MS3 ECU reflash rumor - is it true?

[flyrevs]

MS3 ECU reflash rumor - is it true? Can anybody confirm this? Supposedly gets rid of some of the boost limit in 3rd gear.

Thanks

[SwampAss]

I was not aware of a boost limit in 3rd gear.

[Refonbass]

Try rolling into boost while cruising in the 3rd gear and tell me theres no 3rd gear boost limiting(shady)

As for whether there is a reflash to fix it. I'm not sure. I'd call my dealer and ask them but they're utterly useless.

[SwampAss]

oh. That's common with every turbo car I've driven. I had my VW ECM reflashed and guess what? Still had it.

[zoom-zoomhatch]

If this is the same reflash that they are doing on the speed6s it's supposedly a reflash that keeps the power cut from the car sensing knock to go down by pulling timing. People have complained on their boards about power loss, not gain.

[dcomiskey]

I'd just like a re-flash to stop our cars from running so damn rich.

[yashooa]

I'd just like a re-flash to stop our cars from running so damn rich. WOW, shades of days gone by...sounds like 03 with the MSP's :)

[jdmls88]

haha dude more air/boost will lean out the car, not a reflash

-yashooa sick project your working on

[shark77]

haha dude more air/boost will lean out the car, not a reflash

Remind me to come to you about all my car questions.(crazy)

[zoom-zoomhatch]

haha dude more air/boost will lean out the car, not a reflash

-yashooa sick project your working on

Not trying to spark an argument or anything, but doesn't the cobb accesport tune through using a reflash?

[jdmls88]

lol i believe you can, my bad but i feel dcomiskey didnt mean what he said so i poke fun. All fun and games

[zoom-zoomhatch]

lol i believe you can, my bad but i feel dcomiskey didnt mean what he said so i poke fun. All fun and games

That's what it's all about, I was just noting I thought you could in fact lean out a car by use of a reflash.

[jdmls88]

That's what it's all about
exactly lol but if it was me i would up the boost or add an intake to lean it out and add much power, not reduce fuel/power

[Speedy3]

According to CP-E, the MAZDASPEED 3 CAI artificially leans out the A/F ratio because of the improperly designed MAF housing. Maybe it's really the fact that they designed the car to run best on the upgraded intake/Exhaust.

[jdmls88]

According to CP-E, the MAZDASPEED 3 CAI artificially leans out the A/F ratio because of the improperly designed MAF housing. Maybe it's really the fact that they designed the car to run best on the upgraded intake/Exhaust.
the car was designed for tuning, maybe they had that in mind^^

[mcb]

They have a mazdaspeed version of the ms3. They showed it to press on laguna seca. It's prolly what they wanted to sell but no way anybody can drive it SAFELY, so they downgraded it to our ms3... Its still not a bad car stock... pig rich but still good imo.

[camrycev6]

I just had the MS CAI installed yesterday. I talked to the Mazda techs and they said the ECU is reprogrammed during a MS CAI install. In fact, they said it was very important to do it so A/F is properly maintained.

[jbiird317]

so what exactly did they say the reflash did? just correct the a/f ratio? or do they also add the much rumored torque limiter in 3rd

[camrycev6]

I asked what it was for...and they said for adjusting the A/F mix. (They didn't know it was required at the beginning of the install.)

They went on to say... "The computer now knows there is a CAI installed." Whatever that means beyond the stated A/F portion is nebulous.

They made no mention at all about changing the torque / gear limitations.

[$inCitySpeed3]

having mine done on monday at 9am

[RonTonkinMazda]

i emailed mazda we have done one and have not been told about any reflash so i should find out for sure if there is one or not.


****There is no reflash for the MS CAI and if your dealer says there is they are wrong**** What dealer said there was a reflash?

[jbiird317]

i emailed mazda we have done one and have not been told about any reflash so i should find out for sure if there is one or not.


****There is no reflash for the MS CAI and if your dealer says there is they are wrong**** What dealer said there was a reflash?

good lookin out man, thanks

[Ferdball]

****There is no reflash for the MS CAI and if your dealer says there is they are wrong**** What dealer said there was a reflash?
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123663394

[RonTonkinMazda]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123663394


yeah there is a reflash for the p2006 code not for the ms cai

[flyrevs]

yeah there is a reflash for the p2006 code not for the ms caiConfused now. I thought the fix for the P2006 cel was the new intake runner (hardware). Now you are saying there is a reflash of the ecu.
Please explain! Thanks! (drive)

[RonTonkinMazda]

Confused now. I thought the fix for the P2006 cel was the new intake runner (hardware). Now you are saying there is a reflash of the ecu.
Please explain! Thanks! (drive)


its both a part and then a reflash almost all engine related tsb's include a reflash but what is does i have no idea.

[camrycev6]

As I say in the thread, the Mazda guys told me they did do a ECU reflash as it was part of the MS CAI install. So either they lied to me (and I can't see any reason why...since it really doesn't matter to me), or Mazda isn't consistent on this one. I will call and ask them.

[RonTonkinMazda]

As I say in the thread, the Mazda guys told me they did do a ECU reflash as it was part of the MS CAI install. So either they lied to me (and I can't see any reason why...since it really doesn't matter to me), or Mazda isn't consistent on this one. I will call and ask them.


please do because i am being told by mazdaspeed that there is no reflash for the CAI.

[camrycev6]

I just got off the phone with Mazda. I was lied too. When I asked why, it was basically because the install took longer than they thought so they needed to tell me something. The service manager apologized and offered me 10% off next time I was in and a free tank of gas.

Sorry for the confusion folks. I was just repeating what I was told by the "experts."

[RonTonkinMazda]

I just got off the phone with Mazda. I was lied too. When I asked why, it was basically because the install took longer than they thought so they needed to tell me something. The service manager apologized and offered me 10% off next time I was in and a free tank of gas.

Sorry for the confusion folks. I was just repeating what I was told by the "experts."


wow! hey its not your fault you belived your dealer and thats why i wanted to get to the bottom of it so others don't go to the dealer because they think there is a reflash they need

[camrycev6]

Interestingly enough, he said there was a reflash for MS3s, but it had nothing to do with the CAI. He said it was to reduce their output because of wheel spin problems. This he said, is done to new MS3s before they are sold to customers....so "we" would never see it or really know about it.

[$inCitySpeed3]

Interestingly enough, he said there was a reflash for MS3s, but it had nothing to do with the CAI. He said it was to reduce their output because of wheel spin problems. This he said, is done to new MS3s before they are sold to customers....so "we" would never see it or really know about it.
I call Bullshit, just had it done 20 minutes ago, and on the receipt it says
"Update PCM for lack of power, Reprogrammed PCM"

As for the Butt dyno, not much different on top end, but boy out of teh hole is a lot better(if you know how to lunch these cars)

[RonTonkinMazda]

I call Bullshit, just had it done 20 minutes ago, and on the receipt it says
"Update PCM for lack of power, Reprogrammed PCM"

As for the Butt dyno, not much different on top end, but boy out of teh hole is a lot better(if you know how to lunch these cars)


yeah i know there is no reflash a dealer does to tune down the power on these i think his dealer is clueless and just likes to spout things out.

[$inCitySpeed3]

Interestingly enough, he said there was a reflash for MS3s, but it had nothing to do with the CAI. He said it was to reduce their output because of wheel spin problems. This he said, is done to new MS3s before they are sold to customers....so "we" would never see it or really know about it.i dont think they would do this for a couple of reasons...
1.Mazda had to buy back thousands of RX-8 when they came out due to HP level lower then adverised on the dyno...I doubt they would go through the slander and bad word of mouth through customers again.

2. Anybody that knows anything about a car knows that 263 hp FWD is going to be all over the place anyways

3. I think your dealer is getting teh program in the ECU(PCM) mixed up with a reflash... The cars stock do not allow full boost in 1st and 2nd for torque steer issues, thats why 3 and 4 feel the way they do

[camrycev6]

i dont think they would do this for a couple of reasons...
1.Mazda had to buy back thousands of RX-8 when they came out due to HP level lower then adverised on the dyno...I doubt they would go through the slander and bad word of mouth through customers again.

2. Anybody that knows anything about a car knows that 263 hp FWD is going to be all over the place anyways

3. I think your dealer is getting teh program in the ECU(PCM) mixed up with a reflash... The cars stock do not allow full boost in 1st and 2nd for torque steer issues, thats why 3 and 4 feel the way they do

Perhaps he is. Either way, it doesn't matter to me at this point....since there isn't a need for any sort of programming.

[MS6S2K]

Anyone know if and when a Cobb AP is coming out for the MS3/MS6? Can Cobb do what Mazda cannot? I miss the Cobb AP I had in my Subaru. The car never had a single tuning issue, and you could control and finely tune the car, add boost, it had valet mode (fuel cuts off at 3k Rpms), anti theft mode, economy mode (added 1-2mpg), and tons of octane modes and various flashes that changed the way the car drove, and how the power was delivered. It was truly a wonderful tool to have. It added like 10-15whp and tq just by plugging it in, and with the press of a button, with no other mods.

Will this ever exist for the Mazda, and will they ever have this car tuned right like Subaru? I sure hope so. My Speed6 is driving me nuts with it's inconsistent power and lack of proper tuning. Hurry up Cobb. Save us. :)

[BlackJack]

Anyone know if and when a Cobb AP is coming out for the MS3/MS6? Can Cobb do what Mazda cannot? I miss the Cobb AP I had in my Subaru. The car never had a single tuning issue, and you could control and finely tune the car, add boost, it had valet mode (fuel cuts off at 3k Rpms), anti theft mode, economy mode (added 1-2mpg), and tons of octane modes and various flashes that changed the way the car drove, and how the power was delivered. It was truly a wonderful tool to have. It added like 10-15whp and tq just by plugging it in, and with the press of a button, with no other mods.

Will this ever exist for the Mazda, and will they ever have this car tuned right like Subaru? I sure hope so. My Speed6 is driving me nuts with it's inconsistent power and lack of proper tuning. Hurry up Cobb. Save us. :)

The Xede EMS does just that. Not only reprogramming the ECU, but also increasing the HP/TQ by a HUGE amount, from 225RHP to 280RHP.

[$inCitySpeed3]

The Xede EMS does just that. Not only reprogramming the ECU, but also increasing the HP/TQ by a HUGE amount, from 225RHP to 280RHP.+1 supposed to be one bad-ass unit

[herbzkim]

Anyone know if and when a Cobb AP is coming out for the MS3/MS6? Can Cobb do what Mazda cannot? I miss the Cobb AP I had in my Subaru. The car never had a single tuning issue, and you could control and finely tune the car, add boost, it had valet mode (fuel cuts off at 3k Rpms), anti theft mode, economy mode (added 1-2mpg), and tons of octane modes and various flashes that changed the way the car drove, and how the power was delivered. It was truly a wonderful tool to have. It added like 10-15whp and tq just by plugging it in, and with the press of a button, with no other mods.

Will this ever exist for the Mazda, and will they ever have this car tuned right like Subaru? I sure hope so. My Speed6 is driving me nuts with it's inconsistent power and lack of proper tuning. Hurry up Cobb. Save us. :)
Can somebody enlighten me as to what "AP" stands for? Sounds like a very interesting piece of technology.

[Ferdball]

AP stands for AccessPORT.
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32887&page=4

[herbzkim]

AP stands for AccessPORT.
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32887&page=4

Thank you very much!

[MS6S2K]

The Xede EMS does just that. Not only reprogramming the ECU, but also increasing the HP/TQ by a HUGE amount, from 225RHP to 280RHP.


I just briefly searched some info it. This is not plug and play like Subaru has. That will be far better and more reliable then this it ever comes out. This looks like a major project to install, and a bad risk. Cobb is simply plug in, install, load up, and go. Takes 20 minutes, and anyone with half a brain can install and use it. Not one hint of a problem, perfect tuning. I guess I'll just have to hope Cobb makes one. And 225whp to 280whp with nothing more then ecu programming? I don't buy that. There's gotta be intake and exhaust mods needed. I would have been close to 300whp in my STI if I had simply added the COBB intake and exhaust mod to my Cobb tuner.

[Nutari]

I just briefly searched some info it. This is not plug and play like Subaru has. That will be far better and more reliable then this it ever comes out. This looks like a major project to install, and a bad risk. Cobb is simply plug in, install, load up, and go. Takes 20 minutes, and anyone with half a brain can install and use it. Not one hint of a problem, perfect tuning. I guess I'll just have to hope Cobb makes one. And 225whp to 280whp with nothing more then ecu programming? I don't buy that. There's gotta be intake and exhaust mods needed. I would have been close to 300whp in my STI if I had simply added the COBB intake and exhaust mod to my Cobb tuner.
took me 20 minutes to install my XEDE...

COBB doesnt exist yet btw. (yet again...)

[$inCitySpeed3]

And 225whp to 280whp with nothing more then ecu programming? I don't buy that. There's gotta be intake and exhaust mods needed. I would have been close to 300whp in my STI if I had simply added the COBB intake and exhaust mod to my Cobb tuner.
Well that sucks for you that u cant believe it, it does what it says and there are numerous post on here showing just that, there is a guy in a MS6 that just ran a 13.1 at 104 with just the XEDE and he only cut a 1.8, so you might want to read a little more before you bash it

[MS6S2K]

Well that sucks for you that u cant believe it, it does what it says and there are numerous post on here showing just that, there is a guy in a MS6 that just ran a 13.1 at 104 with just the XEDE and he only cut a 1.8, so you might want to read a little more before you bash it

I have read enough. The guy that ran that 13.18, has intake and exhaust mods, NOT just the Xede as you claim. I'm talking about taking a bone stock Speed 6, 20 minute install, and 280whp, like the car came that way out of the showroom. No CAI, no exhaust upgrade, just the Xede, and nothing else. Naturally with any additional mods of course I believe it. I believe it, but I don't believe with the stock exhaust and intake, you can add 50+whp just by adding a Xede, not on my Speed 6 and not safely. That exhaust is too restrictive. I'm weery of the long term reliability with the Xede. I don't doubt it's potential. Gotta be plug and play for me. That's why I'll hope and wait for Cobb. :)

[Nutari]

I have read enough. The guy that ran that 13.18, has intake and exhaust mods, NOT just the Xede as you claim. I'm talking about taking a bone stock Speed 6, 20 minute install, and 280whp, like the car came that way out of the showroom. No CAI, no exhaust upgrade, just the Xede, and nothing else. Naturally with any additional mods of course I believe it. I believe it, but I don't believe with the stock exhaust and intake, you can add 50+whp just by adding a Xede, not on my Speed 6 and not safely. That exhaust is too restrictive. I'm weery of the long term reliability with the Xede. I don't doubt it's potential. Gotta be plug and play for me. That's why I'll hope and wait for Cobb. :)
no, you obviously DONT know how to read. He ran a 13.8 with the intake and exhaust. Then with the XEDE ran a 13.1. If you dont think that .7 seconds off a 1/4 mile time isnt impressive, especially at that level.. you are a moron.

(gtfo)

[MS6S2K]

no, you obviously DONT know how to read. He ran a 13.8 with the intake and exhaust. Then with the XEDE ran a 13.1. If you dont think that .7 seconds off a 1/4 mile time isnt impressive, especially at that level.. you are a fucking moron.

(gtfo)


No, you obviously don't know how to read, or to think. The intake and exhaust brings the Xede to life. That was my point. They go hand in hand. Just because he went from a 13.8 to a 13.1 with the Xede, it's not 100% the Xede. That intake and exhaust needs to be opened up for that to happen, and he has it opened up. Anyone with half a brain would know how restrictive the Speed 6 exhaust is. If you think that you could pull a bone stock Speed 6 into a dyno. Run the dyno at lets say 220whp stock. Then just install the Xede right there, and add over 50whp safely and effictively, you are the fucking moron. ;)

[Captain KRM P5]

i love how much "beer courage" people get when they log into an internet forum. :)

the exhaust on the car with the XEDE did nothing to "bring it to life". the car still retains the most restrictive elements of the stock exhaust (downpipe, cat, et al) and before and after runs with the car and just the exhaust - no intake mind you - yielded no measurable or better gains over stock. it is in all its effectiveness nothing more than a larger diameter system with a large glass pack and no resonators or mufflers. its not a turboback exhaust by any stretch of the imagination. you can drive the car and easily tell the exhaust is more for sound than it is for any level of performance.

i will readily and 100% agree that the intake is a well designed piece and gives every bit the gain CP-E claims it does, which according to thier site is roughly 11hp. thats not going to exponentially make the XEDE perform so much better than if it were on it's own. we could easily throw the stock airbox back on and see just how much the XEDE does on its own, and if its any slower than 13.5 i'd eat my words. once you reach the 12s and 13s, an intake isn't going to help shave that much off your times, its mathematically and exponentially not possible. its substantially harder to make more power and go faster when you start getting down into that range, its not a linear curve.

look at how the mazdaspeed6 runs stock - the car hits 10 to 1 or richer in boost and richer the higher up into the powerband the car goes. anyone who has done as much forced induction tuning, or more, as i have can tell you that simply leaning the car out across the powerband will free up a good deal of horsepower, much better than any intake or exhaust will do. the XEDE keeps the car in solid 12 to 1 air fuel ratios up to redline in boost. i would normally say this alone would be the key element until you also examine that, prior to the XEDE install, the car would lose power and taper off just before or around 6000rpms. we have managed to alleviate a good deal of that and now there is minimal if any boost fall off all the way to redline. that may not account for peak horsepower, but that would help account for being able to maintain power in each gear, and for that much longer, to better your track time. the car also boosted 15psi stock, give or take. the car now boosts 18psi with an initial spike to 22psi, all while keeping a safe and stable AFR. everything listed above is alot more responsible for a real power gain, especially when you are trying to eke it out getting close to 12s. its easy to break 14s and even 13s, to hit 12s and 11s is exponentially much more difficult, and isn't going to be primarily the work of an 11whp peak cold air intake and a noisier exhaust.

case in point; the ETS top mount intercooler gives 20 peak horsepower on the 2.3 DISI setup, more so than any cold air intake or catback only exhaust. we dynoed the XEDE both with and without the ETS top mount and the difference was barely 10whp at the top of the curve. i am sure you know gains are proportionally cumulative and do not merely add together 2 + 2 = 4.

it would be a more valid criticism to say that the XEDE makes power because it increases boost levels over stock boost, but thats also part of the benefit of running the system - to avoid boost cut and fuel cut from running more boost. when you look at how the system radically alters the air fuel ratio from stock, retains power to redline and controls the wastegate, its simply incorrect to say the system doesn't pull its weight on its own and that the intake allows it to do the bulk of its job.

i don't intend to or really care if i change anyone's mind, i've tuned more engine management systems in the last five years than most shop owners play with in thier entire career and know where the gains on this car are to be made. but i would like to see constructive debates/conversations had rather than taking personal stabs at one another. we're all adults here, or at least should be trying to act like one.

[MS6S2K]

^^^^^^ I don't doubt the Xede one bit in it's capabilities. However, I go by what Cobb and other leading ECU tuners do tuning cars. Example: I had a stage 2 map for my STI. However, I could not run that map safely until I modiifed the intake and Exhaust. Cobb warns you not to dare use those maps until you add intake and exhaust. So sticking with the Stage 1 map (mild tune) was required, you only gain about 15-20whp safely. I did play around once, and I plugged in the Stage 2 map briefly, and I tell ya, the STI was ready to tear like a mofo. However, it was dangerous to use that kind of tune without modifying the intake and exhaust first. Once you do that on an STI, you can use the Stage 2 maps, and gain an additional 40+whp, on top of the 20whp what just using the Cobb AP gives you if you don't modify anything else. If all you do is modify the intake and exhaust, and don't add the Cobb AP tuner, you will get minimal gains just as you would with the CAI and exhaust mod on the Speed 6.

This is what has me confused. I also realize that Cobb puts safety and reliability as a top priority, but I was always told by many that ECU tuning is really not much of anything without intake and exhaust mods, and vice versa.

I'm curious as to how the Xede avoids that requirement, and how you can push the gains so large and safely, without adding the intake and exhaust mod. I'm not doubting it, I'd just like to understand it better. What makes the Xede safe at high levels of ECU tuning on a Speed 6 with such large gains modifying nothing else, and not on the Cobb or other ECU tuners? I'd like to see some dyno results and track times with just the Xede, and no other mods at all. Hopefully over time we'll get to see that. Perhaps I am underestimating the potential of this Speed 6, by just modifying the ECU. It doesn't seem believable that you can add 40-50whp safely and effictivley without doing anything else, like intake and exhaust. Thanks for reading, and I hope someone can answer my curiosity, as I'm awaiting that day when I can modify my Speed 6 safely and effectvely!!

[Captain KRM P5]

^^^^^^ I don't doubt the Xede one bit in it's capabilities. However, I go by what Cobb and other leading ECU tuners do tuning cars. Example: I had a stage 2 map for my STI. However, I could not run that map safely until I modiifed the intake and Exhaust. Cobb warns you not to dare use those maps until you add intake and exhaust. So sticking with the Stage 1 map (mild tune) was required, you only gain about 15-20whp safely. I did play around once, and I plugged in the Stage 2 map briefly, and I tell ya, the STI was ready to tear like a mofo. However, it was dangerous to use that kind of tune without modifying the intake and exhaust first. Once you do that on an STI, you can use the Stage 2 maps, and gain an additional 40+whp, on top of the 20whp what just using the Cobb AP gives you if you don't modify anything else. If all you do is modify the intake and exhaust, and don't add the Cobb AP tuner, you will get minimal gains just as you would with the CAI and exhaust mod on the Speed 6.

This is what has me confused. I also realize that Cobb puts safety and reliability as a top priority, but I was always told by many that ECU tuning is really not much of anything without intake and exhaust mods, and vice versa.

I'm curious as to how the Xede avoids that requirement, and how you can push the gains so large and safely, without adding the intake and exhaust mod. I'm not doubting it, I'd just like to understand it better. What makes the Xede safe at high levels of ECU tuning on a Speed 6 with such large gains modifying nothing else, and not on the Cobb or other ECU tuners? I'd like to see some dyno results and track times with just the Xede, and no other mods at all. Hopefully over time we'll get to see that. Perhaps I am underestimating the potential of this Speed 6, by just modifying the ECU. It doesn't seem believable that you can add 40-50whp safely and effictivley without doing anything else, like intake and exhaust. Thanks for reading, and I hope someone can answer my curiosity, as I'm awaiting that day when I can modify my Speed 6 safely and effectvely!!

well for one, and though its cliche to say, every car is different in the respects to how well it is tuned and built stock from the factory. lately, since the rx8 even, mazda has done a better job in releasing their cars from the factory. you don't see as much as you used to from things like intakes and catback exhausts. heck a catback on an rx8 yields about 3hp over the stock setup on a dyno.

i don't know that the other tuning systems out there would be any less capable or more capable of producing safe power than the XEDE on these engines. when it comes to doing EMS work, safe is a pretty open ended term to try and measure. typically an engine is going to blow for some pretty basic reasons - running too lean, overcoming the strength of the stock internals by virtue of sheer power, detonation, too high of combustion temps, etc etc. the problem i forsee with any EMS tuner is the strength of the stock internals on the DISI engine. its relatively unknown what they can handle in terms of sheer horsepower because so few people have gone to the lengths of blowing one up. knowing what the bottom end could hold on its own would go great lengths for everyone in knowing where to quit. mike's (4DRHTRD) was blown by running lean at 30psi on a significantly larger turbocharger. this is not the best yardstick so to speak, but it is one of the few yardsticks thus far. there is the issue of the stock turbocharger being efficient or not beyond factory boost.

so far i am judging safety based on a few things. one, we're running beautifully smooth fuel curves all the way to redline. two, we're running very similar boost settings and fuel mapping compared the MS3 XEDE which has been on our MS3 safely for over three months now. three, the 2.3 liter engine has proven since its inception to be able to hold a good amount of boost before giving out. i am operating under the impression, and mazda's word, that the DISI 2.3 is stronger in every sense of the word, allowing it to handle as much or more power as the regular 2.3s have shown to so far. four, sensor data from our OBD2 diagnostic software shows that the engine data falls well within safe ranges during and after 'spirited driving'. this data includes things like intake air temps, fuel trims, etc.

i do agree that ECU tuning is best helped by other mods. we're planning on upgrading the intercooler and downpipe in the next two weeks to free up some more breathing room for the car. if we can break 12s without breaking the car, it would make me happy :) i wasn't so much disagreeing with you, just saying that the XEDE really is the lynch pin of the operation and easily responsible for 90% of the power now being made on the car. the intake probably helped, but not by a drastic measure. the downpipe and intercooler should help much more.

mazda tuned these cars to run very rich. if you look at a stock dyno, the air fuel ratios sink into very rich ranges by the time you hit full boost and into the higher rpm ranges. this is conservative of course, but when you reduce your AFRs from 9:1 (nine parts air per one part fuel) to 12:1 and then add boost, you could easily see very good gains from just EMS.

i don't think its unrealistic to think that Cobb or CP-E can do the same thing with thier systems upon release. I am sure with the right tuning you could easily see the same results, but only time will tell. each EMS is also very different. if you compare the features and abilities of a Vishnu XEDE box to a Cobb AP, even with information from thier respective corporate pages, the XEDE has alot more built into the hardware. We used to push Unichips for the Protege for about $1000, and Microtechs for $1000. I can tell you now which system was the better and more powerful of the two. I don't know on the MS6 which system will end up showing itself the best as there hasn't been enough said about testing on this particular car from the other companies to really judge that unfortunately.

[MS6S2K]

^^^^^ Thanks for the great info. I guess what took me is the responses to the 13.18 1/4 mile time as "install the xede and shave 6-7/10ths of the Speed 6 bone stock 1/4 mile time." When I challenged it, people argued it. That just isn't accurate IMO. I will just have to keep my opinion that you cannot get 40-50whp safely and efficiently from just running the Xede with no other mods. If that ends up being false, then I'll be the first to admit I am wrong. I also believe that the Speed 6 will respond similiarly to the STI and other cars regarding mods. Once you open up that intake and exhaust, and allow that turbo to breath, you can really get some high boost efficiency, car will run much better, and it will make the ecu mod like the Xede shine, and bring the car to a whole new level, which I believe the person who ran that 13.18 did. They also really know how to drive to pull off that time, and didn't mind truly hard launching their car, so I'm actually more impressed with the driver then I am the mods.

If I start to see dyno runs of 270+whp and 1/4 mile times in the 13.3.13.4 range just by installing this Xede and nothing else, and with no potential problems, then I'll not only be happy, I'll willingly stick my foot in my mouth. Thanks again for the great write ups. :)

[Captain KRM P5]

^^^^^ Thanks for the great info. I guess what took me is the responses to the 13.18 1/4 mile time as "install the xede and shave 6-7/10ths of the Speed 6 bone stock 1/4 mile time." When I challenged it, people argued it. That just isn't accurate IMO. I will just have to keep my opinion that you cannot get 40-50whp safely and efficiently from just running the Xede with no other mods. If that ends up being false, then I'll be the first to admit I am wrong. I also believe that the Speed 6 will respond similiarly to the STI and other cars regarding mods. Once you open up that intake and exhaust, and allow that turbo to breath, you can really get some high boost efficiency, car will run much better, and it will make the ecu mod like the Xede shine, and bring the car to a whole new level, which I believe the person who ran that 13.18 did. They also really know how to drive to pull off that time, and didn't mind truly hard launching their car, so I'm actually more impressed with the driver then I am the mods.

If I start to see dyno runs of 270+whp and 1/4 mile times in the 13.3.13.4 range just by installing this Xede and nothing else, and with no potential problems, then I'll not only be happy, I'll willingly stick my foot in my mouth. Thanks again for the great write ups. :)

i'd be happy to put the stock air box on the car and see where it runs with it versus the CP-E intake. i think it would easily hit 13.4 without it and validate the claim that you can shave 6/10ths off stock with the system. if it didn't then i'd be the one putting the foot in my mouth :)

that said, i'd honestly stake my reputation on the car hitting low 13s even with the stock air box on. its due to rain all weekend here, but if weather clears up enough to where we can get some passes in, i'll see if we can do it.

[MS6S2K]

i'd be happy to put the stock air box on the car and see where it runs with it versus the CP-E intake. i think it would easily hit 13.4 without it and validate the claim that you can shave 6/10ths off stock with the system. if it didn't then i'd be the one putting the foot in my mouth :)

that said, i'd honestly stake my reputation on the car hitting low 13s even with the stock air box on. its due to rain all weekend here, but if weather clears up enough to where we can get some passes in, i'll see if we can do it.

Well, if you really want to accurately measure the gains, you need to have a bone stock Speed 6, then run a baseline dyno, and than a Xede dyno. There's really no accuracy when running at the track to create your own dyno results by comparing 1/4 mile times. Shaving 6/10ths of a second can be done simply by one mediocre launch bone stock, followed by a great launch with the Xede. Also weather conditions, ect ect play a role, so it makes it even less accurate. Also keep in mind, people have run 13.8 bone stock, so you should base that gain off of the best achievable time gotten on a bone stock Speed 6, not a magazine time or personal time.

I notice how you are talking about 1/4 times, and not dyno numbers. Do you believe the Xede system alone safely adds 40-50whp to a bone stock Speed 6 with no other mods. That is what really counts here. 50whp gain simply by installing this would prove your 6/10ths gain. In the end though Dyno proven results are what matters, so I'd focus on that, and if you can add 50whp by installing this, and a future plug and play, while not compromizing the reliability of the car, then I'll stick both feet in my mouth. :)

[$inCitySpeed3]

They also really know how to drive to pull off that time, and didn't mind truly hard launching their car, so I'm actually more impressed with the driver then I am the mods.
i dont think that is the case, he only pulled a 1.8 in a AWD or 4WD, which i think there is great room for improvement, not saying he cant drive, but i will bet he could beat it a little harder off the line...also about your dyno post, a DYNO is a tuning tool, it just happens to read HP and TQ

[MS6S2K]

i dont think that is the case, he only pulled a 1.8 in a AWD or 4WD, which i think there is great room for improvement, not saying he cant drive, but i will bet he could beat it a little harder off the line


I'm not doubting the capabilities of the Speed 3 and 6. What I'm doubting is the claim that by simply installing the Xede (no other mods) you can add 40-50whp safely, which then would result in shaving 6-7 10ths off the 1/4 mile time. So far no one really is arguing against me, or able to truly prove that claim. Of course once you add intake and exhaust mods, I believe it, and I also believe it's capable of even more. I just want to get to the bottom of this. I'm the type of guy that does not want to modify my intake and exhaust. I like the quiet ride. I'm looking to add some more power with some plug and play. I just want to know what the true gain is, because I can't get myself to believe I will be able to add 40-50whp just by buying and installing this. But believe me, I'd love to be wrong. Just waiting for evidence of this claim. :)

[$inCitySpeed3]

I got ya, wish i still had my dyno to do this on, would do it in a heart beat...

[CTGrey02]

I'm not doubting the capabilities of the Speed 3 and 6. What I'm doubting is the claim that by simply installing the Xede (no other mods) you can add 40-50whp safely, which then would result in shaving 6-7 10ths off the 1/4 mile time. So far no one really is arguing against me, or able to truly prove that claim. Of course once you add intake and exhaust mods, I believe it, and I also believe it's capable of even more. I just want to get to the bottom of this. I'm the type of guy that does not want to modify my intake and exhaust. I like the quiet ride. I'm looking to add some more power with some plug and play. I just want to know what the true gain is, because I can't get myself to believe I will be able to add 40-50whp just by buying and installing this. But believe me, I'd love to be wrong. Just waiting for evidence of this claim. :)

I wouldn't worry so much about peak numbers as I would worry about your A/F ratio. Regardless of mods, commanding a nice smooth A/F curve at a reasonable ratio is far more important than bragging numbers. Just correcting that alone will provide you with better throttle response, driveability and in my opinion a longer lifespan to your piston rings and catalytic converters. The dyno sheets Nutari posted in the XEDE How To thread demonstrated how well the A/F is commanded by the unit. Like you, I'm not looking to modify my car(If it ever gets here), BUT, the car needs a tune. I dont want to replace the cat out of pocket when it finally fails or deal with premature carbon buildup on expensive O2 sensors because Mazda decided more fuel would fix all their issues. When the ECU reflashers come out, you'll get your PNP wishes, at present, they're not at market. XEDE is and from what I've seen is a solid solution aside from not being able to be slapped into the ODBII port like other tuning options on the market for other vehicles. I'm waiting for that myself.

[meha11]

as soon as the xede is P&P i'll be getting one. theres a few reasons like you said.

i think i remember ken saying the xede can not be traced by a tech when it is not installed for dealer visits, but the others can. Also if it leans the car out and adds the power it says it does then it should be a great product.

[dread]

CPE cannot be traced either, and there is no proof that the accessport can be traced. If the CPE product is as good as they are promising it will have more capabilities than the xede (most importantly control of the throttle) and cost at least $300 less. From what I understand the xede is being updated and the version being sold now will be improved upon soon. Good things will come to those who wait.

[Captain KRM P5]

and there is no proof that the accessport can be traced. .

i have called Cobb numerous times on this and they said the Accessport can be detected by a dealership if they are looking for it. I asked the master tech at Mazda what this entails and basically if they scan the ECU and see that a flash was written to it by a non-Mazda computer (this can be identified by the serial number of the the flash on the unit, and the serial number of the computer flashing it, both of which are recorded into the ECU's readable history) then they will know some modification was made outside of the dealership.

He insinuated that the only reason anyone would have to look for things like this is if you blew the motor. His regional boss has said that while Mazda could give a whodanickel about the 2.3 engines in the 6 and 3, the DISI engines are ones they are keeping thier collective eyes on. After debacles with the RX7 and RX8, if one of these motors goes they're going send a rep out from corporate to find out why.

i know a little more about Cobb than many outside of them do at this point but i'll let them make the announcements when the time comes.

Well, if you really want to accurately measure the gains, you need to have a bone stock Speed 6, then run a baseline dyno, and than a Xede dyno. There's really no accuracy when running at the track to create your own dyno results by comparing 1/4 mile times. Shaving 6/10ths of a second can be done simply by one mediocre launch bone stock, followed by a great launch with the Xede. Also weather conditions, ect ect play a role, so it makes it even less accurate. Also keep in mind, people have run 13.8 bone stock, so you should base that gain off of the best achievable time gotten on a bone stock Speed 6, not a magazine time or personal time.

the launches if you look at the 13.8 and 13.1 were equally good. the timeslips show near identical 60ft and reaction times which are indicators of near identical launches. if we use weather as an argument, the 13.1 run was done a few hours after a torrential downpour, thus it could be said (though i am not) that the car should have been even quicker.

I notice how you are talking about 1/4 times, and not dyno numbers. Do you believe the Xede system alone safely adds 40-50whp to a bone stock Speed 6 with no other mods.

based on the extensive dyno testing of the mazdaspeed3 xede with various mods installed and uninstalled as well as the math behind exponentially increasing your ability to reduce a quarter mile time, yes i absolutely do. i plan on getting baselines of this particular vehicle to help support that belief, and if they fall into step with baselines of every other Dynojet run mazdaspeed6, it will.

[MS6S2K]

i know a little more about Cobb than many outside of them do at this point but i'll let them make the announcements when the time comes.



the launches if you look at the 13.8 and 13.1 were equally good. the timeslips show near identical 60ft and reaction times which are indicators of near identical launches. if we use weather as an argument, the 13.1 run was done a few hours after a torrential downpour, thus it could be said (though i am not) that the car should have been even quicker.



based on the extensive dyno testing of the mazdaspeed3 xede with various mods installed and uninstalled as well as the math behind exponentially increasing your ability to reduce a quarter mile time, yes i absolutely do. i plan on getting baselines of this particular vehicle to help support that belief, and if they fall into step with baselines of every other Dynojet run mazdaspeed6, it will.

Well, I'm all for that. A future plug and play 40-50whp reliably, while keeping the car it's smooth quiet luxurious self? I truly hope this ends up being true. My goal is to have a finely tuned car that was meant to come out of the factory like it has 280whp. What I truly want is the same ability I had with my STI, but I realize it likely will never happen. Plug it in, change fuel maps on the fly, and the driving characteristics of the car. The Cobb AP on the STi was truly a magnificant thing, and the car ran so perfectly with it too. I even had an economy fuel map that added a couple mpg for those highway trips, Valet mode that limited the rpms to 3k, anti theft modes, various octane maps to change the way the car accelerated and various power options, boost guage, and the instant ability to revert the car right back to stock instantly.

Hopefully Cobb can hack this ECU and control it, while offering similiar power. If not, I'll be looking into the plug and play Xede system after it's been tested and proven to add this kind of power with no other mods reliably safely, and while making this car run better. The Speed 6 stock is not exactly what I'd call a finely tuned car. Once these ECU tuners coming out are being used by more and used by more people, the top dogs will shine. Hopefully the Xede will be one of them. Thanks. :)

[elderlycoffee]

So I have an appointment for tuesday to have my CAI installed, Is there an ECU reflash or not? should I ask about it?

[Ferdball]

I even had an economy fuel map that added a couple mpg for those highway trips, Valet mode that limited the rpms to 3k, anti theft modes, various octane maps to change the way the car accelerated and various power options, boost guage, and the instant ability to revert the car right back to stock instantly.

How does the anti-theft mode work?

[MS6S2K]

How does the anti-theft mode work?

I believe it disables the entire ECU. The only way to get the car to run is to have your Cobb AP handy to plug it in and remove antitheft mode. I guess if you left it in glovebox, you pretty much are screwed, since a thief can plug it in and re-enable it. Since they are serial code protected, only my Cobb AP will work for my car. Another Cobb AP cannot work on my car, and in order for it to work on another you must unmarry the unit. Cobb basically took complete control of the ECU. The mere fact that it adjusts and can remove the rev limiter, you are talking full control of your ECU here. There were two modes on anti-theft for the STI. One started the car, but the moment you revved it it shut off, the other entirely disabled the ECU. Car would not start at all. You need your Cobb AP to get your car running again. I'm just not sure The Mazda ECU will ever be this controllable, but one can still dream. :)