High Octane 93 Gas for Protege

[Dino1956]

A guy at the dealership advised to every once in a while, to fill my Protege 1.6 DX Auto with High Octane Gas (Premium). He says it helps to prevent Carbon Buildup in EGR Valve. Does this sound right ? What do you guys think ?

[protojason]

I call bs.

I'm not turbo'd nor the end all of all things automotive, but things i've read generally state that premium is a waste unless your application requires higher octane to prevent pre-ignition/pinging.

However, I recently used that BG 44k stuff, supposed to clean up things like carbon build up. When i purchased it, the guy before the counter stated that you could just use techron instead. (start filling up at cheveron?)

my 2 cents.


Jason

[jeg0024]

You can use high octane about one tank every oil change, thats what I do. The higher octane the cleaner(and faster) the gas burns. It will help remove carbon buildup on your injectors and internals as well as get rid of any slight knocking you may have. Plus you get to run your car hard for a tank lol.

[djarkitek]

i just 91 constantly and 93 after an oil change..but i ALWAYS run my car hard so yea...

[jimmybrite]

It's good every now and then also, If I run it smooth I get slightly better gas mileage too.But I never run it smooth, I can't.

[GhostMercury]

its a equals out to be a dollar more when you fill up the tank about. i dont see why people make such a big deal about it. I use premium for any car because i personally believe it is better for the car and i get alot better gas mileage

thats my .02

[TheMAN]

A guy at the dealership advised to every once in a while, to fill my Protege 1.6 DX Auto with High Octane Gas (Premium). He says it helps to prevent Carbon Buildup in EGR Valve. Does this sound right ? What do you guys think ?

it is true
in my experience, shitty gas and/or low octane gas has caused carbon build up in various engines

on the 2.0 protege engine, it has responded positively on 93 octane... it DOES run better than regular gas... I have looked at the ignition timing myself and the ECU does bump the timing up when you use higher octane gas

[StealthWyvern]

You can use high octane about one tank every oil change, thats what I do. The higher octane the cleaner(and faster) the gas burns. It will help remove carbon buildup on your injectors and internals as well as get rid of any slight knocking you may have. Plus you get to run your car hard for a tank lol.


So what your saying jeg is that my engine should be pretty samn clean on the insides due to my ass running nothing but 93 for the last 26k miles!

[Dino1956]

it is true
in my experience, shitty gas and/or low octane gas has caused carbon build up in various engines

on the 2.0 protege engine, it has responded positively on 93 octane... it DOES run better than regular gas... I have looked at the ignition timing myself and the ECU does bump the timing up when you use higher octane gasAgain, I have the 1.6 Engine, Auto Transmission. From what you guys are saying. I had to put Premium in my Cadillac, so I'm use to the slight higher cost. From the above posts, I get the feeling I should not use High Octane ALL the time. That's what the dealership told me. I was at dealership for a CEL code PO402 "EGR Flow Excessive". So I figure there must be some Carbon build up. Of course they suggest taking the Intake Manifold and cleaning it out from there. That's a nice $300. for them. I'm not doing that. And from what I see on here, it could be Carbon stuck in the EGR Valve. I know nothing about cars, only what I read on here and through other sites. Thanks. More input on these subjects is surely welcome.

[Kooldino]

You could also use an injector cleaner instead.

[Dino1956]

You could also use an injector cleaner instead.Which is a good Injector Cleaner?

[jeg0024]

So what your saying jeg is that my engine should be pretty samn clean on the insides due to my ass running nothing but 93 for the last 26k miles!

Well yeah, you run cleaner gas you engine will stay cleaner:)

[jeg0024]

You could also use an injector cleaner instead.

You could, but isnt it just cheaper to fill up with the good stuff? I use to use some gumout or stp injector cleaner(with jet fuel!) and the 93 octane lol.

[DaltonsProtege]

Higher Octane gas has more alcohol, which burns hotter. The outcome is that it burns away carbon on the valves, pistons, in the EGR valve, and the 02 sensor. The reason it was suggested to only run it once in a while was because some cars do not respond well to prolonged use of higher octane. Also, pour in tank injector cleaner is basicly useless, take it to Wal-Mart and have TLE do an injection service for $20.

[jeg0024]

Higher Octane gas has more alcohol, which burns hotter. The outcome is that it burns away carbon on the valves, pistons, in the EGR valve, and the 02 sensor. The reason it was suggested to only run it once in a while was because some cars do not respond well to prolonged use of higher octane. Also, pour in tank injector cleaner is basicly useless, take it to Wal-Mart and have TLE do an injection service for $20.

+1:)

[Dino1956]

Higher Octane gas has more alcohol, which burns hotter. The outcome is that it burns away carbon on the valves, pistons, in the EGR valve, and the 02 sensor. The reason it was suggested to only run it once in a while was because some cars do not respond well to prolonged use of higher octane. Also, pour in tank injector cleaner is basicly useless, take it to Wal-Mart and have TLE do an injection service for $20.Is it because of the high alcohol content, that some cars don't respond well ? Could it cause Engine trouble ?

[TheMAN]

uhh no... gasoline NEVER had alcohol in it (as an octane modifier) and with the recent use of ethanol, they're ALL 10% regardless of octane unless you get the higher percentage shit (written ON the pump) for those flexfuel cars

[SlowPro98]

Which is a good Injector Cleaner?

I use Lucas injector cleaner/fuel stabilizer.

[patsfan4life]

tahts injector clearer. For Air Intake cleaner I use CRC Throttle Body and Intake Cleaner. Cleans the EGR and inake. works great.

[StealthWyvern]

tahts injector clearer. For Air Intake cleaner I use CRC Throttle Body and Intake Cleaner. Cleans the EGR and inake. works great.

Where would i be able to pick up this CRC cleaner at?

[DaltonsProtege]

Regardless of what is used to raise the octane, the result is the same. Some cars do not respond well to higher octane gas because as I said, higher octane gas burns hotter. The result is that over time it will eat away at the valves and even in bad cases small holes will form in the pistons. That is generally only in REALLY pathetic cars though.

[Andrewsmc]

"Most modern cars, however, are designed to employ a specific compression ratio, a measure of how much room is available to the fuel when the piston is at the bottom and the top of the cylinder. This compression ratio—somewhere in the neighborhood of eight to one—tolerates lower octane fuels (such as regular gasoline, good old 87 octane) without knocking. "The compression ratio is fixed by the designer of the engine," Green says. "The regular fuel will burn properly and the premium fuel will burn properly and therefore there is no reason you should pay the extra money."

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanId=sa003&articleId=373086C9-E7F2-99DF-385F3705197C1D4F

[patsfan4life]

The product i'm talking about has nothing to do with raising the octaine, someone was asking about cleaning the inake or egr so i mentioned a good product. You can get it at any AutoZone or Discount Advance

[TheMAN]

"Most modern cars, however, are designed to employ a specific compression ratio, a measure of how much room is available to the fuel when the piston is at the bottom and the top of the cylinder. This compression ratio—somewhere in the neighborhood of eight to one—tolerates lower octane fuels (such as regular gasoline, good old 87 octane) without knocking. "The compression ratio is fixed by the designer of the engine," Green says. "The regular fuel will burn properly and the premium fuel will burn properly and therefore there is no reason you should pay the extra money."

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanId=sa003&articleId=373086C9-E7F2-99DF-385F3705197C1D4F

your attempt at arguing over this can't dispute the fact (just like hundreds of other naysayers like you) that our car's ECU *does* see a higher octane gas being used and does adjust for it

good day!

[jersey_emt]

The higher octane the cleaner(and faster) the gas burns.

Actually, higher octane gas burns more slowly than lower octane gas.

[Dino1956]

Regardless of what is used to raise the octane, the result is the same. Some cars do not respond well to higher octane gas because as I said, higher octane gas burns hotter. The result is that over time it will eat away at the valves and even in bad cases small holes will form in the pistons. That is generally only in REALLY pathetic cars though.So I'm thinking my car is not a "Pathetic Car". Therefore the High Octane would not hurt if I used it all the time. Correct ? I have 2000 DX 1.6 Auto Trans Protege.

[patsfan4life]

high octane is fine for our cars. i have ran 93 since i got the car 2yrs ago and the owner before me did the same. my engine runs beautifully.

[Dino1956]

high octane is fine for our cars. i have ran 93 since i got the car 2yrs ago and the owner before me did the same. my engine runs beautifully.Yea, cause I'm thinking. What's a few extra bucks every couple of weeks, if it is better for my car. Does high Octane Gas help with the Carbon Buildup on Intake Throttle & EGR ? Thanks.

[jeg0024]

Actually, higher octane gas burns more slowly than lower octane gas.

Well I never get good mileage with it? lol

[GhostMercury]

i always get better gas milage in any car on 92-93 octane

[jeg0024]

i always get better gas milage in any car on 92-93 octane

I must always end up pushing it harder with 93 in there or something.

[StealthWyvern]

I must always end up pushing it harder with 93 in there or something.


lol keep your foot out of it and that will help out a lot.

[DaltonsProtege]

Actually higher octane does give you better gas mileage, what i meant by it burning faster is that it combusts at a quicker rate.

[Sharki]

i use the red line fuel and Nos injectors evey 4 weeks. and i havent really noticed any big change. I would like to have my injectors cleaned out at a dealer, but i probally wont feel any thing different, but that just me. i want to keep my car in tip top form.

[jersey_emt]

Actually higher octane does give you better gas mileage, what i meant by it burning faster is that it combusts at a quicker rate.

That's what I meant too. Higher octane gas combusts at a slower rate than lower octane gas.

[jersey_emt]

Bottom line, unless your car requires it due to forced induction or advanced timing, or if it is pinging with regular, 'upgrading' to mid-grade or premium is NOT an upgrade. You are wasting money, and will probably get worse gas mileage.

[jeg0024]

Bottom line, unless your car requires it due to forced induction or advanced timing, or if it is pinging with regular, 'upgrading' to mid-grade or premium is NOT an upgrade. You are wasting money, and will probably get worse gas mileage.

+1
Thats what I thought...?

[ncsukingpin]

Higher Octane gas has more alcohol, which burns hotter. The outcome is that it burns away carbon on the valves, pistons, in the EGR valve, and the 02 sensor. The reason it was suggested to only run it once in a while was because some cars do not respond well to prolonged use of higher octane. Also, pour in tank injector cleaner is basicly useless, take it to Wal-Mart and have TLE do an injection service for $20.

What is a "TLE" injection service, what does it do, and how does it help? Because I think I need one.(eyeballs)

[jimmybrite]

I guess injector cleaning? even with our trusty fuel filters there's always crap getting in the fuel, so it might not atomise properly

[ncsukingpin]

Anyone else know any more about the TLE, or if it is worth it?

[Dino1956]

Bottom line, unless your car requires it due to forced induction or advanced timing, or if it is pinging with regular, 'upgrading' to mid-grade or premium is NOT an upgrade. You are wasting money, and will probably get worse gas mileage.jersry emt, you may have a point there in the Mileage Dept. I do seem to get worse Mileage with the Chevron High Test 93. I usually get about 450 miles per tank on Low Grade. This is looking more like 350. Why the hell is that ? I would not think it would make much sense. ?????

[jersey_emt]

jersry emt, you may have a point there in the Mileage Dept. I do seem to get worse Mileage with the Chevron High Test 93. I usually get about 450 miles per tank on Low Grade. This is looking more like 350. Why the hell is that ? I would not think it would make much sense. ?????

Because your engine is designed, optimized, and tuned to run the most efficiently on regular gas, not premium.

[Dino1956]

Because your engine is designed, optimized, and tuned to run the most efficiently on regular gas, not premium.OK I see your point. I just thought by running a high test fuel would help clean out Carbon Deposits. Was having an EGR code. "Excessive ERG Flow" Code PO402Thanks. You make good common sense. I'm going back to my cheap gas. :)

[ncsukingpin]

Anyone else know any more about the TLE, or if it is worth it?

bumping for my own question ... Anyone????

[Canadian Bear]

Here is a really good explanation of the use of high octane fuel, and neither of my vehicles will be getting 91 octane fuel again. For the record, 87 octane will do just fine, and that is what our engines are programmed for.

*Disclaimer* I take no credit for this post or the contents within, but I will take credit for the research. This article was borrowed from "ca.answers.yahoo.com" for information purposes only.


"Here is the final say on this problem, to clear it up once and for all (at least for those that read it)

You do not need 90 octane fuel (assuming you live in an area like Utah that has 86,88,90)

Octane is a measurement by the rate of which gasoline ignites

The higher the octane, the SLOWER it ignites

Why do high performance cars need higher octane?

Because they usually have extremely high compression (turbocharged, supercharged or high compression pistons) and need a gasoline that won't explode immediately under that high pressure until the spark plug is programmed to ignite the air/fuel mixture. If you put in low octane gas into an engine that requires premium, you will get what is called "knock" the technical name of this is called pre-detonation. Predetonation is bad because it can cause the air/fuel mixture to "explode" (that's what your engine does after all, creates mini explosions) and the explosion will have nowhere to expand, thus, blowing holes in your engine.

Now what does putting a high octane gasoline in your low compression car do?

First off, remember how I said that high octane burns slower, well esentially, when it is sprayed in your cylinders, and the spark ignites it, the explosion hasn't fully materialized by time the exhaust valves open, you are therefore, losing that valuable pressure (that pushes down harder on the pistons to the crankshaft, thus creating more horsepower and torque) right out into your exhaust manifold. Also, with that decreased amount of explosion, your engine computer might sense that the engine is underpowered and will send a signal to your fuel injectors to stay open longer, to spray more fuel. This will increase gas mileage. ON TOP of all of that, with unburnt fuel entering your exhaust system, it could very well get trapped in your catalytic converter, causing excessive heat, and melt the metal substrate, effectively destroying your cat.

So what effect will putting a higher level octane in a car?

Lower gas mileage
Increased emissions (unburnt fuel)
decreased performance
more chance for catalytic convertor failure (OEM replacements run $500 and up)

And while I'm at it, folks, don't buy cheapy ebay catalytic convertors, they aren't even the real thing and will fail any emissions test due to the construction of them.

That's all I have, i hope you're all better educated now!"

[ncsukingpin]

Good write up. Thanks for posting.

[Maz2001MP]

it is true
in my experience, shitty gas and/or low octane gas has caused carbon build up in various engines

on the 2.0 protege engine, it has responded positively on 93 octane... it DOES run better than regular gas... I have looked at the ignition timing myself and the ECU does bump the timing up when you use higher octane gas

Thank you, I've been saying this forever. When putting in regular gas, the Protege runs like crap. 91 or 93 octane seem to wake the car up.

On my 01' LX 2.0, my manual states 87 octane can be used but for the best performance 91 octane is recommended.

[GMONEI]

Here is a really good explanation of the use of high octane fuel, and neither of my vehicles will be getting 91 octane fuel again. For the record, 87 octane will do just fine, and that is what our engines are programmed for.

*Disclaimer* I take no credit for this post or the contents within, but I will take credit for the research. This article was borrowed from "ca.answers.yahoo.com" for information purposes only.


"Here is the final say on this problem, to clear it up once and for all (at least for those that read it)

You do not need 90 octane fuel (assuming you live in an area like Utah that has 86,88,90)

Octane is a measurement by the rate of which gasoline ignites

The higher the octane, the SLOWER it ignites

Why do high performance cars need higher octane?

Because they usually have extremely high compression (turbocharged, supercharged or high compression pistons) and need a gasoline that won't explode immediately under that high pressure until the spark plug is programmed to ignite the air/fuel mixture. If you put in low octane gas into an engine that requires premium, you will get what is called "knock" the technical name of this is called pre-detonation. Predetonation is bad because it can cause the air/fuel mixture to "explode" (that's what your engine does after all, creates mini explosions) and the explosion will have nowhere to expand, thus, blowing holes in your engine.

Now what does putting a high octane gasoline in your low compression car do?

First off, remember how I said that high octane burns slower, well esentially, when it is sprayed in your cylinders, and the spark ignites it, the explosion hasn't fully materialized by time the exhaust valves open, you are therefore, losing that valuable pressure (that pushes down harder on the pistons to the crankshaft, thus creating more horsepower and torque) right out into your exhaust manifold. Also, with that decreased amount of explosion, your engine computer might sense that the engine is underpowered and will send a signal to your fuel injectors to stay open longer, to spray more fuel. This will increase gas mileage. ON TOP of all of that, with unburnt fuel entering your exhaust system, it could very well get trapped in your catalytic converter, causing excessive heat, and melt the metal substrate, effectively destroying your cat.

So what effect will putting a higher level octane in a car?

Lower gas mileage
Increased emissions (unburnt fuel)
decreased performance
more chance for catalytic convertor failure (OEM replacements run $500 and up)

And while I'm at it, folks, don't buy cheapy ebay catalytic convertors, they aren't even the real thing and will fail any emissions test due to the construction of them.

That's all I have, i hope you're all better educated now!"




I bought my protege new in 99 and i've always put 93 and sometimes 100
octane in it and i have never had a problem.I'm at 195,000 miles now.

[StealthWyvern]

I bought my protege new in 99 and i've always put 93 and sometimes 100
octane in it and i have never had a problem.I'm at 195,000 miles now.

WOW 195k! Thats always good to know.

[Dino1956]

WOW 195k! Thats always good to know.Well now I'm totally confused on what to do ! The detailed explanation seemed to make sense. But experience and that much mileage sways me to high octane. But I just got laid off from Circuit City after almost 5 yrs of loyal service, so I'll stick to the cheap stuff for now. :)

[Canadian Bear]

Honestly, it is hard to say what the actual affects that high octane fuel has on our Proteges. I agree, to a certain extent, with what the article states. I will also point out that I am not a mechanic nor do I have racing experience. With that being said, I have no idea what the benefits/non-benefits that high octane fuel has. I don't notice a difference from either form of fuel, and I drive everyday.

Read this if you want:

The need for a premium fuel depends upon the compression ratio, and perhaps the ignition timing. Is is NOT related to how many cylinders or how large in displacement. There are high performance 4's whose manufacturers recommend premium fuel, and 6's and 8's that are OK with regular. General mechanical knowledge, an engine which requires 87 octane will not benefit in any way whatsoever by using 89 or 91 octane. It will NOT be cleaner, last longer, go faster, or get better mileage, it will just cost more. Your money, your choice.

Also, it will do more damage to your engine when using a higher than recommended octane rating, mainly because if your vehicle is designed for use with 87 octane rating, giving the vehicle a higher octane level, increases the internal compression to level higher than it was designed to be. Thus the chances of engine damage, and more wear/tear costs are increased. You should only use what is recommended. No more, no less.

Octane points refers to the fuels ability to resist detonation, high compression or turbo charging are conditions in where pinging or detonation can occur. High octane gas prevents this. Pinging or knocking will cause a loss of power in these type of engines because timing may be retarded to bring cylinder pressures down.

Typical engines are low compression and do not need high octane. However it will not hurt them either, it is possible that high octane may beneficial to prevent knocking. But a non performance engine functioning properly does not need high octane fuel.

Also:


Q - What octane gas is right for my car?

A – Newsletter: “Texas Tea: All About Gas and Oil”

I have 3 answers for you!

1. Preliminary guideline is in owner’s manual. If that happens to be low octane, use it. Never, ever “treat” your low-octane engine to a high-octane fuel. It’s like treating a baby to a filet mignon. Your engine, like the baby, simply cannot digest it.

2. However, if it’s anything else, I recommend mid-grade if: 1) you’re a conservative driver; 2) you hear no pinging. Because the on-board computer typically adjusts for grade, you can usually pump a lower octane without penalty.

3. However… if you’re a hard-charging, aggressive driver and/or you hear a ping or knock, dig into your pocket & go back to the higher, more expensive octane.


Or check these sites:

http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/independent/2069.aspx
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa070401a_2.htm


Although there are some interesting facts/possible theories, I guess neither grade fuel is wrong depending on the application. Ultimately, it is up to the individual when it comes to what grade fuel they treat their vehicle with.

[Dino1956]

Honestly, it is hard to say what the actual affects that high octane fuel has on our Proteges. I agree, to a certain extent, with what the article states. I will also point out that I am not a mechanic nor do I have racing experience. With that being said, I have no idea what the benefits/non-benefits that high octane fuel has. I don't notice a difference from either form of fuel, and I drive everyday.

Read this if you want:

The need for a premium fuel depends upon the compression ratio, and perhaps the ignition timing. Is is NOT related to how many cylinders or how large in displacement. There are high performance 4's whose manufacturers recommend premium fuel, and 6's and 8's that are OK with regular. General mechanical knowledge, an engine which requires 87 octane will not benefit in any way whatsoever by using 89 or 91 octane. It will NOT be cleaner, last longer, go faster, or get better mileage, it will just cost more. Your money, your choice.

Also, it will do more damage to your engine when using a higher than recommended octane rating, mainly because if your vehicle is designed for use with 87 octane rating, giving the vehicle a higher octane level, increases the internal compression to level higher than it was designed to be. Thus the chances of engine damage, and more wear/tear costs are increased. You should only use what is recommended. No more, no less.

Octane points refers to the fuels ability to resist detonation, high compression or turbo charging are conditions in where pinging or detonation can occur. High octane gas prevents this. Pinging or knocking will cause a loss of power in these type of engines because timing may be retarded to bring cylinder pressures down.

Typical engines are low compression and do not need high octane. However it will not hurt them either, it is possible that high octane may beneficial to prevent knocking. But a non performance engine functioning properly does not need high octane fuel.

Also:


Q - What octane gas is right for my car?

A – Newsletter: “Texas Tea: All About Gas and Oil”

I have 3 answers for you!

1. Preliminary guideline is in owner’s manual. If that happens to be low octane, use it. Never, ever “treat” your low-octane engine to a high-octane fuel. It’s like treating a baby to a filet mignon. Your engine, like the baby, simply cannot digest it.

2. However, if it’s anything else, I recommend mid-grade if: 1) you’re a conservative driver; 2) you hear no pinging. Because the on-board computer typically adjusts for grade, you can usually pump a lower octane without penalty.

3. However… if you’re a hard-charging, aggressive driver and/or you hear a ping or knock, dig into your pocket & go back to the higher, more expensive octane.


Or check these sites:

http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/independent/2069.aspx
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa070401a_2.htm


Although there are some interesting facts/possible theories, I guess neither grade fuel is wrong depending on the application. Ultimately, it is up to the individual when it comes to what grade fuel they treat their vehicle with.Thanks. Great Answers & Info !

[zoomin MP3]

I say just get out and drive. Put each of the octanes in your car and try to drive each tank the same. Which ever tank gets the best mileage, is probably the best for your car. I had an 88 taurus that loved mid-grade. That's where I got the best mileage. My 97 taurus however hates anything but the cheap stuff. I'm still testing in my MP3, so I don't know about that one yet. But one thing is for sure, if you're not driving hard most or all of the time, then the premium is a waste.