Ran the Speed3 at the track today...learned what NOT to do!

[fourthmeal]

<snip>

[mountjonas]

CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK. i don't know what that was, but it did not sound good. i must say. i've never been a fan of the 3 in wagon form, but yours looks really good.

[Nutari]

wtf was that noise? Mine doesn't do that... (dunno)

[C'ville]

Lets hope that sound was the traction control.
I like to leave the drag strip to the mustangs and such, Especially with a brand new car.

Hope nothing was damaged.

[justa4banger]

Damn that was loud. I know i can't stand the 1-2 shift THUNK you get from driving hard. I'm hoping a AWR mount fixes that.

I know my VW would make some god aweful noises when it wheel hopped.
Nice vids , and nice car :D same as mine.

[WTF MATE]

HAHA sounds like your diff was cold in the first one, I thought they used a clutch type, probablly just the plates chattering, no big deal. Was that a wrx in the second go, if so that sucks that you lost to it.

[fourthmeal]

Couldn't been the diff, the wheels weren't spinning. They were hopping. The whole car shook like I just went down a washboard road at 100mph. Then the shifter was useless for a few seconds. When it all settled down (about 150 ft into the race), I just decided to coast most the way to the finish.

Second race, traction control was on. Thats why I lost to the Subie. That, and the fact he had some crazy mods. But, mostly because of traction control bog. I saw the light on my dashboard and noticed the car just died out, and that was when I lost my head of steam against the Subie. Watch it again, and you'll notice that once I switch that off, I stay on his tail the whole way.

[dread]

oh man I would have crapped my paints if my car made that noise, and I definately would not have finished the race. your car looks sweet though.

[TheMAN]

umm... learn how to control the clutch? sounds like a horrible case of clutch chatter then overheating

[fourthmeal]

yeah, wearing work boots wasn't the smartest idea to feel the friction zone of the clutch. Who was talking about overheating??

Anyway, I'm going to pull every soft piece of (likely now broken) rubber out of the engine bay, and replace it with something stronger, then try again. Also, I think I'll put steel washers in place of the rubber ones in the shifter. That way the rubbery feel shouldn't occur again.

Once moving, the car hauls. Its the launch that is killing me. MF'ing front wheel drive.

[TheMAN]

you overheated the clutch, plain and simple

reading comprehension?

[justa4banger]

Yea i ran a 07 Gt (closed course) 3 times. first was 40 punch and it was no problem, second from the dig and MY god man it sucked badly i didn't bother trying to chase him. third time was a 20 punch, i got him again.

the cars are quick but finding the sweet spot for launching and not bogging /wheelhopping, is going to cost a bunch of clutch. something i'm not willing to pay.

I'll leave the 5k clutch drops to my SVO.

[fourthmeal]

MY ONLY comprehension is how rude you can be about the subject. I was in the damn thing. I know what I did, and what I did wrong.

Thanks to those who've been nice about it. The whole reason I posted this is not to be chided, it was so people don't make the same errors.

[tru-boost]

i think it was the diff.... the diff. locks when driving hard in a straight line, but if the wheels hop all over and cause the tires to spin at different speeds it will try to unlock the diff., just like it would if you were cornering.

[WagonMan]

you overheated the clutch, plain and simple

reading comprehension?
You are a clown, overheated clutch on a new car on the first race of the night. Do you own a Speed3, have you driven one. It is clearly wheel hop, which is known problem on the Speed3, I know mine does it all the time.

I think my next mod will be the stiffer tranny mount.

[TheMAN]

that's nice

explain why he couldn't shift/had a hard time shifting?

clutches fuck up when beat on, duh!

[WagonMan]

that's nice

explain why he couldn't shift/had a hard time shifting?

clutches fuck up when beat on, duh!
I agree, that is why I don't think it is a clutch issue in this case.

First run of the night, very new car. Which means the clutch is likely to be in good condition, would have been relatively cool when the car was run, and would be very unlikely to be glazed due to abuse. As well no one has yet indicated any clutch issues on the MS3, which is most likely due to the fact they are all new cars and new clutches.

However, many people have noted the wheel hop problem the MS3 has, as is common with high horsepower cars with sticky tires. As well many have noted the relatively sloppy MS3 shifter, which can be hard to get into gear due to soft engine mounts.

So Sherlock Holmes, what is more likely, the clutch or wheel hop?

BTW, I didn't call you a clown because of your clutch theory, but because you're second post was so unnecessarily insulting.

[fourthmeal]

car isn't that new. It has 3800 miles on it. I don't baby it, but I don't drag race stoplight to stoplight either. I'm not afraid to punch it though. The clutch doesn't seem like a problem on this car. The wheel hop caused by a botched high rpm launch, super sticky track, low psi tires, and extremely weak factory mounts all culminated, I believe, in what I experienced. The clatter sound you heard on the outside wasn't audible from the inside. It sounded much more like hitting a washboard road at too fast a speed.

I believe as all this motion was happening, that the linkages to the shifter were out of alignment with the gear selector. Basically it was all bouncing around. Interestingly, you can grab the linkage (complete with counterweights) at the transmission side and SHIFT gears on the car. You can push it forward and back, and it will arc across a path. Also, you can lift up or push down on the weight and turn, and that selects other gears. With that part being counter-weighted, and with all the linkages being connected with soft bushings all over the place, AND with the motor mounts allowing all these parts to move back and forth a TON, I think therein is the recipe for shift control loss. It only makes sense once you witness the design at the transmission side. Just pull your airbox to see what I'm talking about. EEEK!

So, anyway, it all comes down to this:
Hopefully you fellow MS3 owners take something away from what I found out the hard way. Don't hard RPM launch the car like Mazda suggested to the magazine journalists. Don't race with traction control on (duh), and if you don't fuck up the launch, nor loose the feeling of where the gears are within the shifter, the car will move nicely down the track.

And to the person(s) who've taken this post as a way to criticize what I've already admitted to being mistakes, ...you've missed the point of this post completely. You receive zero points for your effort. We are now all dumber for having to listen to your post. Good day.

<now where is the two middle fingers in the air smiley?>

To those who get what I'm saying here...sweet. Its all about learning experiences and what we can bring to the forum community. If someone doesn't have to go through the painful learning curve that I did, better for them, eh?

[mattleegee]

driving skills are the most important at the track

[spedwards]

Unlucky, you'll get it next time! Love the silver by the way, we don't get that option down under...

[justa4banger]

Yea i'm not to found of cable shifters. my VW was notorious for missing shifts if you tried to SLAM through them. Short shifter helped, but its just the nature of the beast. On the flip note i never upgraded motor mounts and people claim that helps.

One day i'll get around to buying/installing an AWR piece and shifter bushings. Sounds like this is the mod to do first and foremost.

I will say this, you would have been better off with keeping the tires FULL and trying to spin them on the launch. For FWD it was the best way to launch IMO.In my Veedub i would spray first just to get a little spin and RIDE it out then go for the kill in the higher gears. My thinking was better to burn a little rubber then drop the whole engine/tranny out the bottom of the car. Wheel hop in ANY vehicle is bad for the drivetrain.

As for the Diff comment mentioned above, i'm not exactly sure which diff is in our tranny's but i'm pretty certain ITS NOT a locker style. probably clutch pack type. So the chances of the diff LOCKING and UNLOCKING....... ummm NO. Even if it was a locker style it wouldn't unload from wheel hop.

[Bakrauf]

Dude my car (MS3) has done the same thing, and so Did my MSp and it scared the shit outta me. When I ever get on hit hard I get a wham wham from the front end. I always thought it was the LSD. People riding with me say WTF is that and I tell them its the LSD locking up. Is it or is it wheel hop? I truely think its the LSD and it seems to hit hard. I, like fourthmeal thought i dropped my entire front end.

[justa4banger]

wheel hop does suck, and personally i think it should be a recall for any vehicle that wheel hops. it can destroy drivetrain and suspension parts, but since the bean counters and engineers have overal say in production models, they win with softer/cheaper motor mounts and bad suspension design thats more prone to wheel hopping.

either way my suggestion is if you planon spirited driving , like i plan, then time to upgrade some parts.

[sixblade]

engine mounts make a huge diffrence with shifting. Both in my GTI vr6 and my 88 mr2 shifted so much better after replacing the engine mounts.

[BOOSTR]

I'm sure it sounded worse than it was. It was almost a light metallic thumping sound versus something falling apart. What brand of tires come on the MS3?

[justa4banger]

Tires are sticky Potenza Re50's 140 treadwear.
Won't last long, but grip like no tomorrow. Not a good winter tire i hear, but spring is coming soon.

[WagonMan]

It is not just a matter of bean counting that results in cars having wheel hop. The Cadi CTS-V suffers from bad wheel hop, and previous generation BMW M5s can also suffer. If you read Car and Drivers review of the current gen. M5 with the manual tranny they claim BMW won't let you turn off the DSC and Trac control fully in order to avoid wheel hop, and the expensive repairs that can result. My BMW 540 occassionally suffers from it as well, although not as bad as the MS3.

It is a result of having soft suspension and/or engine mounts in order to make for a comfortable car, and very sticky tires. Like everything it is a trade off, stiff mounts, higher NVH, no wheel hop vs soft mounts and wheel hop. These companies assume most people would rather have lower NVH, as wheel hop only occurs in certain circumstances whereas a vibrating dashboard is always annoying.

[dcomiskey]

Drag strips aren't race tracks. Take it to a REAL track and see what you can do. ;)

[C'ville]

Drag strips aren't race tracks. Take it to a REAL track and see what you can do. ;)

I 2nd that, this car is not made to drag race.
But do as you please with your own car :)

[justa4banger]

I 2nd that, this car is not made to drag race.
But do as you please with your own car

Cause you know all the top drivers are road course racing in Wagons these days. :rolleyes:
No car is made for any one thing. The MS3 is an econobox, that rides well, pretty balanced, has great features and nice power. Has a few quirks but hey what car doesn't.
i bought my MS3 to replace my GTI. Things i required: It be quick, decent on gas, have 4 doors, and relatively cheap, amongst a few others. the MS3 met my requirements.
whether or not i can mod it is irrelevant. thats why i have a toy car with a 2.3 turbo.

Back on topic I plan on running my MS3 soon on the 1/8th (no near by 1/4 miles) and then do the engine mount change and see the difference.
I'm sure they will be one. If i break it, oh well warranty has got me covered.

[C'ville]

Cause you know all the top drivers are road course racing in Wagons these days. :rolleyes: .

I never said that, I'm just stating that I think the MS3's biggest plus is driving it on something that isn't a straight line.
I don’t see anything wrong with this car being a wagon,
School me on why it’s a bad thing compared to a coupe or sedan?

[clos561]

car isn't that new. It has 3800 miles on it. I don't baby it, but I don't drag race stoplight to stoplight either. I'm not afraid to punch it though. The clutch doesn't seem like a problem on this car. The wheel hop caused by a botched high rpm launch, super sticky track, low psi tires, and extremely weak factory mounts all culminated, I believe, in what I experienced. The clatter sound you heard on the outside wasn't audible from the inside. It sounded much more like hitting a washboard road at too fast a speed.

I believe as all this motion was happening, that the linkages to the shifter were out of alignment with the gear selector. Basically it was all bouncing around. Interestingly, you can grab the linkage (complete with counterweights) at the transmission side and SHIFT gears on the car. You can push it forward and back, and it will arc across a path. Also, you can lift up or push down on the weight and turn, and that selects other gears. With that part being counter-weighted, and with all the linkages being connected with soft bushings all over the place, AND with the motor mounts allowing all these parts to move back and forth a TON, I think therein is the recipe for shift control loss. It only makes sense once you witness the design at the transmission side. Just pull your airbox to see what I'm talking about. EEEK!

So, anyway, it all comes down to this:
Hopefully you fellow MS3 owners take something away from what I found out the hard way. Don't hard RPM launch the car like Mazda suggested to the magazine journalists. Don't race with traction control on (duh), and if you don't fuck up the launch, nor loose the feeling of where the gears are within the shifter, the car will move nicely down the track.

And to the person(s) who've taken this post as a way to criticize what I've already admitted to being mistakes, ...you've missed the point of this post completely. You receive zero points for your effort. We are now all dumber for having to listen to your post. Good day.

<now where is the two middle fingers in the air smiley?>

To those who get what I'm saying here...sweet. Its all about learning experiences and what we can bring to the forum community. If someone doesn't have to go through the painful learning curve that I did, better for them, eh?
i always race with traction control on....if u mean that dcs button on the left...i alwayshave it on and neverhave problems launching....shifting problems are my fault..i try to shift to fast...and minor grind....i got alot better and it doesnt happen ne more...wtf does dcs stand for neways?

[Aviboy97]

i always race with traction control on....if u mean that dcs button on the left...i alwayshave it on and neverhave problems launching....shifting problems are my fault..i try to shift to fast...and minor grind....i got alot better and it doesnt happen ne more...wtf does dcs stand for neways?

DSC is Dynamic Stability Control. If you turn that off, your traction control should turn off as well. From what I have heard, with those systems deactivated, it is easier to launch.

My MS6 does not launch well, and I heard a "clunk" when I left it on. My next few launches was with it off, and I simply took off.

[Rotus8]

i always race with traction control on....if u mean that dcs button on the left...i alwayshave it on and neverhave problems launching....shifting problems are my fault..i try to shift to fast...and minor grind....i got alot better and it doesnt happen ne more...wtf does dcs stand for neways?
The normal state is ON. If you push the button the light goes on and the system is off.

[yashooa]

Man this thread sounds just like the MSP threads back in the day. Our cars wheel hopped like a bitch to. That damn motor would bounce around like a methed up Hollander, river dancing with clogs on.
Not fun. But these new AWR mounts solved that problem.
Niether car is a drag car so you are kind of beating it into submission :)

[tru-boost]

the awr mount helps this a lot !
i just did mine yesterday and ....wow !!
it will still hop but not nearly as much or as violent.

[clos561]

how do u guys launch...i get wheelspin. and it sticks right away....maybe because i use the traction...duno whatu guys are talkn about..i doesnt seemtodothat for me really...

[Mocoso]

wheel hop does suck, and personally i think it should be a recall for any vehicle that wheel hops. it can destroy drivetrain and suspension parts, but since the bean counters and engineers have overal say in production models, they win with softer/cheaper motor mounts and bad suspension design thats more prone to wheel hopping.

either way my suggestion is if you planon spirited driving , like i plan, then time to upgrade some parts.

I agree bean counters shouldnt have a say but to leave the engineers out of it.. if you dont want engineers having a say in the car design then who?

[CTGrey02]

The track is a completely different environment from the street. I have far less traction on the strip than I do on the street (even with drag radials) so I typically launch with out raising the RPM so I can at least have traction. I can't watch your runs from work but from the sounds of it, if your going to raise the RPM you need to ride out the clutch (not good for it) to compensate or you will get wheel hop. Wheel hop kills half shafts so be careful.

[LinuxRacr]

People always ask what my car runs in the 1/4. I tell them I don't know...because I don't You see, my car is not a drag car, but a fun daily driver that I can boost, and kill corners in.

[justa4banger]

I agree bean counters shouldnt have a say but to leave the engineers out of it.. if you dont want engineers having a say in the car design then who?

Its not so much who should be left out. Engineneers and testers know the issues the bean counters then lean on them to look the other way or make it acceptable/"good enough " to last the length of the warranty.

Theres always a trade off, and in the end the car enthusist will get left out. Mainly Becuase their isn't enough of us to warrant an entire fleet of Strictly "race" cars.

[justa4banger]

I say we pitch in and make a "from a roll drag strip" so wheel hopping fools like us and other stupid high powered cars don't break shit. Who's in?

[LinuxRacr]

I say we pitch in and make a "from a roll drag strip" so wheel hopping fools like us and other stupid high powered cars don't break shit. Who's in?

What, will it have a conveyor belt at the beginning, that lets you roll up to 40 MPH, and then when you launch, it stops, so you go?

[clos561]

What, will it have a conveyor belt at the beginning, that lets you roll up to 40 MPH, and then when you launch, it stops, so you go?
ive seen videos of a roll race track...porsche vs a m5...they stay even until they hit a cone setup and they floor it...it wasprety badass...they didita fewtimes seemed to work fine

[chaos4]

This is NOT NOT NOT a dragster!! You wannabes really frost my butt! You wanted to turn a what?? A 13.6? Read the road tests rookie, a 14.2-14.4 by drivers who know what they are doing!!(flame2)
Put your money into some High Performance Driving Schools and run the road courses, that's what this car was meant to do.
Here in the Northeast there are at least 3 Sports Car groups that offer excellent instruction and a chance to run solo on great road courses. Here is one:

2007 Track Days in the Northeast with COM Sports Car Club

http://www.comscc.org

COM Offers Performance driver’s education and time trial series at these prestigious road courses for less then $200 per day. We have top level instructors available and welcome drivers of every experience level, including first timers. For first time participants attending a non-NHIS event, COM will waive its initial membership fee.
New Hampshire International Speedway (April 9 & 10, July 7 & 8, August 20 & 21, October 20 & 21)
Watkins Glen, NY – Long Circuit (April 23 & 24)
Calabogie - Ontario, Canada – brand new track (May 28 & 29)
Mosport – Ontario, Canada (June 11 & 12)
Mont Tremblant – Quebec, Canada (July 30 & 31)
Lime Rock Park, CT (November 16 & 17)

[spedwards]

Eh-hrmmm, 13.9 3 MPS, first time at the track with NO performance modifications:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xumk_VbvcNM

Just cause the people who road test cars drive all the time doesn't mean they know how to drive this one... 13.6 is definitely possible!

[fourthmeal]

WTF? Some of you need to get off the soap box. Some of you get what I'm saying (which isn't much, its just a post about what happened, and that I hope its not an everyday occurance for other MS3 owners), but others need to STFU.

I went to the drag strip because there IS one here, and to let a little steam off after a long day at work. I'm not trying to turn sub 12 second times here. I can tell you that getting the car to run under 14 will not be a problem at all, though. My second run had a nearly perfect launch at a lower RPM, with slight clutch feathering and full PSI on the tires. Much better compared with my first attempt. My failure, however, was that I forgot to turn off the DSC. So, as soon as a tiny bit of wheelspin started at the end of 1st gear, the computer cut the engine power, and as you can see in vid 2, that caused a huge loss in momentum and acceleration. So, as I shifted into second with my right hand, I tapped the DSC off with my left, and the rest of the run was acceptable.

Note that I am not saying I'm good at it. I have nothing to prove. If I wanted to, I'd have bought a Mustang or something, because they do well on the 1/4. However, I do want to try to make a solid 14.0 or better, if for nothing more then to know that the car is capable of it, with good driving. Don't preach to me about skills, or about schools. I'm not 12, or 18 either. I'm 27, married, and out to have a good time and keep excess speed off the streets.

Why do you think I can turn a 14.0 or better, if the journalists only turn 14.2-14.4? They ran it bone stock, and I cut my airbox. IF they'd done that, I think they'd run 14.0 or better. Simply put, the engine has more power now, and doesn't choke off at higher revs. This has been proven, and is not up for debate. The only thing up for debate is whether or not I can keep the wheel hop and rubbery shifter feel under control on the next run. I'm looking into an upgrade route that should take care of that.

Thanks to those who've complimented the car. Its virtually stock, but about to see a very nice stealth audio upgrade, and some other niceties.

[CTGrey02]

Theres nothing wrong with drag racing this or any other car. If you want to see raw acceleration, the strip is the best way to do it. You'll do better on your subsequent runs. Live, learn and try again.

[chaos4]

You are correct, there is nothing wrong with drag racing this or any other car. The fact is, this car, and many other sports sedans were not designed to take the tremendous forces involved in that sport. Why do the drivers always blame the auto makers when something breaks (the Mazda motor mounts were not designed to to take the forces created when you wheel hop the car)?

Mazdaspeed also recognizes the limits imposed by the stock intake and will be releasing a factory CAI in later February/early March.
The part number will be GRMS-8M-L29 (Mazdaspeed3 only)
and for the serious road racer, a Coilover kit Part Number RAMS-8M-L10 (bet that will loosen your teeth fillings on the frost heaves of the Northeast(cheers2)

Actually, I began my auto racing drag racing in the 1970's (OK, maybe in the later 60's?) and still enjoy the acceleration and thrill of a well thrown shift. Is my Mazdaspeed3 such a car? Nope, not as delivered, but it sure does rock your booty once underway!
Get out on the road courses, that's closer to what this car was designed for. But here again, realize that the factory supplied brakes, tires and suspension are not IDEAL, but a good compromise with a decent riding road car.
In any event, enjoy your car, but face it, hard driving does not come without breaking things!(headshake

[CTGrey02]

I'm not concerned with breaking things as I have several other cars to drive when things break and I do the work myself. My mustang has been my drag car of choice until I put the independant rear onto it along with the bigger brakes and other suspension goodies. I plan on getting that out to LRP during a rental next season as well as back to the drag strip. The Mazda can and will be drag raced as well when I pick it up, despite not being ideal. I'm not competing with the vehicle as much as I am satisfying my own needs to see what I can do with stock performance - I don't street race so the strip is the best test facility available. It will be occasionally autocrossed as well, but again, nothing competitive. Above all though, it's going to be a daily driver/beater for me.

[SwampAss]

engine mounts make a huge diffrence with shifting. Both in my GTI vr6 and my 88 mr2 shifted so much better after replacing the engine mounts.


Same here. I also replaced my manual transaxle fluid with GM syncro mesh and never had another shifting issue. (on the VW)

[SwampAss]

FWIW fourthmeal, I appreciate the story about your experience at the track. Why you went and what the car is or isn't designed for really doesn't matter. I didn't get the impression you bought the car to bracket race. I got the impression you were just telling us what happened.

[boostdprotegelx]

whatever the case may be, you have a car, brand new, under warranty. these are the times you wanna take the car to the track. if you break it, it's free!!

aside from that, your second run- the WRX sounded BADASS. Your run wasn't horrible but, here's something to maybe help you out. The guys that test cars, don't always know how to drive the best.. each car is different. My protege, in stock form was tested at like...17.Xx or something. i ran in stock form, 16.63. not huge, but good enough for me w/ no mods. gave me something to work on. I now did an engine swap and what not, and haven't had the time to check out the new motor, nor have i broke it in yet.

anyways, +1 for trying, +1 for a supportive family of yours, and +1 for going back. just try again next time. get used to the car and you'll do fine. i see a definate 14 next time if you try hard enough, and if you continue, maybe you'll hit 13s.GOOD LUCK.

[WTF MATE]

I've ran a 14.01 with mine, best thing was launching at 3k and slowly disengaging the clutch, no wheel hop and no crazy noise. As for drag racing or road racing if it's your car do whatever you want with it. I'm sure the engineers at chevy weren't planning on there cobalt to turn into the fastest street legal fwd car in the world. And honda sure as hell was planning on there EG sohc hatches to be running 10sec passes on boost.

[zoom-zoomhatch]

I just made another thread about it, but check your passenger side motor mount, cause mine sounded alot like that and that mount is toast.

[chaos4]

I've ran a 14.01 with mine, best thing was launching at 3k and slowly disengaging the clutch, no wheel hop and no crazy noise. As for drag racing or road racing if it's your car do whatever you want with it. I'm sure the engineers at chevy weren't planning on there cobalt to turn into the fastest street legal fwd car in the world. And honda sure as hell was planning on there EG sohc hatches to be running 10sec passes on boost.

The Cobalt is the fastest street legal fwd in the world? Surely you mean when modded to the gills? I think STOCK, you will find the MS3 and the Neon SRT4 at the front of the pack.

[mazdarodi]

I have wheel hop on lanch, too. But that didn't sound like wheel hop. Good luck

[Brannon]

Thanks for the info. I haven't had a chance to take my ms3 to the track yet. I think the point of this thread was to learn from another's mistake. So I appreciate you sharing your experience. I bought this car because I wanted a car that had plenty of room, performance, good gas mileage at an affordable price. Not because I want a 10 second drag car. I feel I got all that and then some. This car is leading it's class in every way. I agree 1/4 mile is fun and so is a road course. Unfortunately road courses are expensive and not as prevalent. The only strip I know of here in San Diego is the 1/8th mile strip at Qualcom. If anyone knows of another one let me know. I just broke my ms3 in so I haven't even gotten on it at all really. So DSC off = less wheel hop? After reading this thread I think one of my first mods will be motor mounts. Thanks for sharing your experience. Very helpful. (rei)

[fourthmeal]

DSC off means the electronics won't cut power to the engine when wheelspin occurs. I leave DSC on when its raining (here in Vegas, that ain't often), but pretty much turn it off any other time.

[Brannon]

DSC off means the electronics won't cut power to the engine when wheelspin occurs. I leave DSC on when its raining (here in Vegas, that ain't often), but pretty much turn it off any other time.


Cool. Good to know. Doesn't rain much here either. Although it's raining today.

[WTF MATE]

The Cobalt is the fastest street legal fwd in the world? Surely you mean when modded to the gills? I think STOCK, you will find the MS3 and the Neon SRT4 at the front of the pack.
Yea I was talking about fastest FWD vehicle modded, Jason Whitfield's cobalt runs 9sec 1/4 mile times and is still street legal.

[Karma_hunden]

dont listen to the magazines...their drivers drive it normally...so their times are average, not the best you can pull. Motortrend said the MS6 pulled a 14.2 or something..everybody is running flat 14s and high 13s stock while as the legacy gt specB is stuck in the 14s...and they got a better 1/4mile time by motorshit...who seems to be subaru biased in every roadtest they perform.

[Karma_hunden]

hey fourthmeal, a co-worker says to stop bragging about your MS3 lol...did you really say it ran 12s?????

check his thread at the rsx forums ---> http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=451235

[fourthmeal]

no, we were talking about someone's Camaro (or T/A) running 12's or so with the STS turbo kit. The bragging I did was to expect the MS3 to run 14.0 flat or better. I sucked at dragging the thing, so I got nowhere near that, but my trap speed is proof that w/ either more practice, or a better drag driver, you'll have an MS3 in the 13.9 range or better on the Vegas track.

If any bragging was done about 12's, it would have been about my previous motorcycle or my old Supra Turbo. :P

Also, and I think I'll call him out on this one, Alex is a riceboy. The End. Muwhahaha. Take that and stuff it up your oversized exhaust canister.

<awaiting revenge>

oh,..I'm off to post up on that forum THE TRUTH since it doesn't seem to be available from him. We bench raced while at work, I challenged him maybe 20 times to run up the road (its a desolate, wide, smooth industry road) during lunch break, just for shits and grins. He kept turning me down. So,...whatever, ya know? Its just a car either way. But staying true to what you preach has me up in a fit about his attitude toward it all and THEN to post some shit talking about it all...man,...I'm only to page 1 of that post and I'm infuriated.

I'll post back when I've read it all.

[Karma_hunden]

LOL, funny shit is that everyone in the forum kept telling him...

"no dude, you wont beat him.."

"but, but...what if...what if i put my "no, you wont beat him"...*sigh*...

Good luck on that rampage.

[fourthmeal]

Ahh...that felt good. Thanks Karma_hunden! I think I set the record straight. I think my post says it all on that forum.

[Karma_hunden]

yeah dude, good job!! he got MSWN3D!! lol

I was looking for MS3 videos and typed 'MazdaSpeed 3 vs' on google and abrakadabra...there it was...LOL...i was reading it like "w/e"...until i went to page 5 to see the video and saw it was you LOL...i was like 'OH sNap!' hehe

(usa)

[peanutsparts]

Cool. Good to know. Doesn't rain much here either. Although it's raining today.

It's been almost 2 weeks, and it's still raining!

[zoom-zoomhatch]

If he's even close to stock go own him and shut him up. I ran a 350z tonight from a 60 roll(not yet opened piece of new highway) and nosed up on him after I got into 5th.

[hopupimports]

no, we were talking about someone's Camaro (or T/A) running 12's or so with the STS turbo kit. The bragging I did was to expect the MS3 to run 14.0 flat or better. I sucked at dragging the thing, so I got nowhere near that, but my trap speed is proof that w/ either more practice, or a better drag driver, you'll have an MS3 in the 13.9 range or better on the Vegas track.

If any bragging was done about 12's, it would have been about my previous motorcycle or my old Supra Turbo. :P

Also, and I think I'll call him out on this one, Alex is a riceboy. The End. Muwhahaha. Take that and stuff it up your oversized exhaust canister.

<awaiting revenge>

oh,..I'm off to post up on that forum THE TRUTH since it doesn't seem to be available from him. We bench raced while at work, I challenged him maybe 20 times to run up the road (its a desolate, wide, smooth industry road) during lunch break, just for shits and grins. He kept turning me down. So,...whatever, ya know? Its just a car either way. But staying true to what you preach has me up in a fit about his attitude toward it all and THEN to post some shit talking about it all...man,...I'm only to page 1 of that post and I'm infuriated.

I'll post back when I've read it all.
well well well, look what i found! im a riceboy huh? yea, your a dumbass. you have yet to ask me to race, except on the forums. you really really REALLY need to start acting your age. your are so fucking dumb. you know you said your car will do 12.5 (everybody else at the shop heard you say it too). but when you post on here to people that know cars (unlike you) you seem to take that statement back? i dont understand?.... oh, well maybe its because you know that everybody will make fun of you (like we do at work).
so, i guess this is my goodbye message until next time. GROW UP!

[hopupimports]

LOL, funny shit is that everyone in the forum kept telling him...

"no dude, you wont beat him.."

"but, but...what if...what if i put my "no, you wont beat him"...*sigh*...

Good luck on that rampage.
actully, you obviously cant read, can you? you should probly go back, and have your mom read everything that is said on there to you, so you will know what is said on there.

[hopupimports]

If he's even close to stock go own him and shut him up. I ran a 350z tonight from a 60 roll(not yet opened piece of new highway) and nosed up on him after I got into 5th.
and you, you didnt read anything did you? im not even close to stock, so why would you even consider saying that? lol at you thinking you kept up with a 350z. and if buy any chance you did (which i doubt it) it was probly a 2003. (just so you know those were the slowest ones made)

[zoom-zoomhatch]

[QUOTE=hopupimports]and you, you didnt read anything did you? im not even close to stock, so why would you even consider saying that? lol at you thinking you kept up with a 350z. and if buy any chance you did (which i doubt it) it was probly a 2003. (just so you know those were the slowest ones madeQUOTE]

Not sure if your gonna come back on here but you can eat my ass(fu) I don't have time for people like you that are e-net bad boys talking to people some hundreds of miles from you that you don't know calling them a liar. I don't know what year the thing was but I know I beat him and I know you weren't there. That and the guys car was pretty dang new, so it wasn't an 03.(fuoops)

[jdmls88]

w/ out a doubt wheel hop, the tires were smacking his fenders and 350z are slow junk, they look cool but are slow(good kill by the way a 60 pull is hard)

[zoom-zoomhatch]

Not many people consider a low 14 sec. car factory slow.

[C'ville]

WOW 3rd post and nothing but love..(dunno)


well well well, look what i found! im a riceboy huh? yea, your a dumbass. you have yet to ask me to race, except on the forums. you really really REALLY need to start acting your age. your are so fucking dumb. you know you said your car will do 12.5 (everybody else at the shop heard you say it too). but when you post on here to people that know cars (unlike you) you seem to take that statement back? i dont understand?.... oh, well maybe its because you know that everybody will make fun of you (like we do at work).
so, i guess this is my goodbye message until next time. GROW UP!



actully, you obviously cant read, can you? you should probly go back, and have your mom read everything that is said on there to you, so you will know what is said on there.





and you, you didnt read anything did you? im not even close to stock, so why would you even consider saying that? lol at you thinking you kept up with a 350z. and if buy any chance you did (which i doubt it) it was probly a 2003. (just so you know those were the slowest ones made)

[jdmls88]

Not many people consider a low 14 sec. car factory slow.

lol its a v6 sports car!? nissan could have done a much better job, minimum of atleast 300hp. the ms3 is different its light 4 cyl and has 5 doors lol and fast! thats impressive

[zoom-zoomhatch]

They really could have, maybe not made it such a boat to start. Just as an example some people consider a stock 14.8 mustang gt or rsx-s fast.

[jdmls88]

Just as an example some people consider a stock 14.8 mustang gt or rsx-s fast

thats some people lol. Something is probably wrong with me but my definition of fast(my opinion) is atleast into the 12s

[zoom-zoomhatch]

You don't have to do much to get me pleased with the speed of a car, a high 13 sec. car can beat most the college kids that run around this town, with the exception of the occational sti, modded f-body, and a particular rb swapped 240 that made me look stoopid on the highway the other day.

[jdmls88]

hahaha yea my friend george just bought a 300zx to drop the rb26 in, its gunna be sick!

[zoom-zoomhatch]

What year model, I was thinking it would be fun to have like an 80s model with a rb in it, but I'm still determined to do a ls1 2nd gen rx-7.

[gsrtype1]

Well, I was hoping for 13.8-14.0 at the track tonight. Here in Vegas, its Midnight Mayhem as about 450 cars lined up (what a cluster fuck) to race the 1/4 mile. I was confident that my stock MS3 could do something decent. And then I discovered what it is like to have the entire front end of my car slam up and down into the pavement, grabbing for traction and hopping hopelessly and destructively for the first 100 feet. The video link to race 1 below is the shitty first pass I made.

The problem was that I left in too great a hurry, I think. I had a difficult time staging because I couldn't see the light triggers (well they weren't marked too well), and as soon as I saw two lights, I revved up to about 3k. I intended to slip it out just a bit and hit second, but I botched it. That, and that they just covered the track with super sticky stuff that gave me WAAAY too much traction. Pre-race (and pre-knowledge that they treated the track so agressively), I adjusted my front tires to 25psi (which turns on the low pressure light on the dash), and thats it. As you can see and here from my run, I pretty much got lucky that I didn't break down right on the track. The noises heard both in the cabin and out at the race track were excruciating. Listen to it and tell me what I almost broke! Or maybe did break, but haven't found out yet. The entire crowd flinched and gasped when they heard it. Anyway, after that horrible first gear launch (actually it was a great 2.3 second 60 footer, but I'm talking about the hop), the whole transmission acted dead. So, as you can see in the video, I can't find any gear to move forward in. I tried 2nd, couldn't get it go, then went to 3rd, and it was as if it was disconnected. I coasted another second, and tried 2nd again, and managed to get it to slip in. 3rd, and 4th were also super hard to get into. I pretty much thought I blew something! But, on the cooldown run back, the car was completely normal. I had power, gears, everything. So, my thought on it was that with all the rubber mounts and every bushing shoved in aggressive ways, the linkage must have been out of alignment. Who knows, but it made for a terrible 16.3 second pass.

Second run, I was extremely fearful of hopping and destroying something, so I left the tree at about the same pace as I would if I was on the street just going to work. Then I realized about a second too late that I left the traction control ON! Woops! So, naturally, the engine cut power at the end of first gear. I shifted to 2nd and simultaneously turned the DSC off, and from there on out, I was golden. The car ran good, and the trans didn't act up. It was nice. I still had a sucky 1/4 mile time, as well as MPH, but I attribute it to the fact that I left the DSC on. Anyway, not a great time out there (since the amount of cars forced incredibly long waits. I probably waited 3 hours per run.) Its so funny, because on the way home, I blew the doors off several cars that must have seen my racing numbers and wanted to play. I don't know for sure, but it seems like the car has more confidence off the track then on. And surely the engine and trans mounts are incredibly soft and crappy. That is my next mod, so I don't end up having to get a tow out of the drag strip.
Anyhow, look at the videos, critique, comment, make fun of, whatever. I'm just glad I was able to drive it home. I seriously thought I was screwed on the very first pass.

These are huge videos, I just don't have the software to downsize them. They were shot off of my Sony DSC-H2 camera in video capture mode. Pretty good resolution and pretty good frame rate IMO.
Race 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrM7YT6FoPE)
Race 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1u1cejpA1E)

[jdmls88]

Wheel hop-
An undesirable suspension characteristic in which a wheel (or several) moves up and down so violently that it actually leaves the ground. Wheel hop can be caused by many problems, including excessive unsprung weight, insufficient shock damping, or poor torsional axle control.

thats the noise, it was his first run so it wasnt heat on the clutch, it wasnt the diff its an lsd, its made for a beatin, and the tires arent sticky enough stock they will just spin, especially with 275+ ft/lbs spinnign them so its not too much traction, actually its not enough.

[WTF MATE]

They really could have, maybe not made it such a boat to start. Just as an example some people consider a stock 14.8 mustang gt or rsx-s fast.
Just wanted to say, you throw I/H/E on an RSX-S and your running 13s. Thats an allmotor 2.0l thats faster than a 2.3l Turbocharged motor.

[WTF MATE]

Wheel hop-
An undesirable suspension characteristic in which a wheel (or several) moves up and down so violently that it actually leaves the ground. Wheel hop can be caused by many problems, including excessive unsprung weight, insufficient shock damping, or poor torsional axle control.

thats the noise, it was his first run so it wasnt heat on the clutch, it wasnt the diff its an lsd, its made for a beatin, and the tires arent sticky enough stock they will just spin, especially with 275+ ft/lbs spinnign them so its not too much traction, actually its not enough.
To me it sounded like poor driving, sorry fourthmeal.

[jdmls88]

To me it sounded like poor driving, sorry fourthmeal.

hence the wheel hop

[jdmls88]

Just wanted to say, you throw I/H/E on an RSX-S and your running 13s. Thats an allmotor 2.0l thats faster than a 2.3l Turbocharged motor.

i/h/e on the ms3 will put u much faster than that lol(boom08)

[hopupimports]

Just wanted to say, you throw I/H/E on an RSX-S and your running 13s. Thats an allmotor 2.0l thats faster than a 2.3l Turbocharged motor.
yep. vtec FTW

[WTF MATE]

i/h/e on the ms3 will put u much faster than that lol(boom08)
Umm yea that wasn't the point

[jdmls88]

but that was mine because u said the rsx would be faster, mod for mod i would disagree(even tho im a honda guy myself)

[clos561]

Just wanted to say, you throw I/H/E on an RSX-S and your running 13s. Thats an allmotor 2.0l thats faster than a 2.3l Turbocharged motor.
intake, headers, exhaust on ms3 = 9 sec car

[zoom-zoomhatch]

In the 1/8th, actually we wouldn't be using a "header" because we're turbo cars. And how much more does a type s cost over a just sport model ms3? When lots of mods show up for this car the money you save on buying an ms3 could be alot of power.

[fourthmeal]

Listen, and listen well, Alex (hopupimports), you know me, and I know you, in person. This means I don't intend to bullshit you or try to be an internet toughguy. I'm going to address some issues you've brought up on this and the other forum, and that will be the end of it. You can say whatever you want after that, and I'll not respond, so you can have the final word, if you want to.

Dude, I'm fucking smart. So don't try to put words in my mouth, or make up a situation to best suit you. I don't know what kind of rose-colored glasses you are looking through when you try to pull the shit you do while on the internet (both on this forum and your RSX one), but in real life, you don't say a word to me. Its as if you stay quiet at work to avoid the obvious "step up or shut up" comment that I'm liable to make. And honestly, thats probably for the best, because if you can't tell the truth or remember the past, you aren't worth the time it takes to say a word to. I don't lie, cheat, or steal. Now, that first one is important to you and I right now.

Here's what I mean by "I don't LIE"

You say I said my car will do 12.5. Now, use your brain here, why would I say that? If I just finished a conversation with Walter about how the car does 14 flat in Car and Driver magazine, what makes you think that I know how to drive a car 1.5 seconds better then their tester? No, I didn't say that. The only way that I can see you hearing that figure would be when the discussion turned to motorcycles and past cars. So, please, lets get it right. If I recall correctly, I believe I said that I expect to turn 14 flat or just under, 13.9 or so.

Now, I certainly didn't turn that number. And the reasons I provided were not means of excuses, they were my feelings on why it went the way it did. Since I was in the car, and I was the one that raced, I think I have a say on what I felt caused the results at hand. The car is capable of good times with practice and a little work on the trans mounts. End of discussion on this one.

We've debated recently over whether or not I've asked you to race. And the answer is yes, I've extended that invitation many times. Choosing to ignore it, or deny it is your business. But don't say i haven't. Again, it wasn't a "challenge" or a demand, the requests were to "see what they'll do", since we have the optimal road just behind the shop. Its worth mentioning here that a lot of time has passed since all this mockery, and in that time, Adam and his very quick Honda, and I, have raced that road. Both Adam and I will attest to the fact that our races were DEAD EVEN the entire run. The only way someone would get an edge on the other is if they started first. And thats how we did it so we'd have room . We'd both launch at reasonably the same time, and whoever had the nose ahead at the start ended it that way at the end. There was a particular moment where Adam's car got squirrelly after taking a slight bend in the road after calling it quits, and in fact his car kicked up a few huge rocks while sideways, which damaged my car somewhat. Its fair to say we won't do it again, nor would I recommend that road as a suitable racetrack for anybody I know. So, unless its a quick romp up to 80-90 on the backstretch, I won't be racing you there.

In fact, I won't really be racing you anywhere (unless it is strictly your idea and its safe enough), because I am done with the shop as of Saturday. So, you can bad-mouth me or make some silly comment about this issue as much as you like after that. Of course, Walter, Russell, Shadow, and virtually all the other service people know that I don't bullshit or lie, and so whatever number or figure you remember me saying, feel free to ask those who care to remember what the truth was. I think Walter, especially, will freely remind you of how the conversation went, it its important to you. Otherwise, I'm done on this issue.

If there is nothing further to discuss about it, then lets call it over.

[clos561]

In the 1/8th, actually we wouldn't be using a "header" because we're turbo cars. And how much more does a type s cost over a just sport model ms3? When lots of mods show up for this car the money you save on buying an ms3 could be alot of power.
yea but..leather, the headlights, the windshield wipers...its all pimpin and cheaper upgrading it through mazda then upgrading later....i got it because leather is a must in a car for me...after havin a cadi i cant turn back from leather.

[Mocoso]

intake, headers, exhaust on ms3 = 9 sec car
(rofl2) tell me you are joking right! this has to be the most light hearted post in this thread (which I cant believe is still alive)

Just to put it in perspective: A Buggati Veyron all wheel drive car with 1000 HP is a 10.2 second car - no way in hell intake, headers, exhaust are going to make you go from low 14's to 9!!! Even if they gave you 1000HP you have insufficient traction in the fwd setup to launch right....

this beats the pissing matches that have been going on of late Ill give ya that much....

Oh and on paper at least the 350Z and the MS3 are close on the 0-60, 0-100, and 1/4 mile times... didnt check the skidpad or slalom speeds

hehe Im starting to think you were talking about 1/8 mile runs and not 1/4 mile runs... in which case 9 "may" make sense and all I managed to do was amuse myself in my own confusion ..

[jdmls88]

im pretty sure he was joking about the 9 sec ms3 hahahahahah this isnt fast and furious

[fourthmeal]

It can't do it 9 nor can it do it in 12.5...

It would take a LOt of changes to get to 12.5, for sure. I'm thinking drag radials in front, heavy mount reinforcement, piggyback ecu or plug-in, downpipe, exhaust, and intake. And even then I'm thinking it would pull a 12.7-12.8 or so.

[neit_jnf]

Veyron
4162 lbs / 1001 hp = 4.16 lbs per hp
8L 4t 16cyl = 1001 hp
125 hp/L
62.5 hp/cyl
250.25 hp/turbo
$1,300,000 / 1001 hp = $1299 per hp

MS3
3157 lbs / 263 hp = 12.0 lbs per hp
2.3L 1t 4cyl = 263 hp
114 hp/L
65.75 hp/cyl
263 hp/turbo
$25,000 / 263 hp = $95 per hp

I really don't know why I'm posting this... maybe I'm bored.

[CTGrey02]

My head hurts from reading this.

[clos561]

(rofl2) tell me you are joking right! this has to be the most light hearted post in this thread (which I cant believe is still alive)

Just to put it in perspective: A Buggati Veyron all wheel drive car with 1000 HP is a 10.2 second car - no way in hell intake, headers, exhaust are going to make you go from low 14's to 9!!! Even if they gave you 1000HP you have insufficient traction in the fwd setup to launch right....

this beats the pissing matches that have been going on of late Ill give ya that much....

Oh and on paper at least the 350Z and the MS3 are close on the 0-60, 0-100, and 1/4 mile times... didnt check the skidpad or slalom speeds

hehe Im starting to think you were talking about 1/8 mile runs and not 1/4 mile runs... in which case 9 "may" make sense and all I managed to do was amuse myself in my own confusion ..
it was def a joke this can would PROBABLY hit high 12's with those mods....not sure because i dont have the mods yet....but the car will def be really fast with very few mods...

[Karma_hunden]

hopupimports. With the description provided by FourthMeal, it sounds like you are another quiet pussy that runs his 'mouth' as he types through the webs of the internet..if its true or not, i really dont give a shit, but you need to get a life and stop making a mockery out of yourself.

[fourthmeal]

its ok dude. just L.I.G. as snoop says. "Let it Go."

Let this thread die in peace, ...

[Karma_hunden]

my bad, i had a few days without lurking around here and forgot whatever happened to this situation and came to check only to see this dummy had made an account here and was bitchin. Had to put my 2 cents here before i let it drift.

no need to reply to this. just let this shit die; although i got to admit, this whole drama was mad funny (lol2)

[clos561]

i just farted

[neit_jnf]

I like Pie

[clos561]

pumpkin pie?

[Karma_hunden]

pumpkin pie?

Don,

(stfu)

[dj4monie]

HA! Some of the comments on your runs are classic and typical of Mazda owners in general (check my join date), you all aint that fast so you look for excuses and say things like "use it on a road course" or "I'll leave the 5K clutch drops to your SVO"

Mmmkay, bring your wallet and SVO to LACR and we'll see how fast she is.

Look eliminating WHEEL HOP is easy....

Use SLICK or Drag Radials!

That's what they are DESIGNED for. I never really understood trying to do it on pure street tires if your looking for excellent times at the track. In a pinch or on a budget, that's understandable. But if you say you can't afford EITHER when you bought a $24K car, then I think you need to talk to Suze Orman.

I have ran my SRT-4 on BFG G-Force Sports, Falken 615's, BFG Drag Radials (225/45-17) and this Weds, M&H 23x7.5x15 slicks.

I viturally eliminated wheel hop with motor mount inserts and drag radials...

If you really THOUGHT your STOCK MS3 would run 13's at LVMS (2100ft above sea level) then you really ARE out of touch with the performance of modern performance compacts.

VHT is a good thing, you brought the wrong tires to the party, just that simple and couldn't take advantage of it. I'd wish they lay down that much VHT at LACR!

Seriously though, if you plan on any freq trips to the "strip" then invest in some racing tires, like you would tear around The Streets of Willow with OEM tires (as much NOISE as they make...)

C'mon guys don't be shy, I haven't had another "compact" factory hot rod beat me yet (there's also a certain LT-1 Camaro and LS6 GTO owners scratching their heads). Apples to Apples im talking about FWD cars. I got something for EVO's and STi's already, just waiting to be installed.

I like Mazdas.... I would love to see more of you out there.

[CTGrey02]

Oh god, neon fanboiz are out. Dude, he just bought the car and wanted to see how it'd run on the 1/4 mile stock. I've seen plenty of those cute little neon's running their 14 second runs and coming back scratching there heads wondering where they're "mad tyght" 13 second runs were... one of em even had his rubber windshield gasket flapping around the the thrashing he gave it off the line (hint... he wheel hopped a lot too). You've got 4 years of time to modify your bucket, of course you'd have running it down by now. These guys just bought theirs. Next time I spank a neon like yours silly on the strip I'll think of you and smile

[dpeat]

It can't do it 9 nor can it do it in 12.5...

It would take a LOt of changes to get to 12.5, for sure. I'm thinking drag radials in front, heavy mount reinforcement, piggyback ecu or plug-in, downpipe, exhaust, and intake. And even then I'm thinking it would pull a 12.7-12.8 or so.

So, did you guys race yet?

[TheDutchGun]

intake, headers, exhaust on ms3 = 9 sec car

Ha! hope thats a joke.

[clos561]

Ha! hope thats a joke.
ehhh yea lol

[dj4monie]

Oh god, neon fanboiz are out. Dude, he just bought the car and wanted to see how it'd run on the 1/4 mile stock. I've seen plenty of those cute little neon's running their 14 second runs and coming back scratching there heads wondering where they're "mad tyght" 13 second runs were... one of em even had his rubber windshield gasket flapping around the the thrashing he gave it off the line (hint... he wheel hopped a lot too). You've got 4 years of time to modify your bucket, of course you'd have running it down by now. These guys just bought theirs. Next time I spank a neon like yours silly on the strip I'll think of you and smile

Ha! you got a PM....

[CTGrey02]

As do you. Fail to see the point though.