supercharger for mazda3

[dark3]

this is prob. a repost but i dont know if any one knows about the supercharger for the mazda3 it was in production and i havent heard any news from it in a long time any one else have any update on this?

[numbnuts22715]

why woudl you want a supercharger when turbos are better anyway

[mspHtown]

why woudl you want a supercharger when turbos are better anyway

maybe he is looking for a supercharger/turbo combo. alota the msp guys do that, pretty cheap to do.

[pluto316]

What Protege owner has a supercharger and turbo at the same time.

LET ALONE a supercharger.

[pluto316]

why woudl you want a supercharger when turbos are better anyway

Wow, what a great blanket statement. I am sure you have a lot of facts to back that up. Please explain.

[numbnuts22715]

Wow, what a great blanket statement. I am sure you have a lot of facts to back that up. Please explain.


I know that its mostly preference, but my reasons:

1. with a turbocharger you have more choices
2. you can make more power out of a turbo
3. a lot easier
4. easier to upgrade if you wanted a different brand/ type
5. instead of using power to make power, it uses exhaust gases to spool up the turbo so its free creation of more power.
6. cheaper.
7. more efficient.


what esle do you want?

[pluto316]

I know that its mostly preference, but my reasons:

1. with a turbocharger you have more choices

This depends on the car mostly, but for the case of the Mazda3 this is correct.


2. you can make more power out of a turboIncorrect. Having a turbo doesn't by default make more power than having a supercharger. Just as the supporting pieces make a difference along with the different trim levels of turbos, the same rules apply to superchargers. Superchargers have come a long way recently.

http://www.350z-tech.com/w/images/thumb/9/9f/HKS_Rotrex_Supercharger_09_z.jpg/180px-HKS_Rotrex_Supercharger_09_z.jpg

HKS agrees.


3. a lot easierRemoving the exhaust manifold, replumbing oil lines, routing intercooler pipes, etc. is a lot easier? Interesting theory you have there.

That is, if you are running a intercooled supercharger its about the same amount of work.

http://www.fawcettperformance.com/images/hks_supercharger_kit_nissan_350z.jpg
350z supercharger kit by HKS.

http://www.hksusa.com/images_products/L_3087.jpg
RSX turbo kit by HKS. (The 350z supercharger comes with an oil cooler too, don't be fooled.)


4. easier to upgrade if you wanted a different brand/ typeYes and no. Going from a T25 to a T3 (for example) requires a new manifold, exhaust, plumbing, etc. Not sure what you were going for here.


5. instead of using power to make power, it uses exhaust gases to spool up the turbo so its free creation of more power.Nothing is free, 99% of turbo manifolds would make an awful N/A header, and drawing the pre-turbo-spooled air through all that extra plumbing isn't exactly leaving you with 100% stock factory power either.


6. cheaper.Wow, pulling that one out of the air I see.


7. more efficient.I would agree with you here, but only if you can explain why.



what esle do you want?People to stop posting dumb shit like "why woudl you want a supercharger when turbos are better anyway" as a start.

[numbnuts22715]

let me specify a little more since you dont understand.

1. for any car there are more choices. How many choices of superchargers are there for a honda? 3??? comptech, vortech, jackson racing
You can build a custom turbo setup with limitless options. First pick out the manifold, then whatever else you want.

2. Yes you can make more power of a turbo with the same amount of boost. Some is wasted with a supercharger because it uses power to make it, whereas with a turbo exhaust gas does the work.

3. You cant compare a nonintercooled supercharger to an intercooled turbo, thats just retarded. So yes, its more work. Removing an intake manifold sucks dick, I've done it before, more than once. Removing the exhaust manifold is a LOT easier.

4. You don't always have to change the flange to a different turbo, you can get a gt30 that makes almost 500 hp with the t25 flange, so unless you are going to do some outrageous moddinng, you'll be fine.

5. were not talking about n/a here, so wtf is the reason for this? Im talking about turbo's vs superchargers. Supercharges are pulyl driven, so theres more loss throughout the drivetrain, with a turbo it's spooled up by the exhaust gas.

6. You can build a custom turbo kit for reasonably cheap, where can you even get shit for a supercharger for this car? Or even any car??

7. And lastly, if you had any brain at all, you would have read the part where I said turbo's use exhaust gases to spool them up. That's where the more efficient part comes in.


I dont even know why you're defending superchargers so much, I can tell you've got a lot of experience with them from owning an msp and an ms3.

[Haltech]

Guys youre forgetting one thing.. Aftermarket turbo's arent smog legal in some states whereas superchargers are. The second you move any catalytic converter, you pissed off the smog nazi's. Superchargers on 4 cyl's suck because of the hp needed to spin them.

[numbnuts22715]

Guys youre forgetting one thing.. Aftermarket turbo's arent smog legal in some states whereas superchargers are. The second you move any catalytic converter, you pissed off the smog nazi's. Superchargers on 4 cyl's suck because of the hp needed to spin them.

you're totally right, but on some cars, you dont have to remove a cat, and the turbo still isnt smog legal, correct? That's how it was with hondas/acuras anyway.

Also, how many of us are worried with smog legal stuff? I know I'm not. But I agree with you 100 percent.

[pluto316]

I dont even know why you're defending superchargers so much, I can tell you've got a lot of experience with them from owning an msp and an ms3.


Yes because the only cars I have ever owned or worked on are Mazdaspeed Proteges and 3s. (yawn)

Its not that I am defending superchargers is that someone asked if there was a supercharger for the 3 and you thought it was a good time to get on your soapbox about how you don't like them.

[TheDutchGun]

Superchargers = awesome but I own a Mustang so my opinion is useless.

[AJ08]

i like them both.. i supercharged my svt focus i had and was fun but i was wishing i bought a turbo later on... but all depends on you there both fun but i like having a turbo better.

[oskinosmee]

Supercharger sounds good

[mspHtown]

What Protege owner has a supercharger and turbo at the same time.

LET ALONE a supercharger.

dude you need to calm down.

OBVIOUSLY i was kidding seeing as there is no protege on this board that is running a supercharger with a turbo charger.

superchargers are limited. each has there own advantages and disadvantages. however, nine times out of 10 i would go with a turbo charger. a small turbo will almost spool instantly. so lag is not a huge deal.

[ALIEN3T]

a company called F2 is workignon one! it will be hidden and sit ont he back of the motor. hard ot see right waway from the front of the car witht he hood open. along with more turbo kits!

[dark3]

wow i just asked if anyone has heard about a s/c for the mazda 3 2.3 as for for other members opinion about turbos being better i appreciate the info but i already have a turbo vehicle, and now i would prefer a s/c for once
here are some pics of the s/c that was suppose to be for a 2.3 focus but turns out that it wasnt smog legal for the focus and was gonna be for the mazda3 instead, i dunno some b/s like that but here the pics
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/fusek258/IMG_0466.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/fusek258/JetFests116.jpg

[redspeed]

Some good reading, if someone wants more info:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/supercharger.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger

[DE31]

you're totally right, but on some cars, you dont have to remove a cat, and the turbo still isnt smog legal, correct? That's how it was with hondas/acuras anyway.

Also, how many of us are worried with smog legal stuff? I know I'm not. But I agree with you 100 percent.i do now that a friend of mine got a ref ticket after being pulled over for tint.

which makes the carb legal comptech appealing

[clos561]

what a wierd spot for a supercharger, comptech is what was used for acuras..dealer mods, i know a guy that works at acura and he said they dont use comptech anymore or something

[crashkelly]

What Protege owner has a supercharger and turbo at the same time.

LET ALONE a supercharger.

I was just wondering the same thing...I think I heard ONE guy mention he was going to try to attempt it...but as far as the statement that a lot of MSP guys do it...I dont know about that one

EDIT: apparently I missed the sarcasm of the original post...my bad.

I dunno how this thread turned into turbo vs supercharger...when clearly the op wants to know about superchargers...At to put the argument to rest they both have pros and cons...its up to personal preference in the end...and this guy wants to go s/c.

[happy and angry]

People to stop posting dumb shit like "why woudl you want a supercharger when turbos are better anyway" as a start.THANK YOU. I read this thread and started to cry a little on the inside. I was going to address the mountain of dumb, but I wasn't sure where to start climbing... you saved me the effort.

[crashkelly]

THANK YOU. I read this thread and started to cry a little on the inside. I was going to address the mountain of dumb, but I wasn't sure where to start climbing... you saved me the effort.

HAHA I just spit out soda at work after I read that. I also agree with the "mountain of dumb" you speak of. Pluto hit the nail on the head as usual. I dont see as many posts from him anymore...probably because he has a ms3 now and has left the msp realm, but when they come out they are priceless.

[numbnuts22715]

HAHA I just spit out soda at work after I read that. I also agree with the "mountain of dumb" you speak of. Pluto hit the nail on the head as usual. I dont see as many posts from him anymore...probably because he has a ms3 now and has left the msp realm, but when they come out they are priceless.

I asked him a serious question as to why hed prefer a supercharger, I think that I deserved a response. I stated my opinion just as all of you are doing...

[sanblaster]

I asked him a serious question as to why hed prefer a supercharger, I think that I deserved a response. I stated my opinion just as all of you are doing, so you can all suck my dick.


Some of you guys posting in this thread are already walking fine lines. I suggest leave the thread. Numbnuts leave it be and figure out the ignore function.. Keep your cool.

[dark3]

I asked him a serious question as to why hed prefer a supercharger, I think that I deserved a response. I stated my opinion just as all of you are doing, so you can all suck my dick.
and i responded "but i already have a turbo vehicle, and now i would prefer a s/c for once"
i wanna have a lil bit of everything

[numbnuts22715]

and i responded "but i already have a turbo vehicle, and now i would prefer a s/c for once"
i wanna have a lil bit of everything

I wasnt saying that to you, just everybody else.

I just think superchargers are best on a v8 or something like that. maybe on a foxbody or something like that?

[crashkelly]

I wasnt saying that to you, just everybody else.

I just think superchargers are best on a v8 or something like that. maybe on a foxbody or something like that?

stop littering the guy's thread. he wants to know about supercharger's for his car, not your opinion on why he shouldnt get one. And to avoid further litter in this thread I wont ask you to justify why a bodystyle (ie.foxbody) would have any bearing on whether a supercharger would be a good fit on a car.

(Dont worry I already get it. You see old muscle cars with superchargers so you think imports shoulds have turbos and muscle cars should have superchargers)

[dark3]

I wasnt saying that to you, just everybody else.

I just think superchargers are best on a v8 or something like that. maybe on a foxbody or something like that?

yea but i wanted to try something new, since this motor is off the focus and ive seen heard very good things of the s/c and theres a guy here where i live with a s/c on his focus i think it was badd ass especially when it kept head to head with an 07 modded gt and yes i do know that its a 2.0 and our 2.3 have alot more restrictions.

but like i said i already have a twin turbo z i wanna try a s/c on this 3 than boosting it, besides this 3 is gonna be my new project car :D

[Sierra117]

what a wierd spot for a supercharger,

(mswerd)

Especially what looks to be a twin screw...

[chacon101]

The super charger in that pic is in a strange spot. Why wouldn't they just move the s/c closer to the real engine?

It seems like they went out of their way to move it over when they could have made the lines go straight up. I must be missing something...like how it fits in the engine bay?

[flipstylex]

i have a friend of mines that supercharged a kia !!!! ;-)

[kragan76]

Guys youre forgetting one thing.. Aftermarket turbo's arent smog legal in some states whereas superchargers are. The second you move any catalytic converter, you pissed off the smog nazi's. Superchargers on 4 cyl's suck because of the hp needed to spin them.

Actually, its the torque required to turn them. Thats why they are not so great on 4 bangers. Even the higher horse power hondas (s2000 with 230+ hp) can't spin a SC well because of the lower torque rating. SC's are parasitic so they are robbing the engine of torque to produce higher HP but not nearly as much torque on a 4 cylinder motor. Now, on bigger american muscle cars you see SC because there is plenty of torque to go around.

[happy and angry]

I asked him a serious question as to why hed prefer a supercharger, I think that I deserved a response. I stated my opinion just as all of you are doing, so you can all suck my dick.There is nothing at all wrong with stating an opinion, but that's not really what you did. You basically said "Turbos pwn Superchargers, end of story!" Then you listed a bunch of entirely subjective reasons for this stance. That's not really a good way to make a point.

That said, for this particular application, a relatively low displacement inline 4, I agree with you. I don't see superchargers being a very effective way of producing big power. Throttle response would be better in any gear at any speed, but it wouldn't have quite the oomph the MS3 does. Recent examples of low displacement supercharged motors would be the Cobalt SS Supercharged, and its numbers aren't that bad.

Turbos have their advantages, so do supers. For example: the MS3 0-60 time is hampered by turbo lag and an extra shift, which is why the Cobalt SS with 80 fewer tlb/ft and 50 fewer ponies is only about 2/10ths off our pace to 60 and about 4/10ths in the 1/4 mile.

Arguments like "easier" and "more efficient" depend entirely on the kit or application. Dismissing the benefits of a supercharger out of hand and going on about turbos just comes across as a typical misinformed ricer attitude.

But back to the topic... I haven't heard of a supercharged Mazda3 yet, but Vortech probably has something you can use. No idea if there are any sepcific kits out there for the 3 either.

[fourthmeal]

Nail on the head, Kragan. Exactly. The torque of these little motors simply can't keep up. Also, that is a positive-displacement supercharger in that picture, as opposed to the centrifugal designs. That means the parasitic loss is pretty high, and the overall efficiency of the engine will drop. The pumping losses should go down though :)

I think SC's are great, but even then you must separate them into "camps" of positive displacement (Roots, Whipple), and Centrifugal (Vortech, others I can't think of at the moment!), and those two have drastically different behaviors as it is. A Centrifugal almost feels like a turbo...and in reality it is 1/2 of one! Power up top, but pretty gutless down below. Also, a nice advantage of low parasitic loss down low though. The Positive Displacement ones (like that one in the picture) are a different animal altogether. These are the ones you see sitting on Dragsters with their neat air intake and accompanying red throttle butterflies on top of the engine. These roots-style or whipple blowers constantly force-feed the engine, and are a bit parasitic by design. The great thing about these particular S.C.'s is their ability to literally LEAP off idle with a ferocious amount of power, thanks to that design. It becomes far less efficient at upper RPM's, but man, if you are after that low to mid-RPM always-there power, the whipple/roots is the way to go. Really, if you're after some bottom-end grunt but not really needing the top-end rush, go with this type of SC with supporting mods (fuel, etc.) and you should be pleased. Automatic transmission cars seem to like this mod as long as the torque converter won't die under the additional torque!

A turbo (or centrifugal supercharger) would be the other side of the fence, used to benefit at the upper rpm range (and you could say that the turbo is more efficient at this.)

With a turbo using the otherwise wasted energy contained within the exhaust of the vehicle, it is INDEED more efficient then a supercharger, which is operating on precisely the opposite side of the engine, PULLING torque and power from the motor. Of course the power a supercharger develops through its air compression more then makes up for the parasitic losses, but that is why a SC doesn't produce the same HP at the same forced induction pressures as a turbo GIVEN everything else including CFM FLOW are equal. This is not up for dispute or debate, it is a function of the way they work! Both are fine, because an engine with more power is still going to please the owner, no matter which way the power is created. A turbo simply borrows from the waste-side of power creation to do it. Both setups require more fuel to work properly, as proportionate to the amount of air the engine takes in, so that is a wash. The intercoolers are a whole 'nother matter, but my gut feeling is that as long as there is an IC on the setup that can somewhat drop the air temp back down to near ambient, then who cares how it did it? Water cooling (like that one seen in the picture) has its own problems to deal with, as does Air-Air, but either way you've got cooler air and you'll need anytime you compress air (thermal dynamics classes 101)

I got to agree with a lot of people who say that a turbo is easier! It isn't that it is less complex (its NOT), its not that it is any faster (its NOT), its not that there are cheaper parts (NO WAY)...It comes down to the fact that turbo systems are designed almost in a modular way, as compared to a supercharger. Bottom line: If no company makes a supercharger you want, you're going to do a LOT of custom work. A turbo will require some work most likely, but it is a much simpler affair overall. If a company does make one for you, its damn near bolt on "Technician level B" work! Lucky YOU!



Actually, its the torque required to turn them. Thats why they are not so great on 4 bangers. Even the higher horse power hondas (s2000 with 230+ hp) can't spin a SC well because of the lower torque rating. SC's are parasitic so they are robbing the engine of torque to produce higher HP but not nearly as much torque on a 4 cylinder motor. Now, on bigger american muscle cars you see SC because there is plenty of torque to go around.

[subparpunk03]

Back in my corolla XRS days, I was looking into a custom solution with a rotrex supercharger. They are pretty neat little centrifugal units, and with a little fabrication work you can put them almost anywhere. They work pretty well on tiny little 4-bangers, someone was pumping out nearly 360whp from the little 2zz engine if I remember correctly...

[Haltech]

i do now that a friend of mine got a ref ticket after being pulled over for tint.

which makes the carb legal comptech appealing

Unless the officer who pulls you over is a ASE certified D.O.T officer, he can not ticket you for engine mods because he has no idea what is and what is not stock, let alone, CARB exemption. If they ask you to pop the hood, refuse if they cant provide proof of ASE and DOT. We do this here in CA. Only with CHP with blue jumpsuits can inspect your engine for mods and even they dont know what the hell is legal.

[dark3]

There is nothing at all wrong with stating an opinion, but that's not really what you did. You basically said "Turbos pwn Superchargers, end of story!" Then you listed a bunch of entirely subjective reasons for this stance. That's not really a good way to make a point.

That said, for this particular application, a relatively low displacement inline 4, I agree with you. I don't see superchargers being a very effective way of producing big power. Throttle response would be better in any gear at any speed, but it wouldn't have quite the oomph the MS3 does. Recent examples of low displacement supercharged motors would be the Cobalt SS Supercharged, and its numbers aren't that bad.

Turbos have their advantages, so do supers. For example: the MS3 0-60 time is hampered by turbo lag and an extra shift, which is why the Cobalt SS with 80 fewer tlb/ft and 50 fewer ponies is only about 2/10ths off our pace to 60 and about 4/10ths in the 1/4 mile.

Arguments like "easier" and "more efficient" depend entirely on the kit or application. Dismissing the benefits of a supercharger out of hand and going on about turbos just comes across as a typical misinformed ricer attitude.

But back to the topic... I haven't heard of a supercharged Mazda3 yet, but Vortech probably has something you can use. No idea if there are any sepcific kits out there for the 3 either.
yea i asked a simple question like HAS ANYONE HEARD ABOUT ANY S/C FOR THE MAZDA3 not WHICH IS BETTER A TURBO OR S/C or other stuff
i do appreciate the ones that did stay on topic, and the ones that had nothing to do with turbos or s/c, i do appreciate all feedback but just wanted to know, HAS ANYONE HEARD/DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT A S/C FOR THE MAZDA3

[numbnuts22715]

yea i asked a simple question like HAS ANYONE HEARD ABOUT ANY S/C FOR THE MAZDA3 not WHICH IS BETTER A TURBO OR S/C or other stuff
i do appreciate the ones that did stay on topic, and the ones that had nothing to do with turbos or s/c, i do appreciate all feedback but just wanted to know, HAS ANYONE HEARD/DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT A S/C FOR THE MAZDA3


There isn't anything in production at this time from what I can find by doing searches on yahoo/google/here/other forum. I didn't find anything about a for sure release date either, I've heard a few people saying that such and such company is working on something, but none of them had a great deal of progress or anything like that.
I hope that's something more like what you are looking for.

[dark3]

^^^pretty much, thanks.

[DE31]

Unless the officer who pulls you over is a ASE certified D.O.T officer, he can not ticket you for engine mods because he has no idea what is and what is not stock, let alone, CARB exemption. If they ask you to pop the hood, refuse if they cant provide proof of ASE and DOT. We do this here in CA. Only with CHP with blue jumpsuits can inspect your engine for mods and even they dont know what the hell is legal.
i wasnt paying attention much from what he was saying but he did mention the officer called in an "expert"

[dark3]

The super charger in that pic is in a strange spot. Why wouldn't they just move the s/c closer to the real engine?

It seems like they went out of their way to move it over when they could have made the lines go straight up. I must be missing something...like how it fits in the engine bay?
o thats cuz that motor is off the 2.3 ford focus motor, their the opposite of ours where our intake mani. is on the front and headers on the back, theirs is the other way around

[redspeed]

The ms3 engine is NOT from a focus. The Ford's Duratec 23 is based on Mazda designed MZR.

[dark3]

The ms3 engine is NOT from a focus. The Ford's Duratec 23 is based on Mazda designed MZR.
im not talking bout the ms3 just 3's in general. actually the its the other way around the duratec isnt based on the mzr, the mzr is based from the duratec. the duratec 2.3 came out on the focus st which only came 4dr, before mazda3 came out

[edrive73]

All I can say about what happened to this poor thread is WOW.

[redspeed]

im not talking bout the ms3 just 3's in general. actually the its the other way around the duratec isnt based on the mzr, the mzr is based from the duratec. the duratec 2.3 came out on the focus st which only came 4dr, before mazda3 came out

Sorry dark, but you are wrong. Ford dropped their zetec engine for the Mazda designed MZR and called it Duratec.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Z_engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duratec


And Focus ST had a modified Zetec-E engine, not a Duratec23.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_(International)

[tsunami]

wow... just wow... at least the thread didn't evolve into a name calling mess... if you can't say anything relevant to a SC on a mazda 3 then just leave the thread alone, if you want to discuss the origins of a mzr engine do a search there are probably 50 threads on it... if you want to discuss the sc vs turbo thing there are probably 100's of threads about that so do a search and jump into the discussion...


thank you come again