With CPE Standback do you still need a fuel cut killer

[babz437]

Just wondering if these two are both necessary or if you can just get the Standback and have the same effect.

[ssinstaller]

The standback allows you to tune out the fuel cut..

[laloosh]

The standback allows you to tune out the fuel cut..

how? by not hitting 18psi or by actually doing something about it?

[BoostedSpd6]

how? by not hitting 18psi or by actually doing something about it?


well from what mike said in the other thread hes able to set where fuel cut happens like higher in the rpms but hes not able to totally get rid of it yet and that wont happen till we get a fuel solution.. but running the two things together would be a very bad thing.

[laloosh]

well from what mike said in the other thread hes able to set where fuel cut happens like higher in the rpms but hes not able to totally get rid of it yet and that wont happen till we get a fuel solution.. but running the two things together would be a very bad thing.

so pretty much it does nothing for fuel cut, it just doesnt boost high enough to hit it.

[BoostedSpd6]

it does push it furthur back into the rpm range mike said he hit it while racing but he never hit on once he was rlly tuned on the dyno... we just need fuel.. then it wont even be a problem. hes boosting safely all the way too redline at 17psi on the 76r

[Gandalf]

If you can't tune fuel cut out then you're not using the standback correctly. It has its own parameters to feed the ECU constant signals so it never sees fuel cut and you can program it to hit it's own fuel cut at any boost/MAF voltage you want. Keep trying.

[laloosh]

keep trying? i asked a simply question

[forrestang]

The standback will do at the very least what the ATP FCD will do.

There is a setting in the standback boost page called 'boost clip.'

What this does is allow you to set a boost number that the ECM will see. So if you wanted it to never see more than 13psi, your ecu will always think thats the max you're boosting too, and that issue of fuel cut will be resolved.

But I've said it a million times, fuel cut is simply not a function of boost pressure within the manifold, which is why Mike is still hitting the fuel cut.

[laloosh]

so what is boost cut caused by. Cause i ran as much as 21psi while i was tunning my mbc and have yet to hit fuel cut.

[BoostedSpd6]

dude u better watch it that u dont blow the turbo up man thats way out of its efficency range

[chriscecc914]

wats bad about running the fuel cut defender and the cp-e if you have a manual boost controller and a wastegate set for the boost you want?

[ssinstaller]

so what is boost cut caused by. Cause i ran as much as 21psi while i was tunning my mbc and have yet to hit fuel cut.

From what I've noticed, I think it is usually caused by a combination of the MAP and MAF readings, but can also ba caused by excessivly lean AFR's. If the maf reading is higher than expected for a certian boost level you get fuel cut. I hit fuel cut at only 15psi a few times when it was below 30 deg last winter..but didn't have any issues this summer at 17psi..

wats bad about running the fuel cut defender and the cp-e if you have a manual boost controller and a wastegate set for the boost you want?


The FCD will change the map signal before the standback, so all the boost settings in the standback will not work properly. The standback reads the boost from the map sensor, and uses that for the boost controller, and the boost clip to help eliminate fuel cut.

One of the major benifits of the standback is the very good boost controller built into it-why would you want to use a MBC?

[chriscecc914]

From what I've noticed, I think it is usually caused by a combination of the MAP and MAF readings, but can also ba caused by excessivly lean AFR's. If the maf reading is higher than expected for a certian boost level you get fuel cut. I hit fuel cut at only 15psi a few times when it was below 30 deg last winter..but didn't have any issues this summer at 17psi..




The FCD will change the map signal before the standback, so all the boost settings in the standback will not work properly. The standback reads the boost from the map sensor, and uses that for the boost controller, and the boost clip to help eliminate fuel cut.

One of the major benifits of the standback is the very good boost controller built into it-why would you want to use a MBC?

Because the stock boost controller that is mounted on the stock turbo is eliminated with the ATP kit and is just replaced with a vacuum hose which is meant to have an mbc on it to regulate boost.

[laloosh]

because its 60 bucks instead of 600 and gains the same power, which is limited by the fuel system

[ssinstaller]

Because the stock boost controller that is mounted on the stock turbo is eliminated with the ATP kit and is just replaced with a vacuum hose which is meant to have an mbc on it to regulate boost.


You can easily use the stock boost control solenoid with the ATP kit.. Just tee it into the boost line before the wastgate..

[mrlilguy157]

good thread. Please give more cpe standback tuning advice

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

You can easily use the stock boost control solenoid with the ATP kit.. Just tee it into the boost line before the wastgate..

+1 for that idea..no MBC!!!!!

[laloosh]

+1 for that idea..no MBC!!!!!

please tell me why. You can max out the fuel system with a mbc and bolt ons. STandback is imho is needed when the fuel pump issue is resolved

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

extra spent money thats the only reason i guess, i'm not saying its a bad thing i just wouldn't do it. but i'd rather have a standback, that maxes out my car now...and has the potential to max out the car once the aftermarket catches up also. besides the standback is much safer than a MBC.

[chriscecc914]

extra spent money thats the only reason i guess, i'm not saying its a bad thing i just wouldn't do it. but i'd rather have a standback, that maxes out my car now...and has the potential to max out the car once the aftermarket catches up also. besides the standback is much safer than a MBC.

there are 1000hp cars that run an mbc. I dont think its that much of a risk if you know what you are doing, buy something quality, and set it up correctly.

Also, ATP told me not to run the stock boost control solenoid when I asked them about it during my 3076r install

[whooosh]

the only problem I see with running the stock boost control solenoid is the FACT that is regulates boost right after a huge spike
I have ZERO spike issues with my MBC/ATP F_C_D combo
I'm going to agree with whoever said "if you know what you are doing, an MBC can be useful and work pretty well
My MBC will be my partner on the MS6 until I have the car where I want it in terms of bolt on parts....then CP-E EMS is inevitable

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

the only problem I see with running the stock boost control solenoid is the FACT that is regulates boost right after a huge spike
I have ZERO spike issues with my MBC/ATP F_C_D combo
I'm going to agree with whoever said "if you know what you are doing, an MBC can be useful and work pretty well
My MBC will be my partner on the MS6 until I have the car where I want it in terms of bolt on parts....then CP-E EMS is inevitable

agreed

[laloosh]

x2....i have no spiking what so ever. Its set to 17 and nails it without going higher

[ssinstaller]

I'm not saying that all MB's are junk, but the standback is just safer. You can turn the boost up all you want to with a MBC, and your AFR's might be fine up top, but you can't do anything about the lean spot you'll get at part throttle from the faster spool. Why do you think alot of blown motors happen at only part throttle in the lower rpms...Take a look at the base map that comes with the stand back. They add boost, but they also add fuel..

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/ssinstaller/base.jpg

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

^RL facts +1

[chriscecc914]

[QUOTE=ssinstaller;3436436]I'm not saying that all MB's are junk, but the standback is just safer. You can turn the boost up all you want to with a MBC, and your AFR's might be fine up top, but you can't do anything about the lean spot you'll get at part throttle from the faster spool. Why do you think alot of blown motors happen at only part throttle in the lower rpms...Take a look at the base map that comes with the stand back. They add boost, but they also add fuel..

[QUOTE]


cant you just tune more fuel into the lean spots with the standback?

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

I'm not saying that all MB's are junk, but the standback is just safer. You can turn the boost up all you want to with a MBC, and your AFR's might be fine up top, but you can't do anything about the lean spot you'll get at part throttle from the faster spool. Why do you think alot of blown motors happen at only part throttle in the lower rpms...Take a look at the base map that comes with the stand back. They add boost, but they also add fuel..


:cool:

[tru-boost]

your fuel addition is controlled by the MAF readings. if you add boost via MBC the car will keep stock like A/F's. the maf reads the incoming air and tells the ecu how much fuel to add. it will need a short "re-learning" period like any other mod, but your ecu will adjust and be totally safe, all the way until you reach the MAF max (which is well above 18psi, even in cold weather) those who knock a MBC just dont understand it. true it is not a "tuning solution" like the standback, but the results seen by MBC users is hard to argue with. so far the MBC MS3's actually make MORE power than cars with the standback. no blown motors yet either !

[laloosh]

i have a feeling people are just trying to defend their hard earned money. mbcs are the way to go with this car untill some1 comes out with throttle control.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

your fuel addition is controlled by the MAF readings. if you add boost via MBC the car will keep stock like A/F's. the maf reads the incoming air and tells the ecu how much fuel to add. it will need a short "re-learning" period like any other mod, but your ecu will adjust and be totally safe, all the way until you reach the MAF max (which is well above 18psi, even in cold weather) those who knock a MBC just dont understand it. true it is not a "tuning solution" like the standback, but the results seen by MBC users is hard to argue with. so far the MBC MS3's actually make MORE power than cars with the standback. no blown motors yet either !

really where are these dyno sheets? cuz that doesn't make sense at all

[laloosh]

search on here, a ms3 with with a modded airbox, 18psi mbc, and racepipe made 311whp and 364wtq, backed it up by going 12.7 @ 107mph in the 1/4. Trap speeds dont lie

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

he didn't make 311whp on stock downpipe! no way!? its way to restrictive to allow that

on the other hand: in what way would that be faster than that same car, modded airbox, standback tuned and set to 18psi, with a racepipe.

that standback would achieve better results even still, i'm convinced

[tru-boost]

i'll save you the trouble.........
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123684433
people just have misconceptions about some things. just like people who say.... "nitrous will blow your motor" it becomes clear that they just dont get it.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

well i just don't get how a MBC can be any better than the standback set to the same boost as the MBC would be.
plus the fact that you can tune your car with it!!!!! +9billion over MBC

i'm not saying a MBC wont increase your power lol, cuz i know they are great...but not better than a real tuning solution.period

[laloosh]

he didn't make 311whp on stock downpipe! no way!? its way to restrictive to allow that

on the other hand: in what way would that be faster than that same car, modded airbox, standback tuned and set to 18psi, with a racepipe.

that standback would achieve better results even still, i'm convinced

well he did, as well as trapping 107 on the stock downpipe. Notice the top of the graph goes flat, thats probably the restrictive downpipe/pos intercooler doing its thing. once he replaces those two and allows the turbo to work easier and not loose pressure through the system im sure hell be cracking 340-350

[laloosh]

well i just don't get how a MBC can be any better than the standback set to the same boost as the MBC would be.

besides the fact that you can tune your car with it!!!!!

give up, they make the same power, ure not tunning shit it any of the standbacks, the reason they make any power is because they raise boost. The only benafit of a standback is part throttle driving and the ability to be an idiot by flooring the car in 6th gear at 1500rpm...u simply cant do that with a mbc. untill throttle control comes out, that is the ONLY thing you are paying 600 bucks for and fucking up ure wiring harness.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

well he did, as well as trapping 107 on the stock downpipe. Notice the top of the graph goes flat, thats probably the restrictive downpipe/pos intercooler doing its thing. once he replaces those two and allows the turbo to work easier and not loose pressure through the system im sure hell be cracking 340-350

well that is sick (idhitit)

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

give up, they make the same power, ure not tunning shit it any of the standbacks, the reason they make any power is because they raise boost. The only benafit of a standback is part throttle driving and the ability to be an idiot by flooring the car in 6th gear at 1500rpm...u simply cant do that with a mbc. untill throttle control comes out, that is the ONLY thing you are paying 600 bucks for and fucking up ure wiring harness.

what are you talking about?

you are to tuning shit with a standback?
therefore more power.
you do more than raise boost?
i'm not giving up.

[laloosh]

what are you talking about?

you are to tuning shit with a standback?
therefore more power.
you do more than raise boost?
i'm not giving up.

oh really? what do you tune? you have ZERO CONTROL over the throttle and thats what limits power on these cars. The only thing u can do is a a/f ratio, which guess what are not lean or rich with a mbc, and timing, whihc once again guess what is spot on factory. the only thing you can do is part throttle boost since the stock boost control system actaully takes care of it for you. look at hp figures for every tuned ms3/6 and compare them to mbc figures. They are virtually they same and both will run the fuel pump try with mods. once cobb or cpe comes out with throttle control, thats when ill whip out my amex and actually 'tune' the car

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

omg.
you tune fuel, timing, and boost. just like any other tuner, sure there are still issues with the throttle...but you will have that issue with an MBC as well.

and you can run rich or lean on a MBC, without a tune.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

what limits power on these cars is not only the throttle position, but more importantly the fuel system wont support this car at WOT...cuz it can't even keep up right now at our limited throttle

[laloosh]

omg.
you tune fuel, timing, and boost. just like any other tuner, sure there are still issues with the throttle...but you will have that issue with an MBC as well.

and you can run rich or lean on a MBC, without a tune.

sure you can, its called running out of fuel or not running enough of boost. if you run 17-18psi you will nto run rich or lean. you can 'tune' a mbc as well, all you need is a egt guage or a a/f guage

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

that isn't tuning lol. altering your boost to run at a desired a/f ratio LOL. you alter your fuel and timing to acheive the proper a/f ratio under any desired amount of boost.

[laloosh]

which on this car is about 17-18psi cuase the turbo is pretty much shit after that. yes it is tuning, just because it doenst cost 600 dollar, a wirring harness, and dyno time does not mean its not 'tuning'

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

it my be 'tuning up', but its not tuning lol. thats how i would tune if i was a cheap bastard, who didn't care about my car.

[tru-boost]

the fact that the stock turbo poops out at over 18 psi is a factor as well.
a MBC equiped car has PROVEN to make just as much power and be just as fast, so i dont see the debate here. i would like to see a few more MBC cars get dynoed, just so i can see the A/F's. i was all about getting the standback a few weeks ago... i dont even know if i want it now. its the more expensive option.....not to mention there have been 3 MS6's who have blown engines with the standback in the last month !! maybe the A/F and timing control is better off left alone....

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

if thats tuning, then:

with a gt3076 turbo and a MBC, how would you tune your car if you wanted to run 22psi????

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

the fact that the stock turbo poops out at over 18 psi is a factor as well.
a MBC equiped car has PROVEN to make just as much power and be just as fast, so i dont see the debate here. i would like to see a few more MBC cars get dynoed, just so i can see the A/F's. i was all about getting the standback a few weeks ago... i dont even know if i want it now. its the more expensive option.....not to mention there have been 3 MS6's who have blown engines with the standback in the last month !! maybe the A/F and timing control is better off left alone....

on a stock turbo! thats all i'm saying, you can't continue to upgrade with a MBC. you eventually need a REAL TUNING SOLUTION. thats all i'm sayin bro

[laloosh]

now your chaning turbos, so you need tuning. Stock turbo does not need it.

As to all thes ms6 guys blowing up...where are the links?

[tru-boost]

you cant do that with the standback either.....
the fuel system cant do it !!

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

if thats tuning, then:

with a gt3076 turbo and a MBC, how would you tune your car if you wanted to run 22psi????

(pow)

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

you cant do that with the standback either.....
the fuel system cant do it !!

hahahaha -1 to that.. it sucks so bad

but you can do it with a standback tune!, you'll just hit fuel cut ;(

[laloosh]

on a stock turbo! thats all i'm saying, you can't continue to upgrade with a MBC. you eventually need a REAL TUNING SOLUTION. thats all i'm sayin bro

a laugh at people who get big turbos and make a whopping 340whp. you can do that on the stocker and be just as fast. There is no point to big turbos, tunning untill the fuel pump issue is resolved....once again this is just my opinion/route

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

i'm not saying its not a power solution, so just don't take me the wrong way. i'd just like to point out, that a MBC isn't as good as a standback if you are wanting to safely alter boost levels.

[tru-boost]

now your chaning turbos, so you need tuning. Stock turbo does not need it.

As to all thes ms6 guys blowing up...where are the links?

its on the other forum you'll have to look it wont let me link it here.....

http://**********************/index.php?topic=92288.0

[laloosh]

umm how did some1 manage to blow a turbo on less than stock boost? you cant even lower the boost with a mbc below stock. The other guys all had standbacks? Wow that pretty much sucks.

[tru-boost]

i was thinking the same thing....you cant reduce boost below the factory setting with a MBC ?!?! but yes.... the standback is not gaining any credibility with these kind of results.

[MS6mike]

no you dont!

[ssinstaller]

i was thinking the same thing....you cant reduce boost below the factory setting with a MBC ?!?! but yes.... the standback is not gaining any credibility with these kind of results.

I haven't seen any motors blow up with the standback installed, and I'm on the other forum fairly often. I have seen one or two that blew up after the standback was removed to take the car in for service...

[tru-boost]

look harder... its on ************ and ********** there are 3 cars that blew WITH the standback installed.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

look harder... its on ************ and ********** there are 3 cars that blew WITH the standback installed.

with the stand back installed on what map @ what psi?? laloosh now your chaning turbos, so you need tuning. Stock turbo does not need it.

As to all thes ms6 guys blowing up...where are the links?

and stock turbo DOES need it, if you have even just an intake or an exhaust

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

standback is better for tuning! and is better for more power output! and MBC's suck!!!
hahah jk, i may be running a MBC in conjunction with my standback and big turbo ;) just harassing you!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123686546

[MS6mike]

standback is better for tuning! and is better for more power output! and MBC's suck!!!
hahah jk, i may be running a MBC in conjunction with my standback and big turbo ;) just harassing you!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123686546

how to do that?

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

i got the idea from you!? weren't you running a MBC after you put your turbo on, since the stock solenoid was faulty or something

[MS6mike]

i got the idea from you!? weren't you running a MBC after you put your turbo on, since the stock solenoid was faulty or something

yea and it sucks, thats why as was asking how to do it! i had my MBC conected but i was hiting fuel cut! i conected the stock solenoid good and no more fuel cut! even thou I have to agree so far the MBC let me boost higher and not loose so mutch boost between shifts! but the difference is that i have to change the WG settings now! and then it will be better!

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

oh i see, so you are sticking with the stock solenoid, and adjusting your WG?

i think you should try to reconnect the MBC and get the new CDFuelPump upgrade, and run the MBC at high boost

[MS6mike]

oh i see, so you are sticking with the stock solenoid, and adjusting your WG?

i think you should try to reconnect the MBC and get the new CDFuelPump upgrade, and run the MBC at high boost

maybe i dont know what to do this moment!