Custom Performance Engineering's complete SPEED6 tuning solution

[Igve2shtz]

Jordan,

Any news with the Plug and Play standback?

Where do I order and what is the final price?

[www.cp-e.com]

Jordan,

Any news with the Plug and Play standback?

Where do I order and what is the final price?


Hey there!

No news really, we're still just waiting for the connectors to come in. We don't yet have a final price on the PnP options because we haven't finished the tooling required to assemble the connectors. However, we expect the PnP option to run between $200-$400, and we're taking pre-orders from those who are sure that they want one. We're charging people 50% of the Standback cost up front (50% of $640 which is $320) and we'll charge the remaining 50% to your card, along with the PnP option price as soon as we ship the controller to you.

If you're okay with the $200-$400 range, then you can pre-order a PnP Standback by giving us a call here at the shop, 301-576-6142. You can speak with me, Jordan, or Josh Adams. Either one of us will be able to answer any questions you may have, aa well as take your order information.


Jordan

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

i think that even $200 additional for the PnP is a little steep, let alone $400! i mean i know its a great product, but it just doesn't seem right. i've been hearing $600 from the beginning, with a price increase for the next gen that will control the throttle plate.

now its $800-1000 bucks for this EMS thats PnP, but then i'm convinced there will be yet another price increase for when you find a solution to the throttle plate!

[Haltech]

i think that even $200 additional for the PnP is a little steep, let alone $400! i mean i know its a great product, but it just doesn't seem right. i've been hearing $600 from the beginning, with a price increase for the next gen that will control the throttle plate.

now its $800-1000 bucks for this EMS thats PnP, but then i'm convinced there will be yet another price increase for when you find a solution to the throttle plate!


I have a different opinion. Take the cost of sourcing the connectors.. From there, there is a pinout setup. I dont know if CPE is going to match each wire by exact color code on their harness, but none the less, consider the labor for wire assembly. Than, there is testing for the harness to ensure each pin out is getting the correct ohm and resistance.

$200-$400 isnt bad whatsoever to have something thats plug in play. Besides, this isnt a chip, its a computer setup for christ sake. If you cant pay to play, than voice your negativity elsewhere. People want the product, CPE is working on it and youre dogging them. Nothings cheap or for free.

And for your info.. the throttle plate issue is controlled via ECU just like the Fords... Companies like Superhcips Custom get the ECU code source from people within Ford, so their software makes it REAL easy to make changes to the throttle setting. CPE has an intercepter.. Theres a lot of reverse engineering thats involved to make those changes on the mazdas.. As time goes on, perhaps more updates will give us these parameter changes. If you can do a better job, by all means, man up and produce something. Otherwise, STFU and give respect where its do. CPE is doing a good job and i appreciate their efforts.

[Igve2shtz]

I feel like its the night before Christmas, but unfortunately there are still several more months to go.

I want this thing so bad. Keep up the hard work CP-E. If it makes you work any harder, Ill take you out for drinks the day the Standback PnP is released.

[MS3ICA]

dude i orederd the wire in system its the same thing its not a big deal

[forrestang]

Considering how much of a PITA it is to wire it in, I would charge someone $200 for labor, as it probably takes at least 2 hours to do.

[Igve2shtz]

dude i orederd the wire in system its the same thing its not a big deal

I understand its the same thing. I still dont care.

[VinnieBeachbum]

Just watch out for the time it takes to tune the MAF scaling. If you are running a different CAI than CP-E's then you are going to put alittle more time and money into your car.
If you live in the VB area I would help you. But it is alittle bit of a pain.

[LBV]

This scaling of the MAF thing is new ... did anyone else have to do this?

[Haltech]

Considering how much of a PITA it is to wire it in, I would charge someone $200 for labor, as it probably takes at least 2 hours to do.

Im going to be doing my MS3... got any tips? Pics of the install or anything?

[Haltech]

Just watch out for the time it takes to tune the MAF scaling. If you are running a different CAI than CP-E's then you are going to put alittle more time and money into your car.
If you live in the VB area I would help you. But it is alittle bit of a pain.


Yea, ive heard this as well. Thats why im going to go with the CPE CAI and sell off my MS CAI.

[07MS6]

Just watch out for the time it takes to tune the MAF scaling. If you are running a different CAI than CP-E's then you are going to put alittle more time and money into your car.
If you live in the VB area I would help you. But it is alittle bit of a pain.

Why is it so much more difficult for those of us with a different CAI?

[VinnieBeachbum]

because of the MAF housing. CPE engineered thiers to flow more air and still be within specs for the MAF

[MS3ICA]

right on vinnie i wish i would have bought cpe cia, hey bro i appreciate any maps and help you could advise in tuning im new to this.. waiting for my stanback to arrive

[Haltech]

right on vinnie i wish i would have bought cpe cia, hey bro i appreciate any maps and help you could advise in tuning im new to this.. waiting for my stanback to arrive

You could always sell yours and get the CPE.. Thats what im doing. Someone will buy it bro.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

And for your info.. the throttle plate issue is controlled via ECU just like the Fords...

If you can do a better job, by all means, man up and produce something. Otherwise, STFU and give respect where its do. CPE is doing a good job and i appreciate their efforts.

i was under the impression they still couldn't gain control of the throttle plate even with the ECM, cuz the plate would do a sort of 'flutter' or something at WOT.

and i wasn't dogging cpe's efforts, cuz they have made a great system. i was just saying i didn't like the price increases after months of them claiming to be hundreds of dollars cheaper than the xede. cuz now its going to be like the same price (rei)

[forrestang]

i was under the impression they still couldn't gain control of the throttle plate even with the ECM, cuz the plate would do a sort of 'flutter' or something at WOT.

and i wasn't dogging cpe's efforts, cuz they have made a great system. i was just saying i didn't like the price increases after months of them claiming to be hundreds of dollars cheaper than the xede. cuz now its going to be like the same price (rei)

Depends on how you want it. You can still probably order a beta like I have for like $630.

If you want the beauty of PNP, yeah you're gonna have to pay for it. Or drop your car off at my house, and I'll do it for the extra $200-300 cpe would charge you.(bump)

[07MS6]

because of the MAF housing. CPE engineered thiers to flow more air and still be within specs for the MAF

Sounds more like they just want you to buy theirs so they make more $ so they did it this way.

*waits for flames* (laugh)

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

lol no doubt you will see flames, don't post anything even partially against cp-e (or anything that could be taken the wrong way, and turned around on you)...they are proud consumers/dreamers.

and thanks for the offer forest ;) haha, i'll probably end up getting the wire-in for real though..cuz its a nice price for a standback IMO. i just wanted to be able to unplug it...in fact i bet i could wire my own harness up!! wow thats a great idea..then i could unplug it whenever i wanted. cuz i'm not worried about warranty..since a mazda warranty doesn't mean sh*t most the time, and i'm nearly over the mileage anyways.

[www.cp-e.com]

Sounds more like they just want you to buy theirs so they make more $ so they did it this way.

*waits for flames* (laugh)


Well, no flames from me! I just wanted to post a link that explains why we make our intakes the way we do:

http://tinyurl.com/ys55gb

We've had a lot of questions about our MAF housing design, so I discussed this issue with a member from another Mazda forum. The link I posted is in regards to the SPEED3, but most of the information still applies to the SPEED6. If you have any questions that aren't answered in this thread, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to go into more detail.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

thanks thats a good post..informative ;), i kinda wish it had numbers on the fujita too not just the MS intake. just cuz i'm curious what the fuel trim would be at idle compared to the numbers on a stock intake and your intake.

[forrestang]

Well, no flames from me! I just wanted to post a link that explains why we make our intakes the way we do:

http://tinyurl.com/ys55gb

We've had a lot of questions about our MAF housing design, so I discussed this issue with a member from another Mazda forum. The link I posted is in regards to the SPEED3, but most of the information still applies to the SPEED6. If you have any questions that aren't answered in this thread, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to go into more detail.

I've been preaching about what CAIs do anc can do to this car for just shy of a year now in regaurds to fuel trims.....but many call me crazy.

I've said that an improperly designed CAI would more likely throw off fuel trims before an upgraded turbo will......but I'm insane?

Just ranting, is the Speed6 inake equipped with the straightner like the 3?


-----EDIT-------
Here's a post I made about 5 months ago....I know I said it waaaay before that too! :)
http://forum.mazdaSIXclub.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=72370&view=findpost&p=980647

NOTE:replace 'SIX' with '6' to see it. ;)

[www.cp-e.com]

thanks thats a good post..informative ;), i kinda wish it had numbers on the fujita too not just the MS intake. just cuz i'm curious what the fuel trim would be at idle compared to the numbers on a stock intake and your intake.


Thanks a lot (headbang)

Actually we'd like to see some numbers on the Fujita too! If we can get our hands on one we'll absolutely record some numbers.

If I remember correctly, I think the Fujita had a slightly smaller MAF housing as compared to the MS CAI. Since the inside diameter is arguably the most important factor when designing a MAF housing, this would imply to me that the resulting fuel trims may be slightly better than the MS CAI. But, bends before the sensor affect the reading, as do any weird transitions or protrusions before the sensor.



I've been preaching about what CAIs do anc can do to this car for just shy of a year now in regaurds to fuel trims.....but many call me crazy.

I've said that an improperly designed CAI would more likely throw off fuel trims before an upgraded turbo will......but I'm insane?

Just ranting, is the Speed6 inake equipped with the straightner like the 3?


-----EDIT-------
Here's a post I made about 5 months ago....I know I said it waaaay before that too! :)
http://forum.mazdaSIXclub.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=72370&view=findpost&p=980647

NOTE:replace 'SIX' with '6' to see it. ;)


Forrest, I feel your pain brother. Even though that particular person in the thread you posted didn't get a fuel cut from his CAI, I still think you're right-on. I've been discussing this issue with customers (and even non-customers!) for months now, and I think people are finally starting to believe that we're not making this stuff up, lol.

Way back when, you could afford to skimp on the MAF housings because the ECU's weren't as sensitive as they are these days. I can't even begin to tell you how many calls we get that start out with, "I have brand "X" CAI and I have a fuel cut, what do you suggest that I do?"

In fact, I blame part of the problem on us. We try very hard to publish as much technical information about the SPEED6 as possible, but our website is sorely lacking. So when we go and rattle on about fuel trims, as we are here, we have no data to back up what we're saying! So, we have a host of updates in store for the site, many of which are articles that we've written about the many quirks that these cars exhibit. I wrote one article, not dissimilar to the thread that I linked above, and that will be up on our website shortly. We figure that people can argue opinion, but they can't argue hard data. So we're going to do a lot of testing to show people why we make our products the way we do. That way people won't have to rely just on our good word.

And to answer your question, no, the SPEED6 intake does not feature an airflow straightener. The airflow straightener does an excellent job at literally straighteneing out flow, which is really only necessary after a bend (from what we've found). Since the SPEED6 intake only has straight pipe before the sensor, it wasn't required. Our SPEED3 intake was our first intake that featured the MAF after a bend, and we weren't too thrilled about that when we started that project. I think our design was first to market, and we were really anxious to see what our competitors came up with considering the technical challenges. We were surprised to see that no one else chose to include an airflow straightener. Well, Cobb has, but their intake isn't out quite yet.

[07MS6]

Maybe CP-E could offer a discount to folks on their CAI that buy the plug & play unit when it comes out. ;)

[Dragon Queen]

QUOTE=07MS6;3342406]Maybe CP-E could offer a discount to folks on their CAI that buy the plug & play unit when it comes out. ;)[/QUOTE]

no...they aren't going to do that(yupnope)

[07MS6]

QUOTE=07MS6;3342406]Maybe CP-E could offer a discount to folks on their CAI that buy the plug & play unit when it comes out. ;)

no...they aren't going to do that(yupnope)[/QUOTE]

I didn't think so. :rolleyes:

[Hate]

Maybe CP-E could offer a discount to folks on their CAI that buy the plug & play unit when it comes out. ;)

Or maybe a discount on the PNP for those that already have their CAI... (thumb)
I can dream!

[aTriz]

Any updates on them connectors, Knowing my luck the ship was sunk during the shipping process so now I'm going to sink myself :) j/k <3 cp-e

[MS6mike]

if you cant wait then buy it the way it is now! i have it works great!

[MS3ICA]

im waiting on mine , i have an ms3 , can't wait .... how is it before you get it dyno tuned and how is the install thanks for any feed back ms6mike

[MS6mike]

im waiting on mine , i have an ms3 , can't wait .... how is it before you get it dyno tuned and how is the install thanks for any feed back ms6mike

3 hours install! easy and the car feals better than stock with the ems plus you gain boost to redline!

[Blk_on_Blk_MS6]

These cars are fast enough as it is. You guys should have bough EVOs and STis if you want to get a lot of power out of mods.

I had an EVO and it was pushing 380whp and 410wtq at 26psi on stock turbo and IC with only about 3grand in mods.

Whatever you guys do, don't go for high numbers just to achieve a high number. Like Jordan said, you have to look into the safety of your motor as well.

[Igve2shtz]

don't go for high numbers just to achieve a high number

Thats right. Just go to 'lots of area under the curve'!!!!

Just kidding. But, a little bit more power never hurt anyone.

[MS6mike]

These cars are fast enough as it is. You guys should have bough EVOs and STis if you want to get a lot of power out of mods.

I had an EVO and it was pushing 380whp and 410wtq at 26psi on stock turbo and IC with only about 3grand in mods.

Whatever you guys do, don't go for high numbers just to achieve a high number. Like Jordan said, you have to look into the safety of your motor as well.


men, some people wanted a luxury as well as speed! its just to fun to beat on a evo or sti! and still have a nice intirior! (drive2)

[jcgemt2003]

men, some people wanted a luxury as well as speed! its just to fun to beat on a evo or sti! and still have a nice intirior! (drive2)

+1

[Hate]

men, some people wanted a luxury as well as speed! its just to fun to beat on a evo or sti! and still have a nice intirior! (drive2)

If my interior is luxury, then I want my money back. It's not bad, but it's not luxury either.

[dadasracecar]

Saw a brand new RS4 (no shit, really) this morning. Old fat guy going 65. I can't spend the $70K to get one but I can sure mod the hell out of my speed6 and try to get there... Oh, and I don't have a warranty - not b/c I've been told by Mazda or anything but b/c I'm honest and take responsibility for my actions. Now that being said, if my windows stop working, I'll expect Mazda to fix it. The turbo seal problem is bit of a tweener. Yeah, I have a DP, cai, and FMIC and I'm running around at 17 psi but, the turbo is only pushing out 17 psi (not the 18.6 psi it does stock) and it's getting air easier and moving exhaust away from it easier. I can't see how the mods I've done would be detrimental to the turbo. The pistons, rings, rods, maybe. The turbo should be fine. If people with stock cars have smoke then that's evidence that the turbo has a problem. My friend's speed6 smoked the moment he drove off with his CPE catback. That was (and is) his only mod. IMO the turbo is faulty on some cars and should be replaced by Mazda for what is clearly a known issue, modded or not.

[Hate]

Saw a brand new RS4 (no shit, really) this morning. Old fat guy going 65. I can't spend the $70K to get one but I can sure mod the hell out of my speed6 and try to get there... Oh, and I don't have a warranty - not b/c I've been told by Mazda or anything but b/c I'm honest and take responsibility for my actions. Now that being said, if my windows stop working, I'll expect Mazda to fix it. The turbo seal problem is bit of a tweener. Yeah, I have a DP, cai, and FMIC and I'm running around at 17 psi but, the turbo is only pushing out 17 psi (not the 18.6 psi it does stock) and it's getting air easier and moving exhaust away from it easier. I can't see how the mods I've done would be detrimental to the turbo. The pistons, rings, rods, maybe. The turbo should be fine. If people with stock cars have smoke then that's evidence that the turbo has a problem. My friend's speed6 smoked the moment he drove off with his CPE catback. That was (and is) his only mod. IMO the turbo is faulty on some cars and should be replaced by Mazda for what is clearly a known issue, modded or not.

I haven't seen anyone with smoke that also is completely stock yet.

[dadasracecar]

I have.

[Templar]

I already have the cash sitting on my desk now, my GF lent it to me hehe as I'm broke after having to fix the turbo, had the smoking issue. I'm going to buy this new PnP EMS the day it comes out.
CP-E Please don't make me wait too long and I think 700 is not a bad price.

Simon

[chriscecc914]

im giving them about a month and a half for PNP release or im buying the xcede

[dadasracecar]

the xede is not PnP.

[mdogg]

I already have the cash sitting on my desk now, my GF lent it to me hehe as I'm broke after having to fix the turbo, had the smoking issue. I'm going to buy this new PnP EMS the day it comes out.
CP-E Please don't make me wait too long and I think 700 is not a bad price.

Simon
I don't think they have released the final pricing for the PnP tuner, but I wouldn't expect it to be $700.....

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

I don't think they have released the final pricing for the PnP tuner, but I wouldn't expect it to be $700.....

sorry try $900-$1000 for pnp (flame2)

[funkyman]

(yippy)


http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123670326


Jordan

Hi there will you offer a possible Garret GT30R turbo upgrade kit in conjunction with your ECU piggyback for the MS3 and since there are alot of different types of modifications like RP,DP,CAI and 93 octane fuel,what could we expect as far as the preprogrammed/dialed piggy backs are concerned.Here in South Florida 93 Octane is widely available and thats what i use for my MS3.Thanx

[funkyman]

I came across an interesting comparison product or a route that you might want to take or consider since it was a major challenge and issue tuning it.Here some info on the HPF E46 M3 EMS that is a fully pnp stand alone that works in conjusnction with the original ECU.ENginer from AEM helped them crack the stock Siemens ECU and mapped it for them anyway here is some info.Now a system like this on
the Speed3 would be wonderfull with 93 Octane fuel.'


Take one look at the engine management pictures and you'll see that this is no ordinary Horsepower System. Designing and creating an engine management system to run the S54 engine was not a simple task and required a joint development effort between HorsepowerFreaks and AEM. In fact two AEM engineers relocated from California and now work for HorsepowerFreaks in Portland, Oregon. They are both primarily responsible for designing most of the components for these amazing Horsepower kits. The electronics included with every kit are completely plug-n-play and even come affixed to mounting brackets to safely secure them to your M3. To ensure each install goes without incident, every wire is labeled, every connector uses heat shrink wrap, every wire is wire-loomed, in several places shielded wire is used, ring terminals are already attached and labeled, and fuses are affixed to the bracket and pre-wired. The fuel pump and oil (http://www.e46fanatics.com/features/feature.php?news_id=83#) pump relays are also attached to the bracket and pre-wired, the high end AEM 3.5 bar map sensors for the boost gauge and EMS are affixed to the bracket and pre-wired and the exact BMW connectors for plug-n-play operation are attached, loomed and pre-wired. Even the race fuel switch is pre-wired with a connector, the intake air temp sensor is pre-wired and labeled and simply screws into their intake manifold which is also labeled, the boost control solenoid is also pre-wired and labeled, and the fuel pump trigger is pre-wired that turns the extra fuel pump on at 3psi. Wow, with nearly everything all pre-wired, this installation is sure to be a breeze

We developed our own plug-n-play M3 engine management system that works in conjunction with the stock DME in a seamless environment. Unlike some other E46 M3 boosted applications where the throttle cable is removed or dash functionality has been compromised, our system allows every original component to still work and function as designed. Our kit completely eliminates the need for the power robbing MAF sensor and allows significantly more air flow into the engine. Our electronics also provide precise advance/retard control of both cams (dual vanos) based on both rpm and boost allowing greater power gains during forced induction. Precise timing and fuel control is calibrated based on any number of factors including the environment, altitude, gear selection, boost, road conditions, etc. Our engine management also provides optimal control of our 750cc high impedance injectors and is able to utilize the stock coil packs and spark plugs without requiring an auxilary ignition system.

Our kit is completely plug n play from the electronics to the entire turbo kit itself. Every kit comes with all of the electronics pre-assembled. The main black bracket simply bolts in with 4 supplied bolts to pre-existing holes in the engine bay on the passenger side near the front windshield. The rest of the connectors and components simply plug right in. Every wire is labelled, every connector has heat shrink wrap, every wire is wire-loomed, in several places shielded wire is used, ring terminals are already attached and labeled, fuses are affixed to the bracket and pre-wired, the fuel pump and oil pump relays are attached to the bracket and pre-wired, the high end AEM 3.5 bar map sensors for the boost gauge and EMS are affixed to the bracket and pre-wired, the exact BMW connector is attached, loomed and pre-wired, the race fuel switch is pre-wired with a connector, the intake air temp sensor is pre-wired and labeled and simply screws into our intake manifold which is also labeled, the boost control solenoid is also pre-wired and labeled, and the fuel pump trigger is pre-wired that turns the extra fuel pump on at 3psi. The EMS comes programmed for the car, and is already calibrated for every sensor used and the rest of the turbo system

[InlineTwin]

How does this apply to an MS6 or MS3?

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

rofl
isn't that kit to tune and boost a non boosted car? all we need is the ECU..with as little wires and simple as possible

[redspeed]

subscribing for more info.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

(first)

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/535/644/176830.jpg

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/535/644/176831.jpg

Yup, we got the SPEED6 samples in last week and now we're waiting on our full lot (about 1000 PnP sets!). We should be getting the full order in a couple months. We're already taking pre-orders for the PnP Standback for the SPEED6, so if anyone is interested give us a call and we'll add your name and info to the list!


Jordan
posted 06/27/2007

.
.
.
.
couple months (dark)

updates?

[Igve2shtz]

posted 06/27/2007

.
.
.
.
couple months (dark)

updates?

Go to their website and read the "Latest news" section. They seem to be updating this quite often now. And sign up for the monthly E-mail news letter.

For now, it appears they hit a setback with the PnP harness, and the V2.0 Standback. More info to come from them.

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

thanks! i haven't been on there site for a while cuz it was WEAK lol, i'll check it out though.

[bova80]

called them the other day and they said it will be about 3 weeks. the boards are getting urethaned.

[funkytuqe]

Any comments as to the CPE standback's effect on gas millage on a 15 PSI setup compared to stock? I know this is a bit of a loaded question as fuel consumption is subject to driving style, mods and whatnot. But lets say compare a STOCK MS6 VS MS6 with the CPE system (only) running set to 15psi. I would assume if it is a better tune (than stock), that millage would be slightly better with the standback installed? Comments??

[bova80]

yeah no one buys the standback to try and get better gas mileage.

[ssinstaller]

Any comments as to the CPE standback's effect on gas millage on a 15 PSI setup compared to stock? I know this is a bit of a loaded question as fuel consumption is subject to driving style, mods and whatnot. But lets say compare a STOCK MS6 VS MS6 with the CPE system (only) running set to 15psi. I would assume if it is a better tune (than stock), that millage would be slightly better with the standback installed? Comments??

I doubt it, boost comes on much faster with the standback, so you'll be in boost much more often..

[Igve2shtz]

Any comments as to the CPE standback's effect on gas millage on a 15 PSI setup compared to stock? I know this is a bit of a loaded question as fuel consumption is subject to driving style, mods and whatnot. But lets say compare a STOCK MS6 VS MS6 with the CPE system (only) running set to 15psi. I would assume if it is a better tune (than stock), that millage would be slightly better with the standback installed? Comments??

There is no tune built into the standback, IE, there are no timingn or fueling changes on the stock maps unless you alter the map personally. It does cause the boost to come on alot quicker, thus you will prob lose gas mileage due to this.

However, the Guys from CP-E have posted around here somewhere, that the Standback does lean out the mixture a bit (not intentionally, just the way it operates), so my guess is that if you were cruising at 75 mph for say 300 miles and not encountering any boost, then gas mileage should go up slightly.

If you want to improve gas mileage, get the standback, lower the boost, lower the PID coefficients to allow slower buildup of boost, and lean out the mixture a bit - this all should only be done by a professional, as leaning out the mixture too much will damage the engine

[RevLimitLaunch]

so cpe has finally release pnp to us, i think i'm going to purchase it asap. anyone else purchase the pnp harness yet?

[LBV]

I installed my PnP over the past weekend. The PnP unit is not small and I had to squeeze it in where the ECU is amongst all of the wiring.

Even though there's no tune on it, CP-E has done something to get the turbo spooling sooner. I'm talking in normal driving here. I noticed right off the bat that my boost gauge needle was reading higher (ie. more positive) so the turbo's spooling in areas of my driving it never did before (or atleast more so). As a result, yes your fuel mileage will start to suck. The positive is you'll get better pick-up down low with the boost happening.

[RevLimitLaunch]

so other than it's relative size, it went together perfect and i'm sure lol within minutes. damn, i keep thinking, dp and tmic, or pnp ems lol.

[LBV]

Ya, the install wasn't bad at all. Just recommend you number the connectors before unhooking from the ECU with a marker (1L,2,3,4R).

Instead of the dp & tmic you should think about the exhaust manifold ... although if you're doing the mani, might as well do the dp as it'll be way easier to take out with the mani off.

[davecoyne]

That was the one area I felt the CP-E directions were not clear in as far as the ordering of the connectors. I studied the install pics on that other site whose name shall never be mentioned very carefully.
For me the hardest part was getting the damn connectors out of the stock ECU. The removal really taxes your fingers. I also had to screw with the factory uprgraded shock sensor being in the way.

Overall, I am on the base 15 psi tune. My mileage per tank has dropped. I believe it has to do with the fact I am in the boost a lot more often.

The other issue I am having is hitting the boost cut very easily. I've adjusted some parameters on the tune as was suggested by CP-E and others at the site whose name shall nigh be mentioned here and that helped a little bit. I think I need to perform the CP-E cold weather fix to really put that matter to bed.

Overall, the CP-E has definitely made the car fun again.

Mods: CP-E CAI, magnaflow exhaust, HKS SSQV bov and ETS 3.5" TMIC.

[LBV]

I'm thinking of messing with the V2's ability to set up boost based on the RPM & TPS table so it doesn't go full spool at a low rpm, hi load situation.

[bova80]

installed my standback with PNP the other day and wow this thing is awesome. i have a zero'd out map and set to 16psi. haven't hit boost cut at all and temps have been in the 30s and lower. mine didn't come with any instructions on installation but its pretty simple, i used a flat head to get the connectors out of the ecu which took about 5min. its not hard to remember what goes where cause if you look at the connector it only really fits in one spot and the fact the one is grey helps.

as for the pnp itself, its pretty big so tyring to do all this while holding up that thing (weighs like 5lbs) takes a toll on your arm and tires you out while laying on your back in a tight space. but got it all done and managed to zip tie it up in there.

[masskaos]

mine is on order... waiting to be delivered... life will be good again

[RevLimitLaunch]

i just got my standback, the top right when the standback programmer is opened says 'beta version 1.06'...good guess that it's not the v2 programmer?

[1BADSRT]

jordan, didn't want to read through all the posts, but did you find a way to get rid of the fuel cut? and i spoke with you a while ago and you said there was a feature called boost clip. more info please. thanks.

[funkyman]

MODS: Sponsorhip fee has been paid via paypal 1/24/07 @ 11:56am


Custom Performance Engineering has been anxiously awaiting sponsorship status on Mazdas247 for some time now. We've had a lot of great successes in the past few months and we wanted to share some of our latest developments with the community.

We are currently completing the development of our full tuning solution for the SPEED6. Our unit is a piggyback air/fuel, timing and boost controller with datalogging capabilities. The MSRP for a non-PnP unit is $600, or $635 with two pre-loaded base maps. It should be available for pre-order in the next couple weeks.

We recently wanted to demonstrate the capabilities of our piggyback, so we installed it onto a SPEED6 with a turbo-back exhaust and cold air inatake. We also wanted to see what we could learn about the factory ECU. Here is what we found...



Throttle Position and Boost Pressure

We decided to put the piggyback on Seoulful’s (Brian’s) SPEED6 so we could get a better idea of what the car is doing with timing, the throttle plate, the wastegate, and so on. Brian’s SPEED6 had a turbo-back and an intake installed at the time of testing.

What’s interesting is that the SPEED6’s throttle plate does a similar dance as the SPEED3’s at wide open throttle. The difference is that the SPEED6’s ECU doesn’t create any appreciable performance limitations like the SPEED3’s ECU does. The SPEED3 uses the throttle plate as a power output governor, which was likely implemented to reduce the amount of torque steer and wheel spin in the lower gears. Since the SPEED6 doesn’t have the same traction or torque steer issues, it isn’t clear what the purpose of the throttle plate actuation is during wide-open throttle. Theory dictates that in order get the most out of an engine, the volumetric efficiency should be as high as possible to reduce pumping losses. The fact that the SPEED6 tapers its throttle opening towards redline and reduces boost to some degree goes against convention, and likely has another purpose. The good news however, is that the throttle plate in the SPEED6 doesn’t seem to limit peak boost like it does in the SPEED3. Here is a chart of the boost pressure versus the throttle position at WOT. Take note of the peak voltage of the throttle sensor, and the boost pressure (we dialed it in for 15psi in this case)

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/535/644/136933.jpg

Notice how the throttle plate is NEVER wide open (wide open would indicate about 4.7-volts). Not even close. Also, as the rpm’s begin to climb, so does the throttle position. One may argue that this slow increase in the throttle position is to increase intake air velocity as rpm’s climb, a la the manifold runner control, but notice that the turbo is already at full bore pushing 15psi. At about 5500rpm the fun begins to end and the throttle starts shutting things down.

What’s interesting in this next chart is that we dialed in 19psi of boost to see how the car reacted. Is the turbo capable of holding 19psi to redline? How is the throttle plate going to affect this?

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/535/644/136934.jpg

Again, take notice of the throttle position. You can see how it ramps up quickly between 2300-2700rpm, and then the slope is decreased as soon as peak boost is achieved. This implies that the throttle control is somehow tied to the boost pressure. We also quickly realized that the turbo was not capable of holding 19psi to redline, so we stopped the run short to avoid over spinning the turbo. It isn’t clear from the chart, but the turbo maintained 19psi until about 4000rpm and then started to taper off down to 17psi. We know we ran out of turbo (as opposed to the throttle limiting boost) since the throttle angle is still increasing. Also, notice how the throttle angle is MUCH higher than the angle during the 15psi run in the first chart.

PID Boost Control

Our piggyback differs from some of the other engine management systems in the way it controls boost, or more specifically the wastegate solenoid. The wastegate is controlled by a solenoid which is tied to the ECU. The ECU commands the solenoid to open or close the wastegate depending upon how much boost is requested. Other tuners seem to use a boost coefficient to control boost, which can get tricky. Our boost controller uses a PID (proportional-integral-derivative) feedback loop to monitor and control the boost pressure. This is significant because instead of using some factor with no feedback to control boost, you can demand a certain value, say, 16psi and the feedback loop will control the wastegate solenoid until the map sensor sees 16psi. It really is an incredibly sophisticated system, and I’ll briefly explain how PID control works. Alternatively, you can search Wikipedia for a great explanation as well.

A PID feedback loop uses calculus to control a process without human intervention. In other words, using a setpoint value, the PID control calculates how far some value is from the desired setpoint, and even tries to ‘guess’ at the next value in the process.

The proportion part of the loop calculates the error from the setpoint in percent. For example, if the setpoint is a value of ten, and the current value is 8, then the proportional error is 20%. This helps give the feedback loop some idea of how far off from the setpoint it is.

The integral part of the loop provides an indication of past error. In other words, it finds the integral of the proportional error and sums this error up over time. This also helps indicate if the error is above or below the setpoint value.

Finally, the derivative part of the feedback loop tries to determine where the process is headed. For example, if you look at one of the boost charts above, you can see the slope of the curve is very high to begin with, but once the ECU finds its desired boost setpoint, the slope goes to zero. If the slope is zero, then the boost pressure isn’t climbing. If the slope is negative, then the boost is dropping. By incorporating this into the control loop, the system has some idea of the direction of the process it’s controlling.

A graph of the control loop is shown below. You can see how each aspect of the PID control reacts to Lou setting the boost level to 15psi.

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/535/644/136935.jpg

If the PID control was ideal, then the P portion of the controller would go to zero immediately. This would indicate that there is no error, and you’ve hit your setpoint exactly. The integral term should be a flat line once it reaches the desired setpoint. Any slope to the integral line indicates that error is being generated. Finally, the derivative term indicates the direction of the process. Since we want to keep the boost at a certain value, the PID control loop constantly overshoots and undershoots the desired boost point. This is normal, but the amplitude of the oscillation gives an indication as to how much control the PID feedback loop has over the process. The lower the oscillation, the better the PID control.

The best part of all of this is that you can fine-tune how much weight each term (proportion, integral and derivative) have on the process control by changing the PID coefficients. We provide a PID coefficient to start with, but you can control the PID coefficients if you’d like to get a better control over boost for your particular setup. But how good did the feedback loop control the boost in this particular case?

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/535/644/136940.jpg

This is a chart with the wastegate position versus the boost pressure, and was set for 15psi. You can see that the wastegate is always being tweaked to try to find the setpoint value. Interestingly, the wastegate is never fully opened OR closed! Even at idle, the wastegate is open to some degree. And the wastegate is never fully open to the 255 value because you can create secondary magnetic fields in the solenoid which can inadvertently keep the wastegate open permanently. But, you can see that the boost control is pretty darn good with our recommended PID coefficients.

Hopefully this explains why we didn’t just use a straightforward boost coefficient with no feedback loop to control the boost.

Mass Airflow Sensor

Many people have speculated that the mass air sensor maxing out at 5-volts is responsible for the fuel cut. We wanted to see if we could induce a fuel cut to investigate further and were unable to produce one even at 19psi. Here is a chart with the boost pressure relative to the mass air sensor voltage.

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/535/644/136937.jpg

Keep in mind that peak air/fuel consumption does not occur at peak horsepower or towards redline. The most air will be ingested at the torque peak. So, this chart shows both the incline and decline of the mass air sensor voltage (the voltage decline is more difficult to see on this chart) indicating that peak torque has already been reached. Also worth noting is that the peak sensor voltage occurred at 5267rpm and was 4.29-volts, which is well below the 5-volt maximum. Not surpringly, we did not experience any fuel cut.

Next week we visit the dyno with the wideband and we’ll also get some data on the fuel injector duty cycle to see if we can get some indication as to how much fuel this thing can flow. Lou is also determined to gain control over the throttle plate. Because his piggyback is so versatile, he can incorporate a process that will help the throttle plate mimic the users throttle input better. This is a tricky challenge, but look for throttle control on the SPEED3/6 in the near future.



Since we're now official sponsors, feel free to post up questions or comments, or you can PM us under our www.cp-e.com (http://www.cp-e.com) handle.

Jordan


Is the MS3 tuning solution near completion by any chance or at least ,in the near foreseeable future.

[GioDiGreek]

Question for the CP-E. After the dealer flashed my ECU with the new version my car loss power or better say it doesn't pull as before flashing. Will the PnP bring the life back to my car when using the standard tune from the PnP or no? My SPEED6 has no mods on. STOCK with K&N drop in filter. Thank you :)

[jcgemt2003]

Question for the CP-E. After the dealer flashed my ECU with the new version my car loss power or better say it doesn't pull as before flashing. Will the PnP bring the life back to my car when using the standard tune from the PnP or no? My SPEED6 has no mods on. STOCK with K&N drop in filter. Thank you :)

Anyone feel free to correct me if Im wrong but Im pretty sure that the standbadck comes with a base map that will increase performance. One of the great things about the standback is that if you do not like the tune that comes with the system you can easily get "another map" from a fellow board member! There are various maps out there for stock and modded speeds as well as the ability to take your vehicle and have it tuned to your liking. (headbang)

[6mpssa]

a few questions for you??
which pid algorithm are you using??
what is your setpoint, feedback and output.
would a cascade controller not work better than a straight pid loop.
Im a control engineer and will help if i can
cheers

[Olestra]

a few questions for you??
which pid algorithm are you using??
what is your setpoint, feedback and output.
would a cascade controller not work better than a straight pid loop.
Im a control engineer and will help if i can
cheers

I kind of doubt they'd give that answer out publicly.