Beginning to loose hope on the MS3

[funkyman]

I don`t know about EXEDE,this and that pipe and intercooler what not but,whats really dissapointing is that although its been almost a full year since this MS3 has been sold in the USA,no one or motorsports company has been neither able to develop or come out with a true reliable bolt on turbo and ECU upgrade that works or renders at least a 100hp at the crank so. I`m actually really dismal about it.No one can really tune these DI TURBO CARS or rather their ECU`s,not enough thorough knowledge or research and effort is being done by the sponsoring vendors when more so than not,this is the flagship race car of Mazda if not ,the quickest from 0-60 and the best looking and popular.In the Usa alone i`m sure there are 5000 potential customers looking for a true Turbo upgrade Kit like AA has for the BMW`s and i see that its not really getting much attention from HKS,AEM and Greddy who are the leaders in the Japanese tuning industry and Japanese cars.
It simply appears that a DI turbo engine is really not upgradeable and that goes for GM and VW cars as well.Example Soltice and Saturn Sky turbos.We need some true Engine management gurus to look into this like the guy from AEM at HPF who cracked the Siemens ECU on the M54 E46 M3.(sad1)What i mean is tuning without using other types of fuel etc but pump gas.

[Captain KRM P5]

I don`t know about EXEDE,this and that pipe and intercooler what not but,whats really dissapointing is that although its been almost a full year since this MS3 has been sold in the USA,no one or motorsports company has been neither able to develop or come out with a true reliable bolt on turbo and ECU upgrade that works or renders at least a 100hp at the crank so. I`m actually really dismal about it.No one can really tune these DI TURBO CARS or rather their ECU`s,not enough thorough knowledge or research and effort is being done by the sponsoring vendors when more so than not,this is the flagship race car of Mazda if not ,the quickest from 0-60 and the best looking and popular.In the Usa alone i`m sure there are 5000 potential customers looking for a true Turbo upgrade Kit like AA has for the BMW`s and i see that its not really getting much attention from HKS,AEM and Greddy who are the leaders in the Japanese tuning industry and Japanese cars.
It simply appears that a DI turbo engine is really not upgradeable and that goes for GM and VW cars as well.Example Soltice and Saturn Sky turbos.We need some true Engine management gurus to look into this like the guy from AEM at HPF who cracked the Siemens ECU on the M54 E46 M3.(sad1)What i mean is tuning without using other types of fuel etc but pump gas.

if you think the aftermarket for the MS3 or MS6 is poor, its a good thing you never owned a Mazdaspeed Protege.

There are alot of reasons why the kinds of things you mention don't happen in the way we'd like nor the timeline we'd like. One, Mazdas have been traditionally niche cars. The brand simply doesn't have the kind of tuner charisma or reputation that the other import or even domestic brands have. Part of the problem is factory encouragement. The big 3 US makers have decent programs in place at the dealer level to encourage people to modify thier cars. Honda, Nissan, Scion do and have had those kinds of programs in place for years. Until very recently, with Mazda's purchase of Mazdaspeed and the whole "zoom zoom" campaign, Mazda really did nothing to encourage the end user to modify the car. Thats where alot of the enthusiasm begins for modifying a car. When the brand itself lacks the image of a vehicle that can and should be played with, fewer people that want to modify cars are even going to think about buying one. Look at GM Performance and Mopar Performance. They make no apologies about pushing thier performance parts in all the right places right down to the dealer parts counter. It took Mazda over a year to get the parts in thier Mazdaspeed catalog into physical warehouse inventory. Its shameful and halfassed and I've always felt that way about their performance parts program. Its an afterthought. For companies like Mopar, its a priority.

Two, because so few companies have focused on Mazdas outside of the Miata in the last decade, there are no companies really with the kind of knowledge to attack the platforms head on and make real quick and decent progress. Mazda ECUs are traditionally very hard to crack. The Accessport has been promised for almost a year now and we still have next to nothing. But on a Subaru, Cobb can whip out an Accessport with relative ease because they know those cars like the back of thier hand. Mazda has few dedicated tuners with that kind of goal or talent. Cobb has years of experience with Subaru. We don't have that kind of support in the Mazda community. Sure you have your Flyin Miatas with Miatas and Racing Beats with RX-7s but thats about it with a few exceptions and they're focused on those particular cars. Its growing, but its not yet at those levels. I hate to use the phrase but "its not a honda".

Direct Injection is perfectly tunable to make real power. Carburetor gurus said the same things when EFI hit the market, no one can make power with those fancy injectors, you need a good old fashioned Holley to make power! Time proved them wrong. Diesel operates on similar principles and there is tons of companies making amazing power with those engines. Direct Injection has been mainstream in affordable cars for a very short time now, and until its more mainstream or its been proven to most companies that people are actually going to modify these cars, few companies and fewer big name companies are going to want to invest in researching and producing parts for them. You mention HKS and AEM and other Japanese companies. They're not going to bat an eye at any Mazda lacking the words "miata" or "rx7" in the title until they can see what people are doing with these cars and that there is a market for them. I think, in time, the Mazdaspeed3 will help change that perception.

It should also be noted that tacking on 100hp at the crank has been done a bunch of times by more than a few people with both the ms6 and ms3. I myself am working on a bunch of stuff for this car, just because I don't talk about it doesn't mean things aren't in the works. I am the kind of guy who doesn't like to talk about things until there are results.

Give it time, there will be more parts for this car in a year than you know what to do with. Honestly, based on my experience with Mazda, I'm amazed there is this much support for the cars so far.

[kura808]

^^ totally agreed xD remember that all those other import companies have been in the aftermarket since the late 80's or so. maybe earlier..i like mazda because its an unique car. not that many people drive it and we're always surprising people as well. just look at all the comments when people compare us to subarus and mitsubishis especially people wit MSPs and P5s. i love their stupidity xP just the other day, some1 asked ooo is that the new subaru?...deep down i was dying from laughter.

o yea u musnt forget our prideful race heritage xD love this commercial hehe http://youtube.com/watch?v=C_goFIeOWPw

anywayz, just sit back and give it some time. cant expect every1 to make new things wit just one yr of development...good things take time..just look at that thread wit the 500+ mazda3...that fricken turbo gives me the willies hahaha.

[joka1]

Their is a 500+ HP MS3 with pics and dyno's out right now. True the MS3 should have had alot more upgrades by now with the very positive consumer report reviews and the power they produce for a FWD car.
Like Captain said try owning a protege......... To reach 400 WHP is a bitch

Give it some more time and I am sure at least one big turbo manufacture will make a good upgrade!

Rob

[6262MS3]

Um, try owning a KL-series V6. In the mid 90's it was in the Probe GT, MX6, 626 and a smaller cousin in the MX3. Sweetheart little motor with tons of potential (~300whp on 10psi), yet the aftermarket completely ignored it. Megasquirt is one of very few ECU tuning options (NOT pnp!!), the odd turbo/sc kit would pop up but rarely make production. People just need to be patient with the ms3, at least some big companies are actually working on parts for this car and considering it's limited numbers they're not going to throw their entire r&d department at it.

[BluMicaR]

I came from a 1994 Thunderbird LX (V8) and if it wasn't a Mustang or Camaro you don't get sheet for mods. My MS3 to me, since I haven't been in the tuner world, spins my head how much there is just this soon after launch. It's crazy!

I've got the following things I'm going for, and should be able to get 315ish whp after it's done (estimates):
Port/Polish: 30whp
CAI/SRI: 15whp
Turboback: 30whp
Intercooler: 20whp

That's assuming I'm throwing about 230whp stock, and the numbers are based on manufacturer Dyno's, but for the Port and that's an estimate I feel is safe. Down the line I want a computer to mess with my AFR and stuff. Also, C-PE is working on this:

"MZR Hybrid Turbocharger

Coming Soon: Hitachi-Warner K04 Turbocharger upgrade

CPE is currently developing a hybrid turbocharger upgrade for the SPEED6 capable of safely eclipsing the 300whp mark. The stock turbocharger works well in stock trim, but becomes inadequate once power levels being to increase. It simply cannot flow the amount of air required for better than 300hp, and trying to do so will result in a lot of hot air and/or a wrecked turbocharger.

Though the parameters may change as the project progresses, we would like to retain the stock turbine housing and keep changes to the compressor side. This will allow the turbocharger to be used on stock style exhaust flanges, so no specific manifold or downpipe will be required.

We will keep updating this page with news as the project moves on.

-Custom Performance Engineering Staff."

Hang in there, next year at this time there will be all kinds of stuff available!

[subparpunk03]

Just be patient. the first EMS systems you see are not going to be as good and clean because they have been pushed out the door to beat everyone else to market. The good stuff is coming, some very smart people are working on it, but it takes a long time to get these products done right.

[funkyman]

Thanx for the good moral and support.I`m a patient man so i`ll keep my fingers crossed and wait.

[dkswim]

dude its only been one year, it will come, its like any new vehicle, srt-4 didnt get any real outside suport till there 2nd year out. Be patient it will come.

some reason i needed to add "If you build it, They will come"

[chriscecc914]

i agree funkyman on the small aftermarket. But we have to admit that things have picked up. Mostly everything you need to turn this car into a full blown race car is out except a fuel system and some drivetrain parts. Both of which are under research right now.

[Kurt07]

I remember when I got my Lancer (non-Evo) back in 2002. There was almost nothing for the car. After a couple of years, their was plenty of parts out there including 2 bolt on turbo kits, 1 short lived supercharger kits, 4 coilover kits (not coilover sleeves), and all the other parts that you could want to put on that car. I am actually pleased to see the amount of parts available for the MS3. It could be worse.

[Bufalo]

The engine is brand new, the car is brand new. No one can have parts out immediately! Wow... I remember when I got my E36 M3 in '04, when the car had been out NINE YEARS, and tuner shops were still unlocking very, very simple secrets to making the car faster. RELAX!!!!!!!

Think about it, the EVO's are only stocked with stuff because that engine has been in every freakin' Mitsubishi for the last 15 years. Subaru's are fast because the factory supports BIG DOLLAR rally teams. The SBC has been basically the same SINCE THE 50's. If you're depressed already that you can't get 7,000 HP out of your MS3 6 months after you bought it, I'd rather you sold it to someone else who will appreciate it. Shit, the car ALREADY has too much power for the amount of available traction, why do we want more?





And MOST WORD to the other KL owner. Trying to make power out of that engine without turbocharging was soooooo frustrating. Sure did sound good, though. :) I miss my MX-6's.

[snookwheel]

It simply appears that a DI turbo engine is really not upgradeable and that goes for GM and VW cars as well.Example Solstice and Saturn Sky turbos..

I have a 2007 Solstice GXP, it's a Turbo with DI. BSR just started selling an ECU tune through Hahn racecraft in the US. I received mine last week!!! 260 Hp stock, now 315 after the tune. It is one fast little roadster now!!

I guess the message is that DI Turbos ARE tunable. Just gotta get the product out on the market for us. I would love to do some real tweaking to my MSP3!!(drive)

If anyone is interested, here's a link to the BSR product for the 2.0 Sky Redline. Same engine as the Solstice GXP: http://en.bsrab.se/products/

[pmeilakjr]

Some of the problems we face with the MS3 are the low production numbers – only 5,000 US. I owned two Miata’s, what a group of owners. Just the Los Angelus chapter had over 350 members and San Diego had another 300. That was in 1997. The first year alone (1990) I think they sold 50,000 and the same holds true for the following 10 years – with that kind of numbers the tuners like Racing Beat, Flying Miata and Jackson racing moved from other models and flocked to the Miata. Money was to be made.

The other problem we have is getting respect from the vendors. Again relatively low numbers doesn’t help. Granted the same motor is used in the CX7 and the Speed 6 which I would have thought would help – but most CX7 owners really don’t look for a performance boost. What about the MS6 – love the car but the 2006 model needed an 8,000 off sticker to sell it off the lot. Let’s not talk the cause – buy what you say you are going to buy when new products are being offered for the first time.

So - blame Mazda for only making 5,000 - that is the price of exclusivity.

Another example – you got me started!

Take the XEDE – made by Vishnue tuning – sold by others. Vishnue won’t even sell the product they make because again –low numbers. Vishnue was once a Subaru only vendor, and now Mitsubishi because of the EVO. What really makes me pissed is that they now have developed the newer Procede engine management system for the BMW 335 and 535’s. Why – because these owners want more out of their cars and are willing to shell out lots of cash for it. Oh – and I forgot –BMW just doesn’t make 5,000 of them.

Again - take Vishnue –I was a little confused as to why the Xede had the Vishnue logo on it but was never mentioned on their website only on the BEGi website. Called and emailed BEgi – no answer. Called Vishnue and had two reply’s in a day with answers about it and they had plans to produce the Procede chip for our MS3. That was back in May and I’ve called them on numerous occasions to get more info and now get the run around. They have not moved any closer to the Procede. Why – Lack of interest – we need more members.

Want things to change – do something about it. Call or email Vishnue and let them know you are interested in the Procede for the MS3 and MS6. If we can get 100 members to commit at 1,000 a piece - that's $100,000 – no longer small potatoes.

Last example – at the end of 2008 – there will be 10,000 MS3’s sold in the US, if 10% of the owners want an upgrade that’s only 1,000. If you want to be optimistic – say 20% want to upgrade their car and VOID their warranty. I think VOIDed warranty plays an important part to the after market community. And we have a 5 year – 60,000 mile one standard (engine and drive train). That is a tough sell.

I can go on about Honda’s and Toyota’s but I think you get my point. How much money is to be made can only be supported by the volume of cars sold

I love my little car - and smile every day.

Cheers

Peter

[Falconx84]

i agree with the whole production numbers deal -- that and I don't know about anyone else here, but I limit myself to $100-200 per month for upgrades so I can afford my payment/insurance and still afford to eat, lol

I don't exactly have $1000 to lay down AND void my warranty so any repairs come out of pocket

[funkyman]

Warranty shouldn`t be an issue if you are taking good care of your car,not driving like a mad man and that is taking it to the race track every week and ususally uprades are reversable.Warranty?What warranty.

[knowledge007]

Thats what I have been preaching Funky...warranty sucks ass on this car...3 years 36 on a new speed model..wtf...

[BluMicaR]

Thats what I have been preaching Funky...warranty sucks ass on this car...3 years 36 on a new speed model..wtf...

Noooo sh it, and hallelujah brother.

WTF MazdaUSA, er, Ford?!

At this point I'll be over my warranty period in 2 years from purchase - I got it in May and I already have 4500 miles.

Worst. Warranty. Ever.

[Captain KRM P5]

i dont know of many performance minded cars with a great warranty. the SRT-4 had a 3/36 as does the STi and EVO if i am not mistaken.

[tru-boost]

dont get your hopes up.... i know TRZ Motorsports is helping out in every way they can to get us some good parts.
things too look for soon...
a liquid/air intercooler kit
underdrive pulleys.

[civic si hb]

i dont know of many performance minded cars with a great warranty. the SRT-4 had a 3/36 as does the STi and EVO if i am not mistaken.




Evo is 4 years 50,000 miles. The only reason i know that is my friend just bought a 9 MR and he's slower on the highway, lol

[Kurt07]

Mitsubishi doesn't like to honor the warranty of the Evolutions. Just ask any Evo owner who has ever tried to have warranty work done.

[Antonio DiMarco]

Noooo sh it, and hallelujah brother.

WTF MazdaUSA, er, Ford?!

At this point I'll be over my warranty period in 2 years from purchase - I got it in May and I already have 4500 miles.

Worst. Warranty. Ever.

Mazda is simply putting itself in line with Toyota and Honda, both who have 3/36 bumper to bumper. Remember the Speed 3 DOES have a 5/60 on Powertrain.

I suppose you would buy a Dodge becasue of their "lifetime" warranty. Anyone whose paid attention to history will see that the majority of cmpanie who offer long warranties are the ones who have the most problems.

[bbychvz]

It simply appears that a DI turbo engine is really not upgradeable and that goes for GM and VW cars as well..

I have an issue of Sport compact Car that has at least 5(five) different tuners
that modded the hell out of the VW GTI about 3 to 4 months before it was in show rooms.. and yes I think @ least 2 of them went above adding 100hp to the crank(nuts)

[funkyman]

Thats what I have been preaching Funky...warranty sucks ass on this car...3 years 36 on a new speed model..wtf...

I took an extended warranty 6 years 72 months good luck to you guys.(cheers2)

[BluMicaR]

Mazda is simply putting itself in line with Toyota and Honda, both who have 3/36 bumper to bumper. Remember the Speed 3 DOES have a 5/60 on Powertrain.

I suppose you would buy a Dodge becasue of their "lifetime" warranty. Anyone whose paid attention to history will see that the majority of cmpanie who offer long warranties are the ones who have the most problems.

No, I wouldn't buy a Dodge. I could never do that to my Mazda. :) I had a 3 before this, and I want to keep THIS 3 forever. I shopped around a LOT before I bought my first 3 in '05, and I was set in stone by the time I got it, after 3 months of consumer reports, every online review of all cars under 30k I could get my hands on...

So if the powertrain is 5/60, and powertrain includes the engine, transmission, driveshafts, differentials, and the final drive, wtf is 3/36?

The body and headlights, interior stuff??

[funkyman]

3/36 is bumper to bumper including 02 sensors,all electrical,ECU,fuses,headlights,paint everything,interior.Anything that the cars is made of:-)

[funkyman]

dont get your hopes up.... i know TRZ Motorsports is helping out in every way they can to get us some good parts.
things too look for soon...
a liquid/air intercooler kit
underdrive pulleys.



Are you taking the mick(eyeballs)

[pmeilakjr]

Ok - I have had two days of driving to cool off. Did I say I love this car. Mazda moved from a 3 year / 36,000 mile warranty to 4 year / 50,000 mile a few years back to compete with the upscale brands. However, for 2007 they changed again and offered a dual warranty of 3 year / 36,000 mile bumper to bumper and a 5 year / 60,000 power train warranty. I think it's a good move on Mazda's part but I would like for them to keep the 4 year / 50,000 BTB too.

As for the tuner market - with our limited production numbers - it will take some time to see if we can convince them we are a true buying power. In the meantime - we must continue to support the companies that provide the specialty products for our cars - this way the see an interest and continue to stock and produce new products for our cars.

I think it would be great to get a few clubs going - this is one of the best ways to show off your car and to get others interested in modify theirs. The club scene makes this work - 1) lets other owners see what mods are out there, 2) lets others talk to the owners of the mods, was it easy? How does it sound? 3) and I can go on but you get my point. When I had my miata, the miata clubs really had a thing going. They set up driving events, Saturday project days, weekend getaways and on and on. I'm sure the Mazda 3 owners are out there but to what degree do they want a club. Maybe one weekend a month or every other month. I would love to start something but my priories in life are mainly my two kids right now (ages 3 and 1) maybe a few years back this would have been a project to get going.

Funny thing - I live near Irvine, CA and just about every Saturday a bunch of car guys get together at the Mazda Corporate office to show off their cars - mind you not Mazda's. Porsche's, Ferraris and other high-end cars.

You guys (and gals) are a great bunch, and thanks for listening.

Cheers!

Peter

[Antonio DiMarco]

3/36 is bumper to bumper including 02 sensors,all electrical,ECU,fuses,headlights,paint everything,interior.Anything that the cars is made of:-)

Never had anything but small issues at the beginning (covered under warranty within inte 1st 2 years) and then small issues at 100,000+ (blown dash lights, frozen window regulators, uneven idleing).

I'm more concerned about the this being my first turbo car and the how reliablle/durable the turbo pieces are going to be. I'm less worried about the clutch and engine becasue I don't plan on racing this car.

[justhavnfun]

I came from a 1994 Thunderbird LX (V8) and if it wasn't a Mustang or Camaro you don't get sheet for mods. My MS3 to me, since I haven't been in the tuner world, spins my head how much there is just this soon after launch. It's crazy!

I've got the following things I'm going for, and should be able to get 315ish whp after it's done (estimates):
Port/Polish: 30whp
CAI/SRI: 15whp


who told you you will get 30 whp from a port and polish?! port and polish of a forced induction engine is money fed through a shreader. i think you're going to be disappointed but good luck! oh and i wouldn't put to much into the cai and exhaust upgrade either. cat back exhaust upgrades don't produce much whp. i know thats not a popular opinion on here but it's true. again good luck. :)

[justhavnfun]

Mitsubishi doesn't like to honor the warranty of the Evolutions. Just ask any Evo owner who has ever tried to have warranty work done.

i believe that! my son had a tiny rust spot on his mitsubishi eclipse and we brought it in to fix it under warranty. it was only two yrs old. they acted as if they were replacing the entire car! had to wait for the area mitsu. rep to CSI the car. very poor warranty!

[cornflaykes]

These guys should have something nice for our cars at SEMA... I will be ther to get all the info and photo's!!!

http://www.cobbtuning.com/images_products/MazdaSpeed3_COBB.jpg

[Captain KRM P5]

cobb has the springs, swaybars and intake out for the car. i'd like to see more from them too.

[shamrock]

cobb has the springs, swaybars and intake out for the car. i'd like to see more from them too.

Well from the pic above it looks like they will have a FMIC. One thing that I believe hurts the aftermarket for this car is that there are only made for 2 yrs
2007=5,000 units
2008=25,000

So thats 25,000 in the US. Thats not a really big market to go after

Mazda--aftermarket
...(poke)

[Captain KRM P5]

bigger than the MSPs production run though, and there is a good bit of support all things considered for that car.

[Falconx84]

Well from the pic above it looks like they will have a FMIC. One thing that I believe hurts the aftermarket for this car is that there are only made for 2 yrs
2007=5,000 units
2008=25,000

So thats 25,000 in the US. Thats not a really big market to go after

Mazda--aftermarket
...(poke)

so... 5,000 + 25,000 = 25,000?

I don't know the numbers for 2008, but for 2007 I believe it was 5,000 units to North America. Keep in mind that the rest of the world has their version of the speed3 as well -- I don't know how many the rest of the world got

[CitizenPro]

I cant believe im seeing this thread.......

Try being an MSP owner (boom08) ...Hope was gone long ago my friend. We struggle to survive now.

[jred321]

welcome to the world of owning a limited production car. and a mazda that isn't an rx7 or miata. there will probably be a few more products developed here and there and everything you need will be available but you're not going to have the choice you would if you owned a more common vehicle. on the plus side you don't see your car everywhere which some people think is worth the trade off (confused)

[speed3shon]

i dunno which id rather have... everyone and their mother having the car, or everyone and their mother making parts for the car...

[AJ08]

i like having a limited production vehical.. i just traded in my 2004 ford svt focus comp orange for the speed 3 and the aftermarket sucked for the svt too.. soo im kinda use to it.. i think its a traded off having a badass speed 3 that most ppl dont know are turboed..(eekdance)