!Cam Group Buy!

[Aricjm15]

Here is your chance to get a set of cams for your 2.0 liter Protege.
The price is set at $499 + shipping. Normal price these cams will sell for $575.
We need to sell a minimum of 5 sets.

The cams come in stage 1 and stage 2 variants.

Stage 1 is designed for a car with a mostly stock engine. It has slightly longer duration over stock and more lift. 256 degrees duration (stock is 254) and 8.79mm lift (stock is 8.18)

Stage 2 is designed for a car with an intake and full exhaust, although you can still use it on a mostly stock engine. This cam has 264 degrees of duration and has a much larger lift at 9.54mm. These would be the cams to buy to get the most power out of your NA car and they would also work well with higher compression pistons.

Lets get this rolling!

Minimum 5 sets. $499+shipping.

[MyOrangeToy]

Do you need stronger valve spring??

[Aricjm15]

Do you need stronger valve spring??

Nope!



And yes this is a Protege Garage group buy. And no it does not NEED to be posted by Ken. I'm sure Dana would have let me know if it was a problem when he Pm'd me 2 minutes ago.

[boostdprotegelx]

Nope!



And yes this is a Protege Garage group buy. And no it does not NEED to be posted by Ken. I'm sure Dana would have let me know if it was a problem when he Pm'd me 2 minutes ago.
ok cool. there's been a couple of these things flying around. in that case, good luck.

[Aricjm15]

Also these will go AWESOME with the ported heads offered by Dana at SpeedCircuit

[khaosman]

How long until these would be available? Also, what set is recommended for FI cars?

[Captain KRM P5]

they are ready to go now :) as for the FI question, i'll bring that up next time i call in

[khaosman]

they are ready to go now :) as for the FI question, i'll bring that up next time i call in

Oh man if only there were some FI ones, I'd totally buy them right so I could put 'em in before I put my motor back together.

[Moonman8]

how well would these work with the stock ecu? i'm a newbie when it comes to engine management and I often wonder about the consequences of higher degree cams without a tunable ecu.

[Captain KRM P5]

initially there is a loping idle which we are told works itself out as the ECU relearns what is going on. other than that and a few days break in you should see good gains.

[Protegebuddy]

So stage 2 Intake and exhaust cams are 264 degrees of duration??

[Captain KRM P5]

So stage 2 Intake and exhaust cams are 264 degrees of duration??

yes that is correct. those are designed for those with more mods in mind or installed, i.e. - header, exhaust, intake, etc. although they will work with a more stock setup just fine.

[03.5MSP]

I hope we can work something out for the FI guys. Can I get a stage 2 intake and a stage 1 exhaust, in case we cant work anything out for the FI guys.

[MyOrangeToy]

How much gain will we be looking at?

[mike2225]

Also these will go AWESOME with the ported heads offered by Dana at SpeedCircuit
I just ordered the stage 1 heads from dana and he told me about GB for the cams. I was curious though are these cams designed for N/A or F/I? or does it not matter?

[03.5MSP]

I just ordered the stage 1 heads from dana and he told me about GB for the cams. I was curious though are these cams designed for N/A or F/I? or does it not matter?

These are NA cams. BUT after talking to Integral Cams (the shop that makes theses cams), Steve the owner of the shop recommended that for my FI setup I should go with their stage 2 for the intake cam, and stage 1 for the exhaust cam. I also gave the full cams specs to Andrew(twilightprotege) since he knows alot about protege cams, and he told me that, the stage 1 and 2 combo looks like it will work good.

[silverpro5]

i want these so bad! its a pricey mod though....

[Captain KRM P5]

How much gain will we be looking at?

N/A we are told to expect about 20whp

[P5 Rally]

subbing

[stdntDrvr]

how do these compare to twilight's cams?

[bradicus18]

These are NA cams. BUT after talking to Integral Cams (the shop that makes theses cams), Steve the owner of the shop recommended that for my FI setup I should go with their stage 2 for the intake cam, and stage 1 for the exhaust cam. I also gave the full cams specs to Andrew(twilightprotege) since he knows alot about protege cams, and he told me that, the stage 1 and 2 combo looks like it will work good.

Oh man...I need to sell something. Who needs a kidney? Spleen? Lung?

[junya1985]

ok will these work with the stock cam gears? any idea how much hp for the FI guys?

[Captain KRM P5]

ok will these work with the stock cam gears? any idea how much hp for the FI guys?

these will work fine with the stock cam gears. as for gains, it would depend alot on what you had done already as well as the amount of boost.

[03.5MSP]

these will work fine with the stock cam gears. as for gains, it would depend alot on what you had done already as well as the amount of boost.
Ken does this mean that the FI guys can order the stage 2 intake and stage 1 exhaust combo? Instead of just stage 1 or stage 2.

[65racecoupe]

Are these regrinds?

[Aricjm15]

Are these regrinds?

No, these are made from OEM blanks

[Maxx Mazda]

So are these the ones you can get from Integral, or do the PG ones differ in some way?

[Captain KRM P5]

same as integral cams

[Pirana]

I would be interested but need to see the specs of both stage1 and 2 to make the comparison.

[Matthew1785]

Oh man...I need to sell something. Who needs a kidney? Spleen? Lung?


Haha Seriously, Will a EMS or some standalone be needed to obtain these additional gains or are they PnP? "i couldnt find any other word then drop in and go haha"

[Pirana]

You would always gain more when tuned to the specific modification. There is so much less the factory ECU can do with the mod.

[Aricjm15]

I would be interested but need to see the specs of both stage1 and 2 to make the comparison.

specs are in the first post, what else are you looking for? I can call them today and ask.

[Pirana]

Theres got to be more than that...

[03.5MSP]

Stage 2 intake
seat duration = 264 degrees
.050" duration = 224.8 degrees
Gross cam lift = .375"
Hot valve lash = .014"
Net cam lift = .361"
intake opens 20 degrees BTDC
intake closes 64 degrees ABDC


Stage 1 exhaust
seat duration = 256 degrees
.050" duration = 217 degrees
Gross cam lift = .346"
Hot valve lash = .014"
Net cam lift = .332"
exhaust opens 62 degrees BBDC
exhaust closes 14 degrees ATDC

[igdrasil]

Im into this GB, as soon as I pay for my pistons on Protege Garage (tomorrow)...I can get the $ in 4 weeks. Is this wait time ok to apply for this GB?

Ken, I need a quote for the Eibachs for the 323 1993 shipped to me, Ill send a reminder with the paypal payment.

[shabaka]

how do these compare to twilight's cams?

it's REALY hard to compare cams just off the numbers because the actual profiles can be SO diff and all the tuning set-up variables
but since you asked....


Stage 2 intake
.050" duration = 224.8 degrees
Gross cam lift = .375"
Hot valve lash = .014"


Stage 1 exhaust
.050" duration = 217 degrees
Gross cam lift = .346"
Hot valve lash = .014"


FROM the Twighlight GB.....


Intake:
Duration @ 0.050” – 221.97 degrees
Max valve lift – 0.33102”

Exhaust:
Duration @ 0.050” – 231.17 degrees
Max valve lift – 0.35276

NA overlap @ 0.050” – 11.36 degrees
FI overlap @ 0.050” – 0.64 degrees

LASH
Intake 0.010” and 0.014”
Exhaust 0.020” and 0.024”

[Captain KRM P5]

Im into this GB, as soon as I pay for my pistons on Protege Garage (tomorrow)...I can get the $ in 4 weeks. Is this wait time ok to apply for this GB?

Ken, I need a quote for the Eibachs for the 323 1993 shipped to me, Ill send a reminder with the paypal payment.

figure $220 shipped, i'll keep an eye out for the paypal payment

[murda79]

subbing

You too, eh?

[03.5MSP]

figure $220 shipped, i'll keep an eye out for the paypal payment

Ken, Im not sure if you answered this, but can the FI guys go with the stage 1 and 2 combo.

[P5 Rally]

You too, eh?

shit ya! what about you?

[Captain KRM P5]

Ken, Im not sure if you answered this, but can the FI guys go with the stage 1 and 2 combo.

i don't see why that'd be an issue

[igdrasil]

Ken, Im not sure if you answered this, but can the FI guys go with the stage 1 and 2 combo.

Why whould you want that? If you are FI, the lost torque in low rpm will be back with boost. Its the N/A guys that are feeling the loose caused by the extra flow on the exhaust.

Go stage 2 all the way!

Stage1 in exhaust and Stage2 on intake is what the N/A guys need. This way they wont loose that much torque


*Ken: money sent!

[03.5MSP]

Why whould you want that? If you are FI, the lost torque in low rpm will be back with boost. Its the N/A guys that are feeling the loose caused by the extra flow on the exhaust.

Go stage 2 all the way!

Stage1 in exhaust and Stage2 on intake is what the N/A guys need. This way they wont loose that much torque


*Ken: money sent!
I dont think we can go with stage 2, because of the overlap. Thses cams are NA cams both stage 1 and 2. So using just the stage 2 cams would have too much overlap, and you would not make any power. If they were FI cams then that would be a different story.

[stdntDrvr]

get a set of cam gears.

[igdrasil]

get a set of cam gears.

exactly...let me get this straight

MSP's with stock manifold and turbo will do better with only the intake cam if it doesnt overlap the stock exhaust cam, but we that use stage3 turbines with big A/R's and tubulars doesnt build that much backpressure...so the overlap will not affect.
We just want the long duration and a bit more lift. Thats it, we resolve the overlap issue with the cam gears.

[Pirana]

so you would adv/retard one cam?

[03.5MSP]

Instead of spending $400 for cam gears i would rather pay Integral extra $50 and have a set of custom spec cams made. This way i would save $350.

[igdrasil]

Instead of spending $400 for cam gears i would rather pay Integral extra $50 and have a set of custom spec cams made. This way i would save $350.

I didnt knew we had options...that will be good.


so you would adv/retard one cam?

Probably both, slightly

[murda79]

shit ya! what about you?

I'd like to see some dyno numbers before getting excited, we'll see.

[Crazee D]

Man, I posted in Ken's previous cam GI threads, and they never got off the ground.
Now, after 7 months of the Twilight GB I still have nothing to install and this is finally moving.
Thanks. ARGH!

[Captain KRM P5]

i'll start the list. add yourself if you are down for a set, and for which set;

1. Ken (captain krm p5) stage 1
2.
3.
4.
5.

[Captain KRM P5]

bump for interest

[bradicus18]

interested...P5 fund empty.

[kyle's protege5]

how much time we talking till they are done?

[Captain KRM P5]

these are ready to go

[Crazee D]

*sigh*

[Thekid760]

Damn I wish I had some extra money so bad right now!

[kyle's protege5]

1. Ken (captain krm p5) stage 1
2.kyle's protege 5 - stage 1 & 2 for FI
3.
4.
5.

would prefer something more for FI specifically though

[03.5MSP]

Hey what cam specs are you guys using for the Turbo Setup?

[jomoyo069]

i want stage 2 at this price but when do i have to pay by?

[Captain KRM P5]

i'll need five people to make the price stick

[parjanic]

1. Ken (captain krm p5) stage 1
2.kyle's protege 5 - stage 1 & 2 for FI
3.parjanic - stage 2
4.
5.

[cougar10ag]

where is the powerband on the stage 2 cams. is it still streetable?

[WRCprotege]

thats my issue as well.. i dont care about peek hp, i want mid range grunt and power as well if not more so than peek top end...

[cougar10ag]

well i ordered the integral performance stage 2 cams from protegegarage. i'm going home on R&R end of this month. hopefully they'll be waiting for me when i get home. and assuming a dealershi[p has new bearings in stock and i complete the break in within 2 weeks i'll let you know how they are.. BTW they will be on stock cam gears. i'm still lookin around for something a bit cheaper than $400.

[Speed3.5]

i'll need five people to make the price stick

does this include the msp's turbo edition cams as well ??(help)

[Mr.Ames]

is this GB dead? I want new cams...

[Captain KRM P5]

is this GB dead? I want new cams...

the group buy is not dead per se, but price will be going way up thanks to integral. the cams they produced were all junk and they can no longer use factory issue blanks. they have to cut new ones which drives the price way up for everyone. if there is still interest i can work a new deal for everyone. i had thought interest in this thread was fairly lackluster though.

[03.5MSP]

It sucks cause integral was using AWR blanks, but they do not have enough material on them to grind a 264 duration cam. So that is why they had to make custom cams for me and make them from scratch.

[Mr.Ames]

maybe if it was re-posted in the GB section it would get more traffic?

how much were your custom cams?

[igdrasil]

Integral Cams has raised price over $200, they were 575, now they cost over $700. Not worth it.

[Mr.Ames]

are the jdm cams worth looking at? how much are custom ones?

[Thekid760]

well i ordered the integral performance stage 2 cams from protegegarage. i'm going home on R&R end of this month. hopefully they'll be waiting for me when i get home. and assuming a dealershi[p has new bearings in stock and i complete the break in within 2 weeks i'll let you know how they are.. BTW they will be on stock cam gears. i'm still lookin around for something a bit cheaper than $400.

How are the cams? did you ever get them and have them installed?

[Protegebuddy]

Well it's been a while, GB still available?? I finally have money to spend on my car.

[djarkitek]

oh man...i'm planning on going fi but want to ge tthe most out of this n/a..i'll sub this and debate with myself

[Protegebuddy]

Well if these are still available....

1. Ken (captain krm p5) stage 1
2.kyle's protege 5 - stage 1 & 2 for FI
3.parjanic - stage 2
4. Protegebuddy - Stage 2
5.

[cougar10agREDUX]

How are the cams? did you ever get them and have them installed?

hey yeah sorry i havn't been on in a while. i changed my email address months ago and the forum decided to limit my account so i couldn't do anything but read even tho i used the activation link. and i just now made a new account... no i havn't gotten them. still waiting. me being deployed doesn't help any either.

[the_jaf]

Can this be resurrected?

[jammypwnzor]

lets do another GB... are these integral or jdm cams?

[cougar10agREDUX]

Just an update,

I ordered Integral cams back in June 07 through Ken at Protegegarage. He informed me the price went up because Integral said they were having some problems with their cast iron cams, so they had to switch to steel billet cams. This was not a problem for me and went ahead and okayed the order assuming they already had the cams in stock. I was hoping to get them in time to install for when i went home on leave in July. But the cams did not ship. In July 07, I emailed Steve at Integral and asked for an update. he told me about the change to the steel billets and was waiting for a batch to get back from the heat treaters. Then they had to test the cams. he estimated it would be 3-4 weeks to ship. Well a few months ago i decided to go ahead and turbo my car instead of waiting longer down the road, so i emailed Ken and asked if it would be possible to change my order from stage 2 NA profiled cams to stage 2 turbo cams. He told me it would not be a problem. On 5 March 08, i asked for another status update and Steve let me know he got the order change from Ken and that they just got a new batch of protege cams back from the heat treaters and my stage 2 turbo cams would ship the next day, which they did. Tracking says they have been delivered.

so 9 months later i finally got the cams. if anyone is going to purchase a set of cams i advise you to email Steve at Integral (steve@integralcams.com) and see how long it will take to ship. he has been very helpful, giving lots of information and has responded quickly to my emails. Ken has been very helpful with keeping me up to speed best he could since it was out of his hands, props for putting up with all my constant nagging about the cams, haha.

[the_jaf]

Thanks for the heads up. Did you install the cams? How did you like it?

[NEBoosted]

I would also like to know how they are...I will need cams down the road and these look like the best option out there.

[cougar10agREDUX]

No, I'm still overseas. I'll be back stateside in a month. Hopefully i'll have my hiboost kit in may. so when i install the kit i'm gonna throw the cams in. i'll try to get a before and after dyno of the cams after i street tune. then fine tune it and adjust the cam timing on a dyno.

[2.0t03speed]

so umm yea lets get a group buy going for the integral's i need a set of 268's for my car

[the_jaf]

I emailed Steve at Integral and gave a little bit of info about the cams:

We got a batch of billets back from the heat treater a couple of weeks ago so it would only take us 3 - 4 days to finish grind a set to whatever profiles you want. The cost is $743 for the new CNC steel billets plus $15 ground shipping within the US for $758 total (same as if you go through ProtegeGarage.) The cost is the same for whichever profiles you want. I don't have any dyno data for the cams but there are a couple of differences I can point out. The stage 1 cams will have a good idle. The Stage 2 cams will have a lumpy idle (you'll know there are cams under the hood).

You certainly have the rest of the equipment to compliment the stage 2 cams (referring to header/intake/exhaust). If you live / drive in an uncongested area where you can drive it up in the revs, the stage 2 will be more fun. If you live in an area with a lot of bad traffic, the stage 1 cams will give you much better driveability in the lower rpm band. The stage 1 cams work with the stock springs to 7500 rpm and the stage 2 cams work with the stock springs to 7800 rpm. They are both designed to bolt-in just like stock cams. You just need to check the lash.

[2.0t03speed]

good info im going ot email him tonight to ask him some questions

[the_jaf]

More info:

"By lumpy idle, I mean it idles like a race car. A lumpy idle won't hurt the engine. I haven't got any feedback as to whether it causes a check engine light to come on with the stage 2 cams.

The stage 2 cams will make more horsepower than the stage 1 but the stage 2 gives up a little torque at 2000 - 3000 rpm compared to stage 1. Cam selection is always a tradeoff between if you want more power up top (stage 2) or more mid-range torque (stage 1)."

[the_jaf]

I wonder what kind of sound a stage 2 cam will put out. Like if the engine will make that "da da da da da da" drag race car sound?

[cougar10agREDUX]

this was a link in a twiggy cam threadvon here. dunno if it's custom spec or the regular spec twiggy cams. but the stage 2 integrals have more lift and duration than these. if i'm wrong someone please correct me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2rliOtwhy0

[jimmysuite]

im pretty sure the twiggy cams have more lift, duration, and overlap than the cams you are going to get from integral. The stage 2's from integral will sound similar but slightly less agressive.

[cougar10agREDUX]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123643916

"twiggy cams - ie what you're getting!

intake : 252deg @ 0.003" lift, 8.763mm lift in total
exhaust : 254deg @ 0.003" lift, 9.017mm lift in total"

Integral stage 2, 264deg, 9.52mm lift, note that the 264 is seat duration.

[Maxx Mazda]

Wow the Integrals are quite a bit beefier than the Twiggy sticks...

[cougar10agREDUX]

well i do not know the duration of the integrals @ .003 lift. i'll shoot steve an email asking for the specs.

[cougar10agREDUX]

haha wow awesome, steve did one even better he pblished all the durations i asked for on the website! they now have a stage 3

enjoy
http://www.integralcams.com/protege.htm

kinda cool i had a hand in this. haha

[2.0t03speed]

and they have the seat durations at .003

2.0 Litre Mechanical Lifter Cam Profiles

Seat Duration (.014") Seat Duration + .003" .050" Duration Gross Cam Lift
Stock (intake / exhaust) 254° / 237°
242.2° / 226.7° 214.8° / 198.7° .342"/.322" (8.69 / 8.18 mm)
Stage 1 256° 249.4° 217.0° . 346" (8.79 mm)
Stage 2 264° 257.4° 224.8° .375" (9.52 mm)
Stage 2.5 268° 261.4° 227.9° .375" (9.52 mm)
Stage 3 272° 265.4° 232.1° .385" (9.78 mm)

[cougar10agREDUX]

i guess he got tired of the emails asking the same questions. i really like the way Integral does business. now i can't wait to get home and check out my stage 2 turbo cams and see how they perform.

[2.0t03speed]

ok so the twiggys are more in line with the stage 2 cams

[jimmysuite]

cam info shows 221 deg intake and 230 deg exhaust at 0.050 lift
240/251 at 0.025 or going the other way 196/205 at 0.100

this would equate to what might be advertised as about a 270/280 degree hi-perf cam!

lobe lifts .342 in. INT / .374 in. EXH (gross not net)


From what i can tell, the intake twiggy cam looks to be a stage 1.5 ish (on integrals scale) and the exahust cam is a stage 2-2.5 i will try and get more info on this.

Its great to see agressive cams readily available for our cars!

[ForceFed]

Well..Its nice that he published his numbers...WHat are the stockers numbers?

And god damn..$800 for a set of cams....I thought the twiggy's were bad.

[LordWorm]

Wow the Integrals are quite a bit beefier than the Twiggy sticks...

without comparing both COMPLETE profiles (full cam doctor specs), its difficult to say.... I know the ramp rates on the twiggy cams are pretty brutal (that is, they open VERY quickly, and hover around massive lift for a good percentage of the complete circle...).

Ramp rate is often the "forgotten" component, but it gives you a more complete picture.

I think jimmysuite hit the nail on the head - intake is probably not quite as brutal, but twiggy exhaust is more so.... Both cams will probably achieve simillar results....the twiggy cams were specced up and built by one of the best cam manufacturers in the business (he was told to go to them by a bunch of other cam builders....and infact, when it came time for the american cam shop to fix up the journals, they asked the place that made the twiggy cams to pay them with camshafts, not cash......which i spose says something).

CrazeeD got a cam doctor done on his set of twiggy cams - need someone to doctor the integral cams, then some true comparisons can be made..

[the_jaf]

this was a link in a twiggy cam threadvon here. dunno if it's custom spec or the regular spec twiggy cams. but the stage 2 integrals have more lift and duration than these. if i'm wrong someone please correct me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2rliOtwhy0

Is that the sound of the cams? Or more of that pipe?

[justanothermp5]

wow thats a weird place for a dump pipe, normally comes out behind the wheel, not in front right?
but i would also like to kno if that was the cams or just the dump pipe making the sound

[the_jaf]

That's just really loud...

[LordWorm]

Hey thats my car :P

Its a noisy pipe (race use only) - cams give it the lump/stutter.... and they are regular twiggy cams, yes.... run of the mill, every day garden variety twiggy cams...

reason it exits in front of the wheel... made the pipe easier to fab - just comes off the mani and right angles out the side...

[cougar10agREDUX]

Well..Its nice that he published his numbers...WHat are the stockers numbers?

And god damn..$800 for a set of cams....I thought the twiggy's were bad.


stock -
IN: 242.2 @ 0.003" 8.69mm gross lift
EX: 226.7 @0.003" 8.18mm gross lift

[03.5MSP]

For the MSP/turbo guys looking into the cams I would say got with the Integral 2.5 cams. Getting a 272 intake cam will hurt your low-end torque,and I would only recommend the 272/272 combo if you going to the using the car for racing and higher rpms. A 268/268 combo will be great.

[03.5MSP]

For you guys who are considering getting the Integral cams, this is what you are going to be getting.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/833/img1423wr6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9385/img1424rg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[the_jaf]

Very nice, are those yours?

[03.5MSP]

Yeah they look alot nicer in person, and I'm hopeing they perform even better.

[the_jaf]

When are you going to install them? Are those Stage 1, 2 or 3?

[mike2225]

For you guys who are considering getting the Integral cams, this is what you are going to be getting.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/833/img1423wr6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9385/img1424rg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Dino just put my integral cams in, im waiting on cam gears then the dyno!!(rockon)

[the_jaf]

Yes make sure you post your results

[the_jaf]

Dino just put my integral cams in, im waiting on cam gears then the dyno!!(rockon)

Were you able to get a dyno result?

Yeah they look alot nicer in person, and I'm hopeing they perform even better.

Have you installed them yet?

[mike2225]

[QUOTE=the_jaf;3777725]Were you able to get a dyno result?


Not Yet i might have an issue with my cam gears, i need to figure that out before i get to the dyno

[the_jaf]

How have the cams treated you, feel significant gains?

[cougar10agREDUX]

got back to the states monday, got home yesterday and looked at all my goodies, the cams look amazing