new cobalt ss , ms3's killer ???

[flipstylex]

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/28/o...-bows-at-sema/

found this link guys, it might edge out the ms3 as far as being king of sports compact :-(

[ForceFed]

Yup..Welcome to last week.

[protegeV]

performance yes...fit, finish, functionality(its a coupe)...NO. that is until they come out with the sedan verion(Im looking forward to that:))

[Brian MP5T]

Meh

[Haltech]

Its still a Cobalt in the end... and GM's fit and finish is worse than Fords.

[jeg0024]

Welcome!

[CHICO2003]

that link sucks.

anyway, no way in hell it'll edge it out. what does it have 260hp? I'm guessing they both weigh about the same so their #s will be similar.

Personally, I've never cared for the cobalt's styling. I know they're trying to go for a 'corvette jr' thing with the taillights but... they just don't work. the rest of the car is so freakin blah it's not even funny. the design of the last gen cavalier, imo, was better. as far as the interior goes... craplastic abounds everywhere. in the end... formidable from a bang for the buck standpoint but... that's about it.

[protegeV]

the only thing that'll help the SS is if they can set the price at $19,995 or something under 20.

[PeterC]

Ok let's see...less hp, less torque, less displacement, no LSD, probably no torque management, guaranteed worse handling. It's just going to be another Dodge Caliber.

[protegeV]

it does have an LSD...or at least an "available" LSD. And to its credit they have something called the "no-lift shift" system that I guess maintains boost during shifts. You figure with the solstice GXP and sky redline running 14.0 and occasionally faster, and with this car being FWD you still looking at low 14s. Less shifting with the 5spd instead of 6 too.

[redspeed]

the design of the last gen cavalier, imo, was better.

You are crazy. I'm not a fan of the cobalt, but the cavalier was a real piece of shit. Somehow I like this new cobalt concept, is a REAL step forward, not world class or anything like that but a lot better.
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/sema07_cobaltss---01.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/sema07_cobaltss---07.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/cobaltsslivelive1.jpg

[protegeV]

yes, there is a reason they called it the crapolier. MUCH worse than a slobalt. ;)

[numbnuts22715]

Theres no telling what this car can do until it comes out.
There ios a possibility that since its a coupe and not a 5 door hatch that it could handle better than the ms3, but we wont know until it comes out.

There's on article saying it beats the nurburgring record by like 13 seconds, and if thats the case, it's going to beat out the ms3 pretty easily, but until the car comes out and gets reviewed by an external source it doesnt have much validity.
I'm excited to see something come out that actually has a chance of giving the mazdaspeed3 a run for its money.

[Igve2shtz]

My best friends are all part of the Cavalier/Cobalt crowd, and I cannot agree more that those two cars are about 10 years behind the times in terms of fit/finish.

But, a stock Ecotec can handle about 300 whp (I've seen it). A stock Ecotec is the 2.2L, naturally aspirated version of GM's global 4 cylinder, which the LSJ and LNF are built off of (which power the Cobalt SS and Solstice GXP, respectively).

Ive seen Cobalts with nothing more than a Stage 2 upgrade put down 221 hp at the front wheels on a Mustang dyno. Now, lets assume the new engine is 260 hp, and comes with a Stage 2 upgrade. That will already put the Cobalt close to the 300 crank hp mark. That is where Chevy will win out over the MS3 becuase of their Factory Backed Staged upgrades which can increase power well past 300 hp, all with a warranty. So, already, the engine is better built than an MZR and is more mod-friendly.

I also look to the gearing. The MS3 does not need a 6 speed with so much torque on hand. If you were able to hold power to redline, a 5 speed would be the best choice. This is where the Cobalt SS may shine also because even with less displacement, Chevy has a way of tuning for nice flat torque curves.

If you are looking for an all around car, the MS3 is the winner. But if you want a straight-line performer, I might have to put money on the [future] Cobalt SS. But, that also depends on the driver.

[protegeV]

Theres no telling what this car can do until it comes out.
There ios a possibility that since its a coupe and not a 5 door hatch that it could handle better than the ms3, but we wont know until it comes out.

There's on article saying it beats the nurburgring record by like 13 seconds, and if thats the case, it's going to beat out the ms3 pretty easily, but until the car comes out and gets reviewed by an external source it doesnt have much validity.
I'm excited to see something come out that actually has a chance of giving the mazdaspeed3 a run for its money.like you said, being that its a coupe it probably will handle slightly better than a MS3...but thats the trade-off. A speedy wagon you can use or a "5-seater" coupe thats really only acceptable for 2.

[protegeV]

for sure if you want a factory backed performer go with chevy. Ive seen ppl having lots of problems with voided warranty and such on Mazdas b/c of something as trivial as an intake. The dealer tried screwing me on my broken LSD due to "abuse"

I WORK at a chevy dealership(pay no mind to how I might seem to defend the cobalt I am really no fan of chevys at ALL)...I know first hand how easy it is to get away with modifying your car, though it may cary dealership to dealership. Mine is so worried about CSI scores and such they could care less if you modify your car. I had an SS come in a couple weeks ago. 26K miles and it had a bad cat. I drove it and the boost gauge was going up to 18psi and the s/c was howling but it had no power. I found a home made CAI that had the filter about 8" off the ground. A 3' catback with no muffler, just straight pipe coming out of the cat, a REALLY small pulley(thus the boosting to 18psi instead of the normal 8-10), and bigger non-GM injectors. I showed my boss and he said you can either fight it and get a bad score because they also had a problem with the window I had to fix under warranty which they would get a survey for....or I could just put the damn converter on and collect my .8hr...

[Rotary_Powered]

On the track I think the cars will be on par perhaps with the cobalt have a slight advantage in the form of less weight (about 200 lbs) and a lower center of gravity. I'd like to see both cars tricked out from their respectively catalogs and then go at it. The time around the ring is no joke I'm sure the MS3 would be no more than a few seconds behind in the hands of the right driver. The last time the MS3 hit the ring for promotion was in the hands of a pro who had not been around the ring before.

[CHICO2003]

You are crazy. I'm not a fan of the cobalt, but the cavalier was a real piece of shit. Somehow I like this new cobalt concept, is a REAL step forward, not world class or anything like that but a lot better.


Hey, I never said the cavalier wasn't a piece of shit. I merely said I liked the way it looked better.

In retrospect though... (just googled a few cavs) I take it back. they both suck balls... the cobalt is definitely the better looking of the two though.

which isn't saying much at all... it's just so plain looking.

[stevekt]

GM will find a way to fuck this up.

[Haltech]

for sure if you want a factory backed performer go with chevy. Ive seen ppl having lots of problems with voided warranty and such on Mazdas b/c of something as trivial as an intake. The dealer tried screwing me on my broken LSD due to "abuse"

I WORK at a chevy dealership(pay no mind to how I might seem to defend the cobalt I am really no fan of chevys at ALL)...I know first hand how easy it is to get away with modifying your car, though it may cary dealership to dealership. Mine is so worried about CSI scores and such they could care less if you modify your car. I had an SS come in a couple weeks ago. 26K miles and it had a bad cat. I drove it and the boost gauge was going up to 18psi and the s/c was howling but it had no power. I found a home made CAI that had the filter about 8" off the ground. A 3' catback with no muffler, just straight pipe coming out of the cat, a REALLY small pulley(thus the boosting to 18psi instead of the normal 8-10), and bigger non-GM injectors. I showed my boss and he said you can either fight it and get a bad score because they also had a problem with the window I had to fix under warranty which they would get a survey for....or I could just put the damn converter on and collect my .8hr...

You should void his warranty considering his blower is going to explode being spun that far out of spec. Eaton's blow heat after 12 psi. Spin them over the max rpm and that damn thing is going to go boom! Ive seen a few lightnings explode eatons because of a 2" pulley on the blower shaft and a 6 psi overdrive pulley on the crank. I can only imagine what the oil looks like in that blower.

[Chief7925]

srt foooooooouuuuuuur

[J-protege]

Yes, it will be quite fast in a straight line, maybe even handle nicely. However, most of us also own the car as a daily driver.

Low 14's or not, would you really want to drive a Cobalt day after day as your daily driver, just to be able to pull a quick quarter once in a while?

There's more to a car than the 0-60. A quick car should be paired up with a livable interior, plus have room for 5 people, and some storage space.

New Cobalt SS: Fast
New SRT-4: Fast + spacious
Current MS3: Fast + spacious + an interior you can actually stand to look at.

[jalaan1]

Meh


(iagree)

[Rotary_Powered]

Overall I still want to see this come out, it raises the competition on the playing field, and competition improves the breed for the others as well.:)

[flipstylex]

ya'll know that this thing is actually 16 seconds faster on nurburg. But i don't really call nurburgring a good track to get times cuz its 11 miles long !!! I would say laguna seca would be better to pair the 2 bcuz the track is way shorter and the curves is just right. To be honest, if paired on a shorter track, i think ms3 would still pawn bcuz on car and driver, they tested some of these cars an ms3 is 2 seconds away from 350z and pawned the s2000 by 2 secs ....hence rwd too...

[AutoXRacer]

Wow, I'm impressed with its numbers and equipment wise... But as far as looks, meh I'll pass.

I think our engines might have the upper hand on power and torque with mods...but we'll have to find our own homemade reciepts since Mazda won't help us out.

We just have to wait and see what the media will say about this SS...
Till then, we are still King!!! :)

[flipstylex]

ya'll know, even king kong takes a fall , it's nice to be on top, but sooner or later, sumone is gonna overtake ya...Well, king or not, i still luv this car. It suits me well cuz i got 2 dogs and my backseat can fold, that way my dog can sit nicely !! It's all about personality , not speed :-), but to be king, its just an icing in the cake.

[numbnuts22715]

There was also some speculation I was reading aboiut how the cobalt ss was using slicks when it went around the nurburgring. I dont know if its true or whatever though. So who knows.

[Sacrilicious]

as far as performance goes, i'd not be surprised if this cobalt ss left us behind in both acceleration and handling. as far as practicality goes, though, we still have a big advantage on it. as impressive as our car is, this is a cutthroat fwd performance market, and cars rise and fall at an amazing rate. i'm just pleased that we did as well as we did for so long...=D

[AutoXRacer]

Mazdaspeed will always remain the best balanced cars on the road...whether they are not the fastest nor the best handling...no one can beat the total package!!!

And thats what Mazda is all about... "The Total Package"

Its a drivers car...no matter if its a wagon or a pure sports car...

Zoom Zoom biotches!!!(drive2)

[BluMicaR]

Did anyone say Cobalt < or = Cavalier yet? 'Cause it just looks like the crappy Cavalier all the 'cool' punks and hoodlums drove around 10 years ago.

[protegeV]

You should void his warranty considering his blower is going to explode being spun that far out of spec. Eaton's blow heat after 12 psi. Spin them over the max rpm and that damn thing is going to go boom! Ive seen a few lightnings explode eatons because of a 2" pulley on the blower shaft and a 6 psi overdrive pulley on the crank. I can only imagine what the oil looks like in that blower.haha, wish I could. Thing is, there's no way to "void" someones warranty. You cant put a big VOID stamp on it and you can't prevent another dealer from fixing it under warranty. If we were to deny service they'd just complain to GM...we'd get screwed on our customer service, and ultimately have to fix it anyways. This happens all the time...Mostly with the Cobalt SS and Corvettes.

[Andrewsmc]

Hm :( i actualy like the cobalt, I was VERY close to buying one before i bought my msp. Just had to sign about 1 more paper lol.

[chaos4]

Theres no telling what this car can do until it comes out.
There ios a possibility that since its a coupe and not a 5 door hatch that it could handle better than the ms3, but we wont know until it comes out.

There's on article saying it beats the nurburgring record by like 13 seconds, and if thats the case, it's going to beat out the ms3 pretty easily, but until the car comes out and gets reviewed by an external source it doesnt have much validity.
I'm excited to see something come out that actually has a chance of giving the mazdaspeed3 a run for its money.

What the hell Nurburgring record did it beat? There must be 100's of records at the 'ring. Again, which record?
(protest)

[Sacrilicious]

the ms3 time was 8:39, i believe...that's a healthy 17sec better than ours.

[clos561]

its a nice car and im not going to hate on it, i just hope they do a good job on the interior without SO MUCH PLASTIC in this one. Wil be fast and will handle good because it is a coupe. Alot of you guys are jsut str8 up flaming this car without knowing much about it.

[clos561]

what the weight on this thing anyways? about the same as a regular cobalt ss?

[GullyBoy21]

WAIT! You guys are saying the new cobalt is going to be faster than MS3? Chevy Cobalt SS is being dropped altogether from chevy's line.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/04/chevy-cancels-cobalt-ss-supercharged-for-2008/

HHR SS is taking over the cobalt SS. It looks heavy and only has 260 hp.

[CHICO2003]

lmao

[flipstylex]

mwahahahah .....

man, i was expecting a real close matchup, now, it's another garbage truck being put against the ms3. shit, with all the expectation with the srt4, another garbage came along jeez... anyways, why can't they make a sports compact that can come close to the ms3 ;-) !!!

ms3 ftw

[Focused]

Damn some of y'all are straight ig'nant!!! Or perhaps just slow? OR just haters? haha

The Cobalt SS/SC is being dropped, and the Cobalt SS/TC, as in TurboCharger, is being introduced.

BTW, the record that it reportedly beat was the FWD sport compact class 'Ring record, which was held by a hot hatch Opel (I forget the name).

[Sacrilicious]

errr...just so you guys know, that cancellation was meant for the supercharged version of the cobalt SS. this one we're discussing here is the turbocharged version. the supercharged version was canned in june 2007, but the turbocharged SS here is very much alive.

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/14288/2008-chevrolet-cobalt-ss.html?al=104

[Sacrilicious]

haha...it's as Focused said...;o

[BlackCherry06]

They can put as much lipstick as they want on that pig, but it will never be a better overall package. Faster? Maybe, but so what. The interior is too low-rent and the exterior fit-and-finish still (after all this time) isn't up to Japanese standards. I rather have a good overall car than a Radio Flyer wagon with a hot engine.

[Tigs]

Damn some of y'all are straight ig'nant!!! Or perhaps just slow? OR just haters? haha

The Cobalt SS/SC is being dropped, and the Cobalt SS/TC, as in TurboCharger, is being introduced.

BTW, the record that it reportedly beat was the FWD sport compact class 'Ring record, which was held by a hot hatch Opel (I forget the name).



Anyone ever find out if that was a production configuration in which they beat the old ring record for that class? Meaning, production tires, weight and engine settings etc? A ring record without knowing if the car was/is at full production equivalents means very little.

Also worth of note, is the fact that the cobalt isn't governed from factory (at this point) and thus tops out at something like 169 mph..which at the ring would surely add up.

[protegeV]

I doubt that thing could ever get up to 169 even on the straights its not that aerodynamic.

[Tigs]

That's it's listed top speed. Whether or not it got up to that speed at the ring is another story.

[Sacrilicious]

quite honestly, it looks at least as aerodynamic as our ms3.

[boostdog]

i think you guys are underestimating this car..it pulled a very nice skid pad #. i think it will be just as potent as the old srt /ms3/wrx ( and hopefully the caliber srt4).. i think chvey learned there lesson...if they price this thing below 20K i gaurantee alot of people will buy it.

[CHICO2003]

I'm not sure anyone is underestimating it. We all know it'll be fast and will probably handle well. That's not the issue. In the end, you've got a blandly styled, cheaply made car. While there are a # of things that can address the styling issue (I've seen some pretty sick Cobalts w/body kits and what not) there's not much that can address the shoddy build quality. For some, that's not a concern. Think about the target market for this thing... rattling dashboard? just crank up the bass more. car shits the bed after 50k miles? It'll probably be wrapped around a telephone pole at about 30. For those of us who want a fast car with plenty of style... above avg build quality and outstanding reliability, well...

[Sacrilicious]

quite honestly, this will be what the srt4 COULD have been. too bad for dodge...oO;

[protegeV]

we know what it could have been...actually what any caliber COULD have been...a car...not a mini-suv like it is

[redspeed]

I seen some lowered cobalts, with window tint and some better looking headlights, you know keep it simple, and they look pretty cool. The interior doesn't look too bad and it's waaayyy better looking than the caliber's interior.

I really dislike any domestic cars, to the point of never owned one in 14 years that I been driving. But I really think that chevy is going in the right direction with this new cobalt. I still think the ms3 is better looking and all, and if was going to buy a new car after this new cobalt hit the dealer, I would still buy the ms3 hands down. It would be really cool if Ford brings the focus RS to the states, just for competition's sakes. Imagine the magazine comparisons.

[blaggah]

I dunno, I kinda like it. I wouldn't trade my MS3 for it though.

[///M Compact]

The way I see it, the more factory sport compacts the better. Competition improves the breed. Maybe the new kids on the block will encourage Mazdaspeed to offer more performance upgrades- such as the ecu calibration from the Extreme MPS...

[elderlycoffee]

Killer? I think not.
It may be a better competitor than the SRT4 but it's not even on the same level as a mazda 3.
You never feel like you have a cheap car no matter what model 3 you have.
A cobalt is a piece of shit compared to any mazda.

[Hikaru9]

what does it have 260hp? I'm guessing they both weigh about the same so their #s will be similar.


On the track I think the cars will be on par perhaps with the cobalt have a slight advantage in the form of less weight (about 200 lbs) and a lower center of gravity.

Cobalt: 2681 lb for the coupe

MS3: 3180 lb

Granted it will probably be heavier than 2681lb due to the performance enhancing bits, but I think it will still weigh substantially less than the MS3. I have not driven the Cobalt SS; nevertheless, I recall the auto press giving it good ratings for its balance and handling. In C&D's lightning lap, it even posted quicker times than the Mustang GT (although that's not saying much).

Only time will tell, but I think it will be a good contender performance-wise. Having said that, I will never buy one because I do not find its styling attractive. *^_^*

[Donas64]

that link sucks.

anyway, no way in hell it'll edge it out. what does it have 260hp? I'm guessing they both weigh about the same so their #s will be similar.

Personally, I've never cared for the cobalt's styling. I know they're trying to go for a 'corvette jr' thing with the taillights but... they just don't work. the rest of the car is so freakin blah it's not even funny. the design of the last gen cavalier, imo, was better. as far as the interior goes... craplastic abounds everywhere. in the end... formidable from a bang for the buck standpoint but... that's about it.

Thats the funniest thing I've read in a long time. The Cobalt SS looks leagues better than that old monstrosity.

[Donas64]

If I was single and wasn't looking to start a family in the next 2 years or so, I'd definatly consider a Cobalt SS/TC. As an overall package the MS3 is the superior car based on just fit and finish and utility alone. But face it, a lot of people still hate hatches and a lot of people still think the MS3 is fast, well built, full of utility, but ugly. A lot of folks will be drawn to a handsome looking coupe especially one thats ditched its LOOK AT ME wing and has an interior thats not a total disaster ala Caliber SRT-4.

If chevy doesn't screw this up somehow, they are gunna move a lot of units.

[CHICO2003]

Thats the funniest thing I've read in a long time. The Cobalt SS looks leagues better than that old monstrosity.


While I recounted my statement, I completely disagree with you on this. The Cobalt has a slight edge... but it's not nearly the improvement that one would expect or hope for. Look at the 2 side by side.... the similarties are astounding. Basically the same boring design. The only thing even slightly interesting about the Cobalt are the tail lights... but those are a love it/hate it type of thing and I personally hate em. The door handles give it a shred of style but that's about it. Everything else is about as ho-hum as can be.

While some cars are able to pull that type of subtley off... I'm not convinced this one does. Compare it to The new Eclipse... or even old eclipse. Or hell... even the freakin Tiburon! At least those cars have some personality.

Granted... this car, unlike those mentioned above, seems to at least have the performance part right and that's obviously most important. But come on Chevy! Would it have killed you to add a little style? Even the Ion Red Line looks better.

[Hikaru9]

But face it, a lot of people still hate hatches and a lot of people still think the MS3 is fast, well built, full of utility, but ugly.
If chevy doesn't screw this up somehow, they are gunna move a lot of units.

Hater~! haha j/k

I <3 hatches, but I understand I'm the minority in this nation.

Yeah... I don't think they'll have problems selling the Cobalt. Contrary to what people assume, even the current gen Cobalt SS actually got praised (by pubs) for its well-executed interior, fit and finish-wise. You really cannot compare it to the Crapolier (to whoever said he liked the Cavalier better). =p

[Sacrilicious]

the bottom line is that the cobalt ss is looking to be a very fun econo-rocket to drive, and if you're willing to settle with a lesser interior and fewer refinements in exchange for more performance, then this would be a very tempting choice.

now, i understand that many of us here stand by our ms3's because we believe we have the better overall package, but the fact of the matter is that there's plenty of people out there who could care less and just want the most boosted power and turning ability that the least amount of money can buy. for the same reason the srt4 neon did as well as it did, the cobalt ss stands to have a similar following when it releases. it might not be your cup of tea, but hell, SOMEONE will drink it, and LIKE it! ;o

[CHICO2003]

Hater~! haha j/k

I <3 hatches, but I understand I'm the minority in this nation.

Yeah... I don't think they'll have problems selling the Cobalt. Contrary to what people assume, even the current gen Cobalt SS actually got praised (by pubs) for its well-executed interior, fit and finish-wise. You really cannot compare it to the Crapolier (to whoever said he liked the Cavalier better). =p

I'm at work so I can't pull anything... but every review/comparro I read said the opposite. What pubs were these?

[protegeV]

yeah, I dont remember anyone praising the Cobalts interior...Maybe the Recaro seats, but thats it.

[Hikaru9]

I'm at work so I can't pull anything... but every review/comparro I read said the opposite. What pubs were these?

Just a few of the major publications... I wonder which ones you were reading.

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/8207/2005-chevrolet-cobalt.html


one more “universal small sedan,” but the interior is a mini-Lexus in its shapes, tones, and textures.

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/9020/chevrolet-cobalt-ss-supercharged.html


As it happens, it's astoundingly good—an Olympic long jump for GM, from dead last to the head of the class, right up front with the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic. You may have already gleaned that from our first Cobalt preview last July. We alluded to superb interior trim that mimics a Volkswagen's; the fancy hydroelastic rear-suspension bushings that pacify the ride (and cost GM $30 extra per car, according to vice-chairman Bob Lutz); a cabin soundproofed to luxury-car stillness by multiple door seals, molded acoustic pads, and 37 pounds of laminated "quiet steel"; and the Euro-'spensive Continental and Pirelli tires.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Chevrolet/review/2007-chevrolet-cobalt-ss-supercharged-road-test/3150/



The car has the looks, but given the choices sport compact buyers have, how does it drive?

Quite well, as it turns out. As we said, if you're a Cavalier owner the Cobalt will blow you away. It's a huge step forward. The chassis rigidity of the international Delta platform (also shared with that exciting new Saturn Astra) is leagues above the J-Body, and gives the car a nice, tight feeling. For the Cobalt application, the Delta underpinnings come alive; it seems perfectly suited to its sporty demeanor. People often talk about rigid structures as a vital starting point to tuning the car dynamically, and the Cobalt SS doesn't disappoint. Not only does it have a solid feel, but you feel just as confident tracking straight and true on the highway as you would on a twisty back road.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0502_2005_chevrolet_cobalt_ss_supercharged/steering_interior.html



Inside, standard leather seats, an A-pillar boost gauge, Pioneer seven-speaker stereo, and leather-wrapped shifter are pleasant surprises. And the optional Recaro seats are among the best at balancing sporty firmness and long-distance comfort.

[protegeV]

As it happens, it's astoundingly good—an Olympic long jump for GM, from dead last to the head of the class, right up front with the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic. You may have already gleaned that from our first Cobalt preview last July. We alluded to superb interior trim that mimics a Volkswagen's; the fancy hydroelastic rear-suspension bushings that pacify the ride (and cost GM $30 extra per car, according to vice-chairman Bob Lutz); a cabin soundproofed to luxury-car stillness by multiple door seals, molded acoustic pads, and 37 pounds of laminated "quiet steel"; and the Euro-'spensive Continental and Pirelli tires.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Chevrolet/review/2007-chevrolet-cobalt-ss-supercharged-road-test/3150/
thats a LOAD of CRAP. You know how many of those "fancy" bushings Ive had to replace for a symptom not unlike the MSP's "clunk"

[BluMicaR]

Nyah nyah, 5 gears. :P

Hehe.

[Donas64]

Hater~! haha j/k

I <3 hatches, but I understand I'm the minority in this nation.

Yeah... I don't think they'll have problems selling the Cobalt. Contrary to what people assume, even the current gen Cobalt SS actually got praised (by pubs) for its well-executed interior, fit and finish-wise. You really cannot compare it to the Crapolier (to whoever said he liked the Cavalier better). =p

Hey I drive a hatch myself (02 P5 owner here)

[clos561]

i went to test drive one when my friend was looking to buy a car and the interior was mainly plastic...it was the most expensive model and fully loaded and it had a whole lot of plastic inside which made hollow noise when i tapped on it...we have to wait for spec sheets on these things...this car could be less restrictive from the factory like the srt4 caliber which gives it the extra horsepower to match our cars...

[Hikaru9]

thats a LOAD of CRAP. You know how many of those "fancy" bushings Ive had to replace for a symptom not unlike the MSP's "clunk"

Tell that to Bob Lutz. Frankly, I don't even know what those bushing do as vehicle mechanics isn't one of my expertise. ^_^;;


Hey I drive a hatch myself (02 P5 owner here)

I knew that. =p Hatches rule! I wish we'd get more from the Europe.

[protegeV]

the worst part about all the PLASTIC is that if you touch the same spot more than once it seems the paint wears off...Most of the plastic on the SS is painted silver and the door pull handles, radio bezel, glove compartment trim, etc looks like CRAP after only 15Kmiles when its all black and silver from the paint wearing off. Its sad honestly.

[clos561]

we jsut gota relax and give this thing some time untill reviews start coming out..when they compare it to the ms3. being a coupe can reduce price right? less doors and less complicated frame which also contributes to the low weight

[protegeV]

we jsut gota relax and give this thing some time untill reviews start coming out..when they compare it to the ms3. being a coupe can reduce price right? less doors and less complicated frame which also contributes to the low weight
usually frame rigidity and extra bracing is a concern on coupes...Case in point the third gen Saturn SC2 weighed significantly more than the SL2 sedan.

I think it would be best to wait till the car is actually available for sale. I'll be looking for it coming off the truck soon hopefully.

[clos561]

and all this talk about the ring time..there is no proof yet and its not official..we got a guy that video taped himself driving and ran the time

[chacon101]

Sorry if this offends anyone but just like the Srt4 Neon, no matter how fast they make it, it's still a Neon. Just like this car, I don't really care if it's really fast, I am not a fan of a boring car made to be not soo boring. It still just doesn't raise my pulse. That yellow car at the show was a very good effort though.

This is coming from a guy that never really liked any American car...except for a few cars that TOTALLY kick ass. The most affordable American cars are lame in my opinion. It's like a lot of them were MADE to be rental cars...

[CHICO2003]

Just a few of the major publications... I wonder which ones you were reading.

Wow... you really went through a lot of trouble... hope it was worth it.



http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/8207/2005-chevrolet-cobalt.html
one more “universal small sedan,” but the interior is a mini-Lexus in its shapes, tones, and textures.


Dude... you serious? This article came out in 2004 and is a 'preview'. more on that later...



http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/9020/chevrolet-cobalt-ss-supercharged.html
As it happens, it's astoundingly good—an Olympic long jump for GM, from dead last to the head of the class, right up front with the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic. You may have already gleaned that from our first Cobalt preview last July. We alluded to superb interior trim that mimics a Volkswagen's; the fancy hydroelastic rear-suspension bushings that pacify the ride (and cost GM $30 extra per car, according to vice-chairman Bob Lutz); a cabin soundproofed to luxury-car stillness by multiple door seals, molded acoustic pads, and 37 pounds of laminated "quiet steel"; and the Euro-'spensive Continental and Pirelli tires.




Same thing here... just a year newer and the article is actually focused on the SS model




http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Chevrolet/review/2007-chevrolet-cobalt-ss-supercharged-road-test/3150/



The car has the looks, but given the choices sport compact buyers have, how does it drive?

Quite well, as it turns out. As we said, if you're a Cavalier owner the Cobalt will blow you away. It's a huge step forward. The chassis rigidity of the international Delta platform (also shared with that exciting new Saturn Astra) is leagues above the J-Body, and gives the car a nice, tight feeling. For the Cobalt application, the Delta underpinnings come alive; it seems perfectly suited to its sporty demeanor. People often talk about rigid structures as a vital starting point to tuning the car dynamically, and the Cobalt SS doesn't disappoint. Not only does it have a solid feel, but you feel just as confident tracking straight and true on the highway as you would on a twisty back road.



A decent article... from a decent publication. but let's get back to the point here. nobody's faulting its performance capabilities or chassis rigidity. the argument was based on its low rent interior and shoddy build quality. show me what part of the quote you pasted above addresses this.




http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0502_2005_chevrolet_cobalt_ss_supercharged/steering_interior.html

Inside, standard leather seats, an A-pillar boost gauge, Pioneer seven-speaker stereo, and leather-wrapped shifter are pleasant surprises. And the optional Recaro seats are among the best at balancing sporty firmness and long-distance comfort.

This one takes the cake... funny how you left the last sentence of the quote above off.

Maybe it's because the actual paragraph reads...

Inside, standard leather seats, an A-pillar boost gauge, Pioneer seven-speaker stereo, and leather-wrapped shifter are pleasant surprises. And the optional Recaro seats are among the best at balancing sporty firmness and long-distance comfort. But interior plastic, though better than Cavaliers of old, is hard and hollow and has a way to go to match lofty Japanese car standards.



Anyway... nice try but that was rather weak.


The thing about 'previews' is that (contrary to what some people infer) they're not actually reviews. At best, the writers spend a minimal amount of time in and around the vehicle while the PR guy/gal from the mfg chirps in their ear. At worst... they merely echo the sentiments of the mfg thus making it nothing more than a psuedo-advertisment... usually ending the (all too glowing) article with "while things seem promising, we'll hold out our final judgement until after a full review."

Regardless of that... here's one of the articles I was referring to.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=117762

It goes from worst to best... so you won't have to scroll long to find the Cobalt. (it finished in last place) The MS3 on the other hand... yeah, it was 1st.

Here's a portion of the article... note, I didn't chop it up to make my case.

"Unfortunately, there's still a lot of the worst of GM in the Cobalt SS Supercharged. This short-coupled coupe offers the least usable passenger package in the group, and its interior materials (aside from the Recaro seats) are far below the quality level set by the other contenders. The double-throwdown, combat-style rear wing just shows you that a styling cliché can't disguise a weak people package. Add it all up and despite the Chevy's encouraging performance, it lacks the refinement and utility necessary to compete here."

[clos561]

owned(bicker)

[Hikaru9]

Wow... you really went through a lot of trouble... hope it was worth it.


Not much trouble at all. (google) is your friend. It looks like you really went to a lot of trouble though. I understand this is a Mazda forum, and I do like my MS3. What cracks me up is how far some would go sometimes to put down other cars and any (however slight it might be) praise for the non-Mazda products. I guess that's just the nature of the forums. *^_^*

[CHICO2003]

Not much trouble at all. (google) is your friend.

Telling everyone to google the Cobalt and read up on the reviews is one thing... pasting 4 separate links of articles you obviously read (how else could you have cut and past the part that backs up your claim?) is another.


It looks like you really went to a lot of trouble though.

It took me a few minutes... I won't deny it. But I felt it had to be done. Sometimes the truth is more important than a few minutes worth of time. Besides... my boss is out today so the inmates are running the asylum.



I understand this is a Mazda forum, and I do like my MS3. What cracks me up is how far some would go sometimes to put down other cars and any (however slight it might be) praise for the non-Mazda products. I guess that's just the nature of the forums. *^_^*

Nobody's going out of their way to put the Cobalt down. What I like about this forum so much is the fact that most of the people seem to be rather level headed and not nearly as full of bias as other boards. So far, the general consensus appears to be that the Cobalt kicks ass in terms of performance/handling... but, other than the seats, lacks in interior refinement. Looks are subjective so we'll leave that out of the equation. reliability? well... we'll just have to see. Let's just hope for Cobalt owners that the past doesn't reflect the future.

[tsunami]

from what i can tell this is still civil so lets keep the discussion that way...

[CHICO2003]

I'm about to make it even more civil... Saw one the other day at a local dealership. Silver, tinted, no wing... actually looked halfway decent. I looked inside and, though the seats look great, I doubt I could live with that classic GM interior... but for $16k (only has 8900 miles on it too!) it's one hell of a deal.

[Sacrilicious]

wait...what model of the cobalt did you see, chico?

[protegeV]

sounds like SS S/Ced

[CHICO2003]

Ss

[ccann26]

just layed down 261 fwhp on a mustang dyno today my mods : mazdaspeed cai
I think this speed3 is plenty mod friendly can't wait to see what the new cam fuel pump can do..

BTW i'm at 17,500 miles

(cabpatch)

[protegeV]

just layed down 261 fwhp on a mustang dyno today my mods : mazdaspeed cai
I think this speed3 is plenty mod friendly can't wait to see what the new cam fuel pump can do..

BTW i'm at 17,500 miles

(cabpatch)
um...wrong thread?(braindead

[Sacrilicious]

ya, 16k on 9k miles suggests that new will be very affordable! =D

[CHICO2003]

This should be an easy one...

"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

[Nachtsturm]

The 06 SS/SC weighed in at 2991, I would be willing to bet money the new one will come in near that weight or even a tad over.

I weighed my mazdaspeed 3 at the track, with 3/4 tank of fuel, nothing taken out at all. It came in at 3130.

And as far as the modability of the ECO turbo...

Look at the GXP boards, people with intake, exhaust, and and upgraded i/c are putting down 220's on a dynojet. I have read that the BSR flash/tune is good for 30whp.

I think our MS3's liking to mods will overcome the Cobalts weight advantage...Biggest advantage to the Cobalt will be the 5 speed and not losing power on the top end resulting in short shifting.

[Rotary_Powered]

At sema GM already announced a stage 2 kit that puts the GXP at 300hp.

[clos561]

the supercharged cobalts are selling cheap because they are trying to get them off the lot... makes sense with the new faster turbo version right around the corner.



And that stage 2 is probably crank hp and the price of that is probably more than what it takes for us to get the same hp if not close to double the gains...with just intake ms3 puts down 250 whp average which is a 300 dollar mod.