2.3 cyl engine question cx7 & ms 6

[Int3grity]

I noticed some of the parts that are available for the mazda 6 isn't the cx-7 running the same engine?

If so looking at the HP+ gain on the 6th with all these performance parts how come these arent not currently available for the 7 looks promising that the engine can displace so much more horsepower and torque.
I am actually beginning to think that this engine is severely underated but my question is why doesnt mazda push this engine higher

[erhayes]

I think we realize that the torque & Hp are generated at a much lower RPM. The lower RPM allows better acceleration with the heaver vehicle. If we would put the 6 engine in the CX& the acceleration would be much worse.

[Int3grity]

but i thought the car already has the 6 engine in it

My next ride 08 evo ;-)

[mikey1981]

but i thought the car already has the 6 engine in it

My next ride 08 evo ;-)

it does, it is just retooled for the 7. U cant have your cake and eat it too so to speak. In order to compensate for the 4,000 lbs of the truck, the engine's power band really had to be moved in order for it to accelerate and provide the low end thrust that we all enjoy. In doing so, the higher speed power that we also seem to be looking for and expecting isnt quite there. I think the trade off is fine, for this truck...but thats where aftermarket comes in.

[Spoolinup]

it does, it is just retooled for the 7. U cant have your cake and eat it too so to speak. In order to compensate for the 4,000 lbs of the truck, the engine's power band really had to be moved in order for it to accelerate and provide the low end thrust that we all enjoy. In doing so, the higher speed power that we also seem to be looking for and expecting isnt quite there. I think the trade off is fine, for this truck...but thats where aftermarket comes in.


True. A properly sized and matched aftermarket turbo would surely accomodate for the best of both worlds...quick spooling for low end and lots of top end power to boot, such as a hybrid turbo. BTW, what size turbo is on the CX-7 now? Similiar in size to the T3's that were on the 84-86 Thunderbird turbocoupes, as they were 2.3's as well, or way different?

[Int3grity]

True. A properly sized and matched aftermarket turbo would surely accomodate for the best of both worlds...quick spooling for low end and lots of top end power to boot, such as a hybrid turbo. BTW, what size turbo is on the CX-7 now? Similiar in size to the T3's that were on the 84-86 Thunderbird turbocoupes, as they were 2.3's as well, or way different?

So you think we can add a bigger turbo?

[frasdl]

So you think we can add a bigger turbo?

You can always add a bigger turbo. The better question would be would you really want to?

There are all sort of things that occur when you go that route. More heat = need for more cooling. More torque/hp = tranny strain. More speed = need for better suspension and better brakes. You'll need a professional tune, etc, etc. Most likely it will shorten your motor/vehicle life and kill the value of the car due to marketability.

Seriously though and this is just my opinion, but I'm having a hard time seeing this a a vehicle to go mod crazy on. I know the potential is there with any turbo vehicle and maybe folks are encouraged by Mazda's links to modded out cx7's on the factory site. But I have to be honest, if I were to see a cx with a fart can and a BOV I'd be 1st in line to laugh at you. It's not like you can autox or do a track day with the cx7. I guess you could, but why. If you wanted a sports car, why get this vehicle? It's not like the market is limited with choices. And I'm guessing you don't want the bigger turbo to have more towing power.

Just my 2 cents.

[erhayes]

You can always add a bigger turbo. The better question would be would you really want to?

There are all sort of things that occur when you go that route. More heat = need for more cooling. More torque/hp = tranny strain. More speed = need for better suspension and better brakes. You'll need a professional tune, etc, etc. Most likely it will shorten your motor/vehicle life and kill the value of the car due to marketability.

Seriously though and this is just my opinion, but I'm having a hard time seeing this a a vehicle to go mod crazy on. I know the potential is there with any turbo vehicle and maybe folks are encouraged by Mazda's links to modded out cx7's on the factory site. But I have to be honest, if I were to see a cx with a fart can and a BOV I'd be 1st in line to laugh at you. It's not like you can autox or do a track day with the cx7. I guess you could, but why. If you wanted a sports car, why get this vehicle? It's not like the market is limited with choices. And I'm guessing you don't want the bigger turbo to have more towing power.

Just my 2 cents.

Bigger turbos take longer to spool up and hense less power down low which is not good.

[AWmustang]

but i thought the car already has the 6 engine in it

My next ride 08 evo ;-)

We have the same engine, but the turbo is completely different. Thus the power being available sooner, but getting less total power.

[SuperStretch18]

You can always add a bigger turbo. The better question would be would you really want to?

There are all sort of things that occur when you go that route. More heat = need for more cooling. More torque/hp = tranny strain. More speed = need for better suspension and better brakes. You'll need a professional tune, etc, etc. Most likely it will shorten your motor/vehicle life and kill the value of the car due to marketability.

Seriously though and this is just my opinion, but I'm having a hard time seeing this a a vehicle to go mod crazy on. I know the potential is there with any turbo vehicle and maybe folks are encouraged by Mazda's links to modded out cx7's on the factory site. But I have to be honest, if I were to see a cx with a fart can and a BOV I'd be 1st in line to laugh at you. It's not like you can autox or do a track day with the cx7. I guess you could, but why. If you wanted a sports car, why get this vehicle? It's not like the market is limited with choices. And I'm guessing you don't want the bigger turbo to have more towing power.

Just my 2 cents.

Agreed that a larger turbo is not really a good option for this ride. Transmission and transfer case would probably be the weakest links if you decide to go big hp.

Also agreed that this is not the car to rice out (fart can ftl)... BUT, don't knock on people who want to mod their car. There is nothing wrong with wanting to get the most out of your ride (looks, performance or otherwise). Personally, I would have preferred to buy an Elise, but there are many reasons why that isn't an option for everyone.

[frasdl]

Also agreed that this is not the car to rice out (fart can ftl)... BUT, don't knock on people who want to mod their car. There is nothing wrong with wanting to get the most out of your ride (looks, performance or otherwise). Personally, I would have preferred to buy an Elise, but there are many reasons why that isn't an option for everyone.

I agree with you and don't mean to sound like I'm against modding. I guess I just consider a turbo swap to be the beginning of a lot of mods. More than I would consider for this type of vehicle. Moding is definately a fun way to get more out of your car, and everyone has a different comfort level with how far they go.

[SuperStretch18]

I agree with you and don't mean to sound like I'm against modding. I guess I just consider a turbo swap to be the beginning of a lot of mods. More than I would consider for this type of vehicle. Moding is definately a fun way to get more out of your car, and everyone has a different comfort level with how far they go.

Agreed, zoom-zoom-boom is never a good thing! (drinks)

[Int3grity]

I was just inquiring because hell they have the ms6 doing 375whp look at the forums guy is running 21psi :-) and we have same engine so you know im curious

[mikey1981]

yea i was too, but after seeing posters say the transfer case cant handle 100mph+, the leaks, the tranny goofballs - id rather leave this thing as is with possibly adding a chip thats about it. Also, after seeing what the winter can do to this car (the shutter valve probs that popped up, cel lights, warm up times) i just dont trust doing some patchwork mods w/factory parts that are already in the car, if i was going to mod this itd have to be a serious pro job.

[Int3grity]

yea i was too, but after seeing posters say the transfer case cant handle 100mph+, the leaks, the tranny goofballs - id rather leave this thing as is with possibly adding a chip thats about it. Also, after seeing what the winter can do to this car (the shutter valve probs that popped up, cel lights, warm up times) i just dont trust doing some patchwork mods w/factory parts that are already in the car, if i was going to mod this itd have to be a serious pro job.


Good Point maybe i will just throw the rims on it and call it a day

[spike blue]

agree with you mikey1981!! So what happen to your ride?? They fixed the problem you had???

[1Sleepy93]

The tranny is good for something like 400 or 450ft-lbs of torque so no weak link there. Not sure about the transfer case or diff but I don't have to worry about that since I'm FWD. Honestly though, there is nothing wrong with the transfer case if they had good seals on them. The seals are what go bad from my understanding of the problem.

I want a nice EMS, turbo upgrade, downpipe and catback. Not shooting for anything too crazy but a comfortable 300hp would be nice.

[mikey1981]

agree with you mikey1981!! So what happen to your ride?? They fixed the problem you had???

its running ok, BUT, now im having ignition problems. I turn the key, nothing is happening for a few seconds. my car is just cursed to be honest

[Spoolinup]

[QUOTE=frasdl]You can always add a bigger turbo. The better question would be would you really want to?

There are all sort of things that occur when you go that route. More heat = need for more cooling. More torque/hp = tranny strain. More speed = need for better suspension and better brakes. You'll need a professional tune, etc, etc. Most likely it will shorten your motor/vehicle life and kill the value of the car due to marketability.

QUOTE]

I see your point, but adding an extra 50-100 rwhp and torque is not going to cause the catastrophic outcome you speak of. I GUARANTEE the transmission, suspension, and brakes are WAY better than my 89 T70 mustang, and I have no problem with it at 500 rwhp/600 rwtq. I do, however, agree that cooling of the system would be necessary, but don't see that being a big issue, which may be because I built the T70 setup for my stang myself.

Oh, and hotrodding the CX7 would be a blast, in my opinion. How fun would it be to pull up to a light in a 4000lb grocery getter and put a beating on a newer GTO, or possibly a later model non-z06 vette? Haha, I would personally love it!(2thumbs)

But in retrospect, ANY more power you add to ANY engine lowers life expectancy of the vehicle, so all the "frowning" down on the modding of the CX-7 is totally understandable and expected.

Nick

[frasdl]

I see your point, but adding an extra 50-100 rwhp and torque is not going to cause the catastrophic outcome you speak of. I GUARANTEE the transmission, suspension, and brakes are WAY better than my 89 T70 mustang, and I have no problem with it at 500 rwhp/600 rwtq. I do, however, agree that cooling of the system would be necessary, but don't see that being a big issue, which may be because I built the T70 setup for my stang myself.

Oh, and hotrodding the CX7 would be a blast, in my opinion. How fun would it be to pull up to a light in a 4000lb grocery getter and put a beating on a newer GTO, or possibly a later model non-z06 vette? Haha, I would personally love it!(2thumbs)

But in retrospect, ANY more power you add to ANY engine lowers life expectancy of the vehicle, so all the "frowning" down on the modding of the CX-7 is totally understandable and expected.

Nick

That would be the ultimate stealth. Can't argue that. I never did speak of catastrophic outcome BTW. I was just pointing out a turbo swap is not necessaily a bolt on mod and forget it. Other addtional things would need to be considered. I'm not going to claim to know what the tranny can handle and therefore I never said it would break. We'll agree it will be stressed more, maybe it can handle it fine, maybe not as well as preferred. I also agree the brakes are pretty good. But if you mod to 300 plus, chances are your probably going to mod the breaks too, if nothing more than to see cross drilled rotors through the wheels. :)

Back to Int3grity's question though, I think the motor platform is a great place to mod, but the concerns come more with what it's bolted to. Mazdaspeed 6/3 go fast goodies will probably make the CX7 an in-between mod marketplace where a lot of those items will work, but purpose built aftermarket for the CX7 will be more limited since it is a SUV (although I don't really like to call the 7 one of those.) It will actually be interesting seeing how folks will leverage the motor.

[chuyler1]

I was just inquiring because hell they have the ms6 doing 375whp look at the forums guy is running 21psi :-) and we have same engine so you know im curious
Do you have a link for the guy running 375whp? I haven't seen that yet. Stock, the car only puts down 210-225 so that's another 150whp.

[mikey1981]

insurance co's area strange pack of squirrels.

[SuperStretch18]

I still think that the transmission is going to be this car's weakest link. Most of the engine internals are already forged, suspension is pretty stiff and should handle some added stress (though lower would be even better), brakes are respectable and should be able to handle a good amount of stress.

However, if I were tuning a stick shift and added 100 hp to my ride, an upgraded clutch would be a necessity. Automatic, that's not even an option.

I would love to be wrong though, so someone please show me otherwise!(drive2)

[Int3grity]

I still think that the transmission is going to be this car's weakest link. Most of the engine internals are already forged, suspension is pretty stiff and should handle some added stress (though lower would be even better), brakes are respectable and should be able to handle a good amount of stress.

However, if I were tuning a stick shift and added 100 hp to my ride, an upgraded clutch would be a necessity. Automatic, that's not even an option.

I would love to be wrong though, so someone please show me otherwise!(drive2)


At the racetrack (raceway park) englishtown nj we have seen several automatic mustangs racing. These cars where modded but had auto trans.
next time I go I will make sure I take pictures of them.

[Alpha Wolf]

I switched my 64 GTO drag car (Super Street Eliminator Car) from the stick 4 speed muncie to a turbo 400 because of repeated broken differentials and drive shafts twisted into a pretzel.

But I added a 4,000 rpm high stall torque converter, stiffer than stock 1st and 2nd gears and a trans break that allowed me to rev the motor to 4,000 rpm while holding the button and when we saw the yellow I would floor it and release the button and all I would see is blue sky for the next 60 ft. It also had a full manual valve body meaning you had to manually shift it (stronger and quicker harder shifting) with a reverse valve body which means you did not push the shifter toward neutral/reverse. You pulled it back like the CX7 away from these.

It stopped the breakage. But newer trannys are not a buff or as simple as the good old Turbo 400. While great for drag racing, they are a drag when doing the twisties I still prefer a Manual so long as I am not busting stuff.

It would be interesting to see if someone would make a higher stall torque converter and a shift kit for our tranny to make the manual shift quicker and firmer. This may take the form of a program for the TCU vs a physical valve screen changes.

[KatDiesel]

Oh, and hotrodding the CX7 would be a blast, in my opinion. How fun would it be to pull up to a light in a 4000lb grocery getter and put a beating on a newer GTO, or possibly a later model non-z06 vette? Haha, I would personally love it!(2thumbs)


I used to love doing that in my 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins). Weighed 7000lbs but ran low 13's and 1.8x 60ft times (ughdance)

[Alpha Wolf]

I used to love doing that in my 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 (Cummins). Weighed 7000lbs but ran low 13's and 1.8x 60ft times (ughdance)

The look you get afterward is worth a million bucks..

I used to do that with my VW Bug 1.9 liter weber stroker motor, and a pain in the ass to drive but it ran 13's and seeing a Nova driver 5.7 liter engine get out and kick the side of his car in at Infineon raceway... Priceless....

I don't think my CX will do that yet... More money and time needed...

[SuperStretch18]

At the racetrack (raceway park) englishtown nj we have seen several automatic mustangs racing. These cars where modded but had auto trans.
next time I go I will make sure I take pictures of them.
Whoot whoot englishtown! I'm going back up to Jersey this week. Will be staying in good old Manalapan with the mother-in-law. Unfortunately, I will be CX-7-less, but I will have a rental to abuse!

-back on topic-
Don't go out of your way with the photos. Once I get home I will look for the article I read putting the hp limit on our trans roughly 300 hp...(gossip)

[1Sleepy93]

It's the same transmission as the Volvo XC-90. It's rated for plenty more then 300hp. As I stated before, someone found the specs on the transmission manufacturer's site that stated 400 or 450ft-lbs of torque as the limit. I checked myself since I didn't believe it and came up with the same figures based on our tranny part number. Do a search and you should find the post about it.

Here is the discussion we had previously.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123640300&page=3&highlight=CX-7+tranny

[SuperStretch18]

It's the same transmission as the Volvo XC-90. It's rated for plenty more then 300hp. As I stated before, someone found the specs on the transmission manufacturer's site that stated 400 or 450ft-lbs of torque as the limit. I checked myself since I didn't believe it and came up with the same figures based on our tranny part number. Do a search and you should find the post about it.

Here is the discussion we had previously.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123640300&page=3&highlight=CX-7+tranny
Sorry, been away for vacation and just got back. I haven't been able to find the source for the article I referred to, which leads me to believe that I was probably confusing a forum post for actual data. Having the transmission part number was very helpful; I really appreciate the information! It is good to be wrong!!!(cheers2)

[cricket1977]

I still think that the transmission is going to be this car's weakest link. Most of the engine internals are already forged, suspension is pretty stiff and should handle some added stress (though lower would be even better), brakes are respectable and should be able to handle a good amount of stress.

However, if I were tuning a stick shift and added 100 hp to my ride, an upgraded clutch would be a necessity. Automatic, that's not even an option.

I would love to be wrong though, so someone please show me otherwise!(drive2)

The transmission may be the weakest link next to the limit our turbo can produce on our vehicles, but we do have options available for automatics as in valve body work and "bulletproofing" transmission. I can only remember one of the shops used from when I was in the Nissan community, but they used to do great work for automatic transmissions as I am sure they still do: http://www.levelten.com/ I would give them a call see if they can do anything for you. If I can remember the other shop that deals heavy into automatics I will post it..

[Spoolinup]

In reality, it's better to have an auto with a turbo motor anyways. No power loss between shifts, since there's virtually a constant load on the motor. Every time the load is lessened on a motor, a turbo will not spool as quickly, and where as larger displacement motors can make up for the loss of power between shifts, it's not so easy with a manual transmission.

Manual transmissions are funner tho...:D

[InlineTwin]

You can always add a bigger turbo. The better question would be would you really want to?

There are all sort of things that occur when you go that route. More heat = need for more cooling. More torque/hp = tranny strain. More speed = need for better suspension and better brakes. You'll need a professional tune, etc, etc. Most likely it will shorten your motor/vehicle life and kill the value of the car due to marketability.

Seriously though and this is just my opinion, but I'm having a hard time seeing this a a vehicle to go mod crazy on. I know the potential is there with any turbo vehicle and maybe folks are encouraged by Mazda's links to modded out cx7's on the factory site. But I have to be honest, if I were to see a cx with a fart can and a BOV I'd be 1st in line to laugh at you. It's not like you can autox or do a track day with the cx7. I guess you could, but why. If you wanted a sports car, why get this vehicle? It's not like the market is limited with choices. And I'm guessing you don't want the bigger turbo to have more towing power.

Just my 2 cents.

Why is there a Cayenne turbo? 500 HP and stupid fast SUV. Because some like it, not for the auto-x, but some other desire.

It is a luxury and hobby for most people that mod. Knocking it because it seems ridiculous is ridiculous! Not everyone can afford the Cayenne, but a 500 HP CX-7 would be just as cool for some.