what if? should I have gotten a ms6?

[MS3Chik]

awd..i was thinking today..should i have gotten a speed 6..?
i dunno..more expenvie..i lke the hatch look better

[Kosh]

speed 3 definitely! I love the hatch and the price is extra nice :)

[Hikaru9]

Hatch all the way!

Besides being practical, I adore its youthful appearance. ^_^v

[justa4banger]

MS3 all the way baby.........
IF you want AWD and the pep of a MS3 buy a SUBY.
I like the MS6 but the price can't justify the lack of oommph compared to our cars.

[MS3Chik]

true true

[chuyler1]

Price isn't that much different when you consider dealers are unloading 06 MS6s for below invoice minus $4750 in incentives. That brings the price of a MS6 GT to $23-24K (before TTL). How much are people paying for MS3s? I'm guessing at least $20-22K right?

For that extra money you get quite a bit more than just AWD. Compare GT to GT and you'll get heated seats, heated mirrors, one-touch up/down windows, power driver's seat, side and curtain airbags, keyless entry/ignition 4yr warranty, and more. However, you lose cargo space and the versitility of the hatch. The added weight of the MS6 may make it feel less sporty but the AWD keeps all that power on the ground.

Now jump to August or so when dealers are selling 07 MS6s without incentives and the MS3s have incentives on them...I think the price advantage of the MS3 will outweigh some of the creature comforts the MS6 provides. My point being...don't buy a MS3 now if you truely want one. Instead, watch the incentives and pounce when the price is right. Trust me, it will drop. They couldn't get rid of MSPs and MSMs and now MS6s are a hard sell. The MS3 is getting a positive market response but by the end of the summer they'll stop selling like the rest of the mazdaspeeds. Once everyone has one that wants one....the price must go down to make it appealing to non-enthusiasts.

[CoachZed]

I went to test drive a speed3 and a speed6 at my dealer and didn't get any farther than sitting in the speed6 before I knew I couldn't live with it every day. The interior is really atrocious--it looks like Mazda made the dash from recycled milk jugs.

Add that to the extra weight and "kind of" AWD, and it was an easy decision for me. If I wanted a bigger AWD sedan it would be the Legacy GT, not the speed6 </flamesuit on>

[elderlycoffee]

speed 3 is faster...

[dcomiskey]

The MS3 is leagues more fun to drive. The 6 almost put me to sleep. You did the right thing and the 3 is much more utilitarian, since it's a hatch. That's one of the things that sold me.

[chuyler1]

"Kind of" AWD? Exactly what does that mean? I can atest to "snow mode" kicking in when needed. It also has "sport mode" which supposedly will kick in when you are on the track. I have never been at a lost for traction so I'm not sure that I can accept this argument from someone who never drove one. However, I have never driven it on the track nor do I intend to...so whether the added weight is justified I couldn't tell.

Interior style is personal. Its not the best, but neither is the MS3. However, it is comfortable and everything is layed out in easy to reach locations.

[chuyler1]

speed 3 is faster...
AFAIK it is pretty much a driver's game. The 3 has the weight advantage while the 6 has the traction and added HP advantage. 0-60 the 6 should win, 5-60 (not using the clutch for 1st) the 3 might win. Around the track, well I don't know but I'm sure it is still a close call.

[CoachZed]

"Kind of" AWD? Exactly what does that mean?

100% FWD until slippage occurs, with a maximum 50% rear bias as well as the (unconfirmed) rumors that it incapable of rear bias at high steering angles. In effect, it's a less sophisticated Haldex system, which is already not that great.

[chuyler1]

Well I guess the "kinda AWD" really depends on what your reason for having it in the first place is. If you want AWD for autox racing then the MS6 isn't the car for you. A Legacy GT or something smaller is a better option...and while you are at it, you don't need any of the creature comforts.

If foul weather stability and control is what you are after, the MS6 AWD works just fine and is a major advange over a standard 6 w/o AWD.

[B1GHAM]

100% FWD until slippage occurs, with a maximum 50% rear bias as well as the (unconfirmed) rumors that it incapable of rear bias at high steering angles. In effect, it's a less sophisticated Haldex system, which is already not that great.

ok a few things. the AWD system is realtime. meaning that the system will divert power if wheel slippage is expected, not when it occurs. biggest difference being that the system will send power to the rear wheels before slippage occurs. A big plus as the engagement is not noticable and will not wait for a dangerous situation to occur.

I will refute the rumor as well seeing as Ive taken the speed 6 through corners and had the rear come out from behind me with mild throttle modulation - shouldnt be possible if there is no rear bias @ extreme steering angles...

I dont know where youre getting the fact that the Haldex system is not that great? Its what audi/VW have used for years (otherwise known as quatro/4motion). Its proven reliable and more than capable as an AWD system. Though not as complex/customizable (in stock form) as subaru's I wouldnt discount it as being not that great. I can name countless other AWD systems which in comparison, SUCK.

oh and chuyler - The MS6 outhandled/outperformed the Legacy GT Spec B in slalom, skidpad, and braking tests... so I wouldnt call that the better choice. You also get a sunroof and advance keyless entry/start (keycard) over the GT comparisons of MS3 GT/MS6 GT.

[CoachZed]

ok a few things. . .

1) The AWD system can predict or extrapolate based on current data, but it can't see into the future. Delays and response lag are inevitable. Haldex VWs and Audi TTs have been doing this for years.

2) Even on a FWD car, it is entirely possible to get the rear to hang out. Drop throttle and throttle modulation can put the rear out on a well balanced car regardless of drivetrain.

3) Haldex is *not* necessarily quattro. Any AWD VW with a transversely mounted engine will get the Haldex system (e.g., AWD versions of the Golf and the Mk 5 Passat, but not the Mk 4 Passat). This extends to the Audi A3 and the Audi TT. The AWD system that Audi is legendary for, however, is the *Torsen* system that longitudinally-engined Audis (A/S/RS4, A/S/RS6, A/S8) get. This is not a FWD biased system. The Haldex AWD system is widely regarded as the inferior version of "quattro."

If all you're worried about is straight line traction in inclement weather, buy good sets of summer and winter tires and you won't have to deal with weight and parasitic loss.

[ms6utah]

I've got both the ms3 and ms6 and the ms3 is winner hands down on speed but the jumping off of the ine i get from the awd in the ms6 is insane. tried a wrx didn't like it too much

[trees]

I went to test drive a speed3 and a speed6 at my dealer and didn't get any farther than sitting in the speed6 before I knew I couldn't live with it every day. The interior is really atrocious--it looks like Mazda made the dash from recycled milk jugs.

Add that to the extra weight and "kind of" AWD, and it was an easy decision for me. If I wanted a bigger AWD sedan it would be the Legacy GT, not the speed6 </flamesuit on>

Are you sayin that the speed3s interior is better then the speed6s. If so pass what ever you are smokin this way...

[B1GHAM]

1) The AWD system can predict or extrapolate based on current data, but it can't see into the future. Delays and response lag are inevitable. Haldex VWs and Audi TTs have been doing this for years.

2) Even on a FWD car, it is entirely possible to get the rear to hang out. Drop throttle and throttle modulation can put the rear out on a well balanced car regardless of drivetrain.

3) Haldex is *not* necessarily quattro. Any AWD VW with a transversely mounted engine will get the Haldex system (e.g., AWD versions of the Golf and the Mk 5 Passat, but not the Mk 4 Passat). This extends to the Audi A3 and the Audi TT. The AWD system that Audi is legendary for, however, is the *Torsen* system that longitudinally-engined Audis (A/S/RS4, A/S/RS6, A/S8) get. This is not a FWD biased system. The Haldex AWD system is widely regarded as the inferior version of "quattro."

If all you're worried about is straight line traction in inclement weather, buy good sets of summer and winter tires and you won't have to deal with weight and parasitic loss.


2) yes I know you can (as I have done that very thing on my fwd MSP). Im speaking entirely of rear bias rear wheel spin. On dry surfaces no less. By throttle modulation Im talking of specifically taking the vehicle @ roughly 40 MPH in second gear through a turn. Where it will normally plant, throttle modulation will allow the rear wheels to over power and swing the vehicle around. Im not simply speaking of throwing the rear of the vehicle around simply by entering a corner too fast and oversteering proportionately as on a FWD vehicle.

3) I stand corrected. I completely forgot that the torsen system was used with most Audis... You are right

[B1GHAM]

I've got both the ms3 and ms6 and the ms3 is winner hands down on speed but the jumping off of the ine i get from the awd in the ms6 is insane. tried a wrx didn't like it too much


I havent fully tested the vehicles side by side, however as stated in another thread 70-120 pulls were visually identical. We didnt do any official Dig/roll runs so I can speak fully for the capability of both vehicles from a true statistical standpoint.

[chuyler1]

We can argue this all day long...but even though the two cars are close in performance, I really don't see them being in the same class at all. The MS3 is a lightweight fast tuner car. The MS6 is a luxury sport AWD sedan. We can try and convince each other that each has a little of the other but as long as you are driving a Mazda, I really don't care.

[redheaddstpch1d]

Wow, you Speed 6 owners are a lil jumpy! Hey guys, at least we are all drivin Mazdas right? :D

[justa4banger]

MS6 suck (enguard)

J/K folks........

I almost bought a MS6 (06 SPORT model) for about 1k less than the new MS3 but the wife and i both like the MS3 better for the comfort and design, Though my wife does hate the ass of the MS3 (egg shaped she says)
I think the seats in the MS3 are better than the MS6 IMO.

Really what hurt was the fact i was afraid GAS mileageand overal maintence would suck badly and well i like the fact the MS3 is lighter and handles well. You can feel the extra weight in a MS6.
AWD is nice but my wifes SUV is AWD, so i figure in bad weather she can go play bumper cars with it instead of my MS3.

[amp]

speed 3 is faster...
really... its not the tell all for how quick a car is but..
13.5 quarter on stock trim for a speed6 aint too shabby... has an ms3 hit these times yet..

[acidbbg]

AWD>FWD.

Which car is faster and handles better..well it should be obvious the mazdaspeed3 with it's better power to weight ratio. But for me the choice was clear when came time to decide between mazdaspeed3 and the mazdaspeed6.

Charlie

[SwampAss]

I drove both, and contemplated both. I could have gotten the MS6 cheaper (by a few $100) than my speed 3.

The 6 looks better IMO. The 3 was more of what I was looking for.

[Newf]

I really really almost waited for a 3. Only because I thought the ms6 would be something I couldn't never afford. But...

The MS3 would cost me about 100 bucks more then the deal I got on my 6. Plus, I live winter wonder land, so AWD was the obvious winner. The MS3 would have been a beast in our winters here. With the woman driving the car often, a 260hp fwd card + snow= death. With the 6, she gets around in the snow with ease. Next, I didn't want another "cute" hatchback, been there done that, and the 3 feels cramped to me. The seats are nice but I'm wondering how long they'll last after experiencing my seats in my old MSP. Seats that are 2 different materials have a way of not lasting. No doubt the MS6 is the heavier car, but don't let the weight fool you. Over real roads, you know those roads with those annoying things called bumps, the 6 has just enough play in the suspension to handle real life conditions without losing grip, I love it. It is a heavier feel in the steering and coming from the super nimble MSP it took time for me to adjust. Honesty, my MSP would skip and jitter over bumps that my MS6 takes with ease and that has nothing to do with AWD. On a track, obviously things are different. But there are no perfect roads where I live, and high power FWD cars are a handfull. Now that I have owned a AWD car, I'm never going back to FWD again. The MS3 is an amazing car, but the two are so different from each other it really is 2 different types of buyers.

As for the false statement "kind of AWD", you could not be more misinformed. Yeah the soobie's are more advanced, but I can get my rear wheels out any time I want on snow using no tricks at all, just mash gas peddle and turn wheel. That alone indicates this 100% FWD while turning bullshit that gets flung around here is just that, bullshit. I think people need to stop reading forums and go drive the darn things themselves. The AWD in the MS6 is extremely effective in slippery conditions. I have never felt more safe, and had more traction in snow in any previous car or suv over the years. And folks, I KNOW SNOW, heck we get it 6 months a year. Heck, we still have snow up to my shoulders here :( -5 C here today.

[chuyler1]

Well said Newf. I have experienced everything you said. I have driven many cars in the snow and even with the slick stock tires the MS6 kept me moving where other cars might give up. About the snow though...its always good to remind people that AWD only gets you moving. When it comes to stopping, your weight, tires, and abs are what help the most. So if a MS3 and MS6 were both equipped with equivalent tires, the MS3 would have safer stopping power due to its weight....but that obviously doesn't matter if you can't get the car out of your driveway when there is 6"+ of snow on the ground.

[acidbbg]

I took the car out yesterday in the rain..and made a sharp right turn..onto the main road..normally in the rain..if I gave any gas in my old mazda p5 i would spin tires..and that was with OEM & aftermarket. Than in my maxima..i would spin slightly...but in the speed6...it just grabed..and i was up at 4-5k before shifting into 2nd....and it was sweet...AWD rocks..

[acidbbg]

Well said Newf. I have experienced everything you said. I have driven many cars in the snow and even with the slick stock tires the MS6 kept me moving where other cars might give up. About the snow though...its always good to remind people that AWD only gets you moving. When it comes to stopping, your weight, tires, and abs are what help the most. So if a MS3 and MS6 were both equipped with equivalent tires, the MS3 would have safer stopping power due to its weight....but that obviously doesn't matter if you can't get the car out of your driveway when there is 6"+ of snow on the ground.

(mswerd)

[Newf]

AWD can certainly create a false sense of safety as well. Like you said, it only gets you moving, and has nothing to do with stopping. Killer is, it gets you moving so much more quickly, and you may find yourself going faster then you should. Even more so when the car is quiet, and you don't notice that you are doing 20 above the posted speed limit!
The weight has another advantage in the snow as well. I found my MSP to be too light, like it wanted to float above the now rather then dig into it. It would slip sideways on even the easiest of corners with no gas applied, and hitting the brakes didn't always straighten it out. Starting off always resulted in wheel spin in my MSP. With the MS6, it weight certainly pushes the car through slushy/deep snow better, but once she does slip, the weight is obvious.

[ms6utah]

my ms3 was almost the same price as my ms6.... i don't know about other states but here they're adding $5,000 to the sticker price because of the ms3 demand

[chuyler1]

Wait 4 months and you'll be banging your head on the wall. The price for the MS3 will go down...way down.

[justa4banger]

AWD is Nice and if you are in a climate where it has incliment weather 6 months of the year, you should buy a car w/ AWD. Down in texas where ice happens for 1 day a year, AWD isn't as important.

MAybe if i lived up north i would opted for AWD.

All AWD are effiecient and do what they have to. Hell my wifes Bravada has AWD and i can get it sideways and spin all 4 tires in crappy weather. I like the MS6, but it wasn't for me or the wife.

I will say MS6 owners seem to get REAL defensive about their cars.... why is that ???(poke)

J/K gents.....

[matsuda]

awd..i was thinking today..should i have gotten a speed 6..?
i dunno..more expenvie..i lke the hatch look better
Apples and oranges.

Do you want to make your decision based on someone else's personal preferences?

[acidbbg]

It all comes down to preference..as mentioned many times...I prefer AWD for when it rains or snows...over any FWD. The p5 used to spin tires..even when in stock form...i driven msp's too..and their fwd is just as bad..so much wheel hop u feel like tranny gonna come loose.

-C

[Magus]

Of course the P5 will spin the tires, it has an open diff. The Mazdaspeed 3 has a limited slip diff. that elminates the issue. The only thing you need for the Mazdaspeed3 is some good winter tires. I will mention, that my p5 does great in the snow and only really has issue getting started. Though once it gets moving, it does pretty good. I personally would only choose a car like the Mazdaspeed6 if I planned on getting more power with mods. With mods you could over come the extra weight and make it a faster car. Do not forget that you could always make the car lighter with getting a light weight battery, carbon fiber hood, and maybe a carbon fiber trunk if they make it.

Really it comes down to needs and personal wants.

[camrycev6]

I personally didn't like the look of the MS6. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it is ugly -- just a basic 4-dour sedan. They (MS3 vs. MS6) are fairly comparible in terms of performance, and I felt the hatchback was more practical as well. I have had many a sedan / coupe in my time (and one hatchback), and you just can't compare the two to a hatchback when you need to haul anything more than a trunk full of groceries.

[SeanMSIII]

Apples and oranges.

Do you want to make your decision based on someone else's personal preferences?

I'll echo the echoes: personal preference is indeed the numero uno reason to go with one over the other. I owned the 6 for a good nine months and then had the 3 for about a month before I managed to sell the 6. The last time I drove the 6 (to the place I sold it to) I couldn't believe how much quieter it was than the 3 and how much it isolated road and engine noise from the driver. It was so clearly a much better mannered car than the 3. The 3 has a very sporty feel and sound during every second of your drive. The MS6, you mainly notice it's sportiness only when you stomp on the gas.

You can best summarize the difference b/t the two cars by the target cars each had in the design process. The 3's target was the WRX. The 6 was designed to go up against . . . nope, not the Evo or STi, although many mistakenly think this, but the comparable BMW and Audi models. You can really tell this when you drive the 3 for awhile and then hop in the 6.

I still miss the awesome, claw-footed launch and power delivery you get with the 6's AWD. But I personally prefer, the lighter, noisier, sportier feel of the 3, even it means having to put up with some bad road manners in the form of wheelspin, torque steer, and (worst of all) occasionally nasty wheel hop.

Nuff said?

[MS6mike]

well it depends what you want, the speed 6 can get out of the hole faster AWD, but its added power train loss and extra weight will steal tons of 000 mph, me for example love to race in the track, so awd works for me, if you like to have a faster car in the streets the MS3 is the way to go !

[camrycev6]

Wait 4 months and you'll be banging your head on the wall. The price for the MS3 will go down...way down.

I guess I just noticed this post...what do you mean by way down? If you are talking about more than $500, I am curious on how you came up with your conclusion. Cars that are even moderately popular (certainly the MS3 falls into this category) do not drop the MSRP at all over time unless something seriously wrong is found with the car, or they are not selling at all. (Like the Chrysler Crossfire.) Even that takes quite a bit of time to happen. The first thing they do is offer dealer incentives and cash back programs. They will also offer really low dealer financing to move them off the lots. The LAST thing they want to do is lower the price....

[chuyler1]

They will lower the price when the 08 models it showroom floors. It happens every year and dealers don't want the speed cars sitting around...they simply don't sell to the average customer (no automatic no deal pal).

I have seen the MSP, the MSM, and the MS6 come and go. I could have gotten a MSP for the price of my P5 if I had waited for the right moment. People paid sticker for the MS6 when it came out. 32K! I waited a year and just as the dealer stock was begninning to dwindle I picked one up for 25K. So if you can wait...I suggest at least holding off for a while and keep track of vin numbers using the mazdaUSA website so you know how long it takes for dealer stock to disappear. Once you see that cars are sitting on the lot, make your move. But of course, if you simply MUST have a certain color or option you will want to jump sooner rather than later.

Its plain and simple. The MS3 is a niche car with a niche market. A young fan base of people that know how to drive stick shift. Once everyone in the niche has one there will be plenty left over. Plus, I don't expect the MS3 to stay at the top of the popularity list for long. Something will come along to bump it off the top of the mountain.

[Karma_hunden]

dang, the whole Speed6 battalion jumped in here LOL. At ease boys.


We already had a brush on another thread, lets not do it here.

[79_Limited]

I agree with 3 is a lot more fun to drive. The 6 steering just did not do it for me.

[MS6mike]

is opinion wise only !