scratches and swirls!

[clos561]

I want to remove scratches and swirls on my car, i bought liquid ice clay bar and polish, the polish worked great but i did not get the results from the clay bar that i wanted. i thought clay bar removes swirls and stuff. Does anyone know what i can buy to remove these scratches.

[altspace]

Welcome to the forum. We have a complete detailing section.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=241

[sanblaster]

Liquid ice wet clay bar works good but is poor compared to others. And yes, Josh made an entire subforum on detailing. Very nice and professional. Search you noob..

[clos561]

noob? relax, check my posts.....thanks alt space

[B1GHAM]

a clay bar is designed to remove impurities from the paint (IE stuck pollen, tar, bugs, other paint impurities). It WILL NOT remove swirls. It will however give your polish/wax job a more even coat and therefore better appearance.

get a good 3 step wax... 1st step is a swirl remover (very light compound) to help reduce washing swirls on the paint.

the polish will help restore dull and OXIDIZED* clear coats...

and the wax is to help protect your finish :p

*fixed for forcefed :p

[sanblaster]

i'm kidding post whore

[clos561]

a clay bar is designed to remove impurities from the paint (IE stuck pollen, tar, bugs, other paint impurities). It WILL NOT remove swirls. It will however give your polish/wax job a more even coat and therefore better appearance.

get a good 3 step wax... 1st step is a swirl remover (very light compound) to help reduce washing swirls on the paint.

the polish will help restore dull and oxygenated clear coats...

and the wax is to help protect your finish :p

turtle wax has a "scratch remover" should i buy that and get a good turtle wax, since i already have turtle wax products i want to keep within the same company till shit runs out

[sanblaster]

I have a few of their products (Turtle Ice) but I use the NU Finish Scratch remover. Works very well imo.

[redspeed3tk]

buff with foam pad and compound @2200 rpms or higher then polish then wax

[clos561]

i dont have a buffer, ill check out some of the shit they sell atwalmart and discount auto part store

[Jasonstiller]

Ive heard really good things about mothers cleaner/wax Im doin mine this weekend to get rid of small scratches and waterspots

[evo77]

I want to remove scratches and swirls on my car, i bought liquid ice clay bar and polish, the polish worked great but i did not get the results from the clay bar that i wanted. i thought clay bar removes swirls and stuff. Does anyone know what i can buy to remove these scratches.

Very light swirls may be removed by hand however it is VERY time consuming and it comes with a lot of elbow grease.

Meguiars Scratch X (http://meguiars.com/?auto-paint-cleaners/ScratchX) is a fantastic product. Its formulated to be used by hand however its really meant for quick spot fixes rather than being applied to the entire vehicle. Its not a wipe on/wipe off product. You have to work it in with passion and it may take a few applications.

If you really want to rid the paint effectively and quickly from the unsightly marring then a professional machine would be required. The detailers choice is the Porter Cable 7424 (http://properautocare.com/basporcab74p.html). Its a oscillating polisher that has various speeds. Combined with the right product for the job (and the right TECHNIQUE), it can make a paint finish look flawless.

If your serious about a prestine finish then you should read up and learn on how to use the machine and what products to use for your situation. There are many different polishes out there, each with different levels of abrasives.

Just a few good resources...

www.paintcare-n-detailing.com
www.autopia.org/forum
www.meguiarsonline.com

[Killer]

"hand glaze" (lol2)

[ForceFed]

the polish will help restore dull and oxygenated clear coats
How about no....Not oxygenated....OXIDIZED.

[clos561]

Very light swirls may be removed by hand however it is VERY time consuming and it comes with a lot of elbow grease.

Meguiars Scratch X (http://meguiars.com/?auto-paint-cleaners/ScratchX) is a fantastic product. Its formulated to be used by hand however its really meant for quick spot fixes rather than being applied to the entire vehicle. Its not a wipe on/wipe off product. You have to work it in with passion and it may take a few applications.

If you really want to rid the paint effectively and quickly from the unsightly marring then a professional machine would be required. The detailers choice is the Porter Cable 7424 (http://properautocare.com/basporcab74p.html). Its a oscillating polisher that has various speeds. Combined with the right product for the job (and the right TECHNIQUE), it can make a paint finish look flawless.

If your serious about a prestine finish then you should read up and learn on how to use the machine and what products to use for your situation. There are many different polishes out there, each with different levels of abrasives.

Just a few good resources...

www.paintcare-n-detailing.com
www.autopia.org/forum
www.meguiarsonline.com

i dont care abotu length of time or amount of work..it is all worth it, i will check these out and prolyl try megs's and apply several coats, then wax...

[B1GHAM]

How about no....Not oxygenated....OXIDIZED.

bah - you know what I meant lol... :p

yes youre right, but oxidized is what I meant...

[bkw]

Get this> http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_2000&L2=L2_2060&SKU=10925

I was afraid of using a ROP for fear of burning my paint, but this tool along with Griots products really works! Used it on my 10 year old e36 M3's paint and brought it to concourse quality in one afternoon!

[Frankenstein]

I have used Menzerna Intensive Polish, followed by Menzerna Final Polish, then waxed and sealed, with great results. Elbow grease only because I don't have the Porter.

I agree with the above on using clay. It's good for removing impurities, etc. Try a pre-wax polishing compound, whatever brand you like, for removing swirls. Also, a polisher like the Porter is truly more effective than elbow grease.

[NeverNate]

+1 for www.autopia.org

also, if you are looking for products that you can pick up locally, i would suggest the Meguiar's #7 coupled with #26

[ThrillRide]

I want to remove scratches and swirls on my car, i bought liquid ice clay bar and polish, the polish worked great but i did not get the results from the clay bar that i wanted. i thought clay bar removes swirls and stuff. Does anyone know what i can buy to remove these scratches.

clay doesn't remove swirls. in fact done wrong it will induce more swirls and scratches.
got pics of the swirls?


buff with foam pad and compound @2200 rpms or higher then polish then wax

not very good nor thorough advice. orbitals don't measure in rpm. they measure in oscillations. if you are using a rotary then 2200 is usually far to high. plus there are a lot of foam pad choices with varying ppi. need to make the right choice.


i dont have a buffer, ill check out some of the shit they sell atwalmart and discount auto part store

don't waste your money.



I have used Menzerna Intensive Polish, followed by Menzerna Final Polish, then waxed and sealed, with great results. Elbow grease only because I don't have the Porter.

I agree with the above on using clay. It's good for removing impurities, etc. Try a pre-wax polishing compound, whatever brand you like, for removing swirls. Also, a polisher like the Porter is truly more effective than elbow grease.


Menz is a great product and will do an outstaning job. But to really see its full potential you need a machine.


hit up the detailing section people!! this is a perfect thread to go there. does help to search before posting.

[fourthmeal]

If you're up for it,

Go with Zaino on the whole car, and USE CERTAIN TOWELS ONLY!

By that I mean you need to use towels that are 100% made in the USA, 100% Cotton, and clean. If you drop one on the ground, it goes in the wash, not on the car. Same with cleaning sponges, and basically anything else. If in doubt, put cardboard under your car area.

With a Zaino Claybar, a scratch/swirl remover coat, and a final coat of polish, your red will be RED.

I had a 2000 Celica GTS Absolute Red, and Zaino made a massive difference. Enjoy.

[Blake]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(inout)


How about no....Not oxygenated....OXIDIZED.

[controlo]

i recommend not using turtle wax. if you're looking for OTC waxes, which i'm assuming you are, try mothers or meguiers. clay bar won't remove scratches, it will not add scratches either if used correctly. to REMOVE swirls, you're most likely going to need to use an orbital or a ton of elbow grease and some cleaner wax. meguiers NXT fills in the swirls very nicely as does MOTHERS reflections and they both contain cleaners. to prevent swirls in the future, just use care when washing your car. don't use bath towels. i use a microfiber mit or a wool mit and a blue viking microfiber towel.

i don't know what else to say... haha.

autopia.org is good and so is waxforum.com

good luck man!

[ThrillRide]

By that I mean you need to use towels that are 100% made in the USA, 100% Cotton, and clean. .

I love to buy USA whenever I can. But when it comes to towels for my car...no dice. Terry cotton is a not the best choice. It can actually induce swirls of its own. I just demonstrated that to my wife the other day on my practice piece. The best towels are microfiber. A 70/30 blend of polyester/polyamide. The better quality towels come from Korea. Cheaper MF towels come from China and area usually 80/20 or 90/10. The lower the polyester number the better. Dual pile are a great choice for versatility.

[Frankenstein]

I second ThrillRide's comments regarding the microfiber towels from Korea. They work great. I even wipe my eyeglasses and CD's with them. Hand wash with something like DP Rejuvenator and hang dry afterwards.

Aside, drying blades used in conjunction with microfiber "guzzler" towels speed up drying big time. Use light pressure so as not to scratch your nice clear coat.

BTW, I finally purchased a Porter DA polisher with a variety of Lake pads and Cobra microfiber bonnets, for use with my Menz stuff.

I got Popeye arms from trying to polish and compound by hand.

[ThrillRide]

I second ThrillRide's comments regarding the microfiber towels from Korea. They work great. I even wipe my eyeglasses and CD's with them. Hand wash with something like DP Rejuvenator and hang dry afterwards.

Aside, drying blades used in conjunction with microfiber "guzzler" towels speed up drying big time. Use light pressure so as not to scratch your nice clear coat.

BTW, I finally purchased a Porter DA polisher with a variety of Lake pads and Cobra microfiber bonnets, for use with my Menz stuff.

I got Popeye arms from trying to polish and compound by hand.


Using CDs is a great way to test towels too. Take a cd (one you don't care about ;) ) and wipe your towel over it. If it shows small scratches/swirls it is doing the same thing to your paint. blades are ok but you need to be careful. if you trap a piece of dirt of something under it you are going to have one long and nasty scratch to deal with.

you will love the PC. It will make you wonder why you waited so long. One thing about Menz though...it does work fine with the PC, but used on a high speed rotary it is like a whole other world. Just something about how they made it really responds.

[clos561]

im going to order some meguiars scracth x.im going to use it on the car and im going to use the meguiars paste wax, im going to order some today after i finish reassembling my dash. will mixing the turtale wax ice clay bar and liquid polish with meguiars cause any harm? they are full and i dont want to jsut toss them.

[ThrillRide]

im going to order some meguiars scracth x.im going to use it on the car and im going to use the meguiars paste wax, im going to order some today after i finish reassembling my dash. will mixing the turtale wax ice clay bar and liquid polish with meguiars cause any harm? they are full and i dont want to jsut toss them.

sell the turtle to someone that likes it.

[clos561]

thats gona be hard, i figure i can do the steps like this, turtle liquid clay bar, meguiars scratch x, liquid polish then meguiars paste wax. does that seem like good way to use the products i have?

[fourthmeal]

It is interesting that you mention that towels scratch, because I've not had this result at all.

Following Zaino Bros' suggestions, I use Cannondale or Fieldcrest Towels, and I cut off the ends where there is some nylon and polyester threading. I use far better towels to wash, wax, and detail my car then I do for my own skin. Then I wash them twice in ALL or some other dye-free detergent, and stick them in the dryer without a dryer sheet. From there, using Zaino polishes I've seen nothing but SHINE and deep color from all the cars I've used it on.

From owning a 97 Ram Air T/A that was pure jet Black, to several silver cars, to a red celica, to a Protege ES dark emerald green, and my father's Black vette...Zaino owns, and their suggestions for properly washing, polishing, and detailing a car are FANTASTIC advice.

Edited to add:

clos, I don't recommend mixing compounds that weren't designed for each other. The formulas can interact, causing trouble. Its all chemistry, and its a carefully constructed system.

[ThrillRide]

which paste?

[Frankenstein]

Spot on, ThrillRide. I already have a Dewalt rotary which I use for swordsmithing. I have been reluctant to use it on the MS3 because of "burnout." My technique isn't refined enough to take the plunge. Ironic because I blaze my swords like a champ with the Dewalt...even caught my T-shirt on fire once (the one time I wasn't wearing my welder's apron).

[ThrillRide]

Spot on, ThrillRide. I already have a Dewalt rotary which I use for swordsmithing. I have been reluctant to use it on the MS3 because of "burnout." My technique isn't refined enough to take the plunge. Ironic because I blaze my swords like a champ with the Dewalt...even caught my T-shirt on fire once (the one time I wasn't wearing my welder's apron).

That sounds very interesting! Sounds like fun. But yeah it does take some practice to get it right. You don't need any more than about 1500-1800 rpm max. start slow, work up, and then back down.

[ThrillRide]

It is interesting that you mention that towels scratch, because I've not had this result at all.

Following Zaino Bros' suggestions, I use Cannondale or Fieldcrest Towels, and I cut off the ends where there is some nylon and polyester threading. I use far better towels to wash, wax, and detail my car then I do for my own skin. Then I wash them twice in ALL or some other dye-free detergent, and stick them in the dryer without a dryer sheet. From there, using Zaino polishes I've seen nothing but SHINE and deep color from all the cars I've used it on.

From owning a 97 Ram Air T/A that was pure jet Black, to several silver cars, to a red celica, to a Protege ES dark emerald green, and my father's Black vette...Zaino owns, and their suggestions for properly washing, polishing, and detailing a car are FANTASTIC advice.

Edited to add:

clos, I don't recommend mixing compounds that weren't designed for each other. The formulas can interact, causing trouble. Its all chemistry, and its a carefully constructed system.


Pretty much sounds like you have drunk the zaino koolaid, so whatever floats your boat. ;)

[Frankenstein]

Since purchasing my MS3 several months ago, I've had to cut into my forging time in order to work on the MS3. Too many hobbies, not enough time. Thankfully, one hobby generates some cash flow; with the MS3, cash flows the other way.

Aside, I've been tinkering with the idea of fabricating an air splitter and canards for the MS3, just for fun. Carbon fiber is a great medium. However, I will most likely prototype with G-10 or Nylon 6/6 because I have it on hand.

Tonight, I'll be playing with the Porter. My wife's Mini is in dire straits, with water spotting, pigeon dookie, bug guts, yellow paint from grocery store poles. I told her she should drive a bumper car.

[fourthmeal]

Pretty much sounds like you have drunk the zaino koolaid, so whatever floats your boat. ;)

yeah, I hear ya, but after working with about 20 other major products over 11 years of detailing as a hobby, I can safely say its the best system I've used. If this is drinking the koolaid, you can give me the entire bucket:

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs12/i/2006/339/0/b/Motorcyling__In_the_Desert2_by_Fourthmeal.jpg

Doh...I tried to find pics of my Celica and T/A, but forgot they are on the home hard-drive...anywho, to each their own and all but I've been proven the value of their product.

Clos...if its a matter of small scratches and swirls,...you gotta get a micro-fine polish on it pronto. The clay bar was a good start, but thats nothing more then getting down to the bare paint devoid of debris and wax. You have to immediately protect the paint with a polish and wax afterwards. Two brands I'll never touch again is Turtle wax and Blue Coral. Fuck em both.

[clos561]

can someone give me a link to a site that sells a whole kit of either meguiars or zaino.. like clay bar, polish , wax all in one package. i want to get all the same products now after reading some of your posts. i need somethign that is best for handjobs (lol) since i dont have a buffer and i am not going to buy one

[controlo]

can someone give me a link to a site that sells a whole kit of either meguiars or zaino.. like clay bar, polish , wax all in one package. i want to get all the same products now after reading some of your posts. i need somethign that is best for handjobs (lol) since i dont have a buffer and i am not going to buy one

haha.

www.autogeek.net

[ThrillRide]

like Altspace said check out the detail section.

[ThrillRide]

yeah, I hear ya, but after working with about 20 other major products over 11 years of detailing as a hobby, I can safely say its the best system I've used.

Just curious which 'major' products? Because I can name several that are far anway better than Zaino.

[clos561]

haha.

www.autogeek.net

thanks for the site, i was reading on mothers complete kit and its sounds pretty good, is that good to do by hand?

_actually pinnacle looks like their kit is exactly what i need, the intermediate scratch and swirl remover, its 50 bucks, i jsut gota buy pinnacle wax so i can apply it after i do the system

[Frankenstein]

+1 for Autogeek.net

Just got my Porter Cable from them yesterday. Polished/compounded my wife's Mini this morning with it. Hey ThrillRide, you are right that there's a HUGE difference when using an orbital polisher.

clos561, autogeek also has a detailing tips area with downloadable videos.

[clos561]

+1 for Autogeek.net

Just got my Porter Cable from them yesterday. Polished/compounded my wife's Mini this morning with it. Hey ThrillRide, you are right that there's a HUGE difference when using an orbital polisher.

clos561, autogeek also has a detailing tips area with downloadable videos.

i read tips on how to apply the waxes, and the pinnacle kit that i am most likely going to buy explains everything on application for each compound in the kit, very helpfull site with so much shit to buy

[fourthmeal]

clos Zaino is sold at www.zainostore.com

ThrillRide I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you about it, because I know you are passionate about detailing, and I'm sure you know a lot about the topic. Just in the same way that I'm an expert in car audio, you are likely an expert in detailing.

However, Meguires' products (from their basic stuff to their 3 step stuff), Mothers' (same thing), Armor All, Turtle Wax, Blue Coral, Zymol (the real kind), Eagle 1, Honda branded waxes, pro 3M products, DuPont products, and a few other "secret ingredient" mixes found at the local car show booths, all have done a fair job but haven't come close to my success with Zaino.

I met up with a guy named Matt Lauer in KC who sold Zaino by friend-of-a-friend, and got a chance to look at his show cars. That alone sold me, and when I used the products myself and saw how they worked with each other without any real effort or special tools (like a buffer), I was hooked. I love the idea that I don't have to worry about getting it on the wrong part of the car, I love the smell, I love the fact it protected one of my cars against a keying incident. I had 8 coats of Zaino polish on my Celica, which got keyed while at a party. I went home and repolished those spots, and the keymarks vanished by the 2nd recoat, and actually never made it through to the paint. I love the way the plastic polish completely restored the clear lenses on the front of my Mustang, while 3M, Mothers, and DuPont all failed at this completely. I love how they use an accelerator, and how the application of this stuff doesn't require the use of a shaded area. I love the tire shine stuff, which doesn't sling off or cause damage to tires over time like Armor All can. Basically, I like the product because it has served me very well, and given both me and my father wins at car shows based on concours detailing. So, degrade the product all you want, or tell me something is better all you want, but you have some BIG shoes to fill if you're going to try to replace Zaino in my arsenal.

[Antonio DiMarco]

clos Zaino is sold at www.zainostore.com

ThrillRide I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you about it, because I know you are passionate about detailing, and I'm sure you know a lot about the topic. Just in the same way that I'm an expert in car audio, you are likely an expert in detailing.

However, Meguires' products (from their basic stuff to their 3 step stuff), Mothers' (same thing), Armor All, Turtle Wax, Blue Coral, Zymol (the real kind), Eagle 1, Honda branded waxes, pro 3M products, DuPont products, and a few other "secret ingredient" mixes found at the local car show booths, all have done a fair job but haven't come close to my success with Zaino.

I met up with a guy named Matt Lauer in KC who sold Zaino by friend-of-a-friend, and got a chance to look at his show cars. That alone sold me, and when I used the products myself and saw how they worked with each other without any real effort or special tools (like a buffer), I was hooked. I love the idea that I don't have to worry about getting it on the wrong part of the car, I love the smell, I love the fact it protected one of my cars against a keying incident. I had 8 coats of Zaino polish on my Celica, which got keyed while at a party. I went home and repolished those spots, and the keymarks vanished by the 2nd recoat, and actually never made it through to the paint. I love the way the plastic polish completely restored the clear lenses on the front of my Mustang, while 3M, Mothers, and DuPont all failed at this completely. I love how they use an accelerator, and how the application of this stuff doesn't require the use of a shaded area. I love the tire shine stuff, which doesn't sling off or cause damage to tires over time like Armor All can. Basically, I like the product because it has served me very well, and given both me and my father wins at car shows based on concours detailing. So, degrade the product all you want, or tell me something is better all you want, but you have some BIG shoes to fill if you're going to try to replace Zaino in my arsenal.

I was very skeptical about Zaino before I actually used it, but I'll tell ya, Sal and his products are a class act. I also used everything under the sun and never had the type of performance I get from Zaino products. I used Zaino on my black Mazda 3S and while I didn't have 8 coats, the 3 coats I did apply (after preping with their claybar) held up through tough NE winters and with little maintenance. When I traded my 3S in for my Speed3 (same color as yours fourthmeal) I stuck with Zaino. The depth of the black paint also never failed to solicit questions from onlookers. In fact I just finished applying Zailno this afternoon (Two coats on the Speed3 body, windows and wheels) and can't be happier.

Like Fourthmeal I really appreciate the ease and convenience of the Zaino family of products. The fact that it doesn't adversely effect plastic and is compatible with 90% of automobile surfaces is a huge deal for me. I also don't have the time I used to have when I was insgle and could blow a weekend detailing my car. 4 hours was all it took for me to do my car today.

Sal is also a nice guy. very easy to talk to and completely reasonable. I panicked at one point becasue I didn't follow his steps to the letter and he told me to relax and not to worry. In my opinion the confidence Sal has in his products is genuine and thankfully free of marketing hype. He also NEVER tried to sell me what I didn't need.

And you know what his stuff is also AFFORDABLE.

The only difficulty I ever have with Zaino is knowing if I actually applied enough. Sal stresses to his custoemrs not to use too much, but I was so used to other products that required liberal use, that I'm still expecting a heavy haze of product on my paint. So in many cases I apply too much product and end up with streaking. Applying Zaino Z6 fixes this though.

Question for Fourthmeal:

is it safe to say that as long as the applicator is damp that you are applying enough Zaino polish to the paint?

[fourthmeal]

This is for Clos and Antonio...

From what I can see on the site, and what I've used before, less is more with this product.

The best thing I can recommend for people to know what to do with this stuff is to read the website. There is information everywhere, within each product page, and the tips and tricks, and application guides. The newest stuff (the Z-AIO, and Z-CS) isn't in the older application guides, but it is in the product pages within those two products.

Their deliberation about microfiber towels is interesting to read as well. All throughout, there are beautiful pictures as well. I think you might find my father's vette and my T/A in there, if you look around.

[ThrillRide]

ThrillRide I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you about it...

However, Meguires' products (from their basic stuff to their 3 step stuff), Mothers' (same thing), Armor All, Turtle Wax, Blue Coral, Zymol (the real kind), Eagle 1, Honda branded waxes, pro 3M products, DuPont products, and a few other "secret ingredient" mixes found at the local car show booths, all have done a fair job but haven't come close to my success with Zaino.




Neither am I. I truely was curious, because whenever I come across a zaino fanboy its usually the same story. They have either never tired any other products at all or not any good ones. Which is the same in this case except for Zymol. I use Zaino products and like what I use, but it bothers me when people get closed minded. My problem with zaino is it markets z2 and z5 as polish, which neither are. They are filling/hiding products that give people a false representation of what is happening with their finish. They only have 2 polishes and neither are very strong. Only good for finishing. They market the need to use the whole line in order for the products to work, which also bothers me. And its true many of their products don't bond well with others. When it comes to polish zaino has nothing on the top brands. When it comes to depth and shine, it also has little on other products. But if I need a quick sealer and protectant that will cover up impurities zaino is a good choice. I have tested most of the professional and boutique products and gotten better results and it makes more business sense for a pro. So there you have it. Like I said to each there own. I just don't like closed mindedness. I see way to many forums where guys sware by zaino or another product and get high and mighty about it yet have never even tried a possible better option.


clos, I have some pinnacle products for sale if you are interested. they are 99% new. hit me up if you are interested.

[controlo]

i've heard very good things about pinnacle. the basic swirl remover set looks promising, clos.

for me though, i don't have any noticeable swirl marks on my car. if anything, i need to get rid of some water spots. so i don't need a polish right now. it just depends on what your needs are...

i personally think meguiers and mothers are very good for OTC products and work fine as long as you know the basics of keeping your paint swirl free. (some people take it too far IMO)

mothers clay bay, reflections wax, reflections top coat on a charcoal grey Scion tC. gorgeous.

i still haven't waxed my Sunlight Silver MS3 (just the hood), not sure if i wanna use reflections on it or not.