Built Transmission

[MSPHXC]

Well I blew my clutch about 2 weeks ago, so i figure since im gonna be in the tranny might as well make it a bit stonger. Found a couple of kits on protege garage. Searched all over this forum and found some stuff bout transmissions but it seems like the threads would end as people lost interest or something. But im looking to weld my lsd, and was wondering if there is anything i should replace in the tranny that might fail under high horsepower.

[DH Motorsports]

Everything... honestly. Mainly gears, but be prepared to spend thousands.

[Speed3.5]

its tough to predict what not is gonna break on FS-DE tranny parts when you talking about high HP's.
I guess do you math and change as much as you can but unless you go custom no one has been "perfectly" happy with any upgrades/changes that are around for our tranny except Quaife LSD.

you're call

[sephiroth]

the problem with the g-series transmission is that they're honestly not built for the kind of power that most people punish them with. You can buy beefed up gears, but once you do that the bottleneck just moves to another area of the transmission that breaks even sooner. In order to acutaly "build" the G series to withstand some serious torture, an entire re-build with improved parts is the best and safest solution, which means thousands in custom parts.

[MSPHXC]

Darn. I was hopin i could just replace some parts without giving an arm or a leg for it. To give you guys an idea im hopin to push 300-350 hp, yes i know thats a wide range but oh well haha. To answer any future questions my engine does have forged internals. Have you guys heard from anyone that pushes above 300hp mentioning any tranny problems or anything?

[twistiert]

ive seen people push 350 to the wheel with stock gears and clutch is it good no but it handled it honestly weld the lsd get a stage 2 clutch I like the spec one and if you have spare money get the gtx gears that would be your best bang for the buck

[122 Vega]

It all really depends on how you drive. stock gears shouldn't be a problem if you aren't slamming them.I've put 400 hp through a stock Chevrolet Vega 5 speed before then broke the same trans behind a 150 hp cosworth 4 cylinder, but of course I was punishing it for lack of power. Once the gears are engaged they're fine. There are a lot of variables though. If you run slicks, the chances of breaking it are higher. A lot of people have broken the stock LSD with stock or near stock motors. Definitely put a Quaiffe in it if you're going to the trouble of tearing it apart. I'd only switch to the GTX gears if you want the ratio change. And don't waste the time of replacing the clutch with a stock piece unless you have to. Run good fluids in it and change it often you should be fine.

Britt

[DH Motorsports]

Stock gears will simply start to shear teeth off without a trans cooler about 300-350whp.

[505zoom]

...I'd only switch to the GTX gears if you want the ratio change...

Ratio is only different in 5th gear. 3rd and 4th GTX is stronger than our stock stuff.

If you have the coin, go with a full set of custom gears and forks with a quaiffe... but the GTX 3rd, 4th, and 5th + welded msp diff should hold up pretty good for that power level. Might want to got with a custom set of forks though, 3rd and 4th are puss.

[mspHtown]

we need to find a company to do a group buy on a built transmission. the prices are absolutely ridiculous.

[daedalus]

Welded LSD + GTX 3,4,5 = Good for 99% of people.

Keep in mind here most likely if your pushing 300-350whp you should be breaking traction before you get enough load on the gears themselves to strip.

So stay away from the drag slicks and you should be ok with that setup. And it should be pretty damn inexpensive.

[mspHtown]

Welded LSD + GTX 3,4,5 = Good for 99% of people.

Keep in mind here most likely if your pushing 300-350whp you should be breaking traction before you get enough load on the gears themselves to strip.

So stay away from the drag slicks and you should be ok with that setup. And it should be pretty damn inexpensive.

pretty inexpensive... i jsut bought 3rd and 5th gear from pg for 450. you cant buy 4th gear anymore so you have to find it used and hope its not fucked up. then you have to pay to get the lsd welded. you have to have a press or you cannot swap the gears. you also have to pay for labor if you do not do the disassembly and reinstall yourself. it gets expensive.

[Kooldino]

I've been building transmissions for customers lately. It's not a fun job, but I may be offering some built up trannies in the future. Parts aren't cheap though.

[daedalus]

pretty inexpensive... i jsut bought 3rd and 5th gear from pg for 450. you cant buy 4th gear anymore so you have to find it used and hope its not fucked up. then you have to pay to get the lsd welded. you have to have a press or you cannot swap the gears. you also have to pay for labor if you do not do the disassembly and reinstall yourself. it gets expensive.

I agree its expensive, but in relative comparison to other cars its very cheap. All of those parts and labor added up should still be under a grand or so... which when it comes to built transmissions is just a drop in the bucket. Upgraded Subbie/Evo trannies are easily 5 grand.

[nvmsp]

Or you could just stop launching your cars all the time.(burnout)

[MSPHXC]

Yeah, im lookin at that pg kit with the lsd in it. Is that better than our stock lsd? Also, how much would labor cost to put in those gears? I was told by a guy at work that it cost a lot to have transmission work done, because im hopin i can get a new clutch, weld lsd, and gears put in for under $2,000.

[MSPHXC]

we need to find a company to do a group buy on a built transmission. the prices are absolutely ridiculous.

yeah, I definently agree!!

p.s. How do you like that exedy stage 1 clutch?

[mspHtown]

yeah, I definently agree!!

p.s. How do you like that exedy stage 1 clutch?

its going in over the christmas holidays. so hopefully i will love it!

[MSPHXC]

So is the stock lsd as strong as the quaife if i were to weld it?

[Maxx Mazda]

I built my tranny last year. (Welded LSD, GTX 3rd, 4th, 5th, beefier forks, revised synchros, msp clutch fork / pin, FC throwout bearing, etc) and I still chewed my tranny up at 100MPH right near the end of the quarter...

It's expensive, but I can't help but think it would have failed MUCH sooner had I not built it.

FWIW 22psi.

[Maxx Mazda]

So is the stock lsd as strong as the quaife if i were to weld it?

No. The Quaife is constructed completely differently. It's the actual guts of the LSd that are stronger, not jsut the ring gear and pins.

[Maxx Mazda]

So is the stock lsd as strong as the quaife if i were to weld it?

No. The Quaife is constructed completely differently. It's the actual guts of the LSd that are stronger, not jsut the ring gear and pins. Actually, don't you keep the stock ring gear?

[JDM Sam]

Yeah, you drill out the stock ring gear and bolt it to the quaife using ARP bolts.

[Maxx Mazda]

Yeah, you drill out the stock ring gear and bolt it to the quaife using ARP bolts.

Figured as much. Thanks!

[ItsSlow]

Upgraded Subbie/Evo trannies are easily 5 grand.

Actually they're not that expensive for an Evo.. TRE (www.teamrip.com) rebuilds Evo transmissions for WAY less than 5k..

[cosmo420]

too bad there is no automatics that can handle power in our cars along with a stall speed converter I'd bet it would rip, and one would not worry about missing a gear

[Bala]

too bad there is no automatics that can handle power in our cars along with a stall speed converter I'd bet it would rip, and one would not worry about missing a gear

There's 2-3 shops putting out built autos for our rides ;) : Here's one - http://www.lentechautomatics.com/4f27ehome.html

[cosmo420]

There's 2-3 shops putting out built autos for our rides ;) : Here's one - http://www.lentechautomatics.com/4f27ehome.html
OMFG! nice find I always wondered what it would feel like w/ an auto this is gold, thanks!
You mentioned more?

[sephiroth]

There's 2-3 shops putting out built autos for our rides ;) : Here's one - http://www.lentechautomatics.com/4f27ehome.html

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0311mm_focus/index.html


this is a re-build of a focus, but they use the same tranny we do.

[Bala]

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0311mm_focus/index.html


this is a re-build of a focus, but they use the same tranny we do.

Good find - here's a third: http://www.levelten.com/ (jacked)

[DeadGeneration]

I thought welded differentials were for ricers with no money for real parts? (flame)

[orng1]

Your talking aboout welding an open diff and converting it to fully locked. Their welding over the crappy spot welds to reinforce it.

[LordWorm]

why not swap out to a stronger gearbox with an adapter plate? something off the side of a honda K series motor - or a toyota gearbox.

An engineer should have no trouble making an adapter plate - you'd probably need custom shafts and so on, but you'd end up with something fairly bullet proof.

I've seen and heard of the results of hardening the G series trans, and everytime you strengthen one thing, something else breaks.... its a constant battle.... all the money poured into trying to harden something that seems to always want to break could be put into converting the tranmission over to something which is more suited to taking alot of horse power....

[avarela86]

why not swap out to a stronger gearbox with an adapter plate? something off the side of a honda K series motor - or a toyota gearbox.

An engineer should have no trouble making an adapter plate - you'd probably need custom shafts and so on, but you'd end up with something fairly bullet proof.

I've seen and heard of the results of hardening the G series trans, and everytime you strengthen one thing, something else breaks.... its a constant battle.... all the money poured into trying to harden something that seems to always want to break could be put into converting the tranmission over to something which is more suited to taking alot of horse power....

Good idea...didn't know you could do that. I heard from a good source that the forks inside a Mazda3 are very similar to the Protege trannies but importantly are thicker and can be made to work with a little work. In the end though...our trannies are garbage. I've been through 3 in 2 years(drive2).

[LordWorm]

Good idea...didn't know you could do that. I heard from a good source that the forks inside a Mazda3 are very similar to the Protege trannies but importantly are thicker and can be made to work with a little work. In the end though...our trannies are garbage. I've been through 3 in 2 years(drive2).

every attempt at hardening hte box i've heard about has ended in tears. I've even heard of extensive bearing mods to try and stop shaft flex, resulting in cataclysmic failure of the entire gearbox.

Best to not use anything mazda :p

swapping to foreign gearboxes is an old school hot rod technique... they'll often strap GM gearboxes to ford motors, etc. In theory, its the same for a transaxle.

you need an adapter plate which bolts to the block, and allows the box to bolt to the adapter... you'll need custom drive shafts to get the spines all right and so forth, and you'll need to do something with your shifter (if going to cable shifter, its easy....solid you'd need some modding) - then theres the flywheel, clutch, starter, gearbox side engine mount etc...and probably a handful of other bits and pieces i haven't thought about that need to be customised or modified - but the point is, it can be done, and it would probably be cheaper than building a G series only to have it blow up and force you to build another one.

It also opens up a whole range of possibilities for gears - Liberties make honda gear sets which are tough as nails, and theres probably a half a dozen diffs to chose from - as well as the prospect of nicer gear ratios etc.

[mspHtown]

every attempt at hardening hte box i've heard about has ended in tears. I've even heard of extensive bearing mods to try and stop shaft flex, resulting in cataclysmic failure of the entire gearbox.

Best to not use anything mazda :p

swapping to foreign gearboxes is an old school hot rod technique... they'll often strap GM gearboxes to ford motors, etc. In theory, its the same for a transaxle.

you need an adapter plate which bolts to the block, and allows the box to bolt to the adapter... you'll need custom drive shafts to get the spines all right and so forth, and you'll need to do something with your shifter (if going to cable shifter, its easy....solid you'd need some modding) - then theres the flywheel, clutch, starter, gearbox side engine mount etc...and probably a handful of other bits and pieces i haven't thought about that need to be customised or modified - but the point is, it can be done, and it would probably be cheaper than building a G series only to have it blow up and force you to build another one.

It also opens up a whole range of possibilities for gears - Liberties make honda gear sets which are tough as nails, and theres probably a half a dozen diffs to chose from - as well as the prospect of nicer gear ratios etc.


you should look into this and get something going!

[LordWorm]

you should look into this and get something going!

Actually, its not that hard to look into it yourself :)

start by ringing up some hot rod shops, and see if they will assist in creating a "gearbox adapter plate/ring" for a transaxle gearbox.

Then you need to research a transmission that is tough as nails. Theres a guy in australia with a BPT powered mazda famillia wagon who runs a toyota MR2 turbo gearbox in his car....its 5th gear is as thick as our first gears :P

Then you'll need to speak to an engineer about the drive line modifications that will need to be done...

it really needn't be that hard, but it would certainly be more difficult than just making an adapter ring - which is why you're not going to find any "kits" in the near future ;)

[low_psi]

Adapting another manufacturer's tranny really isn't that difficult, just takes some know how as LordWorm has stated. The main problem is people want a cheap solution. Most people don't want to spend 3K+, but its going to take that kind of money to have a reliable gearbox that can handle decent power.

If the sub 300whp World Challenge cars couldn't keep a Mazda tranny together, chances are most people can't afford to keep a daily driven Mazda tranny alive.

Used Xtracs are available for around 7K USD I hear :)

[LordWorm]

Adapting another manufacturer's tranny really isn't that difficult, just takes some know how as LordWorm has stated. The main problem is people want a cheap solution. Most people don't want to spend 3K+, but its going to take that kind of money to have a reliable gearbox that can handle decent power.

If the sub 300whp World Challenge cars couldn't keep a Mazda tranny together, chances are most people can't afford to keep a daily driven Mazda tranny alive.

Used Xtracs are available for around 7K USD I hear :)

yeah, xtrac is overkill though (and probably not nice to drive as a daily!)

Best bet is something honda (because of the aftermarket gear support, probably the best bet), or toyota (bullet proof, tough as nails will put up with more HP than you are likely to get out of a FSDE running pump gas), but there may be others.....

Thing is that i cant understand, is people wont spend the money on a box conversion, but will happilly kill 2 or 3 or 4 gearboxes, that all have mods to make them stronger - the total amount spent on the g-series boxes would easilly surpass the one off cost of converting to something you wont ever need to worry about, and even if it did go bung has far more after market support and is far cheaper to keep going.....