Autocross and MS3

[Kosh]

This saturday I am going to autocross my baby for the first time. Looking for any information that can help me on my first set of runs. All I have done to my car is cold air and awr rear mount. I am using autocross as an excuse to stop modding my car for a bit because I want to get some good time in to get used to the car and how it handels around the course.

Anyone know what tire pressure I should run? I know I should add some air so I don't roll over on the sidewalls.

Advice, stories, pictures and video are all welcome (first)

[GoFast]

assuming you have the stock tires, about 32-34psi. use the cars suspension and throttle lift to bring the back end around a bit. run a bit slower in and faster out with the MS3. pick a gear and stick to the one. The car has plenty of power to run most auto-x courses in 2nd. hope this helps!

[dolphin]

Walk the course! Walk the course! Walk the course! No matter how good the car is if you don't know where you are going you will not do well. :) Ask for help. One of the other people will probably help you. Just try to do clean runs and beat yourself every run.

I don't have a MS3 I have the older MSP but I started with the air in the high 30's and came down. I did this since it is easier to let air out of the tires than to put it in.

If you do a search there is a ton of stuff on autocrossing various cars.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123645200

[Kosh]

half of those posts are from the people who talked me into auto-x in the first place :)

[Kosh]

Does anyone here auto-x their mazdaspeed 3 or mazda 3? I was expecting a better response here :(

[GoFast]

i auto-x my speed3

[tsunami]

just moved to suspension specific forum hopefully that will create some more interest...

i have auto xed my reg3...

as some one else said just get it into second and leave it there i had enough power for whatever i wanted and lived above 3k most of the time so it was quikly back on again...

also remember the throttle isn't a on/off switch that was/is one of my bigger problems i keep wanting to just mash the petal when i clear the apex instead of getting back on the gas slowly as you straighten the wheel...

[GoFast]

also remember the throttle isn't a on/off switch that was/is one of my bigger problems i keep wanting to just mash the petal when i clear the apex instead of getting back on the gas slowly as you straighten the wheel...

exactly, accelerate through the turn and modulate the gas pedal. not on/off it

[major error]

If this is your fist time autocrossing, you're already starting with a handicap (of sorts) because of the mods. Either of them alone are class-changers: looks like you'll be in STS instead of DS. See http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123615560 for more info on classing allowances...
I only mention this because it may put you in direct competition with better-prepared cars/drivers. (there's a first-timer in our group that runs an '88 Mustang GT in SM who finishes consistently at/near last place.)

This is my first year, and this is what I've figured out so far with my MZ3:
OE tires are merely ok. Not sure what the MS3 comes with, but the MZ3's Goodyear RS-As only do passably-well on clean, dry surfaces--they break/push easily, moreso on dusty/pebble-strewn lots. Good for trashing as a learning experience, but find a high performance street tire or some race tires for the future. I try to maintain hot front/rear pressure of 43/40. (there are small arrows along the sidewalls of the RS-As near the bed of the tread blocks--that's the point of reference I use for adding/releasing pressure.)

Stock brake pads are good enough for autoX, but I'd imagine a good set of Hawk HP+ on the rear instead might work pretty well at reducing weight transfer, and you could keep your speed up longer...

Not sure what to say about the suspension/alignment. Great as a DD, but dives and pushes like nobody's business in autoX...

[Kosh]

Stock brakes on mazdaspeed are pretty massive. I hear the tires are good as well but heat up quick. I love the cai too much as a DD accessory to go back to the stock airbox. Same with the motor mount.

I registered in STU which I think was the right class. I'll find out tomorrow :)

I need to get used to driving in second gear. I usully keep it in first a bit long and go straight to third when road driving. First and second just seem too short and the boost seems to overpower the gear even when trying to go easy. But I guess you don't auto-x to save gas :)

[GoFast]

Stock brakes on mazdaspeed are pretty massive. I hear the tires are good as well but heat up quick. I love the cai too much as a DD accessory to go back to the stock airbox. Same with the motor mount.

I registered in STU which I think was the right class. I'll find out tomorrow :)

I need to get used to driving in second gear. I usully keep it in first a bit long and go straight to third when road driving. First and second just seem too short and the boost seems to overpower the gear even when trying to go easy. But I guess you don't auto-x to save gas :)


if all you have is a CAI then yes you are in the right class

[Rainman]

I auto-crossed my MSP for the first time last year and loved it. Did fairly well for a novice placing reasonably against more experienced drivers. I have yet to auto-cross the MS3 or the MS6 though. I probably will auto-cross the MS3 this summer.

IMHO, the handling of the MS3 is not quite as strong as that of the MSP (I had lowered mine with Eibach Pro Kit springs), but I have yet to bear this suspicion out on a course. However, I suspect that the power of MS3 will make up for the handling disadvantage inbetween transitions.

R

[Kosh]

I auto-crossed my MSP for the first time last year and loved it. Did fairly well for a novice placing reasonably against more experienced drivers. I have yet to auto-cross the MS3 or the MS6 though. I probably will auto-cross the MS3 this summer.

IMHO, the handling of the MS3 is not quite as strong as that of the MSP (I had lowered mine with Eibach Pro Kit springs), but I have yet to bear this suspicion out on a course. However, I suspect that the power of MS3 will make up for the handling disadvantage inbetween transitions.

R

I'm really interested in seeing how it handels. I think a lot of people are a little too HP crazy around here. I'm interested in keeping this thing on the road or track or wherever. I think it is a lot more fun to go screaming around a turn than going in a strait line.

I have stuck in my head 'this is a hatch back, heavy up top so slow down for corners' I'm scared to see what it can really do when put up to it. My friends tell me if you are going to spin out of control then auto-x is the place to do it.

[samc86]

tires will make all the difference. i'm not running scca so i don;t know the rules, but if you are serious, find out how far you can go with tires. i got some old supra wheels to fit the ms3, and put khumo 710's on them. the only other mod i have is cai, and it is like a different car. so if you are serious, research what you can do size / compound wise, and worry about suspension / brakes after that.

of course, this comes after what has already been said - walk the course, learn how to drive, etc. i made the mistake with my corvette and modded it before i ever knew what autocross was. when i consistently ran slower in my 400+ hp monster than good drivers in stock ~300hp cars i knew it was me and not the car.

remember - "drag racing is for fast cars, autocross is for fast drivers"

and it's fun to prove that when i turn faster times in my ms3 than most of the vettes and mustangs at our practice days!

oh - and one other thing - especially if it is a more wide open course - these cars make lots of torque at lower RPMs than you think - you will turn faster times if you are in the power band, and not trying to hit the rev limiter! look at some of the dyno charts to get an idea - over 5k you are wasting time without some serious mods.

ok, two things - DSC off! the ms3 isn't so bad, but i forgot to turn it off in the z06 last autocross and i thought we were having engine problems!

[Kosh]

tires will make all the difference. i'm not running scca so i don;t know the rules, but if you are serious, find out how far you can go with tires. i got some old supra wheels to fit the ms3, and put khumo 710's on them. the only other mod i have is cai, and it is like a different car. so if you are serious, research what you can do size / compound wise, and worry about suspension / brakes after that.

of course, this comes after what has already been said - walk the course, learn how to drive, etc. i made the mistake with my corvette and modded it before i ever knew what autocross was. when i consistently ran slower in my 400+ hp monster than good drivers in stock ~300hp cars i knew it was me and not the car.

remember - "drag racing is for fast cars, autocross is for fast drivers"

and it's fun to prove that when i turn faster times in my ms3 than most of the vettes and mustangs at our practice days!

oh - and one other thing - especially if it is a more wide open course - these cars make lots of torque at lower RPMs than you think - you will turn faster times if you are in the power band, and not trying to hit the rev limiter! look at some of the dyno charts to get an idea - over 5k you are wasting time without some serious mods.

ok, two things - DSC off! the ms3 isn't so bad, but i forgot to turn it off in the z06 last autocross and i thought we were having engine problems!

I know what you are saying about shifting around 5-5.5k. I see a lot of people going red line thinking they are using the engine to the full potential but those dyno sheets don't lie. I even turn DSC off when daily driving so I will certainly turn it off for auto-x. You forgot to mention make sure the A/C is off as well (burnout)

[udontknowjack]

have u try both dsc/traction control off?? unbelieveable !!(yippy)

[Kosh]

First auto-x was great! Every run I improved by about 4 seconds. First run I DNF'd at around the second cone :) We got there really late and had to register after everyone had done their walkthroughs so I had no idea where I was going. Myt first time was 63 seconds or something like that, top in my calss was pulling down low 40's :(

By the forth run I got 49 something and was just happy to break 50 my first time out. I wasn't expecting any great times but at least I improved every run. Can't wait for the next auto-x (burnout)

[Rainman]

First auto-x was great! Every run I improved by about 4 seconds. First run I DNF'd at around the second cone :) We got there really late and had to register after everyone had done their walkthroughs so I had no idea where I was going. Myt first time was 63 seconds or something like that, top in my calss was pulling down low 40's :(

By the forth run I got 49 something and was just happy to break 50 my first time out. I wasn't expecting any great times but at least I improved every run. Can't wait for the next auto-x (burnout)

Great work. Glad that you enjoyed yourself so much. Make sure that you learn your cars characteristics on the stock tires first cause once you switch to better tires it is harder to learn the limits of your cars suspension settings.

R

[Kosh]

Here is the results. First place in STU! Only one running in STU but it is still a win (burnout)

http://soloatlanta.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=612

[tsunami]

Here is the results. First place in STU! Only one running in STU but it is still a win (burnout)

http://soloatlanta.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=612


ROFL a win is a win though nice work

[mcb]

Its my 2nd season of auto-x and now that i have a good car to do it i enjoy it more every run. (i had a n/a heavly modded sunfire GT (hand) wich was doing very bad at auto-x)

1st thing, i would run stock if i was you... those little beast are well prepared against the standard competitors. Most of the top ranked stock car are: integra (type r or GSR) MSP and Mini. For large/fast track you gonna hand them their a$s if you know how to use the car.

2nd thing TIRES... Stockers are good but to perform in auto-x you will need something little more sticky/wide. I use 225/40 Hoosier A6, wich is prolly the best auto-x tire out there, but to run R compound tire you need to be in Stock or in Modified. If your in STU you gonna need to stick with street tire (140 tradeware minimum if i remember). You could use semi-race tire like Falken azenis.

3rd the best mod to do is behind the steering... Take the time to walk the track. I usually walk 3-4 time just to be sure i know where i go. Yes we have great cars but learning how to drive it at is max is not gonna take only 5 runs...

4th HAVE FUN!! Dont rush yourself for the first rank. I saw many newcomer with great cars and cry because a car with half of their power/mods smoke them by 5 sec or more on a 60 second track. There are some very good driver out there... Watch them, talk to them, learn from them.


Good Luck!

[Kosh]

I could go back to the old airbox but I don't think I could drive with the old rear mount. I don't want to have to get in there and swap out mounts before each event. I'm starting half way through the season so I'll use the rest of the events to get used to navigating and learning what the limits of the car are. I think I can do well if I stay in STU and will compare my times with what DS and DSP are running.

Right now it is all about fun and learning. I'll keep asking for ride alongs and next year will take novice classes when I have a few events under my belt.

Next event I am borrowing wheels from another forum member and will see how I like them before purchasing some of my own.

I just wish there was some place I could go to practice between events. I don't think the police would be very happy if I practice slalom between the white lines on the highway(stooges)

[blacksheepms3]

I could go back to the old airbox but I don't think I could drive with the old rear mount. I don't want to have to get in there and swap out mounts before each event. I'm starting half way through the season so I'll use the rest of the events to get used to navigating and learning what the limits of the car are. I think I can do well if I stay in STU and will compare my times with what DS and DSP are running.

Right now it is all about fun and learning. I'll keep asking for ride alongs and next year will take novice classes when I have a few events under my belt.

Next event I am borrowing wheels from another forum member and will see how I like them before purchasing some of my own.

I just wish there was some place I could go to practice between events. I don't think the police would be very happy if I practice slalom between the white lines on the highway(stooges)

I got an aftermarket motor mount for ms3, i think it's better having it on the autox than the stock, you wont have wheel hop. I autozed last april for the first time and havent gone back yet. all i had was cai. i beat a porshe, a wrx and a legacy. Maybe it was their first time too, but so it was for me. My first run i plowed through turns though i never hit a cone. Then I asked for a ride-along and the guy told me that whenever u are trying to turn and ur car is not responding it's because it's understeering so he told me to "do less of everything" that means give less gas and return your steering to a lesser angle and your car should recover. He stayed in for the next run and saw improvements. It felt like i was goin slower but the clock dont lie i did the course in less time. From then on I talked to other drivers and they gave me tips like "slow in, fast out" and "modulate your gas" maintain power through turns, "take the apex", stay on 2nd gear cause when u shift down to 1st it's not even worth it. So yeah, I had fun with my ms3

[Kosh]

It is more about driver ability than car power. That is what I like about it. If I stay in STU and get good at running the courses I think I should do quite well against cars with more mods in my class. This season is all about learning and practice. Next season I will be more serious about time and points.

[mcb]

Thats the way to go ! (cool)

btw i dont think your motor mount put you out of stock... but not sure tough.

[brian8599]

First, hello folks!

4 days ago, I took delivery of a black MS3GT. Overall, I'm very happy with my purchase. I do have some gripes but I realize nothing is perfect, especially for the $. 3rd gear is an absolute blast. I need to wash all the brake dust off my front wheels. :)

In a former life, I used to autocross a stock '99 Miata Sport (and a '95 R-pkg before that) with NER. I've been absent from auto-x for 4+ years but will be returning once my car breaks-in. I'm anticipating a serious challenge autocrossing a FWD turbo car. The Miata was very easy to autocross. (I wasn't all that fast)

Forgive my ignorance. What are the SCCA classes for an MS3? From what I gathered from the posts, DS for a stock car, STU for a slightly modified car on street tires, STS for more modifications on street tires.. What is the class for an MS3 with race rubber, a CAI and a rear engine mount?

What are the permitted mods in STU? STS?

-Brian

[dolphin]

Here is a link to the site you can use to download the Solo rulebook.
http://www.scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/2007SoloRules.pdf

The MS3 like the MSP is not allowed in STS. It has both a turbo and a non-viscous type limited slip.

[xelderx]

MS3 = D Stock, STU, DSP, Street Modified

[blacksheepms3]

Thats the way to go ! (cool)

btw i dont think your motor mount put you out of stock... but not sure tough.

they probably wouldnt know i got a motor mount. they dont go under the car to check. Any changes in power and susp[ension i'd let them know base on honor system. Otherwise I'll b cheatin myself.

[Kosh]

Just finished my second auto-x in the ms3. Lot lore fun today than last month. Felt more comfortable opening the throtle more around turns. Found out how much fun it is running no traction control and actually spun the car around. Really want to find some tires and wheels just for running auto-x. Next event in a week (burnout)

[dolphin]

I think that autocrossing has gotten another addict.

[drledford93]

I had my first autox in my MS3 today. I haven't autoxed in nearly 8 years (was REALLY into it back in the late 90's with my dsm awd...)

However, I went with a bone-stock MS3 and came within 0.2 sec of beating heavily modded Subies which were running many, many more horsepower than I was...(nana)

However, this thing pushes like a pig! I was surprised to say the least. Not much off-throttle oversteer to speak of. (Of course, this is without an alignment. 1/16" toe out in the rear will help cure both...) This car does slalom very well, especially in third! I am pleased at that. Take that, subie fans...(spank)

I think things will turn out much differently once I get some lighter-weight wheels and a CAI...(nana)

Daniel

[Kosh]

Is pushes like a pig a bad thing? The problem with this car is it has too much power :confused: There was a hairpin turn in the middle and I just wanted to stay on the throtle for half the turn and the car pretty much hopped sideways until it straitened out. Freaking awesome! I have some video of me and Velocifero getting in a couple runs in my car I will try to upload tonight.

[TinmanMS6]

By "push" he means understeer, and yes, that's a bad thing, but I think you got a taste of the off-throttle oversteer he's missing yesterday when you spun it.

[TheTam]

Congrats Kosh! You have really got me interested in auto-x now and I am going to try and attend a few events this year to see if it's for me. If so, maybe next year I'll head down to Hotlanta and give you a little competition in class. (nana)

[drledford93]

Yes, Tinman, that's what I mean. I could not get the rear to step out at all. Of course, I did not adjust my tire pressures, as I just wanted to see what it could do. My pressures were set at 36 f/r. This morning, I set them to 34/43to try and get the thing a bit more loose...

The car still slalomed like a madman, though...(spin)

[TinmanMS6]

Yeah, it was a lot of fun to ride in. I can't wait to see what it does with some RT-615s or RE01-Rs on it. The stock tires seem to complain a lot.

[Kosh]

The turn on the back of the course where the outfield was located was a great turn. googlemap (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=33.739579,+-84.389226&ie=UTF8&ll=33.739472,-84.389449&spn=0.001481,0.002908&t=k&z=19&om=1) The car has way too much power for that turn. Need to learn to really feather the throtle until the car gets turned around to keep the sideways hop and wheel spin under control. I could see how better tires would help grab that corner. I agree with the tires. Seemed to have the loudest tires in class.

Holy crap I'm so happy we have another event next weekend (cabpatch)