Ghetto or Genius?

[Kypatrick]

OK, after seeing everybody turn their $250+ AEM and Injen CAI kits into SHort rams, I decided to try something. I was gonna get a Weapon R Short ram on Ebay, but got Out-bidded. So being the experimental tightwad (ask my wife) i am, I bought a cheap intake kit for another car, and decided to fab my own kit.
Here are the pics.

[03MSP]

Neither, haha.

Nothing wrong with it, but you still are using the stock plastic piping so it won't make much difference, if any. I bet it sounds better though.

Looks like it at least is clearing the hot air blown by fans though, so that's a plus.

[MP3Architect]

hows the car running with that? should the maf be closer to the intake? how much did this setup cost you in the end?

[Kypatrick]

hows the car running with that? should the maf be closer to the intake? how much did this setup cost you in the end?

Car runs fine. No problems. i took it for a quick test and it ran normal. The B.O.V. sounded different and you can hear the turbo "suck" more. Well, it cost me about $30. The MAF is in the stock location, basicaly, i just pulled the stock airbox and added a filter. What you got? Interested in a similar setup?

[Kypatrick]

Neither, haha.

Nothing wrong with it, but you still are using the stock plastic piping so it won't make much difference, if any. I bet it sounds better though.

Looks like it at least is clearing the hot air blown by fans though, so that's a plus.
I originally purchased 2 intake kits for different cars with the intent on going from the turbo up, but I couldnt get it to work out, so i got lazy.

[gimpo2]

thats not too bad. i've seen a CAI made out of PVC from home depot. Now that is ghetto

[MP3Architect]

Car runs fine. No problems. i took it for a quick test and it ran normal. The B.O.V. sounded different and you can hear the turbo "suck" more. Well, it cost me about $30. The MAF is in the stock location, basicaly, i just pulled the stock airbox and added a filter. What you got? Interested in a similar setup?
nah i have an injen converted to sri....i was just curious.

[Kypatrick]

I figured the Airbox was the most restrictive part, so at a minimum I wanted to get it out.

[Kypatrick]

thats not too bad. i've seen a CAI made out of PVC from home depot. Now that is ghetto

That thought did cross my mind!(rtfm)

[gimpo2]

the funny thing the guy said it was better than an aluminum intake because pvc doesn't heat soak as easily. it looked like he had part of a swimming pool pump in there. it was like 3-4 inch tubing

[thaikim]

What I don't quite understand is how everyone says that the stock intake piping is so restrictive and that placing a filter on the end will do little if not hurt performance. Yet HKS sells an "intake" for our car and it's just a foam green filter that attatches onto the end of the MAF, using the stock piping. (scratch)

[Kypatrick]

What I don't quite understand is how everyone says that the stock intake piping is so restrictive and that placing a filter on the end will do little if not hurt performance. Yet HKS sells an "intake" for our car and it's just a foam green filter that attatches onto the end of the MAF, using the stock piping. (scratch)

I think that qualifies me as genius!
I wouldnt think the stock tubing is that restrictive either. Im not very car-smart, but I would guess that replacing the box would help the situation the most. I was originally trying to go from Turbo up, but i couldnt get the bends I had to work. Its what i get for being a tight-a$$!

[Kypatrick]

the funny thing the guy said it was better than an aluminum intake because pvc doesn't heat soak as easily. it looked like he had part of a swimming pool pump in there. it was like 3-4 inch tubing

Doesnt Metal dissipate heat?

[gimpo2]

Doesnt Metal dissipate heat?

metal conducts heat better than pvc. he had a point. it just looked bad

[Kypatrick]

Hey, as long as it works, right!

[Mazdaspeed48]

Hey, as long as it works, right!

haha id rather loose a lil power than have it look like my car came out of the projects (drive)

[gimpo2]

haha id rather loose a lil power than have it look like my car came out of the projects (drive)

noone will know what your intake looks like unless you show them tho

[Falango]

Paint the PVC black and noone will EVER know!! Or get it chromed, haha.

[Kypatrick]

Paint the PVC black and noone will EVER know!! Or get it chromed, haha.

Make it Bling!!!!!!Lol!

[msp35]

Advanced Auto, Napa, Autozone are starting to cary universal Aluminum bends for ~$4-9/ea. And couplers as well. IMO it'd be better than the pvc.

[MSpeed2397]

PVC, Metal, whatever...it's a goddamn tube...this is what makes me laugh about car parts and whatnot. People go way in depth to see what will work best...if you just want it to work the tube could be made of anything theoretically...as long as air or whatever can flow through it, it works. Obviously some materials are preferred over others, but if you need to rig something up...it's not TOO difficult if we're talkin' about a friggen tube ya know?

[Kypatrick]

PVC, Metal, whatever...it's a goddamn tube...this is what makes me laugh about car parts and whatnot. People go way in depth to see what will work best...if you just want it to work the tube could be made of anything theoretically...as long as air or whatever can flow through it, it works. Obviously some materials are preferred over others, but if you need to rig something up...it's not TOO difficult if we're talkin' about a friggen tube ya know?

What flavor of tube would you prefer?

[jeffmsp]

just go to an exhaust shop and ask them to bend you a pipe the way you want it. Get some clamps and silicone coupings too.

[Falango]

Cardboard paper towel tubes would work too, but only for about 4 seconds. Bendy straws too!!

[Kypatrick]

Cardboard paper towel tubes would work too, but only for about 4 seconds. Bendy straws too!!

The paper towel tubes would be hard to bend.

[Dr.Sound]

you just lost about 10 whp. and are getting much shittier gas milage (although this will be more evident in summer).

there is NOTHING wrong with stock airbox. there have been MSPs running over 260whp with stock boxes.
your MAF readings are out of wak, and u will be getting more hesitation in the summer.

this has been dyno proven.

P.S. there are NO gains in putting a CAI on a turbo car...or any intake for that matter.
a drop in filter works just as well......
....but ofcourse u wont get that "cool" turkey sound.

[gone_fishin]

There are exceptions, but I think it's amusing how a lot of people (and I'm not singling you out by any means, so please don't take it that way) that think that their home depot DIY project will surmount the likes of Mazda's research and engineering, or any car company for that matter.

For instance, believe it or not, there was a ton of engineering behind that stupid plastic airbox that you got rid of. It takes a team of engineers to tweek the designs just right to get the air resonance to not drone like a fart cannon. And there's a reason mazda doesn't leave the intake filter bare and heatsoaked in the engine bay or sticking out the fender well.

But there's nothing wrong with ingenuity.

[Dr.Sound]

OK, after seeing everybody turn their $250+ AEM and Injen CAI kits into SHort rams, I decided to try something. I was gonna get a Weapon R Short ram on Ebay, but got Out-bidded. So being the experimental tightwad (ask my wife) i am, I bought a cheap intake kit for another car, and decided to fab my own kit.
i did this EXACT thing to my car in 2003.
except i didnt use a cheap ebay intake kit, but a $60 K&N cone filter AND i used a heatshield. (think about it, the fan is 3 inches away from your filter and is blowing hot air directly into it).
i also remounted the overflow bottle so that the metal pipe directs the filter to where the bottle used to be.

well i was running all happy and giggly untill i brought my car in to K&N R&D to prototype a Typhoon CAI. they dynoed my car with my DYI intake, then stock, then with Typhoon CAI.

stock was 153whp
DYI intake (like yours) was 142whp
and CAI was arround the same as stock, except with a worse dyno curve overall.

[jersey_emt]

Looks good to me. Plus it avoids the problem of just smacking a cone filter right onto the MAF -- the hot air being blown right into it.

[Kypatrick]

There are exceptions, but I think it's amusing how a lot of people (and I'm not singling you out by any means, so please don't take it that way) that think that their home depot DIY project will surmount the likes of Mazda's research and engineering, or any car company for that matter.

For instance, believe it or not, there was a ton of engineering behind that stupid plastic airbox that you got rid of. It takes a team of engineers to tweek the designs just right to get the air resonance to not drone like a fart cannon. And there's a reason mazda doesn't leave the intake filter bare and heatsoaked in the engine bay or sticking out the fender well.

But there's nothing wrong with ingenuity.


So you think its still gettin hot air from the Fan even tho its curved away from it? I still dont see how that stupid Box is better than a Cone filter.

[Kypatrick]

i did this EXACT thing to my car in 2003.
except i didnt use a cheap ebay intake kit, but a $60 K&N cone filter AND i used a heatshield. (think about it, the fan is 3 inches away from your filter and is blowing hot air directly into it).
i also remounted the overflow bottle so that the metal pipe directs the filter to where the bottle used to be.

well i was running all happy and giggly untill i brought my car in to K&N R&D to prototype a Typhoon CAI. they dynoed my car with my DYI intake, then stock, then with Typhoon CAI.

stock was 153whp
DYI intake (like yours) was 142whp
and CAI was arround the same as stock, except with a worse dyno curve overall.


Do you have any pics? So it was EXACTLY like mine, curve and all??? I dont see how removing that stupid box would hurt me. Its gotta be restrictive. Auto Manufactures have Emissions they have to meet, and it seems they like to muffle the intake sounds, so I figure its gotta be better than stock. Now I dont Know, Im gettin both opinions now.

[Kypatrick]

you just lost about 10 whp. and are getting much shittier gas milage (although this will be more evident in summer).

there is NOTHING wrong with stock airbox. there have been MSPs running over 260whp with stock boxes.
your MAF readings are out of wak, and u will be getting more hesitation in the summer.

this has been dyno proven.

P.S. there are NO gains in putting a CAI on a turbo car...or any intake for that matter.
a drop in filter works just as well......
....but ofcourse u wont get that "cool" turkey sound.

If my MAF readings were out of Wack!, wouldnt I be gettin a "check engine" light???? I am pretty sure I would be.

[jeffmsp]

pretty sure there are lots of dyno proven gains for cold air intakes on turbo cars buddy. for one the iat sensor does not pull timing since it gets cooler air, plus whatever benefit there is for compressing cooler air. I think Coleman did a nice write up on it somewhere, im sure somebody has a link. I never had a single problem with my CAI regarding idle and I had no problem wit it up to 1 bar of boost. Now I run just a K and N.

[Dr.Sound]

If my MAF readings were out of Wack!, wouldnt I be gettin a "check engine" light???? I am pretty sure I would be.
they are not to a point where the readings would be totally messed up, but they are NOT the same as the ECU expects.

yes ofcourse there are gains in having short ram or CAI, but you have to have engine management of some sort to tune for them.
ask any decent tuner and they will say the same. stock ECU was designed for stock airbox. anything else will most likely hinder performance (unless you're in a honda :P).

MSP ECU is already pretty shitty, why would you go further and mess with it even more.
want good gains from your intake, get Unichip or MPI or even Custom MSP's split second controller.

[Dr.Sound]

Do you have any pics? So it was EXACTLY like mine, curve and all??? I dont see how removing that stupid box would hurt me. Its gotta be restrictive. Auto Manufactures have Emissions they have to meet, and it seems they like to muffle the intake sounds, so I figure its gotta be better than stock. Now I dont Know, Im gettin both opinions now.
go search for "quicktsi" posts.
over 260whp on stock airbox. i'm sure that's more than your car sees now.
i'm not knocking you for doing what you did. we all have to start somewhere. i did the same thing 4 years ago and i thought it was great. i didnt have anyone to tell me otherwise.....untill i dynoed the car.

the setup was exactly like yours except i had a heatshield that covered the half of the filter that was exposed to the fans. (and now, airflow was not hindered).
u know that little snorkle that is on the stock box, it drops intake tems 10-15 degrees just because it is bent away from the fans.

if you want cooler underhood temperature, remove the weather stripping on the firewall. it's right by the wiper blades.
you can also put 2-3 washers on your hood mounts to rase it up a little so the hot air flows out. you might have seen this done on rx7's and 240s.

there is much more you can do then just slap on a cone filter to increase performance. and it wont cost you anything.
drive arround with your setup for a month. then put stock box back on. then PM me and tell me that i was right and that your car runs much better.

[jeffmsp]

ya with it definately doesnt run the greatest with the SRI, especially in heavy traffic stop and go. it will feel weak and sloppy in the lower rpms,you even have to release the clutch a little diferent sometimes to keep from stalling. CAI is the way to go. Yes the stock airbox has been on 300HP cars, doesnt mean its the best, it just works so many dont bother replacing it for the minor gains and sound. FYI The new mazdaspeed3 puts out 30WHP more with a intake and catback exhaust. I am sure you can see good numbers like that with tuning on a MSP if you uncork the exhaust a bit too.

[BlkZoomZoom]

Well awhile back I did some back to back testing with my MSP. Same night at the track I used the stock airbox w/ stock filter, stock airbox w/ k&n, and a homemade sri that completely replaced the stock intake tube and airbox. I did 2 back to back runs in each configuration. I can't remember exactly what the times were, but I know that the stock intake w/ k&n had the best mph. If I remember correctly the mph was like .6 difference.

[Kypatrick]

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k275/fordraceguy16/SSPX0039.jpg



OK, I did some Modifying. I refuse to give up on my ingenuity. I understand that the ECU isnt programmed for a CAI or SRI, but is it so touchy that adding an intake would hurt you? Im not any kind of car genius, but I have yet to seen a car NOT benefit from ripping the stupid "box" out and adding an intake. Shouldnt the MAF and IAT Sensors pick up the difference and send those signals to the ECU. You arent gonna get the same amount of air at the same temps everyday, so how could a ECU be so touchy? I know it seems like im beating a dead Horse here, but im just trying to learn, either from my mistakes or anybody elses. (ughdance)

[Earful]

Similar to my setup....which for my mods works very well......

[gone_fishin]

Generally speaking, the CAI plays off of two principles:

Colder air means the air density is greater, which translates into more O2 in ppm than less dense air. Technically speaking, the greater ppm of 02, the more powerful the combustion stroke is. So theoretically, by positioning the intake filter outside of the engine bay (where the ambient temperature produced by the heat of the engine does not heatsoak an otherwise internally located filter), a CAI consumes a slightly less warm charge (more dense).

The second principle aftermarket intakes (that are made of aluminum) play off of is the lesser coefficient of air to piping surface friction of polished aluminum-air than air-plastic. No matter how negligable, there is less friction. Thus the velocity of the charge moving to the head is greater. A higher velocity charge means air is more efficiently available to the head. Inner diamter of the intake piping is also a factor in charge velocity. Generally speaking, with a constant charge density, the narrower the diamter the higher the velocity. The wider the diamter, the lower the velocity. However, finding a balance in this is key. You don't want the inner diamter to be so small that it's restrictive, but you don't want it to be so wide that the air flow velocity goes to shit.

The third principle ANY effective intake should take into account is the path of the charge. Simply speaking, any charge (regardless of the density) flows with less restriction along a straighter and shorter pathway. The straighter and shorter the path, the more air is efficiently available to the head at any given moment.

Designing an intake that fulfills all these principles is a balancing act. Mazda tries to do this, but with alternative motives in mind-- noise reduction and fuel efficiency.

[FlyinMSP]

Similar to my setup....which for my mods works very well......

It's the first time I see someone else with a DIA from BMC!! I still use mine when I take the stock airbox out for filter cleaning...

[Andrewsmc]

What did you do with this... ? http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r218/andrewsmc/MAF.jpg

[Andrewsmc]

and what is it?

[FlyinMSP]

and what is it?

It's the Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor. You can drill a hole on the base of the filter (that's what I did when I was experimenting with short rams) and plug it there

[Andrewsmc]

CEL if its left alone? and.. where would i put it... In the base of the filter..(metal part..)?

[FlyinMSP]

Well, my filter had a rubber base... But you can also drill a hole in the metal pipe (like the AEM or Injen intakes) The IAT is used for timing if I'm not wrong. It will not throw a CEL though (I've tested it)

[Andrewsmc]

ok awesome. Thanks

[Kypatrick]

What did you do with this... ?

If you look closlely at the picture, you can see it right before the first coupling, after the filter. Dont worry, I did some thinking on it. I used a Hole saw and drilled a hole and used the stock grommet.

[Kypatrick]

CEL if its left alone? and.. where would i put it... In the base of the filter..(metal part..)?

Andrew, i just used a 7/8 hole saw and made a hole with the stock grommet. I dont think the spacing has to be excact as long as its before the MAF sensor (If Im wrong, somebody correct me). I have had no problems at all with my homemade SRI, even tho a few peeps have negative opinions. No hesitation, bad gas mileage, or CEL!