MS3 at high speeds?

[maybemazda]

Hi again, I started another thread asking general thoughts about the mazdaspeed compared to the MKV. Good thread good answers, as I said before I drive a Legacy GT which is all good and fine but I will be getting a new car in about a year. Anyways while I was driving today and approaching fairly high speeds I didnt feel particular comfortable in this car. I am talking about 90-120 mph. I dont want to hear the morally corrupt people asking me why I need to to go that fast when they own a car with speed in the title, so lets just not go there. Now even in an STI I dont feel these speeds are comfortable and that is a VERY high performance machine. You may ask "what is stable at those speeds?". I drove a C43 AMG at around 145 and I felt like I was going 60 so maybe I have very high expectations, but even the current GTI was more stable than my Legacy at those speeds. So, is the MS3 sound at high speeds?
THX

[Mocoso]

An STI is NOT a VERY HIGH PERFORMANCE machine btw... but to get back on topic:

Stability at 90-120 MPH range is defined not only by the weight, weight distribution including center of gravity, tires, and the suspension but also by the aerodynamic characteristics of the car.... you can put a big ass wing in the back, tweak the front spoiler and rear diffuser but the basic shape of the car will have a huge impact on the aerodynamics of the car.... a lot of people fail to realize how much work and effort is placed on the UNDERSIDE of a high performance car to increase stability at high speeds.

The reason that C43 AMG feels more stable at 145 is due to the sum of parts - its part weight, weight distribution, shape, suspension, aerodynamic characteristics, and tires - it is also far more expensive than a MS3 - 20 something grand is only going to get you so much.....

For the price range the MS3 holds its own on the stability side at high speed but the suspension is too soft, the rear too light, and the underside has very little in the aero design area for it to compete wth cars in the trully high performance arena.... the STI btw suffers from the same types of problems and what it gains in weight distribution it loses in the aerodynamics of a brick area.....(my def. of high performance starts at the likes of a C6 Corvette and the types of cars that can match it or beat it - sheer speed need not apply)

Look at the underside of a C6 corvette, porche, or SL55 AMG and you will notice that there is a lot of thought placed as to how air will flow under the car....they are designed to create a huge amount of downward force as speeds increase - it isnt all done by a big ass wing in the back

I was actually pleased with how the MS3 handles at high speed as I expected much worse but the car doesnt get too nervous. The only complaint is the suspension is too soft and noticeable at high speeds

[maybemazda]

Yeah the suspension on the LGT is WAAAAY to soft for a car that big. I was not compfy at all. Maybe I am aiming to high but I want the handling as well as the speed. I shouldnt have used the words HIGH performance machine to characterize the STI maybe, but for what it is, I expected some amount of stability at high speeds, and there was NONE. It felt like it was on roller skates. Like I said though, the GTI performs admirably at high speeds. The engine falling out thing may just kill the MS3 for me. The GTI will take the hit on speed but at least it wont have the engine fall. I figure for a couple g's I can make the GTI at least as fast as the MS3. Only time will tell though, if the engine falling deal is fixed by the 08 model, I will pick one up for sure. I prolly just need to test one to get a feel. Ill know if it can handle at high speeds after driving it at the dealer for a bit. thx for the polite response.

[BuckDich]

I love how everyone is jumping to conclusions here. "I'd love to get a MS3, but I just don't have the time to deal with the engine falling out." That's like saying, "I wish I could fly to go visit my relatives but I don't want to crash into a building."

[maybemazda]

I love how everyone is jumping to conclusions here. "I'd love to get a MS3, but I just don't have the time to deal with the engine falling out." That's like saying, "I wish I could fly to go visit my relatives but I don't want to crash into a building."

LOL there are prolly less plane crashes. The part about not having time to deal with the engine falling out...thats a joke right? Why do you act like that is a normal occurence? Why do you act like every car suffers from this problem? Its lunacy. No conclusions are jumped to, only reality here. If the problem is fixed for 08 or the dealer that sells me my 07 can in some way prove to me that the problem has been handled then I will buy one. Plus your comparison sucked, it would work if ALL car companies had the engine falling out of the car...not only mazda. (eyeballs)

[dommo_g]

It felt fairly stable at 140. But like the other guy said, the suspension was a little soft. There was a small amount of float. I have a SRT-4 with coilovers, and other suspension mods, and god damn that thing is a pain in the ass as a daily driver, but at 155 it felt really attached to the road. So suspension mods for the MS3 will probably be at the top of the list as soon as there's more options.

[zoom-zoomhatch]

I'm sorry, my post and others about the failure may be misleading, the engine doesn't "fall out of the car" all hollywood style taking out cars behind you and causing mass histeria, the mount bolt breaks and the engine falls down on the side where it isn't held in place but in the cases I've heard of the other two mounts hold it in the engine bay itself still.

[maybemazda]

I'm sorry, my post and others about the failure may be misleading, the engine doesn't "fall out of the car" all hollywood style taking out cars behind you and causing mass histeria, the mount bolt breaks and the engine falls down on the side where it isn't held in place but in the cases I've heard of the other two mounts hold it in the engine bay itself still.

Yah I see, it does concern me though. After hearing about it though, I am surprised everyone isnt just going in with a wrench and some locktite. Or at least having a mazda dealer check it out.

[desperado-c]

Yah I see, it does concern me though. After hearing about it though, I am surprised everyone isnt just going in with a wrench and some locktite. Or at least having a mazda dealer check it out.

Dealers won't do anything without a TSB, so bringing it to the dealer when it isn't obviously loose is a waste of time. I know this from experience. And, personally, I didn't want to extract the bolt for loctiting myself since I don't want to give them any excuse to blame me if it does fall out on its own. I did, however put a torque wrench on it and make sure it was at least 80 ft/lbs tight. IIRC, this is about half way b/t the two different specs that The Man posted way back when (one was for engine removal and one for tranny removal as I recall). I'll probably check it once every 2 month or so. It's a little bit of a pain to take out the battery box for access to the bolt, but not too bad.

[Antonio DiMarco]

Dealers won't do anything without a TSB, so bringing it to the dealer when it isn't obviously loose is a waste of time. I know this from experience. And, personally, I didn't want to extract the bolt for loctiting myself since I don't want to give them any excuse to blame me if it does fall out on its own. I did, however put a torque wrench on it and make sure it was at least 80 ft/lbs tight. IIRC, this is about half way b/t the two different specs that The Man posted way back when (one was for engine removal and one for tranny removal as I recall). I'll probably check it once every 2 month or so. It's a little bit of a pain to take out the battery box for access to the bolt, but not too bad.

Whether a dealer does or does not look into an issue without a TSB is up to the dealer. My dealer has always looked into any issue (TSB or not) that I have reported. It all goes back to how much the dealer values customer service.

The engine falling out thing is a perfect example of an issue can get blown out of proportion quickly. The funny thing is that if you look back on history VW has probably had more catastrophic defects than Mazda. It's just that the Speed 3 is current. Whose to say the VW GTI won't have a similar issue two months from now.

One thing people fail to realize is that manufacturers are at the mercy of their parts suppliers. While a manufacturer does apply some level of quality control they can't test EVERY part- it's not cost effective, especially when you're dealing with tight profit margins. Issues with specific lots of parts happen all the time. If any of you looked at Consumer Reports in the 90's you'd notice that EVERY Japanese manufacturer- including the mighty Toyota- had horrible electrical and hardware issues. Why becasue they were all using a specific lot of Nippon-Denso parts.

And engine mount failing is bad, but let's keep some perspective.

[Rainman]

Check out the thread of the MS3 at 155 mph on the Autobahn. The video can be seen at Sport Compact Car. The car looked rock solid at that speed.

R

[mcb]

I didnt had the gut to take it over 210 and at that speed the car was very stable. The braking from 200 to 80 was strong and precise. you can modulate the breaking the abs is just going in when necessary.

Now where can i find an airport strip to go to 250 (laugh) would be to crazy to go at that speed on public roads (drive2)

[Mocoso]

Its a 10K repair bill paid by Mazda if it happens... at that run rate I doubt Mazda would allow any more MS3's to be sold until the issue was resolved if it was a recurring and highly probable issue. Not to mention a recall notice would have gone out by now... there isnt even a TSB on it which is the first step car makers take to fix issues like this

Like I said in the other thread.. this is a forum.. you will hear about every single horror story and I assure you I doubt any 08 (or even current production) MS3 will have this issue.

If the engine drop scares you that much I suggest you visit the VW forums and get a feel for the issues they are running into with their "pimp ride" - I suspect you will find a few horror stories like the engine falling out (theirs are more tranny related) -

[dommo_g]

I didnt had the gut to take it over 210 and at that speed the car was very stable. The braking from 200 to 80 was strong and precise. you can modulate the breaking the abs is just going in when necessary.

Now where can i find an airport strip to go to 250 (laugh) would be to crazy to go at that speed on public roads (drive2)

I slowed from 140 to about 65 really fast, and I got a headache. Good brakes on this car.

[adamsredms3]

It felt fairly stable at 140. But like the other guy said, the suspension was a little soft. There was a small amount of float. I have a SRT-4 with coilovers, and other suspension mods, and god damn that thing is a pain in the ass as a daily driver, but at 155 it felt really attached to the road. So suspension mods for the MS3 will probably be at the top of the list as soon as there's more options.

I agree. Feels like the car could use a little bit more rebound control. I had an SRT-4 before and with some suspension work it was stable at 140+. I'd love to get some of the weight up front - out back, but for now I have the wheel telescoped all the way out while still giving myself a comfortable and controlled distance between me and the steering wheel. Getting some of your body weight shifted towards the rear is a nice, inexpensive handling upgrade.

Being only a week old, I've limited my MS3 to 120 a few times but everything felt fine to me. At those speeds, no matter what car your driving, all your actions must be smooth and focused so you can avoid any costly mistakes. And if you feel like it is too fast, that brake pedal has to be one of the best I have felt in a long time.

[ReFlex]

For what i thought and don't quote me on this, their is a TSB coming out soon and the problem with this ordeal about the engine falling is a single washer on bolt #4 and not the tighten of the bolt...Believe me, i don't think it so happens that the same bolt on a few MS3 was loose...

[camrycev6]

I have had my MS3 up to about 90-110 (This morning too...until I saw a cop.) on several occasions for short periods of time. It always felt smooth to me at those speeds. Like others have said, sudden movements, braking, etc., all will effect how the car feels to you. Feelings aside, multiple reviews on the car by professionals have said the car is and feels stable (to them of course) at high speeds.

[Rainman]

Does anyone know what the spring rates are for the MS3? I haven't had a chance to look this up yet, but I wonder how they compare to the spring rates of the MSP. In comparison, I found my MSP to be more intimately connected to the ground. Weight probably has something to do with it, but so too does spring rate I would imagine.

R

[Ms3InMd]

I think that this car feels very stable at high speeds. I was doing 130 down 95 this afternoon until a car cut me off. Even then while braking it felt great. Though I wouldn't reccommend making any sudden movements at that speed.

[Speedy3]

I think that this car feels very stable at high speeds. I was doing 130 down 95 this afternoon until a car cut me off. Even then while braking it felt great. Though I wouldn't be making sudden movements at that speed.

Hmmm....Wonder how DSC will perform at those speeds.....Anyone up for a test?

[dommo_g]

I think that this car feels very stable at high speeds. I was doing 130 down 95 this afternoon until a car cut me off. Even then while braking it felt great. Though I wouldn't reccommend making any sudden movements at that speed.

At 130...you didn't get 'cut off'. The term cut off implies the cutting off driver did something wrong. I don't go that fast unless I have clear open road with no other cars for a looong way ahead of me.

[nondual]

Its a 10K repair bill paid by Mazda if it happens... at that run rate I doubt Mazda would allow any more MS3's to be sold until the issue was resolved if it was a recurring and highly probable issue. Not to mention a recall notice would have gone out by now... there isnt even a TSB on it which is the first step car makers take to fix issues like this

Like I said in the other thread.. this is a forum.. you will hear about every single horror story and I assure you I doubt any 08 (or even current production) MS3 will have this issue.

If the engine drop scares you that much I suggest you visit the VW forums and get a feel for the issues they are running into with their "pimp ride" - I suspect you will find a few horror stories like the engine falling out (theirs are more tranny related) -
Doubt all you want, but it happened to me on a current model (you've seen my work order). It IS happening and Mazda is freaked out enough to have two Mazda folks from Japan interview me about it personally. They said there are NHTSA complaints about it.

[zoom-zoomhatch]

I for one filed a complaint on the NHTSA website when my mount broke, maybe they'll turn some heads and get something done about it eventually.

[Ms3InMd]

At 130...you didn't get 'cut off'. The term cut off implies the cutting off driver did something wrong. I don't go that fast unless I have clear open road with no other cars for a looong way ahead of me.

(blah) No, just kidding I shouldn't have gone so fast, but the left lane was completly open.

[nonopr]

I have had this car in a staight line at 145 mph and the car feels very good. I do get a bit worry when it come to side to side turns it feels a bit disconnected. I dont know if the tires are the best but when time come to change tires I will do the research.
At 145 still feels with power to keep to the 150 and over.(nana)
All this in a close road no people to endanger




I have had my MS3 up to about 90-110 (This morning too...until I saw a cop.) on several occasions for short periods of time. It always felt smooth to me at those speeds. Like others have said, sudden movements, braking, etc., all will effect how the car feels to you. Feelings aside, multiple reviews on the car by professionals have said the car is and feels stable (to them of course) at high speeds.

[maybemazda]

yeah, it looks to be the car I am gonna get. Has everything I want and dont really need to mod it. I like going fast and its just not safe to do in a car that cant handle it. I think my LGT is just to big of a car to do that in without better suspension or brakes. I know its not really refined for that kind of driving, but I just feel more compfortable in a smaller car no matter what. The only thing i am wondering is if I will be able to pick one up used for cheap, if not new is fine. The MS6 is so cheap to buy used that i am wondering if the ms3 will do the same. I found a used ms3 with like 4000mi, for like 22 i think, but maybe in a year I can pick one up with 10-15000 miles on it for like 20grand or so. Thx for your responses.

[Boston5761]

Check out the thread of the MS3 at 155 mph on the Autobahn. The video can be seen at Sport Compact Car. The car looked rock solid at that speed.

R

As much as I love Mazda and the Speed3, I have to say that there's just not a car out there under 50K that is "rock solid" at 155. That's the problem with kids today...they see this shit and think that their entry level performance car can handle these excessively high rates of speed, and end up with it wrapped around a telephone pole or worse...kill innocent others. For what, because Sport Compact Car posted videos of it going 155 on the fucking Autobahn. This is NOT a race car...it's a quick $23K FWD!! I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard people on these forums bash SRT-4 owners for making such remarks, oh, but when MAZDA comes out with a car that can't even contend with the NEON in straight line performance it's a beast! It's a fucking "race car"...no, it's a car that can't even keep the motors from falling out of the damn thing, but yet we're talking about taking these at speeds over 140. Like I said...I love the car and while yes it is quick. It is by no means a car that should be driven at theses speeds, that's the end of discussion. Threads like these just piss me off... You want to drive like a race car driver, you want to go 140+...? Then fucking buy a race cae and take it to the TRACK. Quit, before you kill yourself or someone else...

[Ms3InMd]

As much as I love Mazda and the Speed3, I have to say that there's just not a car out there under 50K that is "rock solid" at 155. That's the problem with kids today...they see this shit and think that their entry level performance car can handle these excessively high rates of speed, and end up with it wrapped around a telephone pole or worse...kill innocent others. For what, because Sport Compact Car posted videos of it going 155 on the fucking Autobahn. This is NOT a race car...it's a quick $23K FWD!! I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard people on these forums bash SRT-4 owners for making such remarks, oh, but when MAZDA comes out with a car that can't even contend with the NEON in straight line performance it's a beast! It's a fucking "race car"...no, it's a car that can't even keep the motors from falling out of the damn thing, but yet we're talking about taking these at speeds over 140. Like I said...I love the car and while yes it is quick. It is by no means a car that should be driven at theses speeds, that's the end of discussion. Threads like these just piss me off... You want to drive like a race car driver, you want to go 140+...? Then fucking buy a race cae and take it to the TRACK. Quit, before you kill yourself or someone else...

I can kinda agree with this.

[Rainman]

As much as I love Mazda and the Speed3, I have to say that there's just not a car out there under 50K that is "rock solid" at 155. That's the problem with kids today...they see this shit and think that their entry level performance car can handle these excessively high rates of speed, and end up with it wrapped around a telephone pole or worse...kill innocent others. For what, because Sport Compact Car posted videos of it going 155 on the fucking Autobahn. This is NOT a race car...it's a quick $23K FWD!! I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard people on these forums bash SRT-4 owners for making such remarks, oh, but when MAZDA comes out with a car that can't even contend with the NEON in straight line performance it's a beast! It's a fucking "race car"...no, it's a car that can't even keep the motors from falling out of the damn thing, but yet we're talking about taking these at speeds over 140. Like I said...I love the car and while yes it is quick. It is by no means a car that should be driven at theses speeds, that's the end of discussion. Threads like these just piss me off... You want to drive like a race car driver, you want to go 140+...? Then fucking buy a race cae and take it to the TRACK. Quit, before you kill yourself or someone else...

Don't read my comments and think that I am advocating driving on ANY street or highway at this speed. Also do not believe that I imply that driving the car at 155 mph is like driving the car at 30 mph. My comments were simply to inform that the car had been videotaped travelling at 155 mph during traffic with no obvious signs of instability. ANY car travelling at those speeds is not LITERALLY rock solid. My comment was meant to be a relative description only.

I too think that it is irresponsible for people to drive this way on public roads in North America where we do not have provisions for this type of speed on our roadways. There is a reason why I cannot say that I personally have driven my car at this pseed. However, if I had the opportunity to drive this car with a roll cage on a closed track I would jump at the chance to experience that speed in this car. And I am sure that I wouldn't have to modify much to do so dependably and safely.

I do agree that much of the problems we face have to do with drivers, young and old, believing that their abilities extend further than they do in reality. I also agree that some people may try to emulate what they watched someone show on an Internet video. However, I do believe that ultimately each person is responsible for his, or her, own actions. Because the information is available does not mean that someone has to use it for misadventure. Anyone can post a video. What someone does after they watch it is their own business. Anyone who would go out on the street and then try to recreate this speed because they watched the video would have done the same without the video because they clearly are not concerned about the consequences of their actions.

R

[Vixen]

Doubt all you want, but it happened to me on a current model (you've seen my work order). It IS happening and Mazda is freaked out enough to have two Mazda folks from Japan interview me about it personally. They said there are NHTSA complaints about it.

I was at my dealer last week with a friend. She was trying to decide if she wanted to get a CX-7. She ended up getting a 3. Anyway, the salesman was saying that the car is designed to have the engine drop in an accident instead of getting pushed back into the cabin. I hadn't heard that before.

[AntimonyER]

I am extremely impressed with the stability of the MS3 at high speeds. I have a four lane road that is deserted at night, in the middle of nowhere, which I like to make some speed runs on. There is one stretch that allows me to top it out, which includes a left hand sweeper around when I hit 125-130. The car is planted around that curve, and to top it out you have to go over a bridge with a bump to get on and off at 150. And even then no real scary effects.

I don't recommend ever driving that fast unless you are an experienced driver at high speeds (I am an amateur road racer) and in a situation where the only person you can hurt is yourself (no traffic, no passengers). A pothole, oil slick, animal, sand, rock, tire tread, anything you hit at that speed WILL cause you to crash. Why do you think cautions are called for even small pieces of debris in racing?

But if you do ever find yourself in a situation where that speed is required (murderous case of road rage or perhaps a tornado on your tail) know that this car won't lose it for no reason. I think it was even more planted than my Z06 was at those speeds.

[nondual]

I was at my dealer last week with a friend. She was trying to decide if she wanted to get a CX-7. She ended up getting a 3. Anyway, the salesman was saying that the car is designed to have the engine drop in an accident instead of getting pushed back into the cabin. I hadn't heard that before.
Yeah..that's what the Mazda peeps said to me about the aluminum mounts - they have to be 'weak enough to drop the engine so it doesn't get pushed back into the cabin'. Whatever, as long as they're strong enough to not break when I'm not in an accident.

[Boston5761]

(I am an amateur road racer)

what does have to do with anything, Michael Waltrip is a EXPERT road racer but still managed to hit a telephone pole almost killing him a wek ago. Thats like me saying its okay for me to perform open heart surgery on a patient because im a DIT, (Doctor in training). Going on your comments this road is a public road, deserted or not...who's to say that one night while your driving your car down this stretch of road at 140 that a mother and child won't be on this same stretch. Racing training of any kind can not be applied to a situation like this, nothing taught in Skip Barber, etc. You are not in a race car, you're in a oem production car, things taught their are to be used in racing situations. Not careless reckless driving. Race cars and steet cars behave totally different.

[jhowey]

Logic, why would the manufacturer let the car go that fast if the car itself could not handle it. No I do not reccomend it and that kind of speed on a non track setting is not a good idea but you talk like the car cant handle that and is not suppose too which I believe is false.

Breakaway motor mounts are a common design in many new cars it is nice to know because if you are doin 140 and hit a wall then engine will not come into the cabin in theory. But I dont believe they crash test 140 mph impacts.

[Boston5761]

Logic, why would the manufacturer let the car go that fast if the car itself could not handle it. No I do not reccomend it and that kind of speed on a non track setting is not a good idea but you talk like the car cant handle that and is not suppose too which I believe is false.

Breakaway motor mounts are a common design in many new cars it is nice to know because if you are doin 140 and hit a wall then engine will not come into the cabin in theory. But I dont believe they crash test 140 mph impacts.

Many cars are capable of going at speeds that they cant handle, hell, a Geo Metro can go 110+. To explain this to you I'll say this...It is cheaper to produce a car like this that is capable of these speeds than to try and regulate it. Meaning all mazda had to do was take a engine already in production, modify it and slap it in a car that too was already in production. For them to try and regualte this would require them to add extra sensors, extra controls, and to be honest...speed is what sells. Especially when your talking about a car that falls in the 16-25 year old range of buyers.

I said nothing about breakaway motor mounts...I said the engine is falling out of these cars and people are talking about driving them 140+. These mounts are failing without any contact or wrecks to speak of. A couple of people have had theirs fail going 30mph, not 140. And if a car is involved in a wreck going 140 and hits a wall...the last thing you have to worry about is hoping your breakaway motor mounts work properly.

[Rainman]

Because a company has known issues with a few of its cars does not mean that ALL of its cars will have this issue. Nor does it mean that in the proper setting that car should not be driven up to its potential on the off chance that the known issue might suddenly spring up in the car being driven at the limit. If that was the case, none of us should be driving ANY car at speed as ALL cars have had issues at one time or another.

Quite often car manufacturers produce cars which are quite optimistic in terms of vehicle speed shown on the speedometer. However, many of these cars cannot attain these speeds even under the best of circumstances. Less frequently, they produce cars whose performance supersedes the speed shown on the speedometer. Normally, this is not the case. Generally, when manufacturers produce an automobile the speedometer covers the range of speeds that most drivers will use that car in.

The MS3 is sold in several markets worldwide including the European market. As was shown in the Sport Compact Car video there are areas where it is legal to travel at speeds in excess of 150 mph on public roadways. The MS3 did so without too much fanfare. The MS3 is electronically limited to 155 mph. The engine is capable of doing more. The manufacturers likely chose this limit because beyond which the control of the car becomes problematic for all but the most skilled drivers. I am fairly certain that the car doesn't self-destruct at high speed just becasue Mazda found it easier to leave the car as it was rather than limit it.

It is fairly easy for Mazda to limit the car in any way they choose. Such is the beauty of the ECU reflash. Already they have limited the top speed, as well as the torque in the first three gears to decrease torque steer.

Granted, this is not a race car. However, it is a performance-oriented car and as such is designed to handle stresses that your average grocery-getter may not be.

Just my orthopaedic fellow $0.02.

R

[adamsredms3]

I can't wait for the day when any topic on any forum can stay on track. This post started out as how the MS3 handles at higher speeds for those who wish to drive fast (reason why most of us bought this over a regular 3 anyways).

Will the whining about the motor mounts by stickied in a "For those who like to be paranoid thread" so all those people trying to tear apart this great auto can have somewhere to stand on their soapbox. Over the past few weeks I have gotten real tired of reading the same (direct) motor mount sh-t over and over. Check for your missing washer, if its not there put one in. Done.

And yes, driving fast is dangerous on public roads - everyone here knows that. This post was about driving the car at higher speeds and how people felt about the cars handling. Not about where or what they were doing at those speeds. I didn't read once about any members here condoning what they were doing. I also got a kick out of the comment about it being cheaper to produce faster cars...are you for real?

No I've got to go outside and drive fast to get out all my frustration. Good thing I'll have one of the best handling front wheel driven cars made underneath me.

[Vixen]

I can't wait for the day when any topic on any forum can stay on track. This post started out as how the MS3 handles at higher speeds for those who wish to drive fast (reason why most of us bought this over a regular 3 anyways).

Will the whining about the motor mounts by stickied in a "For those who like to be paranoid thread" so all those people trying to tear apart this great auto can have somewhere to stand on their soapbox. Over the past few weeks I have gotten real tired of reading the same (direct) motor mount sh-t over and over. Check for your missing washer, if its not there put one in. Done.

And yes, driving fast is dangerous on public roads - everyone here knows that. This post was about driving the car at higher speeds and how people felt about the cars handling. Not about where or what they were doing at those speeds. I didn't read once about any members here condoning what they were doing. I also got a kick out of the comment about it being cheaper to produce faster cars...are you for real?

No I've got to go outside and drive fast to get out all my frustration. Good thing I'll have one of the best handling front wheel driven cars made underneath me.

It's not good to drive when you're upset(fight)

[adamsredms3]

It's not good to drive when you're upset(fight)

Or like this (beer)

[Vixen]

Or like this (beer)

I hate it when people drive like(boobs)

[adamsredms3]

I hate it when people drive like(boobs)

Really? I'm not seeing enough of this (boobs2)

but I once saw a guy driving and he was doing this (nana)

Ha ha ha. Now this post is f----d.

[Boston5761]

[QUOTE=Rainman]Because a company has known issues with a few of its cars does not mean that ALL of its cars will have this issue. Nor does it mean that in the proper setting that car should not be driven up to its potential on the off chance that the known issue might suddenly spring up in the car being driven at the limit. If that was the case, none of us should be driving ANY car at speed as ALL cars have had issues at one time or another.

Quite often car manufacturers produce cars which are quite optimistic in terms of vehicle speed shown on the speedometer. However, many of these cars cannot attain these speeds even under the best of circumstances. Less frequently, they produce cars whose performance supersedes the speed shown on the speedometer. Normally, this is not the case. Generally, when manufacturers produce an automobile the speedometer covers the range of speeds that most drivers will use that car in.

The MS3 is sold in several markets worldwide including the European market. As was shown in the Sport Compact Car video there are areas where it is legal to travel at speeds in excess of 150 mph on public roadways. The MS3 did so without too much fanfare. The MS3 is electronically limited to 155 mph. The engine is capable of doing more. The manufacturers likely chose this limit because beyond which the control of the car becomes problematic for all but the most skilled drivers.

The MS3 is limited to this speed because thats what the insurance regulations mandate.

[Betelgeuse]

Many cars are capable of going at speeds that they

I said nothing about breakaway motor mounts...I said the engine is falling out of these cars and people are talking about driving them 140+. These mounts are failing without any contact or wrecks to speak of. A couple of people have had theirs fail going 30mph, not 140. And if a car is involved in a wreck going 140 and hits a wall...the last thing you have to worry about is hoping your breakaway motor mounts work properly.

I agree with most of what you're saying but try to keep the drama turned down a notch. THE ENGINES ARE NOT FALLING OUT. Falling out means just that and no one has had to stop, get out and go look for their engine on the road somewhere. Yes some (and only some)tranny mounts have failed causing the engine to drop on the axle. And Yes I agree, at high speeds this could probably lead to a bad situation but that has yet to be seen.

[matsuda]

The MS3 is electronically limited to 155 mph. The engine is capable of doing more.

That is being optimistic.

The latest C&D had the top speed at 151, drag (power) limited.

I'm sure that under the right circumstances, the car is capable of 155 but there can't be much more in reserve.

It's too bad that Mazda didn't limit the top speed to something a bit more sane, especially for the North American market. There are probably way too many kids that would want to find out if the 155 limiter really exists.

[camrycev6]

Interesting side note...the European version is listed (like the US version) to be limited to 155 MPH. It actually is not.... the car can go above it. The Dec 2006 Automobile magazine took a MS3 to 162 MPH in Germany on public oads with no issues....

[dommo_g]

The MS3 is limited to this speed because thats what the insurance regulations mandate.


What insurance regulations are those? Do you have a link to your source on that?

[camrycev6]

Boston, I would like to see your evidence on that as well. Considering that the electronic speed limiters in cars vary widely across the board for similar vehicles, that statement makes no sense. Below is some data to consider. Notice that most cars are electronically limited versus drag limited, but yet the speeds vary quite a bit. Are you suggesting that the insurance on a GTI should be less than a MS3 because it can't go a fast? Insurance has way more to do with cost of vehicle, class of vehicle, and safety features (air bags, anti-lock brakes, etc.) After all, I can make a Hyundai Accent go over 100 MPH -- but insurance is dirt cheap for those cars. Check it out:

G6 - 118(e)
Aura - 115(e)
SS - 141(d)
GTI - 126(e)
MS3 - 155(e)
Red Line - 145(d)
Altima - 146(e)
WRX - 145(d)

[maybemazda]

Beyond that, I dont see how ANYONE anywhere can make a case that one speed (60 mph for instance) is any less dangerous than another (50 mph). I havent seen any info anywhere that shows any speed being much safer than another. Maybe I am not explaining this well, but what standards have they used to decide what is the safest speed to go. And if they are using speed limits as a safety mechanism, why dont they just make them all like 34? The lower the safer, right? Why is there no speed limit on the bhan?

Dont get me wrong, I believe there SHOULD be speed limits, but I also think they are for people that cant make good decisions. I have gone well over a hunred on the expressway before when there was no one around and I had a clear line with no traffic. I take the risk of getting a ticket, and or blowing a tire and killing myself. I did this in a car that could more than handle these speeds though and I was fine, nothing wrong there.

People that complain about going fast, spare me your moral attacks, if you REALLY believed what you said, you wouldnt drive at all because everytime you get in a car, you risk your life and others whether you go 60 mph or 120.(smash)

[camrycev6]

True...there is always some sort of risk in just about anything you do...but that is slippery slope you are on with your argument....

While I agree with your concepts of relative speeds being the same, I think you would have to concede that the risk of injury (especially fatal) and the number injuries / damage goes up as speed increases. So, that said, there is a big difference between 60 and 120 and you cannot compare the two. It comes down to pure physics really, and momentum = MV

That is why they set speed limits in the first place. They just don't do it on the cars because people would have a cow. Have a wreck in a residential area doing 90 versus 20 and see how much damage you do. You driving on a closed road at 120 --- fine. You driving on I95 during a busy day at 120 --- not the same. If you wreck you are a lot more likely to hurt more than just yourself at 120 versus 60 --- Hence the relative risk is not even close to the same.

BTW.. the autobahn folks have been steadily reducing the no limit sections. There has been a recent discussion of moving the max to 130 km/hr (A little over 80 MPH)

[Boston5761]

Boston, I would like to see your evidence on that as well. Considering that the electronic speed limiters in cars vary widely across the board for similar vehicles, that statement makes no sense. Below is some data to consider. Notice that most cars are electronically limited versus drag limited, but yet the speeds vary quite a bit. Are you suggesting that the insurance on a GTI should be less than a MS3 because it can't go a fast? Insurance has way more to do with cost of vehicle, class of vehicle, and safety features (air bags, anti-lock brakes, etc.) After all, I can make a Hyundai Accent go over 100 MPH -- but insurance is dirt cheap for those cars. Check it out:

G6 - 118(e)
Aura - 115(e)
SS - 141(d)
GTI - 126(e)
MS3 - 155(e)
Red Line - 145(d)
Altima - 146(e)
WRX - 145(d)

What are you talking about? The speed is limited to 155mph because thats what the automakers and insurance agreed on...meaning thats the max a car is allowed to go. I said nothing about cost of insurance?

[Boston5761]

Beyond that, I dont see how ANYONE anywhere can make a case that one speed (60 mph for instance) is any less dangerous than another (50 mph). I havent seen any info anywhere that shows any speed being much safer than another. Maybe I am not explaining this well, but what standards have they used to decide what is the safest speed to go. And if they are using speed limits as a safety mechanism, why dont they just make them all like 34? The lower the safer, right? Why is there no speed limit on the bhan?

Dont get me wrong, I believe there SHOULD be speed limits, but I also think they are for people that cant make good decisions. I have gone well over a hunred on the expressway before when there was no one around and I had a clear line with no traffic. I take the risk of getting a ticket, and or blowing a tire and killing myself. I did this in a car that could more than handle these speeds though and I was fine, nothing wrong there.

People that complain about going fast, spare me your moral attacks, if you REALLY believed what you said, you wouldnt drive at all because everytime you get in a car, you risk your life and others whether you go 60 mph or 120.(smash)

http://www.virginiadot.org/info/faq-speedlimits.asp

[Boston5761]

that's like saying there's no difference in me getting hit by a 72 mph curve and getting hit with a 98mph fastball, because they could both kill me.

[camrycev6]

What are you talking about? The speed is limited to 155mph because thats what the automakers and insurance agreed on...meaning thats the max a car is allowed to go. I said nothing about cost of insurance?

I would have to ask you what you are talking about. Sorry, but you aren't making any sense. You are saying that insurance companies limit the speed of cars on an individual basis? So, "they" -- some conglomerate of insurance companies / automakers -- have decided that a MS3 can go to 155, but a GTI can only go to 126. A G6's can only go to 118, and an Aura can only go to 115? What magical data are they using to base this on? Any why would they do this, if it doesn't affect insurance rates? Why would the insurance companies even be involved?

It makes no sense at all, and you have yet to provide any logical basis for your conclusion.

[camrycev6]

that's like saying there's no difference in me getting hit by a 72 mph curve and getting hit with a 98mph fastball, because they could both kill me.

Not at all. You have completely missed my point.


Beyond that, I dont see how ANYONE anywhere can make a case that one speed (60 mph for instance) is any less dangerous than another (50 mph). I havent seen any info anywhere that shows any speed being much safer than another.

My point: I am saying there is a huge difference in risk (danger) between large differences in speed when it comes to cars. To use an example of 50 versus 60 and then casually compare 60 to 120 isn't at all reasonable. And there is plenty of data to support that speed is a critical factor in injuries / fatalities involving vehicles. Here are just a couple of good sources:

http://www.erso.eu/knowledge/content/20_speed/speed_and_accident_risk.htm

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/speed_limits.html

Using your logic, any car at any speed all equally carry the same risk because any of them could kill you. I agree that a car doing 10 could kill me just as like a car doing 100 could. However, the risk involved is clearly not the same, so therefore I should rationally treat the two situations differently. My point (which you obviously missed) is that a car traveling at 120 miles an hour has far greater potential to injure / kill than a car traveling at 60 miles an hour. If your definition of risk doesn't consider the conditions, then everyday life would be either dramatically conservative, or recklessly foolish. Something tells me (as I am not trying to insult you) that you do consider relative risks whether you want to admit it here or not.

[Boston5761]

Have read anything i've posted, I said nothing about insurance regulating cars individually. I said it's limited to 155 because cars produced today, unless an exotic are regulated to that speed, as a MAX SPEED. In Germany it's called the gentleman's act, in other countries it's called different things. I said nothing about a GTI being the same cost as a speed? Once again...cars today are limited to a MAX speed of 155mph, by some sort of governor, thats a MAX SPEED. Some are limited to 98mph, some 125mph. None above 155mph.

[camrycev6]

I have read everything you have posted, which is why I am surprised by your comments.

Boston...I can see you aren't going to address any of my points, even when I quote your own posts back to you. You just keep changing the point you are attempting to make after I point out the errors in your previous attempts. I can't have a discussion if you are going to persist on being irrational. I know it is hard for me to do when it happens, but can't you just admit you are wrong on this one? (Or two in this case...)

Anyway, I will leave you with one final point --- which I am fairly confident you will ignore.... Many cars -- and exotics still count as cars because they are "street legal" and must be adhere to those laws --- are not limited to 155. I just provided an earlier example of an MS3 going to 162. (Did you read my post?) ZO6 Corvettes, Vipers, Porsches 911s, Ferrari's (several), Bugatti, Aston Martin, etc., etc. all can go faster than 155 -- their electronic limiters are higher that 155, and in some cases are drag limited -- but are still higher than 155. And yes, the go faster than 155 in Germany too! Again...all of them are street legal, so what mysterious gentleman's law are you talking about? If it exists, why do so many cars not have to adhere to it?

This is nothing personal man, but you haven't really offered one counterpoint to anything I have said. You have either ignored it, changed your statements (Again...why I quoted you), or offered dubious counter statements (typically to points I didn't make in the first place) with no facts or rationale to back them. Just go back and read the whole thread again...you might see my points. If not, hey, I tried. I will let the posts speak for themselves.

[AntimonyER]

I must agree with camry on that point, my Z06 went well above 155. Just reference your latest Car and Driver or Road and Track, and look for an exotic, and you will see top speeds well above 155.

[dommo_g]

Still waiting for your source on who decides what a car is electronically speed limited to.....or did you just pull that out of your ass?

[camrycev6]

Dommo...I would not hold your breath. I think I might have scared him off!

[Mocoso]

ITS ALL ABOUT TIRES!

Guys on most cars the electronic speed limit is due to max tire speed ratings... its that simple

Lets refocus the thread on topic and call a truce on this argument....

[camrycev6]

There was never an argument to begin with. I was never angry --- this was more like a one sided discussion.

I also think the thread topic has pretty much been addressed.

Finally, I have to cry BS at your tire comment. There is no more logic or truth to that than many of Boston's statements. There are tires that cover the entire range up to 186 MPH. There are also tires rated for speeds over 186 MPH. So if I could just put a better tire on the car, why would I limit the performance?

[tbone13]

I hate it when people drive like(boobs)


love when people drive like that (breakn)

[maybemazda]

Yah the question has been answered COMPLETELY. Thx for all the responses, to be honest, I learned alot more on this forum than just the handling characteristics of the Ms3 at high speeds, but all good stuff. I am not sure if i said anything controversial in this final post, but if I did(peep)

[Mocoso]

There was never an argument to begin with. I was never angry --- this was more like a one sided discussion.

I also think the thread topic has pretty much been addressed.

Finally, I have to cry BS at your tire comment. There is no more logic or truth to that than many of Boston's statements. There are tires that cover the entire range up to 186 MPH. There are also tires rated for speeds over 186 MPH. So if I could just put a better tire on the car, why would I limit the performance?

Well since the thread has run its course Ill take it off topic then... the answer is simple: If manufacturer put a tire rated to 125 MPH to save on cost it wouldnt make sense for it to let you go 180 MPH and have a tire blowout just so you can sue them for negligence.... speed is actually governed for two reasons and yes tires is just one example but mainly:
1. Due to design limits of the car (whatever those limits car manuf. deems them to be - tires tend to be high up there)
2. To keep insurance rates lower (yes there are countries where insurance is higher if yer car can go faster - Boston wasnt wrong on this)

[camrycev6]

I see what you are saying, but the facts don't back you up. Further, it doesn't make sense financially (see below), so your premise is flawed. Why limit a car that is capable of better performance because of an assumed cost increase for tires? Tire companies and car companies have also have discount deals because them because of the volume of business. I would think a car company would want to report the best numbers they could for their cars (Especially sports cars...) to sell them.

Here is the critical part on this. If you do a little research (I like tirerack.com) you will see that size, performance type, and manufacturer are the main factors for determining cost. If you look at tires by the same company, you will see that the speed rating has almost nothing to do with it. In fact, in the majority of the cases, lower speed rated tires cost more than higher rated tires because of the application! (In other words, the Z rated tires are generally all Summer tires, where a V or H rated tired might be an all season perfomance tire or Winter tire --- and be more expensive.)

Also, you haven't provided any data on your insurance comment. I am not the only person to ask for it. I have already explained that it is inconsistent with the way cars perform and since you and Boston are making the statement, the burden of proof is on you. Just where have you found that insurance companies have a role in limiting cars top speeds to keep rates lower?

So I agree that your answer is simple. It simply doesn't provide any data or facts to back up your conclusions.

But hey, I'm a fair guy and I enjoy a good discussion. (Again...just like with Boston...this is nothing personal against you.)

Let's assume for a second that you are right in your conclusions. That
1) Tires play a role in determing the max speed of a car and
2) Insurance rates play a role in determing the max speed of a car

....so far neither you nor Boston have been able to give any valid reasons why. I just invalidated your financial reasoning for the tires...so what else have you got for #1? I am still waiting on ANY reason for number two.

[Ms3InMd]

How the hell is this thread still going

[BuckDich]

Well I certainly want to know what the limit is of this car. If, for example, the electronic limiter was defeated and enough power was added, what would the MS3 be doing at redline in 6th gear?

[camrycev6]

How the hell is this thread still going

I am still seeing some bold statement made with no facts / logic to back them up....and I just can't let it slide. Call it a character flaw, but I just can't help it. You know the guy at work that researches urban legends to see if they are true or not? Yeah...that's me....

[Mocoso]

Dude there is plenty of info out on the internet on car speed governors and the reasons for them... to keep it simple you can do a wikipedia search on "why do cars need speed governors" (and yes Wikipedia isnt always right I know...)

On the insurance front I didnt believe it either until I did a search on the gentlemen's agreement... its mainly a European manuf/insurance thing hence Boston was right... I DONT KNOW if that holds in the US and if insurance companies here care but you would think top speed would have a factor in the overall insurance equation

And if you dont think insurance plays any role in car design do a history search on muscle cars of the late 60s/early 70's and see how many had to tone it down a notch just so insurance co. wouldnt black ball the cars....

And your tirerack pricing example is useless as car manuf. doesnt buy tires from tirerack. Their pricing models are completely different than what you would buy at tire rack... car makers buy in volume and if they can shave $1 off the cost of each tire it means $4 more profit on every car. Did you know on some cars the tires that come with the car have less thread then the same tire you buy at tirerack? (now you are going to ask me for proof... ) -

I stand by the fact that tires (among other design decisions made by the car manuf) play a role on the top speed of the car and if you do the same 5 minute research you will realize Boston wasnt wrong on the gentlemens agreement..

if you need more proof your gona have to go do your own research and if you still want to call my statements BS that is fine too but Im putting this to rest from my end

[clos561]

i could see this car hitting 170 easily with mods and w/e but i dont see a reason for these kidns of speeds....ive never even taken my car past 130..

[camrycev6]

I have to throw my hands up in the air on this one if you are going to provide a response like that Mocoso. In any event, I can rest easy on this one too. I am glad I live in a world of science and facts where mere speculation and opinions don't really count for much. My tirerack example is actually a good example, since it clearly indicates a trend in costs of tires. Your arbitrary numbers of saving $1 / $4 a car are not accurate nor realistic. I could easily provide real examples of higher speed rated tires running $10 / 20 /30...etc less than a slower rated similar tire. When I can show a premise is clearly false in many cases, it destroys the validity of premise. Since we clearly aren't going to this with facts and logic, I can't discuss it. You can stand by your "facts" all day and all night --- but you haven't really provided anything more than opinions really. You, of course, are more than entitled to that.

If you look at why insurance companies charge what they do (I have...) it is becaues of the class of vehicle, cost of vehicle and your driving history. (Age, wrecks, points.) I can drive a Elantra 100+ MPH, so why don't they charge me a lot? That is why people who speed get points and the insurance goes up. The speed potential of a car isn't a major factor, because any car can go fast. (Relatively speaking.) Once you go over about 90 MPH (And I have data on this...), damage, injuries, etc. goes up exponentially! This is why they tried (and failed) to limit cars to 85 in the 80s. It failed...and what did they conclude? People were going to responsible for their own actions and speeds. They got rid of it. If insurance companies could regulate speed, they would! Cars would be back at 85 (or something close) as max speeds. Since they can't do that...they do the next best thing...they punish people who speed and have accidents with higher rates.

Oh yes...I have done more research... and still come up with the same data, facts, and conclusions on tires....

Case closed.

[Rainman]

Interestingly, the "Gentelmen's Agreement" was valid in Japan where auto manufacturers agreed not to produce cars in excess of 275 HP in an effort to avoid an automotive arms race to produce more powerful cars. This agreement was followed for many years until fairly recently when the whole thing seemed to get tossed out the window as Japanese manufacturers sought to compete with European marques. Now, we see cars producing in excess of 275 HP coming from Japan more and more frequently.

While insurability may have played a role in the drafting of the agreement, I am not at all certain that it was because of an active role of the insurance companies or rather, because of a general desire of the manufacturers to maximize the utility of cars that they produce.

R

[dommo_g]

Well. I spent quite a bit of time with my salesman, the sales managet, and the owner of the dealership I bought my car at. Discussions got pretty candid the longer I hung around and BS'd. John, the dealership owner, talked about an owner's meeting they had with MazdaUSA officials. Just basically talking about the car, getting them ready for it to go on sale. John says that when they had the car in Europe doing testing, completely ungoverned, they were able to achieve a speed of 216. This information was never released to the press. But John swears up and down that's what the car did.

Take that with a grain of salt. But this is the dealership OWNER we're talking about, not a bum of a salesman. Personally, I don't buy it. I think the car is drag/gear limited to way less than that. But I'm just saying what he said that they said. lol

[Rainman]

While I am not sure I believe 216 mph, I do suspect that 155 mph is not simply because of drag limitation. I don't have any data to back up that suspicion, but on the other hand I don't see any data suggesting that it is drag limited to that speed. It would be interesting to find out what it could do ungoverned...just for interest sake...LOL!

R

[camrycev6]

I don't know about 216 either. I know the car is listed in magazines as 155 electronically limited. I also know that a test was done in Germany that had a stock car going 162 MPH. (Apparently their point was that it wasn't governed to 155 as indicated.) I NEVER plan on taking my car even near 155, so it really doesn't matter much to me.

[gsrtype1]

An STI is NOT a VERY HIGH PERFORMANCE machine btw... but to get back on topic:

Stability at 90-120 MPH range is defined not only by the weight, weight distribution including center of gravity, tires, and the suspension but also by the aerodynamic characteristics of the car.... you can put a big ass wing in the back, tweak the front spoiler and rear diffuser but the basic shape of the car will have a huge impact on the aerodynamics of the car.... a lot of people fail to realize how much work and effort is placed on the UNDERSIDE of a high performance car to increase stability at high speeds.

The reason that C43 AMG feels more stable at 145 is due to the sum of parts - its part weight, weight distribution, shape, suspension, aerodynamic characteristics, and tires - it is also far more expensive than a MS3 - 20 something grand is only going to get you so much.....

For the price range the MS3 holds its own on the stability side at high speed but the suspension is too soft, the rear too light, and the underside has very little in the aero design area for it to compete wth cars in the trully high performance arena.... the STI btw suffers from the same types of problems and what it gains in weight distribution it loses in the aerodynamics of a brick area.....(my def. of high performance starts at the likes of a C6 Corvette and the types of cars that can match it or beat it - sheer speed need not apply)

Look at the underside of a C6 corvette, porche, or SL55 AMG and you will notice that there is a lot of thought placed as to how air will flow under the car....they are designed to create a huge amount of downward force as speeds increase - it isnt all done by a big ass wing in the back

I was actually pleased with how the MS3 handles at high speed as I expected much worse but the car doesnt get too nervous. The only complaint is the suspension is too soft and noticeable at high speeds
sti is not a high perfomance,(uhm) 0-60 in 4.2 sec

[dommo_g]

Even more high performance STI:

http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/369

[clos561]

sti is not a high perfomance,(uhm) 0-60 in 4.2 sec
yes awd 0-60, after 60 (yupnope)

[fourthmeal]

I love how everyone is jumping to conclusions here. "I'd love to get a MS3, but I just don't have the time to deal with the engine falling out." That's like saying, "I wish I could fly to go visit my relatives but I don't want to crash into a building."


You laugh, ..but that shit just happened to me!!!

My driver's motor mount sheared off today...The engine is GONE.

[AWDRACER6]

The MS6 at 145 feels as good as 40. Just with the added rush of goin fast! But ur lookin at the ms3 so good luck with ur purchase!

[clos561]

The MS6 at 145 feels as good as 40. Just with the added rush of goin fast! But ur lookin at the ms3 so good luck with ur purchase!
i am sure this car is good at 140...i never took it to 140 but 125 feels fine unless the windows are rolled down then u feel some tugging on the wheel and u gota get a good grip..which is normal because wind and shit..
mazda = godly

[BuckDich]

You laugh, ..but that shit just happened to me!!!

My driver's motor mount sheared off today...The engine is GONE.

Well, any advice to the rest of us?

[fourthmeal]

Dunno! Stop, drop the car off at a Mazda dealership, and DEMAND they fix it before it happens to you.

All of us who have had this happen, we need to get in front of Mazda's face. I've owned 4 Mazdas not including this one, and I think this is the one that takes me away from them.

[WTF MATE]

I've had the car to 155 and after 145 or so it took what seemed like forever to get the last 10mph out of it, I highly doubt this car would go any faster if the limiter was gone. It may be partially aerodynamics, but i'm going to say the biggest issue is that the turbo just runs out of steam.

[camrycev6]

I've had the car to 155 and after 145 or so it took what seemed like forever to get the last 10mph out of it, I highly doubt this car would go any faster if the limiter was gone. It may be partially aerodynamics, but i'm going to say the biggest issue is that the turbo just runs out of steam.

Probably true, I doubt too that the car could go much above 155 -- drag and power are problems there. However, I don't ever see me taking it close to that, so I am not worried about it. I would gladly sacrifice power above 120 to have it between 50-80

[clos561]

Probably true, I doubt too that the car could go much above 155 -- drag and power are problems there. However, I don't ever see me taking it close to that, so I am not worried about it. I would gladly sacrifice power above 120 to have it between 50-80
yea most races are 0-120 at the most...unless u got big turbos, freeway space and brave enough to handle getting arrested for some dumb shit

[camrycev6]

Exactly.

[Rotus8]

Or take it here:
http://www.utah.com/playgrounds/bonneville_salt.htm

[clos561]

Or take it here:
http://www.utah.com/playgrounds/bonneville_salt.htm
yea cuz thats fun.....toping ur car out for no reason at a salt field....?? thats only fun if ur car does 200+ and u wanna get drunk and top out ur ferrari enzo

[WTF MATE]

I think I had put this up already but, this is a wot in 6th gear during a long trip so engine might have been a little heat soaked but as you can see power greatly dies out.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c268/AussieM3/th_MOV00892.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c268/AussieM3/?action=view&current=MOV00892.flv)

[br289165]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj298/br289165/944P5001-3.jpg
Yes it's hard to beat the Germans at high speed road feel and stability. This old one feels at 120 as stable as at 70.


Hi again, I started another thread asking general thoughts about the mazdaspeed compared to the MKV. Good thread good answers, as I said before I drive a Legacy GT which is all good and fine but I will be getting a new car in about a year. Anyways while I was driving today and approaching fairly high speeds I didnt feel particular comfortable in this car. I am talking about 90-120 mph. I dont want to hear the morally corrupt people asking me why I need to to go that fast when they own a car with speed in the title, so lets just not go there. Now even in an STI I dont feel these speeds are comfortable and that is a VERY high performance machine. You may ask "what is stable at those speeds?". I drove a C43 AMG at around 145 and I felt like I was going 60 so maybe I have very high expectations, but even the current GTI was more stable than my Legacy at those speeds. So, is the MS3 sound at high speeds?
THX

[Bravnik]

Coming from an S2000 to the MS3, the MS3 is very floaty at hight speeds. The S2000 at 140 might as well been at 60mph. The MS3 way more stable at high speeds than I thought it would be.

[08 Max]

IMO the Speed3 is a very good car at high speeds, far superior to my 03 VR6 GTI. I think there's two reasons for it, first the stiffer spring rates and second, there has been some aero attention paid to the car (at least that's what they state in the advertising mumbo-jumbo) in the form of the little winglets around the wheel wells.

On another note, this car has the brakes to be doing those kinds of speeds, many others that are capable of the speed can't do the required stopping (witness muscle cars in previous years that I've owned several of).

I think the car could use much more dampening, even at very high speeds the car is a bit prone to getting bounced, thicker anti-roll bars may also be a solution...

[kneedragger241]

I had a moment of moral irresponsibility one late night on a pretty clear stretch of highway where I played tag with a 300C SRT8.
Saw an indicated 150mph and felt quite comfortable with how the car responded.
The brakes are super impressive.
This car is really too good for being only $21K.

Really, in any car, erratic inputs will upset the car's stability and get you in trouble.
I'm not justifying my actions or saying I'm god's gift to driving because I have a lot more experience and training than the average driver out there, but I'm also not some 18 year old that thinks he can drive because he saw all three Fast and Furious movies.

[blkMS3]

well honestly the speed is one of the worst cars that i've owned at high speeds....even w/ the tein springs the car still feels like it's all over the place....it feels extremely floaty and sometimes outright dangerous.....my last car was a 2004 Jetta GLI w/ a k04 swap and that car at 140-150 was rock solid....the car i had b4 that was a turbo vr6 GTI 97 drivers edition.....that car i have had up to 150-160 and it felt really solid 2....maybe i need more suspension work done to make the speed feel like the other 2 cars did....the other night i was playing w/ a caliber srt4 on the highway and at about 145-150 the car felt really unstable so i backed off it a lil but it made me realize how much i missed my vw's lol.....(only in the handling at high speeds dept. tho)

[MS3077]

well honestly the speed is one of the worst cars that i've owned at high speeds....even w/ the tein springs the car still feels like it's all over the place....it feels extremely floaty and sometimes outright dangerous.....my last car was a 2004 Jetta GLI w/ a k04 swap and that car at 140-150 was rock solid....the car i had b4 that was a turbo vr6 GTI 97 drivers edition.....that car i have had up to 150-160 and it felt really solid 2....maybe i need more suspension work done to make the speed feel like the other 2 cars did....the other night i was playing w/ a caliber srt4 on the highway and at about 145-150 the car felt really unstable so i backed off it a lil but it made me realize how much i missed my vw's lol.....(only in the handling at high speeds dept. tho)


Banned for street racing!

[Silver Ecstasy]

All this talk about GTI's. I've never even dared to look at one until today and I gotta admit i'm sorta impressed with the options and features stock on that car!

[MS3077]

All this talk about GTI's. I've never even dared to look at one until today and I gotta admit i'm sorta impressed with the options and features stock on that car!


Yeah they have a lot of features for a stock car in its price range but a lot of those features don't hold up. I hear they have a lot of electrical problems and of course the reliable rating on VW's is horrendous.

I was seriously considering a GTI until I found out how unreliable they are and the fact that there was a certain Mazdaspeed 3 out there..

[Silver Ecstasy]

Yeah I have heard about the same.

VW's site is really impressive, and the details and options are actually pretty funny. See: "Alphabet Brakes" and "Grab Handles" descriptions.

Otherwise, less HP and more money. I'm stickin with the MS3.

[MS3077]

Yeah I have heard about the same.

VW's site is really impressive, and the details and options are actually pretty funny. See: "Alphabet Brakes" and "Grab Handles" descriptions.

Otherwise, less HP and more money. I'm stickin with the MS3.

Yeah I agree I wish Mazda had a site as entertaining as VW. Mazda's site is sort of boring if you ask me. :(

[Silver Ecstasy]

Yeah I agree I wish Mazda had a site as entertaining as VW. Mazda's site is sort of boring if you ask me. :(

Even Nissan has sections where they suggest actually pushing the car while test driving it.

Ah well. Back to the original topic. I thought the car did great at 80mph on my test drive. Didn't bother pushing higher than that. Is it really that unstable at higher speeds?

[MS3077]

Even Nissan has sections where they suggest actually pushing the car while test driving it.

Ah well. Back to the original topic. I thought the car did great at 80mph on my test drive. Didn't bother pushing higher than that. Is it really that unstable at higher speeds?


I've ran mine up to 140mph and it seemed pretty damn stable if you ask me.

[bykeryder4life]

I have topped my car out to the limiter and it felt very comfortable and stable for the type of car and its weight etc..... Bravnik: my friend has a s2k and that car is not nearly as stable at high speeds as our car is, it is way to light and gets floaty our car holds the road better

[WTF MATE]

I think this car is as smooth as silk at high speeds. Hatchbacks do produce alot more downforce than coupes.

[camrycev6]

Feels smooth to me at high speeds. The only time I even worry a bit is if the roads are rough. As long as they are smoooth, you are good to go.

[Mocoso]

This thread is officially a zombie... it dies only to come back a year later.... I said it a year ago Ill say it again: An STI is NOT a VERY high performance machine :D

(Damn it I got thriller theme song stuck in my head now..damn Zombies....)

[dkswim]

very stable but any small input and your a lane over and any small bumbs and it floats. did it once not planning on returning anytime soon.

[Ben Nast]

That is being optimistic.

The latest C&D had the top speed at 151, drag (power) limited.

I'm sure that under the right circumstances, the car is capable of 155 but there can't be much more in reserve.

It's too bad that Mazda didn't limit the top speed to something a bit more sane, especially for the North American market. There are probably way too many kids that would want to find out if the 155 limiter really exists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbfr9h-5-Rc

[camrycev6]

There was a Road & Track that had it on the autobahn at 162 MPH

[CTGrey02]

Hitting 162 and feeling safe at 162 are totally different things. Yes I've sped excessively myself, and no the car isn't stable at speeds that I feel comfortable with in my Mustang. Going fast is dangerous in any car, but this one feels more so.

[Donas64]

Hitting 162 and feeling safe at 162 are totally different things. Yes I've sped excessively myself, and no the car isn't stable at speeds that I feel comfortable with in my Mustang. Going fast is dangerous in any car, but this one feels more so.

I could stare at your avatar all day. Free Style pooping is an art form.

[ericrapp]

Over 155 on the right occasions. Seems very planted. Will go beyond this summer, after some more mods. Bear in mind smooth surface and NO turning. I do not trust the oem tires.

[08 Max]

I wouldn't describe the high speed sensation so much as floating, to me its bouncy due to a lack of rebound dampening. Now, my parents 1981 Parisienne, that car floated!

Honestly I'd say the car is definitely in the top 20 percent of vehicles at high speed, its not perfect but you've got to be realistic about what things are like at that speed.

[Silver Ecstasy]

135mph feels great in this car..no insecurities whatsoever.

First time I felt what the car feels like after 5500 rpms..NO one is home, it just practically dies. No reason to keep going..sorta disappointing but oh well.

[camrycev6]

I have been a passenger in my Speed at 148 and it felt smooth as silk. (I was being driven by a DC police officer.) I don't know about 162, but I figure, smooth at 148 is good enough for me.

[SPEED305]

same here, and im constantly at 120-140 with our beautiful flat and straight highways!
it feels well planted.

[ericrapp]

I said it before, it looked like 162 to me but it was on the downhll straight. And yes the turbo is done, all hot air by 6000. The larger flow turbos will rectify this. Will this motor rev to 7000 or no . That is my Question. If it would the speedo would be well beyond its range

[MS3077]

I have been a passenger in my Speed at 148 and it felt smooth as silk. (I was being driven by a DC police officer.) I don't know about 162, but I figure, smooth at 148 is good enough for me.

lol

[ericrapp]

lol

Yes sir

[camrycev6]

What's funny about my comment? The fact that a cop was speeding?

[ericrapp]

What's funny about my comment? The fact that a cop was speeding?

I thought he was taking you to jail in your own car at speed and of course, the coolness that 148 is smooth.

[camrycev6]

Ah... yeah... that would have been both funny and ironic. Nope, he is an old friend of mine. He actually is one of the few DC cops who has taken all the professional / combat driving courses they have. The guy knows how to drive...

[C.A.T.A.P]

I had fun taking mind to around 150 and it was great

[hectik1]

Took it up to about 130 today. Couldn't believe how smooth it was. Seemed better at speed than my Evo.