MBC and ATP BCD

[laloosh]

ok my turbosmart mbc is sitting next to me going haha you cant install me untill the atp bcd arrives. i just want to go over the basics here for those that have installed it.

pull the battery and tray, locate WG actuator, pull lower hose, attach that hose to the mbc, from teh mbc attached the hose back onto the lower wg actuator. Remove upper wg actuator hose and cap it? Where does the other end of this hose go? This is where im a little lost. like i said i havnt seen the lines, im just oing based on what i've read. As for the atp, its simply so i have no questions about this.

all imput is greatly appriciated as i am doing this sometime this weekend

[Craighjr]

Hey I don't have that set up but I had a thread going where this idea was put out there. I believe for a mbc you only need to put it right in the line to the waste gate. Unless your mbc has more than 2 ports I would imagine you leave the upper line alone. You have a boost gauge right? If you don't I would obviously not install that yet.

[Jays07MS3]

pull the battery and tray, locate WG actuator, pull lower hose, attach that hose to the mbc, from teh mbc attached the hose back onto the lower wg actuator. Remove upper wg actuator hose and cap it? Where does the other end of this hose go? This is where im a little lost. like i said i havnt seen the lines, im just oing based on what i've read. As for the atp, its simply so i have no questions about this.

all imput is greatly appriciated as i am doing this sometime this weekend

We have TWO wastegate actuator hoses??? I didn't know that. Why would there be 2? On my eclipse there was only one and as Craighjr mentioned, I just ran the MBC inline with that hose as close to the actuator as I could get. One tip is to try and minimize the total tubing length as much as possible to help get better response and minimize boost spikes.

But I'm curious as to why there are 2 hoses going to the wastegate actuator. When the boost pressure is greater than the MBC spring force, the pressure travels to the wg and pushes on the diaphram, overcomes the wg spring force and actuates the lever arm. When the MBC is closed, the wg spring forces the lever arm closed.

[laloosh]

We have TWO wastegate actuator hoses??? I didn't know that. Why would there be 2? On my eclipse there was only one and as Craighjr mentioned, I just ran the MBC inline with that hose as close to the actuator as I could get. One tip is to try and minimize the total tubing length as much as possible to help get better response and minimize boost spikes.

But I'm curious as to why there are 2 hoses going to the wastegate actuator. When the boost pressure is greater than the MBC spring force, the pressure travels to the wg and pushes on the diaphram, overcomes the wg spring force and actuates the lever arm. When the MBC is closed, the wg spring forces the lever arm closed.


from the info that ive gathered, btw there is nothing on the ms3 boards, if you actaully want answers you need to search the ms6 boards. The upper hose on the wg connects to the stock boost selanoid, the lower hoses connects directly to the turbo. you need to cap the stock selanoid and the upper hose and run the mbc on the lower hose, pretty much T it in.

[justa4banger]

Just fyi for those that want to know, (I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS APPLIES TO OUR CARS) i have seen actuators with 2 nippels. one in the normal position for boost and one on the other side of the diaphram for vaccume. The idea is that the vaccume line would help pull the actuator closed doing cruise. WHY hell if i know i know i just seen them like that.

Now as far as a mbc install on a MS3, i dunno if that would be the smartest thing. defineitely get that thing on a dyno or get a WBO2 to make sure your not running lean in any area of the rpm band with the MBC.

[shucky]

Laloosh, you get this setup up and running? Just curious how its working out for you ... -Mike

[laloosh]

the atp bcd is int eh mail. It should be done monday.

[speed3shon]

would this be a way to get around the limited power in first and second?

since the power is limited by running lower boost? or would it cause problems in those gears since they are fueled for much less boost...?

[Craighjr]

would this be a way to get around the limited power in first and second?

since the power is limited by running lower boost? or would it cause problems in those gears since they are fueled for much less boost...?

No the throttle plate closes to slow down the spool and limit overall boost

[laloosh]

No the throttle plate closes to slow down the spool and limit overall boost

actually i think it will change the boost limit. THe map is incharge of the boost limit, if the map is fooled thinking its reaching xxx pressure, when in fact its reachign a higher pressure it will raise the boost in all gears

[shucky]

You should no longer have boost limited in 1st and 2nd when using the mbc and atp bcd. The throttle plate will close no more or no less than when stock. I dont believe the throttle plate closes to control boost. For example, if you roll on the throttle in 1st or 2nd gear perhaps 1/2 throttle or more (not floored) you will still reach your maximum limited boost in those gears. How could the throttle plate be closing at "part throttle" to reduce/limit your boost in 1st and 2nd? ECU is controlling boost via the factory solenoid. I dont think you'll have an issue Laloosh, and quite honestly others have already done this and reported full boost, so I dont know why people are questioning it at this point. Let us know how it feels when your done, good luck ...

* understand if you have your mbc set for 18 psi you may not hit 18 psi in 1st gear, maybe not even 2nd gear simply because there may not be enough load to do so. Tune your mbc in 3rd or
4th gear to set maximum psi.

[Craighjr]

You should no longer have boost limited in 1st and 2nd when using the mbc and atp bcd. The throttle plate will close no more or no less than when stock. I dont believe the throttle plate closes to control boost. For example, if you roll on the throttle in 1st or 2nd gear perhaps 1/2 throttle or more (not floored) you will still reach your maximum limited boost in those gears. How could the throttle plate be closing at "part throttle" to reduce/limit your boost in 1st and 2nd? ECU is controlling boost via the factory solenoid. I dont think you'll have an issue Laloosh, and quite honestly others have already done this and reported full boost, so I dont know why people are questioning it at this point. Let us know how it feels when your done, good luck ...

* understand if you have your mbc set for 18 psi you may not hit 18 psi in 1st gear, maybe not even 2nd gear simply because there may not be enough load to do so. Tune your mbc in 3rd or
4th gear to set maximum psi.


Thats cool if thats how it is, I was unaware. I am refering to the datalogs from AMS ((maybe)deffinatly) showing the throttle postion jumping all over even thought the pedal is to the floor.
See Here. (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123657477)

[tru-boost]

to address the throttle plate observation,
it does not actually control boost. what it does is prevent the turbo from over working itself. it will allow the turbo to slow down and not get huge boost spikes, like small fast spooling turbos like to do. limiting the flow into the TB will reduce the air exiting the motor creating less turbo load. it can use the TB to reduce boost IF the MAP sensor reads to much boost however. it acts like a failsafe. it isnt tuning itself with the throttle plate, it will reduce flow if it thinks there is a problem though.

[laloosh]

Well my the atp unit arrived today. I have zero time to install it this wekeend. I got a wedding tomorrow, jets dolphins game sunday, so i will messs with this on monday. True boost do you knwo the size caps i need to cap the wastegate and stock boost selanoid?

[oskinosmee]

Where do i find a ATP BCD and how much is it?

[laloosh]

www.atpturbo.com its for the ms6 but it will work for the ms3 it was 75 bucks

[shucky]

Tru thanks for explaining!

[oskinosmee]

www.atpturbo.com its for the ms6 but it will work for the ms3 it was 75 bucks

Yea thanks let us know how yours turn out

[dannewitzm]

I have the Profec S installed with the ATP and I'm holding 18psi no prob in 3-6th on the low setting, 20 psi on the high side. Just an FYI- we've run 12 dynos trying to find the sweet spot for a MBC, and anything over 20 psi, our turbo craps out. I cant say for the T-type MBC, but for the GReddy, we used the bottom hose to the new solenoid, and then to the MBC (in cabin), and simply capped the hose off the turbo. Think of it as re-routing a hose for water. You're by-passing the stock actuator with a new one (the MBC). Its a pain to get the bottom hose on there, but I've been nothing but happy with the MBC.

[shucky]

What did you dyno?

[oskinosmee]

What did you dyno?

+1 ^^^^
This is my next mod do i need a bpv for it to hold.

[laloosh]

well heres an update, i ran out of vacum lines lol. (hand) The atp bcd is in, pita lol. The lower wastegate hose is off, the upper wastegate hose is not my source for my boost gauge, the stock boost selenoid is capped, now i just need to run a vac line from the compressor housing to the boost controller and back to the wastegate. Btw i have pictures of everything. Expect a full write up. MBC for dummies style

[Captain KRM P5]

we also carry the ATP BCD, its listed in the ms6 section

[mrlilguy157]

i originated this setup (as far as i know). i don't understand why people have so many questions. there is like 300 threads about this across the ms3/ms6 boards.

yes cap off the upper nipple and the boost solenoid. run the MBC inline from factory vac line to wastegate, to the wastegate.

ATP boost cut killer is easy install if the engine is cold and there is ample daylight outside.

anyone is welcome to call or PM me ANYTIME.

jonathan martin
214.957.0461

[laloosh]

I did this last night and the gains are AMAZING. IM running 19-20psi in the top gears. 1st gear is hitting 15 psi, 2nd is hitting 17-18, 3rd is hitting 19 and the rest are hitting 19-20psi. 1st gear is pretty much just tire smoke, if you want you can power through 2nd and kiss it good bye, hold your breath in 3rd cause thats when the pull really begins. I monitored my a/f ratios with an aem wideband and they're are dipping into the 10.5 uptop so no harm what so ever.

As for the install you will need the following.
1/4 inch vacum line about 4 feet.
Vacum caps from your local autozone, i bought the value pack with differnt sizes for 6 bucks
ATP Fuel cut defender: 75 bucks
Turbosmart boost controller: 60 bucks (you can pick you own obviously)

The atp install is straight forward but very tight to get too, it comes with instruction so just follow them. Here is what it looks like installed.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/laloosh04/DSC00465.jpg
Notice the brass color nipple, thats where the pressure is bled off after 15.6 psi.

Now for the mbc install. I hope you have small hands and ALOT of time cause you will be cursing, climbing up and down you car and bleeding. lol
First remove the ic and battery/battery box. (if you dont know how to do this, send whatever you bought back cause your nto ready to to mess with this)
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/laloosh04/DSC00474.jpg
Once thats all said and done, locate the wastegate, it will have a hose on the bottom and on top.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/laloosh04/DSC00468.jpg
The top thinner hose, remove, follow it and remove it from the selonoid it attaches too. Cap both of these.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/laloosh04/DSC00471.jpg
here you can see the cap on the selanoid.
The bottom thicker hose, remove, its only about 2 inches long, follow it to the compressor housing on the turbo, you cant see the nipple, but remove it. Cut the Vacum line you bought in half, attach one half to the compressor housing let the other half dangle. Attached the 2 piece (of the line you cut in half) to the bottom of the waste gate and let it hang. IT should look like this
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j299/laloosh04/DSC00476.jpg
Read the instruction on your MBC, connect to two to the proper sides, one is from the mbc to the wastegate and one is from the compressor to the mbc. Dont reverse these line or else your screwed. Put it all back together and take it for a spin, SLOWLY getting ont he gas to see where your boost stops. Once you figure that out, turn it up and down. I suggest doing it in 4th gear. Happy motoring. This is by far the biggest gain i have felt on this car.

[shucky]

Laloosh thanks for posting that up. Any issues since the install? Power still smooth or do you get that giant jump at part throttle normally associated with MBC's? No driveability issues then? Any throttle plate closure to reduce boost in 1st and 2nd gear? With your driving skills you may very well have the quickest MS3 on the board!

[laloosh]

Laloosh thanks for posting that up. Any issues since the install? Power still smooth or do you get that giant jump at part throttle normally associated with MBC's? No driveability issues then? Any throttle plate closure to reduce boost in 1st and 2nd gear? With your driving skills you may very well have the quickest MS3 on the board!

well its been about 80 miles (i had a lot of errands to run last night last) and the car performs great. Drives just like stock when you drive normal, at wot throttle it drives the same as well....just faster lol.
Neway if anybody knows a thing or two about srt4s, i race my buddies last night
cai, 3 in dp, upped boost 18spike 15 hold, stage 1 ecu, big fmic. Im not sure what an srt4 with thos mods traps but from 50-130 neither of us could tell who won so we called it a tie. IT was a great race as the gearing is completly different. When i had to shift he was at his prime, when he had to shift i was at my prime. We did a 40-130 and he pulled a car in 2nd and through 3rd, the he stayed ahead that 1 car till 130. The 50 to 130 was a tie and the 60-130 was me pulling 1/2 car. The srt4 has a stronger second gear.

[mrlilguy157]

With your driving skills you may very well have the quickest MS3 on the board!

pffffft......

[laloosh]

not to sound like a dick but why the pft? I posted my times and slips with just a cai and hollowed out 2nd cat and i went 13.6 @ 103 wiht a 2.05 60. I have yet see something lower besides the guy who is fully modded, tuned, on meth that went 13.2 @ 111

btw yes i know there are guys that are faster, they just never seem to go to the track. This is kind of like offical time slip kinda thing.

[mrlilguy157]

not to sound like a dick but why the pft? I posted my times and slips with just a cai and hollowed out 2nd cat and i went 13.6 @ 103 wiht a 2.05 60. I have yet see something lower besides the guy who is fully modded, tuned, on meth that went 13.2 @ 111

btw yes i know there are guys that are faster, they just never seem to go to the track. This is kind of like offical time slip kinda thing.

there ya go. you answered your own question.

[laloosh]

so if anything pft should go to the poepel who mod their cars and never actaully run them....not to me

[shucky]

didn't mean to cause a ruckus, just giving props to laloosh who does run his car and does so quite well from the slips he posted. lil guy has lil guy complex.
dont hate, appreciate.

[oskinosmee]

Well i did this mod today using laloosh's how to and laloosh thanks buddy very well detailed. It was a pain in the a$$ to do but it is worth all 3hours it took me. I recommend this mod as it seems to a nice gain. I boost at 1.15 kpa in first which is 16 and change i think, 1.23=17.5 2nd, 3rd thru 6th 1.26 18 with spikes of 1.41=20.

[northmiler89]

Anyone located in or around RI (Mass or Ct) that would be interested in installing this for me..? I can lend a hand but i do not have the tools to pull this off.. if anyone is interested let me know. obviously i am willing to pay $.

i already have the bcd and the mbc and boost guage are coming in this week.

i would rather pay someone to help me out than go to a tuning shop around here an have to pay like $70 an hour..

[laloosh]

honestly I think you should do it yourself and follow the write ups. just buy a 40 dollar tool set from sears. I would help but your too far away....and I work for pizza and beer not money lol

[northmiler89]

honestly I think you should do it yourself and follow the write ups. just buy a 40 dollar tool set from sears. I would help but your too far away....and I work for pizza and beer not money lol

i can buy pizza, just not beer (2thumbs)

i dont have a jack either.

what parts other than the mbc and bcd did you guys need?

i know vac hose and vac plugs, can you pick those both up at pepboys?

how long did it take? around 3-4 hours?

[oskinosmee]

It took me like 3 hours with 2 trips to the store

[northmiler89]

but you DO have to get under the car?

[laloosh]

no, you dont need a jack. All you need is basic sockets and allen wrenches

[northmiler89]

no, you dont need a jack. All you need is basic sockets and allen wrenches

no shit.. someone origingally said be prepared to be up and down on the car alot..figured that ment under- i will have to give it a try

btw- vac hoses and plugs: can get them at pepboys?

[laloosh]

no shit.. someone origingally said be prepared to be up and down on the car alot..figured that ment under- i will have to give it a try

btw- vac hoses and plugs: can get them at pepboys?

yea i said that, meaning climbing into your engine bay with your knees on the vavle cover lol. its really hard to get too but its a simple concept. yes you can get the stuff at pepboys

[TRSpeed3]

yea i said that, meaning climbing into your engine bay with your knees on the vavle cover lol. its really hard to get too but its a simple concept. yes you can get the stuff at pepboys

Looking at your sig i am confused now...you got a boost cut defender or a fuel cut defender??

[SharkDiver]

Looking at your sig i am confused now...you got a boost cut defender or a fuel cut defender??

Its the same thing..

[Infantrylowlife]

what is MBC and ATP BCD?

[Captain KRM P5]

what is MBC and ATP BCD?

manual boost controller and ATP boost cut defender