Shifting

[LENNY127]

so who here powershifts the car? (basically no lifting off the gas as u press the clutch)...reason why I am asking is I have taken my car to the strip so I know what it does stock, I have a G-tech to compare that to so I calibrated it to match the track times and now I can see speed increments from zero to whatever and I notice that the shifting really eats up alot of the E.T. , for example at redline in second gear this car is at 57mph or so so third is needed to achieve 60 mph which means a 0- 60 in this car is around 6 seconds on a perfect launch but if second gear was a bit taller and it could achieve say 62mph the 0 - 60 times would be 5.4 seconds. I also noticed that on a particular run my 0-50 times were 4.5 and when I shifted into 3rd it was again showing 50mph at 5.08 seconds......anyways I am still trying to improve my shifting (going into 3rd is the toughest) so any thoughts on technique?

[eddienyny]

Was wondering the same thing the other day on the best shifting technique for the MS3. Was messing around with a few and was wondering what other people are doing for best acceleration:

1) Shift close to redline
2) Shift at around 5500rpm
3) Short shift to 3rd
4) Redline 1st and shift straight to 3rd

Most of the magazines that have posted ET recommends short shifting to 3rd. I presume this is to take advantage of full torque since we're capped in 1st/2nd. Feels a little awkward to short shift for better acceleration.

Thoughts?

[Abaddon]

I believe I read in Car and driver that they got their best E.T. when they launched at just over 1000rpm, and power shifted EARLY through second and third.

[civilianx]

car and driver had a review and how to shift (as per some Mazda rep they spoke to when they were unable to reproduce the claimed numbers...)

not sure if I can copy that here, so it may be deleted. not sure what those rules are. if so, you can hit their site, see the review dated November 2006 the 9th and 10th paragraphs...

from that review/article..

"The Mazdaspeed 3 is only a bit less tricky to launch than a space shuttle. Most of the runs up the drag strip vanished in excessive tire smoke. Or they deflated when the driver, trying to stanch the wheelspin, inadvertently cued the waste gate. Or grabbed the wrong gear with the spongy shifter. Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 — redline is 6700 — and flat-shift through second and third (which means don’t lift at all — the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).

“Don’t worry,” the engineers said, “it won’t break.”

It didn’t — even after painting the pavement Bridgestone black with more than 30 hole shots. Working the shifter feverishly — the low ratios in first and second mean two shifts happen before 60 mph — we finally scorched a 5.8-second 0-to-60 time and a 14.4-second quarter-mile at 99 mph."

[DeadGeneration]

I believe I read in Car and driver that they got their best E.T. when they launched at just over 1000rpm, and power shifted EARLY through second and third.

I don't have any thing to add to this thread but I noticed your 89 in a 50 user title. I got 59 in a 25 but the cop got me while I was still accelerating, would have been 90 in a 25 if he had been on his toes. My ticket costs were also $300 but several hours of computer tests.

[Speedy3]

You definitely do not want to skip 2nd gear. Acceleration is highest at the lowest gear and decreases as you go up. I found that flat-shifting or power shifting yields the best results, but I don't like the wear and tear it produces. Any turbo car produces faster times keeping the turbo spooled up as you shift. Without flat-shifting, I prefer to quick shift from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd at about 5700 RPM. I can quick shift this car very fast now. I use a combination of cupping the shifter instead of full fisted, gripping it and shifting below 5700 RPMs makes the shifting much smoother and go into gear quicker. The synchros mesh up best below 6000 RPMs especially going from 2nd to 3rd, besides, power drops off at around 5550 RPM, so there is no need to redline this car. Getting into the next gear with the RPMS around 3500 to 3750 hits the torque peak point, but shifting at redline not only loses the peak HP prior to the shift, but it also wastes the useable torque range in the next gear.

1st Gear (DSC off):
The biggest bennefit I found is to be prepared to get out of first gear very quick, don't go WOT in first, and don't rev above 6200 RPMs. First gear is very tricky to say the least. Feather the clutch a little in 1st to keep wheel spin minimized; you don't want to go from 1st to 2nd smoking the tires. Turbo boost will be less going into 2nd, you will most likely have redlined the engine, so power would have dropped off and your rpms for 2nd will be below the torque sweet-spot because your speed is pre-mature for 2nd gear.

2nd Gear:
I get the quickest engine response after shifting into 2nd by , gradually, but quickly go to WOT in 2nd to just under 6000 RPMs. I found that going WOT after shifting into 2nd causes a minor hesitaion and burble or burp. The other option that works best (but adds more wear and tear) is to go WOT in 2nd right away while feathering the clutch. This also seems to eliminate the burp from the exhaust.

3rd Gear:
This is easiest gear to miss. I used to have synchro meshing problems with 3rd gear quite often until I figured out that you cannot shift into 3rd very easily above 6k RPMS. If you have ever got the grinding going into 3rd, it's because you shifted at too high of RPMS. I usually just shift very fast into 3rd just below 6k RPMS, then feather the clutch with WOT or gradually, but quickly go to WOT without feathering the clutch. Just like going into 2nd, going WOT right after shifting into 3rd sometimes causes a minor hesitaion and burble or burp.

Using the above technique, I managed a 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds and 1/4 mile of 14.3 seconds when my car was completely stock. I haven't tried a run since ugrading, but plan to soon.

[laloosh]

Flat shifting and this car don't get along. 1-2, 2-3,3-4 if u shift them very fast powershifting all 3 shifts will go in but GRIND.
I managed a 14.2 @ 99 missing 5th gear with 2.15 60 foot time.
Not missing a gear with a shit 2.3 60 i went 14.2 @ 101.66
this is all bone stock.
2500rmp, feather the clutch go wot throttle, hit 2nd hard rev to 6k each time.

Now here comes the problem. I tried on several runs to shift into 5th and leave it in 4th. The results were the same, but if u can powershift 5th (very hard to do) shifting to 5th is better.

I am picking up my redline mt90 fuild today, hopefully the grinds will go away.
Btw i am not new to manual, ive been driving stick for years, and never heard a car grind wot shifting, it kinda worries me as i am under 2k miles and should not be hearing grinding noises

[blacksheepms3]

Flat shifting and this car don't get along. 1-2, 2-3,3-4 if u shift them very fast powershifting all 3 shifts will go in but GRIND.
I managed a 14.2 @ 99 missing 5th gear with 2.15 60 foot time.
Not missing a gear with a shit 2.3 60 i went 14.2 @ 101.66
this is all bone stock.
2500rmp, feather the clutch go wot throttle, hit 2nd hard rev to 6k each time.

Now here comes the problem. I tried on several runs to shift into 5th and leave it in 4th. The results were the same, but if u can powershift 5th (very hard to do) shifting to 5th is better.

I am picking up my redline mt90 fuild today, hopefully the grinds will go away.
Btw i am not new to manual, ive been driving stick for years, and never heard a car grind wot shifting, it kinda worries me as i am under 2k miles and should not be hearing grinding noises

I can understand this thread better if I know wot. what's wot? please explain thatnks. I agree with some of you guys like not reving till 6000 cause then you'll miss 3rd gear. happens to me too and I hate it! I put the rev on 1900rpm from stop then fast feather 1st. I'd miss 2nd when shifting with 6000 or above rpm. I rather shift at 5500 into 2nd. i'd miss 3rd too when revving too high. heck I miss all the gears! haha jk not 4th to 6th they're easy to get into. I tried 1st to 3rd, corvette owners does this but theirs is 1st to 4th. Their cars doesnt allow them to shift to 2nd or 3rd when the rev is really high. They call is "1-4 shift" I figure when going up to 5500 and u achieved speed at 1st u've already over shot the optimal speed for 2nd, so the 3rd can pick up from then on. But I dont do that often. Sometimes I leave my foot on the gas only enough to put the rpm on 3000rpm while i'm shifting so when it engage it's on the meat of the powerband already.

[Rotary_Powered]

WIDE OPEN THROTTLE (foot to the ground between shifts)

[Speedy3]

Flat shifting and this car don't get along. 1-2, 2-3,3-4 if u shift them very fast powershifting all 3 shifts will go in but GRIND.

I have had the exact opposite experience with flat shifting. I never grind when flat shifting, but grind when normal shifting if I exceed 6k RPMS and try to shift fast. [Flat Shifting or Power Shifting: Leave gas at WoT when shifting between gears, using clutch only]


I managed a 14.2 @ 99 missing 5th gear with 2.15 60 foot time.
Not missing a gear with a shit 2.3 60 i went 14.2 @ 101.66
this is all bone stock..

Nice times!

[laloosh]

Thx but i was really mad i missed 5th. I think on the 2.15 60 foot time i could have maybe broken a 13.999999 stock. But NOOOOO (bow) i hate the stupid 4-5 shit

[Rotary_Powered]

5th gear in a 1/4 mile? WTH? There's no way the gears are THAT short. Right?

[Speedy3]

5th gear in a 1/4 mile? WTH? There's no way the gears are THAT short. Right?

According to Car and Driver, 5th gear goes to just under 100 MPH.

[laloosh]

no the gears arnt that short, but the powerband is. Anything over 6k rmp and you are wasting your time even thought he car redlines at 6700-6800. 4th gear at 6k rmp is around 92-94mph so yea, ure pretty much stuck shifting to 5th or going from 250whp to 170whp.

[fourthmeal]

I found that pre-engine fall out, I would grind all the time, driving "spirited", but the very moment that I got the car back with all the recall work performed, I haven't had a single gear grind since. And that's something, because after the repair, I drove the living crap out of the car to make sure it wasn't going to fail again.

[laloosh]

i had the recall performed, i just switched to mt90 and filled my mount with epoxy. I will go for a test drive in 3-4 hours when i put it back together. The mount is not filled all the way, but its better than nothing and im too lazy to run to the parts store for more lol

[camrycev6]

I grind third when driving really hard. It is also the one gear I miss the most. Drives me crazy!

[laloosh]

Ok, omg this should ever1's first mod. I can now keep boost in btwn shifts. Shifting is 100% better than stock. Mt90 plus half ass filled motor mount with epoxy is ftw lol

[fourthmeal]

yeah I missed 3rd just about 5% of the time before the recall work. After, 0%

[camrycev6]

What recall work helped you shift? The engine mount fix? I suppose if it was loose and on the verge of going, that makes sense. Mine wasn't loose at all (It didn't need the new bolt at all actually.) I just don't like the long throw and the notchy shifter...you have to be very precise....

[CTGrey02]

We really need a sprung shifter for this car that automatically finds the 3rd gear spot more positively than the stock shifter. A lot of times I want to pass aggressively on the highway and instead of dumping to third like I wanted from 6th I end up in 5th.

[fourthmeal]

What recall work helped you shift? The engine mount fix? I suppose if it was loose and on the verge of going, that makes sense. Mine wasn't loose at all (It didn't need the new bolt at all actually.) I just don't like the long throw and the notchy shifter...you have to be very precise....



I imagine the difference may come from the way they had to re-align all the cables and connections after the trans mount failed. Perhaps there are some tweaking points to work on.

I do know that I had one hell of a time with the shifter before the incident, but just afterwards, its been awesome.

[camrycev6]

My 3rd gear issues remain unchanged...I will have to look for another solution.

[dichiee]

My 3rd gear won't go it if I shift fast hehe

[fourthmeal]

My 3rd gear issues remain unchanged...I will have to look for another solution.


I just want to verify something with you...you stated that you didn't require the new bolt (with the correct washer, etc.), ...does this mean that your car already had this work done on it, or that your dealership found this bolt tight as is? The reason why I ask is that my dealership also found the bolt tight, but it still sheared right off. It was too weak of a bolt, and it was incorrectly tightened without a washer. Please clarify on that for me.

[camrycev6]

I didn't required a new bolt because I had the correct type of mount -- which is what he said was causing the issue. The tech explained to me in that the bad mount had a rubber ear on it that was allowing too much flexibility. In some cases the bolt would come loose and then with enough force and vibration, break or come out. (But usually break.) Again, since my mount was the kind without the rubber ear, I didn't need anything done to it.

[CaSHMeRe]

when you get an STS on the MS3 ... you will never has issues with ANY gear EVER again ...

[camrycev6]

Sts?

[laloosh]

cash, i read ure sts thread, great work btw. Is there a possiblity of you making it, shipping it out and doing a core replacement type of deal?

[CaSHMeRe]

Sts?

Short Throw Shifter

because the stock throws are so long and vague, people have issues with it.

A STS really makes things precise.

[camrycev6]

Ah...yes, I have been told this will help tremendously. Who makes a good one? How much to buy it and have it put in?

[CaSHMeRe]

cash, i read ure sts thread, great work btw. Is there a possiblity of you making it, shipping it out and doing a core replacement type of deal?

um... i was thinking about it. however, might just be making a full replacement.

for those not familiar with my STS, take a look !

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/wm/2061e237-49eb-4d68-9121-994b01785795.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/wm/60965ccc-8056-431a-b1a5-994b015f36ee.htm

[CaSHMeRe]

Ah...yes, I have been told this will help tremendously. Who makes a good one? How much to buy it and have it put in?

no one makes one yet.

i believe, the first commercially available one will be TWM, which should be in a few weeks.

then cobb, whenever they decide to release stuff.

[redspeed]

I didn't required a new bolt because I had the correct type of mount -- which is what he said was causing the issue. The tech explained to me in that the bad mount had a rubber ear on it that was allowing too much flexibility. In some cases the bolt would come loose and then with enough force and vibration, break or come out. (But usually break.) Again, since my mount was the kind without the rubber ear, I didn't need anything done to it.

Uh? I would really check back with that "tech". Even if you don't have any issues they're supposed to change the bolt. The new bolt is stronger and have some kind of safety washer.

[Speedy3]

Uh? I would really check back with that "tech". Even if you don't have any issues they're supposed to change the bolt. The new bolt is stronger and have some kind of safety washer.

I agree. The Tech at Pinnacle Mazda told me my bolt was at spec torque, but he was supposed to cut off the excess rubber from around the inside of the "U" area and install the new bolt. The new bolt was in a clear bag that was delivered to the dealer for the recall. He had a set of instructions he was working from that told him what he told me. That tech that worked Camrycev6's 3 is full of shit.

[blacksheepms3]

We really need a sprung shifter for this car that automatically finds the 3rd gear spot more positively than the stock shifter. A lot of times I want to pass aggressively on the highway and instead of dumping to third like I wanted from 6th I end up in 5th.

6th to 3rd? wow, that must put a lot of stress on the drive shaft. Do you hear a thud when you do that? Cause I do it from time to time (4th to 2nd) and I hear a thud as if I picked 1 gear lower than optimal. But then the car really goes. I dont know if it's ok or it's really hurting the transmission or what.

[blacksheepms3]

um... i was thinking about it. however, might just be making a full replacement.

for those not familiar with my STS, take a look !

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/wm/2061e237-49eb-4d68-9121-994b01785795.htm

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/wm/60965ccc-8056-431a-b1a5-994b015f36ee.htm

nice sts. did you fabricate it from scratch or did u just cut off the existing ms3 shifter?

[fourthmeal]

Originally Posted by CTGrey02
We really need a sprung shifter for this car that automatically finds the 3rd gear spot more positively than the stock shifter. A lot of times I want to pass aggressively on the highway and instead of dumping to third like I wanted from 6th I end up in 5th.

Turbos just don't produce the power curve that way, though. One gear down should do it, maybe two. I regularly go from 6th to 5th at freeway speeds, and 5th to 4th on the streets, but in a 6-gear car, unless you just got out of a traffic jam on the freeway, I'd say 3rd is far too low. Use the advantage turbo cars have, they build horsepower from load, not RPM. Besides, this car runs out of huff at 5.8K or so, best to just get under the 3.5K range w/ a full spooled turbo, IMO.

[Jays07MS3]

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one to miss the 2-3 shift every now and again. I hate how long the throw on this shifter is. It is similar to how my stock 97 Eclipse shifter was. I dropped in a B&M short shifter with a 40% reduction in throw and some steel bushings and it made a world of difference. A short shifter will probably be my next mod. It drives me crazy when I grind into 3 gear. My girlfriend jokes with me whenever I do it that I must still be getting use to the clutch (I have 4K miles on the car now ;)

As far as shifting preferences go, when I run it hard I usually rev up to about 2K and release the clutch slow while feathering the throttle to keep the wheel spin in check. If I do it just right I will chirp the tires but not spin them once I upshift. Then at just below 6K, I'll flat shift to 3rd which will also chirp the tires but not spin them. Then flat shift 4th and 5th.

What really sucks is when DSC is on and you chirp the tires in 2nd or 3rd. More times than not, the damn thing goes limp on me thinking I'm spinning the tires. I really wish I could change the DSC so that its normally off and I have to manually switch it on. It actually does a decent job in the twistys though.

[fourthmeal]

I have developed a routine so ingrained in my brain that I forgot about it until you mentioned it. Every time I start the car, I tap that button and then shift into gear. I don't like electronics governing how I drive in normal conditions. I leave it on in the rain though (thats like 4 days of the year.)

[camrycev6]

Uh? I would really check back with that "tech". Even if you don't have any issues they're supposed to change the bolt. The new bolt is stronger and have some kind of safety washer.

They did change the bolt...but he said I really didn't need it done. He said the bolt is the same as the old one.