way that will deffinately work. It activates a no boost tune, but it will force open loop which is something completely constant. Terminate the O2 sensor signal(s). The ecu cannot use closed loop w/o knowing the afr. A member of the other forum had to drive his car with a busted sensor that ultimately could not work, and said it ran fine until he went higher than 3psi of boost. So it goes into open loop, but activates a shitty open loop map to keep everything safe. From there though, one "should" be able to tune the hell out of that shitty map and make something good out of it. I'd rather find a way to lock in the normal open loop mode that activates under wot, but I'm not sure of a way to do that.