heat soak so bad?

[SeR_Cyclops]

So, Ive been wondering how bad heat soak is and every thing i mean i raced my friend in his 2000 Celia gts and he pulled as soon as i went into third i was right with him through first and second but as soon as i hit third he pulled, this is after two hours or so of driving so i was wondering how bad heat soak really is and also my cold side hard pipe is cracked its one of the stock ones and it broke lol, ne ways how bad is heat soak really.

[orng1]

Did you repair the pipe (glue it), what is your boost? Heat soak does suck bad with the stock side mount. I never realized that you could gain HP from an intercooler. I just thought it would maintanin the HP but wow what a diference when I first installed my FMIC. I gained a little more boost and pulls hard all day.

[SeR_Cyclops]

the boost gauge wobbles between 5-6.5 psi with the pipe broke.

[sandspeed]

heatsoak is pretty awful with the stock smic....at least get an upgraded smic if stay at stock psi.

[orng1]

Try fixing it, even if you do decide to replace it at least you'll still have a working stock pipe. An upgraded side mount intercooler is perfect for most people. You should be able to hold up well or beat a celica with a few simple mods. I had just a mid pipe back exhaust, CAI, and a MBC, I could beat a lot of modded cars in my area.

[SeR_Cyclops]

it just really pisses me off that my car falls on its face in third gear i mean daym!!!

[orng1]

it just really pisses me off that my car falls on its face in third gear i mean daym!!!

Try fixing the pipe. When I added the MBC it really helped out to steady the boost in the upper RPM. It held the 8psi I wanted, maybe a little more than that on cold mornings but still pretty good.

[1moreMPH]

you won't be able to get any decent power out of the MSP without an upgraded IC. In fact in my opinion it would actually be more efficient and powerful if you just took out the stock SMIC and ran a pipe straight from the turbo to the TB...but that's another can of worms.

Heat soak is a BIG freakin deal. On the dyno, I myself and others that i have seen have lost ~6-12hp between runs due to heat soak alone. And that is with a couple of minutes with the engine off cooling down a little bit; AND with front mount intercoolers. heat soak's a bitch, it pwns your car more than you realize.

That, and the stock SMIC doesn't even flow well, thus sapping even more power in the upper gears where the airflow is huge.

[SeR_Cyclops]

so which is better fmic or side mount cuz your saying that the fmic heat soaks the most? i thought it was the other way around

[ItsSlow]

If you get a front mount at least get one that has a 3in core.. The thicker they are, the better they cool.. At least, thats how I understand it..

[Speed3.5]

so which is better fmic or side mount cuz your saying that the fmic heat soaks the most? i thought it was the other way around


no what he said was different than what you understood.

his saying: even with a FMIC he noticed loss of power on the dyno where the engine gets hot as hell from the constant hard runs.

your saying: so even FMIC catches a lot of heatsock ?

The real deal: SMIC is the one who's prone of heatsoaking more ,specially the stock one. FMIC is the one that'll give you the best cold air and will sustain much more resistance toward heat on longer runs.

If you plan to stay at stock boost level than the least you could do to maintain the power is upgrade the stock side inter cooler to a biger+better SMIC other wise its best to get FMIC, your choice here.


as far as getting killed on street , your's is not as bad as mine.

I went against a 93 MT PROBE body but engine was swaped, a friend of mine.
On roll, from 30mph 2nd gear, we go and i was even untill i go to 3rd and he pulls hard on me and you can picture the rest.
He has some slight modification done to the N/A v6 2.5l engine.

[1moreMPH]

^ correct. FMIC will cool better, and give you more power, and much harder to heat soak. upgraded SMIC is sufficient for low boost levels, but i would still recommend an FMIC due to almost-equal-pricing once you get bov + hardpipes.

Also...i must disagree with the thicker core suggestion. Surface area is much more important and THAT will cool your charge air better. Once the air starts passing thru the core with hot air flowing through it from the turbo, the ambient cross air heats up more and more as it travels through the intercooler.

I know that's a little tough to make sense, but basically that first inch of the FMIC has great cooling. The second inch is ok, but less. By the 3rd inch or so, the core is quite hot and the cooling ability is greatly reduced. past 3" is not so good cooling.

Surface area will give you more of that "1st inch" cooling with more ambient cross air flowing through the intercooler. That will also heat soak less, and cool a lot more. So surface area is most important to an IC, not necessarily depth.

that's probably more than you were asking for, but there ya go. I'd rather have a almost-perrin-size core, that is only an inch thick; versus having a hiboost-size core that is 4 inches thick. If that makes more sense for ya. Ask any questions if you need any more explanation.

[SeR_Cyclops]

lol ok thats what i thought i figured the fmic would be cooler just cause it makes more sense that something with nothing blocking the air flow would cool better than something tucked away.

[SeR_Cyclops]

so what brand intercooler do you think would have the most sufficient core size such as the Perrin you explained, what I'm asking is give me like a list lol starting from best to worst.

[fr0st]

there was a thread about FMIC vs. SMIC.. i ordered a SMIC since im never gonna go above 10 psi

another factor you guys failed to mention is where you live.


surely if you live in texas where the ambiant temps is around 80-90 all the time, the car is gonna pull alot less than if you live like here where this time of year you get 70 F on days and 60F at night.

another thing is you guys speak of heatsoak on dynos and yes that counts.. but on the street when the car is moving it doesnt have the same effect..

the problem with the stock SMIC shoe box if not just heat soak, but resistance to CFM as in the the flow of air.. the more yo flow in the cooler the harder it is to flow some more..

a SMIC like a custom msp SMIC will not only have less heatsoak but will flow ALOT more air and more easily..

the bigger the intercooler ( FMIC) the more lag it adds since the turbo has to fill in all the space before building boost.. so it lags more...

if you put 2 msp side by side at 70 F, one with a SMIC(aftermarket) and the other with a FMIC, i bet the SMIC wins on the quarter

am i crazy to think so ?

[Speed3.5]

there was a thread about FMIC vs. SMIC.. i ordered a SMIC since im never gonna go above 10 psi

another factor you guys failed to mention is where you live.


surely if you live in texas where the ambiant temps is around 80-90 all the time, the car is gonna pull alot less than if you live like here where this time of year you get 70 F on days and 60F at night.

another thing is you guys speak of heatsoak on dynos and yes that counts.. but on the street when the car is moving it doesnt have the same effect..

the problem with the stock SMIC shoe box if not just heat soak, but resistance to CFM as in the the flow of air.. the more yo flow in the cooler the harder it is to flow some more..

a SMIC like a custom msp SMIC will not only have less heatsoak but will flow ALOT more air and more easily..

the bigger the intercooler ( FMIC) the more lag it adds since the turbo has to fill in all the space before building boost.. so it lags more...

if you put 2 msp side by side at 70 F, one with a SMIC(aftermarket) and the other with a FMIC, i bet the SMIC wins on the quarter

am i crazy to think so ?

you're not crazy but theoritically you are correct , on the other hand that 1/4 would depend on the driver as well .

[SeR_Cyclops]

and who cares about going fast when you see a fmic they look sick as hell

[fr0st]

and who cares about going fast when you see a fmic they look sick as hell

life is not all about *bling bling* (smash)

some are after performance and optimisation..(thumb)

[SeR_Cyclops]

lol yeah i guess but smic's are so expensive for the size....

[1moreMPH]

i don't think you can say that MSP vs. MSP, one with smic and the other with fmic; all else equal the smic will win. That is a very vague statement.

Honestly, it really depends on your goals for the car and what your setup is. If you plan on modding very lightly (intake, legal exhaust, less than 10psi, cool climate, daily driven;) then SMIC may be right for you, and yes your car could be faster with it than with a large fmic. Many high-hp drag cars run with some style of smic, or no IC at all...but they are not daily driven and thus prone to heat-soak as many msp's are.

If you plan on boosting a lot though, a fmic is a necessity in my opinion. As well as if you have big plans, or want true top end power. Depending on the setup it can be less "peppy" with a fmic, but the top end and flow will be much greater. In my opinion a small fmic (hiboost or BEGi size) is still a better option than the smic... but what's again relevant is that i do live in Texas, where it was 110 degrees the day i got tuned for example.

My experience with the Hiboost has been wonderful. Before i got it i did a lot of research and decided that that would be the ideal size for me. It's relatively small so there's virtually no lag, because i really liked the 'quickness' of the msp and didn't want to take away from that. I did want a fmic just because it cools so much more and in texas that's important. I did not feel the need however for such a big core such as the perrin because i didn't see the need. After having the hiboost through most of the summer now, on occassion i DO wich i would have gone a little bigger (perhaps PG size?) for even cooler temps and bigger numbers as my goals have changed a little. but i am still happy overall with the hiboost, and in my mind NOTHING beats driveability.

[SeR_Cyclops]

well last week here in ky the heat index was 110 and temp was 103 what would you recommend? but in the winter it get down too mid 20's high teens and how much of a diff is there in throttle responce?

[1moreMPH]

As far as a list goes...here's just the top of my head from smallest to largest (feel free to fill in the gaps, anyone):

BEGi, HiBoost, Corksport, MAM, iON, Perrin.

the BEGi, Hiboost, and Corksport are going to keep the driveability of the car very well even un-tuned. Any bigger and there will be a difference with lag, especially with the Perrin which imo is way too huge -- but that's for my car and my goals. i think the Corksport one is as close to a ''perfect size'' as one could get between great cooling and little lag, with good pipe routing. The MAM ive been told is a pita, and the iON is rare. BEGi i THINK cools really really well for it's size but i could be mistaken. discuss...

[1moreMPH]

well last week here in ky the heat index was 110 and temp was 103 what would you recommend? but in the winter it get down too mid 20's high teens and how much of a diff is there in throttle responce?

i would get in on the Corksport group buy right now. I wish i had waited another 2 months, because i would jump on that like white on rice. it's hot shit, great quality, perfect size, good pipe routing, options, easy install, great price... anyone would love that.

As far as summer/winter driving goes... you could always set your boost at 8-9 psi for summer and keep it down at 7 for winter to compensate. There will be a little bit of lag, but nothing unbearable, and probably not noticeable except at very low speed - low rpm driving.

[orangeade]

i would get in on the PG group buy right now. I wish i had waited another 2 months, because i would jump on that like white on rice. it's hot shit, great quality, perfect size, good pipe routing, options, easy install, great price... anyone would love that.



sorry guys, one drink too many tonight but if you can help point me in the right direction........what PG group buy are we talking about? by PG i'm assuming you're talking about protege garage....i've checked their site and their section on this thread but wasn't able to find an intercooler GB......

[ItsSlow]

sorry guys, one drink too many tonight but if you can help point me in the right direction........what PG group buy are we talking about? by PG i'm assuming you're talking about protege garage....i've checked their site and their section on this thread but wasn't able to find an intercooler GB......

He might have meant corksport.. I know they are having a groupbuy on their fmic..

[Knox Joe]

the bigger the intercooler ( FMIC) the more lag it adds since the turbo has to fill in all the space before building boost.. so it lags more...

if you put 2 msp side by side at 70 F, one with a SMIC(aftermarket) and the other with a FMIC, i bet the SMIC wins on the quarter




Wrong.

There is no more lag on a properly sized FMIC as there is on a SMIC.
How many times do people have to tell you that's not true?
How many times are you gonna tell people that the SMIC is better, while talking out of your ass?

You are misinforming people and need to stop.

Do you need to justify to yourself why you went SMIC?

I'm sorry but if you line up a car with the same mods, on the same day, with the same driver, the SMIC car is not going to win.

I have had both installed, so don't argue with me because I am speaking from actual, EXPERIENCE. Try it sometime.

[Arok22]

ahhhhhhh. Stock SMIC.... Drop it like it's hot! (breakn)

[BOOSTR]

This guy needs to fix his broken pipe before trying to race again. There is nothing wrong with choosing an upgraded smic for your MSP. It works well at stock boost and more if you have the balls to run it. I know that from actual EXPERIENCE.

[Knox Joe]

This guy needs to fix his broken pipe before trying to race again. There is nothing wrong with choosing an upgraded smic for your MSP. It works well at stock boost and more if you have the balls to run it. I know that from actual EXPERIENCE.

Sure it works better than stock, but he's claiming it's better than FMIC. That's just stupid.

And unless you've had a FMIC (which it doesn't look like you do) you are not speaking from EXPERIENCE.(ugh)

You can't compare the two unless you've run the two, and I have.

[BOOSTR]

Yes you can as a matter of fact and I specifically choose an smic over an fmic for my needs. I'm not trying to debate you or anyone else. Get whatever heat exchanger works for you and your application.

IMO its the factory tune more so than the intercooler that is the problem. I own two Mazda factory turbo cars and both run smic's. So I feel more than qualified to speak on the subject based on my EXPERIENCE.

Here's an article on stock smic/ upgraded smic / fmic on the same car. After reading it MAYBE you'll check your tone and think twice about calling people stupid or saying that they are ass flapping.

http://www.tyrolsport.com/sidemount.htm

[Knox Joe]

Yes you can as a matter of fact and I specifically choose an smic over an fmic for my needs. I'm not trying to debate you or anyone else. Get whatever heat exchanger works for you and your application.

IMO its the factory tune more so than the intercooler that is the problem. I own two Mazda factory turbo cars and both run smic's. So I feel more than qualified to speak on the subject based on my EXPERIENCE.
(braindead

WTF?

You have no experience comparing a front mount to a side mount, so no, you aren't speaking from EXPERIENCE.

What the fuck is so hard to understand about that?

you cannot say the side mount is better than a front mount if you haven't tried both!!!!!!! that's fucking retarded!!!!!!

[1moreMPH]

easy boys.

I agree, most of the time an FMIC will be better than any type of SMIC. If you are staying close to stock or live in Antarctica then the SMIC may be better for you in some ways but you still won't be making the power that an FMIC can. I would opt for a small fmic over any sort of smic you can cram in our cars in a heartbeat.

And before anyone flames, i have the Hiboost (smaller fmic) right now and ive had the smic in the past. I have driven cars throughout their mod process with anything between the customMSP side mount to the over-the-top Perrin Front mount. I think it was KnoxJoe who said that "with a properly sized intercooler there should be no lag". Correct, I agree with this to an extent. If you're not boosting a shit-ton you don't need a huge intercooler, and if you up your psi just a bit, with our small turbos it will fill the gaps very quickly and there isn't any noticeable lag (except a little at low speed, low rpm driving where it doesn't matter anyway). Now if you slap on the Perrin to a stock MSP, it is going to run like asscrack and there will be a lot of lag, because it's improper size. Been there, done that. driveability = 0. The hiboost won't change much with the drive, and while there is 0 lag, you won't get as big numbers and i would be careful if you wanted to boost upwards of 15psi...

So it all depends on your setup. And sorry i keep using the Perrin as my large example, and Hiboost as the low... In NO means do i mean to knock either of these products, I have the hiboost and one of my good friends has the Perrin and they are GREAT products if properly setup. Either one is fantastic, so don't take my typing examples to mean negative :)

****And yes, that was a brain fart -- it's NOT the protege garage fmic group buy, it IS Corksport.****
*****Here's the thread: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123676839&page=9&highlight=corksport+group+buy*****

[Knox Joe]

easy boys.





Sorry.

Ignorance pisses me off.

[SeR_Cyclops]

OK i plan on staying at 9psi when i get supporting mods that i am working, another thing is i seen some people doing custom setups, sometimes i dont like the route and all the couplers but what if someone got the same size core as a high boost and ran the pipes similar to the same routing and took the pieces to a welding shop and got them welded, would it perform the same as a high boost? I'm just trying to get all the options here and evaluate them evenly.

[Knox Joe]

OK i plan on staying at 9psi when i get supporting mods that i am working, another thing is i seen some people doing custom setups, sometimes i dont like the route and all the couplers but what if someone got the same size core as a high boost and ran the pipes similar to the same routing and took the pieces to a welding shop and got them welded, would it perform the same as a high boost? I'm just trying to get all the options here and evaluate them evenly.

You could piece together something really good for less than any pre-fab FMIC kit or SMIC w/ hard pipes.

You just need some 90's, some straights, some silicon couplers, and t-bolt clamps. Maybe a few more bends. You'll have to have a BPV flange welded on, but that's it really.

If I could do it all over that is what I'd do. Then I could route the piping to be a little cleaner, and it would be about half price.

Get you a good quality core and build a kit.

[1moreMPH]

If i had to do it again, i would probably custom as well. I did not know enough about it before, but now that i see how everything goes i would definitely custom it. And i feel like it wouldn't be that bad, and could probably perform better. Cheaper too. wayyy cheaper. Also if you custom, you can easily choose whatever bov you want and get the right flange for it, AND you can relocate the maf. custom is the way to go imo.

welding is fine if that's what you want, not necessary, but it will eliminate the possibility of blowing a pipe off...which ive done numerous times. It won't perform any better really... Yes if you copied the piping route of any of the fmic's out there you will get the same results. Shorter piping = less lag, very peppy. Longer piping = (arguably) better cooling, little more lag. Piping is piping though, you can't really make ''better'' piping. Use aluminum for better heat transfer and less weight, but that's about it.

[BOOSTR]

Your just going to have to be pissed off dude. If you read the article you'll see that a myth was busted. Guess that we will agree to disagree. But yeah I can comment after seeing dyno charts of MSP's with both ICs.If you have a problem comprehending that so be it.

[Knox Joe]

Your just going to have to be pissed off dude. If you read the article you'll see that a myth was busted. Guess that we will agree to disagree. But yeah I can comment after seeing dyno charts of MSP's with both ICs.If you have a problem comprehending that so be it.

So you're bench racing?(bowdown)

[BOOSTR]

So you're bench racing?(bowdown)


Back at you hillbilly!(jerkit)

[Knox Joe]

Back at you hillbilly!(jerkit)

I'm not the one going by "specs" and "dyno sheets", tool.(ugh)

How the hell can I be bench racin when I have actually ran both set-ups?

[1moreMPH]

what's being argued here? Im confused.

[fr0st]

what's being argued here? Im confused.

not much...

what started as an exchange of opinion, fucked up..

[benflagg]

What kind of turbo, and how much boost, and the volume of air that has to be pressurized are all important factors that come into play when matching an intercooler to your setup. Not to mention the kind of driving that your going to do. All this arguing about what kind of intercooler is better is kind of pointless. So please, gentlemen, dont get your E-peens all hurt, and tied up in nots.

[1moreMPH]

hahaha, ^he said E-peens. but yea i agree.

[SeR_Cyclops]

lol so what kinda core and what size should i get i mean there are so many and what pipeing kit and what size pipes lol if i relocate the mafs then i wont need to weld on a bpv fitting like knoxjoe stated will i?

[SeR_Cyclops]

can someone that knows a little about fmic's show me a link on ebay of the piping kit that would be suitable for a msp.

[Knox Joe]

lol so what kinda core and what size should i get i mean there are so many and what pipeing kit and what size pipes lol if i relocate the mafs then i wont need to weld on a bpv fitting like knoxjoe stated will i?

You'll still need a BPV or BOV of some kind.

[SeR_Cyclops]

i was thinkin about maf relocation with a bov i would run it like this,

BOV-Maf-Intake mani

also i would vent to air.

[1moreMPH]

correct. That will work.

the whole setup goes like this:
intake--turbo--hot pipe--IC core--cold pipe (with bov welded on)--MAF--throttle body

For your application (whoever asked about 3 posts ago), i would stay with a small FMIC. HiBoost, BEGi, or corksport if you want a kit. If you're going custom, i would get a core somewhere in the ballpark of those fmic's sizing.

To maintain driveability, if you are going to get EMS (unichip, AFC, etc...) you may go a little larger than you would without EMS. I would stick to Hiboost/BEGi size without EMS because a fmic changes the system so much. Your stock computer is teh poop.

[SeR_Cyclops]

i am for SURE going with a split second afc version two, but im still not sure about a intercooler size and what piping kit to get off ebay, there are so many and i really dont know which one is the best for our cars, someone that has dones this or knows bout this please show me or send me a link from a site such as ebay, as for the core size i guess we will have to debate it out.

[1moreMPH]

especially with the AFC, i would not hesitate a second longer and get in on the Corksport fmic group buy. That is a HELL of a kit, at a GREAT price.

if you must go custom, i would go talk to a custom turbo shop or exhaust shop and ask them about piping options.

[Knox Joe]

After seeing the price, and the fact that he would have to lose a fan with the CS kit, I'd have to say, I think you'll be better off going custom.

The only thing with the piping is that it has to match the turbo inlet and outlet, the throttle body, and the intercooler core inlet, and outlet.

I remember you saying your Dad works on cars. With the right size piping, and everything else I said, you guys should be able to get something going.

[SeR_Cyclops]

yeah i dont really think doing the job will be a problem just getting the right stuff to asemble the kit.

[1moreMPH]

muffler shops have a lot of piping usually, or at least may know where to get it. They also have shit to bend it with if necessary. That, or custom turbo shops. I would talk to them before buying a generic Ebay kit and piecing from there.

[SeR_Cyclops]

well see there is not any turbo shops in somerset ky, thats the thing we have exhaust shops but they wont know. i know because we have some of our work done there and they are plain exhaust shops nothing special.

[SeR_Cyclops]

bump

[SeR_Cyclops]

can anyone give me a link to ebay showing me the right piping kit for a msp (universal) because there is so many kinds!!!

[Arok22]

can anyone give me a link to ebay showing me the right piping kit for a msp (universal) because there is so many kinds!!!

I've been tossing around the FMIC custom route for a little while now. I've been reading to see what would work the best for heat issues etc. I have found a piping kit that I would consider. I will post the link to it and an FMIC core that I've been looking at and a pipe kit. When it comes to intercoolers you'll want to use a bar and plate design. You will want a 2.5 inlet/outlet for your IC and then you can pick up a universal Aluminum piping kit. I've been looking at all the FMIC kits for the MSP and studying their pipe routings to determine how much I would need to make the custom kit work. I also talked to a custom shop in town and they can TIG weld a flange for me for a minimal cost.
You could easily make your own kit for $300 and time. Saves a lot of money plus you could do a MAF relocate very easily.

FMIC: it is small like the hiboost and begi. This would work great for Stock boost and perhaps a little more. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AVRI&viewitem=&item=190144000643&rd=1

Pipe kit: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FMIC-TURBO-INTERCOOLER-PIPING-KIT-C-R-CIVIC-DEL-SOL-CRX_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ016QQitem Z260151672707QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

(drive2)

[SeR_Cyclops]

thanks alot i looked everywhere, searched and everything and couldnt find anything.... btw what kind of shop would tig? a welding shop? and did they give you a price?

[Arok22]

thanks alot i looked everywhere, searched and everything and couldnt find anything.... btw what kind of shop would tig? a welding shop? and did they give you a price?

Pretty much any welding shop can do it. As long as they have a TIG welder, they should be able to help. I also saw some stainless steel 2.5" piping at www.horsepowerfreaks.com for a reasonable price. The links I gave you are for aluminum pipe. I like that kit because it gives you lots of pipe to work with and a ton of couplers/ t-clamps. You could use the couplers to mock up a kit and have it all welded together or you can just use the couplers to join your pipes. If you are staying around stock boost, no real reason to get it all welded except for looks. Much better if you are doing a MAF relocate. The seller for the pipe kit I sent you also offers blue coupler sets and black pipe/red coupler sets. Gives you a variety of colors to choose from. I like the polished pipe and the red couplers. It will match my intake well. (eekdance)

[1moreMPH]

you'll want aluminum for hardpipes. Stainless steel is much heavier and it doesn't flow heat away like aluminum -- aka, with aluminum hardpipes, even more heat is dissipated from the pipes themselves cooling the intake charge even more. SS traps the heat inside and doesn't transfer it.

[Cisco]

I am fairly new to the Mazdaspeed world and I keep seeing the term "heatsoak" come up. I wasnt sure what it meant but got the impression it had to do with the pipes from what everyone was saying. Then I googled it and go a definition from Garrets website that says its internal in the turbo and it was significantly reduced when they introduced water cooled turbos:

"Following a hot shutdown of a turbocharger, heat soak begins. This means that the heat in the head, exhaust manifold, and turbine housing finds it way to the turbo’s center housing, raising its temperature. These extreme temperatures in the center housing can result in oil coking.

To minimize the effects of heat soak-back, water-cooled center housings were introduced. These use coolant from the engine to act as a heat sink after engine shutdown, preventing the oil from coking. The water lines utilize a thermal siphon effect to reduce the peak heat soak-back temperature after key-off. The layout of the pipes should minimize peaks and troughs with the (cool) water inlet on the low side. To help this along, it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25° about the axis of shaft rotation."


Can anyone shed some light on what it actually means? How do you tell if you are getting heatsoak?

Thanks

[SeR_Cyclops]

well the just of it would be it uses water from the engine to cool the turbo instead of oil and this would prolly be better b/c the water is getting colder by running through the radiator, as we all know the oil does not have such a luxury. lol

[Knox Joe]

Can anyone shed some light on what it actually means? How do you tell if you are getting heatsoak?

Thanks

When we say heat soak around here we mean that the intercooler has gotten so warm that it is no longer really cooling the intake charge, because the metal that makes up the intercooler has become "soaked" with heat.

What Garret is talking about is all the metal components in the engine and turbo set-up getting hot, and also "soaked" with heat, so they want you to do a cool down before shutdown. I'm kinda anal about it so my turbo timer was set to 2 mins.

[TitaniumSpeed24]

Yeah, theyre saying heat-soak as far as their turbo maintanence goes. The heat-soak you hear about on this forum is dealing with the fact that after running the MSP for a while, the turbo is basically taking in hot air due to the innefficiency of the stock intercooler.

[Cisco]

That makes sense. How do eliminate or lower the amount of heat soak you are getting to a SMIC? would upgrading stock have any impact on this? Thanks for helping me understand....

[1moreMPH]

That makes sense. How do eliminate or lower the amount of heat soak you are getting to a SMIC? would upgrading stock have any impact on this? Thanks for helping me understand....

HUGE impact.

right now, your stock intercooler is smaller than the sheet of paper in your printer, AND it is tucked back behind the bumper so that no ambient (outside) air can reach it. Go read how intercoolers cool the charge air, and you'll see that if the only air around it is already hot from the engine bay, it cannot do a very good job heating it. Also the bigger it is, the better it cools, and our stock is TINY.

From those 2 things it would make perfect sense that a larger intercooler located at the front of the car in the lower grill will cool a hell of a lot more than the crappy smic. This is called a fmic -- a Front Mount InterCooler. Most fmic's that you see are at least 3x the size of the stock smic, and are again located in the front of the car so that air cool air passes through it as you drive along.

Upgraded the smic to a better will help a ton as well for 2 reasons. 1) better flow capacity -- the stocker is very restrictive in the amount of charge air it lets pass through with ease. 2) it is only so-so in the heat dissipation compartment. Upgrading to a customMSP or turbohoses smic will help muchos because they have better flow and cooling capabilities.

FMIC will cool more than SMIC hands down, it's a matter of flow, drivability, boost, and money. more boost = hotter temps = more cooling needed = bigger IC. the general rule around here seems to be if your 9psi or less, smic will work fine -- although fmic will always cool better and give you more power. hope that helps.