Tranny issues...PLEASE HELP.

[boostdprotegelx]

ok guys. A lot of you know my story w/ the build. it's sad, i know. now i'm having more issues...


I went driving the other day, only to notice that the speedometer wasn't working. i got a new speedo from SAM1 on the forum, and put it in today, still nothing.To be more specific, it's the only one of the cluster guages, NOT working. tach works, fuel, and temp.

a little background;

i had a mazda protegeLX. I bought a msp motor/tranny. I did the swap into my lx. we just recently got it running, so i had no ideas of this issue. I spoke briefly w/ kooldino on the subject, and he wasn't positive, but he had some knowledge of what "MAY" be going on.

Something of the sort, about abs sensors to the non msp model, is how the speed was read. and for the msp, was a sensor or something in the tranny.

My question, does anyone know of this issue, and how can it be resolved? Please any input is welcome. thank you.

[JCell]

are u using the msp ecu?

[Kooldino]

I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the MSP gets it's speedo reading from the ABS sensors, whereas a standard Protege gets it's speedo reading via the sensor plugged into the trans.

What boostd needs to know is if a non MSP speedo sensor can plug into his MSP trans to resolve the issue.

[boostdprotegelx]

are u using the msp ecu?
no, dana told me to sell it, b/c of the mpi..(not installed yet.)

[CrazyCaker]

I think Lil Freek had this problem as well when he did his ATx to MTx conversion. Try checking with him, he might know.

[boostdprotegelx]

I think Lil Freek had this problem as well when he did his ATx to MTx conversion. Try checking with him, he might know.
mhmm. thank you sir. i'll pm him.

[boostdprotegelx]

mhmm. thank you sir. i'll pm him.
still nothing. he's not fixed it..anyone else?

[boostdprotegelx]

bump

[msp35]

doesn't the speedo gear from the standard tranny need to be macined onto the lsd of the msp tranny? Someone recently posted pictures of this.

[boostdprotegelx]

doesn't the speedo gear from the standard tranny need to be macined onto the lsd of the msp tranny? Someone recently posted pictures of this.
i dunno about this, but please, if you know and see something. let me know.

[Kansei]

doesn't the speedo gear from the standard tranny need to be macined onto the lsd of the msp tranny? Someone recently posted pictures of this.

yeah that is one solution, but requires pulling the tranny.

And I'll just confirm that the MSP gets speedo reading from ABS sensors not a speedo gear.

I don't think you can just plug in to the MSP tranny and get a speedo reading, I don't think it has the gear for it at all.

[Kansei]

i dunno about this, but please, if you know and see something. let me know.

You can put the speedo gear onto the MSP tranny.. it's been done.

[boostdprotegelx]

yeah that is one solution, but requires pulling the tranny.

And I'll just confirm that the MSP gets speedo reading from ABS sensors not a speedo gear.

I don't think you can just plug in to the MSP tranny and get a speedo reading, I don't think it has the gear for it at all.
anyone know who i could talk to regarding this?

[boostdprotegelx]

anyone know who i could talk to regarding this?
what about the msp ecu...would that change something?if i installed that instead of the lx ecu that i havE?

talked to jason @ mont mazda. bagman1, he said the msp reads a 21 gear or something and the lx reads a 22 gear or something..he thinks it could be as easy as the ecu change..anyone wanna gimme an ecu to test out??

[Kansei]

anyone know who i could talk to regarding this?

hmm not totally sure? Do you still have your LX tranny?

[Kansei]

what about the msp ecu...would that change something?if i installed that instead of the lx ecu that i havE?

talked to jason @ mont mazda. bagman1, he said the msp reads a 21 gear or something and the lx reads a 22 gear or something..he thinks it could be as easy as the ecu change..anyone wanna gimme an ecu to test out??

no the ECU doesn't do anything as far as I know.. maybe if you installed the abs system and the ECU it would work though.

[boostdprotegelx]

hmm not totally sure? Do you still have your LX tranny?
no.

dana sold it.


the way we saw it..if the lx ecu isn't reading anything, maybe the msp ecu would read the sensor correctly.

[Kansei]

do you have the full abs system installed though? the only thing I know is that the MSP ecu that I'm running doesn't care that I don't have ABS.. no CEL or anything, and it doesn't try to take control of my speedo gauge or anything :P

[boostdprotegelx]

do you have the full abs system installed though? the only thing I know is that the MSP ecu that I'm running doesn't care that I don't have ABS.. no CEL or anything, and it doesn't try to take control of my speedo gauge or anything :P
no i don't have abs. how would you know if it tried? ..i'm confused...how the fuck could it not read the speedo..

[CrazyCaker]

Putting the pink speedo gear onto the MSP tranny in this case will do nothing. If he still had his LX tranny though, he could have put the LSD in with the machined pink speedo gear and then it would have worked.

[Kansei]

Putting the pink speedo gear onto the MSP tranny in this case will do nothing. If he still had his LX tranny though, he could have put the LSD in with the machined pink speedo gear and then it would have worked.

The MSP tranny won't let you plug the speedo sensor in to read the gear?

[Kansei]

no i don't have abs. how would you know if it tried? ..i'm confused...how the fuck could it not read the speedo..

if it tried, it would have just read 0 since I don't have abs. your car's wiring harness has the speedo wired to the sensor that plugs into the tranny so it's lookin for a reading from that. Do you have that sensor plugged into the msp tranny no problem?

[boostdprotegelx]

Putting the pink speedo gear onto the MSP tranny in this case will do nothing. If he still had his LX tranny though, he could have put the LSD in with the machined pink speedo gear and then it would have worked.
so you're saying all in all, it just won't work w/ the setup i have?

[boostdprotegelx]

if it tried, it would have just read 0 since I don't have abs. your car's wiring harness has the speedo wired to the sensor that plugs into the tranny so it's lookin for a reading from that. Do you have that sensor plugged into the msp tranny no problem?
i believe it's plugged in. i have to double check this. i was told that there's a white 4 prong or something plug that has to be plugged..

[Kansei]

Even if you do have it plugged in, it won't work since you're missing the elusive pink speedo gear thing. I just wanted to know if it was plugged in to know if it can be plugged in to the MSP tranny. I would imagine they just came from the factory with that hole plugged instead of making a different tranny bellhousing... and if you can plug in the sensor, and we know the gear can be made to fit on (required a little machining I think.. still lookin around for the thread where I saw it).. it should work once you get the gear in.

[boostdprotegelx]

Even if you do have it plugged in, it won't work since you're missing the elusive pink speedo gear thing. I just wanted to know if it was plugged in to know if it can be plugged in to the MSP tranny. I would imagine they just came from the factory with that hole plugged instead of making a different tranny bellhousing.
so you guys are saying that i need the pink speedo put into my tranny in order to have this work?how am i missing the pink one? isn't it stock on the msp? that's the tranny i have.

[Kansei]

no, the MSP just doesn't have the speedo gear at all. So yeah, sadly your options are either install the full ABS system (which is really crappy anyway, I looked into it, the install isn't bad but it's just not a good ABS system.. sucks) or pull the tranny and get the gear on.

[boostdprotegelx]

no, the MSP just doesn't have the speedo gear at all. So yeah, sadly your options are either install the full ABS system (which is really crappy anyway, I looked into it, the install isn't bad but it's just not a good ABS system.. sucks) or pull the tranny and get the gear on.
putting the gear on would work??hmm....

[Kansei]

putting the gear on would work??hmm....

yeah sorry I can't find the thread yet I'm looking though (smash)

[boostdprotegelx]

yeah sorry I can't find the thread yet I'm looking though (smash)
if you find it..lemme know.

[CrazyCaker]

The MSP tranny won't let you plug the speedo sensor in to read the gear?

If he has the speedo sensor and the pink gear, then it could work.

[CrazyCaker]

Here's a pic of my LSD w/ the pink speedo gear on it. I didn't need it because I have ABS, but it didn't hurt to just leave it on since it was already machined to fit.

[Kansei]

Hopefully you prepared your new differential beforehand by putting on the speedo gear (if you don't have ABS... if you have ABS there is no speedo gear) and pressing on new roller bearings on each end of the diff.

from the how-to disassemble gears/tranny thread: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67599

still not at all what I was looking for, I know I've seen pics of it all before.

[boostdprotegelx]

If he has the speedo sensor and the pink gear, then it could work.
picture of the speedo sensor? and where it goes??

[CrazyCaker]

picture of the speedo sensor? and where it goes??

Sorry don't have pics of that. I don't even know myself where it's actually located on the tranny since I didn't need it.

[Kansei]

Here's a pic of my LSD w/ the pink speedo gear on it. I didn't need it because I have ABS, but it didn't hurt to just leave it on since it was already machined to fit.
the speedo gear fit right onto your MSP LSD? I thought I remember reading that machining needed to be done.

mmm nice welds on the LSD

I think the speedo sensor is plugged into the back side of the tranny.

[Kansei]

The speedo is on the back top side of the tranny more or less on the tranny directly below the throttle body.

Next disconnect the 3 connectors that are on the tranny. The neutral switch, the reverse light switch, and the speedo sensor. The neutral and reverse light switches are on leads and should come up near the engine mount itself. One is grey and the other black I believe. The speedo is on the back top side of the tranny more or less on the tranny directly below the throttle body.

[boostdprotegelx]

Sorry don't have pics of that. I don't even know myself where it's actually located on the tranny since I didn't need it.
dammit dammit dammit.lol.

[Kansei]

so that you don't have to take off the battery and battery tray, it would probably be easiest to see the speedo sensor from underneath the car?

[boostdprotegelx]

yeah i saw this...doesn't show me though!!lol.

[Kansei]

it's the only thing plugging into the tranny on the back side.

I'd take a pic if I had my car

[boostdprotegelx]

so that you don't have to take off the battery and battery tray, it would probably be easiest to see the speedo sensor from underneath the car?
i suppose.

[boostdprotegelx]

it's the only thing plugging into the tranny on the back side.

I'd take a pic if I had my car
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19621

is this it?
if so, it's plugged up there.

[CrazyCaker]

the speedo gear fit right onto your MSP LSD? I thought I remember reading that machining needed to be done.

mmm nice welds on the LSD

No, the LSD was machined to fit the speedo gear.

Thanks for the comment on the welds, I had my dad do them.

[Kansei]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19621

is this it?
if so, it's plugged up there.

no, that's still on the front side of the tranny.. that's the neutral safety switch or one of the others.

[boostdprotegelx]

No, the LSD was machined to fit the speedo gear.

Thanks for the comment on the welds, I had my dad do them.
ok. so if i were to get this pink gear or w/e...what would i have to do to get it to fit?

[Kooldino]

doesn't the speedo gear from the standard tranny need to be macined onto the lsd of the msp tranny? Someone recently posted pictures of this.

I know you have to do that if you use an MSP diff in a non-msp trans..

[Kooldino]

what about the msp ecu...would that change something?if i installed that instead of the lx ecu that i havE?

If in fact MSPs get their speedo reading from their ABS sensors, and you don't have ABS sensors...

[boostdprotegelx]

I know you have to do that if you use an MSP diff in a non-msp trans..
but i don't have that..soo..what's the difference?

[boostdprotegelx]

If in fact MSPs get their speedo reading from their ABS sensors, and you don't have ABS sensors...
would that mean i'd need to change over to an abs type of deal?

[Kooldino]

the way we saw it..if the lx ecu isn't reading anything, maybe the msp ecu would read the sensor correctly.

Read what sensor correctly? The one that you don't have?

[boostdprotegelx]

Read what sensor correctly? The one that you don't have?
how do i know if i have it or not? that's the issue here. i don't even know where to look to see if i have it.. but it's a msp tranny, why would i not have the msp sensor..

[Kansei]

He has the sensor (speedo sensor), dunno if he has it plugged into his tranny or not though... the sensor just has no gear to get a reading from. CrazyCaker says his LSD was machined to fit the speedo gear, but I swear I read someone saying they machined the speedo gear (looks like it's plastic?) to fit on the MSP LSD for use in a non-ABS Protege. It's something I need to look into myself because I'll be installing an MSP LSD too.

[Kansei]

how do i know if i have it or not? that's the issue here. i don't even know where to look to see if i have it.. but it's a msp tranny, why would i not have the msp sensor..

MSP sensor isn't on the tranny, it doesn't have a speedo sensor at all. it just knows doing the computation for the ABS system. If your bellhousing has the spot for the speedo sensor and you have it hooked up, all you need is to get a speedo gear onto your diff somehow..

[boostdprotegelx]

He has the sensor (speedo sensor), dunno if he has it plugged into his tranny or not though... the sensor just has no gear to get a reading from. CrazyCaker says his LSD was machined to fit the speedo gear, but I swear I read someone saying they machined the speedo gear (looks like it's plastic?) to fit on the MSP LSD for use in a non-ABS Protege. It's something I need to look into myself because I'll be installing an MSP LSD too.
mother fucker. i wish i knew where to look.. i didn't see anything just hanging before..sooo..i'm a bit confused.

[Kansei]

there should be three things plugged into your tranny. neutral position sensor, reverse sensor, and speedo sensor. the first two are on the front side of the tranny. The pic you posted with that sensor, it was either the neutral position or reverse sensor, don't remember which. The other one is on the backside more toward the starter/diff. if you can count three things plugging in, you have the sensor hooked up.

I know you have the sensor, I don't even know if it can be unplugged from the wiring harness. You had to have the sensor to have a working speedo before. You didn't swap the whole MSP wiring harness, did you?

[Kooldino]

ok. so if i were to get this pink gear or w/e...what would i have to do to get it to fit?

As mentioned in this thread eleventeen times, you'd have to get your diff machined. :-P

[Kooldino]

how do i know if i have it or not? that's the issue here. i don't even know where to look to see if i have it.. but it's a msp tranny, why would i not have the msp sensor..

How many lug nuts do your wheels have?

[CrazyCaker]

CrazyCaker says his LSD was machined to fit the speedo gear, but I swear I read someone saying they machined the speedo gear (looks like it's plastic?) to fit on the MSP LSD for use in a non-ABS Protege. It's something I need to look into myself because I'll be installing an MSP LSD too.

technically I guess you could modify the speedo gear by cutting some of the plastic to make it fit, but it is not the "proper" way of doing it.

[boostdprotegelx]

How many lug nuts do your wheels have?
4


http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60567&highlight=msp+speedo+sensor

i found that also. they say nothing about having the lsd machined..just the pink speedo gear.pressed on..which he did evidently by hand...

[boostdprotegelx]

there should be three things plugged into your tranny. neutral position sensor, reverse sensor, and speedo sensor. the first two are on the front side of the tranny. The pic you posted with that sensor, it was either the neutral position or reverse sensor, don't remember which. The other one is on the backside more toward the starter/diff. if you can count three things plugging in, you have the sensor hooked up.

I know you have the sensor, I don't even know if it can be unplugged from the wiring harness. You had to have the sensor to have a working speedo before. You didn't swap the whole MSP wiring harness, did you?
no. stock harness.

[boostdprotegelx]

also, i found this. i just ordered the gear. http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=892975&postcount=5

but honestly, i don't get what would need to be machined to work this out.

[Kooldino]

4


http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60567&highlight=msp+speedo+sensor

i found that also. they say nothing about having the lsd machined..just the pink speedo gear.pressed on..which he did evidently by hand...

If you have a 4 lug hub, then I'm pretty sure you don't have ABS.

And if you don't have ABS, I think you're stuck with opening up the trans.

[CustomMSP]

The MSP Tranny doesn't have a speedo sensor in the tranny, it's just a plastic plug that's formed like the speedo sensor. The MSP gets its speed reading from the ABS sensors on the front knuckles. There are Teeth on the C/V Shafts that the Magnetic ABS Sensor counts as the C/V Shaft rotates.

[boostdprotegelx]

If you have a 4 lug hub, then I'm pretty sure you don't have ABS.

And if you don't have ABS, I think you're stuck with opening up the trans.
yeah. i am pretty sure of that. i bought the speedo gear
but i'll need to know how/what needs to be machined.
cuz it sure didn't look like it really needed it

[boostdprotegelx]

The MSP Tranny doesn't have a speedo sensor in the tranny, it's just a plastic plug that's formed like the speedo sensor. The MSP gets its speed reading from the ABS sensors on the front two tires. There are Teeth on the C/V Shafts that the Magnetic ABS Sensor counts as the C/V Shaft rotates.
right, but it can be fixed w/ a speedo gear put on the lsd correct?

[CustomMSP]

right, but it can be fixed w/ a speedo gear put on the lsd correct?

I don't see why it wouldn't work if you insert that pink speedo gear and get a speedo sensor. You would need the LX ecu, which you already have. I know a person with an MP3 that did exactly that and his is working fine. However, that person installed a Quaife with the speedo gear instead of the MSP LSD. It's the same deal though.

[boostdprotegelx]

I don't see why it wouldn't work if you insert that pink speedo gear and get a speedo sensor. You would need the LX ecu, which you already have. I know a person with an MP3 that did exactly that and his is working fine. However, that person installed a Quaife with the speedo gear instead of the MSP LSD. It's the same deal though.
yes. however, i believe i already have the speed sensor..i don't have abs.

[Kooldino]

yeah. i am pretty sure of that. i bought the speedo gear
but i'll need to know how/what needs to be machined.
cuz it sure didn't look like it really needed it

The diff needs to be machined so that the pink gear will fit onto it.

[boostdprotegelx]

The diff needs to be machined so that the pink gear will fit onto it.
im scared to ask you dana..but..how much..for you to do all this?the 5th gear and the machining..etc.

[Kansei]

Yeah you definitely have the speedo sensor somewhere.. unless it does unplug from the harness and the sensor stays on the tranny when pulled (I don't remember from when I pulled my own tranny in January, I was way busy trying to get my car running so I rushed things haha), in which case you probably don't have it anymore and have a disconnected plug sitting near your tranny.

[boostdprotegelx]

Yeah you definitely have the speedo sensor somewhere.. unless it does unplug from the harness and the sensor stays on the tranny when pulled (I don't remember from when I pulled my own tranny in January, I was way busy trying to get my car running so I rushed things haha), in which case you probably don't have it anymore and have a disconnected plug sitting near your tranny.
i'll check that out. hopefully i can get this fucker running again correctly..soon.

[CustomMSP]

The diff needs to be machined so that the pink gear will fit onto it.

Even the stock MSP LSD?

[CustomMSP]

yes. however, i believe i already have the speed sensor..i don't have abs.

The Speedo Sensor is located inside the LX Tranny that you no longer have based on what I've read in this thread.

[Prodigy]

I didn't feel like reading the entire thread but the MSP tranny does not have a speedo gear, it reads from the abs sensor.

The easiest thing to do is do is to either not use the speedo or
pull the the trans and install a speedo gear + speed sensor on the msp tranny.

OR
-find the msp abs sytem thing.

[boostdprotegelx]

I didn't feel like reading the entire thread but the MSP tranny does not have a speedo gear, it reads from the abs sensor.

The easiest thing to do is do is to either not use the speedo or
pull the the trans and install a speedo gear + speed sensor on the msp tranny.

OR
-find the msp abs sytem thing.
hmm..speed sensor..and how would that be installed and where?

[Prodigy]

The diff needs to be machined so that the pink gear will fit onto it.
No it doesn't.
A dremel to shave a little bit of the speedo gear works.

It's worked well for Rogue's msp LSD when I did his transmission

[CustomMSP]

hmm..speed sensor..and how would that be installed and where?

All you need to do is remove the dummy "sensor" on the top rear side of the tranny and drop the real speed sensor in. Don't forget you still need to crack the tranny open and insert the pink speedo gear though :(

[boostdprotegelx]

All you need to do is remove the dummy "sensor" on the top rear side of the tranny and drop the real speed sensor in. Don't forget you still need to crack the tranny open and insert the pink speedo gear though :(
yeah. i already ordered the gear!!woot.

umm.. can you possibly take a picture for me of where this thing is?

[Kansei]

it's on the backside, just source a speedo sensor and worry about it when you have the tranny out. the plug will probably be fairly obvious.

[TurfBurn]

no machining needed to put the gear on the MSP LSD. It fits on fine without machining, done it plenty of times. You just have to shave a ittle of the inside corner that goes "down" on the LSD of the pink gear and you'll be okay. You do need the pink speedo gear on there or your speedo won't work. Only other way to "fix" it is to convert the car fully to ABS and switch ECU's.

The speedo sensor is on the top back of the transmission, roughly directly below the throttle body if you dropped a line down to the transmission.

Later,

Steve

[miss_steele_msp]

You would need to install that white gear thingy also. And there is were the sensor would plug up.

[boostdprotegelx]

You would need to install that white gear thingy also. And there is were the sensor would plug up.
why would i need that? i think i should have this already....

Steve, can you give me your input?

[boostdprotegelx]

it's on the backside, just source a speedo sensor and worry about it when you have the tranny out. the plug will probably be fairly obvious.
well if you see anyone selling the sensor..lmk.

[Kansei]

You probably got rid of it when you got rid of the transmission.

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[boostdprotegelx]

woohoo i'm damn glad that i have 2 wheel disc.lol.

[Kansei]

I'm really scratching my head as to how it would make a difference whether the car had 2 or 4 wheel disc brakes.

[Kansei]

woohoo i'm damn glad that i have 2 wheel disc.lol.

lol @ 120 dollars for a plastic gear and sensor

[boostdprotegelx]

I'm really scratching my head as to how it would make a difference whether the car had 2 or 4 wheel disc brakes.
4 wheel disc i think has sensors in the rear.

[CustomMSP]

I have a speed sensor I can sell you if you want.

[boostdprotegelx]

lol @ 120 dollars for a plastic gear and sensor
what plastic gear?

[Kansei]

what plastic gear?

the white one that connects to the pink one on the lsd

[boostdprotegelx]

I have a speed sensor I can sell you if you want.
how much?

also wtf does it look like/where does it connect?

BTW would this cause a cel?(the fact that me speedo isn't working)

[boostdprotegelx]

the white one that connects to the pink one on the lsd
shouldnt i have that in my tranny already?

[Kansei]

shouldnt i have that in my tranny already?

nope, the MSP just has a plug instead since it doesn't use the tranny speed sensor. Your LX tranny had it though.

you just need the speedo gear and the speedometer sensor and you should be all set. Make sure there's no plug or plug with speed sensor just hanging near your transmission though. Maybe it just never got hooked back up because there was no place to put it (due to the plug in the MSP tranny)

[miss_steele_msp]

Try and pay attention to the info you are getting. The picture I posted shows the plastic gear you would need, it also shows were it goes. The msp trannies DONT have that. If we did your speedo would work.



how much?

also wtf does it look like/where does it connect?

BTW would this cause a cel?(the fact that me speedo isn't working)

[boostdprotegelx]

Try and pay attention to the info you are getting. The picture I posted shows the plastic gear you would need, it also shows were it goes. The msp trannies DONT have that. If we did your speedo would work.
ok. i'm trying to.

when it says speed sensor, i don't know if it comes w/ the damn wheel or w/e..if you're saying it does come with it, then i'll be fine. no need for getting upset.

[CustomMSP]

This is a sample picture of a Speed Sensor Used in the Protege Manual Transmission. This one came from a 96 protege. The 01 Protege's sensor looks almost the same, but it has a white gear instead of a green one. The Pink Ring Gear that sits on the LSD Drives this Speed Sensor.

[boostdprotegelx]

This is a sample picture of a Speed Sensor Used in the Protege Manual Transmission. This one came from a 96 protege. The 01 Protege's sensor looks almost the same, but it has a white gear instead of a green one. The Pink Ring Gear that sits on the LSD Drives this Speed Sensor.
AHHH
now i fucking get it. THANK YOU MAN. dammit..

how much would you be willing to sell the speed sensor for?

[miss_steele_msp]

ok. i'm trying to.

when it says speed sensor, i don't know if it comes w/ the damn wheel or w/e..if you're saying it does come with it, then i'll be fine. no need for getting upset.
Im not mad And I wasn't implying anything. I was just showing you a pic so you could get an idea of what you needed and where it goes. So that piece that turfburn posted and the pink ring and you should be set. I hope that cleared things up for you. good luck.

[Little Beavis]

Holy thread. . .as stated several times (but I thought I would chime in since the picture posted is of my transmission). You need a speedo sensor (the plug with the white gear that goes into the transmission). There was one of these on your LX tranny. There is not one on the MSP tranny, but one can be put in by removing the "plug" that is in the speedo sensor spot.

As for machining the diff to accept the pink speedo gear. That is an option, but difficult unless you have a machine shop in your garage. Instead (as already pointed out), use a dremel to remove just enough material to press the pink gear on to the MSP differential. Then with that pink gear, the sensor with the white gear, and your stock wiring harness. . .you're ready to go.

[boostdprotegelx]

Im not mad And I wasn't implying anything. I was just showing you a pic so you could get an idea of what you needed and where it goes. So that piece that turfburn posted and the pink ring and you should be set. I hope that cleared things up for you. good luck.
yes it did. misunderstandings happen all the time. thank you for your help. sorry i misunderstood you.

[TurfBurn]

I can't fricken read at the rate this thread is moving..

the white gear is on the sensor... you shouldn't need it seperate.

[boostdprotegelx]

Holy thread. . .as stated several times (but I thought I would chime in since the picture posted is of my transmission). You need a speedo sensor (the plug with the white gear that goes into the transmission). There was one of these on your LX tranny. There is not one on the MSP tranny, but one can be put in by removing the "plug" that is in the speedo sensor spot.

As for machining the diff to accept the pink speedo gear. That is an option, but difficult unless you have a machine shop in your garage. Instead (as already pointed out), use a dremel to remove just enough material to press the pink gear on to the MSP differential. Then with that pink gear, the sensor with the white gear, and your stock wiring harness. . .you're ready to go.
do you have a picture by chance. of what the dremel actually HAS to be used to do? i'd like to be very specific before i attempt this.

[boostdprotegelx]

I can't fricken read at the rate this thread is moving..

the white gear is on the sensor... you shouldn't need it seperate.
lol. thanks for your help steve.

everyone as well

[TurfBurn]

clarification... I'm not sure which way Beavis is referencing the dremel as some people used it on the diff itself. I've sinced switched to doing it differently. I just use a utility knife and chamfer the "down" edge of the speedo gear a bit and then it'll fit fine when you press the bearing on. Easy as that.

I can get you stock Mazda parts if you need... just let me know which ones you want and I can have them ready to ship within 1-2 days.

Later,

Steve

[TurfBurn]

do you have a picture by chance. of what the dremel actually HAS to be used to do? i'd like to be very specific before i attempt this.

That's relatively simple... you have to grind it down enough that when you put the speedo gear on the little chamfers in the feet that will be toward the bearing need to be level with the shoulder on the diff that the bearing can be pressed down to. That's it.

[boostdprotegelx]

That's relatively simple... you have to grind it down enough that when you put the speedo gear on the little chamfers in the feet that will be toward the bearing need to be level with the shoulder on the diff that the bearing can be pressed down to. That's it.
lol. that's explained like it were meant for someone that actually knows what parts are called..(argh) lol nice try. sorry i suck at life.

[CustomMSP]

In the end this will make sense when you have the lsd, the ring gear and the speed sensor in your hand. You can have the speed sensor for $35 shipped.

[sam1]

Dang, what a thread! Sorry the guage cluster didn't work out for you Damian. I guess you have a new project now, huh!? And you thought the msp swap would be easy... :rolleyes:

[boostdprotegelx]

In the end this will make sense when you have the lsd, the ring gear and the speed sensor in your hand. You can have the speed sensor for $35 shipped.
ok cool. i have to get the money together. or. you can send and i'll send the money shortly.(this week) either way. i could use it. i'd like to do the tranny MAYBE this week

does anyone know how hard a 5th gear is to chage?

[Little Beavis]

Pink = speedo gear. White with black border = part of differential. Yellow = part you have to grind out of the diff or the gear in order for the gear to sit down flush on the differential.
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Little%20Beavis/untitled.JPG

[boostdprotegelx]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Little%20Beavis/untitled.JPG
i have NO idea what that is.

[Little Beavis]

Holy shit, hold your breath for a second or two at least. . .

Keep in mind this is just a "cut-away" of the gear and differential that are both round objects. So, if you cut them both in half and looked at one end, it would be similar to this picture.

[CrazyCaker]

LOL at this thread.

Damian, the msp LSD has a "lip" that prevents the pink speedo gear from going on flush (as shown in the pic with yellow). You can remove that material from the LSD like I had done, of chamffer the pink gear to go over it.

[boostdprotegelx]

LOL at this thread.

Damian, the msp LSD has a "lip" that prevents the pink speedo gear from going on flush (as shown in the pic with yellow). You can remove that material from the LSD like I had done, of chamffer the pink gear to go over it.
so you're saying remove the yellow from the white gear. or remove from the pink gear, what would be, the yello?

[boostdprotegelx]

LOL at this thread.

Damian, the msp LSD has a "lip" that prevents the pink speedo gear from going on flush (as shown in the pic with yellow). You can remove that material from the LSD like I had done, of chamffer the pink gear to go over it.
why do you laugh at my thread?

[Kansei]

so you're saying remove the yellow from the white gear. or remove from the pink gear, what would be, the yello?

exactly. Once you have the LSD and the pink gear in front of you it'll all make much more sense.

[boostdprotegelx]

exactly. Once you have the LSD and the pink gear in front of you it'll all make much more sense.
gotcha. well. i guess we're settled then. now i just have to remove the tranny. fix the 5th gear or w/e. and do this. let's see how it all works out.

[Little Beavis]

In my drawing, the "white" part is the differential - not the white gear. Do not remove anything from the white gear of the sensor (I hope that isn't what you're asking). You need to remove the yellow shaded area (which is part of the differential), or you need to remove a similar shaped portion of the pink gear so that it sits over the yellow shaded portion of the differential.

[boostdprotegelx]

In my drawing, the "white" part is the differential - not the white gear. Do not remove anything from the white gear of the sensor (I hope that isn't what you're asking). You need to remove the yellow shaded area (which is part of the differential), or you need to remove a similar shaped portion of the pink gear so that it sits over the yellow shaded portion of the differential.
ahh.. ok.

as i look at steves break down process of the tranny. i slowly am veiring away from doing this work myself.. as i look at things, i don't even know where the fuck the differential goes..how scary is that..dammit.

[Little Beavis]

Ummm. . .that is scary!

It really isn't that bad, but it isn't very easy and won't be easy if you aren't at least halfway decent with tools and things of this nature. You need to remove pins and all sorts of stuff to get this accomplished. It is a PITA for a $15 speedo gear, but I'm a sucker for punishment and anal about how things work, so I know I'd do it. :-)

[boostdprotegelx]

Ummm. . .that is scary!

It really isn't that bad, but it isn't very easy and won't be easy if you aren't at least halfway decent with tools and things of this nature. You need to remove pins and all sorts of stuff to get this accomplished. It is a PITA for a $15 speedo gear, but I'm a sucker for punishment and anal about how things work, so I know I'd do it. :-)
as am i. which is why i've already bought the gear and such. well..

i'll do the job. and hopefully i'll do it good. i'm just worried as it goes back together, i don't wanna fuck something up.

i want to be able to drive like it's a brand new msp. on the other hand.. flyinhawaiiin will prolly be there to work w/ me.

[Little Beavis]

Well Steve did an excellent write up after finishing both my install and his own. Follow that and take lots of pictures and pay attention and you should be fine.

[CustomMSP]

as am i. which is why i've already bought the gear and such. well..

i'll do the job. and hopefully i'll do it good. i'm just worried as it goes back together, i don't wanna fuck something up.

i want to be able to drive like it's a brand new msp. on the other hand.. flyinhawaiiin will prolly be there to work w/ me.
Really, the hardest part of the job is getting the tranny back on and not ripping the c/v shaft seals apart. If you're working on a lift this job is a lot simpler.

[miss_steele_msp]

more pics for you. Thats is the part i believe needs to be cut or dremeled. The other pic shows where the lsd goes. The pink thing should face down where the white gear is.

[xelderx]

PM me if you need anything specific for removing the tranny or opening it up. I just did one last week so it should be fresh on my mind.

[boostdprotegelx]

Really, the hardest part of the job is getting the tranny back on and not ripping the c/v shaft seals apart. If you're working on a lift this job is a lot simpler.
yeah, i won't have a lift. so that sucks. and i must not be good w/ directions.. clearly.i never read shit on doing the motor swap, i just did it.lol. hands on more or less i suppose is the best for me.

but i've been looking at the write up and it scares me. cuz i didn't know i had to take all the gearing out and w/e.

[boostdprotegelx]

PM me if you need anything specific for removing the tranny or opening it up. I just did one last week so it should be fresh on my mind.
mhmm..the whole thing.lol.

[boostdprotegelx]

more pics for you. Thats is the part i believe needs to be cut or dremeled. The other pic shows where the lsd goes. The pink thing should face down where the white gear is.
thank you for these pictures. i'm still trying to figure it out. but i guess if i get them in hand i'll see wtf is needed.

[boostdprotegelx]

still again though, would not having a speedometer, cause a check engine light?/

[Kooldino]

i have NO idea what that is.

Dude, sit and think before you post. You're getting excited and running away with things rather than listening to people.

I understand you're not a trans expert or anything, but if you sit down and think about what people are telling you, it will make more sense than continually asking questions.

Beavis drew this picture to demonstrate that rather than machining the LSD itself (which is what I've always heard of people doing), you could dremel out the corner (essentially removing the radius) OR according to turf, you can just cut the pink plastic gear.

In a nutshell, you have a 90* edge and a chamfered edge. They have to fit together. Modify one or the other. kgo.

[Kooldino]

so you're saying remove the yellow from the white gear. or remove from the pink gear, what would be, the yello?

No, the WHITE gear is is a sensor that sits in the trans housing that meshes with the pink gear. The pink gear spins the white gear (which is part of the sensor), and the sensor sends data to the car.

You need to remove material from either the diff itself or the pink ring gear that fits onto the diff.

[Kooldino]

still again though, would not having a speedometer, cause a check engine light?/

Not to my knowledge.

As for the trans work, I'd only recommend doing it yourself if you're confident that you can do it correctly. There are a lot of little bits and pieces in the trans that could easily get lost and/or overlooked.

If you're not really sure that you can do it correctly, either get someone who has trans experience to help you, take it to a trans shop, or drop it off with me.

[TurfBurn]

I can't remember if the orientation of the gear in the pictures posted is right.. I'm not sure if that is upside down or not.. I "think" it is right though... (I put it on upside down on mine the first time (doh!) so my speedo needle will "rattle" a little sometimes when the gears don't make the engagement they should... minor issue. )

[miss_steele_msp]

yeah, i won't have a lift. so that sucks. and i must not be good w/ directions.. clearly.i never read shit on doing the motor swap, i just did it.lol. hands on more or less i suppose is the best for me.

but i've been looking at the write up and it scares me. cuz i didn't know i had to take all the gearing out and w/e.

I'm not recommending this, but when I changed my lsd out my husband gently pulled up on the shafts by the gears and I just slipped the old out and slipped the new in. I didn't feel like taking the gears off nor did I feel comfortable taking the gears off, because this was my first tranny experience.

[xelderx]

I'm not recommending this, but when I changed my lsd out my husband gently pulled up on the shafts by the gears and I just slipped the old out and slipped the new in. I didn't feel like taking the gears off nor did I feel comfortable taking the gears off, because this was my first tranny experience.

That's how I do it. There is really no need to pull the shafts out for the LSD.

[boostdprotegelx]

That's how I do it. There is really no need to pull the shafts out for the LSD.
ok i'm totally glad you guys said this, because i really didn't wanna pull the gears apart. now that iknow this can be done,, this is how i will go about the work. i feel very confident now, than i can do this as explained.

[Prodigy]

I'm going to finish this thread in one post....

be right back.

[boostdprotegelx]

I'm going to finish this thread in one post....

be right back.
??

[Prodigy]

post delayed for pictures

[boostdprotegelx]

post delayed for pictures
oh. what pictures were you going to put there?

[Little Beavis]

Yes, DO NOT pull all the gears and shafts out. Just lift them up enough to pull the diff out - it will come right out. Though I had to knock out the pin on one of the shift forks in order to get this play (I think it was necessary at the time, but maybe there is a different way). Anyhow, it isn't tough to do either way.

As I said, take a lot of pictures during the process of all things so that you can put them back together, but it isn't the easiest process and you can screw stuff up. Be sure to make sure it shifts correctly before you put it back in too. . .because that would really suck.

[boostdprotegelx]

Yes, DO NOT pull all the gears and shafts out. Just lift them up enough to pull the diff out - it will come right out. Though I had to knock out the pin on one of the shift forks in order to get this play (I think it was necessary at the time, but maybe there is a different way). Anyhow, it isn't tough to do either way.

As I said, take a lot of pictures during the process of all things so that you can put them back together, but it isn't the easiest process and you can screw stuff up. Be sure to make sure it shifts correctly before you put it back in too. . .because that would really suck.
how do you check if it is to shift correctly before it's back in?

[Prodigy]

Read this thread 5 times over before you commit to this project :
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67599

Here's the glorified MSPaint speedo gear picture to explain how it sits in the transmission.

http://i14.tinypic.com/2cmnpcx.jpg

The MSP transmission looks the same minus the pink speedo gear and the speed sensor.


The trans removal is straight foward.

After that, all that has to be removed are :
-a cap
-a pin
-2 locking nuts (which will have to be replaced)
-reverse gears
-spring + ball
-another pin
-all gears at once
-differential

Then to install the speedo gear, you'll have to:
-remove the bearing
-shave/dremel the edges on the pinkspeedo gear
-slide the pink speedo gear on
-press on the bearing (it would better if replaced with a new one)

Then put the white speed sensor gear in place
and reinstall in reverse.

Take your time and take 1000 pics of the process at every possible angle.

[Prodigy]

how do you check if it is to shift correctly before it's back in? you'll be able to see the shift linkages in the right place..

And you'll be able to move the main shift linkage to change gear if you put a screwdriver in it.

Make sure the red is inside the yellow
And that the blue is in that direction.

http://i16.tinypic.com/30crj2o.jpg

[Little Beavis]

how do you check if it is to shift correctly before it's back in?

Six gears. . .put a screwdriver through the shift bushing on the back of the trans, push in and out for 2 gears. Turn screwdriver clockwise and push in and out for other two gears. Then turn screwdriver counter clockwise and push in and out for the last two gears. They will "clunk" in place (this is a Mazda afterall), so you can tell if they all work.

[boostdprotegelx]

Six gears. . .put a screwdriver through the shift bushing on the back of the trans, push in and out for 2 gears. Turn screwdriver clockwise and push in and out for other two gears. Then turn screwdriver counter clockwise and push in and out for the last two gears. They will "clunk" in place (this is a Mazda afterall), so you can tell if they all work.
that part of it seems like a bitch...dammit.

[CustomMSP]

that part of it seems like a bitch...dammit.

Actually that's the easiest part of the whole job.

[boostdprotegelx]

Actually that's the easiest part of the whole job.
lol. did that thing send out btw?

[kyle's protege5]

Anybody still checking this thread? I'm doing the atx-mtx conversion right now, and i had some questions.

The donor car was an abs car and mine is not. So i know i will need to add the speedo sensor. The pink gear is already in the tranny, i looked. Will i be able to use the abs cars computer, or will i need to track down a non abs mtx computer?

Also the harness i got does not have the plug for the speedo sensor. So i will need to add it too. would it just go to the place on the ecu where the ABS sends its speed signal?

I see that the atx and the mtx both use pin 58 for their speed sensors. The diagram does not say where the ABS goes, so i assume its also pin 58? Should i just keep my harness, and change the plug out so that it will plug into the mtx speedo sensor?

Also i heard than you can keep the atx ECU and just change/add the plugs for the nuetral switch (its pin 64 on both) and the speed sensors (pin 58 on both). Is that true?

Lastly why is peoples reverse lights not working? I cannot find a difference in the ecu wiring for that.

Any help would be greatly apreciated!

[TheMAN]

the ECU will be fine
you're better off finding a non-ABS harness as there's a bunch of differences that'll make it tough for you to convert over since you're asking these questions to begin with

[Brian MP5T]

Subs

[kyle's protege5]

the ECU will be fine
you're better off finding a non-ABS harness as there's a bunch of differences that'll make it tough for you to convert over since you're asking these questions to begin with

When you say the ecu will be fine. you mean the new mtx ABS one i got?
As far as the harness, if i can find a non abs one, it would be easier. But i dont mind wiring things up. So if i can find out whats different, which appears to be just the speedo. I'll just change it.

Can someone please look at the clutch pedal, and tell me where the grey switch on the front of the assy goes too? The back one on the side of the assy, goes to a white plug, with rather thick wires that is already in the exhisting harness.

If you click on the blue link in my sig, i have another thread started with issues, if you can offer any help.

[TheMAN]

there is no difference on the ECU between the ABS and non-ABS cars
a manual ECU is a manual ECU

dude, you don't know what you're getting into
you're already asking about what wire goes where... if you start fucking with this some more you're going to be asking even more questions about other wires

you already spent money on buying all this crap for your car, save yourself time and MONEY by buying the wiring diagrams book!

[kyle's protege5]

there is no difference on the ECU between the ABS and non-ABS cars
a manual ECU is a manual ECU Thats good. I didnt think there was but I'm just making sure of everything.
dude, you don't know what you're getting into
you're already asking about what wire goes where... if you start fucking with this some more you're going to be asking even more questions about other wires
I've built my entire turbo from from scratch, put all of the electronics in by myself, done all of the dyno tuning. I've turboed my friends s-10, and my bike along with 2 others. I'm the maintenance director for a rather large oil refinery, and a licensed electrician that mainly specializes in systems and controls. I dont need you flaming. Nobody can possibly know everything, thats what this forum is for, to ask others for their combined knowledge. I do know what i was getting into. I've done research on this for over 2 yrs, ever since i put the turbo in. The only wrench thrown in the mix was the donor car being ABS. And that really is not a big deal. There have been several others that have done this swap, with less knowledge and experience than me and been succesfull. So i'm not worried. I'm just over cautious and would like as much input as i can from others that may know things i do not.
you already spent money on buying all this crap for your car, save yourself time and MONEY by buying the wiring diagrams book!
just downloaded the wiring and complete parts diagram from ugly.net

[gone_fishin]

Lastly why is peoples reverse lights not working? I cannot find a difference in the ecu wiring for that.

The reverse lights are wired through the roof harness, not the dash harness-- that's why. Your roof harness is incompatible with the sender on the new tranny. You'll need to purchase the respective roof harness and swap it out, or put your reverse lights on a lighted SPST switch.

[gone_fishin]

I've been through your exact situation, I've completely swapped the complete 03 msp power and drivetrain over into the my formerly 1999 1.8, mtx. All the bullshit and expenses involved in converting the trannys from the donor originally equiped with ABS, to one that measures speed readings internally all for a functioning instrument cluster is not worth it in my opinion. Get an ADL like me and be done with it.

[TheMAN]

Thats good. I didnt think there was but I'm just making sure of everything.

I've built my entire turbo from from scratch, put all of the electronics in by myself, done all of the dyno tuning. I've turboed my friends s-10, and my bike along with 2 others. I'm the maintenance director for a rather large oil refinery, and a licensed electrician that mainly specializes in systems and controls. I dont need you flaming. Nobody can possibly know everything, thats what this forum is for, to ask others for their combined knowledge. I do know what i was getting into. I've done research on this for over 2 yrs, ever since i put the turbo in. The only wrench thrown in the mix was the donor car being ABS. And that really is not a big deal. There have been several others that have done this swap, with less knowledge and experience than me and been succesfull. So i'm not worried. I'm just over cautious and would like as much input as i can from others that may know things i do not.

just downloaded the wiring and complete parts diagram from ugly.net


all the "wiring diagrams" you find online to download are incomplete and DO NOT show all the systems that you will need to look at to properly wire up what you need

that's good you're an electrician, but don't ever give me that "I've built an engine, built a turbo car, etc"... turning wrenches and slapping parts together is completely different from electronics! there's many people here who are decent at doing that but suck at electronics

anyhow, there's already enough differences between the manual harness from the auto harness that it'll take a fair amount of time to convert over... it's not impossible but it's not a walk in the park... it's definately time consuming... but since you got ABS in the mix, it's going to be one big headache

and I do hope your P5 does not have activematic... if you do like gimpo2 did, then you're in for a bigger mess


if any of you think this shit is bad, try fucking with all the new school "fordazdas" (the 3, 5, 6, etc)... there's even more electronic bullshit and wiring differences that basically makes it impossible to convert or change anything

[kyle's protege5]

Get an ADL like me and be done with it.
ADL?

[kyle's protege5]

all the "wiring diagrams" you find online to download are incomplete and DO NOT show all the systems that you will need to look at to properly wire up what you need
I'll get what i need then
anyhow, there's already enough differences between the manual harness from the auto harness that it'll take a fair amount of time to convert over... it's not impossible but it's not a walk in the park... it's definately time consuming... but since you got ABS in the mix, it's going to be one big headache
I think i'm leaning towards just modifying the abs mtx harness, if i cannot find a non-ABS harness here relatively soon. I've got them both out on the garage floor, and the only difference is the obvious tranny plugs and the one having the large white abs plug. There is the extra individual plugs behind the the strut towers that i'm not sure of, and thats it.

and I do hope your P5 does not have activematic... if you do like gimpo2 did, then you're in for a bigger mess
Nope! One less pain in the ass.

if any of you think this shit is bad, try fucking with all the new school "fordazdas" (the 3, 5, 6, etc)... there's even more electronic bullshit and wiring differences that basically makes it impossible to convert or change anything

I know this is a pain, but it has to be done. No atx can really take what i'm gonna be putting at it, or have been putting at this one. Lentech is way out of line on their prices, so thats out of the question.
I have WAY too much time, effort, and money in changing just about everything on this car to start over again. I bought this car totalled and rebuilt it myself, (well except for the paint). There is very little thats been left alone on it. So i'm just gonna have to do it ya know?

[kyle's protege5]

The reverse lights are wired through the roof harness, not the dash harness-- that's why. Your roof harness is incompatible with the sender on the new tranny. You'll need to purchase the respective roof harness and swap it out, or put your reverse lights on a lighted SPST switch.

when you say incompatible with the new sender, is it just because of plugs and wiring, or is it a different kind of signal all together?

couldnt i have the reverse switch trigger a relay that would then turn on the reverse lights? Skip the replacing the roof harness then?

[kyle's protege5]

well I went over the wire harness from plug to every last plug. I had to make some changesbecause of the abs, so i put the harness the way it should have been for the mtx non abs. I put it all in and wired up the battery. Checked the reverse switch by jumping the 2 prongs together and the reverse lights came on perfectly! HER-AY! The speedo checks out from dash to sending unit, so it should work too. this is awesome.

The 2 plugs i was unsure of were the left and right front wheel sensors for the abs. I removed them as well as all of the other wires that were only there for the abs. Looks as good as new now.

As far as the wiring digrams i got, i got them from, crap not sure, i'll find it, its on the laptop. Anyways, they were SUPER detailed. Told everylast system, from start to finish, the wiring colors, a break down of every plug in the entire car, very, very helpful. I'll post a link when i find them on the other computer.

So..... so far so good!