wow! a BAD Mazdaspeed3 Review!!

[neit_jnf]

They give it 2 out of 5 stars. Their main complaint: too much torque for a FWD...

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12929-2522525,00.html



Mazda3 MPS

A classic abuse of power

Would you be so silly as to buy a car without driving it? If you looked at the specification of the new Mazda3 MPS, you just might. On paper it doesn’t matter whether you compare it with the VW Golf GTI, Vauxhall Astra VXR, Ford Focus ST-2 or Mégane RenaultSport 225; it beats them all for power, acceleration and speed. Unlike the Ford and VW it doesn’t cost extra for five doors and, at £18,995, it is the cheapest, too. Case closed, then.
Er, not quite. Rarely can such raw data give more than a guide to a car’s abilities — indeed they often serve to obscure more important qualities such as ride, handling and enjoyment. Such is the case here.
Admittedly this is the fastest of the Golf-class fast hatches. Powered by a turbocharged 2.3 litre four-cylinder motor it attempts to direct 256bhp to the road through the front wheels.
Now I’m going to mention torque, and before your eyes glaze over and you remind me this is not Autocar, it is important. When you accelerate it is torque, not power, that you feel. And the problem with torque when it’s directed through the front wheels is that it tends to have undesirable effects on the steering.
Most manufacturers shy away from creating front-drive cars with much more than 200 lb ft of torque. Take the VW Golf: in GTI form it has 207 lb ft of torque and front-wheel drive, but when you upgrade to the R32 model with 236 lb ft of torque, VW uprates the car to four-wheel drive, so the maximum torque each wheel needs to handle is in effect halved. The Mazda3 MPS has 280 lb ft of torque, every last bit of which has to go through the front wheels.
It’s too much. For while this is a stunningly fast car (it’s 0-62mph time of 6.1sec may sound quick but it would be at least 0.5sec quicker if it were rear or four-wheel drive), it is not a particularly fun car. And this is why: the only reason for buying a car like this is to make the most of its performance, but it won’t let you.
Put your foot down and as the acceleration builds so does the side-to-side tugging at the steering. If you persevere and if the road is at all damp (as it was during my week with the car), the front wheels will soon lose traction in first, second and occasionally even third gear, despite the fitment of a limited slip differential designed to stop precisely that. Press on further and the traction control will simply cut the power. And this is when you’re travelling in a straight line.
In an attempt to try to string a few wet corners together I turned the traction control off, but this made things worse. If you push it hard, as its styling and engine power invite, it requires more effort than a modern family hatch should to keep it pointing in the desired direction.
The shame is that I can see how tantalisingly close to being a decent car the Mazda3 comes. It looks good, steers nicely until you put your foot down and even offers reasonable accommodation.
It’s well equipped, with standard climate control, cruise control, part leather sports seats and electric everything. There’s a slick six-speed gearbox and excellent brakes. Even the engine can hardly be blamed: it sounds purposeful and has minimal turbo lag for such a high output.
No, the only thing that went wrong was when the engineers decided it was okay to up the power and leave everything else the same. It wasn’t, and the result undermines the car.
If Mazda had kept the engine as it is, provided all-wheel drive and put two grand on the price, or if it left the car alone but dropped power and torque by 20% and lopped two grand off the price, either result would have been better. What is most puzzling is not simply how the same people who make driver’s cars as good as the MX-5 and RX-8 could get this so wrong, but the fact that this engine can also be found in the Mazda6 MPS, a fine and underrated machine. Why does it succeed where the Mazda3 fails? Three little words: four-wheel drive. If it had it, I suspect the Mazda3 MPS would be a winner; without it, it is at best a flawed also-ran.

Model Mazda3 MPS
Engine type 2261cc, four cylinders
Power/Torque 256bhp @ 5500rpm / 280 lb ft @ 3000rpm
Transmission Six-speed manual
Fuel/CO2 29.1mpg (combined) / 231g/km
Performance 0-62mph: 6.1sec / Top speed: 155mph
Price £18,995
Verdict Nice idea, shame about the execution
Rating Two stars (out of five)

[shane02pro5]

I wonder what tires were on it? Test driving a tubo'ed vehicle for a week in the rain would not result in a very accurate review especially without the good rubber.

[Mocoso]

A whole lot of griping for some torque steer... and the handling in wet pavement.. oh come on please ANY AND ALL 2WD drive cars with butt loads of power will handle like crap on wet pavement - front OR rear wheel drive... this is the guy who probably thinks the Corvette C6 is an also ran because it too will lose its rear end on wet weather if pushed hard....

While Im not a blind diehard fan that will piss off any bad review I think this guy blew the torque steer way out of proportion... an if you drop the price by 3 grand you are in normal 3 territory and if you up it by 3 grand you will get eaten by the sharks called subi and evo

[Vermilion]

This review means nothing when the author of it says the RX-8 is a good drivers car. (shocked) (yupnope)

[Hikaru9]

This wouldn't be the first bad review. A couple of others (such as Top Gear), also from UK, gave the MS3 not so stellar ratings. ^_^;;


While Im not a blind diehard fan that will piss off any bad review I think this guy blew the torque steer way out of proportion... an if you drop the price by 3 grand you are in normal 3 territory and if you up it by 3 grand you will get eaten by the sharks called subi and evo

I agree with Mocoso on this one. I've driven FWD cars all my life, and I don't feel any major torque steer in the MS3 as much as my other cars (such as the RSX).

[dread]

the torque steer isn't that bad, and I think its fun, I think mazda did a wonderful job controlling it. Of course awd would be better, but it would cost more. Lets also remember that there are a lot more hot hatches in europe to compare the ms3 with, I wish we had all those choices. Most bad reviews have come from overseas.

[nvmsp]

who complains about too much power??

[Mocoso]

This wouldn't be the first bad review. A couple of others (such as Top Gear), also from UK, gave the MS3 not so stellar ratings. ^_^;;

Top Gear doesnt count... that show is just a comedy hour... guy will bitch and moan about anything not made in Europe....(peep)

[Donas64]

BAH! That writers probably got spaghetti arms!

TORQUE STEER SEPARATES THE MEN FROM THE BOYS.......:)

[Donas64]

who complains about too much power??

My Grandmother. She also complains that the Cinema is too loud and about by hippety hop muzak!

[Donas64]

Top Gear doesnt count... that show is just a comedy hour... guy will bitch and moan about anything not made in Europe....(peep)

Agreed. Fun to watch, useless reviews


I mean an NSX beating a C6 Vette in a drag race? GIVE ME A BREAK!

[zoom-zoomhatch]

Why does everyone gripe when a fwd car with over 200hp and any reasonable amount of torque breaks the front tires loose and has torque steer?

[Matthew1785]

this car is not a family hatch hence why they have the mazda 3 hatch this car is for the sport enthusist's but w/e to each his own I suppose

[Mocoso]

this car is not a family hatch hence why they have the mazda 3 hatch this car is for the sport enthusist's but w/e to each his own I suppose


Sport enthusiast on a budget and with some practical requirements :) (like taking two kids to daycare...)

[Hikaru9]

Top Gear doesnt count... that show is just a comedy hour... guy will bitch and moan about anything not made in Europe....(peep)

I was referring to the Top Gear magazine as we're talking about magazines in this thread. ^_^;;

True, the guys on the TV show will rail on anything that's not an Aston Martin (but it's still entertaining to watch when they do stuff like Aigo soccer *^_^*)

[SwampAss]

Top Gear doesnt count... that show is just a comedy hour... guy will bitch and moan about anything not made in Europe....(peep)
Except the MS6, which he loved. I agree about the show. It's entertainment first and foremost, information last.

He's right about the MS3 in wet weather. My turbo GTI would have done the same thing if I was pumping out the power my MS3 is. I was trying to get my GTI to that point, but bought the MS3 instead. The violence of stomping this car in lower gears is why I bought it. If I wanted a finely tuned car with impeccable balance, I'd have bought an Elise. The R32 he mentioned is a great car but it weighs 3600lbs. Pitch one of those hard into a turn and trust me, it feels every bit of 3600lbs.

[wishingfora ms3]

Top Gear doesnt count... that show is just a comedy hour... guy will bitch and moan about anything not made in Europe....(peep)

he also loved the vette. that was the only car he actually laughed in bc he was having so much fun. then he faced against the tvr saggaris and the vette got it's a$$ handed to it. lol

[dcomiskey]

You're not serious, are you?


This review means nothing when the author of it says the RX-8 is a good drivers car. (shocked) (yupnope)

[Hikaru9]

Except the MS6, which he loved.

He also said this though.

"I like this Mazda very much, but I don't know if I can live with that radiator-grill. It's like you've met the best girl you've ever seen, but she's got a beard"

puhaha~ *^_^*

[SwampAss]

it's just a bag away from my dream girl. :)

[tsunami]

eh probably not the best car to have in a country that is almost always wet and rainging/foggy and has all those other options to choose from for a hot hatch.

[Hikaru9]

eh probably not the best car to have in a country that is almost always wet and rainging/foggy and has all those other options to choose from for a hot hatch.

Off topic but it's interesting to me that these people (in the UK) purchase more convertibles than any other country. (first)

[neit_jnf]

Jeremy Clarkson also loved the RX-8, except, hmm, in the wet...



Originally Posted by Vermilion
This review means nothing when the author of it says the RX-8 is a good drivers car.

Agree... NOT! Have you even driven it?

[Kansei]

This review means nothing when the author of it says the RX-8 is a good drivers car. (shocked) (yupnope)

You've gotta be kidding me. The RX-8 is an AMAZING driver's car.

I do agree that there's a limit to how much power is useful, and it's definitely lower for FWD than RWD. I'd rather have a car where I could swing the tail out on command than a car that I could.. understeer and torque steer on command.

The RX-8 is beautifully balanced, graceful, has no turbo whiplash and turns on a dime.

Is it just me or did Mazda cater waaay too much to the SRT4 kiddies with the MS3?

[CTGrey02]

The cars fine for what it is. The power I'm interested in using is going to be for highway passing and manuevers anyway. Trying to wind a 130 HP focus up to passing speed isn't fun when your used to going far faster.

[Rainman]

Torque steer? God, did they ever drive the MSP? Compared to my MSP, the torque steer of the MS3 is very, very tame.

R

[Az Mazda Driver]

ehh dont worry bout the review its just someone trying to change peoples opinions in every single magazine i ve seen, the mazda speed always came out on top its gonna be the most popular car this year it kicks ass. today while waiting at my dentist aka "hell" i read an import tuner mag and it compared ms3 to WRX and ms3 kicked some massive butt

[Mocoso]

he also loved the vette. that was the only car he actually laughed in bc he was having so much fun. then he faced against the tvr saggaris and the vette got it's a$$ handed to it. lol

You must have missed the episode where he took a vette out to the dry lake, rigged it with autopilot and shot the hell out of it with a mini-gun from a chopper.... entertaining as hell but painfull to watch nevertheless....

I do admit the MS3 has stiffer competition in Europe.. in the US there really arent that many cars in the price/performance/looks category that the MS3 falls into...

[jacen]

I like it the way it is. I didn't want, and don't need the weight of, 4wd or AWD. Granted, on day 2 i put snow tires on it so I haven't pushed it too hard in any corners, but it feels good now. I'll be having fun with it all summer no matter what this article said.

For torque steer, try driving a 190whp/150wtq FWD car on a road course with sticky tires without power steering! I was instructing in someone else's car and now know that I will be keeping the power steering in my track car after that experience.

[Pololo_MS3]

This review means nothing when the author of it says the RX-8 is a good drivers car. (shocked) (yupnope)

Excuse me?????

Fun factor the RX8 is hands down WAAAAY better than the MS3. Let's be realistic here. Power is NOT everything! No way I can take the turns as fast as I did with the RX8 even in stock form.

I MISS my RX8 a lot and I miss my first generation Miata even more! These were fun cars to drive. These are definitely a driver's car in my opinion.

I do like the MS3 and it was a good "compromise" for me when I decided to replace the RX8 that got totalled. It's a good car but no way it's a "driver's" car. Steering waay too vague and the same goes for the shifter.

I think I am bit biased towards RWD and I miss that in the MS3 :(

My 2 cents,
Carlos

[Hikaru9]

Excuse me?????

Fun factor the RX8 is hands down WAAAAY better than the MS3. Let's be realistic here. Power is NOT everything! No way I can take the turns as fast as I did with the RX8 even in stock form.

I MISS my RX8 a lot and I miss my first generation Miata even more! These were fun cars to drive. These are definitely a driver's car in my opinion.

I do like the MS3 and it was a good "compromise" for me when I decided to replace the RX8 that got totalled. It's a good car but no way it's a "driver's" car. Steering waay too vague and the same goes for the shifter.

I think I am bit biased towards RWD and I miss that in the MS3 :(

My 2 cents,
Carlos

Having driven the RX-8 and the current generation MX-5 on the track, I wouldn't say its (RX-8) fun factor is waaaay better than the MS3. Not saying the MS3 is better, either... just different. Perhaps, it's because you were used to the RWD, and I've driven FWD all my life.

I do agree about the shifter, however. I wonder if the Mazdaspeed short shifter will improve the feel of it at all. ^_^a

[djarkitek]

that review makes me want the car more

[neit_jnf]

^^ yeah me too!!

too much power and torque!! crazy wheelspin in the wet! drooool hahahaha

[FlyinMSP]

This wouldn't be the first bad review. A couple of others (such as Top Gear), also from UK, gave the MS3 not so stellar ratings. ^_^;;



Except the ones from North America, most reviws of the MS3 are either negatives or so so...

[h0rde]

Excuse me?????

Fun factor the RX8 is hands down WAAAAY better than the MS3. Let's be realistic here. Power is NOT everything! No way I can take the turns as fast as I did with the RX8 even in stock form.

I MISS my RX8 a lot and I miss my first generation Miata even more! These were fun cars to drive. These are definitely a driver's car in my opinion.

I do like the MS3 and it was a good "compromise" for me when I decided to replace the RX8 that got totalled. It's a good car but no way it's a "driver's" car. Steering waay too vague and the same goes for the shifter.

I think I am bit biased towards RWD and I miss that in the MS3 :(

My 2 cents,
Carlos

I'm with you. I owned my RX-8 (and still do at the time of this posting) for over 3 years, and the MS3 doesn't even compare. It's not a sports car, and the RX-8 is. The only reason I'm buying the MS3 to replace the RX-8 is that I can only afford one car and I need something more practical for all weather...the MS3 was the only thing on the market that I could see myself "tolerating," when I'd really just prefer to keep my RX-8 - it's a fantastic car.
The MS3 is faster in a line, but that's the only superlative it's got.

[SwampAss]

not to further the this car vs. that car but my stock E46 325i handles considerable better on all seasons than does the MS3 on potenzas. That's not to say the MS3 handles poorly by anymeans. I just like the feeling a RWD car give when hucked into a corner. I like being able to throttle steer the car. I can't do that in a FWD car. I can only slide more off the road. :)

[Vermilion]

Just because I said the RX8 isn't a drivers car (to me atleast) doesn't mean the MS3 is any better or even could be worse. The guy talking is just full of shit and if I wanted a good drivers car i'd get a miata which IS a good drivers car.

[DeepBlue]

Ok look fellas, you can't compare RWD vs FWD because they are 2 totally different characteristics. No car is better than the other it all depends on your personal likes or dislikes.

As far as the MS3 is concerned, you can't beat the fun to punch it going 70 mph and watch the cars drift away when you reach 100+ mph in a couple of seconds. While taking off from a dead stop is not it's best suit take her on the highway and see what she was built for.

I have no trouble taking her through tight turns as she screams while her wheels howl. Just give it the gas on the turns and she'll pull you through.

[VermZ06]

The reviewer has a hard on for the GTI and is a bit upset that a little japanese automobile company known as Mazda can blow the doors off the competition in the fwd market. The MS3 is the best bang for your buck period.

It's just like when they review american cars and say the vette is totally unrefined, or americans don't know how to build cars. Well how many victories does the vette have at LeMans? More than most.

[FunkyBuddha]

The reviewer has a hard on for the GTI and is a bit upset that a little japanese automobile company known as Mazda can blow the doors off the competition in the fwd market. The MS3 is the best bang for your buck period.

It's just like when they review american cars and say the vette is totally unrefined, or americans don't know how to build cars. Well how many victories does the vette have at LeMans? More than most.


Yes it might be the best bang for your buck but you gotta think that the torque on a FWD car is too much. That's what's wrong with North America ....everyone thinks bigger is better, more is not enough. Sure it's fun in a straight away, but what happens if you want to have the same fun in some tight mountain roads? No one can deny the fact that a fwd car will understeer, no matter what the power rating is. But if you add considerably more power to the car, the understeer will get worse. And that's what the reviewer experienced and wrote.

[Mocoso]

Yes it might be the best bang for your buck but you gotta think that the torque on a FWD car is too much. That's what's wrong with North America ....everyone thinks bigger is better, more is not enough. Sure it's fun in a straight away, but what happens if you want to have the same fun in some tight mountain roads? No one can deny the fact that a fwd car will understeer, no matter what the power rating is. But if you add considerably more power to the car, the understeer will get worse. And that's what the reviewer experienced and wrote.


Oh I dont know my big V8 does just fine on those tight mountain roads (glare) ... bigger IS better when done right! (or used right (evil) )

Besides this is the first FWD Ive had that I can steer the rear end by letting go of the gas on a turn... that has to count for something ...

[Hambino]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, Brit's are the lamest group of people on earth.

[SwampAss]

Ok look fellas, you can't compare RWD vs FWD because they are 2 totally different characteristics. No car is better than the other it all depends on your personal likes or dislikes.





But you can compare them! While the comparisons are vast and the differences are great, they both equate to the same thing. How a car handles.

I have more fun in my MS3 than I do in my 325i and it was $10,000 cheaper.

[Kansei]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, Brit's are the lamest group of people on earth.

:'( (poke) (glare)

well I'm only half brit so it doesn't bug me haha

The brits are just very nationalistic. I bet they'd rank a Jag X-type 2.5i as a better driver's car than the Mazdaspeed3.

[Hughes412]

Well I think he got it dead on!
That much power in a FWD car is just rediculous. You don't get shit for traction, any racing has to be done from a role because you do nothing but spin from a dig. Now put AWD on it and it's a different story. And for the price it wouldn't matter. In reality I bet it would sell even better. I would buy one today if it was RWD!!

[Hughes412]

Why does everyone gripe when a fwd car with over 200hp and any reasonable amount of torque breaks the front tires loose and has torque steer?
Why have a 6spd trasmition when the first 2 gears are worthless! Remember this is supposed to be a sport hatch. It was ment to be ran hard. But yet you really cant until half way through 3rd. So I can see why he wrote this.

[Wes]

I wish the writer of that article could have driven my '92 Eagle Talon TSi... it was a FWD model and we got it up to about 350hp. Keeping it in a straight line under acceleration was a total body work out!

[neit_jnf]

I can't seem to find it but some time ago I read a track comparison between the RX-8, MS6, MS3 and the new MX-5; I think it was in Canada. The results were (from fastest to slowest):

RX-8
MS3
MS6
MX-5

[pbr]

I owned a 04 Rx8 and now own an MS3, interms of acceleration the 3 would blow away the Rx8 and handling is not far off, more room, more practical, better ride. I enjoyed the 8 but the 3 is a better all around car for less money.

[Hughes412]

I owned a 04 Rx8 and now own an MS3, interms of acceleration the 3 would blow away the Rx8 and handling is not far off, more room, more practical, better ride. I enjoyed the 8 but the 3 is a better all around car for less money.


And don't forget the MS3 gets better MPGs!

[Kansei]

And don't forget the MS3 gets better MPGs!

not if you boost alll the time.

[sephiroth]

If you persevere and if the road is at all damp (as it was during my week with the car), the front wheels will soon lose traction in first, second and occasionally even third gear,
loss of traction on a wet road? my god he's onto something!

It's one thing to get on the MS3 for it's torque steer and native lack of traction for being a 200+HP FWD car.. but to rack it for loss of traction on a wet road sounds like he's having a difficult time trying to come up with reasons why it's a bad car. Especially when you consider that most of people that are going to read his review already know that it's going to have traction problems just for being a 200+HP FWD car. It's just rhetorical nonsense to me.

[meha11]

This article is written by a journalist who works for the Times. Your stereotype Times reader is a middle aged middle classed overweight bolding conservative English man who would normally drive a Mercedes. This is the perfect description for my step dad who happens to be a very nice man but would have no interest in zooming around the twisty small roads of the English countryside in a ms3 which in his opinion would not be considered to be as refined as his turbo diesel merc. estate (station wagon).

My point being, this article is intended for people like my step dad to read, and advise them that our car is probably not suited to their taste.

Yes the car would be better awd but if that’s what we wanted we would have a Scooby-Doo in our drive ways.

Who the hell cares what the Times thinks, I love my ms3

[FlyinMSP]

Here's another so so review, and it's AutoExpress ;) :
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/204337/mazda_3.html

[Rotus8]

Here's another so so review, and it's AutoExpress ;) :
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/204337/mazda_3.html
The article says "It's not so much bang for your buck, as power for your pound. The new Mazda 3 MPS costs £18,995, yet boasts an incredible 256bhp courtesy of its turbocharged 2.3-litre engine."

£18,995 is $37,222 US today. I say yeah, it's not a good deal. We get a bargain at $23K!