Idea for Xede.... advice needed

[palerider]

OK I really want this thing and had an idea.

Hypothetically lets say that I was playing around with hydrochloric acid and dropped it all over the wires where Xede would be cut in. How would that be fixed?

Is there a part number for all the wires that come out of the ECU. What if the whole wiring harness could be replaced. My idea is that I would have one harness that has Xede wired in without PNP, and then for warranty work or if I ever trade the car.... Id have an entire backup factory harness to plug back into the car.

Where is my thinking convoluted here. I have to believe that if my wires fryed or melted that there would be a replacement part available to replace it. What if Xede could be ordered along with an entire new OEM harness on the side to swap in and out.

Thoughts?

[Abaddon]

I think you are correct, in theory.. but I would assume that the full wiring harness for the Mazda3 would be quite limiting in its expensiveness.

+ you would have to disconnect not only the ecu, but all the other ends of the harness to swap them out, and I don't even want to think about how long that might take...

[palerider]

I think you are correct, in theory.. but I would assume that the full wiring harness for the Mazda3 would be quite limiting in its expensiveness.

+ you would have to disconnect not only the ecu, but all the other ends of the harness to swap them out, and I don't even want to think about how long that might take...

I was thinking in terms of the wires AND the harness. Do the wires plug directly into the ECU? or is there some sort of harness on both ends? Ive never looked closely at this.... if you had to estimate the TIME involved, what would you say?

For now.... lets just say the cost of such a thing is irrelevant. I cant imagine that it would be more than a grand, and that I could stomach..... unless PNP is released a week later. Then that would hurt. If thats to be the case... then a PM wink from Ken would be appreciated. LOL.

[palerider]

I just realized that what your saying is that wires would have to be replaced all through the engine back to their sources. Am I correct? Doesnt Xede go in BEFORE the ECU to alter the signals. Now Im confused.

I know this is potentially a stupid thread, but some elaboration on what you said earlier would be appreciated.

Even if this was a massive undertaking.... knowing that Xede was in fact reversible, even if only once helps soften the blow. I keep fearing that if I do this than I would have to explain it when and if it ever got traded or sold. This could potentially devalue the car like crazy in the years to come.

[cmahlig]

well after the wires leave the ecu dont they spread out across the engine? that would take hours to grab all those wires

[StephanieT]

The Harness can only be purchased with the stock ECU. Tried that. The cost of the ECU is around $1700. We have had two ECU's replaced under warranty (on Miatas) that had wires spliced into them. Do not know how the owner presented it to the dealer though.
Stephanie

[Metal MP5]

i swapped wiring harness on my MSP last year ... it's alot of work. In the protegé, there were ~3 big connectors under the passenger floor panel and behind the console. Then there's the wire that goes all the way back to the gaz tank (under the rear seat) for the fuel pump. + all the connectors in the engine bay for every sensor had to be disconnected. It was a pain but in the end it fixed my problem =)

Sooo ... i would suggest that, unless they make some kind of PNP harness, that you plan your install well to make it as easy as possible to remove and put the wiring back to stock.. Once you take out your piggyback and close the floor panel and everything else (assuming it's under there in the MS3), i am pretty sure the guys at the dealer won't go looking under there "just for the hell of it"

[Metal MP5]

oh and btw, my mazda dealer wanted like 1400$ for a new harness so i picked one up from a Protegé ES from a scrap yard for 100$ and fixed up a few of the connectors to make it fit in the MSP

[redspeed]

I thinks it would be cheaper and less labor intensive to just hide your work really good. I doubt the dealer tech would notice, depending of what kind of work he's doing.

[Metal MP5]

well if they hook up to the obdII port, which i'm sure they do every time you bring the car in, he may see some things you don't want him to see. maybe it will record higher boost levels, different AFRs, etc, something that can make him want to dig deeper

[redspeed]

It's already been discussed before in this forum that the ecu don't record any of those things. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Metal MP5]

i never followed MS3/MS6 talks because i didnt think i would get one. but now i am...lol i have alot of catching up to do

[Haltech]

i never followed MS3/MS6 talks because i didnt think i would get one. but now i am...lol i have alot of catching up to do


Ask away, ill lend ya a hand :)

[StephanieT]

well if they hook up to the obdII port, which i'm sure they do every time you bring the car in, he may see some things you don't want him to see. maybe it will record higher boost levels, different AFRs, etc, something that can make him want to dig deeper

Stuff like that can't be read thru the OBDII port. That would require a black box, I believe. The Xede leaves no trace of being there.
Stephanie

[fourthmeal]

Stuff like that can't be read thru the OBDII port. That would require a black box, I believe. The Xede leaves no trace of being there.
Stephanie

If I recall correctly from our training, information can be read through the OBDII port like that, but it isn't recorded by the ECU (unless a problem occurs, triggering a code)

Basically there are many "monitors" in the OBDII system. These monitors look for deviations from standard operating parameters, and if one is out of spec for a certain period of time then it sets a CEL. This CEL can also turn off if the monitors do NOT see anything out of spec for typically 1-3 trips, but the code is stored in the ECU for later retrieval.

The software I present to shops has this info within it, so that should be correct (thought I might have phrased it wrong slightly)

Through OBDII CAN-BUS technology, virtually every sensor can be read off the OBDII port provided you have a device that can read it, but it is live datastream, and not constantly recorded forever (unless it runs out of spec and throws a code as mentioned above)

[palerider]

The Harness can only be purchased with the stock ECU. Tried that. The cost of the ECU is around $1700. We have had two ECU's replaced under warranty (on Miatas) that had wires spliced into them. Do not know how the owner presented it to the dealer though.
Stephanie

Sorry to revisit this.... but for 1700 you are saying that it could be done right? How long to swap Xede, or CPE standback, in and out if I purchased a second stock ECU. What would be involved?

Is the 1700 dealer cost or retail? Ive decided tonight that I want the first PNP EMS in MS3 land. $1700 seems reasonable. Im tired of waiting....

[Haltech]

Sorry to revisit this.... but for 1700 you are saying that it could be done right? How long to swap Xede, or CPE standback, in and out if I purchased a second stock ECU. What would be involved?

Is the 1700 dealer cost or retail? Ive decided tonight that I want the first PNP EMS in MS3 land. $1700 seems reasonable. Im tired of waiting....

Thats a lot of work Pale. Youre better off making yourself a quick connect bypass like what CPE offers.

[StephanieT]

Sorry to revisit this.... but for 1700 you are saying that it could be done right? How long to swap Xede, or CPE standback, in and out if I purchased a second stock ECU. What would be involved?

Is the 1700 dealer cost or retail? Ive decided tonight that I want the first PNP EMS in MS3 land. $1700 seems reasonable. Im tired of waiting....
I would have to send it to the harness maker to ensure that is it working properly. Once he returns the harness, we can wire in the Xede harness. $1700 was retail. OR, just hard wire one ECU and save the other for warranty issues.
Stephanie

[palerider]

I would have to send it to the harness maker to ensure that is it working properly. Once he returns the harness, we can wire in the Xede harness. $1700 was retail. OR, just hard wire one ECU and save the other for warranty issues.
Stephanie

I just got back from the dealer for some stuff and I think I'll wait on the 2nd ECU for now. I want EMS and I can always spend 1700 later to replace whatever I cut up.

So my last real question is how long would it take to replace the ECU with a new one, if for whatever reason I needed to? Can the ECU be replaced itself or would the entire engine bay need to be rewired? One seems quick the other looooong!!

Sorry Im acting like such a puss.... but cutting up my ECU seems like such a big step. Which is stupid because my warranty is basically gonna be shot within the next month or two anyway....lol. I still just want to know what I would be up against to return to stock if I HAD to.

[fourthmeal]

I just got back from the dealer for some stuff and I think I'll wait on the 2nd ECU for now. I want EMS and I can always spend 1700 later to replace whatever I cut up.

So my last real question is how long would it take to replace the ECU with a new one, if for whatever reason I needed to? Can the ECU be replaced itself or would the entire engine bay need to be rewired? One seems quick the other looooong!!

Sorry Im acting like such a puss.... but cutting up my ECU seems like such a big step. Which is stupid because my warranty is basically gonna be shot within the next month or two anyway....lol. I still just want to know what I would be up against to return to stock if I HAD to.

Well, here's an idea based on what you're wanting:

Take a wire (from the harness leading to the ECU that the standback needs) and cut it. Now, install a connector that is water-resistant (like molex type or something from Radio Shack) and wire one side of the connector on one side of your cut wire, and the other connector on the other side of your cut wire. This means you can reconnect those two wires back together simply by plugging the connector together, right?

Now, take the Xede or other standback wiring and take the same type of connector attach to each wire the appropriate male or female connector end. This means you essentially can plug the standback in, or disconnect it entirely. Do each wire carefully and one at a time, with either a different color connector or at least some sort of identifier like wrapped colored electrical tape. Match up the colors, and voila! You could even take this a tiny bit further and install a connector designed to run multiple wires at the same time.

By doing this and mating the correct "In" wires to the correct "Out" wires, you'd easily be able to plug in the standback and remove it, within minutes.

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-516m.jpg
http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-514m.jpg
http://www.molex.com/cmc_upload/0/000/-17/309/mx150l_intro.jpg

[palerider]

http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-516m.jpg
http://www.partsexpress.com/images/092-514m.jpg
http://www.molex.com/cmc_upload/0/000/-17/309/mx150l_intro.jpg

That is great. You wouldnt need the "bypass" that comes with the standback if you wired it this way would you? And after taking the EMS out the only thing left in the bay would be just the clip you posted... you need like 20 wires for the standback right? You could probably do it with just one clip.

One of my neighbors is an electrician whose semi retired.... Im gonna have him look at this.... I hate jerryrigged shit. I want this to look factory and be able to be swapped out in under a minute.

Thanks for your reply.

[fourthmeal]

I don't know how many wires, but I imagine 1/2 of them go to the ECU, and 1/2 come from the ECU. As an interceptor, of course. So it makes sense that a single connector per wiring bunch could do it. My suggestion would be to do it yourself (it will still be PRO...but you can verify it was done right), one pin at a time. You cut a wire that you know you need to cut, and pull a little insulation off each side. Then crimp or solder on the pin. Then slide the pin in the connector, and it is complete on that side. Do the other side, one at a time again...you've got it in no time. Maybe an hour with a solder iron, if that? I recommend the Butane powered soldering irons available at Radio Shack. I've got a few of them, and they work in any condition.

Once you have the factory wiring pinned out, and wired properly, then you can reconnect the halves together again and verify perfect function as if you've not touched anything. From here, you can install the pins to the connector on the Xede harness, not even being installed in the car. From here, its a matter of truly plug-and-play.

[palerider]

That does sound easy.... holy cow.

Has anybody else done this?
Why isnt everybody doing it this way. This sounds like it would be the obvious method for everyone.....

[fourthmeal]

Perhaps if someone had a wiring breakdown I could get it more detailed. I'm merely going by experience in other fields involving wiring. Since this type of wiring doesn't depend on a signal like component video cables do (like 75 ohm coaxial issues), it makes sense that this type of connector should be doable. Meaning sometimes a connector could affect the signal in some way...but this time with this type of wiring I doubt that. I think the only time it could turn into a problem is if you use a non-outdoor connector, which could be a cause for corrosion and failure. Molex connectors are typically A-OK for outdoor or at least somewhat abusive environments.

[redrocketz]

Hey Palerider it wouldn't be that hard to wire in with some sort of removable harness but it would take some time because of the way the systems are wired in. You have to make sure the connectors are very good quality and have NO way of coming apart on their own. The ECU on your car is right next to the battery so not hard to get to at all.

[fourthmeal]

I think using these Molex-style connectors with each pin soldered in place should prove to be durable. You can also order these types of connectors in weather-proof versions. Problem potentially solved, IMO.

[StephanieT]

The black connectors pictured above would do the job well. The harness includes male/female spaded so that it can be unplugged rather fast. But they are slightly bulky and not as nice looking as the black connector.

It really is not hard to wire these in. The process spelled out above would work well. I would just add some heat shrink over all the connections, if possible.

If you swapped ECU's at a later point, you only remove the old and plug in the new. No new wiring to the engine bay is needed.
Stephanie

[JimmyMac]

Where can I get those black connectors in the picture? I need those for my XEDE. I've been wanting to do that for some time now.

I'm having trouble with one of my "T-taps". I think it's the power wire for the XEDE. Sometimes I'm driving the car and it'll stumble and stall out. Very dangerous while driving. I had no clue what was causing my car to do this randomly for the past several months. A few weeks ago it caused me to stall out in the middle of the road while pulling out of a side street. Luckily the car restarted and I pulled into a parking lot and found the problem. One of the T-taps is barely making a connection to the XEDE. I guess over time, the clamp on the wire either wore down the wire or the slot where it's suppose to make contact with the wire. So if you wiggle the wire/t-tap, the car will stumble and/or cut off. The XEDE looses power.

My temp fix for this was to get a piece of yarn/string, and kinda tie it around the wire and T-tap so that the wire doesn't move around in the t-tap/clamp. So far it has worked. But I need a more permanent solution. I was gonna solder in the wire. But I was hoping the XEDE would become PnP by now. I guess not. So my other option will be to use these connectors.

So does anyone have any links to buy them? Thanks for any help.

[fourthmeal]

you've gotta use the power of the internet, my man! Dig around and look for places that sell connectors and such. I found a few of them at www.partsexpress.com, but there are other places too.

I need to know how many wires go where for the standback, so we'll know what connector to get.

[JimmyMac]

I know I can use search. But I figure fellow Mazda members would know off hand and help out with answers. Saves me trouble looking for that specific one. Thanks for the link.

[fourthmeal]

I'm powerless to help without understanding where the wires go, and how many need to be connected. If someone has that information, I'll work for a solution.

[mooserov]

Painless makes aftermarket and custom built harnesses. They have a 12 circuit weatherpack pigtail connecter kit for less than 10 bucks. Built for conditions under the hood. Link goes to 6 circuit, but i think the pic is of a 3 circuit.
http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=70406