Lack of Power?

[Rikatomika]

Hi,
I hope someone can help put me on the right path to solving this issue.
I’m not sure if this is the same thing as the Hesitation issue but here is what I’m experiencing.
Under acceleration the car seems to lack power, almost like the turbo isn’t supplying boost. Sometimes it feels like the engine is cutting unless I feather the throttle just right. I can hear the turbo whine so it’s spooling. When the engine is cold the car pulls like mad, like it should. I’m not sure if it’s an engine management issue or something more notorious. I mean it’s like having a non turbo car at this point.
I have 30K on my warranty left and want to figure this out so I can see if I can get the dealer to fix it.

Thanks,

Rik

[GreySpeed]

Sounds like the problem could be the wastegate actuator, which is a common problem on here.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123655369

"When the engine is cold the car pulls like mad, like it should." You probably should wait until it warms up to let it pull like mad.

[jeffmsp]

might wanna throw a boost gauge on there and see whats going on with your boost levels. If tey are varying odds are you need an actuator. Dont boost over 8psi with the stock exhaust if it is boosting by chance, so if its going over 8 take your foot off the pedal and drive it out of boost to a shop regardless if the boost is varying.

[Rikatomika]

Generally most of the time it is, but running a engine cold and running and engine hot and testing if a problem exsists can tell me things. If I wouldn't run it cold I'd never know that it happens only when the engines hot.Things change, like fuel curves and timing based on engine temp. For example would the wastegate articualtor not work when cold but not hot? Im going to check it because it feels like it could be something like that perhaps. The car seems confused, like it doesn't know if should go or not.

[PlatinumMSP]

does your car have any mods on it? If it does, pull them off and put your stock shit back on and take it to the dealer and have them fix the problem. Thats the most direct way of fixing your problem.

[jmv]

well this could easily be an intercooler heatsoak issue. If you still have the stock intercooler, thats a notorious problem. Its so small that for me, in texas, after about one pull in boost, it would be mostly done. You could floor it, getting the same amount of psi, but feel NO power. Theres many different options for different price ranges for helping this problem, if you decide that might be what it is.

[Jaysanooch]

Sounds like heat soak to me....especially if your saying it pulls like mad when the car is cold. Your car is stock..I imagine? A simple smic upgrade would suffice....it made a world of a difference for me.

My top 3 things to do the second you own a Msp are:

1. Change all vacuum lines
2. upgrade the smic
3. change to hard pipes

[Rikatomika]

Yeah its completely stock. I know my way around NA engines but the turbo things is new to me as far as all the issues and how the diagnose them. Im in Minnesota and while its cold its tropical by our standards here at at pleasent 30 degrees. Is it possible to let it sit with the engine running for a bit to let the turbo cool down enough to get a good pull out of it? If so that would surely confirm that. A friend that builds turbo Saturns suggested getting a bigger intercooler too so after I check the mechanicals I'll see about pricing a larger intercooler.

Thanks for everyones responses!

[Jaysanooch]

Is it possible to let it sit with the engine running for a bit to let the turbo cool down enough to get a good pull out of it?

Nah...that makes it worst, what you really want is an ice cold intercooler at all times. So by sitting there at idle the heat from engine just warms up our side mount intercooler=no good.

Once the smic is warmed up it just ain't the same. I think if you want to help get the smic cooler and it would only work during highway driving, is to not boost for awhile that way the air would flow through and cool it down.

A front mount intercooler is the solution but if your looking for a quick and easy install with a decent amount of improvement...you should check out the upgraded smic.

[PlatinumMSP]

oh please, guys he lives in minesota, heat soak is not to blame for this, although it may contribute to it, i dont think its the cause of his problems, I live in California, stock smic, I have power all the time, sometimes its more sometimes its less but I always have power and he's saying he dosnt.

[b_dues]

maybe its simply turbo lag...? does it bog down (a.k.a lag) at low rpm's, or whenever accelerating. if it lags at lower rpm's than yeah sure thats either heat soak because of that harbage stock SMIC, but it should pull hard after 4000 rpm, if it doesnt than you have a problem..may be your wastegate, get a boost gauge and see if your boost is spiking higher than stock psi.

[msp35]

1 of 2 things
1) Heatsoak, and yes it is an issue in this car even after only one HARD run.
2) Shitty tuning, We all know how rich the car runs.
So, it is up to you which method of correction your choose. If you upgrade to either a fmic or smic, then you still have the bum ass mazda tuning. On the other hand, if you get some fuel control or an EMS then you still have the P.O.S. Stock smic.

[b_dues]

the stock exhaust is balls as well, its extremely restrictive so that creates lag issues

[Rikatomika]

At mid RPM it feels like a fuel cut but at high RPMs it revs fine but just doesn’t feel like I’m getting boost. If I’m pushing the car it feels like it runs and drives fine. When it gets warm enough to bare being outside, I’m going to check to make sure the wastegate is functioning. The turbo seems to wind up just fine. Perhaps the engine isn’t getting correct boost at a particular point and the computer is feeding it more fuel than it should for the amount of air that’s actually being taken in? I’ve thought about a new aftermarket fuel management system. I’m going to have to bring it in and see if the dealership can plug it in and see something. I just don’t want to get hosed for $$$ from the dealer, they always seem to find a way to squeeze cash out of you even if it’s under warranty.

[BOOSTR]

Not sure if I missed it, but is your car flashed? And I doubt you're having heatsoak issues in MN. Boost cut due to the weather is very possible. If you have a cool dealer and or do not have mods on the car, just take it in and ask them to look at it. Tell them not to fix anything unless its covered under warranty.

[jmv]

oh please, guys he lives in minesota, heat soak is not to blame for this, although it may contribute to it, i dont think its the cause of his problems, I live in California, stock smic, I have power all the time, sometimes its more sometimes its less but I always have power and he's saying he dosnt.


I can't disagree enough.... yes maybe in minesota at this time of year its not a HUGE deal, but i can't imagine that you don't have any problems in cali. I'm not kidding when i say that in spring/summer/early fall in texas, when you get on it once its already heatsoaked. It makes a HUGE difference to me. Hence the fact that i know have an FMIC.



rikatomika, i would reccomend getting a boost gauge so you can check out what the car is doing as far as boost levels and idle vacuum levels, so you can check for leaks or any other boost related issues. Do you ever have problems with your idle??

[Knox Joe]

SMIC, AFC, and TBE. Problem solved.

OH and you can get heat soak on an aftermarket SMIC too. I have the Turbohoses and it still gets heat soak in 30-40 degree weather.

[b_dues]

SMIC, AFC, and TBE. Problem solved.

OH and you can get heat soak on an aftermarket SMIC too. I have the Turbohoses and it still gets heat soak in 30-40 degree weather.

you can heatsoak any intercooler, can you not?

[Knox Joe]

you can heatsoak any intercooler, can you not?
Yup.

It's still pretty bad with the upgraded SMIC IMO.

[msp35]

I've had this issue with my car since damn near day one. I found out it was simply the tuning and heatsoak. Look @ the back bumper of your car.

I guarantee you'll find a shitload of black soot, unless recently washed. The reason it'll pull hard when cold is cuz everything is cold, smic, turbo, ambient air in the engine compartment. This cooler air is dense enough to offset the richness of our A/F ratio...that is until you FLOOR IT ONCE (then it's all warm).......right now it's ~30* and I can feel a noticeable difference from the 1st, to the 2nd, and 3rd and each successive time I accelerate.

[Jaysanooch]

Yup.

It's still pretty bad with the upgraded SMIC IMO.

No doubt but it's a hellavalot better than the stock smic IMO.
I got my money on...that his car is not flashed. That would be the simple fix for now..but I agree with Knox Joe.


SMIC, AFC, and TBE. Problem solved.

OH and you can get heat soak on an aftermarket SMIC too. I have the Turbohoses and it still gets heat soak in 30-40 degree weather.

That would be the best bang for your buck!

[PlatinumMSP]

I've had both the turbohoses smic upgrade and the hiboost fmic on my ride, so I know what i'm talking about when I say, that heat soak isnt that big of a deal. Yeah the car does run like ass on really hot days. But I still think this isnt his problem, its hard to tell with his description really, I think we'd need to drive his car to actually be sure. A good experiment for him would be to let the car warm up see if it runs like shit, then throw some ice and water on that intercooler and take it for a spin again and see what happens. If it runs good well then u guys are right about the heatsoak, if not well then its another issue.

[jmv]

I've had both the turbohoses smic upgrade and the hiboost fmic on my ride, so I know what i'm talking about when I say, that heat soak isnt that big of a deal.


Well i guess we'll have to agree to disagree.... the FMIC for me made the car feel completely different, as well as consistant.

[BOOSTR]

Its pointless to debate causes not knowing if its flashed or not IMO.

[PlatinumMSP]

being flashed wouldnt explain his having power when his car is cold and not having power when its warmed up though, although hesitation sucks in all instances...

[Kansei]

Its pointless to debate causes not knowing if its flashed or not IMO.

Is there a different part number for the flashed ECUs? I don't know if mine is flashed or not, I just got it on the car a couple weeks ago but I'm definitely feeling the hesitation.. I hear the turbo, I see the boost (on boost gauge), my air/fuel ratio looks ok (my wideband is in the pocket near the cupholders so I can't constantly monitor it while boosting on public roads lol), but it bogs down and feels like it has less power than when it is out of boost.. it pulls until like 2800, then falls flat a bit and feels weird for a while, then around 5300RPMs it suddenly starts screaming right up to redline... feels like VTEC in all the wrong ways.

If this is something I can remedy with the DSM AFC then I'll just deal with it until I have lots of extra cash and pick that up.

I'm at 7-8.5ish psi (not stock wastegate actuator), corksport downpipe, mam midpipe, racing beat catback (not the fake catback the MSP came with.. the real full catback), hiboost FMIC (custom piping to fit with P5 radiator).. hmm