GHL TB vs Vibrant TB

[carbonkid]

If money was not a deciding factor, which would you get? Both are 3", GHL just has the "s" pipe, really worth nearly $400 difference?

Performance gains of one vs. the other?

[Boosted03MSP]

Vibrant FTW ! The little S pipe isnt going to make huge gains that warrant a $400 increase in price. Shit if you want the S pipe, just go to corksport and get it. It would still be a savings over the GHL. Plus i like the exhaust look of the Vibrant better than the GHL. The GHL almos tlooks stock. I gues thats good if you want more of a sleeper look.

[peajay]

I think the ghl has a little deeper sound, i like how it sits on the car better and the downpipe (s pipe) is a very restrictive part of the exhaust system so if you are going to do the exhaust for anything other than sound you really should replace it too. it is a bit cumbersome but its worth it!
Im finishing up the ghl on my car today and should be getting tuned within 2 weeks and i will have actualy performance gain numbers then (yes)
-as a little note i measured the inside diameter of the stocker.......1 3/4 in. wide (boom06) haha.

[Pirana]

There has been plenty of discussion between both exhausts....both are really good, both got advantages over each other. IMO, the Vibrant is a higher quality system. They are robotic TIG welded and their bends, welds, termination is top-notch. They do have a catalytic converter included...dont know if the GHL has a straight pipe...I know they used to sell it with both the straight pipe and catted pipe. My beef with the GHL is the way it connects...using bands. According to HiBoostTS (maker of turbo kits for Proteges) he said there is no reason to make an "S" pipe since ours was pretty good already and strong. Remember it is an aftermarket piece no matter what. It isnt a full 3" but for the flow of our small turbos, it doesnt need to be. The gains doenst justify the price. If you still desire an "S" pipe, then use the Corksport which it can be purchased around $150 new or around $75 used...remember you also need the AWR mounts if you use aftermarket "S" pipes or they will crack.

[carbonkid]

Leaning toward the vibrant, thanks everyone.

[dirtysouth_msp]

Vibrant is a better deal for the price. The GHL downpipe is pimp as hell, but it makes the exhaust a bitch to remove and install because the s, j and cat sections are all 1 piece. Also, I've never been a fan of the band clamp style connections.

Piranha, any success getting vibrant to make any more catless downpipes? I'd be interested if one was somehow available.

[khaosman]

Man I can't remember where I read it, but it said slip-fit exhausts are the least leaky of connections.

The GHL isn't too bad to install/remove if you take out the radiator and fans, or at least the fans. The S/J pipe has the flex joint in it, and is one piece that mounts up to turbo . Then a short slip fit piece goes on that with a cat in it, stopping at the first hangers. After that is a long mid-pipe with a resonator. Then three pieces including the muffler (phew).

I haven't got my catback portion yet, as I just ordered it last week. I'll have to have it modified to fit my P5, but I'll post pics and sounds after I do. Right now I'm running downpipe out and it is loud as hell. Sweet though :D

Here are a few pictures of the exhaust: http://www.khaosman.com/gallery/turbo3?page=2
(more in there if you look around the turbo folder)

[dirtysouth_msp]

Man I can't remember where I read it, but it said slip-fit exhausts are the least leaky of connections.

The GHL isn't too bad to install/remove if you take out the radiator and fans, or at least the fans. The S/J pipe has the flex joint in it, and is one piece that mounts up to turbo . Then a short slip fit piece goes on that with a cat in it, stopping at the first hangers. After that is a long mid-pipe with a resonator. Then three pieces including the muffler (phew).

I haven't got my catback portion yet, as I just ordered it last week. I'll have to have it modified to fit my P5, but I'll post pics and sounds after I do. Right now I'm running downpipe out and it is loud as hell. Sweet though :D

Here are a few pictures of the exhaust: http://www.khaosman.com/gallery/turbo3?page=2
(more in there if you look around the turbo folder)

Well, there are no gaskets with the slip fit, so if you can get them to seal 100% they should not ever develop leaks. However, if you have to remove and install the pipes a few times, the pipes themselves can get kind of mangled and can make it hard to seal. Gaskets are cheap and easy to replace.

[kamon8404]

I would definitely go with the vibrant if you aren't too entirely hell bent on getting a new down pipe. The quality of the vibrant is amazing, and it already have a flex pipe welded in. More over, the sold piece bolt up design is a lot better in my opinion than clamps. In addition to the fact you can always PnP your s pipe for pretty cheap. Just my opinion though ....

[terbow]

vibrant. ive owned them both.

[Drumfreak]

The GHL dp is not just a little s-pipe as compared to the corksport piece. Let this pic help my point and opinion:



http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e31/Drumfreak3444/DSC00378.jpg

It's too bad the GHL system is so much money but its worth every penny IMO. I get tons of compliments when I get oil changes from techs and friends. The sound is lovely too. There might not be a huge peak hp difference if you were too dyno-compare the two systems but with the GHL you will get on boost quicker.
I like the idea and sound of both systems but I have to defend the GHL when people say there isnt much difference.

[terbow]

i personally didint like the ghl tip how you can see the neck before the tip. The quality of the ghl doesnt compare to the vibrant, especially in the welds and the "muffler" , if you want to call it that. if theres even the smallest bend in the pipe entrance (ie, it happends in shipping), the slip on connections dont work. they also slip out over time. mine over the axel slipped out daily, GHL's answer was to weld it. mines not an isolated case either. quality to quality, theres no comparison. The boost onset really is negligable cause i couldnt feel it on the butt dyno so any gains prolly are minimal. also the ghls resonator is about 2.5" unless otherwise specified so its not really 3".

[Rush]

I know one of them has a bottleneck in the system. Do a search.

And go custom. It's the best way to get exactly what you want.

[MSP 2731]

I was in the same boat not to long ago trying to decide between the two. I ended up buying terbows Vibrant and couldn't be happier. I like the tip on the Vibrant better than the GHL. And from all that I read the difference in HP was very minimal and didn't justify $400 more. If I remember correctly the GHL was around 28 HP increase, the Vibrant was around 20 HP and the Vibrant with the CS "S" pipe was around 27 HP. And if you went that route it would still be less than the GHL. I have been warned several times though that you must have the upgraded motor mounts or the CS "S" pipe will crack. Some people have even reported them cracking with the mounts but they have also said that CS was very good about replacing them. Another route that was also suggested to me was to send my stock "S" pipe to Extrude Hone http://www.gethoned.com/auto.php and for somewhere in the neighborhood of $180 it would come back pnp and very flowing.

[Drumfreak]

i personally didint like the ghl tip how you can see the neck before the tip. The quality of the ghl doesnt compare to the vibrant, especially in the welds and the "muffler" , if you want to call it that. if theres even the smallest bend in the pipe entrance (ie, it happends in shipping), the slip on connections dont work. they also slip out over time. mine over the axel slipped out daily, GHL's answer was to weld it. mines not an isolated case either. quality to quality, theres no comparison. The boost onset really is negligable cause i couldnt feel it on the butt dyno so any gains prolly are minimal. also the ghls resonator is about 2.5" unless otherwise specified so its not really 3".
Did you dyno with both systems for a comparison? If you still had the GHL would you have a different opinion? If I had the vibrant I would probably be loving the vibrant and hating the GHL. Its funny how that works. LOL. I've only had the system slip once and had a little leak but its fixed and been fine for a long time.

[terbow]

actually i dont have either of them so no my opinion wouldnt change :)

im jsut stating my experience with both. i didnt even get into how my ghl broke 5 times. both companies have excellent customer service i would like to add.

i didnt dyno them, but both had a difference over stock, i had a boost gauge so i could tell if the onset of boost was quicker or not. and it was
negligable (sp). Besides im confident the vibrant would yield better gains due to ghls resonator being 2.5" thats a 1/2" step down half way into your exhaust.

[Drumfreak]

actually i dont have either of them so no my opinion wouldnt change :)

im jsut stating my experience with both. i didnt even get into how my ghl broke 5 times. both companies have excellent customer service i would like to add.

i didnt dyno them, but both had a difference over stock, i had a boost gauge so i could tell if the onset of boost was quicker or not. and it was
negligable (sp). Besides im confident the vibrant would yield better gains due to ghls resonator being 2.5" thats a 1/2" step down half way into your exhaust.
I didnt know the GHL was 2.5 where the resonator was. Thats pretty lame. I just dont agree the vibrant would produce better gains while still using the stock s-pipe. I would agree however if a different s-pipe was installed with the system. There has got to be some dyno evidence somewhere.

[LinuxRacr]

Wait, does that GHL actually a divoced downpipe?

[03.5MSP]

Keep in mind the Vibrant is a 2.5 at the s-pipe and then turns into a 3in. And Im not sure if you guys remmember but Rich gained 14whp when he sintalled the MAM 3in s-pipe, but he was running a gt28rs.

[terbow]

Wait, does that GHL actually a divoced downpipe?

yes ghl is divorced

[terbow]

I didnt know the GHL was 2.5 where the resonator was. Thats pretty lame. I just dont agree the vibrant would produce better gains while still using the stock s-pipe. I would agree however if a different s-pipe was installed with the system. There has got to be some dyno evidence somewhere.

i understand, if u get rid of the resonator then ok id agree. but by having a bottleneck your effectivly making the exhaust 2.5". plus no ones done any testing on divided vs non divided s pipes. so maybe having a ported or corksport s pipe actually would yield better gains since its just an open space for it to flow whereas the divided one has 2 smaller paths (i doubt the turbulence on a t25 internal gate warrants a split pipe)(as you stated).

i was just giving my unbiased opinion on the experience i had with both. they are both the best solutions we have for 3" packages. I would certainly like to see a 3" downpipe thats not divided going to the vibrant as i feel that would be the best but its probably not worth the time.

[terbow]

Keep in mind the Vibrant is a 2.5 at the s-pipe and then turns into a 3in. And Im not sure if you guys remmember but Rich gained 14whp when he sintalled the MAM 3in s-pipe, but he was running a gt28rs.

right. bigger is always better there, but we dont have any true 3" open downpipes. thats where the biggest gain is. the ghl is divided so its not going to flow like the mam one.

anything is better than stock however.

[terbow]

I didnt know the GHL was 2.5 where the resonator was. Thats pretty lame.

i actually have a pic of it. ill see if i can dig it up. problem is, if you remove it, its really loud. and if u have to get ur own 3" one, then its even more cost.

[MSP608]

whats wrong with your current exhaust setup John? looking for a 3"? i say go vibrant. other than getting it to fit up with the stock s pipe i have had zero problems. dont think its been mentioned yet but the o2 doesnt have to be extended you can just reroute it and it will reach just fine.

i could help you with install if youre coming back to cville.

[alexB]

I currently have the full GHL 3'' TB exhaust. I love it but I will admit that it was very expensive. No doubt. After installing this myself I will say that I feel like the stock s pipe/downpipe looks to be the MOST restrictive part on the MSP exhaust. If I was to do this again I would take a different route. Maybe the GHL down pipe setup($600ish) into a like a QTP electronic cutout. And maybe a diiferent muffler or exhaust tip if you are worried about the looks part.

When I wanted performance open up the cutout. The muffler would give it the whole aftermarket look. Also with the down pipe and muffler the sound would be different all the time but still bareable. Not too loud.

[yashooa]

You will have to pry my GHL from my cold, dead hands :)
I think the GHL is of the utmost quality as well as the Vibrant.
I really like the downpipe and now that I am going forged with 20PSI I will be very glad to have it.
The stock S-pipe is a restrictive P.O.S. IMO :)
http://www.msprotege.com/members/yashooa/trans%20085.jpg

[Pirana]

Guys, even thought the GHL does have a divorced wastegate runner...its not a true unrestricted downpipe. I would like to see a good picture of the bellmouth. That looks like a very small pipe going into the turbo exit. Unless you are running in excess of 18psi there wont be much difference between the MSP and the GHL pipe. Juan at Hiboost proved it. He didnt see any gains when he build the prototype. So he scratched the idea. If you are running a bigger turbo and lots of boost, then yes a divorced runner would be beneficial. Not in our OEM application.

[carbonkid]

Wow, all great input. I am glad I asked.

Sounds like they are both great solutions, and it just comes down to individual preference for hardware/looks, as the performance differences are negligible (< 5hp). IF we are talking the use of 'band/360* clamps' for the GHL, then I had horrible luck with band clamps on my old SVT Contour SHO-SHOP exhaust (*flashback*) and will probably go Vibrant.

MSP608,
Yeah bro, I just want to try something different. Thanks for the labor offer, and I will be back to C'Ville towards the fall. Anyway, I paid off the car while here, and am allowing myself a little bit of "MSP play money" since a few $K is still a LOT cheaper than a new 335i. LOL! Plus, I am totally still in LOVE with my MSP, 4 years later...(if only I could meet a woman where I say the same thing) *sigh*

Anyway, I am thinking:
-Vibrant/Corksport S (based so far on what I have read here)
-SMIC/hardpipe upgrade from OEM
-EBC slotted/drilled/Yellows at all 4
-opened up IM
-Unichip

Drumfreak:
Maybe I can go for a ride in yours when I get back to MN...I am sure I will like the GHL too.

[Pirana]

Looks like you will be running a pretty good set up there...I might suggest (unless you already have one) a good boost controller...HKS, Greddy, Blitz, etc...

[Drumfreak]

Sounds good man. Too bad I'm going back to stock boost and selling my ebc so my car wont be quite as quick. Let me know. I would be willing to make some time and meet up.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Dynograph2.jpg


This was differences before and after the Corksport S-pipe and Crank Pulley. The light green and dark green are horsepower numbers, use the #'s on the right. Dark blue and light blue are stock boost level changes, use the #'s on the left.

I don't know how much the pulley had to contribute but you can see even at stock boost levels, they were flowing more. Don't concentrate on peak horsepower, look at what it did through out the powerband, you could only imagine with more boost, im sure it will make a huger difference on peak horsepower...

[kamon8404]

Thats a definite improvement.

[carbonkid]

Indeed...

Drumfreak, can you email me pics of your EBC? thx

[sandspeed]

I have never seen a vibrant but I know from reading around here it is a great exhaust system. I do have a ghl full downpipe on the car and love it. I would get the vibrant if you don't plan on heavily modding your speed.

[Drumfreak]

Indeed...

Drumfreak, can you email me pics of your EBC? thx
PM me your email and I will see what I can do.