It's Time For A Rebellion, Better Yet A Revolution. My Guns Will Be Loaded!

[skylinemonster]

Ok people, all my mazdaspeed 6 owners, and probably speed 3 owners as well. It's time for all of us to come together and rise up against this company and I mean it. We pay too much money for these vehicles to not be given the time of day when Mazda is 100% at fault here. THAT FAULT IS THE DAMN SMOKE COMING OUT OF THE TAILPIPE. The smoke is blueish, and it smells like burning oil because IT IS BURNING OIL and in my situation and i'm sure 1000's of many others, the factory turbo seals are to blame.

This is what is happening: I bought the car with low mileage. I never really noticed anything with the factory exhaust. That is because there are 2 cats on the downpipe and a couple more on the exhaust before the smoke exists the vehicle and by this time it has been filtered quite a bit. The first mod I did was a magnaflow cat back. At this point I started to see the blueish white puff start to roll out, when my car is idling, or sitting for a few minutes. I'll explain why this happens during idling in minute. I would then have to drive the vehicle for a half a mile and somewhat get on it, to blow it all out of the system and then everything was fine. Then I changed the downpipe to the cp-e with cat 3 inch.

Now just so you guys understand, the performance hasn't been hindered due to this smoke. The car performs excellent. With the cp-e 3inch the smoke takes less time to accumulate when the car is sitting and idling, and it is much more apparant. When I took the stock downpipe off and installed cp-e one yesterday, I put 2 + 2 together. You have to remove the factory intercooler when you install the downpipe, and when I did, there it was. A pool of oil sitting in the exit side side of the intercooler, right before the throttle plate.

PLEASE SEE THE PICTURE I TOOK BELOW. The only way for oil to get here in a pressurized system is for it come from the charge point which is the turbo. The oil is actually exiting the turbo seal on the compressor side, going through the turbo and then the intercooler, to the engine. I am actually boosting oil. I know this for sure because the hotside of the turbo is dry, the inside of the factory downpipe is dry and not dark, so it has to come from the compressor side. Also, the fact that there is such a short amount of distance or travel between the turbo and the throttle/intake, the oil is going to get in the cylinder's very easily.

I'm sure with a front mount setup which has many more feet of plumbing and tends to go against gravity in most situations, the smoke will not be noticeable, because the oil will not make it very far past the exit side of the front mount intercooler due to most piping going vertical at this point, and if it does it will not be collected but much more misted oil, not having a major effect on the smoking.

Now just so you guys understand, the smoke happens during idling and not driving because the oil isnt being broken up and boosted into the motor in small amounts, hence (misted). Technically, it is still burning while you are driving but not enough where you can see it. Idling on the other hand requires very low pressure, or vaccuum, so the oil is kept together as it makes its way into the engine, almost like a river affect, and not mist affect like when under boost. I hope this makes sense.

So all in all, THE FAILURE IS THE FACTORY TURBO SEALS. I would like everybody to chime in who have had this happen to them, pop off your intercooler, its only 2 hose clamps and a few mounting bolts, and check the exit side of the intercooler for oil. The entrance may have a bit as well obviously. If others have had dealerships give them a hard time, please reply. If others have had dealerships fix this problem for them, please give the name and address and phone number of the dealership and provide names of employees if possible.

I AM BUILDING A CASE CONTAINING ALL OF THIS LITERATURE, OTHER POSTS, PICTURES I HAVE TAKEN, BEFORE I GO TO THE DEALERSHIP AND HAVE THEM CORRECT THIS, SO I DON'T HAVE THEM DENY ME SERVICE DUE TO AN INTAKE, DOWNPIPE AND EXHAUST, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DUE WHY OIL IS EXITING THE TURBO. I'D LIKE TO THANK THE MAZDA COMMUNITY FOR YOUR TIME AND DEDICATION AND HAVING AND THIS MAZDA FORUM FOR CREATING THE PLATFORM WHERE WE CAN ALL COME TOGETHER TO HELP EACH OTHER.

[Donas64]

I feel your pain man. I'm not a Speed Owner but after seeing all the drama the MSP guys had to deal with and then the Power fluctuation issues of the MS6 guys, and also the wildly varying Dyno and power output numbers of the MS3 guys I've promised myself that until Mazdaspeed gets their act together and starts making a consistent product I will never consider buying a turbocharged car from them. You guys should fight this and get them to to something or the Mazdaspeed brand will come to be known for half-baked cars and shoddy motors and as A Mazda enthusiast I don't want to see that happen.

PS: I must also commend you for taking your time to write out a detailed explanation of your grievance and not just come in guns blazing spewing profanities. It lends your argument credibility.

[jcgemt2003]

Were exactly again should I be lookn for this oil build up? (The easiest spot to get to,Im not very handy with tools)

[DaPortugee]

I have had this issue and had my turbo, manifold and pre-cat replaced by my dealer. Have you talked to the dealer yet? My experience is that I get quit a bit out of my dealer when I come in with a firm but very pleasant attitude. So if you haven't, try bein cool at first. Just my 2cents.

Anyway I had the exact same issue with smoke. The dealer was great when I brought it in and took it, diog'ed it for two days and called me to say they needed to replace the turbo and pre-cat (warm-up cat/whatever they wanna call it). the manafold was replaced because they did something to it during the disassemble. Thats the good news.

Now here is the bad news. It took Mazda 22 days to get the parts to the dealer! My thoughts are that some of the blame falls on me. I did spool it pretty hard when cold on a somewhat frequent basis which isn't very good on the seals but the dealer gave me no problems about the mods. I dont have a downpipe tho, just a CAI and custom cat back.

My dealer is awesome though. Never gives me any problems about anything I do to the car as long as it doesn't directly affect anything.
the dealer is
Tracy Mazda in Tracy CA

Hope thats helpful

[skylinemonster]

Were exactly again should I be lookn for this oil build up? (The easiest spot to get to,Im not very handy with tools)

Ok, first remove the black engine cover. There are two 10mm bolts holding it in place. Then remove the blow-off valve recirculation hose, and a small vacuum line. You can take both of these off using needle nose pliers, or standard pliers. Then loosen the hose clamps on both ends of the intercooler, one is by the throttle body and the other is the turbo outlet is, both are very accessible. You can use a flathead screwdriver or an 8mm wrench to do this. Then the last thing to do before you remove the intercooler is remove three 12mm golden bolts holding the intercooler in place. Once you take off the intercooler, look inside of it for oil saturating the inner lining of the black hose couplers, and look inside the turbo outlet (back of the engine bay), and look inside the entrance to the throttle body, (front of the engine bay) for oil build up. If your car is smoking, I can almost guarantee you have the same problem I have.

[skylinemonster]

I have had this issue and had my turbo, manifold and pre-cat replaced by my dealer. Have you talked to the dealer yet? My experience is that I get quit a bit out of my dealer when I come in with a firm but very pleasant attitude. So if you haven't, try bein cool at first. Just my 2cents.

Anyway I had the exact same issue with smoke. The dealer was great when I brought it in and took it, diog'ed it for two days and called me to say they needed to replace the turbo and pre-cat (warm-up cat/whatever they wanna call it). the manafold was replaced because they did something to it during the disassemble. Thats the good news.

Now here is the bad news. It took Mazda 22 days to get the parts to the dealer! My thoughts are that some of the blame falls on me. I did spool it pretty hard when cold on a somewhat frequent basis which isn't very good on the seals but the dealer gave me no problems about the mods. I dont have a downpipe tho, just a CAI and custom cat back.

My dealer is awesome though. Never gives me any problems about anything I do to the car as long as it doesn't directly affect anything.
the dealer is
Tracy Mazda in Tracy CA

Hope thats helpful

Thank you very much. This is exactly the type of information I am looking for. Thank you for the quick reply.

[TheMAN]

you might get more responses if you actually posted your rant in paragraphs instead of one big blob of text

[skylinemonster]

you might get more responses if you actually posted your rant in paragraphs instead of one big blob of text

Thanks for the tip.

[jcgemt2003]

Does it look like this? (son of a bitch!):mad:

[vert]

Does it look like this? (son of a bitch!):mad:
Since I am not real familiar with turbo motors, would a catch can help in this situation?

[Captain KRM P5]

Since I am not real familiar with turbo motors, would a catch can help in this situation?

if the turbo itself is consuming oil a catch can would not resolve the issue

[kurfgator]

Could this be caused by the pcv system?

[Captain KRM P5]

i was at Mazda today and brought up the issue because one of my customers called with the same complaint. the technician i deal with is 20+ year veteran of mazda, the number two or three rated master technician in the world depending on which internal document you want to reference. he says, and i kid you not, that it is in mazda's design specifications for this engine to use a quart or more of oil between every oil change (3000 miles vs 5000 for non-turbo engines). i will see if i can get a printout of this and post it here, but he was adamant that this came straight from Mazda USA and that oil consumption is, within these guidelines, normal and expected.

[skylinemonster]

if the turbo itself is consuming oil a catch can would not resolve the issue

You bring up a good point about a catch can not working if the turbo is consuming oil. I am wondering though since the leak is not on the hotside, but a loose seal on the compressor side, a catch can may fix this problem because it will either catch oil before the intercooler.

[skylinemonster]

Could this be caused by the pcv system?

Could you please elaborate on how the pcv valve could possibly cause this?

[skylinemonster]

Does it look like this? (son of a bitch!):mad:

I appreciate you taking off your intercooler in such a timely manner. That is exactly how mine looks. This problem must be evident in every last mzr disi turbo engine. I don't feel so bad anymore thinking I am the only one. VERT brought up a great idea about a catch can. Does anyone know of such a can on the market designed for our setup?

[ForceFed]

Almost all turbo motors consume some amount of oil and its normal. Even brand new, the system is put under extreme pressure and will inherently have blow by(turbo seal) because of the design. And the smoke you have pictured looks like normal steam from the system on a cold day?

[buit9110]

i have the same problem. add me to the count. damn it.

[DaPortugee]

Almost all turbo motors consume some amount of oil and its normal. Even brand new, the system is put under extreme pressure and will inherently have blow by(turbo seal) because of the design. And the smoke you have pictured looks like normal steam from the system on a cold day?

Its true that the motor will consume oil but he is saying this is "blue" smoke not steam. The question is how long does it linger?

If its gone 6 ft from the car then no worries but if the clound floats down the street then there is a problem.

The bottom line here is yes your motor will consume oil but if its enough to get oil smoke out of your tailpipe there is something wrong.

[trees]

i was at Mazda today and brought up the issue because one of my customers called with the same complaint. the technician i deal with is 20+ year veteran of mazda, the number two or three rated master technician in the world depending on which internal document you want to reference. he says, and i kid you not, that it is in mazda's design specifications for this engine to use a quart or more of oil between every oil change (3000 miles vs 5000 for non-turbo engines). i will see if i can get a printout of this and post it here, but he was adamant that this came straight from Mazda USA and that oil consumption is, within these guidelines, normal and expected.

Hope to see that print out, Thanks for looking into this.

[speed6guy]

Hey man im having the same problem with my MS6. It started when I installed the CPE downpipe. An the Magnaflow catback. CPE told me that their test car did the same thing. That the turbo seals allowed oil to bypass
thru the seals. There's nothing that can be done unless Mazda redesigns the turbo. You can also upgrade the turbo and it will stop thats what im going to
do. Also I have been holding my rpms above 1200 when im stoped any less it will smoke alot " you can not see the back of the car". You can see my other post on here @ anyone ms6 smoke?

[wannabe]

seems like everyone is noticing this after installing exhausts....is it possible that its just more evident once an exhaust is installed? I have not noticed this in my car...

[Afroman]

seems like everyone is noticing this after installing exhausts....is it possible that its just more evident once an exhaust is installed? I have not noticed this in my car...


Well when you go to a catless downpipe and a larger exhaust with a less restrictive muffler I would expect it to be easier for burnt oil to make it all the way to the tail pipes.

I suggest instead of going to Mazda you just go outside and scream untill your lungs give out and you pop a blood vessel in your neck. The go inside and have someone kick you in the sack. After that curl up in a ball and cry.

By doing that you will have the same effect as trying to get money from Mazda, but you'll save gas money because you wont have to drive to the dealer.

[Captain KRM P5]

Well when you go to a catless downpipe and a larger exhaust with a less restrictive muffler I would expect it to be easier for burnt oil to make it all the way to the tail pipes.

I suggest instead of going to Mazda you just go outside and scream untill your lungs give out and you pop a blood vessel in your neck. The go inside and have someone kick you in the sack. After that curl up in a ball and cry.

By doing that you will have the same effect as trying to get money from Mazda, but you'll save gas money because you wont have to drive to the dealer.

humorous, but a tad harsh don't ya think? ;)

[ssinstaller]

I'm not trying to sue Mazda. The system they designed worked--the cats burned off what little oil made it past the seals--but created a huge bottleneck in the process. I removed the cats, so now I see a little smoke every now and again. Mazda didn't cause the problem--I did, it's a price I'mm will to pay for the extra power.... Unless I start to notice oil loss on the dipstick there really isn't a problem IMO...

Hey man im having the same problem with my MS6. It started when I installed the CPE downpipe. An the Magnaflow catback. CPE told me that their test car did the same thing. That the turbo seals allowed oil to bypass
thru the seals. There's nothing that can be done unless Mazda redesigns the turbo. You can also upgrade the turbo and it will stop thats what im going to
do. Also I have been holding my rpms above 1200 when im stoped any less it will smoke alot " you can not see the back of the car". You can see my other post on here @ anyone ms6 smoke?

If your smoking that bad you might have a legitimate problem. I have only had smoke for a minute or two a couple of times after a long warmup. If your getting it all the time you might have grounds to get a new turbo...

seems like everyone is noticing this after installing exhausts....is it possible that its just more evident once an exhaust is installed? I have not noticed this in my car...

yep..

I didn't ever notice this until I swapped out the downpipe and got rid of the two huge stock cats.

[DSMConvert]

Could you please elaborate on how the pcv valve could possibly cause this?

This is a very common issue with turbo cars. Without going into an elaborate reply, here is a way to eliminate it as the culprit. You can either A. pull the line off your intake and put an inline( the small clear plastic ones on the "chrome isle at Autozone) fuel filter on it and plug the hole on your intake tube, or reconnect it to the intake tube with another piece of hose. Clean out your intake plumbing system first and they drive it for a week and see if the fuel filter starts to get dirty. Below are the 3 outcomes you can have:

1. Fuel filter is soaked in oil and you notice less/no oil in intake piping - Problem Solved

2. Fuel filter is kinda dirty, but same amt of oil in the piping - Problem is your turbo seals. PCV wasn't contributing that much to the issue, but I'd still leave the filter on.

3. Filter is clean, still go oil. I think we know the answer here.

This is the same as a catch can, I just like the fuel filter b/c its cheap, easy, and I can pop my hood and instantly see whats going on without have to get my hands dirty or take something apart.

I should also add that I'm assuming you checked the condition of your pcv to ensure it wasn't clogged with oil already. If its clogged it will allow pressure to buidl in the system causing oil to leak from the turbo seals...

[Hate]

So what I'm taking home from this thread so far is the smoke is by design, and if I don't want to see it, leave the exahust alone? I hope this isn't the case...

[tru-boost]

let me chime in on this. i own a 2007 MS3 and have this issue BAD at only 3000 miles !! i did not take off the IC to look yet but i'm sure this is the problem. i have a prtotype 3" turboback system on the car now and ever since it was on the car it has been smoking.
a catch can will not help. a catch can catches oil that is slipping past the pcv valve and getting into the intake. that is not the case here. the oil is leaking from the turbo, there is no way to "catch" it. looks like a big turbo upgrade is in order !!!!

[DSMConvert]

hmm ok thats what I was trying to determine was if this was an actual design flaw in the turbo seals or standard blow by from postive crank case pressures... if thats the case that is just plain stupid and there should be a tsb for is, it is NOT acceptable to have the oil seals leak oil...

[Booster]

I'm not trying to sue Mazda. The system they designed worked--the cats burned off what little oil made it past the seals--but created a huge bottleneck in the process. I removed the cats, so now I see a little smoke every now and again. Mazda didn't cause the problem--I did, it's a price I'mm will to pay for the extra power.... Unless I start to notice oil loss on the dipstick there really isn't a problem IMO...



If your smoking that bad you might have a legitimate problem. I have only had smoke for a minute or two a couple of times after a long warmup. If your getting it all the time you might have grounds to get a new turbo...



yep..

I didn't ever notice this until I swapped out the downpipe and got rid of the two huge stock cats.

I already have the CPE DP w CAT and The Magnaflow waiting for instalation. Will my car Smoke? What I heard about disconecting the battery of the car?

[Red 6]

A catch can would be a very good idea and may indeed cure the problem. The PCV sends oil vapor into the intake plumbing for the turbo to injest and send to the motor for burning. If you capture this oil or put a VTA filter on the crank case, no more oil vapor will enter the turbo and combustion cycle.

[tru-boost]

wanna find out where it is comming from for sure ??
take off the inlet pipe on the turbo (the one that connect to the air box)
if there is oil in it then it is the pcv....if it is dry it is coming from the turbo.

[skylinemonster]

wanna find out where it is comming from for sure ??
take off the inlet pipe on the turbo (the one that connect to the air box)
if there is oil in it then it is the pcv....if it is dry it is coming from the turbo.

Yeah that makes sense and would definitely reveal the source. I may do that tomorrow. I am beginning to get fed up with this car. Mazda is a so-so company, especially for the enthusiast and trying to envoke the passion for speed, with this zoom-zoom nonsense, without having the ammo to back it up. My speed 6 is quick but it isn't a show stopper. I'd still be afraid to race cobras, evos, sti's, etc. You just have to do so much and spend so much to get small increments of performance. I've spent almost 1500 dollars for a downpipe/exhaust/CAI and about another 1200 for lighter rims and tires, and its definitely quicker than stock, but then you pace with stock evos, get creamed by sti's with bolt ons, and then get murdered by cobras with pulley crap and x-pipes. This direct injection is really holding us back. We are running 15 psi on small turbos, with limited options for fuel management if any. Not to mention I don't think the 4 wheel drive system is anywhere as advanced as it could be. My beef is with mazda being too soft towards performance and having poor service towards their customers. Prime example, rx7 to rx8. How can anyone in their right mind call that a step up. I just shrug my shoulders and shake my head.

[Killer]

My thinking is you didn't research what you were buying. The mazdaspeed 6 was not designed to be an EVo/STI/Cobra killer. Don't blame Mazda...blame yourself for not doing the proper research prior to buying the car.

[skylinemonster]

My thinking is you didn't research what you were buying. The mazdaspeed 6 was not designed to be an EVo/STI/Cobra killer. Don't blame Mazda...blame yourself for not doing the proper research prior to buying the car.

oh i researched it and never said the speed6 was to kill those vehicles. the speed6 numbers on paper are close if not the same to vehicles in its class. it's just the way the vehicle is set up, the fact that we are not in japan, and ford's influence. it's not about my research. ITS ABOUT MAZDAS LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE IN TUNING VEHICLES. i have owned evo's and wrx's in the past, and my share of honda's and they all had one thing in common. they were well setup from the factory. for example, never in my life have i encountered a type of vehicle where there is a recall for a LACK OF POWER and then the so called fix really isnt a fix, but a second chance at modifying the tables. I did not see any positive effects. when i went to the dealership in some of my past sport sedans, they loved to see me, they loved to hear me, all the sales guys would come out and chat, no matter what your vehicle had that was aftermarket. mazda is not like that at all.

but to get back to reality, the thing that bothers me the most is no matter how i slice it or dice it, i cant break it down to my friends and say "HEY GUYS, DON'T WORRY, IT'S SUPPOSED TO SMOKE, MAZDA DID THAT ON PURPOSE FROM THE FACTORY. I'VE TALKED TO THEM AND THEY SAID IT'S OK. SO, WHERE DO YOU GUYS WANT TO GO CRUISE, I HAVE TO STAY IN CONSTANT MOTION SO I DON'T SMOKE UP THE PLACE." to most that would be considered sarcasm and lunacy, but to us mazda guys, could it be the sad truth?

[Hate]

oh i researched it and never said the speed6 was to kill those vehicles. the speed6 numbers on paper are close if not the same to vehicles in its class. it's just the way the vehicle is set up, the fact that we are not in japan, and ford's influence. it's not about my research. ITS ABOUT MAZDAS LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE IN TUNING VEHICLES. i have owned evo's and wrx's in the past, and my share of honda's and they all had one thing in common. they were well setup from the factory. for example, never in my life have i encountered a type of vehicle where there is a recall for a LACK OF POWER and then the so called fix really isnt a fix, but a second chance at modifying the tables. I did not see any positive effects. when i went to the dealership in some of my past sport sedans, they loved to see me, they loved to hear me, all the sales guys would come out and chat, no matter what your vehicle had that was aftermarket. mazda is not like that at all.

but to get back to reality, the thing that bothers me the most is no matter how i slice it or dice it, i cant break it down to my friends and say "HEY GUYS, DON'T WORRY, IT'S SUPPOSED TO SMOKE, MAZDA DID THAT ON PURPOSE FROM THE FACTORY. I'VE TALKED TO THEM AND THEY SAID IT'S OK. SO, WHERE DO YOU GUYS WANT TO GO CRUISE, I HAVE TO STAY IN CONSTANT MOTION SO I DON'T SMOKE UP THE PLACE." to most that would be considered sarcasm and lunacy, but to us mazda guys, could it be the sad truth?

How about it smokes because the mods I put on weren't designed by Mazda and because of the car's design, it causes smoke?

[wannabe]

How about it smokes because the mods I put on weren't designed by Mazda and because of the car's design, it causes smoke?

(werd)

its not the car's fault.

[Booster]

No mather if the mods wher done by Mazda. theres no excuse for this turbo to be leking by the oil seals even if it is a small leak.

I see a turbo upgrade in my future.

[Afroman]

Well of coarse you should be afraid to race cobras, they are 390 hp 390 tq stock on a big V8. They should wipe the floor with us.

If you wanted to race EVo's and Sti's than thats the car you should have bought. I knew when I bought this car its

1.) A sedan FIRST

2.) Sports Car SECOND.

For some thats a hard thing to grasp, but its the truth.


If you really want to prove your point to Mazda you will have to get pictures and proof from a Non-modified speed6. That is the only way they will take you seriously. Right now you have a modified car with the cats removed. Most dealerships wont even touch a car with the cats removed due to EPA fines.

I wouldnt say Mazda doesnt know what they are doing. This engine is great. 280 ponies and Torque with a small Four Cylinder floats my boat just fine. The real problem is that this is a niche' car. Low production and Low Sales. That means limited aftermarket appeal, which is why there arent tons and tons of choices for aftermarket equipment.

[wannabe]

Well of coarse you should be afraid to race cobras, they are 390 hp 390 tq stock on a big V8. They should wipe the floor with us.

If you wanted to race EVo's and Sti's than thats the car you should have bought. I knew when I bought this car its

1.) A sedan FIRST

2.) Sports Car SECOND.

For some thats a hard thing to grasp, but its the truth.


If you really want to prove your point to Mazda you will have to get pictures and proof from a Non-modified speed6. That is the only way they will take you seriously. Right now you have a modified car with the cats removed. Most dealerships wont even touch a car with the cats removed due to EPA fines.

I wouldnt say Mazda doesnt know what they are doing. This engine is great. 280 ponies and Torque with a small Four Cylinder floats my boat just fine. The real problem is that this is a niche' car. Low production and Low Sales. That means limited aftermarket appeal, which is why there are tons and tons of choices for aftermarket equipment.

well stated.

[Donas64]

So is there any case of this condition happening to a stock MS6?

or how about an MS6 modded with Mazdaspeed parts?

[Speed6 Guy]

No mather if the mods wher done by Mazda. theres no excuse for this turbo to be leking by the oil seals even if it is a small leak.

I see a turbo upgrade in my future.


Seeing you say this takes all the wind out of your sail for me. If you are going to put and aftermarket turbo (witch will void every warrantee in the book) on then why bitch. For those of us not planning this, if there is a smoke issue lets document it and get something put together to send to Mazda and see if we can make a difference. Don’t just sit and bitch, join together so our voice is heard. Not rise up with gunss blazin.

Also there are too many threads that go off on tangents and don’t have good discussion and this is becoming one of them.

[Rawyzf]

Seeing you say this takes all the wind out of your sail for me. If you are going to put and aftermarket turbo (witch will void every warrantee in the book) on then why bitch. For those of us not planning this, if there is a smoke issue lets document it and get something put together to send to Mazda and see if we can make a difference. Don’t just sit and bitch, join together so our voice is heard. Not rise up with gunss blazin.

Also there are too many threads that go off on tangents and don’t have good discussion and this is becoming one of them.

Well put Mod.

[tru-boost]

i must agree that i am HIGHLY dissappointed in the way mazda setup these cars. why put on a turbo that is inefficient even in stock form ?? then the slightest power increase from a little bolt on puts it well past its abilities, and causes it to burn up....... great engineering !! and controlling boost by closing the throttle plate ??? who the hell thought of that brilliant idea.
so now at high rpm not only do you only have 5psi but you also only get 50-70% throttle opening. i though my MS3 was going to be great off the bat and just need a few bolt ons to be awesome...not the case. i will have to do EXTENSIVE modding to make this car what it should have been from mazda.
any car that smokes like mine just from an exhaust (mine is catted) has issues, and is made with poor quality.

[DSMConvert]

so have we ruled out the pcv as the oil leak culprit? If yes then let me know and I'll bring it up to the service advisor. I have to go there tomorrow for the fuel door and my car is stock, so if its the turbo seals are leaking I can pull my intercooler pipe off tonight and take pics to show them.

[Booster]

i must agree that i am HIGHLY dissappointed in the way mazda setup these cars. why put on a turbo that is inefficient even in stock form ?? then the slightest power increase from a little bolt on puts it well past its abilities, and causes it to burn up....... great engineering !! and controlling boost by closing the throttle plate ??? who the hell thought of that brilliant idea.
so now at high rpm not only do you only have 5psi but you also only get 50-70% throttle opening. i though my MS3 was going to be great off the bat and just need a few bolt ons to be awesome...not the case. i will have to do EXTENSIVE modding to make this car what it should have been from mazda.
any car that smokes like mine just from an exhaust (mine is catted) has issues, and is made with poor quality.

I can't tell you how munch I agree with you!

[skylinemonster]

I can't tell you how munch I agree with you!

I agree with you guys. For everyone else, stop saying its not that type of car. A subaru legacy is NOT that type of car, and with less horse off the assembly line, it takes less money to get more power than us. The fact is Mazda aimed for it to be THAT TYPE OF CAR, and they have fallen short. You do not make a vehicle all wheel drive, turbo charged, 1600psi fuel pressure, 6 speed for nothing, then badge it as speed.

Go by the v6 if you are hesitant in touching the vehicle, or worried about warranties, b/c frankly i can care less about a factory warranty now. I'm tired of finding out everyone has the same problems across the board and doing nothing. I have 3 dealerships now i am in contact with who's service managers know me by first and last name because I raise my voice and don't buy the bullshit and I voice record everything and you should just here the reasoning/explanations they have for problems. It will almost make you laugh if you know just a little bit about automotive engineering.

[Killer]

I agree with you guys. For everyone else, stop saying its not that type of car. A subaru legacy is NOT that type of car, and with less horse off the assembly line, it takes less money to get more power than us. The fact is Mazda aimed for it to be THAT TYPE OF CAR, and they have fallen short. You do not make a vehicle all wheel drive, turbo charged, 1600psi fuel pressure, 6 speed for nothing, then badge it as speed.

Most all car makers design and build cars for the General Public. Whether you want to believe it or not, car buyers that mod brand new cars are the MINORITY of buyers. You mention the AWD, Turbo, fuel pressure...etc. This car far outperforms its 4 and 6 cylinder Mazda 6 cousins...so it deserves the "Speed" badge.


Go by the v6 if you are hesitant in touching the vehicle, or worried about warranties, b/c frankly i can care less about a factory warranty now. I'm tired of finding out everyone has the same problems across the board and doing nothing. I have 3 dealerships now i am in contact with who's service managers know me by first and last name because I raise my voice and don't buy the bullshit and I voice record everything and you should just here the reasoning/explanations they have for problems. It will almost make you laugh if you know just a little bit about automotive engineering.

Again, you are in the minority. Most buy a new car for the peace of mind a new car warranty brings. When they buy a car they know they can enjoy the performance and all the reasons the bought the car for and it will be warrantied until they have had it a few years.
If you think you and maybe 20 other guys on Internet Forums are going to get new engines, free repairs etc., because the engine smokes after putting turbo timers, downpipes, removing federally mandated smog control devices...well you are just dead wrong. Sorry...that's just the way it is.

Good luck...(usa)

[skylinemonster]

Most all car makers design and build cars for the General Public. Whether you want to believe it or not, car buyers that mod brand new cars are the MINORITY of buyers. You mention the AWD, Turbo, fuel pressure...etc. This car far outperforms its 4 and 6 cylinder Mazda 6 cousins...so it deserves the "Speed" badge.



Again, you are in the minority. Most buy a new car for the peace of mind a new car warranty brings. When they buy a car they know they can enjoy the performance and all the reasons the bought the car for and it will be warrantied until they have had it a few years.
If you think you and maybe 20 other guys on Internet Forums are going to get new engines, free repairs etc., because the engine smokes after putting turbo timers, downpipes, removing federally mandated smog control devices...well you are just dead wrong. Sorry...that's just the way it is.

Good luck...(usa)

My problem is with a 30,000 dollar investment having problems and a company with poor service and support. That's all and the reason I am not satisfied is because I have paid much less in the past and have had much more. You live and you learn. The mazdaspeed 6 is a good looking car, it goes, it rides nice and has nice quality interior, but so do many other vehicles. I bought it because my father works at ford. I can't stand american built machines. Ford in the states really does not have anything to offer as it does in Europe. So to stay in the ford family, mazda was the lesser of 2 evils, and the speed 6 was the max you could get without looking silly in a hatch. I just look at things from a larger scale and when you compare mazda to everyone else, from a performance ENTHUSIAST's perspective, it is lagging.

[DaPortugee]

So is there any case of this condition happening to a stock MS6?

or how about an MS6 modded with Mazdaspeed parts?


Yes, mine was basicly stock. magnaflow mufflers and a CAI. nothing that would affect the smoke. Mazda replaced it without question.

[Killer]

My problem is with a 30,000 dollar investment having problems and a company with poor service and support. That's all and the reason I am not satisfied is because I have paid much less in the past and have had much more. You live and you learn. The mazdaspeed 6 is a good looking car, it goes, it rides nice and has nice quality interior, but so do many other vehicles. I bought it because my father works at ford. I can't stand american built machines. Ford in the states really does not have anything to offer as it does in Europe. So to stay in the ford family, mazda was the lesser of 2 evils, and the speed 6 was the max you could get without looking silly in a hatch. I just look at things from a larger scale and when you compare mazda to everyone else, from a performance ENTHUSIAST's perspective, it is lagging.

This I can agree with.(mswerd) But I must ask, what mods have you done on your car?

[wannabe]

too much drama in this thread. if you're not happy with your decision, take it up with Mazda. as stated previously, the only way they will do anything is with your car stock. and with that, i'm out.
*unsubscribes*

[DSMConvert]

daport..did replacing the turbo fix the leaking though? I think the general thing here is to determine if its merely a design flaw that mazda has acknowledged and can fix though an updated part replacement, or if we'll have to go aftermarket turbo to eliminate the oil leak.

[hellcat]

i must agree that i am HIGHLY dissappointed in the way mazda setup these cars. why put on a turbo that is inefficient even in stock form ?? then the slightest power increase from a little bolt on puts it well past its abilities, and causes it to burn up....... great engineering !! and controlling boost by closing the throttle plate ??? who the hell thought of that brilliant idea.
so now at high rpm not only do you only have 5psi but you also only get 50-70% throttle opening. i though my MS3 was going to be great off the bat and just need a few bolt ons to be awesome...not the case. i will have to do EXTENSIVE modding to make this car what it should have been from mazda.
any car that smokes like mine just from an exhaust (mine is catted) has issues, and is made with poor quality.

Did you know about the MSP? A similar problem there I think. Mazda's are notoriously expensive to sponge power from. (newer models anyway)

[DaPortugee]

daport..did replacing the turbo fix the leaking though? I think the general thing here is to determine if its merely a design flaw that mazda has acknowledged and can fix though an updated part replacement, or if we'll have to go aftermarket turbo to eliminate the oil leak.


it stopped the smoke but with the stock cats in place. My point here is everyone isnt talking about the same issue.
There is a problem with defective turbos like mine that smoke too much because they leak TOO much.
It sounds like there is a little smoke which Mazda considers normal that you should only see with out the cats or with one hiflo.

You guys need to determine which one you have because Mazda will replace it if it is defective. If smoke is billowing from your car that is a defective turbo regardless of exhaust changes and should be replaced.

Maybe I just have a good dealer but they never even tried saying that my smoke was normal.

[tru-boost]

well i have my factory exhaust back on now....and no smoke !!
this sucks ...i want to put the turbo back on but it smokes like crazy ?!
i wonder why this happens. is it always burning oil and you only see it with a better exhaust, or does it only burn oil with the better exhaust.
and a better question... is it the turbo blowing oil, or does the engine naturally burn oil ?

[Snafu]

For the guys that are seeing the smoke...how much oil are you guys using over 3k miles?

[ssinstaller]

For the guys that are seeing the smoke...how much oil are you guys using over 3k miles?

I have never noticed any oil loss. I think it's just a very small amount of oil seeping past the seals, it's not flowing or even dripping past the seals..

[Skywlkr]

Hey Guys I am going to the dealer today (in about an hour) and I have a meeting with the New England regional service manager about some other warranty issues that the dealer would not fix so I got in touch above them. I would like to discuss this issue with him while I'm there for everyone. Please let me know what exactly I should speak to him about and what answers you guys are looking for.

sorry for the late post, just saw the thread.

[Killer]

Good luck.

[InlineTwin]

Okay, so most of you who have this problem have installed a CAI and downpipe, which affects the top end power and AFR. The downpipe specifically helps the turbine flow more air mass. Did you consider the fact that you may be over-spinning the turbo and this is the cause of oil consumption? The turbo rides on journal bearings with a dynamic seal on the compressor side, it can only take so much. Increasing the demand at the top end would force the turbo to spin at a much higher rpm (where the extra power comes from when you reduce the pressure in the exhaust).
I do not think this is Mazda's fault; I have 17K miles on my car and the TB is dry. No mods.

Just a thought before anyone starts a scene at their local dealer.

[Kansei]

The MS6/MS3 turbo isn't dual ball bearing? :'(

But yes, I agree that all this free flowing exhaust stuff isn't doing anything to help the situation. This is a case where Mazda can easily say that your mods are to blame.

[Killer]

Okay, so most of you who have this problem have installed a CAI and downpipe, which affects the top end power and AFR. The downpipe specifically helps the turbine flow more air mass. Did you consider the fact that you may be over-spinning the turbo and this is the cause of oil consumption? The turbo rides on journal bearings with a dynamic seal on the compressor side, it can only take so much. Increasing the demand at the top end would force the turbo to spin at a much higher rpm (where the extra power comes from when you reduce the pressure in the exhaust).
I do not think this is Mazda's fault; I have 17K miles on my car and the TB is dry. No mods.

Just a thought before anyone starts a scene at their local dealer.

Bingo.

[ssinstaller]

Okay, so most of you who have this problem have installed a CAI and downpipe, which affects the top end power and AFR. The downpipe specifically helps the turbine flow more air mass. Did you consider the fact that you may be over-spinning the turbo and this is the cause of oil consumption? The turbo rides on journal bearings with a dynamic seal on the compressor side, it can only take so much. Increasing the demand at the top end would force the turbo to spin at a much higher rpm (where the extra power comes from when you reduce the pressure in the exhaust).
I do not think this is Mazda's fault; I have 17K miles on my car and the TB is dry. No mods.

Just a thought before anyone starts a scene at their local dealer.

I've got an intake, 3" inlet pipe, and turboback exaust(no cats), but I also have no oil anywhere in the intake tract or on the throttlebody, and I've never noticed any oil loss--even though I've seen ALOT of smoke on a couple of occasions... While the extra flow may overspin the turbo, I don't think it's causing any problems beacuse I have never seen any smoke at higher rpms or high boost levels. The only time I ever get any smoke is the first minute or two of driving after letting the car idle for awhile.

That being said I don't think the smoke I'm getting is mazda's fault, the system worked the way they designed it. I modified the system, and now I'll just have to live with a few adverse effects to get my extra HP..

[Kansei]

I've got an intake, 3" inlet pipe, and turboback exaust(no cats), but I also have no oil anywhere in the intake tract or on the throttlebody, and I've never noticed any oil loss--even though I've seen ALOT of smoke on a couple of occasions... While the extra flow may overspin the turbo, I don't think it's causing any problems beacuse I have never seen any smoke at higher rpms or high boost levels. The only time I ever get any smoke is the first minute or two of driving after letting the car idle for awhile.

That being said I don't think the smoke I'm getting is mazda's fault, the system worked the way they designed it. I modified the system, and now I'll just have to live with a few adverse effects to get my extra HP..

Glad to see someone else who doesn't get some ultimate sense of entitlement via the factory warranty. You mod, you gotta be ready to pay the price. Yes, it sucks that people are getting oil consumption and have oil pooling up near the throttle body but unless your intake/exhaust and boost level is all totally stock, you can't complain.

I hope you guys find some way to reduce the oil consumption though, it's kinda sucky that it does it with minimal mods. Is the oil pressure really high or something?

[skylinemonster]

Glad to see someone else who doesn't get some ultimate sense of entitlement via the factory warranty. You mod, you gotta be ready to pay the price. Yes, it sucks that people are getting oil consumption and have oil pooling up near the throttle body but unless your intake/exhaust and boost level is all totally stock, you can't complain.

I hope you guys find some way to reduce the oil consumption though, it's kinda sucky that it does it with minimal mods. Is the oil pressure really high or something?

Mazda designed a system to work for normal use. I understand that. But, they also have to realize that this is their flagship vehicle right now, people are gonna get a taste and want more because it's inviting, probably more so than the late great rx-7 in today's world b/c the rotary has had more issues than one can count and for that never took off and the speed6 is much more useful/economical, and with DISI, its the next best thing. But, the facts still remain:

The engine burns oil which comes from a turbine seal on the compressor side, whether we can see smoke or not. Yes we bolt on some parts, try to relieve stress off the engine for more power, allow it to spin more freely, and expose all the imperfections like smoked oil. But, here's the question you have to ask yourself, how many other factory turbo cars do this after an intake, a downpipe and an exhaust? Not too many and that's what makes me shake my head. I've ran down the list over and over and know alot of people without this burden, (with different vehicles of course).

CP-E also has a very interesting perspective or should I say factual information they gathered of why Mazda chose to do this. It is intentional, and that's what I don't like. I love my car everyday, because it pulls like a banshee with just with 3 different bolt ons. There are no ill effects in performance whatsoever from this situation, no CEL's and I dont expect there to be. What i don't like is when my car is just taking a breather, idling so to speak, the seal cannot handle a vacuum state and then plooms cumulous clouds into the sky.

What i've decided is that the top mount is coming off when cp-e finishes their front core and perhaps the smoking will go away all together because the oil just won't be able to travel upwards to the throttle, but will probably just collect somewhere else, and i'm ok with that, as long as I dont see it. Right now with the factory core design is like a ski slope right to the throttle plate, not to mention a heat soker. Getting Mazda to replace a seal that was designed to be the way it is, probably will not happen, plus I do not trust a dealership tech to disassemble any component on this engine. I love my speed6 i just don't love what mazda ended up doing when they developed their seals.

[Killer]

I think this falls into "If you MOD your car under warranty...be prepared to pay the price".

[Hate]

Mazda designed a system to work for normal use. I understand that. But, they also have to realize that this is their flagship vehicle right now, people are gonna get a taste and want more because it's inviting, probably more so than the late great rx-7 in today's world b/c the rotary has had more issues than one can count and for that never took off and the speed6 is much more useful/economical, and with DISI, its the next best thing. But, the facts still remain:

The engine burns oil which comes from a turbine seal on the compressor side, whether we can see smoke or not. Yes we bolt on some parts, try to relieve stress off the engine for more power, allow it to spin more freely, and expose all the imperfections like smoked oil. But, here's the question you have to ask yourself, how many other factory turbo cars do this after an intake, a downpipe and an exhaust? Not too many and that's what makes me shake my head. I've ran down the list over and over and know alot of people without this burden, (with different vehicles of course).

CP-E also has a very interesting perspective or should I say factual information they gathered of why Mazda chose to do this. It is intentional, and that's what I don't like. I love my car everyday, because it pulls like a banshee with just with 3 different bolt ons. There are no ill effects in performance whatsoever from this situation, no CEL's and I dont expect there to be. What i don't like is when my car is just taking a breather, idling so to speak, the seal cannot handle a vacuum state and then plooms cumulous clouds into the sky.

What i've decided is that the top mount is coming off when cp-e finishes their front core and perhaps the smoking will go away all together because the oil just won't be able to travel upwards to the throttle, but will probably just collect somewhere else, and i'm ok with that, as long as I dont see it. Right now with the factory core design is like a ski slope right to the throttle plate, not to mention a heat soker. Getting Mazda to replace a seal that was designed to be the way it is, probably will not happen, plus I do not trust a dealership tech to disassemble any component on this engine. I love my speed6 i just don't love what mazda ended up doing when they developed their seals.

Flagship vehicle would include the whole 6 family, not just the Speed6.

When designing a vehicle, the measure is how it does against another vehicle stock, not with mods. I'm sure there is something you could do freely on the Speed6, that you cannot do on another factory turbo vehicle without causing an issue. Even so, you can't solely place the blame on the manufacture, as they didn't make the aftermarket parts for the car. Keyword being aftermarket. Is it a dirty question for me to ask if this exact issue was known by the makers of said aftermarket parts before it was on the market?

People who mod their vehicles are a small, small minority of the buyers. Mazda does in fact realize people will mod their vehicles. This is evident because of the fact that they can and will void the warranty on the parts you modify.

[Killer]

Mazda Flagship = CX-9

[Hate]

Mazda Flagship = CX-9

For 2007 maybe...

[Afroman]

Just to get back on topic:

Skyline, have you gone to the dealership yet?

So far, two people have gone to the dealer. One got a turbo replacement and the other hasnt written back yet.

More action, less argueing will solve the problem. If you think you have a case even with your mods, go to the dealer get it fixed and post your accomplishment.

[Speed6 Guy]

Flagship car lol not the Mazdaspeed6 Sorry.

[Skywlkr]

Just to get back on topic:

Skyline, have you gone to the dealership yet?

So far, two people have gone to the dealer. One got a turbo replacement and the other hasnt written back yet.

More action, less argueing will solve the problem. If you think you have a case even with your mods, go to the dealer get it fixed and post your accomplishment.

Currently mazda does not see this as a problem. As it was previously mentioned the turbo will burn some oil and oil lose it expected. The pictures that show the oil is normal from what the New England service manager told me. He said the blue smoke however is not. If your car smokes for a while after start up or while ideling they will look into it, but he has not encountered any issue with a leak in the turbo as of yet.

So at the moment this has not become a large enough issue for them to even know about it. As he said he has not seen any issues through any of his dealerships as of yet.

[firespeed6]

I just got my car back from the dealership for my lack of power, they replaced my tb. I had them watch the SMOKE COMING OUT the tailpipe. They did some looking and said they are ordering a new turbo. They did not say a word about my mazdaspeed cai or my magnaflow cat back.

[Kansei]

I just got my car back from the dealership for my lack of power, they replaced my tb. I had them watch the SMOKE COMING OUT the tailpipe. They did some looking and said they are ordering a new turbo. They did not say a word about my mazdaspeed cai or my magnaflow cat back.

Some dealerships are so loose with warranty repairs that I'm surprised they can profit at all :P not gonna complain though because it benefits the consumers until they go under :D

[InlineTwin]

I don't want to come across as the disagreeing sort, but I will throw this out there anyway. I don't think the dealership pays for the warranty work; they bill Mazda Corporate (Ford?) directly. If it were otherwise I think all dealerships would go out of business quickly!

So in that regard I am not surprised that they are willing to replace the turbo; they get a little extra work. Everyone has a budget, and if you can pay your tech (who would otherwise be standing around) with someone elses money, why not?

[firespeed6]

They told me it is the first they have had to change out so wish me luck! I am sure if there are a bunch of these turbo's getting replaced it should throw up a red flag! How many does it take before they take a good look at the design?

[Hate]

I don't want to come across as the disagreeing sort, but I will throw this out there anyway. I don't think the dealership pays for the warranty work; they bill Mazda Corporate (Ford?) directly. If it were otherwise I think all dealerships would go out of business quickly!

So in that regard I am not surprised that they are willing to replace the turbo; they get a little extra work. Everyone has a budget, and if you can pay your tech (who would otherwise be standing around) with someone elses money, why not?

You are right, they don't pay for it, Mazda does, but I don't think they make much, (if any) performing warranty work either. That's why they want you coming back for service. Pretty much pure profit.

[Brian MP5T]

Meh..

[Hate]

So what is it safe for me to put on my car without seeing smoke? Downpipe only, cat back only, neither? Does everyone seeing smoke definately have these two parts? I think the whole situation does suck for the record, but understand that it's a risk you take when you step into the world of aftermarket parts, so I don't blame Mazda.

There are just some things I cannot see myself leaving stock though. The reason I ask this now is because had it not been for this thread, I would probably be in this same situation in a month or so.

[Skywlkr]

I don't want to come across as the disagreeing sort, but I will throw this out there anyway. I don't think the dealership pays for the warranty work; they bill Mazda Corporate (Ford?) directly. If it were otherwise I think all dealerships would go out of business quickly!

So in that regard I am not surprised that they are willing to replace the turbo; they get a little extra work. Everyone has a budget, and if you can pay your tech (who would otherwise be standing around) with someone elses money, why not?

The dealerships must pay for the work and submit it to Mazda Corp with the partst that were replace. It is Mazda Corps. decision if they pay the dealer back for the work. That is why some dealers are hesitant to do some warranty work. If Mazda Corp. feels the work should not have been completed under warranty the dealer is out the money to fix the problem.

[Kansei]

^^ they are also hesitant because they don't get paid much to do warranty labor. They'd make about twice as much if they were doing out-of-warranty work.

[firespeed6]

So, they called me and told me my turbo was in. I left my car at the shop on the 26th they called friday and told me they broke a part on the downpipe and it is on national backorder so they have to keep my car for 2 weeks! I got the minivan loaner for a while, oh boy. The tech told me that the car was smoking from a bad seal in the turbo, Ok that's what I told them from reading this thread. He also said the only fix was a new turbo.

[semelater]

I have a 06 MS6 with about 10 000KM on it and Stock, mine is smoking like a steamboat within 2 to 3 minutes of idling.

The first time a brought it to the dealership for this problem I asked to send the technician out to see it from is own eyes the smoking problem. I told him about the turbo seals problem that I read about on this forum and the video of the smoking MS6 on youtube and he didn’t know anything about the seal problem. The next day when I went to pick up my car they told me that their was no smoking when they did the road test so now I have to go to the dealership every 2 weeks for a total of 4 times to verify the oil consumption level. Last week I went for the first checkup and as you would expect no changes. Now When I am in traffic or long light I get smoke coming out of the pipes and the bad smell coming inside the car. Next week I will go for the second checkup but I will be prepared. I took about 15 minutes of film showing the car smoking and I’ll even let the car run and smoke so that everyone employee and customers can see this.

[camrycev6]

So just to be clear....we are talking about smoking while idling...

[semelater]

Yes at idle. I have not notice any smoking when driving under normal condition expet slightly on hard acceleration but I think this is normal

[camrycev6]

Good, because that is exactly what I have seen. Just under acceleration.

[gsrtype1]

my car doesn't use oil at all and drive hard all the time, if you see smoke coming out during hard accecleration its just wasted fuel that wasn't burned escaping , pefectly normal. for you guys that are burining oil sorry to here that! i use royal purple maybe that helps

[semelater]

Paid an last minute visit to the dealer this afternoon to show them the video and they didnt even wanted to look at them. I have to see trought the oil consumption program so I am going to spend alot of time on the road, I have to two time 1000KM and have them check it. Here's a good one that is going to piss you all off. The manager of the service department actually told me himsel "If it's not an oil issue there is nothing I can do... Mazda made it this way and your car is fine" Can you belive this. So I am going to do my 2000KM and trust me I will have them do something, a car smoking at idle has defenitely something wrong

[chriscecc914]

i have a smoking issue also. I will be replacing this p**sy *** turbo

[camrycev6]

Modded or stock?

[Hate]

My exhaust is all stock. No smoke idle. If Mazda made the car like that, then they would all do it. Something else is wrong.

[camrycev6]

I agree...there would be a lot more of them doing it.

[Prison]

Okay, so I have the same f@%$ing problem. My Car does the same crap on idle. I have ATP downpipe, AEM intake, and also up'd my boost in the past. Idk if its mazda or whoever, and i dont really care either. All i know is that this week im gonna put my car back to stock and im gonna go to the dealership. Im gonna tell them "Dont take my car on any road tests, i didnt buy it for you to drive, i bought it for myself and I will be watching my miles/gas/trip A and trip B!" They should not drive our cars as road tests, f#$k them, they got those computers let them do the work, ahahah. Ill let you guys all know what goes on, if they dont take my car, then hey... We know not to be dicks, but yeah i got that powerful mouth that will talk shit, as does everyone in my family. Ill let you all know what happens. Mine puffs up everyday now, so thats a probelm

[wannabe]

Okay, so I have the same f@%$ing problem. My Car does the same crap on idle. I have ATP downpipe, AEM intake, and also up'd my boost in the past. Idk if its mazda or whoever, and i dont really care either. All i know is that this week im gonna put my car back to stock and im gonna go to the dealership. Im gonna tell them "Dont take my car on any road tests, i didnt buy it for you to drive, i bought it for myself and I will be watching my miles/gas/trip A and trip B!" They should not drive our cars as road tests, f#$k them, they got those computers let them do the work, ahahah. Ill let you guys all know what goes on, if they dont take my car, then hey... We know not to be dicks, but yeah i got that powerful mouth that will talk shit, as does everyone in my family. Ill let you all know what happens. Mine puffs up everyday now, so thats a probelm

if i was your service advisor i would remove a bolt here or there.....

[Prison]

if i was your service advisor i would remove a bolt here or there.....


Hahaha, that would suck, but then my car would be screwd so i'd just sue and get the problem fixed for free, And you wouldnt have a job no more

[Donas64]

if i was your service advisor i would remove a bolt here or there.....

And when I found out you did it, I'd have you fired! :)

[3+5]

Yeah, I can see this as a big quality problem, or maybe not... My MS6 is stock and doesn't blow smoke so far at 5k miles. If it started to smoke tomorrow, I'd be all kinds of pissed and take it in and insist on repair. We've seen two guys in this thread get new turbos, and quite a few bitchin about it without follow up threads saying whether their problem was fixed or even if they'd been to the dealer at all yet. We've also seen some who say that the dealer's telling them it's normal, and one who seems to be made to jump through hoops verifying oil consumption, maybe in a buildup to be told "Sorry, there's nothing we can do, eh?" So we see the scattering of good and not so good treatment from dealers, which is pretty normal. The far extremes of dealerships actually have to be discarded in terms of figuring out if there's a problem Mazda can and should fix. Finally, (to me) the key to understanding the entire problem is the MS3 owner who reinstalled his stock pipes and the smoking actually went away.

On the one hand, if I were Mazda I'd tell you it should be expected, and recommend turbo upgrade in conjunction with exhaust mods. On the other hand, perhaps if I were Mazda I'd have done a right big exhaust in the first place and spec'd out a turbo with seals that matched. But, that wouldn't allow me to manufacture a car like the MS6/MS3 at the price, then would it? ...and guys would toss on an even bigger set of pipes and I might be facing the same problem anyhow. Of course, if I had three hands, there's the part where it sucks that you can't do basic warranty-safe mods and get more power without looking like a mosquito sprayer, and that hurts Mazdaspeed's rep from a tuning perspective. I would see this as most important, but it would be a tough sell to increase the performance of a part in case someone decided to modify another part of the system.

Bottom line is this: You mod your car, you go outside engineering specs. Exhaust mods on a MS6/MS3 will reduce the turbo seal pressure too far out of spec, and cause oil bypass and smoke. This may be surprising to some, but others, having done research have offered that it shouldn't be. IMO, unless you have a stock exhaust and your turbo leaks, Mazda shouldn't be responsible. If you installed a bigger turbo and blew up your motor because you didn't control the extra boost you wouldn't expect Mazda to cough up a new one. Technically, this is the same thing, and for that reason I have to disagree with the intent of the thread. I don't believe Mazda's seal design is responsible, at least not at this point in time.

Argue that an Evo or Subie wouldn't have this problem, and I say these aren't either one, they're Mazdas. Mod within limits or mod the limiting factors to compensate.

Not knocking the desire to mod, I have a modded 74 Vette. But with every mod I've done, I've taken into consideration the consequences of each, and built or beefed accordingly. I also base my decisions on lessons learned by Vette owners over the years. We're now learning those consequences, and how to base mod decisions in the MS6/MS3.

[wannabe]

Yeah, I can see this as a big quality problem, or maybe not... My MS6 is stock and doesn't blow smoke so far at 5k miles. If it started to smoke tomorrow, I'd be all kinds of pissed and take it in and insist on repair. We've seen two guys in this thread get new turbos, and quite a few bitchin about it without follow up threads saying whether their problem was fixed or even if they'd been to the dealer at all yet. We've also seen some who say that the dealer's telling them it's normal, and one who seems to be made to jump through hoops verifying oil consumption, maybe in a buildup to be told "Sorry, there's nothing we can do, eh?" So we see the scattering of good and not so good treatment from dealers, which is pretty normal. The far extremes of dealerships actually have to be discarded in terms of figuring out if there's a problem Mazda can and should fix. Finally, (to me) the key to understanding the entire problem is the MS3 owner who reinstalled his stock pipes and the smoking actually went away.

On the one hand, if I were Mazda I'd tell you it should be expected, and recommend turbo upgrade in conjunction with exhaust mods. On the other hand, perhaps if I were Mazda I'd have done a right big exhaust in the first place and spec'd out a turbo with seals that matched. But, that wouldn't allow me to manufacture a car like the MS6/MS3 at the price, then would it? ...and guys would toss on an even bigger set of pipes and I might be facing the same problem anyhow. Of course, if I had three hands, there's the part where it sucks that you can't do basic warranty-safe mods and get more power without looking like a mosquito sprayer, and that hurts Mazdaspeed's rep from a tuning perspective. I would see this as most important, but it would be a tough sell to increase the performance of a part in case someone decided to modify another part of the system.

Bottom line is this: You mod your car, you go outside engineering specs. Exhaust mods on a MS6/MS3 will reduce the turbo seal pressure too far out of spec, and cause oil bypass and smoke. This may be surprising to some, but others, having done research have offered that it shouldn't be. IMO, unless you have a stock exhaust and your turbo leaks, Mazda shouldn't be responsible. If you installed a bigger turbo and blew up your motor because you didn't control the extra boost you wouldn't expect Mazda to cough up a new one. Technically, this is the same thing, and for that reason I have to disagree with the intent of the thread. I don't believe Mazda's seal design is responsible, at least not at this point in time.

Argue that an Evo or Subie wouldn't have this problem, and I say these aren't either one, they're Mazdas. Mod within limits or mod the limiting factors to compensate.

Not knocking the desire to mod, I have a modded 74 Vette. But with every mod I've done, I've taken into consideration the consequences of each, and built or beefed accordingly. I also base my decisions on lessons learned by Vette owners over the years. We're now learning those consequences, and how to base mod decisions in the MS6/MS3.

first off, excellent post.

second, that last bit is the part the people on this forum don't seem to understand. if you mod your car, its no longer the responsibility of the manufacturer to fix it. take responsibility for your actions. i'm all for modding. i modded my old protege, and it ended up with a couple problems, due to my modding. i lived with it because that was my choice to mod it.

good point with the Evo/STi. they actually sell a stripped down version for the sole purpose of modding....with lots of parts desgned by the manufacturer to work WITH the car. does Mazda have a MazdaSpeed Exhaust? if so, then i think we would have a legitimate complaint.

my last point to make before we both get flamed. if putting a bigger exhaust on the car caused a potential problem to be identified, then great. i'm all for that. but i dont think this is a problem until that bigger exhaust is added....

[gerasimatos]

Well, I have seen a few dealers selling some Mazdaspeed mufflers as additions to the speed6 but I don't see anything legitimately listed as a CARB certified aftermarket exhaust system for the speed6 specifically.

Regardless, I don't see how lowering the back pressure on a turbo can be considered negative. This is specifically what a high flow exhaust system should be doing on a turbo charged vehicle and this should in fact extend the life of the turbo.

Back pressure on the engine can reduce its power. Any way of improving the overall flow of air through the engine increases the engine's efficiency. Improving the turbine wheel and housing design, reducing bearing friction or improving the overall efficiency of the turbocharger will reduce engine exhaust back pressure.


Also, it should be noted that most most other manufacturers do not complain about exhaust systems having negative effects on turbocharged cars. For example, my Audi A4 2.0T has a GIAC chip and ATP exhaust (runs great and sounds even better) and other WORKERS at the dealer are using these products as well and endorse them.

Perhaps this is what separates a solid manufacturer apart from Mazda and why Mazda is trying too hard to get into the "sport" compact car world.

[gerasimatos]

One last note with regards to the turbo, back pressure, and draw. These properties have a direct effect on turbo longevity. Excessive limits of both causes wear on turbo thrust bearings. Thrust bearing failure is a common failure area for performance turbos.

[Hate]

Yeah, I can see this as a big quality problem, or maybe not... My MS6 is stock and doesn't blow smoke so far at 5k miles. If it started to smoke tomorrow, I'd be all kinds of pissed and take it in and insist on repair. We've seen two guys in this thread get new turbos, and quite a few bitchin about it without follow up threads saying whether their problem was fixed or even if they'd been to the dealer at all yet. We've also seen some who say that the dealer's telling them it's normal, and one who seems to be made to jump through hoops verifying oil consumption, maybe in a buildup to be told "Sorry, there's nothing we can do, eh?" So we see the scattering of good and not so good treatment from dealers, which is pretty normal. The far extremes of dealerships actually have to be discarded in terms of figuring out if there's a problem Mazda can and should fix. Finally, (to me) the key to understanding the entire problem is the MS3 owner who reinstalled his stock pipes and the smoking actually went away.

On the one hand, if I were Mazda I'd tell you it should be expected, and recommend turbo upgrade in conjunction with exhaust mods. On the other hand, perhaps if I were Mazda I'd have done a right big exhaust in the first place and spec'd out a turbo with seals that matched. But, that wouldn't allow me to manufacture a car like the MS6/MS3 at the price, then would it? ...and guys would toss on an even bigger set of pipes and I might be facing the same problem anyhow. Of course, if I had three hands, there's the part where it sucks that you can't do basic warranty-safe mods and get more power without looking like a mosquito sprayer, and that hurts Mazdaspeed's rep from a tuning perspective. I would see this as most important, but it would be a tough sell to increase the performance of a part in case someone decided to modify another part of the system.

Bottom line is this: You mod your car, you go outside engineering specs. Exhaust mods on a MS6/MS3 will reduce the turbo seal pressure too far out of spec, and cause oil bypass and smoke. This may be surprising to some, but others, having done research have offered that it shouldn't be. IMO, unless you have a stock exhaust and your turbo leaks, Mazda shouldn't be responsible. If you installed a bigger turbo and blew up your motor because you didn't control the extra boost you wouldn't expect Mazda to cough up a new one. Technically, this is the same thing, and for that reason I have to disagree with the intent of the thread. I don't believe Mazda's seal design is responsible, at least not at this point in time.

Argue that an Evo or Subie wouldn't have this problem, and I say these aren't either one, they're Mazdas. Mod within limits or mod the limiting factors to compensate.

Not knocking the desire to mod, I have a modded 74 Vette. But with every mod I've done, I've taken into consideration the consequences of each, and built or beefed accordingly. I also base my decisions on lessons learned by Vette owners over the years. We're now learning those consequences, and how to base mod decisions in the MS6/MS3.

(yippy) I tried saying the same thing basically, but you said it 1000 times better. I now know if I want to mod my car, I'm doing everything at once, and not piece by piece. But a new house and paying off student loans comes first.

[3+5]

Never said it wasn't good for the turbo from a wear aspect to reduce back pressure. In fact I'm a firm believer in better engine breathing. I only said that the seals depend on that back pressure to do their job. Reduce it, and you've exceeded the limits of the turbo design, in that respect. Good or bad design on Mazda's part is a subjective call. It seems to work fine with the factory exhaust, as it was designed to do. So very simply, Mazda really can't be faulted if the cars are modded causing turbo seal leaks. The turbos that some people are recieving (only those with aftermarket exhausts) have been gifts, IMO.

[gigs2006]

hey guys i have a 3 inch exhaust and i cut it in just after that first cat on the downpipe and i think thats where the problem lies the catless downpipe doesnt create enough backpressre to make the seal's work correctly and leaving that first cat on ensures that u have no smoking issues and enough backpressure...then i just ran the pipes put a high flow cat in (PYPES performance mini cat) and made new o2 sensor bungs and all the way back are two nice HKS Carbon Ti's..i had to cut a bit of plastic off to make them fit but it works great and i havent had a problem with smoking to this date and ive got 7000 miles on my MS6. maybe its certain vin#'s or a certain group of cars that have the bad turbo seal's... my last 6 digits are 102717.. if all u guys that have the smoking problem could post ur last 6 digits and maybe if there closely numbered that could be the issue as well who knows.

i havent noticed any oil in the throttle area or anything to this date either.

[semelater]

Hy!

I have now completed the oil consumption program and as I thought the oil consumption is normal so the dealer said there is nothing they can do. So I called mazda canada this morning and open a case. They will contact the dealer to see what they have done and call me back within 2 days

here is the result 114347

Can we link to youtube? i could upload the movies i have and show you the smoking

[dadasracecar]

The following are my thoughts on how the smoking issue and aftermarket exhaust components are related. Flame away...

The 2.3 L DISI turbocharged MZR engine is boosted by a Hitachi K04 turbo that is suspected of having faulty turbo seals. There are numerous reports of replaced turbos for this problem and an excellent write up including pictorial evidence in the Forced Induction section of the mazdas247.com forum. It would interesting if those that have replaced their turbos with stock or aftermarket units had experienced smoking that had stopped upon replacement of the turbo.
This missive addresses the belief by some that the aftermarket exhaust modifications (DP, RP, CBE) somehow cause the engine to smoke. The smoke in question is a bluish smoke indicative of burning oil. Contrary to most people’s understanding, smoke of any kind is particulate (solid phase material) and not gaseous.
Changing the stock exhaust does not change the nature of the materials leaving the exhaust side of the turbo. Immediately after the exhaust exits the turbo however, there are dramatic changes with a different exhaust system. An aftermarket performance exhaust typically will have larger diameter tubing, high flow or no catalytic converter, and a high flow muffler and resonator system. All of these elements work to allow the exhaust to flow as freely as possible out of the motor. They do not however, change the material before it leaves the motor.
The 2.3 L DISI turbocharged MZR engine that comes in the Mazdaspeed6, Mazdaspeed3 and the CX-7 is outfitted with a restrictive DP containing two catalytic converters and connected to a restrictive exhaust system. A three-way catalytic converter has three simultaneous tasks:
1. Reduction of nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen: 2NOx → xO2 + N2
2. Oxidation of (non greenhouse gas, but toxic) carbon monoxide to less harmful (greenhouse gas) carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 → 2CO2
3. Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons to carbon dioxide and water: 2CxHy + (2x+y/2)O2 → 2xCO2 + yH2O
All of these exhaust elements result in increase exhaust gas temperatures relative to a typical aftermarket exhaust components. Replacement of any or all of the stock exhaust components will result in:
1. Faster exhaust gas flow
2. Faster expansion of exhaust gases
3. Cooler exhaust temperatures
a. more efficient exhaust gas expansion
b. shorter residence time of hot exhaust gases in the system
If our engines were burning oil from leaking turbo seals, it is likely that this hydrocarbon particulate could be oxidized to gaseous material all or in part during travel through the stock exhaust system for the following reasons:
1. reduction of the NOx gases will produce oxygen which will react with hydrocarbon particulate
2. Both CO and CO2 oxidizing materials that can oxidize particulate hydrocarbon
3. Oxidation of particulate hydrocarbon increases in efficiency with temperature, i.e. r = kt, where r is rate, k is Boltzmann’s constant and t is temperature
4. Increased residence time in the exhaust components will promote oxidation of particulate hydrocarbon materials.
Replacement of the stock exhaust components will result in less residence time, cooler temperatures, and reduced or eliminated catalytic converter function resulting in less oxidizing media. The cooler temperatures afforded with improved flow (aftermarket exhaust) will allow for condensation of hot exhaust products to solid particles or liquid droplets, in other words, smoke.
In short, an aftermarket exhaust will make your car smoke only if the engine is producing the materials (burnt oil) for smoke to form. In our case the oil is most likely coming from turbo seal problems. In any case, the exhaust does not cause issue resulting in the smoke, it just causes you to see it.

[Dragon Queen]

Nice Mr.Dada A very educated point of view there....

[dadasracecar]

I was talking to Jordan at CPE today and he said he was researching the old WRX/STI posts regarding a similar smoking issue to the Speed6. Their solution was to use a heavier weight oil. They were using 5w30 like us but switched to 10w40 and that cleared things up for some of them. Might be worth a try if you're changing your oil soon and have the smoking issue. If it works, MAD PROPS to Jordan and CPE for the solution...

[steefnap]

as I'm sure many other people have reported, as soon as my turbo was replaced, the smoking issue stopped.

[mdogg]

I was talking to Jordan at CPE today and he said he was researching the old WRX/STI posts regarding a similar smoking issue to the Speed6. Their solution was to use a heavier weight oil. They were using 5w30 like us but switched to 10w40 and that cleared things up for some of them. Might be worth a try if you're changing your oil soon and have the smoking issue. If it works, MAD PROPS to Jordan and CPE for the solution...
It doesn't work....

[semelater]

So after having to open a case with mazda canada after my dealer told there was nothing they could do for my problem Mazda Canada called the dealer and forced them to check other things and guess what they asked them to check... The turbo!!!

So mazda is aware that there is a problem but dont want to admit it openly.
So I will be getting a new turbo and cat.

[Pitt Speed 6]

FWIT, I just double-checked my stock setup; no leaks, minimal oil at turbo -into - intercooler, none in throttle plate. No smoke. Geez, gonna cancel my bid on that A/M cat back setup. BTW, remind me not to add ANY A/M part unless Mazda approves/sanctions it. Kinda funny how the ONLY people having probs are with car ALTERED FROM HOW MAZDA SOLD IT TO YOU. Yet, lotta bitchin about how it's Mazda's fault. Heres a thought - IF YOU CAN DESIGN A BETTER CAR THAN MAZDA, APPLY FOR A JOB THERE - IF NOT LEAVE IT STOCK. If you alter it, assume responsibility. Do you realize that those of us who are happy with the Speed 6, STOCK, are getting a bad rap on our cars from others, because of people that have no technical skill/aptitude and take it upon themselves to change their cars? Do you realize your car was good until you F*&@'ed with it? Do you realize Mazda, the company you had so much faith in when you bought that car, now has to overcome the obstacle of YOU? Quit whining. Add-ons, that are not OEM, alter your car, better or worse. Deal with it.

[Hate]

FWIT, I just double-checked my stock setup; no leaks, minimal oil at turbo -into - intercooler, none in throttle plate. No smoke. Geez, gonna cancel my bid on that A/M cat back setup. BTW, remind me not to add ANY A/M part unless Mazda approves/sanctions it. Kinda funny how the ONLY people having probs are with car ALTERED FROM HOW MAZDA SOLD IT TO YOU. Yet, lotta bitchin about how it's Mazda's fault. Heres a thought - IF YOU CAN DESIGN A BETTER CAR THAN MAZDA, APPLY FOR A JOB THERE - IF NOT LEAVE IT STOCK. If you alter it, assume responsibility. Do you realize that those of us who are happy with the Speed 6, STOCK, are getting a bad rap on our cars from others, because of people that have no technical skill/aptitude and take it upon themselves to change their cars? Do you realize your car was good until you F*&@'ed with it? Do you realize Mazda, the company you had so much faith in when you bought that car, now has to overcome the obstacle of YOU? Quit whining. Add-ons, that are not OEM, alter your car, better or worse. Deal with it.

Hi. Welcome to the first few days this thread was posted.

[Pitt Speed 6]

Sorry I only responded a year after first post...as the thread has continued, I feel my recent post is still relevant....I was not asleep during the past year,it's just that I finally had time to start researching my car AFTER I bought it.

[Pitt Speed 6]

Hi. Welcome to the first few days this thread was posted.

I see that mostly my thoughts on A/M 'upgrades' (i.e. problems) have already been addressed, but I wanted to offer my own perspectives.
Sorry, HATE, that I am not biting my nails for someone to reply....

[dkswim]

ill have to read this in more detail

[Killer]

FWIT, I just double-checked my stock setup; no leaks, minimal oil at turbo -into - intercooler, none in throttle plate. No smoke. Geez, gonna cancel my bid on that A/M cat back setup. BTW, remind me not to add ANY A/M part unless Mazda approves/sanctions it. Kinda funny how the ONLY people having probs are with car ALTERED FROM HOW MAZDA SOLD IT TO YOU. Yet, lotta bitchin about how it's Mazda's fault. Heres a thought - IF YOU CAN DESIGN A BETTER CAR THAN MAZDA, APPLY FOR A JOB THERE - IF NOT LEAVE IT STOCK. If you alter it, assume responsibility. Do you realize that those of us who are happy with the Speed 6, STOCK, are getting a bad rap on our cars from others, because of people that have no technical skill/aptitude and take it upon themselves to change their cars? Do you realize your car was good until you F*&@'ed with it? Do you realize Mazda, the company you had so much faith in when you bought that car, now has to overcome the obstacle of YOU? Quit whining. Add-ons, that are not OEM, alter your car, better or worse. Deal with it.

I tend to agree with you. Mine is stock and is perfect.

[InlineTwin]

I tend to agree with you. Mine is stock and is perfect.


Well. I don't agree. My car has 32,000 miles and it creaks, rattles, and has had major repair. Specifically the transfer case leak, after which the tech that repaired it told me to "watch it", because he has not done many of those repairs. The paint was peeling off the side mirror, which they replaced the entire mirror assembly. The clutch is F***d and the TSB did not come out until after I had 12K on the Od. I cannot get 93 octane, so the performance is hindered by the programming.

After only 1 year it has degraded beyond even my Mistu Eclipse GSX after 120K. I am not impressed by the quality. This year of owing the car has passed with more trouble and tribulations than the two years I own my ’04 6. I think they pushed the engineering to meet a marketing deadline and did not achieve a solid product. As an aerospace engineer I have seen this before…

Something else the tech told me was that this engine is a Duratech derivative and the cams are not keyed. The nut on the end is the only thing keeping the cam from slipping. So this will be an issue at XXX horsepower. He also mentioned that the oil filter cap will crack at some point. Most will crack at the base radiating outward parallel with the flange relief.

[dadasracecar]

Here's a list of VINs from M6club that have smoking. Not all are modded but most are. There are a total of 42 and several have had their turbos replaced. If you're VIN isn't listed, please add it to the bottom.
100191
100629
100675
100951
101942
101988
102137
102150
102175
102229
102824
102842
102865
102982
103055
103219
103295
103356
103371
103388
103435
103631
103676
103687
104065
104208
104301
104996
105007
105124
106024
106548
106655
106809
107036
107201
107539
107613
107699
108971
102xxx
107***

[Matt'sSpeed6]

Well. I don't agree. My car has 32,000 miles and it creaks, rattles, and has had major repair. Specifically the transfer case leak, after which the tech that repaired it told me to "watch it", because he has not done many of those repairs. The paint was peeling off the side mirror, which they replaced the entire mirror assembly. The clutch is F***d and the TSB did not come out until after I had 12K on the Od. I cannot get 93 octane, so the performance is hindered by the programming.

After only 1 year it has degraded beyond even my Mistu Eclipse GSX after 120K. I am not impressed by the quality. This year of owing the car has passed with more trouble and tribulations than the two years I own my ’04 6. I think they pushed the engineering to meet a marketing deadline and did not achieve a solid product. As an aerospace engineer I have seen this before…




I have to agree here. It is unfortunate, but I am glad to hear that others have had problems. I suppose I am one of the unlucky ones who got a questionable product. I only wish Mazda and the dealer would stand behind the product better.

The quality of this product (and this is NOT the only Mazda I have) has me thanking the Maker that I only leased this vehicle. August, 2008 (much like January, 2009) cannot come soon enough.

M

[Killer]

well I have a 2006 sport with no issues what so ever. Are you saying that I am lucky? Or do you think you have a lemon?

Also...considering 5000 of these were built in 2006..I would hardly say that 42 that are smokers is really a huge number. I think alot has to do with the way you drive and service your car. Otherwise why has mine been flawless other than the re-flash?

You beat on anything hard enough and it will degrade faster...not saying you did this...:)

[wannabe]

well I have a 2006 sport with no issues what so ever. Are you saying that I am lucky? Or do you think you have a lemon?

Also...considering 5000 of these were built in 2006..I would hardly say that 42 that are smokers is really a huge number. I think alot has to do with the way you drive and service your car. Otherwise why has mine been flawless other than the re-flash?

You beat on anything hard enough and it will degrade faster...not saying you did this...:)

yeah, i agree. my car has had its share of minor problems, but nothing major. looking on an enthusiasts board for a normally driven car is like going to a Weight Watchers meeting looking for an anorexic. it just isn't going to happen.

[Hate]

yeah, i agree. my car has had its share of minor problems, but nothing major. looking on an enthusiasts board for a normally driven car is like going to a Weight Watchers meeting looking for an anorexic. it just isn't going to happen.

I drive my car normally! (wiggle)

[InlineTwin]

I had a V6 '04 Mazda 6 for two years with no problems, that is why I picked this one up, I thought it would be the same. I can't say my driving has worsened, or improved over the past year.

I have never been to the track, I drive 70 miles/day on the highway. My daily driving is better for the car than most in this regard.

[Prison]

Okay so its been awhile but I finally took my car in for them to fix the issue of white smoke. Note I have mods, AEM intake, Cat-Back, and ATP Downpipe. They didnt do anything. All they said is that my turbo seals are bad, my oil return line is bad, and some other seal is bad. They want to charge me 800 to swap them out with new ones and they had voided my warrenty for my turbo. I have to try to find a way where my downpipe had nothing to do with the damage, and I know it didnt because its been shitty before I put my mods on, I was just an idiot and didnt take it in to them then. They also said that if I put OEM parts back on they wont do anything, luckly my cousin worked for the dealership for 2 1/2years and was almost the #1 sales man every month:), so hes calling them to see what they can do for me. Ladies and Gents, dont touch the cats, #1 it mess's ur crap up and #2 it takes forever to take off. Actually if anyone knows of the fastest way to take of downpipe please let me know.... MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[Prison]

The following are my thoughts on how the smoking issue and aftermarket exhaust components are related. Flame away...

The 2.3 L DISI turbocharged MZR engine is boosted by a Hitachi K04 turbo that is suspected of having faulty turbo seals. There are numerous reports of replaced turbos for this problem and an excellent write up including pictorial evidence in the Forced Induction section of the mazdas247.com forum. It would interesting if those that have replaced their turbos with stock or aftermarket units had experienced smoking that had stopped upon replacement of the turbo.
This missive addresses the belief by some that the aftermarket exhaust modifications (DP, RP, CBE) somehow cause the engine to smoke. The smoke in question is a bluish smoke indicative of burning oil. Contrary to most people’s understanding, smoke of any kind is particulate (solid phase material) and not gaseous.
Changing the stock exhaust does not change the nature of the materials leaving the exhaust side of the turbo. Immediately after the exhaust exits the turbo however, there are dramatic changes with a different exhaust system. An aftermarket performance exhaust typically will have larger diameter tubing, high flow or no catalytic converter, and a high flow muffler and resonator system. All of these elements work to allow the exhaust to flow as freely as possible out of the motor. They do not however, change the material before it leaves the motor.
The 2.3 L DISI turbocharged MZR engine that comes in the Mazdaspeed6, Mazdaspeed3 and the CX-7 is outfitted with a restrictive DP containing two catalytic converters and connected to a restrictive exhaust system. A three-way catalytic converter has three simultaneous tasks:
1. Reduction of nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen: 2NOx → xO2 + N2
2. Oxidation of (non greenhouse gas, but toxic) carbon monoxide to less harmful (greenhouse gas) carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 → 2CO2
3. Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons to carbon dioxide and water: 2CxHy + (2x+y/2)O2 → 2xCO2 + yH2O
All of these exhaust elements result in increase exhaust gas temperatures relative to a typical aftermarket exhaust components. Replacement of any or all of the stock exhaust components will result in:
1. Faster exhaust gas flow
2. Faster expansion of exhaust gases
3. Cooler exhaust temperatures
a. more efficient exhaust gas expansion
b. shorter residence time of hot exhaust gases in the system
If our engines were burning oil from leaking turbo seals, it is likely that this hydrocarbon particulate could be oxidized to gaseous material all or in part during travel through the stock exhaust system for the following reasons:
1. reduction of the NOx gases will produce oxygen which will react with hydrocarbon particulate
2. Both CO and CO2 oxidizing materials that can oxidize particulate hydrocarbon
3. Oxidation of particulate hydrocarbon increases in efficiency with temperature, i.e. r = kt, where r is rate, k is Boltzmann’s constant and t is temperature
4. Increased residence time in the exhaust components will promote oxidation of particulate hydrocarbon materials.
Replacement of the stock exhaust components will result in less residence time, cooler temperatures, and reduced or eliminated catalytic converter function resulting in less oxidizing media. The cooler temperatures afforded with improved flow (aftermarket exhaust) will allow for condensation of hot exhaust products to solid particles or liquid droplets, in other words, smoke.
In short, an aftermarket exhaust will make your car smoke only if the engine is producing the materials (burnt oil) for smoke to form. In our case the oil is most likely coming from turbo seal problems. In any case, the exhaust does not cause issue resulting in the smoke, it just causes you to see it.

You say that the turbo has been suspected for having shity seals. Please let me know where I can get this information and how I can take it in to mazda, that way they will see that they are shity stock.

[Averia]

In our case the oil is most likely coming from turbo seal problems. In any case, the exhaust does not cause issue resulting in the smoke, it just causes you to see it.

So it is adventageous to put an aftermarket exhaust if nothing more than to make salient bad turbo seals... Then you need to convince your dealership to replace your turbo but after you remove the exhaust component(s).

[Target:STi]

technically, altering your cats will only void your emissions warranty. every new car made is gauranteed to pass 50 state emissions for 10 years i think it is, so by removing your cats, you threw this one out the window.
your power train warranty should still be in tact. if it is in fact the seals and oil lines, and you did nothing to modify them (or mess with them at all) then you can argue that fact. i can hardly imagine how under normal conditions a downpipe would cause the seals or oil lines to go, if the install was done right.

[Prison]

Yeah thats what I have heard. Plus I hope its right because I really dont want to take the dp off. It takes forever to do. And you need all the tools and such. Pain in the A@%

[3.slow]

There is word that a member had seals go bad on his 2008 MS3. He and I have nearly identical production dates 07/07. I will keep you guys posted.

[Powerslave]

if mines gonna go I hope it goes under warrenty, I wonder if this is covered under the 60,000 mile powertrain warrenty?

[snooky]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but, I have an SU test pipe and ever since I installed it ive had CRAZY SMOKE! Im nervous to go to mazda and tell them about the turbo seal and have them flip the switch on me and tell me its because of the TP… im not gonna remove the intercooler, because im a clutz and will prob break something. How bad is this for the car?


thanks

[ViDeo^_^kiD]

Upgrading the turbo or installing a bigger one isn't going to make the problem go away. I installed my turbo and no more than a week I noticed oil blow-by in the compressor side. Its not going to hurt anything so it doesn't bother me too much. Although I am going to install another one just to see if I can make since of the whole situation. I plan on getting a J and midpipe before I do just to make it isn't the backpressure causing the seals to blow.

My second guess about why the seals blow is the stock oil inlet. Too much oil pressure would certainly make the seals blow, right?

[Prison]

That I have no clue. But does anyone think that "if i get my seals fixed, or get a brand new turbo, and was to throw my downpipe back on...would i get this problem again?"

[wannabe]

That I have no clue. But does anyone think that "if i get my seals fixed, or get a brand new turbo, and was to throw my downpipe back on...would i get this problem again?"

you shouldn't. i don't personally know of anybody that had the seals and turbo replaced stock for stock that has had the problem again.

[daonly1around]

what i want to know is the turbo still leaking oil even with it completely stock, but the just not smoking because of the cats? that could be a SERIOUS problem cuz you would have NO evidence that it is going bad

[Prison]

Yeah my car use to smoke up before I put on mods. People say the intake is a big factor of the smoke. Im wondering what mazda says to people that have the mazda cold air on and take their car in. If its a mazda part that doesnt avoid warrenty, and with it the car smokes up, and some1 has taken it in 3 times.....LEMON:). Hey I would love to get all my money back and pick up the speed 6 in 2 more years when its gonna be perfect and mod friendly

[bigmixx]

Add one more to list of smoking Speed6's. Mine started smoking after about 23,000 miles. Took it to dealer, bad seal in the turbo. Got a new turbo and no more smoke. I got 39,800 on it now and its back in the shop as of yesterday. Started bucking and studdering if the RPM's get near 3000-4000k and the engine light came on. Early indications fromt he dealer say it's a bad ignition coil. I'm thinking it's something else but we'll see.

[Rutedown]

My seals went bad around 17K. The tech guy said that he had a few speed6's come in for smoke coming from the tailpipes. All had bad seals he said. He replaced the whole turbo for free of course and as I was getting ready to leave he told me Mazda made some changes to the turbos(the seals specifically) to keep this from happening. I ask him if I had the new turbo with the updated seals and he said he wasn't sure. He told me that he would looked up the info and get back to me. I ended up moving to Texas shortly afterward so I never heard back. I haven't had any problems for the last 3K...keeping fingers crossed. I still wonder if there was indeed updated seals for these turbos of if he was mistaken.(uhm)

[Silver Ecstasy]

I read up to page 4 and just skipped ahead to the last page.

Here's my take, coming from a complete Turbo novice, as well as someone who plans on keeping this car for a long time, in good working order:

It seems that these cars seem to smoke whenever the exhaust system is touched at all.

It seems that by replacing the exhaust, all that does is expose the problem rather than cause it.

It seems that Mazda already recognizes the existing turbo design is flawed, as they are so openly willing to replace the turbos when they smoke.

It seems that Mazda and Ford have already decided that the turbos used in the 3/6/CX-7 will not be used going forward with Ford's EcoBoost engines (which essentially are Mazda's direct injection designed engines):
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123715089

Most of us still have another 2 or 3 years before our warranty is up. And we all still maintain the option to extend it. It's not uncommon for a company to keep replacing the defective product until a solution has been created.

When I had my 05 GTO, they replaced my Dana rear axle 4 times because even after proper break-in (500 miles under 55mph), they would still howl and the differential would go bad each time. And everytime, they'd just swap it again. Even Dana started a core-exchange with GM because they knew how widespread the issue was.

Mazda is most likely going to issue some form of recall once Honeywell goes into full-effect. After enough testing, and enough confirmation, they hopefully will start replacing smoking turbos with newly designed turbos. In this case, it seems that Honeywell will be the turbo of choice.

This is the logic i'll be following until further notice. Otherwise, i'll enjoy my unmodded MS3 in the meantime. That is..until my wallet starts burning a hole in my pocket.

[FORZDA 1]

.......Here's my take....It seems that these cars seem to smoke whenever the exhaust system is touched at all. It seems that by replacing the exhaust, all that does is expose the problem rather than cause it.

One shouldn't make a blanket assumption on all Speed3/6 cars based on a few cases of anectdotal evidence posted on an internet forum. My `07 Speed6 with over 10k miles is a rocket on wheels (with an occasional blast of 18 psi) with NO problems with mods as listed in sig. I run 10w30 M1 oil...

.....It seems that Mazda already recognizes the existing turbo design is flawed, as they are so openly willing to replace the turbos when they smoke......It seems that Mazda and Ford have already decided that the turbos used in the 3/6/CX-7 will not be used going forward with Ford's EcoBoost engines (which essentially are Mazda's direct injection designed engines)

The K-04 turbo used in the Speed 3/6 is an existing plain-bearing (not ball bearing) design used on other cars and does indeed have some documented longevity/rotating shaft problems at the turbo rpms necessary to produce ~15 psi boost. If running at or above the 15psi max for a "period" of time(?) the shaft will overheat and the seals will leak. Make sure you don't run the 5w20 oil. Must run 5w30 or heavier. Check it out here: http://www.clubb5.com/information/ko4.shtml

If you pay for the dealer or other to change your oil, I expect you have 5w20 in the crankcase... Worst case the turbine wheel will begin to touch the housing and make a screeching noise until it fails completely. A local dealer has replaced one CX-7 turbo that failed catastrophically. None for smoking...

Note that Honeywell is the designer and builder of Garrett brand turbos, so the new turbo will likely have Garrett stamped on them and be ball-bearing designs.


Mazda is most likely going to issue some form of recall once Honeywell goes into full-effect......

Not likely, considering the small number of reported failures vs the number of cars (Speed 3/6, CX-7) sold... I don't care because I understand the risks of modding and I already have the big turbo is on my shelf, but maybe for those remaining on the OEM turbo...

[Silver Ecstasy]

Well maybe not a recall, but some kind of different replacement under warranty/tsb when the time comes for someone to need a replacement.

Stock oil is 5w20 from the factory?

[davecoyne]

For the MS6, it is 5w30.

[wannabe]

FYI there is apparently a TSB out for this now, which replaces the turbo and seals with updated part numbers.

[turbonium]

Meh. '06 Speed6 GT, 12,500 miles, Mobil1 synthetic. Wife commutes with it most days, never raced, modded, or even driven hard.

Brought it into the dlr. today for a PCM reflash (they did 3 recall notices, required to register car) and a few hours later they call to say it's smoking profusely @ idle. (flame) It wasn't doing that before today!

I went in to take a look, and it's definitely concentrated bursts of bluish oil smoke that aren't well mixed with the rest of the exhaust stream--i.e., the oil is being injected very late in the process. They say they need to run 'extensive tests' but I have little doubt what it is.

This car is bone-stock, FWIW. I've done the oil changes myself, at the correct interval, but have no idea where my receipts are. (What do they really prove, anyway? I use the same oil for other cars.)