AFC R4 Software leaves a lot to be desired

[yashart_mp3]

Blah....am I the only one that thinks the software has a lot of a room for improvement?

1) The biggest annoyance to me is the fact that you cannot permanently change the cell sizes. The current cell sizes cutoff the first number of the RPM column, so you have no idea what RPM you are looking at..... No problem click->drag and enlarge it so that you can see the entire numerical value. But once you click anywhere else, it defaults right back to how it was before. Same thing goes with the VAC/PSI row... And actually, for all the cells its that way. You cannot read what each cells says, the numbering is too big for the cell, so you can only see bottom half of the numbers!

2) You cannot resize the entire chart/cells to fill the screen! I have to scroll from left to right, to watch my "trace" cursor/cell. (The blue box that shows you real-time what rpm/psi you are at). You can use the real time gauges......

3) The real time gauges suck. Not only are the actual gauges useless, they look as if they are from an Atari game. You also cannot set a warning max/min , you just have to watch closely.

4) You can't write to the maps while driving! I have to turn the car off to load /write a new map to the ecu. My emanage could do it on the fly, without any issues.

5) Writing to the ECU is incredibly slow. It takes about 2 minutes from start to finish.... Why?

Im sure there are other things...these are just my first impressions after a day of playing with the software/ tuning.

Maybe it is true...you get what you pay for. Or maybe I have been spoiled with other EMS systems (not only pertaining to the MSP)...but I can hardly consider the AFC, engine management...... I have no idea what my injector duty cycle is, what the MAF voltage is at, etc..... This "EMS" is just too basic to do any real tuning. The datalogging capabilities are nice, and are pretty much the only way to tune this thing. Tuning on the fly is damn near impossible/ a pain in the ass.

[1moreMPH]

i mean, aside from the chart issues which i agree seems dumb, you had to know most of that stuff before you got it.. It seems to be a very basic unit that only adjusts the a/f ratio by rpm right? that's pretty much it. i think it's meant for just general application where you need to lean out/enrich the engine a bit for certain situations for slightly more power and smoother ride. no timing or anything fancy...

about the chart stuff, the unichip's charts aren't great either. It's mildly erratic in some parts and doesn't give any units in others, so it's more or less guesswork. And uploading a new map takes a minute or two as well, you can't do it on the fly.

[terbow]

Its not advertised as Engine Management. Its a signal calibrator.

I agree on 1-2. I wish the cells were able to be expanded.

for point 3: Any software driven Gauge is going to have some latency, I personally wouldnt trust them anyhow. Nor are they really needed so use real gauges if you want to monitor.

for point 4: I agree its annoying but really, if your alone you shouldnt be doing that anyhow. Its unsafe. Do a run, datalog, adjust and try again. You can tune it within 2 hrs tops.

For point 5: Its not engine management, therefore its not going to have all the features of other units. Its probably just writing to a Flash Rom, slow but keeps costs down. For the price it cant be touched.

Why do you need to know Injector Duty Cycle or Maf Voltage. The Maf is clamped so thats irrelavent. Again, its a signal calibrator, its not meant to run large injectors or go above 12 psi. Since its modifies signals it can only change the voltage so much before the ecu will freak out. Therefore you probably can only change the AFR about a point to a point and a half. I believe it works similar to MPI's 02 tuning. Injector duty cycle is irrelevant. If your exceeding the stock injectors you probably need a different, more capable unit.

I think if you see the unit for what it does/costs it will change your opinion of it.

[terbow]

It does it by RPM and Boost. Which other piggys dont. It really works well. Cause instead of doing RPM vs TPS, when u hit 1 psi it starts, cause at a certain RPM you might not be at a certain PSI.


i mean, aside from the chart issues which i agree seems dumb, you had to know most of that stuff before you got it.. It seems to be a very basic unit that only adjusts the a/f ratio by rpm right? that's pretty much it. i think it's meant for just general application where you need to lean out/enrich the engine a bit for certain situations for slightly more power and smoother ride. no timing or anything fancy...

[Blake]

1moremph
^^make me a sig

yashart, what he said is entirely correct, it is a basic unit, meant to do a basic thing. Its dos based no?

[1moreMPH]

It does it by RPM and Boost. Which other piggys dont. It really works well. Cause instead of doing RPM vs TPS, when u hit 1 psi it starts, cause at a certain RPM you might not be at a certain PSI.

touche. and i agree for the price, you really can't beat it for moderate power and ease.

blake -- gimme some pics and i'll see what i can do. what do you want? (PM me)

[yashart_mp3]

Whoa guys, no need to take the defensive side... I was simply saying that I am not impressed with the software....

I guess its just a huge step down the the e-manage, which was a nightmare with connectivity, but was a piggyback (just like this) that had a slew of better features. The e-manage is right around the same price as well.....


In general terms, the AFC is considered an EMS. Modifyng the signals to the ecu, in an attempt to give the user control over fuel (and the newer units with timing) makes it a form of engine management.... Just like the e-manage and the MPI, they all alter the signals going to the ECU.... and they are all engine management systems. If you want to get into Full standalone engine management software, then thats a whole different topic....


I agree with most of what you guys had to say. I'm not bashing the unit, I am just saying that I am disappointed with the software. It is extremely basic, which is not what I was expecting. For the price, I guess its not bad. It does what it is supposed to... Its like a 19" black and white tube television... It gets the job done, but it is less than favorable.

And no, I don't tune while driving. I do datalogs, pull over, make changes, upload, get back on the road, do more datalogs, etc.... Thats only if I must. Most tuning sessions are me tuning with my buddy driving the car.

Regarding the gauges, I'm referring to them for real time tuning. I mentioned nothing about latency, I was simply saying that they suck. What good is a gauge with no numbers or values on the dial? For real time tuning, (when you can write directly to the map while the car is on) its a great feature to have. You can set a warning for max/low, and display peaks ....which is very useful when trying to tune, and see boost spikes, rather than opening excel and messing with charts. Why should I need to reference real gauges if my EMS see's the same data?

And lets please not compare this to the unichip. You cant manually tune the unichip which is why i tossed that setup a long time ago.

Injector duty cycle is always good to know.... You can see if your injectors are close to being maxed out at any rpm or boost level.... Im running a set of custom cams and im sure im closed to being maxed out. I'd rather know what the duty cycle is, rather than keep raising values and seeing no change.... Having injectors stuck open = bad... MAF Voltage is the same, I want to know if I close to maxing out the MAF in the winter time. It is not uncommon for people to hit fuel cut in the winter with the AFC. With the e-manage, I could tell the ECU where to clamp the MAF voltage, and tune accordingly.... I guess this is just a feature I miss as well.

And if I am maxing out my injectors, I can always upgrade to 440's.... not a more capable unit. Like I said, these are just my first impressions

Once again, the unit works and does what it is advertised to do. I just expected more from a unit that so many people rave about. I guess I keep forgetting that most people are noobs when it comes to this kind of stuff, so the less they know/see/can touch, the better

[terbow]

im still reading, but just wanted to point out i wasnt being defensive in the least.

[yashart_mp3]

im still reading, but just wanted to point out i wasnt being defensive in the least.

:) sorry buddy, rough morning... I'm a bit on the cranky side

[Blake]

Stop It

[terbow]

:) sorry buddy, rough morning... I'm a bit on the cranky side

its ok.

I wrote a response to each point u made, but in the end i think, as you said your spoiled on a unit with more features. Its just preference and im not going to sit here and argue with you cause really theres no point, we would be just argueing about our own preferences lol.

To answer your question Simply, Yes its no frills. But if it keeps the cost down its worth it. Its by no means incomplete so it is what it is i guess.

The way it works as i mentioned, you can only get so much out of it anyhow (like MPI 02 Tuning), Its just meant to be thrown in and get the car tuned for a low cost. I do agree on some points but the things you miss arent really needed for its application. Yea it would be nice to adjust MAF Clamp, or see injector duty but its really not essential in my opinion, cause i bet you can get ur car tuned just fine without them. More options would just drive the cost up.

I wouldnt say its really like a B&W tv, its more like an mp3 player with a 120GB drive but no screen under 50 bucks. Yea it sucks u cant see the song list but it holds all the songs u could want and thats all you want it for.

The unit is raved about cause you can throw it in, makes a big difference and you can tune it if you have to.

I guess i didnt have high expectations for the software so im not dissapointed (except not having v2 cause autometer nexus widebands dont datalog to the pc). You drive a protege, lower your expectations damnit ;)

[Blake]

but...but we <3 our proteges.

[jeffmsp]

pretty sure it can monitor MAF readings, its been a while since ive used a v1 or v2 but i am pretty sure i datalogged the maf. If not cant you just hook it into aux1? for the price i think you get a pretty good deal. helped me out a ton when I used the v1 on my old setup, i built my own device to control my new setup. for tuning I just did a pull in 4th , watched the wb02 during the run. Made changes to the map, turned off car, uploaded then went for another pull. Seemed to work fine for me, tuned the car in about an hour on the street. Too bad I had i didnt have it wb tuned for long, i just ran the stock calibration for the most part .

[1moreMPH]

we do?

[yashart_mp3]

no throttle position.... :(

and we can't export the data logs to an excel spreadsheet?!!??!? (rant)

[1moreMPH]

why did you ditch the emanage (i think that's what you had?) anyways? If you had it working, isn't that a fantastic unit? just curious.

[Fudgie]

Buy a zietronix wb set-up for $285 and you can log everything you want and then some. I've had zero problems with the afc and its software. Built engine, all the bolt ons , running 14 psi w/ meth and the afc has worked flawlessly. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it just plan works, and the user can tune it. To me, thats worth its weight in gold.

[Fudgie]

If you want to tune to maf voltage- go to settings and change it to "voltage" as opposed to vacuum/ pressure.

[terbow]

no throttle position.... :(

and we can't export the data logs to an excel spreadsheet?!!??!? (rant)

yes u can. whose the newb now ;)

[yashart_mp3]

yes u can. whose the newb now ;)

show me the way obi-won.... your my only hope!

in all seriousness, when i copy and paste my datalogs into excel, I cant make sense of the values. I get set of columns labeled C1-C9, and the values in each don't correspond to anything that was logged.

[terbow]

yea i had the same problem its just labeled wierd. i wrote what they are on the laptop ill go get it tonight for you. there are definately some useless ones haha. what version you have 1 or 2?

[yashart_mp3]

I have version 2.... The numbers that appear after I paste it in excel are rather random. I get random numbers ranging from 0 to 160, none of which make any sense, in any order. I really think that the numbers have to be entered into some kind of formula to return to their original values.

ps - thanks! I appreciate the help

[terbow]

yea i saw the same thing and somehow i figured out what tehy were. i was having a smart moment i think.

if i cant figure it out again ill call mark at split sec. he helped me last time.

[talontsi97]

Sorry to hear that you wernt that happy with it. Looking forward to getting my v2 in a few weeks. I dont think im looking for as much out of it as you so i guess i should be happy with it.
Will it log a aem wideband? I thought it did but coulda swore i saw a post saying it didnt.
Were in philly are you located? We should eventually meet up or get the local guys together one day. Maybe you can help me tune mine.

[jamesk]

Its not advertised as Engine Management. Its a signal calibrator.




so calling it a signal calibrator gives it an excuss not to compare to another afc or piggyback system? thats bs, its another name for a afc controller.

i have bought this before for my NA problems, and i had nothing but problems, BUT, i dont think it was the afc's fault. i have windows vista on my laptop and i think it was giving me seral connection problems. so, im willing to purchase it again later in the future and give it a second shot.

there were some things i did not like about it. for one, the thing looked like someone made it in their garage. there wasent even a damn led lightbuilb just to tell me if the thing was on. that would of been helpful.

i paid almost $400.00 for mine, and thats alot of money for just a "signal Calibrator". i dont think the quality of the product is near $400.00. comparing it to other afc's, including the new Aem piggyback, its not worth it.

and its not like your paying for the name either, i mean, who the hell is split second, lol. and you had to unscrew that little black box to get to the seral connector with no led or nothing?

id say a fair price for it is $200.00, and $275.00 with data logging.

[jamesk]

Sorry to hear that you wernt that happy with it. Looking forward to getting my v2 in a few weeks. I dont think im looking for as much out of it as you so i guess i should be happy with it.
Will it log a aem wideband? I thought it did but coulda swore i saw a post saying it didnt.
Were in philly are you located? We should eventually meet up or get the local guys together one day. Maybe you can help me tune mine.

yea you can log it in. i believe its the white wire from the wideband to any of the orange ones. the white wire is the voltage readings it sends to the orange ones. then you look at those readings on the R4 software.

in your instuction manual of the aem wideband, it has charts for what airfuel ratio to what voltage your getting.

the aem wideband is a really nice kit. i loved the box it came in and how nice it was package and all. i really like those little detaiils.

[terbow]

Whoa there cowboy.

I was stating its not advertised as a unit with a million features. Its hardly advertised at all as a matter of fact. Who said it cant be compared? I never said that. Im sayin for the price, dont complain. Its got everything you need to tune the car. Ive owned every piggyback made specifically for this car and it works better out of box than any of them. No need to setup a base map, no running like crap or twitchy performance. I speak from experience. You obviously do not.

Yashart was complaining that the software isnt as polished. Thats fine but id rather pay less of a premium to have the cost driven down.

Im sorrry your sore on the price, i think it is worth it. ive used others and it works great, and its priced great. Yea its just some basic electrical comoponents but what other ems cost that little and work? oh wait none. So i dont see any validity to your arguement.

If you dont like it, spend more. Or better yet, make your own.What else can i say.

If you or anyone cant tune the car with the afc then complain about how crappy it is then thats not my fault, or split seconds, maybe hand the keys over to someone who knows what their doing.


so calling it a signal calibrator gives it an excuss not to compare to another afc or piggyback system? thats bs, its another name for a afc controller.

i have bought this before for my NA problems, and i had nothing but problems, BUT, i dont think it was the afc's fault. i have windows vista on my laptop and i think it was giving me seral connection problems. so, im willing to purchase it again later in the future and give it a second shot.

there were some things i did not like about it. for one, the thing looked like someone made it in their garage. there wasent even a damn led lightbuilb just to tell me if the thing was on. that would of been helpful.

i paid almost $400.00 for mine, and thats alot of money for just a "signal Calibrator". i dont think the quality of the product is near $400.00. comparing it to other afc's, including the new Aem piggyback, its not worth it.

and its not like your paying for the name either, i mean, who the hell is split second, lol. and you had to unscrew that little black box to get to the seral connector with no led or nothing?

id say a fair price for it is $200.00, and $275.00 with data logging.

[jamesk]

yea exactly, it works to the bare minimum, that was the problem. it felt like i was paying full price for something that work good to the bare minimum.

my installation was fine. the thing wasent even workng from the base map (all tens in the cells). i was having serial connections with vista and it would only connect when it felt like it.

ken warned me and said that might happen, so thank you for that ken, but the guys at splitsecond said it would of worked fine. id keep calling splitsecond and the guys would tell me something different on the phone every time i called. then they would tell me i didnt need the pink wire connected because i dont have a turbo. the pink wire was for a 02 sensor. the guy didnt know he was talking about.

there was so help support for this product. there was no quality to the product. its like buying a gutted out civic. its fast, but its a gutted out civic.

i would love for someone to stand in front of me with this product and point out all the features it has. honestly, theres nothing to it.

just because it works, that doesnt make it the only reason for people to buy it. theres more to something than it working.

[jamesk]

Its not advertised as Engine Management. Its a signal calibrator.

the guy was comparing it to his greddy e-manage and thats what you said to him

[terbow]

right. i didnt say it cant be compared to anything like you said. its just a signal calibrator. its not advertised anything like the other ones (features etc). I mean really if you want my opinion since ive used all 3 msp specific piggys, this one blows them away for opening it up, installing, and getting it tuned. Its so simple, it doesnt have frivelous crap thats not really needed. It has its limits , if your goin for more than 250whp i wouldnt use it, but i suppose you could if u had to. at that point id rather have more features. but thats another topic all together

i think everyone at Split second is an engineer. Theres really no point in talking to them ive talked to them, i know what you mean, haha.

So if something works, thats not a good enough reason to buy it? Sorry you lost me there.

Its not perfect, there will be bad units, that happens all the time. I would gladly show anyone its features but really, there arent many. It does what it does, and does it just fine for a low cost. What else can i say really.

I wouldnt say its like a gutted civic at all. Its like a base model car vs one loaded with options when your on a budget. Do you need power windows to roll the windows down? no, but its nice to have.

[jamesk]

well thats the personality i have. i would pick the car with the loaded options.

i know this sounds stupid, but are you still selling the afc, lol. i know i said all that, but it does work and i would like to buy it again because it seems like the most logical thing to buy for our cars. personally, i really wish the neo work for our cars but it doesnt. so this is the next best thing to rational.

[yashart_mp3]

what about that excel info? ;)

[terbow]

well thats the personality i have. i would pick the car with the loaded options.

i know this sounds stupid, but are you still selling the afc, lol. i know i said all that, but it does work and i would like to buy it again because it seems like the most logical thing to buy for our cars. personally, i really wish the neo work for our cars but it doesnt. so this is the next best thing to rational.

haha thats awesome lol yea i am. its 220.0 shipped in the thread but for u ill charge 400.00 ;) jk. theres a link in my sig.

[terbow]

what about that excel info? ;)

sorry i forgot, ill do it when i get home tonight. i get out at 8 EST

[low_psi]

The software does suck, but it was designed/written long ago. I noticed on my new comp the cell cropping doesn't occur. The writing is a slow process because a) its a serial port b) it writes a 2nd map, MAP B, even though there are no values sicne its a blank map. If it only wrote MAP A that you use, it'd be half the time :)

[crackerjakx]

sorry i forgot, ill do it when i get home tonight. i get out at 8 EST

excel info?? (smash)

[terbow]

didnt forget lol. i need a v2 run i only have v1. if someone wants to send me theirs ill look at it (i need your file with runs recorded in it).

[yashart_mp3]

here you, this is what I get when i copy and paste the datalog in excel....

[terbow]

here you? what am i a piece of meat or something lol

can u send me ur map so i can see the settings :) thanks

[yashart_mp3]

lol, ahh, my bad....should have been "here you go"

and here is my map.... now get to work!

[crackerjakx]

Any updates on this?

[yashart_mp3]

Nope, and I wouldn't expect anything soon.... at least from terbow anyway

[crackerjakx]

yash, I noticed you have readings on aux a,b,c,d... What are you using with these?

Trying to find ways to use em myself.

[Blake]

what happened to terbows sig and avatar...WTF

[bazooka joe]

what happened to terbows sig and avatar...WTF
(shrug)

[Captain KRM P5]

he has left the forums, thats about all there is to it

[turbolife]

he has left the forums, thats about all there is to it

What happened? He always made good posts

[Blake]

people are douche bags is what happened.

[turbolife]

people are douche bags is what happened.

Oh, sorry to hear that. He seemed like a good guy with a good amount of knowlege. His air-to-water setup was tits (humpleg)