S.A. MSP's Twin Turbo Build Thread

[S.A.MSP]

Yes, that's right, TWIN TURBO, i have thought long and hard about this and i'm doing it, i have a good picture in my head about what i want my setup to look like but feel free to give suggestions :-) if i had artistic skills i would draw it out.


Stay tuned, more to come!!!



PS: if you don't have anything to say that makes sense, go rub one out and stay out of this thread :-) just a friendly warning!

[S.A.MSP]

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[S.A.MSP]

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[S.A.MSP]

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[starscream2k1]

Not sure what your thinking.. but maybe 2 smallish turbos (maybe twin 25's?) and have them facing opposite of each other. the intake wouldnt be hard since i assume your going standalone. Then have one of those intercoolers like the ones made for Nissan 350z (like 2 intakes and 1 outtake to go to the TB) mount that in the front. i would imagine something like that... make sure you get a standalone that can control boost BY GEAR (such as Haltech E8). That way in 1st gear your not hitting full boost and just spinning your wheels.

[cmahlig]

subbin, i think this is a great idea and shouldnt be too hard

[crashkelly]

Unless you are putting one small and one giant turbo on there isnt really any point (i assume that is your plan though). Plus make sure you have a bulletproof bottom end!

[starscream2k1]

correct me if i am wrong, but i dont think the bottom end is the main issue (like i mean for twins or even anything with some decent boost you need or should rather be forged and all that (so i agree you do need to be forged/built bottem end)) but putting that type of power thru the tranny. I mean that is more worry some.. lol.. i can only imagine the Tranny is gonna look like and if you have LSD oh boy... maybe a quaffe or something. I wonder how his turbo setup is going to be? twin same size? or twin sequential? etc....

[djarkitek]

well even though i dont see how this could work in my head since there are two many factors making this impossible. it would be cool to just see it done even though it were never really driven....or maybe turned on..but not driven, heh. sub

[Alejo_NIN]

it works
it will work
just think about it
in my head i can fit two turbos
with exhaust and all...
we can put one turbo in the front like the msp has and one turbo under the tranny next to the firewall.
or you could route the exhaust to the tranny side and put the turbos side to side and route the exhaust under the tranny.
intercooler wise, well, like someone else said, an intercooler that has to inlets and one 2 1/4" outlet...
very doable...
tunning should be the same...

you need all 4 cylinders pushing both turbos, not just 2 per turbo

[crashkelly]

it works
it will work
just think about it
in my head i can fit two turbos
with exhaust and all...
we can put one turbo in the front like the msp has and one turbo under the tranny next to the firewall.
or you could route the exhaust to the tranny side and put the turbos side to side and route the exhaust under the tranny.
intercooler wise, well, like someone else said, an intercooler that has to inlets and one 2 1/4" outlet...
very doable...
tunning should be the same...

you need all 4 cylinders pushing both turbos, not just 2 per turbo

Id have to guess that you'd need extra or bigger injectors if you are flowing that much air though...

[Alejo_NIN]

dude, the argument is how to fit the extra turbo....fuel ain';t an issue
i even think that at 9psi, the msp ecu is rich enough for both turbos...lol

[sandspeed]

twins?? I don't know about that, I would just go with one "big" or a bigger turbo if I were you.
Good luck though

[crashkelly]

twins?? I don't know about that, I would just go with one "big" or a bigger turbo if I were you.
Good luck though

the talk of twin turbos always seems to pop up once in awhile...If someone would actually do it and make it streetable it would be different and pretty cool in my opinion. But i dont forsee it happening.

[fr0st]

a 1JZGTE in a firends supra has twin turbo.. there toyota ct-12 and very tiny.. but theres no lag what so ever..

[MSP608]

what exactly are you thinking for your setup?

my opinion: only way you might be able to pull it off with two gt28rs's would be to get a awr half sized race radiator and fit one of the turbos where the stocker sits, then another off to about where brian mp5t has his turbo mounted. piping running down and over to the passenger side and meeting before the intercooler. then from the intercooler route it like the MAM intercooler is done through that hole on the driver side to the throttle body.

thats the only way i think it could work. you'd probably half to cut out some of your frame in the engine bay for the manifold/downpipes.

pointless project but power to ya if you pull it off.

[crashkelly]

what exactly are you thinking for your setup?

my opinion: only way you might be able to pull it off with two gt28rs's would be to get a awr half sized race radiator and fit one of the turbos where the stocker sits, then another off to about where brian mp5t has his turbo mounted. piping running down and over to the passenger side and meeting before the intercooler. then from the intercooler route it like the MAM intercooler is done through that hole on the driver side to the throttle body.

thats the only way i think it could work. you'd probably half to cut out some of your frame in the engine bay for the manifold/downpipes.

pointless project but power to ya if you pull it off.

yeah and if he goes the way of Brianmp5t he better be ready to make a giant custom manifold!

[fr0st]

what exactly are you thinking for your setup?

my opinion: only way you might be able to pull it off with two gt28rs's would be to get a awr half sized race radiator and fit one of the turbos where the stocker sits, then another off to about where brian mp5t has his turbo mounted. piping running down and over to the passenger side and meeting before the intercooler. then from the intercooler route it like the MAM intercooler is done through that hole on the driver side to the throttle body.

thats the only way i think it could work. you'd probably half to cut out some of your frame in the engine bay for the manifold/downpipes.

pointless project but power to ya if you pull it off.

problem is:

IMO, a 2.0 liter displacement engine wont be able to blow adequately in to 2 GT28rs's.... think of the lag.. you have to blow to 2 urbos.. if most stock twin turbo cars use tiny turbos must have a reason to be..

the bigger it is the more juice it needs.. imagine 2

[Alejo_NIN]

we hve already established that two gt28rs won't work

what's a smaller turbo?

[crashkelly]

problem is:

IMO, a 2.0 liter displacement engine wont be able to blow adequately in to 2 GT28rs's.... think of the lag.. you have to blow to 2 urbos.. if most stock twin turbo cars use tiny turbos must have a reason to be..

the bigger it is the more juice it needs.. imagine 2

yeah i dont get how you plan to do two giant turbos. I could understand a small one to reduce lag and a big one for more power...but it seems like two big ones would take an enormous time to spool. And I am not trying to flame your thread or say you cant do it. I am just putting in my 2 cents on what might be a better route.

[fr0st]

smaller turbos..

toyota CT-12 with ceramic turbine.. too rare..
msp stocker.. maybe
volks 1.8 T KKK unit.. you kick a tree and 5 fall off.. and theyre smaller than the msp stocker..

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

I think a T25R and a GT2871R will work... T25 for low speed, fast spooling, GT2871R Top end where the T25 Just runs out of air. that will be a deadly combo. I mean A T25 at full low speed is fucking amazing. imagine beign help at top end by hes near bigger brother.... these is the right setup men.. fuck 28RS dont understand why people sweat it so much.... Go big or go home.. you want big power and big numbers, forget about 28 series Turbos Jump with the big Boys.. GT30 or GT35 Turbo i really hate the 28rs, aint all that shit people thinks..

[1moreMPH]

Perhaps the small Jetta and a MSP stocker as the "big one"? Anyone know what sizes are the 300Z twins? Definitely route the piping so that the first turbo helps to spool the second.

And as far as intercoolers go... to save space is there any way for a top-mount or maybe a Vmount IC?

[S.A.MSP]

Ok, let me get this off my chest, HOLY FUCKIN SHIT!!!!! I start the thread, go to dinner and i have 3 pages waiting for me, thanks for stickin up for me and thanks for the opinions, i am dead serious about making this work, and it will.

i feel better now, few, ok, gt28rs' are too big, been talking to some people and twin stockers will work without any doubt, the twin inlet IC is a great idea but not too much room for the tubing, if you guys saw in my sig i already have a CS front mount with custom tubing, i will need a bigger intercooler of course, all the tubing will be reused, the hot pipes from the turbos will go two into one like a smooth bending Y tube then into the existing tubing, custom mani will be made alot tighter than the stock one, meaning the turbo's will sit closer to the motor and it will have dual exhaust run under either the motor or tranny with highflow cats or catless and light weight mufflers then will end somewhat in the middle under the car, as for intake, the 626 will work but looking forward to the CS mani, filtering will be ran the same way on both turbo's, just like the Injen CAI but on both sides, i will replace the windshield sprayer tank with a smaller tank and mount it somewhere else, the A/C will probably be removed and maybe the power steering too, will use a Miata alternator due to it not needing to run to the ECU, i'm still not a hundred percent sure if i wanna do 4 cylinders to 2 turbo's or 2 cyliders to 1 turbo split, still have to think that one thru, the motor will be forged, head will be ported polished and blue printed, new injectors and rail will be fitting but it runs rich as it is, standalone will be mandatory, i'm lookin at the Megasquirt, it's an excellent option, just waitng for our buddy to finish it up, my Apexi AVC-R has the boost by gear option and boost by RPM option, tranny and LSD comes with time, boost will be set appropriatly then work on the tranny wil start, either welded LSD or the Quief, tad expensive tho but it is sexy, replace the gears, flywheel, clutch.

Alot of work lies ahead, wish me luck, i WILL make this happen.

Thank you & Stay tuned

[MSP608]

oh oh idea. whynot just go with no intercooler that way the piping goes like 2 feet and its at the throttle body, then get meth injection to take care of cooling.

[S.A.MSP]

that can def be done, good idea but in the long run maybe not so good, even on race cars they would rather use an intercooler over meth injection

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Ok, let me get this off my chest, HOLY FUCKIN SHIT!!!!! I start the thread, go to dinner and i have 3 pages waiting for me, thanks for stickin up for me and thanks for the opinions, i am dead serious about making this work, and it will.

i feel better now, few, ok, gt28rs' are too big, been talking to some people and twin stockers will work without any doubt, the twin inlet IC is a great idea but not too much room for the tubing, if you guys saw in my sig i already have a CS front mount with custom tubing, i will need a bigger intercooler of course, all the tubing will be reused, the hot pipes from the turbos will go two into one like a smooth bending Y tube then into the existing tubing, custom mani will be made alot tighter than the stock one, meaning the turbo's will sit closer to the motor and it will have dual exhaust run under either the motor or tranny with highflow cats or catless and light weight mufflers then will end somewhat in the middle under the car, as for intake, the 626 will work but looking forward to the CS mani, filtering will be ran the same way on both turbo's, just like the Injen CAI but on both sides, i will replace the windshield sprayer tank with a smaller tank and mount it somewhere else, the A/C will probably be removed and maybe the power steering too, will use a Miata alternator due to it not needing to run to the ECU, i'm still not a hundred percent sure if i wanna do 4 cylinders to 2 turbo's or 2 cyliders to 1 turbo split, still have to think that one thru, the motor will be forged, head will be ported polished and blue printed, new injectors and rail will be fitting but it runs rich as it is, standalone will be mandatory, i'm lookin at the Megasquirt, it's an excellent option, just waitng for our buddy to finish it up, my Apexi AVC-R has the boost by gear option and boost by RPM option, tranny and LSD comes with time, boost will be set appropriatly then work on the tranny wil start, either welded LSD or the Quief, tad expensive tho but it is sexy, replace the gears, flywheel, clutch.

Alot of work lies ahead, wish me luck, i WILL make this happen.

Thank you & Stay tuned



You need to have a Bigger turbo as a brother.. they are good for low speeds , fast spooling.. but at high speed and RPM they just can handle it.. I had mine T25R Boosting 26 PSI spiking and holding 18. was insane at low speeds. but top end after 5k forget about it... T25 and GT2871R the best combo.. you should also set them up for Sequential. 1200 Rpm to 4500 fast ass spooling, abd 4600 to 8400 with the proper head job your 2871R. that shit will be a fucking rocket at all of the stages of the car.. low speed, fast spooling.. High Speed Full Boost Big Boy Power.. and try to make it AC and Power Steering Ready. that way you'll have all of the options available.. my vision about your project.. Don't fucking listen to people that says is not posible and is useless. you have a dream. accomplish it.. just like they were telling me.. Im going with a GT3571R turbo and big with eveything you can think of.. Useless ?.. don't care what people thinks i'll have a mosnter when it's done.. ALEJO_NIN knows what my shit is all about when done..


Here is my Car Domain Site check my mod list. you can start from there. just a little help and I still have to update for new parts im adding.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2315771/1

[blkspdfreak]

im curious to see how this turns out. all the best. "tt msp" (drinks)

[S.A.MSP]

You need to have a Bigger turbo as a brother.. they are good for low speeds , fast spooling.. but at high speed and RPM they just can handle it.. I had mine T25R Boosting 26 PSI spiking and holding 18. was insane at low speeds. but top end after 5k forget about it... T25 and GT2871R the best combo.. you should also set them up for Sequential. 1200 Rpm to 4500 fast ass spooling, abd 4600 to 8400 with the proper head job your 2871R. that shit will be a fucking rocket at all of the stages of the car.. low speed, fast spooling.. High Speed Full Boost Big Boy Power.. and try to make it AC and Power Steering Ready. that way you'll have all of the options available.. my vision about your project.. Don't fucking listen to people that says is not posible and is useless. you have a dream. accomplish it.. just like they were telling me.. Im going with a GT3571R turbo and big with eveything you can think of.. Useless ?.. don't care what people thinks i'll have a mosnter when it's done.. ALEJO_NIN knows what my shit is all about when done..

Definately a great setup to keep in mind, i have to go sit down with someone face to face and discuss my ideas, thank you for your support, we all have dreams, your car will be a total beast, build 'em right, run 'em hard :-)

[S.A.MSP]

im curious to see how this turns out. all the best. "tt msp" (drinks)


thanks alot, TT MSP here we come

[TheJohnny]

This looks just sick, I couldn't imagine how it would sound. Anyway, hope these help give you some ideas.

http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/SEMAproducts17c.jpg

http://www.thedieselpage.com/features/SEMAproducts17c.jpg
http://www.cumminsdatabase.com/images_articles/turbo_bd_super_b_twin.jpg
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/soarertt/images/supratt.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Twinturbo.JPG/250px-Twinturbo.JPG

[S.A.MSP]

excellent pics, turbo's are just a tad to big haha, great setups

[TheJohnny]

yeah, the last one was for just the O'Damn sakes.

I think the first two are a good idea, but it all depends on if your going to looks or for power I guess. The first two seem like they are very efficient with one working off another like that. Really neat to see it all tied in together.

[1moreMPH]

to save space, you can always just put a screen over the turbo inlets instead of having long piping and a fat filter. A lot of DSM & supra/rx7 guys do that, works fine.

No intercooler would work fine for a drag-only car, I saw a 9-second 'teg the other day like that. But for a daily driver as you said this would be, you gotta have an IC, and you'll need a BIG one. Will the IC piping need to be larger than the CS pipes i wonder?

a partial Meth/water-injection system might be a good idea too. It'll help cool the shit down and will add a lot of safe power. your cpu could maybe handle that as well?

I really wanna see this happen.

[yashart_mp3]

you guys are silly. Put one under the hood and one in the trunk. Duh

edit: see attached - or better yet, one in the passenger seat!

[diegosurfer5]

i dont know alot about turbos but what is that setup where they have the turbo on the exhaust. once again i dont know how that one works but maybe that would work. i have seen on mustng bullets they have there supercharger like they should then have turbos on the exhuast under the cars before the mufflers

[1moreMPH]

now there's an idea... Supercharge AND turbo that shit! That could be done right? Probably easier too...

[TheJohnny]

There is the subaru that did twin turbos and a supercharger. Check it out:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840806


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid185/pda1f2e26fef75540a4a25c02a64825cb/f2785c2a.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid185/p04afd45d049c358fc089e45818ce0cf5/f2785c31.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid185/pbc163c489ab78026d6721159fa9268ac/f2785c4d.jpg

[1moreMPH]

oh. my. god. holy. hell. that. is. sick.

he could probably run that shit without any combustible mixture at all. Just straight air! good GOD!

well if that has been done, i say your TT is for sure do-able. that engine bay is TIGHT.

[diegosurfer5]

WWWWOOOO!!!! now he just need to get clearence from the FAA when he starts the car so that when he starts flying he isnt gonna get shot down. HOLY SHNIKES!

[orng1]

Twin turbo? twin engine would be sick. You could mount the other in the trunk and make an AWD car that still gets decent fuel economy, just turn one off. What about how the muffler turbo's that the V8 guys are running. You could avoid the trouble of mounting it under the hood just routing piping would suck.

[Velocifero]

I see alot of my thoughts I told you from the beginning resurfacing from other people. Sequential turbos; small to large, added meth/ water injection, tranny bulid. Once my megasquirt is finished you won't have to worry about that alt. issue, you can stay with the stock. you should change over to a race cell battery and relocate it to the trunk. that will at least open up the bay a tad for you to do some of the relocating things like windshield resevior. and you could put your meth tank there or in the trunk, I have a lot of ideas about meth/ water so if you're interested in having that, let me know. Also with MS you can control the meth/ water and you'd have launch control, when you hit that it would sound so bad sitting at the line just banging away.

[fr0st]

now there's an idea... Supercharge AND turbo that shit! That could be done right? Probably easier too...

volks did a car for europe that had both.. it was on a 1.5 liter and gave out something like 250+ hp right out of the box

[S.A.MSP]

to save space, you can always just put a screen over the turbo inlets instead of having long piping and a fat filter. A lot of DSM & supra/rx7 guys do that, works fine.

No intercooler would work fine for a drag-only car, I saw a 9-second 'teg the other day like that. But for a daily driver as you said this would be, you gotta have an IC, and you'll need a BIG one. Will the IC piping need to be larger than the CS pipes i wonder?

a partial Meth/water-injection system might be a good idea too. It'll help cool the shit down and will add a lot of safe power. your cpu could maybe handle that as well?

I really wanna see this happen.

My IC tubing is custom 2.5 inch tubing, i think it sould be big enough, the screens might work but will then be sucking in hot air from the bay, well actually, that gives me reason to get a CF hood with vents close to the front, i'm also thinking of the IC nitrous sprayer kits, that will keep it nice and cool too

[S.A.MSP]

Twin turbo? twin engine would be sick. You could mount the other in the trunk and make an AWD car that still gets decent fuel economy, just turn one off. What about how the muffler turbo's that the V8 guys are running. You could avoid the trouble of mounting it under the hood just routing piping would suck.

that is called the STS turbo setup, doing the lines and tubing will suck, so would the rain, there isn't much room under car either, it pretty tight, and no i'm not mounting a motor in the trunk, it's a daily driver and i need my WOOFERS (alright)

[S.A.MSP]

I see alot of my thoughts I told you from the beginning resurfacing from other people. Sequential turbos; small to large, added meth/ water injection, tranny bulid. Once my megasquirt is finished you won't have to worry about that alt. issue, you can stay with the stock. you should change over to a race cell battery and relocate it to the trunk. that will at least open up the bay a tad for you to do some of the relocating things like windshield resevior. and you could put your meth tank there or in the trunk, I have a lot of ideas about meth/ water so if you're interested in having that, let me know. Also with MS you can control the meth/ water and you'd have launch control, when you hit that it would sound so bad sitting at the line just banging away.

as for the battary i have the Yellow top remember, i could probably fit two in the the trunk snuggly. And i know ur a mad scientist so i will def be seeking your oppinions on the build :-)

[S.A.MSP]

volks did a car for europe that had both.. it was on a 1.5 liter and gave out something like 250+ hp right out of the box

that's pretty Gnarly

[Velocifero]

as for the battary i have the Yellow top remember, i could probably fit two in the the trunk snuggly. And i know ur a mad scientist so i will def be seeking your oppinions on the build :-)

you don't want that weight. try this on for size http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=812,587_3833&action=product

[S.A.MSP]

you don't want that weight. try this on for size http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=812,587_3833&action=product

very nice, and it's cheaper than optima

[1moreMPH]

15-inch wide tires.
mount the turbos down low up front, one on either side to take advantage of the air ducts (custom pathway) and don't drive in the rain. Then could you possibly just put the IC between them... That would mean you have a total of like 3 inches of piping! lol. Also, i remember Supman made a very creative air duct that was just a hole through the turn signal of the front headlight assembly. He just carved out that entire light/bulb and everything there so it lead straight into the engine for his SRI. Good extra cooling there or direct airflow there too...

[S.A.MSP]

15-inch wide tires.
mount the turbos down low up front, one on either side to take advantage of the air ducts (custom pathway) and don't drive in the rain. Then could you possibly just put the IC between them... That would mean you have a total of like 3 inches of piping! lol. Also, i remember Supman made a very creative air duct that was just a hole through the turn signal of the front headlight assembly. He just carved out that entire light/bulb and everything there so it lead straight into the engine for his SRI. Good extra cooling there or direct airflow there too...

it's still gonna be my daily my good man, excellent ideas but i have to think for everyday kinda weather, 15 inch tires will be cool tho

[neox.286]

subbin

I once mentioned this idea on here and got mega flamed for it lol

glad to see someone actually doing it...and youll be the first MSP with twin turbos lol, NICE

as for your piping running like the Injen CAI on both sides, thats the way I have my setup and it works great...you dont have to remove power steering, but be careful the piping doesnt push up against the belts there or else you wont have that power steering line anymore lol (worked on it hellof late and didnt realize that one until it was too late...damnit lol)....what I eventually did was put a new, longer line on it and ran it a little further to the side and then U-d it around the pipe...fits great

http://a991.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/94/l_5d5890dbbfbe669d9ea9e822c749a956.jpg
kinda hard to see what I mean here...

power steering is kinda valuable in my honest opinion...parking is an absolute bitch without it lol

good luck to ya man!

(Please ignore the massive amount of couplers on the intake pipe....thats a long story (yes it has a story lol))

[S.A.MSP]

thanks for the support man, all the piping will be completely custom fabricated to fit like and extremely small tight glove lol, but all bends will be well thought out, might not even need to extend the power steering line, for a daily i think the injen idea is the better option

[neox.286]

no problem man

thats just an issue I came up with when I installed that double-injen setup (haha)...its kinda hard to avoid it cause if you try to have the piping higher to clear it, then the hood pushes it down anyways...but you could put a small bend in there to kinda route it away from it (like a 10 degree bend or something, just to kinda V it away a bit)

youll have to move the washer tank (like you said), but a suggestion...how much do you need the washer fluid? what I would do (that Im actually going to be doing soon) is to utilize the pumps on the tank to use as a squirter for your intercooler...theres a DIY howto on this forum somewhere

just a thought (thumb)

[Velocifero]

no problem man

thats just an issue I came up with when I installed that double-injen setup (haha)...its kinda hard to avoid it cause if you try to have the piping higher to clear it, then the hood pushes it down anyways...but you could put a small bend in there to kinda route it away from it (like a 10 degree bend or something, just to kinda V it away a bit)

youll have to move the washer tank (like you said), but a suggestion...how much do you need the washer fluid? what I would do (that Im actually going to be doing soon) is to utilize the pumps on the tank to use as a squirter for your intercooler...theres a DIY howto on this forum somewhere

just a thought (thumb)

seen the sprayer and actually created one for myself, seperate of the washer resevior, it has it's own pump and resevior, but I haven't wired it into the car yet. I have had it ready for almost two years. lol

[fr0st]

volks turbo and super charged


heres what im talking about.. although i the HP is alot less coming from a alot less dispalcement.. 1.4 L 170 hp.. not bad , imagine the potential.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/08/23/vws-supercharged-turbo-engine/

[Velocifero]

volks turbo and super charged


heres what im talking about.. although i the HP is alot less coming from a alot less dispalcement.. 1.4 L 170 hp.. not bad for a diesel.. imagine the potential.

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/08/23/vws-supercharged-turbo-engine/

at the autox this weekend was a VW Corrado that was twin charged (super/ turbo) sounded amazing


see the fun you miss running off to carolina every weekend Jacques

[505zoom]

I made a little drawing way back, of a sequential setup that I have never seen done before. It's floating around one of these threads somewhere.

Basically, you run a large turbo in the msp's stock location, and a smaller turbo where the stock airbox sits. Exhaust manifold feeds the large turbo just like a normal single turbo setup. Connect the turbine outlet on the large turbo to the turbine inlet on the small, with a pressure actuated exhaust cutout in between them.

Compressor outlet on the large turbo goes to a FMIC and then up toward the TB. Compressor outlet on the small turbo runs straight up towards the TB and is Y-piped with the larger. A pressure actuated solenoid flapper valve will open and close the smaller turbo's side of the Y-pipe.

Downpipe from the small turbo is tied into the exhaust system. Intake for both depends on where you want your MAF.

Fairly easy setup, the hard part is timing everything right. If you get your exhaust cutout in between the turbos and the flapper valve in the Y-pipe timed right, you have a perfect sequential setup. Small turbo spools and goes right into the motor, indirectly spooling the larger turbo. Once your large turbo is spooling, the Y-pipe closes, cutting off the feed from the small turbo (and preventing any backwards pressure from going down the small turbo's compressor outlet pipe). At the same time, the exhaust cutout opens, letting the large turbo breathe freely with no restriction.

The only variable that I can't figure out without actually testing it, is whether or not the large turbo will create too much parasitic drag being in-line first. The smaller turbo might not spool quickly if the large turbine is slowing down the flow too much.

However you do it, have fun and post lots of pics!

[fr0st]

at the autox this weekend was a VW Corrado that was twin charged (super/ turbo) sounded amazing


see the fun you miss running off to carolina every weekend Jacques

myust be the easiest twin setup possible..

the SC comes from the corrado and bolts on the head, and the turbo setup from a 1.8T which is basically the same motor and the manifold prolly bolts on as well..

must be a special thing to drive :)

[1moreMPH]

I made a little drawing way back, of a sequential setup that I have never seen done before. It's floating around one of these threads somewhere.

Basically, you run a large turbo in the msp's stock location, and a smaller turbo where the stock airbox sits. Exhaust manifold feeds the large turbo just like a normal single turbo setup. Connect the turbine outlet on the large turbo to the turbine inlet on the small, with a pressure actuated exhaust cutout in between them.

Compressor outlet on the large turbo goes to a FMIC and then up toward the TB. Compressor outlet on the small turbo runs straight up towards the TB and is Y-piped with the larger. A pressure actuated solenoid flapper valve will open and close the smaller turbo's side of the Y-pipe.

Downpipe from the small turbo is tied into the exhaust system. Intake for both depends on where you want your MAF.

Fairly easy setup, the hard part is timing everything right. If you get your exhaust cutout in between the turbos and the flapper valve in the Y-pipe timed right, you have a perfect sequential setup. Small turbo spools and goes right into the motor, indirectly spooling the larger turbo. Once your large turbo is spooling, the Y-pipe closes, cutting off the feed from the small turbo (and preventing any backwards pressure from going down the small turbo's compressor outlet pipe). At the same time, the exhaust cutout opens, letting the large turbo breathe freely with no restriction.

The only variable that I can't figure out without actually testing it, is whether or not the large turbo will create too much parasitic drag being in-line first. The smaller turbo might not spool quickly if the large turbine is slowing down the flow too much.

However you do it, have fun and post lots of pics!

That's exactly what i was imagining up in my dome.

--I too was thinking about an intercooler-sprayer made from the washer fluid tank & pump. Great minds think alike i guess...

[S.A.MSP]

look at this

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k179/hot_stufdude56/twinturbo.jpg

[1moreMPH]

wow thank you for that, good find. That's the way to do it, exaclty.

[crashkelly]

werd the little turbo+bigger turbo = awesome power across your power band.

[S.A.MSP]

i'm glad i found that, i think that is my choice

[melicha8]

What abouts a twin turbo from an Rx7

[fr0st]

dont forget , a big turbo and a small turbo might be problematic as well..

the small turbo will spool up ok IF the gases are not diverted 50/50 to the big one.. if not.. it will take about half more time..

then if you ever spool up ok and hit high revs and the bigger turbo IF/CAN spool up as well.. as if you put a large turbo and you divert to a smaller one half or even 35% of the flow to the smaller one, you lose 35% to the big ones flow.. so it spools up slowly and COULD not reach peak performance.

this is all a theory but still possible to achieve..

the other cars you see that are twin turbo have alot more displacement than 2 liters.. and dispalcement is directly proportionnal to what you can push out and the stock cars equiped so are usually use same sized turbo
if not, you'd see pontiac fireflys 3 cylinder turbo with a garret T04 strapped in.

if a 1JZGTE/2JZGTE uses 2 very small turbos to push out 300 hp, what makes you say that a 2 liter 4 cylinder can put on a small and a big one?

dont forget, too much is like not enough.. theres a diffrence between a small-ER turbo and a bigg-ER turbo..

sure with flaps to control the flow it might be ok.. but it's hell ofalot easier to put equal sized, small turbos.. you get the big turbo CFM flow and the small turbo no lag-ness

[1moreMPH]

how does that work with 2 small turbos? I know many cars utilize that, but i would think that the low-end one would be fine, but the high-end turbo would just be spinning so damned fast it would be out of its efficiency range. Perhaps im looking at this the wrong way. Explanation?

[S.A.MSP]

you mean the explination for the two same sized turbo's put in a sequential setup? i wanna know too, just seems like that one is a tad pointless, two small ones in line is a go and a small one feeding a big one is a go, like the Cummins twin turbo setup

[kudakev615]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/JDriver18t/DSC00873.jpg

[S.A.MSP]

that was previously posted, but still a good pic, i like how theres a radio in there

[S.A.MSP]

it's pretty much a setup similar to the Squiers Turbo Systems but...in the passenger seat

[neox.286]

lol...I wonder what it sounds like inside? haha

[S.A.MSP]

lol...I wonder what it sounds like inside? haha

you can't hear it, the radio is always turned up all the way LOL

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

i bet its 1200+ degrees in there

[Velocifero]

yea, i know, don't remind me, i'll have to stick around more often

there is an awsome event this Saturday night!

I made a little drawing way back, of a sequential setup that I have never seen done before. It's floating around one of these threads somewhere.

Basically, you run a large turbo in the msp's stock location, and a smaller turbo where the stock airbox sits. Exhaust manifold feeds the large turbo just like a normal single turbo setup. Connect the turbine outlet on the large turbo to the turbine inlet on the small, with a pressure actuated exhaust cutout in between them.

Compressor outlet on the large turbo goes to a FMIC and then up toward the TB. Compressor outlet on the small turbo runs straight up towards the TB and is Y-piped with the larger. A pressure actuated solenoid flapper valve will open and close the smaller turbo's side of the Y-pipe.

Downpipe from the small turbo is tied into the exhaust system. Intake for both depends on where you want your MAF.
Fairly easy setup, the hard part is timing everything right. If you get your exhaust cutout in between the turbos and the flapper valve in the Y-pipe timed right, you have a perfect sequential setup. Small turbo spools and goes right into the motor, indirectly spooling the larger turbo. Once your large turbo is spooling, the Y-pipe closes, cutting off the feed from the small turbo (and preventing any backwards pressure from going down the small turbo's compressor outlet pipe). At the same time, the exhaust cutout opens, letting the large turbo breathe freely with no restriction.

The only variable that I can't figure out without actually testing it, is whether or not the large turbo will create too much parasitic drag being in-line first. The smaller turbo might not spool quickly if the large turbine is slowing down the flow too much.

However you do it, have fun and post lots of pics!

With a full standalone EMS he can throw the MAF in the garage, it isn't needed

[lil_red_wagon]

i would back mount a small turbo just behind the tranny and exhaust mount one in the stock location. that way, you could have the sequential off-set of two spools with little or no lag and high end power where the small turbo runs out of steam. i would check into trying to up-fit a FMIC from another application. you may have to just have the two outlets from a twin merge into one and run some kind of diaphragm that will keep them from blowing down each other.

i have to be honest, this idea has crossed my mind a few times. my main concerns were the drive-train itself. i know that this will tear up a tranny and maybe even break an axle. all of the other concerns are easily remedied. good luck

[tracknfield423]

has anyone considered a rear mounted turbo at all? i don't know much about them or TT setups but if hes doing a dual exhaust can he rear mount both. . . or maybe rear mount one and mount the other in the engine bay?

[lil_red_wagon]

that is basically what i suggested. one back-mounted after the downpipe, one in the bay.

[Alejo_NIN]

he's refferring to mounting the turbo right before the muffler...
which i'm against completly, coz seeing how low our cars are, going thru rain will definately crack a blazing hot turbo

[S.A.MSP]

exactly, i have to stick to the engine bay options, my car is lowered too, a while ago i wanted to do a side exit exhaust but the car is low for that too much less fitting a turbo under there, if i do the sequential setup i won't have dual exhaust since the exhaust gas from the smaller turbo will feed the other turbo

[Alejo_NIN]

sequencial, IMO, is much better.

2 cyl ain't gonna cut it

[S.A.MSP]

sequencial, IMO, is much better.

2 cyl ain't gonna cut it

Word, i just have to find my existing turbo i big brother

[Velocifero]

Word, i just have to find my existing turbo i big brother

you and I know somebody that has one off a bluebird, he is local and it would be very affordable, ATP sells the flanges for it too.

And as far as your side exahust and the car being too low, your car isn't nearly as low as Korey's on Ksports and 15s and he has side exit. Also you could consider my route and do a e-cutout so you can have it loud or quiet.

[S.A.MSP]

you and I know somebody that has one off a bluebird, he is local and it would be very affordable, ATP sells the flanges for it too.

And as far as your side exahust and the car being too low, your car isn't nearly as low as Korey's on Ksports and 15s and he has side exit. Also you could consider my route and do a e-cutout so you can have it loud or quiet.

well i wanted to do side exit right behind the front wheel, what kinda turbo is that wich came off the bluebird, i might just do a permanent cutout, have the exhaust stop after a light weight race muffler midway under the car

[jeffmsp]

the smart way to do this would be to remove the ac compressor, run a large centrifugal sc in its place and have the stock T25R turbo intake piping blow into the sc and make 30+ psi on the stock turbo. it is called compound charging, you are compressing precompressed air. not to mention once the turbo spools, it also spools the sc so the blower is no longer causing the motor to work harder.

but if you are set on using 2 smalls turbos (even though one is more then efficient anyways) why not sell the T25R and buy 2 IHI vj-11s from the old probes/mx6.they are cheap, will spool quick off 2 cylinders, And if you actually got to the point where it would max them out (very doubtful) you can cheaply source the vj-17 hotside and have 2 hybrids. Thats the cheapest way to do it and that way you can keep it all mazda hardware minus the piping/exhaust.

[S.A.MSP]

the smart way to do this would be to remove the ac compressor, run a large centrifugal sc in its place and have the stock T25R turbo intake piping blow into the sc and make 30+ psi on the stock turbo. it is called compound charging, you are compressing precompressed air. not to mention once the turbo spools, it also spools the sc so the blower is no longer causing the motor to work harder.

but if you are set on using 2 smalls turbos (even though one is more then efficient anyways) why not sell the T25R and buy 2 IHI vj-11s from the old probes/mx6.they are cheap, will spool quick off 2 cylinders, And if you actually got to the point where it would max them out (very doubtful) you can cheaply source the vj-17 hotside and have 2 hybrids. Thats the cheapest way to do it and that way you can keep it all mazda hardware minus the piping/exhaust.


What does everyone else think of these ideas?

[1moreMPH]

well that sc/turbo idea sounds great. Im not 100% up on how it works but it sounds good in theory.

2 small turbos is good though, i feel like that's what most people have been saying.

[neox.286]

I like that idea, but I think the one small one feeding the larger one sequentially would be the best way to go...

and I hope your going forged with this, cause if your doing this and only going to be boosting under 10psi its kinda pointless lol

I would highly not reccomend going over 10 psi on stock internals...heh, when these things blow they have been known to throw pistons through the side of the block...then your out even more money lol

[jeffmsp]

btw a m90 blower can flow more cfm then you would need. They are cheap, have self contained oiling and canbe found on ebay. Have the T25R flow 6-8psi straight into the m90, then use the appropriet sized pulley to get your desired max boost. The T25R will spool very quick will no IC in its way and give you a strong low and midrange, then the blower backs up the top end. Ive seen a lexus v6 in an mr2 using this kind of system pushing 600+whp with power everywhere designed to set landspeed records in an mr2 at the salt flats. (though they used a roots blower, same idea, m90 will be more efficient since you can intercool the boost)

so you have $10,000+ lying around for a custom made transmission? Cause your stock box aint gonna survive even a single large turbo lol your propsed drivetrain alone will cost twice what your car is worth if you actually go through with this..

[jeffmsp]

attached is a very poor picture I made to help visualize what you would do:

in the pic below you can see a makeshift SC setup on a 1.9 sohc escort motor (feoa.net for more info, guys name is skuce)

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/884/dsc021143oq.jpg

see where he has the air intake, instead of that you have the piping from your T25r feeding the blower and keep the intake on your turbocharger.

This pic is a M60, I would suggest M90 if you can get it to fit. Since the T25R is well in efficiency range at 6psi it will not have to be intercooled before it goes to the blower. (on the stock mazdaspeed 6psi at the manifold is actually 10psi preintercooler thanks to the terrible stock IC design, thats why the stock turbo blows hot at 6psi at the manifold cause the turbo is actually pumping 10psi)

With the M90 and T25R you could run anywhere fro 20psi to blowup. If you want your built block to last I suggest also getting an individual port alcohol injection system or always have race gas in the tank. at 30+psi there is no room for error.

not to mention you need, clutch, trans,axles, slicks, some slick ex manifold able to deal with 600+HP worth of exhaust backpressure getting through the internally WG T25R etc. just to make it down the 4020 and live to tell about it (first) lol



A nice single turbo sounds about right now doesnt it ;)

[S.A.MSP]

once again, not building a drag car, thank you for your ideas but it's not what i'm looking for

[neox.286]

so you have $10,000+ lying around for a custom made transmission? Cause your stock box aint gonna survive even a single large turbo lol your propsed drivetrain alone will cost twice what your car is worth if you actually go through with this..

I agree, but its not necessarily that bad...theres a guy in so cal here with a T4 turbo, stock internals, stock tranny, front mount IC...running about 10 psi of boost but flowing a lot of air...think his last dyno was 250 WHp...but anyways, he hasnt had any tranny problems

like I said, it would be good to upgrade the tranny, but not necessary...I personally wouldnt upgrade the tranny unless I am forced to cause it has an issue

[crashkelly]

I agree, but its not necessarily that bad...theres a guy in so cal here with a T4 turbo, stock internals, stock tranny, front mount IC...running about 10 psi of boost but flowing a lot of air...think his last dyno was 250 WHp...but anyways, he hasnt had any tranny problems

like I said, it would be good to upgrade the tranny, but not necessary...I personally wouldnt upgrade the tranny unless I am forced to cause it has an issue

yeah but if he has twin turbos on his car its going to be exceeding 250whp...probably by a lot...

[crashkelly]

it might not cost him 10000 for a better drivetrain though...if he really knows what he is doing. You could always mate another cars tranny to the engine. It would require a lot of custom work....but it can be done relatively cheaply if you can do all the work yourself.

[neox.286]

If hes running a EMS system...otherwise he might not see as good of results as he would like on the stock tune

granted, he will be pushing more than 250 when hes done, but I still would wait to see if hes going to have an issue first

UNLESS he could find a buyer for his stock tranny and put that money towards a quaife...that would be a smart move

[S.A.MSP]

i had 260whp before my motor blew so about 300 was going thru the tranny and i didn't have any issues, all i had was what's in my sig, i am upgrading axles, gears, clutch, flywheel and def the LSD, but all in good time, first all the turbo work, with low boost i can start the work on the tranny

[neox.286]

yea, if you have your LSD welded then you shouldnt have any problems (thumb)

[haze20]

what exactly are you thinking for your setup?

my opinion: only way you might be able to pull it off with two gt28rs's would be to get a awr half sized race radiator and fit one of the turbos where the stocker sits, then another off to about where brian mp5t has his turbo mounted. piping running down and over to the passenger side and meeting before the intercooler. then from the intercooler route it like the MAM intercooler is done through that hole on the driver side to the throttle body.

thats the only way i think it could work. you'd probably half to cut out some of your frame in the engine bay for the manifold/downpipes.

pointless project but power to ya if you pull it off.

He could try to run it like AMS with the EVO or how All Aspects has there WRX. That would take a massive custom manifold and two IC's.

[jeffmsp]

if you only want 300WHP why are you bothering with any of this? Send you turbo to MPI Nick and have him rework it for the power you are looking for, then you dont have to waste time money etc. just to say you have 2 turbos lol

/UNSUBSCRIBED..

[neox.286]

he never said he wanted just 300...he said that 300 HP was running through his tranny on his old setup before his engine blew and still ran fine

hes probably going for closer to 400+

[1moreMPH]

If hes running a EMS system...otherwise he might not see as good of results as he would like on the stock tune

granted, he will be pushing more than 250 when hes done, but I still would wait to see if hes going to have an issue first

UNLESS he could find a buyer for his stock tranny and put that money towards a quaife...that would be a smart move

Um...he's getting a fully built block. That basically requires a full standalone EMS system. And with this setup, OF COURSE he'll need EMS to even run... and he'll be dominating 250hp, considering he was more than that on the stock turbo at 14psi. But you are right with one thing, quaife's are hawt. (eyeballs)

[orng1]

Quaife is expensive, if there were at least some competition other than stock maybe it'd be a little cheaper. I think that's about the most expensive part currently on the car, no wait it's the turbo.

[neox.286]

lol, 1moreMPH...your right haha
I was kinda half asleep when I wrote that...(smash)

but yes, the quaife would be nice

[1moreMPH]

Quaife is expensive, if there were at least some competition other than stock maybe it'd be a little cheaper. I think that's about the most expensive part currently on the car, no wait it's the turbo.

+1 for some competition... although the mazdaspeed lsd when welded is fair game, only $100 to get welded. thrash that shit.

[S.A.MSP]

i can get my stock LSD welded for free, the Q is way too expensive, will def be running full EMS, as soon as we get the Megasquirt figured out

[orng1]

Definately get it done if you can get it for free. Do all of it together if you have the option, forged motor, welded LSD, clutch and lighter flywheel. It will save a lot on cost for labor and time. Even if you do it yourself it will save a lot of down time on the ca and frustration of havint to do things twice.

[jeffmsp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq464GQ-brc

here are the vids I was talking about: 10.03QM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NVmw60mhtU

10.32

Good to know you want more then 300whp. Like I was saying before the ihi-vj11s can be found for $100-$150 in GREAT condition. If you sold your T25R for ~$500 you could get both of them and then have some money left over for manifolds. Helps keep the expense down. I know a guy putting down 272WTRQ with one vj-11/vj-17 hybrid on a "respatory challenged" 1.9l sohc cvh motor. With 2 hybrids I am sure you could put down 400+whp and have great power everywhere for the cheap. I would start with just the vj-11 though and then see if you even need the hybrid. Lots of probe/mx6 guys are running 13s with just one keep in mind.

[Kooldino]

Mazdaspeed2oo35 (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/member.php?u=27227) - Not sure how well you know these cars or not, but if you expect to make 500whp reliable and streetable in a protege, I think you're in for a rude awakening.

Even if you made that power level (very unlikely) the sacrifices you'd need to make to do so will make it drive poorly on the street.

Ask anyone who's been in my 19psi mp3. It's borderline retarded. If you truly want 500whp (or at least as close to that as you can get), start building it as a drag car, unless you want to fix it on a daily basis and have a car that's crummy to drive around town in.

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

Mazdaspeed2oo35 (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/member.php?u=27227) - Not sure how well you know these cars or not, but if you expect to make 500whp reliable and streetable in a protege, I think you're in for a rude awakening.

Even if you made that power level (very unlikely) the sacrifices you'd need to make to do so will make it drive poorly on the street.

Ask anyone who's been in my 19psi mp3. It's borderline retarded. If you truly want 500whp (or at least as close to that as you can get), start building it as a drag car, unless you want to fix it on a daily basis and have a car that's crummy to drive around town in.


Well Like I said Before.. 500whp at full boost.. i'll have around 390-400 daily driven. depending of what TBK Desires whats best for daily driving. I can Choose with the boost controler low boost and hi boost, obviously im not going to run everyday 500 to the wheels but at full boost that's what im going to have available when i want or need them...

[neox.286]

I know a guy with a PDA setup in his car to switch between ECU tuning charts on the fly for daily driving and for racing

mostly cause he drives a massive truck (it still hauls ass) and he needs to save gas...but you get the idea...street is possible, but you cant run full race tune on the street

[MakeMeGoFast]

Well. As far as the tranny goes. There is alway the option of other transmission. Have an adapter plate made and bingo. Obviously there is more to it than that but you get the idea.

There will alway the neh sayers. but a small niche community/market like ares needs people who will push past the limits of what people think is the limit. Its the only way we can advance our cars. Especially since they arent being made anymore. Good luck with this and stay the course. Something I havent been able to do with my project. the last year suck for me as far as money goes. People want to see this happen, so ignore the people who say you cant.

[gone_fishin]

Mazdaspeed2oo35 (http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/member.php?u=27227) - Not sure how well you know these cars or not, but if you expect to make 500whp reliable and streetable in a protege, I think you're in for a rude awakening.

Even if you made that power level (very unlikely) the sacrifices you'd need to make to do so will make it drive poorly on the street.

If you truly want 500whp (or at least as close to that as you can get), start building it as a drag car, unless you want to fix it on a daily basis and have a car that's crummy to drive around town in.

Quoted For Truth

[jeffmsp]

one way you can deal with the traction issue would be to install a new diff that would give you longer gearing. That would be a major benefit if you got the quiffe, you could get the diff the size you want. Also GTX/R gears are a cheap upgrade especially if you already had the trans apart from doing the diff. Your welded diff could be sold to recoupe some of the quife cost. I put an old 626 diff in a Escort GT years ago, really helped with traction. 2nd gear went to ~125KMPH, 4th to ~200KM. Never got to the end of 5th, speedo started turning around though. 1st was great for launches even with no LSD, though we sure werent trying to launch 400WHP..

[orng1]

one way you can deal with the traction issue would be to install a new diff that would give you longer gearing. That would be a major benefit if you got the quiffe, you could get the diff the size you want.
It's not the diff that decides the gearing it's the ring gear or the ring and pinion or the gears themselves.

[starscream2k1]

I am not sure if i am right, but just a few thoughts bouncing in my head for Traction for that much HP...

Someone else here said the DIFF and Gears and all that. i would totally do that (maybe Cryo treat them too), i also know that having them straight cut vs the regular like angle cut (on the gears themselves) can also increase strength but also create a whine too.

Also maybe for a ECU (something like a haltech, where if you get the haltech boost controller for example) you can control boost BY GEAR so maybe limit 1st gear to like 8psi to help with launching, the only problem i see here thats not solved is when you get up to speed and you reef the pedal then you get spinning wheels, BUT i am thinking to combat that since (not sure how many of you took physics or anything) but when you gun it like that the weight distributes unevenly (basically you stomp on the gas and the weight gets pushed to the rear of the car, hence why RWD cars have better traction theres an inherent increase in downforce for them on the rear power tires). So maybe have some sorta REAL stiff springs/shocks/coilovers so the back end of the car wont 'squat' as much (should keep some of the force in the front) also add a engine brace, stiffer/solid engine mounts.

Also if you have cash and the time/patience/etc etc see a way to modify the stock front hubs/axels/drive axels so you can fit larger width tires in the front. increase the footprint (amount of rubber on the floor) and hence you automatically increase the amount of traction you have.

i dunno these are just some idea's i have... maybe right maybe wrong.. maybe it will help

[jeffmsp]

It's not the diff that decides the gearing it's the ring gear or the ring and pinion or the gears themselves

I gave him a broken EGT box and a old carbed motor 626 box. He said he took the diff from the 626 and the gears from the egt. guess he swapped the ring gear or ring and pinion. I know the gears are from the EGT box.

have you see the video of the 300 and something WHP escort on youtube ? shit.. look for it you'll love how that shit launches and grip and kick everyones ass around....

the green EGT smoking the newer supra on youtube is tarmactr from feoa.net He really knows his stuff.

[gone_fishin]

To everyone that's arguing:

It ends here, or else this thread will be locked and dumpstered immediately. Keep conversation on topic. Keep debates civil.

[S.A.MSP]

GOSH, thank you fisherman :-) really honestly thank you, i don't know what happened here, if you guys could please just go back and delete all the fight comments i will really appreciate that, thank you

OK, traction, i HAVE the Apexi AVC-R, it has boost by gear and boost by RPM, i will use it, i have my traction right there, done, i've already mentioned that the EMS i'm getting has a launch funcion if i do wanna do some races, traction there too, i'm thinking this build thru ok, FOR ME IT"S NOT A WASTE OF ANYTHING, so please please just let me have my time, i'm doing the sequential setup and i'm probably gonna use my stock turbo and get a bigger brother for it, that way i don't need any custom manifold, but i do have a guy that can build me one if i needed it, he will also build me all the tubing i will need to join the two turbo's, he builds TT setups for Vipers so he knows what he's doing, he's a grumpy old man but there is no one else i'd rather have building these parts for me, this build is gonna take alot of patiants and time and MONEY but i won't be out of a car, i do get free rentals from work so having the car down won't be a total loss, thanks to every one who's sticking up for me, i really appretiate it

[orng1]

I'm glad your thinking it through and ahead into the future. I hear you on trying to use the stock turbo as the primary but it may be a restriction at higher hp levels and also I doubt that the tubo manifold will be able to flow what you'll need for your goal. Just a thought, only time will tell what you finally decide and how it goes.

[S.A.MSP]

well i have the Thunder replacement mani too wich shouldn't be as restrictive

[Arok22]

Twin Turbo. that sounds awesome. Post up pics along the way and let us know how it goes. Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. Obviously it sounds like you are willing to drop the cash and have arrangements made. The only reason you are getting crap for it is because it has never been done (as far as I'm aware of) so of course people will knock it. I'm interested to see how it turns out.(mj)

[S.A.MSP]

Twin Turbo. that sounds awesome. Post up pics along the way and let us know how it goes. Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. Obviously it sounds like you are willing to drop the cash and have arrangements made. The only reason you are getting crap for it is because it has never been done (as far as I'm aware of) so of course people will knock it. I'm interested to see how it turns out.(mj)


Thank you man, it's good to have some support

[nvmsp]

so when is this supposed to be done?

[Shadow102]

LOL i am subscribing to this....scott told me about it a few days ago and seems ammusing. I guess i can lend whatever knowledge i have to help out...if i get bored i may go read back thru and try to answer some of the questions i already have for you

[S.A.MSP]

so when is this supposed to be done?

the car goes to the shop end of next month, motor will take a month to get it from protege garage, as soon as she's up and running i can start on it


Shadow, i know you have some good seggestions and idea's for me so please feel free

[Shadow102]

the car goes to the shop end of next month, motor will take a month to get it from protege garage, as soon as she's up and running i can start on it


Shadow, i know you have some good seggestions and idea's for me so please feel free

yeah if you are going to be out on thursday night at bowling i will talk to you about it....my main concern at this point is space

[S.A.MSP]

yeah if you are going to be out on thursday night at bowling i will talk to you about it....my main concern at this point is space

i'm with you on that, have to see what i can get rid of/cut out/move/replace with smaller options, i'll probably be out on thursday too, i would like to see the bluebird turbo too if you don't mind bringing it with

[Shadow102]

i'm with you on that, have to see what i can get rid of/cut out/move/replace with smaller options, i'll probably be out on thursday too, i would like to see the bluebird turbo too if you don't mind bringing it with

no problem it looks exactly the same as what we have in the car now just internals are different

[S.A.MSP]

no problem it looks exactly the same as what we have in the car now just internals are different

nice, that's a great advantage considering the space issue

[Alejo_NIN]

you know we got your back...

so, what has the people from africa said about all this?

[S.A.MSP]

you know we got your back...

so, what has the people from africa said about all this?

i haven't gotton in touch with him yet, he's a bussy man, he actually builds intercoolers for a living and does all other aluminium welding(it's not a spelling error, it's how we say it and spell it :-) )

[DeadGeneration]

subscribed for massive down time

[Rush]

To everyone that's arguing:

It ends here, or else this thread will be locked and dumpstered immediately. Keep conversation on topic. Keep debates civil.
I just went through this thread and deleted FIVE PAGES of bickering.

What's really a shame is that S.A. didn't start any of the nonsense -- therefore, this thread isn't being locked or deleted. It's not his fault that some of you can't keep show some respect to each other, keep ahold of your tempers and watch your mouths.

If ANY of that crap starts again, the posts of the participants won't just be deleted -- you'll receive some infractions that'll likely get you banned for a few days, if not longer. Like I've said a bazillion times before, I won't tolerate this kind of immature waste-of-space in the MSP section.

My patience is now gone. No more simple warnings from me for stuff like this. Infractions will be received for childish, inappropriate behavior -- then the rest of the forum that's trying to help and offer ideas can actually be HEARD.

S.A. -- I'm sorry I cluttered up your thread with this post, but seeing as it's the most recent example, I thought it'd be the best place to put this. I wish you the best of luck with your build. :)

[RXMmazdaspeed]

Twin Turbo. that sounds awesome. Post up pics along the way and let us know how it goes. Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done. Obviously it sounds like you are willing to drop the cash and have arrangements made. The only reason you are getting crap for it is because it has never been done (as far as I'm aware of) so of course people will knock it. I'm interested to see how it turns out.(mj)

+1, good luck man i hope everything turns out well.

[S.A.MSP]

Thanks AROK, thanks RXM and thanks to Rush

Rush, i have no idea how i kept my cool through all this, i just really didn't want this thread locked or deleted, thanks again for keeping an eye on the thread

I have no new news on the build but i will keep everyone posted i promise

[crashkelly]

wow i missed a lot of drama it seems...any updates guy?

[ksrogue]

I missed all of the drama. I'm sure someone would flame you for wanting to do it. To each their own. From the sound of things, two small turbos would probably work the best, and since you want a daily driver, the EMS that you are getting probably has some settings you can use for the strip and the street. Keep us updated, and post pics as you can. I'm definitely interested in seeing your setup. Good Luck!

[S.A.MSP]

i believe the ems does have street and strip options, i'm sad to say that i do not have any updates, end of this month the car goes in to the shop to get the forged motor put in, i've slowly been buying parts that i'm gonna need to do this but theres nothing i can do right now seeing how this is gonna be totally custom, thanks to everyone who is supperting me, this is still going to happen, i give you my word, it's gonna take a while tho but i will def. keep everyone up to date :)

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

i believe the ems does have street and strip options, i'm sad to say that i do not have any updates, end of this month the car goes in to the shop to get the forged motor put in, i've slowly been buying parts that i'm gonna need to do this but theres nothing i can do right now seeing how this is gonna be totally custom, thanks to everyone who is supperting me, this is still going to happen, i give you my word, it's gonna take a while tho but i will def. keep everyone up to date :)

hey buddie.. a little list you might want to get into consideration to start making your frankestein alive

1. Aries Pistons 8.5: 1 Compression Ratio
2. Pauter Rods
3. Cometic Thick Head Gasket I believe it's the 90mm
4. ARP head Studs
5. Clevite 777 Bearing Kit.
6. Perrin Fuel Rail
7. Bosch 440cc Injectors. My Ex's ones. lol
8. Walbo Intank 255 fuel Pump
9. Port and Polish Head with 5 Angle Valve Job, Double Valve Springs to redline that shit Until 8,400 Rpms
10. Custom Overhead Cams anything above 241 lift
11. Ajustable Cam Gears
12. Mazda 626 manifiold Full Port and Polish
13. Twin Garrett T25R turbos, one of them with the NICK's Internals Upgrade for top end power
14.Custom Mani With Independant Tial 38mm Waste gates, or keep the turbos internal Wasgated.
15. Custom Downpipes with Independant Full 3" Exhaust Systems with HKS's Hi Power Mufflers Catless.
16. Haltech E6X, Haltech Coil Packs, and Haltech Boost Controller,and Haltech Shift Light if desire.
17. ACT Xtreme Clutch with Street Preassure Plate
18. Custom Helical Cut 3rd, 4th, 5th Gears
19. MSP Welded LSD both Sides
20. Cryo Treatment Complete Transmission Internals including Helical Cut Gears and LSD
21. Redline Shockproof Syncromesh HEAVY HUDY tranny oil
22. Custom Dual Core Front Mount Intercooler with 2.5 Piping and Twin HKS SSQV


I'll add more shit when i have more time that shit just came out of my head, considering im running parts in these list..

[neox.286]

nice list man, similar to the build Im planning actually (minus all the twin turbo stuff) (thumb)

only thing though is everyone is trying to give him their oppinion on what they think would work best for the TT setup, but I think he already has his mind made up on that iirc...

[S.A.MSP]

iirc?

yea i do have my mind pretty much made up but any suggestions are always welcome, i did post my idea on here, all the ems and other goodies too, i won't turn down suggestions tho :)

[neox.286]

if I recall correctly lol

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

hey man this is my TT thread, i respect you man but i'm trying to keep this thread on topic :) thanks for understanding

There you go... Deleted Post. sorry for that....

[Mazdaspeed2oo35]

thank you buddy, i really appreciate it

No problem Men.. we are all here to help each other..

[MSP608]

you actually clogged it more by saying you deleted it then him saying thanks then you responding again. you should delete all those comments....this message will self destruct afterwards.

[S.A.MSP]

Car goes into the shop on Monday then another month, maybe less for the built motor to get in then i can start the actual build :)

[MakeMeGoFast]

I'd say things are getting pretty exctiting around here. A TT build thread, and a race to N/A 100whp per liter thread. Lots will be learned from these.

[S.A.MSP]

i agree, the anticipation is killing me

[fatti03msp]

how much power are you looking to get.

[S.A.MSP]

i don't have a set number, this isn't really a horepower shoot out for me but of course i'm trying to go really big, i will only see what the twin turbo's will produce once it's on the dyno then i will see all i can get out of it

[neox.286]

I cant recall off the top of my head, but what setup did you finally settle on? (turbo wise, like size and setup)

[S.A.MSP]

well i'm doing a sequential setup, using the stocker to feed a bigger brother, i think it will be the best way to do it, still looking at which bigger brother to adopt, any suggestions?

[fatti03msp]

if you are sticking with garret then i would say the GT28 or GT30 from the lil knowledge i know i dont think the Protege can handle much more.

[neox.286]

personally Im going be to upgrading to a turbonetics t3/t4 hybrid for my build (once my block gets built later this year)...

the stocker spools up pretty quick and can put out 10-15 pounds easily which should be good enough to spool up a t3 or t4...Id say go with that in the 60mm trim or possibly bigger (though that should be plenty)

a friend of mine has an MSP with that turbo in it now and the amount of airflow it puts out makes that car insane...hes only running 10psi right now (Cause hes not forged until the end of the year) but hes pushing 250-260whp with that setup at the moment...of course with supporting mods, but still...image that when its putting out the capacity its meant for? (20+psi)

thats my suggestion

[S.A.MSP]

good suggestions, i'm looking into the other garret tubo's but i'll take a gander at the turbonetics ones also

[S.A.MSP]

This one looks badass imo, good price with mucho potencial

http://www.aptuning.net/Garrett_Turbo_Chargers_p/garrett%20t04r.htm

[fatti03msp]

which one lol

[neox.286]

nice

definately a good choice there

cause your going sequential then Id recommend getting the bigger housing

[S.A.MSP]

word up, i'm so damn exited to do this, it's gonna take a while but i'll get it done

[neox.286]

haha

I know the feeling man

I cant wait to tap into the potential that this car has either....Im so ready to do my build too, but damn the fact that it costs money! haha

[S.A.MSP]

haha. i hear ya man

[m_V_p651]

haha

I know the feeling man

I cant wait to tap into the potential that this car has either....Im so ready to do my build too, but damn the fact that it costs money! haha

lol

[orng1]

a friend of mine has an MSP with that turbo in it now and the amount of airflow it puts out makes that car insane...hes only running 10psi right now (Cause hes not forged until the end of the year) but hes pushing 250-260whp with that setup at the moment...of course with supporting mods, but still...image that when its putting out the capacity its meant for? (20+psi)


Wow Neox that sounds like quite a car, he must be running some impressive turbo. LOL Thanks for the praise, it's not just the turbo it's all the bolt ons working together. I have been trying to get rid of some of the torque and decided to go with mostly all top end parts. Most of everything on my car will be for top end, I don't car for bottom end now.

[jeffmsp]

sequential huh, So you are building the motor and tranny for 400+ then?

[neox.286]

Wow Neox that sounds like quite a car, he must be running some impressive turbo. LOL Thanks for the praise, it's not just the turbo it's all the bolt ons working together. I have been trying to get rid of some of the torque and decided to go with mostly all top end parts. Most of everything on my car will be for top end, I don't car for bottom end now.

haha yea

cars nice, the guys a dick =P

jk jk man haha

but yea, your car def is a beast man, and I know its not from just turbo but still lol, it def helps cause you dont have many different mods than me other than the turbo and the gain youve got over me is huge

anywho, sorry for the threadjack lol

[orng1]

It's good for us to talk about all the possible ways he can go on the build, I think it will fit well in the thread. I found where the turbo starts to spool is about 2400rpm in 2nd gear and before 4k it's reached full boost. I think how the IC set up is helps a lot. I'm not a jerk I try to be as helpful as I can but I will not help anyone that doesn't ask for it. I don't read minds and I have a lot on my own, so if or when you need help from me Neox ask. I already told you that your IC set up is hurting your performance, see helpfull.

[S.A.MSP]

^^^who are you talking about here, like a said, any advice is always welcome:)

[neox.286]

yea I know my intercooler setup is shit....but thats gonna be redone when I do my setup (thumb)

[Velocifero]

yea I know my intercooler setup is shit....but thats gonna be redone when I do my setup (thumb)

can you PM me details and possibly pics of your setup how it is now and what you are planning to change. If you don't mind.

OT: Keep up the good work Jacques! side note, I am dynoing the mani today at 5 if you want to make it, I am not waiting around though.

[S.A.MSP]

i will text and let you know man, i wanna be there, not sure if work will allow it today plus the traffic sucks ass that way

[orng1]

^^^who are you talking about here, like a said, any advice is always welcome:)

I was talking to Neox, but I also want people to see that you can make power and not lose driveability with a bigger turbo. I have been working on my set up for a while but I'm happy with the way it runs with the stock motor but I have a big goal once it's forged.

[MakeMeGoFast]

so any updates

[S.A.MSP]

i'm getting the car back in two weeks or so, it's been down 5 months now, to be honest though, it's not gonna happen, it is a beautifull dream to have a TT Protege but i'm getting older and living with my parents is not an option anymore, i'd like to get a house and take women there to take advantage of them without being afraid of someone walking in LOL

[Andrewsmc]

everyone doubting the idea, way more wild ideas have been done than putting 2 turbos on a damn car. money and time is all it takes

[S.A.MSP]

everyone doubting the idea, way more wild ideas have been done than putting 2 turbos on a damn car. money and time is all it takes

Correct, i was seriously gonna do it and i'm so sorry for letting everyone down

[Alejo_NIN]

well, you just made about half the world happy by saying that...and the other half still dreams someone might be crazy enough to do it some day

[S.A.MSP]

maybe that half of the world can all chip in and build a TT Protege, i'll even donate

[Andrewsmc]

good idea

[S.A.MSP]

that way we can all stop dreaming and actually see it, then we can raffle it off and donate the money!

[steedspeed]

That's just a crazy idea! Who would ever do that?

Anyway, here's the engine bay of my Celica lol!!!

[Shadow102]

That's just a crazy idea! Who would ever do that?

Anyway, here's the engine bay of my Celica lol!!!

needs a 22re

[steedspeed]

needs a 22re

It's CNC ported, O-ringed and the 20r head is far superior to the 22r head. One day I might slide a 22R block under the head for more cubes but as it sits it revs to just under 8000 (redline is 5500 lol!) and pushes you into the seat pretty hard even at 90mph.

[Shadow102]

It's CNC ported, O-ringed and the 20r head is far superior to the 22r head. One day I might slide a 22R block under the head for more cubes but as it sits it revs to just under 8000 (redline is 5500 lol!) and pushes you into the seat pretty hard even at 90mph.

everyone can use more cubes...but that manifold is definatly pretty need something like that for my honda

[Speed3.5]

what turbo you got there steed, looks wierd btw.i've never seen celica engine like that before dude , when you making intake manifold for protoges ????????????????

[steedspeed]

what turbo you got there steed, looks wierd btw.i've never seen celica engine like that before dude , when you making intake manifold for protoges ????????????????

Twin Mitsubishis from scrapyard Chryslers. Intake will happen when we get a test car. I saw a guy running 2 of these on a Dodge a while back and he was making huge power with less lag than a single T3.

[shane02pro5]

^Inspiration!