XEDE Engine Management System Available Soon!

[Captain KRM P5]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2863116#post2863116

contact me with any questions or inquiries

[arlsmazdaspeed]

NICE!!! Can't wait to the outcome of some of these Mazdaspeed 3's modded and tuned!

[zoom-zoomhatch]

Is this like plug and play like the access port and just require fine tuning or a full out needs to be tuned ems?

[Captain KRM P5]

plug and play on the miata and should be on these cars as well

[Captain KRM P5]

stephanie at bell engineering just called me with some new details including price; $999 for the mazdaspeed3 and mazdaspeed6 models

[II-Savy]

1000 is a lot of money but considering what the bump is ....wow! This is really going to kick ass

[Captain KRM P5]

1000 is a lot of money but considering what the bump is ....wow! This is really going to kick ass

well, its on par with what a system like the microtech offers which is $1200+

[nocoastgangster]

well, its on par with what a system like the microtech offers which is $1200+
I was reading and I was confused about the fuel injector comments. Do we need to buy fuel injectors to use this system or can it use the stock injectors?

[dcomiskey]

Yikes! $1,000? I'll probably pass. :(

[Vermilion]

Question. If it works like the Cobb AP and you plug it in, it does its thing, and you unplug it, well if say a dealer hooks up its diagnostics.. will they be able to see changes to the ECU? I know on my 05 STi I had AP Stage 2 and the dealer never had a clue.

[zoom-zoomhatch]

What I want to know is how does that price compare to the cobb access port.

[StephanieT]

Question. If it works like the Cobb AP and you plug it in, it does its thing, and you unplug it, well if say a dealer hooks up its diagnostics.. will they be able to see changes to the ECU? I know on my 05 STi I had AP Stage 2 and the dealer never had a clue.

Totally different beast than the Cobb unit. I have not heard of anyone cracking a Mazda ECU. And the best have tried.

To clear the codes (IF there are any) unhook the battery. Honestly, they probably won't ever know.
Stephanie

[nocoastgangster]

Totally different beast than the Cobb unit. I have not heard of anyone cracking a Mazda ECU. And the best have tried.

To clear the codes (IF there are any) unhook the battery. Honestly, they probably won't ever know.
Stephanie

I'm assuming your the Stephanie from Begi? If so can you answer my question about the fuel injectors I asked above?
Thanks,
Tim

[Captain KRM P5]

I was reading and I was confused about the fuel injector comments. Do we need to buy fuel injectors to use this system or can it use the stock injectors?

no, this system will use the stock injectors

[Captain KRM P5]

Question. If it works like the Cobb AP and you plug it in, it does its thing, and you unplug it, well if say a dealer hooks up its diagnostics.. will they be able to see changes to the ECU? I know on my 05 STi I had AP Stage 2 and the dealer never had a clue.

the cobb unit re-writes the ECU code itself, this system does not make hard changes to the code on the ECU itself

[Captain KRM P5]

What I want to know is how does that price compare to the cobb access port.

the XEDE is a more expensive unit but we feel a much more comprehensive unit in terms of tunability and features. its like comparing a microtech to a unichip.

stephanie/begi does not believe cobb will be able to crack the mazda ecu, and while i have confidence in cobb's ability to do so, part of me believes they might not be able to based on attempts with the protege ecu.

[tsunami]

from what i read over on teh cobb forums they had already cracked the ecu for the rx8 and the ms6 and were surprised to find out the ms3 uses the same ecu as the cx7 not the ms6... so if what they are saying is true then they have cracked a mazda ecu... not to take away from your thread ken as i believe your comparison was spot on about unichip vs. microtech when comparing the two from what lil i know about both.

good luck

[Anon Y Mous]

I'm in for shizzle.

[Captain KRM P5]

from what i read over on teh cobb forums they had already cracked the ecu for the rx8 and the ms6 and were surprised to find out the ms3 uses the same ecu as the cx7 not the ms6... so if what they are saying is true then they have cracked a mazda ecu... not to take away from your thread ken as i believe your comparison was spot on about unichip vs. microtech when comparing the two from what lil i know about both.

good luck

not taking away from it whatsoever, no worries. i do think if anyone can crack it, it will be a company like cobb. that said, i still feel with the feature set and capability that the XEDE is a more powerful and comprehensive system.

[II-Savy]

I think it sounds unreal. 290 to the wheels is crazy!

Is it easy to de-install?

[Captain KRM P5]

I think it sounds unreal. 290 to the wheels is crazy!

Is it easy to de-install?

very much so

[Anon Y Mous]

if anyone has ever done the mp3 ecu swap you'd know how difficult isn't.

[II-Savy]

very much so

So basically you wireit into the ecu wireing and that's it?
Does it require 93 octain to attain 290 hp?

[Captain KRM P5]

So basically you wireit into the ecu wireing and that's it?
Does it require 93 octain to attain 290 hp?

the mazdaspeed3 and mazdaspeed6 require premium gas regardless of having XEDE or not

[II-Savy]

the mazdaspeed3 and mazdaspeed6 require premium gas regardless of having XEDE or not

ahh yes...true.

[StephanieT]

The octane of the fuel can be accounted for in the timing map. Whether it be 100, 93, 91 or some E85 - it works. The Xede wires into the ECU and that is all.
Stephanie

[Refonbass]

so just to confirm this product needs to be hard wired into the factory ECU? It won't be plug and play? I was hoping that it would be a plug and play unit to take out or put back in just a couple minutes if need be.

[Anon Y Mous]

yeah if it's not p&p I'm out as well. Bad experiences with splicing factory harnesses in the past.

[k-lea]

As far as I know, it is a plug and play system.

[Nutari]

Yes, I was told they are trying to make it a fully plug and play system.

[Nutari]

Systems will be shipping out VERY SOON. These will not be Plug and play. These will be wire-in and only require a minimal amount of work more than a plug and play system. I was told about 6 wires only.

They are currently trying to source harnesses to make the system plug and play but wont be working on it till mid January.



So, it comes down to.. How dedicated are you?

:)

(ughdance)

I know im getting on the first batch...

[StephanieT]

So far, getting ECU connectors for this ECU has been a royal pain. No body has them. Mazda cannot even tell me a part number or manufacturer. We will have it eventually, but it is not available right now. There are no problems with hard wiring into the ECU. We have done it several times. Like with most things, if installed properly, it will be just fine. It is possible to use male/female spades with heat shrink for easier installation and removal.
Stephanie

[Anon Y Mous]

I don't feel like chopping an ump-teen thousand dollar wiring harness for an ecu.

I'm a big supporter of this item but not if it's not P&P. That's a deal breaker for me.

[Refonbass]

I'm very interested in the XEDE, but will not even consider purchasing one until it is plug and play..

[Captain KRM P5]

I don't feel like chopping an ump-teen thousand dollar wiring harness for an ecu.

I'm a big supporter of this item but not if it's not P&P. That's a deal breaker for me.

say i were to fly down and do the install for you? plus it is ten wires or less to actually need splicing.

I'm very interested in the XEDE, but will not even consider purchasing one until it is plug and play..

that is something that is coming, just not right away

[Anon Y Mous]

It's not the initial install I'm worried about it's the longevity.

If you wanna come down and hang out with your wang out..let me know. You can hand deliver it to me and wire it up.

I'm a smart dude but I failed ASE electrical 4 times. I don't feel like butchering a harness.

[Captain KRM P5]

It's not the initial install I'm worried about it's the longevity.

If you wanna come down and hang out with your wang out..let me know. You can hand deliver it to me and wire it up.

I'm a smart dude but I failed ASE electrical 4 times. I don't feel like butchering a harness.

i have wired in haltechs and microtechs and voltage clamps as well as o2 sensor resistors exposed to the elements without longevity issues. wiring something like this does not require master tech certification whatsoever.

PM or call me and we can discuss me coming down there - i would of course stay and iron out some good maps on top of the install itself.

[Anon Y Mous]

sounds like a plan to me. Let's hash out a date when I get back in town.

[turbofever]

So what parameters does this unit change to yield such an increase in power?

[Captain KRM P5]

it controls a variety of factors - most notably fuel, timing and boost. the mazdaspeed3 and 6 have been found to run very conservative, rich maps which rob them of potential power. much of this is done for emissions control. by making adjustments to the fuel maps and spark timing, as well as increasing boost, you can generate more power per psi of boost at both stock and increased levels.

[quiet desperado]

it controls a variety of factors - most notably fuel, timing and boost. the mazdaspeed3 and 6 have been found to run very conservative, rich maps which rob them of potential power. much of this is done for emissions control. by making adjustments to the fuel maps and spark timing, as well as increasing boost, you can generate more power per psi of boost at both stock and increased levels.

Running rich is for emissions control? Usually the opposite, ain't it? Lean is clean? I read in a number of comments that they run rich "to protect the turbo," though I have no idea what that is based on.

[turbofever]

it controls a variety of factors - most notably fuel, timing and boost. the mazdaspeed3 and 6 have been found to run very conservative, rich maps which rob them of potential power. much of this is done for emissions control. by making adjustments to the fuel maps and spark timing, as well as increasing boost, you can generate more power per psi of boost at both stock and increased levels.
During that 290whp dyno session, what was the boost pressure, total timing, and AFR?

[StephanieT]

Mazda typically runs it ECU maps VERY rich. They call it the built in "safety feature" (like the boost / fuel cut is also) and i have heard it referred to as emissions control too. It is not so much to protect the turbo as it is to protect the engine. Sometimes there is just no explaining what Mazda does. I have seen a speed car fail CARB inspection because it does not run the stock AFR. Instead of running 10:1 it was 12.5:1. Perfect - but not factory setting. :)

Tuning was done at 14 psi. And the AFR was left around 11.0 to 11.5. A little on the rich side. But powerful and safe at the same time.

When you wire something in - just take the time to do it properly and it will last a long time. I promise, it is not hard. Until recently, new injectors got wired in. Butt connectors, heatshink (solder if you are so inclined) and you're good to go. The same method is used for O2 sensor replacements and stuff like that. Chances are the clutch will start to slip before the wiring goes bad.
Stephanie

[Refonbass]

So again, not sound like a broken record but, this unit sometime in the relatively near future WILL be plug and play? Just not the initial units?

[Nutari]

So again, not sound like a broken record but, this unit sometime in the relatively near future WILL be plug and play? Just not the initial units?
yes. Later, around mid to end of january they are hoping to have the harnesess to make the XEDE plung and play. as of right now, its hardwired.

[II-Savy]

Man this sounds better by the minute...it makes me think bagging the MS CAI, Cat back and upgraded IC is a better idea and getting this unit instead.

[redms3gt]

So tuning was a 14psi, does that mean stock is lower than that or are u making more power at the same level. The most I get on a boost gauge in any gear is 13psi max holding. Spikes are higher,15-17 depending of gear. I have tested the gauge and it is spot on. Its measures at the BOV after the intercooler though. It just doesent seem like this car runs the 15.7psi number that the mags have been throwing around. I also noticed that 3rd gear always has a lower boost pressure that 4th,5th,6th. Usually 10-11psi. Will EXED be controlling or upping the boost in 2nd and up, or all gears. I think a nice function would factory boost levels with the DSC on and a full 14psi or whatever is max safe with it off in all gears. That way we could maintain good drivability for rain snow etc city driving, and have a monster on the track ;)

[quiet desperado]

So tuning was a 14psi, does that mean stock is lower than that or are u making more power at the same level. The most I get on a boost gauge in any gear is 13psi max holding. Spikes are higher,15-17 depending of gear. I have tested the gauge and it is spot on. Its measures at the BOV after the intercooler though. It just doesent seem like this car runs the 15.7psi number that the mags have been throwing around. ....

From what I've read about the stock vs. ETS TMIC, the turbo could be putting out 15-16 psi and the charge is down to 13-14 by the time it exits the IC. That's how the ETS adds another 10-15 hp.

[redms3gt]

Mines is always 13 or less not counting spikes. Just wondering how EXED is effecting/contolling the boost per gear vs factory. I have hear the factory intercooler is pretty good and also not so good. One would think as short as the air has to travel pressure loss would be like .5psi or so..

[benzo]

it controls a variety of factors - most notably fuel, timing and boost. the mazdaspeed3 and 6 have been found to run very conservative, rich maps which rob them of potential power. much of this is done for emissions control. by making adjustments to the fuel maps and spark timing, as well as increasing boost, you can generate more power per psi of boost at both stock and increased levels.

Hey Cap, if I have done my home work on the turbo right (using compressor map)....the turbo is pretty close to being peaked out. So this unit will lean it out a little bit, change timing and possible boost levels. My main concern is software and longevity. Will this simply plug in and go? Can I change the timing, fuel and boost if needed at a performance shop. I basicly want my motor to be as reliable as the srt-4 stage upgrades. Thanks!

[shark77]

Hey Cap, if I have done my home work on the turbo right (using compressor map)....the turbo is pretty close to being peaked out. So this unit will lean it out a little bit, change timing and possible boost levels. My main concern is software and longevity. Will this simply plug in and go? Can I change the timing, fuel and boost if needed at a performance shop. I basicly want my motor to be as reliable as the srt-4 stage upgrades. Thanks!

Make sure it's a K04-22 map. As there are many variations of the K04 turbo.

The k04-01 series were putting down ~220-230whp on the 1.8T, but the k04-20 series turbo's were able to run ~265-285whp on the same motor.

So being that the k04 has a pretty wide range of ability, the k04-22 may not be as close to being maxed out as it would appear, when looking at perhaps the k04-01 series map.

[benzo]

Make sure it's a K04-22 map. As there are many variations of the K04 turbo.

The k04-01 series were putting down ~220-230whp on the 1.8T, but the k04-20 series turbo's were able to run ~265-285whp on the same motor.

So being that the k04 has a pretty wide range of ability, the k04-22 may not be as close to being maxed out as it would appear, when looking at perhaps the k04-01 series map.

I was looking at a k04-25 compressor map which is a slightly bigger turbo and with the motor we are running it looks like it runs out of power at about the same rpm range. So the slightly smaller turbo (22) is going to be maxed out for sure. As most reviews/dyno charts show, the power falls drasticly at about 6k rpm, which to me seems like the turbo is out of gas. Maybe I am retarded but I dont understand how we can get more power out of this motor (turbo) without changing the turbo out for a slightly bigger one. I dont know everything about this subject, I am just trying to learn more.

[shark77]

I was looking at a k04-25 compressor map which is a slightly bigger turbo and with the motor we are running it looks like it runs out of power at about the same rpm range. So the slightly smaller turbo (22) is going to be maxed out for sure. As most reviews/dyno charts show, the power falls drasticly at about 6k rpm, which to me seems like the turbo is out of gas. Maybe I am retarded but I dont understand how we can get more power out of this motor (turbo) without changing the turbo out for a slightly bigger one. I dont know everything about this subject, I am just trying to learn more.

I believe all k04-2X series use the same housing, the only difference is the trim.

It will be interesting with an ECU to see if the stock maps are creating the massive drop in power above 6k, or if it is strictly the turbo.

If you look at Cobb's AFR plot, you can see that the a/f ratio go really rich after 5700rpm's. Is this ECU related or hardware related is the question.

http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32452

[Anon Y Mous]

I'll have a 3" catless ATP downpipe next week so we'll see how it affects the turbo's ability to breath up top. I have a feeling it'll be greatly improved.

[Captain KRM P5]

I believe all k04-2X series use the same housing, the only difference is the trim.

It will be interesting with an ECU to see if the stock maps are creating the massive drop in power above 6k, or if it is strictly the turbo.

If you look at Cobb's AFR plot, you can see that the a/f ratio go really rich after 5700rpm's. Is this ECU related or hardware related is the question.

http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32452

we have dynoed a mazdaspeed6 with and without modifications and will say with the utmost confidence that extreme rich conditions under high rpm load are ECU/tuning related.

[Anon Y Mous]

we have dynoed a mazdaspeed6 with and without modifications and will say with the utmost confidence that extreme rich conditions under high rpm load are ECU/tuning related.

from the people I've spoken with at mazda QC that was done in an effort to keep detonation down but it doesn't make any sense.

The whole point of DISI is to lower combustion temps, atomize the fuel mixture better, dissipate more heat and leave less fuel in the combustion chamber before it's needed.

All you do with making it rich up top is stress the injectors and ruin your mileage.

The stock injectors have PLENTY of room for growth if you maintain reasonable AFR's.

[tsunami]

excellent discussion going on here guys keep up the good work...

would it be possible to post an image of the K04-22 map for the rest of us to see or a link? and i don't know how to do the math if it is changed for DI over a normal injection motor your still putting out the same cfm per displacement but its more efficient so does that mean the cfm changes or should it still be the same?

[quiet desperado]

Mines is always 13 or less not counting spikes. Just wondering how EXED is effecting/contolling the boost per gear vs factory. I have hear the factory intercooler is pretty good and also not so good. One would think as short as the air has to travel pressure loss would be like .5psi or so..

Cobb said that it does a good job of cooling. CPE in testing their FMIC confirms this but notes that the stock TMIC loses as much as 3 psi.
They also say 1-2 psi pressure loss is normal.

If anyone is interested, there is a ton of very interesting information from CPE about cooling, pressure loss, and the relationship b/t them on Mazda 6 Club in post #251 of "CPE product updates, Front mount intercooler and tuning package -- 10/11/06" thread in the Mazdaspeed6 > Speed6 Engine/Drivetrain section.

[ZoomVT]

im subbing cause this is a very good discussion.

[Captain KRM P5]

an XEDE has been on the mazdaspeed3 now for month. The car throws no CEL codes, idles and drives perfectly and makes excellent power through the RPM range. the XEDE also reads and controls MAP sensor signals as well. pics will be posted soon.

[tsunami]

yeah a 3psi pressure loss through an intercooler to me doesn't seem that bad from the reading i have done (corky bells bible, and the whole garrett site) its not the most efficient out there but for stock its reasonable.... as long as the air coming out the other end is denser (cooler) then its doing a reasonable job with that pressure loss....

[Anon Y Mous]

any chance we can discard the MAF and run MAP only with this?

any word yet about the possibility of AWD control with this? I'd like something to transfer 50-85% of the power to my rear wheels! Nothing like seeing a RWD burnout in a mazda6.

[tsunami]

uhhh you will need a whole new drivetrain to put power to your rear wheels.. and b/c a mazda6 and mazda3 don't share the same frame you can't just switch them over.... so you would have to custom make something or re-engineer the 6 drive line... either way your looking at some serious $$

[Captain KRM P5]

uhhh you will need a whole new drivetrain to put power to your rear wheels.. and b/c a mazda6 and mazda3 don't share the same frame you can't just switch them over.... so you would have to custom make something or re-engineer the 6 drive line... either way your looking at some serious $$

he owns a mazdaspeed6 actually

[tsunami]

oh lol... fill out your profile man!!!!! i was wondering how the hell you could go from asking about maf/map control to putting awd control in a ms3... phew makes so much more sense now...

[Captain KRM P5]

any chance we can discard the MAF and run MAP only with this?

any word yet about the possibility of AWD control with this? I'd like something to transfer 50-85% of the power to my rear wheels! Nothing like seeing a RWD burnout in a mazda6.

No. The Xede runs off of particular stock sensors. With the exception of the 1.6L Miata, everything runs off of the MAF & o2 sensor. It is a more accurate signal for flow and temp on this car. The MAF located in the MS3 is not restrictive in any way. It is bolted to a flange on the air tube. It is probably the best MAF meter used by Mazda. The reason the MS3 uses the MAP is because the stock ECU makes corrections in fueling based off it. So in order to control the ECU well enough (and to make enough power), it is necessary to control both MAF and MAP signals.

If a MAP sensor is used by itself it is necessary to use a MAT (manifold air temp) sensor as well.

[Anon Y Mous]

I see. I guess I could've answered my own question if I had thought about it long enough. The reason I wanted to ditch the MAF was to keep it from maxing out like the MSPs do. This own't be an issue if the XEDE is handling fuel/timing/boost duties anyway.

[dread]

so once xede gets the correct harness would I be able to just unplug this thing when I go to the dealer. Would they be able to trace it if they read the ecu.

[Captain KRM P5]

wired in or plugged in the dealer would not have a clue this was there. unlike other systems this does not "hard write" new code to the ECU itself.

[benzo]

So the xede is a pretty reliable piece of equiptment then?

[Captain KRM P5]

So the xede is a pretty reliable piece of equiptment then?

absolutely, would not sell it to the community in good conscience otherwise

[got_titan]

still shooting for end of jan on plug n play??

[Captain KRM P5]

still shooting for end of jan on plug n play??

as soon as mazda or an electronics company can supply BEGi with the harnesses it will be PnP.

[Pololo_MS3]

I had a 1.6L Miata with a Greddy turbo but will ALL the electronics from Flyin Miata(Link ECU, MAT, MAP sensor, Keypad) :) I know what you guys mean about "take your time" to hook up all your connections. My car was running 12 PSI at all times and I never had an issue with the car breaking down. Not only did I solder every single ballast resistor + connectors but I also cramped them while adding anti-static and moisture resistant covers. Overall this turbo install took me about 120 man hours :)

The way I see it is: "reliability of your car is directly proportional to the level of detail"

I see the XEDE no different from the Link ECU, except that it is a step between a FULL programmable ECU and a piggyback ECU.

I also waited and waited for the COBB to "crack" the RX8 ECU but once my RX8 got totalled, I decided to get me the MS3 and I am so happy to see these tuners working in the MS3.

I might stop at BEGI one of these days and see how this "P&P" can be achieved.

Carlos
ps: My first post on this forum but been with Mazdas for quite some time :)

[Nutari]

I had a 1.6L Miata with a Greddy turbo but will ALL the electronics from Flyin Miata(Link ECU, MAT, MAP sensor, Keypad) :) I know what you guys mean about "take your time" to hook up all your connections. My car was running 12 PSI at all times and I never had an issue with the car breaking down. Not only did I solder every single ballast resistor + connectors but I also cramped them while adding anti-static and moisture resistant covers. Overall this turbo install took me about 120 man hours :)

The way I see it is: "reliability of your car is directly proportional to the level of detail"

I see the XEDE no different from the Link ECU, except that it is a step between a FULL programmable ECU and a piggyback ECU.

I also waited and waited for the COBB to "crack" the RX8 ECU but once my RX8 got totalled, I decided to get me the MS3 and I am so happy to see these tuners working in the MS3.

I might stop at BEGI one of these days and see how this "P&P" can be achieved.

Carlos
ps: My first post on this forum but been with Mazdas for quite some time :)
Thats the way I see it. If you are a true enthusiast, you will take the time to do things the right way.

The only thing from stopping BEGi from making the XEDE plug and play is a lack of parts. No one has the harnesses they need.

[benzo]

The way I see it is: "reliability of your car is directly proportional to the level of detail"

I see the XEDE no different from the Link ECU, except that it is a step between a FULL programmable ECU and a piggyback ECU.



I cant agree more with you. My brother has a fully built truck with all the goodies and I see what kind of problems he has with his. He has blown the motor 2 times. Yeah that truck will do the quarter in about 11, the truck weights in at about 5k lbs. Thats movin if you ask me. But the issue is reliablity. I really dont want to go the full programmable or turbo upgrades cause then you will have to go that route. So the main question is what is the level of detail to this piggyback? I can run 290whp without having any issues? If so count me in. Is there some sort of option we have if we want to upgrade the turbo to a slightly bigger one and still keep this piggyback control unit?

[Captain KRM P5]

I cant agree more with you. My brother has a fully built truck with all the goodies and I see what kind of problems he has with his. He has blown the motor 2 times. Yeah that truck will do the quarter in about 11, the truck weights in at about 5k lbs. Thats movin if you ask me. But the issue is reliablity. I really dont want to go the full programmable or turbo upgrades cause then you will have to go that route. So the main question is what is the level of detail to this piggyback? I can run 290whp without having any issues? If so count me in. Is there some sort of option we have if we want to upgrade the turbo to a slightly bigger one and still keep this piggyback control unit?


It has run 290 rwhp for one month with no issues. Owner of the car posts on mazda 3 forums regularly. In fact, his wife just sold the corvette to drive this one. The more cars we dyno, the more maps we have. Eventually we will have maps for all aftermarket parts. The Xede on this application still has lots of room to grow. So any aftermarket upgrade can easily be supported with the Xede. Its a misnomer of sorts to refer to this as strictly a 'piggyback' system due to its range of tunability compared to some less capable systems saddled with that title. The XEDE will have no problem handling a larger turbo.

[benzo]

So if I go with the xede and lets say further down the road i want that turbo kit that is avaliable all i have to do is reprogram the xede with some new software and away we go. The next question is how do i do the download. do i have to do dyno tuning or is something i download from xede and put it into the xede and away we go again with having fun? Sorry for all the crazy questions, I just need some instructions on how this stuff works.

[Anon Y Mous]

hopefully some early adaptors like 4drhotrod and myself will have tuning made for mods. These files will be available online for download. Then it's just a matter of uploading them to your xede.

very simple.

[4DRHTRD]

I can't tell you had bad I need this YESTERDAY. With the ATP kit and my custom IC I'm getting fuel cut, only way to fix it is to go back to my stock IC and lose 3 PSI due to the core efficiency difference. This fixes the fuel cut but I'm sure kills a ton of power.

[Anon Y Mous]

eh, probably not a "ton" of power but a noticeable amount I'm sure.

The boost limiter is my biggest complaint and the XEDE will more than handle it. The stock turbo is good for 20-23psi which should be a healthy bump over the stock 16psi. With my "more than adequate" TMIC from p-garage I'll be good to go with the stock turbo for a while.

[benzo]

eh, probably not a "ton" of power but a noticeable amount I'm sure.

The boost limiter is my biggest complaint and the XEDE will more than handle it. The stock turbo is good for 20-23psi which should be a healthy bump over the stock 16psi. With my "more than adequate" TMIC from p-garage I'll be good to go with the stock turbo for a while.

That is kind of the route i want to go with my car. I want to some sort of ic upgrade, xede(only if it is nice and reliable with moderate hp gains) and maybe atp turbo upgrade sometime down the road.

[Anon Y Mous]

the XEDE is a very competent EMS. I'm sure you will be very happy going this route.

what I'm doing is buying the TMIC, 3" catless ATP DP and intake piping for now....the XEDE will control it and when I get bored with 23psi and bolt-ons then I'll just buy the $1600 turbo upgrade since I'll have the rest of the kit already.

[StephanieT]

So if I go with the xede and lets say further down the road i want that turbo kit that is avaliable all i have to do is reprogram the xede with some new software and away we go.
The software stays the same - Xmap. The maps in the Xede will change. This particular application has four maps, boost, MAF, Timing, and MAP sensor adjustments. If you add on a new part, you can tune it yourself. A wideband would be a handy tool, or any dyno tuner could do it. All you do is modify adjustments in the map to compensate, ie. add fuel, take out fuel, pull timing, reduce or increase boost. Once done save the map, upload it to the Xede and Burn it to the Xede. Then your done.

The next question is how do i do the download. do i have to do dyno tuning or is something i download from xede and put it into the xede and away we go again with having fun? Sorry for all the crazy questions, I just need some instructions on how this stuff works.
To download off of the Xede - F8 download and show maps. Then the latest maps burned to the Xede will come up on the screen. As long as the car is running, all changes you make are in 'real time' and become effective immediately. Once done save the map, upload it to the Xede and Burn it to the Xede.

You can visit the Xede website for a how to tuning guide. You could also download xmap software and play with it some.
http://www.xede.com.au/software.php
Stephanie

[Anon Y Mous]

a girl on a car forum telling guys how to tune their EMS....very erotic. Now if your tongue touches your nose I'll marry you.

[benzo]

a girl on a car forum telling guys how to tune their EMS....very erotic. Now if your tongue touches your nose I'll marry you.

Once again, cant agree more with you on that one. I wish my g/f was into cars!!!!

[Pololo_MS3]

So bottom line,

Since this is a step "forward" from a current piggyback, can you datalog different maps in real time ala FM Link ECU?

With the Miata, I used to do all my tuning in third and fourth gear making sure I went through all the zones in the Fuel and Ignition maps, then once I had my results, I will change them in the zones that either needed more timing, more fuel and/or other parameters such as your threashold boost and how knock sensor readings

BTW, every car is different so a "base map" is just that, a base map(very conservative) and I believe to get full advantage of this XEDE someone should "invest" in a dyno tuning ($85) provided they are able to measure AFR from the tailpipe and of course if you want to get very serious, a wideband O2 sensor is a MUST

Was the "guinea pig" tested with a Wideband O2 sensor or the tailpipe AFR from the dyno? What about the knock sensor? Since you were "just" tuning due to the richness of AFR, I believe the 1st and 2nd gear limiting factors are still there

This is indeed good news! :)

Keep up the good work

Carlos

[StephanieT]

a girl on a car forum telling guys how to tune their EMS....very erotic. Now if your tongue touches your nose I'll marry you.
Sorry, no luck. :) I guess my 'image' would be probably be destroyed if I mentioned that I drive a F350 4WD? (shocked) j/k.. The Miata is the daily driver and the truck is for when the mood strikes. The Miata is turbo'd, alas the poor truck is not.
Stephanie

[StephanieT]

So bottom line, Since this is a step "forward" from a current piggyback, can you datalog different maps in real time ala FM Link ECU?
Yes, the Xede does data log and sends it to an excel file. Unfortunately, I have never tuned an Link so I do not know exactly what it data logs.

With the Miata, I used to do all my tuning in third and fourth gear making sure I went through all the zones in the Fuel and Ignition maps, then once I had my results, I will change them in the zones that either needed more timing, more fuel and/or other parameters such as your threashold boost and how knock sensor readings
It is the same principle for the MS3. However, tuning is done in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear since it is a 6 speed.

BTW, every car is different so a "base map" is just that, a base map(very conservative) and I believe to get full advantage of this XEDE someone should "invest" in a dyno tuning ($85) provided they are able to measure AFR from the tailpipe and of course if you want to get very serious, a wideband O2 sensor is a MUST
The base map is conservative at 288 rwhp (uncorrected). The wideband is always a good idea, but not needed.

Was the "guinea pig" tested with a Wideband O2 sensor or the tailpipe AFR from the dyno? What about the knock sensor? Since you were "just" tuning due to the richness of AFR, I believe the 1st and 2nd gear limiting factors are still there
The car was tested logging from the stock wideband sensor and also AFR from the tailpipe while on the dyno. Knock is listen for via microphone, and while street testing. Tuning is also done at certain boost levels too. The wastegate solenoid is controlled electronically based on rpm and load value. I still need to check on first and second gear, the car comes back for more mods in a week or so.

This is indeed good news!
Keep up the good work
Thank you! I hope everyone had a good holiday season. Happy New Year!
Stephanie

[quiet desperado]

Yes, the Xede does data log and sends it to an excel file. ....

The car was tested logging from the stock wideband sensor and also AFR from the tailpipe while on the dyno. Knock is listen for via microphone, and while street testing. ....


Thank you! I hope everyone had a good holiday season. Happy New Year!
Stephanie

That must take a lot of experience. Still, it makes me wonder about the long term effects of increasing allowed knock as a way of making more power. But if you want to play, you're probably gonna pay in one way or another. Some will be right now (cash) and some will be down the road (decreased engine life).

Anyway, thanks for being on here, Stephanie. We all really appreciate when you guys share info with us. Happy New Year to you and the folks at BEGI!

[Pololo_MS3]

The Knock Sensor is just a microphone that is plugged into the block (via a connector) that listens for knock and then retards timing to avoid the harmful detonation.

I didn't know that MS3 has a wideband O2. I thought it has the common Narrow type O2.

It seems that you are able to datalog with a serial port (USB) through a laptop and this way change the parameters as needed. However, if these "numbers" are not stored in RAM (ECU memory) then how could these numbers change and still be undetected by a scanner when brought back into the dealer?

Guess I need to study as to how XEDE works. If the ECU parameters don't get changed, then this is still a fancy piggyback(no harm intended by this BTW).

A trip to BEGI is in order :) especially since I live in Austin. Perhaps I'll get a better idea of how this is being developed.

Funny, last night I found myself wanting more as my right foot was all the way down in the accelerator and there was no more travel in the pedal. At that point, I felt that my RX8 had more power.... lol

Carlos

[Anon Y Mous]

Ken / stephanie, does the XEDE have the ability to auto-tune to a set AFR based on an auxillary input given by a WIDEBAND o2?? That's a feature I like about the e-manage ultimate and AEM on other cars.

It woul dbe nice for someone on the stock turbo with bolt-ons to be able to set their AFR and ride.

[StephanieT]

We used these nifty little headphones with a microphone laid in the engine bay so that it was easier to hear. It looks silly sitting there with headphones on, but it works.

We recommend the Radio Shack Serial/USB connector is a serial port is not available.

The ecu signals going in are modified, however still within the "normal range" the ECU will allow without throwing a code. So until a code pops up, you would never know it is there. There is not very much changed at idle on this map. For the most part it is really close to stock. So unless the dealer tech. goes out for a joyride and/or sees the unit, he will never know it is there. The Mazda stock ECU maps are not changed. The Xede just tells it to look in a different place on the stock map based on the "adjusted" signal coming in. If I have just totally confused you, sorry, give me a call and I can explain how it works better over the phone.

You live in Austin and have not been down to visit???? (poke) The Tejas Miata club comes down regularly to visit. :)
Stephanie

[StephanieT]

Ken / stephanie, does the XEDE have the ability to auto-tune to a set AFR based on an auxillary input given by a WIDEBAND o2?? That's a feature I like about the e-manage ultimate and AEM on other cars.

It would Be nice for someone on the stock turbo with bolt-ons to be able to set their AFR and ride.
Yes it does. We are some tuning with that set up this week. Technically, it is not an auto tune like the emanage. It has an additional map set up that makes more fueling corrections based on the wideband signal.
Stephanie

[Pololo_MS3]

You live in Austin and have not been down to visit???? (poke) The Tejas Miata club comes down regularly to visit. :)
Stephanie

I just moved here (3 months ago) from CA. After 3 weeks of being here, my RX8 got totalled (sandwiched) by 2 TX trucks!! :(

I might join the Miata club here as I don't see a need to join the Rotary club here. On top of this, I MISS my Turbo'd Miata and will be looking for one in the future :) (nothing feels as good as power oversteering with a RWD car) :)

Will TTYL, :)

Carlos

[StephanieT]

So bottom line,
I believe the 1st and 2nd gear limiting factors are still there
Not anymore. :)
Stephanie

[DeepBlue]

Amen to that.

Is there great torque steer now when you get on it compared to before?

Art

[benzo]

Torque steer is the nature of the beast. Learn to deal with it, in my eyes. With all these different map talks and changing them with mods is getting me confused. I will have to call and talk to really understand.

[redms3gt]

Will exede remove boost reduction in regards to steering angle. Might give more tq steer but this thing really bogs out in the slowspeed turns.

[djdanny5000]

why is everyone so damn concerned about tq steer i mean look at the stupid srt-4 aren't they front wheel drive as well and those guys are pushng alot of power

[Captain KRM P5]

The XEDE COMPLETELY controls boost from the time you start the car to the time you shut if off. It allows you to make the same boost in second and third gear that you do in fifth.

[II-Savy]

The XEDE COMPLETELY controls boost from the time you start the car to the time you shut if off. It allows you to make the same boost in second and third gear that you do in fifth.

Man now I'm thinking bag the exhaust and CAI and just get this...
Seems like this is all you need. Plug it in forget about it. Game over.

I notice you didn't say full boost in first...which actually seems smart.

[quiet desperado]

Man now I'm thinking bag the exhaust and CAI and just get this...
Seems like this is all you need. Plug it in forget about it. Game over.

I notice you didn't say full boost in first...which actually seems smart.

Yeah, I noticed that also. Stephanie doesn't mention anything about boost in 1st, either. I think it makes good sense to limit boost in 1st given the wheelhop it would probably yield, but can we get a clarification?

[redms3gt]

why is everyone so damn concerned about tq steer i mean look at the stupid srt-4 aren't they front wheel drive as well and those guys are pushng alot of power


I am more concerned about full power and could care less about tq steer. From the new dyno sheet I just saw from Tru-boost over at the other forum this this is dynoing 250 and 280tw at the wheels stock on a dyno jet. Thats like a srt4 stge 2 without the rice.(shocked) On another note the other day I was full on in third gear and crested a slight hill. Tq was strong enough that it almost pulled me into the curb. gotta be carful.

[benzo]

The reliablity thing gets me a little bit. I need to know that if i run this unit I will be able to get 50,000 miles on motor without any problems.

[Nutari]

We need a speed 3 volunteer!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123657093

its to get a harness made for the XEDE. The person who volunteers gets $100 off an XEDE unit. Not to mention making the XEDE Plug and Play for everyone!

[WTF MATE]

We need a speed 3 volunteer!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123657093

its to get a harness made for the XEDE. The person who volunteers gets $100 off an XEDE unit. Not to mention making the XEDE Plug and Play for everyone!
If they want to pay for my gas out there and 100 off, I'd think about coming out there. Also does that include a free install and setup:)

[Frosty]

Nice :). If it was in houston i'd be there right now. Hopefully someone from Dallas will take advantage of this.

[Nutari]

If they want to pay for my gas out there and 100 off, I'd think about coming out there. Also does that include a free install and setup:)
The $100 should more than cover your gas.

By doing this, you are making the XEDE plug and play. I really don't see why you would need to have it installed for you.

Setup? It comes preloaded with the map you need to get you too 288WHP from stock.

[benzo]

Damn for sh*ts sake. I would drive there if I could just so I can help the community of MS3er's. There has to be a place in Chicago that can look at my ECU and offer me that same deal?

[Nutari]

Damn for sh*ts sake. I would drive there if I could just so I can help the community of MS3er's. There has to be a place in Chicago that can look at my ECU and offer me that same deal?
I know and so would I. Some people aren't just satisfied with that though.

[Captain KRM P5]

Damn for sh*ts sake. I would drive there if I could just so I can help the community of MS3er's. There has to be a place in Chicago that can look at my ECU and offer me that same deal?

i would install and tune the XEDE for you since you are local to me. i would wire it in so that it could be easily removed without fear of warranty reprisal.

[dread]

I wish you lived in jersey captain

[WTF MATE]

The $100 should more than cover your gas.

By doing this, you are making the XEDE plug and play. I really don't see why you would need to have it installed for you.

Setup? It comes preloaded with the map you need to get you too 288WHP from stock.
true true, i just figured i'd try for a little more. I'll think about it this week. When r u looking for someone to come down? Also having it installed would be nice considering my hand is broken and it would be kinda hard to do myself right now.

[benzo]

i would install and tune the XEDE for you since you are local to me. i would wire it in so that it could be easily removed without fear of warranty reprisal.

Sorry but the only way I would install one would be with the piggy back. Once that comes out, you can count on my contacting you about tuning it properly so i dont blow my motor up. I need someone to tune it who has a clue to what they are doing. I dont want some guy who is learning on my car. I need this thing to run everyday and get to and from work without issues. And from the sounds of things YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Which is nice. lol.
Or I did talk to the dealership about piggyback units. He said he is a fan of the stuff. When it comes to warranty....there will be no problem until they can pin point the cause of failure to the unit itself. So I say install it and see what happens. RIGHT?

[Captain KRM P5]

I wish you lived in jersey captain

if you are willing to do a wire-in setup i have a contact out there who does work for me who will be willing to do the install and tuning. let me know if interested and we can work out a discount.

[Nutari]

Sorry folks. We found our two volunteers. Shouldn't be too long now. XEDE will be plug and GO!

[quiet desperado]

The $100 should more than cover your gas.

.....

From Panama City? N/M, I see there's one in FL, too. I figured he was in the service stationed in Panama or something.

[flyrevs]

Yeah, I noticed that also. Stephanie doesn't mention anything about boost in 1st, either. I think it makes good sense to limit boost in 1st given the wheelhop it would probably yield, but can we get a clarification?
1) Yes, could someone pls. verify is the torque limitation removed in ALL gears ?
2) Since there is more than enough torque to spin the wheels on dry pavement in 1st and 2nd isn't the torque limit from the ecu beneficial in these gears?
3) How about traction control, does the XEDE effect this also?
4) Also would the CAI be a waste of $$$ with the XEDE or would you see an additional 10 HP or so?
Thanks - great info!(rtfm)

[Nutari]

Yes, could someone pls. verify is the torque limitation removed in ALL gears ?
Since there is more than enough torque to spin the wheels on dry pavement in 1st and 2nd isn't the torque limit from the ecu beneficial in these gears?
How about traction control, does the XEDE effect this also?
Thanks - great info!(rtfm)
Yes, we confirmed it earlier. NO limits whatsoever.

You have total control of boost.

[jacen]

Yes, we confirmed it earlier. NO limits whatsoever.

You have total control of boost.

Could I choose to limit 1st and 2nd gear? Can I choose a different limit for 1st than I chose for 2nd?
Can the Emergency Brake Assist be tuned down? It is too touchy for me.

[Nutari]

Could I choose to limit 1st and 2nd gear? Can I choose a different limit for 1st than I chose for 2nd?
Can the Emergency Brake Assist be tuned down? It is too touchy for me.
Once again, you have TOTAL control over how much boost the turbo puts out.


This will not control the EBC.

[jacen]

cool, thanks (drive)

[flyrevs]

Once again, you have TOTAL control over how much boost the turbo puts out.


This will not control the EBC.

Still a bit confused.....

So you are saying you could have for example 8 lbs of max boost in first, 10 lbs of max boost in second, 12 lbs of max boost in third etc.

I still don't see how the XEDE can vary the boost from gear to gear. How does it know what gear you are in ? Doesn't it just know engine RPM?
Thanks in advance for explaining this.

[Nutari]

We now have XEDE boost control working in both absolute
and intercept modes. In absolute mode, you simply input
your desired wastegate duty cycles as a function of load and RPM and
your factory boost control hardware does the rest.



http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/map4.gif

In intercept mode, instead of inputting actual duty cycle values, you input offset to stock. For example, if you want 14.8% more boost , you simply put "14.8%" in the desired cells in your boost map.

http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/map4offset.gif

In either mode, you have the ability to run a RPM-dependant boost profile of your choice. This is far superior to using a stand-alone boost controller,
most of which are only capable of holding one boost level all the way
up to redline. Also, the boost control logic in the XEDE greatly
improves both low RPM and partial-throttle boost response

[flyrevs]

In either mode, you have the ability to run a RPM-dependant boost profile of your choice. This is far superior to using a stand-alone boost controller,
most of which are only capable of holding one boost level all the way
up to redline. Also, the boost control logic in the XEDE greatly
improves both low RPM and partial-throttle boost response
Ok so now I understand, boost is purely RPM dependent (XEDE does not know or care which gear you are in). This means the torque manipulation in 1st, 2nd & 3rd from the stock ecu are gone.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.......(drive):)

Oh yea, what determines if it's running in absolute or intersept mode ? Is there a switch or is this a software setting?

[II-Savy]

We now have XEDE boost control working in both absolute
and intercept modes. In absolute mode, you simply input
your desired wastegate duty cycles as a function of load and RPM and
your factory boost control hardware does the rest.



http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/map4.gif

In intercept mode, instead of inputting actual duty cycle values, you input offset to stock. For example, if you want 14.8% more boost , you simply put "14.8%" in the desired cells in your boost map.

http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/map4offset.gif

In either mode, you have the ability to run a RPM-dependant boost profile of your choice. This is far superior to using a stand-alone boost controller,
most of which are only capable of holding one boost level all the way
up to redline. Also, the boost control logic in the XEDE greatly
improves both low RPM and partial-throttle boost response


Holy shit, this is way cool!(first)

[Nutari]

Ok so now I understand, boost is purely RPM dependent (XEDE does not know or care which gear you are in). This means the torque manipulation in 1st, 2nd & 3rd from the stock ecu are gone.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.......(drive):)

Oh yea, what determines if it's running in absolute or intersept mode ? Is there a switch or is this a software setting?
software.

Btw.. I just got back from my test run. Watch for the write up.


:)

the POWER is there folks. Its not just numbers.

[Pololo_MS3]

software.

Btw.. I just got back from my test run. Watch for the write up.


:)

the POWER is there folks. Its not just numbers.

So where is the review?? About time don't you think? :)

Carlos

[tru-boost]

eh, probably not a "ton" of power but a noticeable amount I'm sure.

The boost limiter is my biggest complaint and the XEDE will more than handle it. The stock turbo is good for 20-23psi which should be a healthy bump over the stock 16psi. With my "more than adequate" TMIC from p-garage I'll be good to go with the stock turbo for a while.
i dont know where you heard that out stock tiny little k04 turbo can produce 20-23psi ?! you could take the WG off the car and it wouldnt spool that high !! 16psi at redline is gonna be tops. sure there will be people dumb enough to try to push it further, but all you will get is hot HP robbing air.

[Anon Y Mous]

eh, tell that to my local VW crew who consistantly run the K04's at 23psi (spikes) and settle to 20psi. Sure it's hotter air but thats what I've got a larger TMIC for.

[4DRHTRD]

eh, tell that to my local VW crew who consistantly run the K04's at 23psi (spikes) and settle to 20psi. Sure it's hotter air but thats what I've got a larger TMIC for.
Make sure you run that 23 PSI on the dyno for us and video tape it!!!

[tru-boost]

eh, tell that to my local VW crew who consistantly run the K04's at 23psi (spikes) and settle to 20psi. Sure it's hotter air but thats what I've got a larger TMIC for.
it may be a larger trim k04, cuz this one would not do that..i promise !!
you would have more power with 16-17 psi than with 20-23.
even an IC upgrade wont take care of the EXTRA 100 DEGREES over working that turbo would create. just a fair warning, do what you want.

[Anon Y Mous]

ya'lls professional advice is noted

{click click} delete.

[4DRHTRD]

ya'lls professional advice is noted

{click click} delete.
You're smaaaaaat
(poke)

[Nutari]

aw crap.


http://www.islandracer.com/bigisland.htm


drags canceled due to rain.

http://www.islandracer.com/bigisland_bihra.htm

next one is the 20th. :(

[jacen]

http://www.vishnutuning.com/images/map4.gif



Now i understand completely. Thanks for the table!

[Nutari]

Now i understand completely. Thanks for the table!
Thats just one example.

You can adjust based on engineload/RPM's etc.

[matsuda]

You can adjust based on engineload/RPM's etc.
I have 2 questions:

1) When making user adjustments, how does one know when the onset of detonation is reached? Obviously this is very important to know unless one wants to damage their engine.

2) Exactly which ECU signals (input or output) are being modified or monitored by the XEDE?

[quiet desperado]

I have 2 questions:

1) When making user adjustments, how does one know when the onset of detonation is reached? Obviously this is very important to know unless one wants to damage their engine.

....

BEGI uses a microphone and headphones.

[matsuda]

BEGI uses a microphone and headphones.
Thank you but I wasn't asking how BEGI does it.

Nutari makes a big deal about end users being able to tune the car themselves. Without knowing when detonation occurs, it could potentially be dangerous.

[Nutari]

I have 2 questions:

1) When making user adjustments, how does one know when the onset of detonation is reached? Obviously this is very important to know unless one wants to damage their engine.

2) Eaxctly which ECU signals (input or output) are being modified or monitored by the XEDE?
Obviously, you should have some knowledge before making ANY adjustments to your car.

[matsuda]

Obviously, you should have some knowledge before making ANY adjustments to your car.
Agreed.
Please answer my questions. If you don't know the answers, then say so.

[Nutari]

Thank you but I wasn't asking how BEGI does it.

Nutari makes a big deal about end users being able to tune the car themselves. Without knowing when detonation occurs, it could potentially be dangerous.
Do you have a personal problem with me?

1. Detonation is audible. As said before, BEGi uses a microphone for better accuracy. You as a person should be able to hear knock/ping.

2. MAP, MAF, Timing and boost are altered.

Any other questions?

[StephanieT]

Without knowing when detonation occurs, it could potentially be dangerous.
Each car will detonate at a different level, rpm or boost pressure. Octane plays a big factor in this as well. The detonation should be audible.

A car should also be tuned with a "safety margin" for this reason. ie. leave the AFR about 12:1.
Stephanie

[matsuda]

Do you have a personal problem with me?

1. Detonation is audible. As said before, BEGi uses a microphone for better accuracy. You as a person should be able to hear knock/ping.

2. MAP, MAF, Timing and boost are altered.

Any other questions?
I don't have a personal problem with you. However, I cannot understand why you refused to answer my simple questions.

We all know that detonation can be audible. I was asking you have a suggested method to detect the onset of detonation. In other words, is the XEDE tied in to the knock sensor? As you well know, mild detonation may not be audible (a knock sensor will detect detonation before it is audible).

[flyrevs]

http://www.turboxs.com/uploaded_images/343.jpg

from Turbo XS:
"So how do you KNOW that you are knocking BEFORE it's too late? The TurboXS KnockLite (TM) will detect even minor, inaudible detonation and flash the multicolored LED to alert you to the knock so that you can do something about it before it's too late. The KnockLite is a must-have product for anyone that is modifying their engine for more power. The KnockLite wires into either your factory knock sensor or into separate knock sensor (sold separately) that is mounted to your engine block."
$130 bucks
and No I'm not affiliated at all with Turbo XS in any way

Looks sweet, however I have no experience tuning an engine.
Just thought of it cuz of the discussion.

[quiet desperado]

I don't have a personal problem with you. However, I cannot understand why you refused to answer my simple questions.

We all know that detonation can be audible. I was asking you have a suggested method to detect the onset of detonation. In other words, is the XEDE tied in to the knock sensor? As you well know, mild detonation may not be audible (a knock sensor will detect detonation before it is audible).

Sounds like you want to be spoonfed. If an experienced tuner like BEGI uses a microphone, then the Xede is obviously not tied into the knock sensor. Why would they go through the hassle if they could just get knock sensor data from the Xede? Presumably, when audible knock is detected adjustments are made to leave a margin of safety for inaudible knock.

Sounds like they ought to get one of those lights, though.

[matsuda]

Sounds like you want to be spoonfed. If an experienced tuner like BEGI uses a microphone, then the Xede is obviously not tied into the knock sensor. Why would they go through the hassle if they could just get knock sensor data from the Xede?
Yes, that is why I asked Nutari "Exactly which ECU signals (input or output) are being modified or monitored by the XEDE?"

[Nutari]

Yes, that is why I asked Nutari "Exactly which ECU signals (input or output) are being modified or monitored by the XEDE?"
I answered you. Any other questions?

[LinuxRacr]

Each car will detonate at a different level, rpm or boost pressure. Octane plays a big factor in this as well. The detonation should be audible.

A car should also be tuned with a "safety margin" for this reason. ie. leave the AFR about 12:1.
Stephanie

Stephanie! Welcome to these forums. This is Patrick, from DFW. Glad to see BEGI bringing something to the Mazda!! I remeber the days of the 1st BEGI kit for the Protege, and how great it worked. Keep it up!

[StephanieT]

Hi Patrick!!!

(drinks)
Stephanie

[aroz27]

Each car will detonate at a different level, rpm or boost pressure. Octane plays a big factor in this as well. The detonation should be audible.

A car should also be tuned with a "safety margin" for this reason. ie. leave the AFR about 12:1.
Stephanie

Stephanie, are any special considerations being made for Direct Injection? I was under the impression that DI was localized rich, but overall lean. Is the "safety margin" different for this application?

Adam

[4DRHTRD]

Stephanie, are any special considerations being made for Direct Injection? I was under the impression that DI was localized rich, but overall lean. Is the "safety margin" different for this application?

Adam
Well if the tailpipe is seeing an AFR that would be a true AFR in my opinion....
:)

[aroz27]

Sorry, to clarify what I'm saying. You're tuning as lean as possible without knocking, then scaling back for a little safety blanket. I'm just wondering whether that '12:1' AFR saftey margin is being applied to the baseline tune.

If I'm remembering DI correctly, you can run a leaner mixture. So while 12:1 remains a good reccommendation for standard SI engines, theoretically you're not taking advantage of the DI technology. I'm not a DI expert by any means, I'm just wondering if anything will be approached differently with this engine technology.

[aroz27]

Well if the tailpipe is seeing an AFR that would be a true AFR in my opinion....
:)


And doesn't the cat alter the AFR reading slightly? So maybe the tail pipe isn't really the true AFR (wink)

[Captain KRM P5]

And doesn't the cat alter the AFR reading slightly? So maybe the tail pipe isn't really the true AFR (wink)

this is a good question. in my experience the difference is marginal though it may vary from car to car. the best method of checking your AFR is to get your reading about 36 inches downstream from the exhaust source, ex - weld in a bung to your exhaust and install your wideband sensor there.

Sorry, to clarify what I'm saying. You're tuning as lean as possible without knocking, then scaling back for a little safety blanket. I'm just wondering whether that '12:1' AFR saftey margin is being applied to the baseline tune.

If I'm remembering DI correctly, you can run a leaner mixture. So while 12:1 remains a good reccommendation for standard SI engines, theoretically you're not taking advantage of the DI technology. I'm not a DI expert by any means, I'm just wondering if anything will be approached differently with this engine technology.

it is not as easy to detonate or when detonation occurs as easy to damage the engine on DI as it will occur after top dead center on the rotation.

[redms3gt]

Thinking about the way DSI works, the fuel isnt in there to detonatnate till the last second. Wouldnt this prevent some of the possability of DETO. Is the air fully compressed before the fuel added? or is it added just before..Could be bulitproof. Would be nice. Is 12/1 is on the lean side for a normal turbo motor? I thought most car tuned for 11-11.5 for a margin of safety.

[Captain KRM P5]

Thinking about the way DSI works, the fuel isnt in there to detonatnate till the last second. Wouldnt this prevent some of the possability of DETO. Is the air fully compressed before the fuel added? or is it added just before..Could be bulitproof. Would be nice. Is 12/1 is on the lean side for a normal turbo motor? I thought most car tuned for 11-11.5 for a margin of safety.

not bulletproof i would say, but you are on the right track. 12 to 1 is where you typically make the most power without compromising longevity. running 11 to 1 is a nice cushion especially for stock engine vehicles.

[SPEEDGuy]

this is a good question. in my experience the difference is marginal though it may vary from car to car. the best method of checking your AFR is to get your reading about 36 inches downstream from the exhaust source, ex - weld in a bung to your exhaust and install your wideband sensor there.



it is not as easy to detonate or when detonation occurs as easy to damage the engine on DI as it will occur after top dead center on the rotation.


Fuel is only injected during the intake stroke under wide open throttle on a direct injection engine. Fuel is injected during the compression stroke only during lean-cruise mode. So, detonation is just as dangerous in this direct injection engine as it is in any other traditional port injection engine.

[Aricjm15]

So, detonation is just as dangerous in this direct injection engine as it is in any other traditional port injection engine. This is for the most part true, but you have the added cooling effect of the fuel. Yes you would have this to some degree on a normal engine but its not as effective in cooling the combustion chamber as direct injection.
With a standalone though you could almost tune detonation out with just injector timing.

[SPEEDGuy]

This is for the most part true, but you have the added cooling effect of the fuel. Yes you would have this to some degree on a normal engine but its not as effective in cooling the combustion chamber as direct injection.
With a standalone though you could almost tune detonation out with just injector timing.


I agree with you, but that wasn't my point. I was just pointing out that we don't have gas engines that operate on a diesel cycle in our cars like some people think, and that our MZR's will detonate like any other port fuel injected engine if you're not careful. This idea that detonation can only occur for a brief period of time towards top center is a fallacy.

[redms3gt]

good to know...

[StephanieT]

Sorry, to clarify what I'm saying. You're tuning as lean as possible without knocking, then scaling back for a little safety blanket. I'm just wondering whether that '12:1' AFR saftey margin is being applied to the baseline tune.
Correct. The safety margin will be slightly different for every car. There are lots of variables to account for. ie. octane, humidity. etc.. It is best to tune for knock and fuel at the same time. There are two ways to get rid of knock - add more fuel or retard timing more.

If I'm remembering DI correctly, you can run a leaner mixture. So while 12:1 remains a good reccommendation for standard SI engines, theoretically you're not taking advantage of the DI technology. I'm not a DI expert by any means, I'm just wondering if anything will be approached differently with this engine technology.
We are still new to the DI technology too. Other than adding in the MAF & MAP variable at the same time - we have not experienced any real difference in tuning a DI turbo car. It must have adequate fuel delivery with just enough timing retard. We are treating it like any other car with a forced induction system.
Stephanie

[4DRHTRD]

And doesn't the cat alter the AFR reading slightly? So maybe the tail pipe isn't really the true AFR (wink)
I don't have any cats, just straight through baby.
:)(first)

[StephanieT]

And doesn't the cat alter the AFR reading slightly? So maybe the tail pipe isn't really the true AFR (wink)
Ken is correct on the correct wideband placement to get a good reading. But yes, the tailpipe will read differently than right out of the turbo. We have hooked up widebands post-turbo, pre-cat, post cat, and tailpipe. They typically read within a +/- 0.5 of each other. Well within a safety /tolerance range.
Stephanie

[aroz27]

Stephanie,

Sounds like you guys will have a hit with the XEDE setup. Put my in line for the speed6 release.

4DRHTRD,

Beautiful car!

[BSTD3]

Any updates on the PNP Xede? Might have to get me one of these so I'll be reayd for install when my Speed3 arrives. :)

[Captain KRM P5]

Any updates on the PNP Xede? Might have to get me one of these so I'll be reayd for install when my Speed3 arrives. :)

harnesses are being worked on by BEGi, i'll check with them for an update

[BSTD3]

Thanks Capitan!

[GDorris]

Stephanie, now that Compact Car is reporting a 20 hp increase with just the air box cover off (which is how the BEGI Exede dyno run was made), will BEGI be offering a dyno graph and hp increases of the Exede only, without the effect of airbox removal? Seems like the right thing to do.

[Captain KRM P5]

Stephanie, now that Compact Car is reporting a 20 hp increase with just the air box cover off (which is how the BEGI Exede dyno run was made), will BEGI be offering a dyno graph and hp increases of the Exede only, without the effect of airbox removal? Seems like the right thing to do.

we did a dyno of the car down in hawaii with the stock airbox fully intact, i'll try and make time to post it tonight

[desperado-c]

we did a dyno of the car down in hawaii with the stock airbox fully intact, i'll try and make time to post it tonight

What, we have to wait for the post to get the figures? You, sir, are a big tease!

[Captain KRM P5]

What, we have to wait for the post to get the figures? You, sir, are a big tease!

ha ha sorry - with the air box cover on we dynoed at 277whp and 302 lb/ft tq. i am surprised playing around with the stock airbox like that has not caused a CEL code.

[desperado-c]

ha ha sorry - with the air box cover on we dynoed at 277whp and 302 lb/ft tq. i am surprised playing around with the stock airbox like that has not caused a CEL code.

Thanks for the chart, Captain. That's a LOT of power. Nutari posted some more elsewhere and says regarding the baseline: "i lost the file. Base run was about 240whp and 260~tq." So, looking at "about" a 35whp/40tq gain, with the stock airbox on. Stephanie posted elsewhere that their baseline dyno was "... 240 hp ... with the Air Box lid off [and] ... 231 hp ... with the lid on." So, it looks like taking the air box out of the equation yields about 10 hp. It'll be interesting to see what adding a CAI into the mix does.

Yeah, I wondered about the CEL with no airbox, too. If it doesn't light a CEL when running with no restriction, when would it ever?

[Refonbass]

So that 277whp and 302wtq are with the xede and the ETS TMIC?
Or is that the xede on an otherwise bone stock car?

[Captain KRM P5]

So that 277whp and 302wtq are with the xede and the ETS TMIC?
Or is that the xede on an otherwise bone stock car?
XEDE and ETS. intercooler alone showed about 10whp gain to stock car as it was dynoed and XEDE alone showed 271whp gain. keep in mind these dynos were done back to back and also done in a climate 40 degrees warmer than when the BEGi dynos were done. to see if climate, etc really is a factor, we are scheduling a dyno for our customer up near Rhode Island who has the XEDE now and a TMIC on order.

[dread]

don't you correct for temperature in your dyno's

[MadOzodi]

Oh god, I need to file my taxes EARLY!!! Best bang for the buck would be the XEDE (PnP preferred in my case), then CAI, then TMIC if all parts were obtained separately? I'm hoping for a series of dyno runs showing what each part yields when those mods are installed in that order.

Assuming 15% drivetrain loss, that's like 320hp at the crank?

[StephanieT]

Stephanie, now that Compact Car is reporting a 20 hp increase with just the air box cover off (which is how the BEGI Exede dyno run was made), will BEGI be offering a dyno graph and hp increases of the Exede only, without the effect of airbox removal? Seems like the right thing to do.
I agree completely. We had to remove the lid so the car has some air flow. The cover for the IC also came off so we could place fans on it. However, I was not there while they were tuning it and I cannot identify which run was what. If I knew, I would be happy to post it.

Next time the car is on the dyno, I can do a few runs with lid on an Xede only.
Stephanie

[StephanieT]

don't you correct for temperature in your dyno's
Most dynos have a correction for humidity, temperature, and elevation. But not all do.

We have recorded a 12 hp difference on the same car, same temp, same elevation, but a huge difference in humidity. The 12% humidity run made more power than a run at 60% humidity. :)
Stephanie

[dread]

Does the dyno you use correct for these factors?

[desperado-c]

Does the dyno you use correct for these factors?

Stephanie can clarify, but it seems like most dynos done on turboed engine don't use a correction factor. I think this is b/c SAE standards don't provide correction factors for turboed engines, since the primary correction factor is for air pressure / altitude and turbos aren't significantly affected by this variable.

On the affect of humidity and temperature, I found this from Sport Compact Car:

The difference between 0 percent and 100 percent humidity is about a seven percent correction. A temperature change from 60 to 90 degrees, on the other hand, will have an effect of about a 2.8 percent. A difference in elevation from sea level to 5000 feet is worth a whopping 20 percent!
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/editors/technobabble/9907scc_technobabble/

So, it looks like the temp difference b/t TX in Dec (40's-50's?)and HI (70's-80's?) could by itself account for most of a 10hp lower increase in output.

[dread]

If they are not correcting their dynos than the numbers don't mean much as an absolute of whp.

[desperado-c]

If they are not correcting their dynos than the numbers don't mean much as an absolute of whp.

No, but the increase in output should still be relevant. I probably shouldn't have talked about the absolute numbers, but they just seemed to fit. Except for Nutari's memory of his base line.

[StephanieT]

Does the dyno you use correct for these factors?
Yes it does when the sensors go above a certain range. For low humidity and temps, no there is usually no correction. For really hot days, the CF can go to 1.05. All of our dyno sheets should have the CF used on it as well as run conditions. We use uncorrected or standard correction, but not SAE.
Stephanie

[dread]

Yes it does when the sensors go above a certain range. For low humidity and temps, no there is usually no correction. For really hot days, the CF can go to 1.05. All of our dyno sheets should have the CF used on it as well as run conditions. We use uncorrected or standard correction, but not SAE.
Stephanie

thanks for the clarification

[desperado-c]

Yes it does when the sensors go above a certain range. For low humidity and temps, no there is usually no correction. For really hot days, the CF can go to 1.05. All of our dyno sheets should have the CF used on it as well as run conditions. We use uncorrected or standard correction, but not SAE.
Stephanie

Okay, so when it will make the figures higher (low humidity and temps) there's no correction. But when figures will be reduced, the correction kicks in?

What kind of standard is that?

[StephanieT]

Industry Standard

[dread]

bottom line is the xede should be advertised by the power increase it produces and not by the 288 whp that was produced with the airbox open and a tmic installed.

[Nutari]

bottom line is the xede should be advertised by the power increase it produces and not by the 288 whp that was produced with the airbox open and a tmic installed.


Well then. About 40whp and 40wtq gain is good right?

(yippy)

[Captain KRM P5]

bottom line is the xede should be advertised by the power increase it produces and not by the 288 whp that was produced with the airbox open and a tmic installed.

the dyno on our store site and at BEGi's site was done at BEGi with stock TMIC, not upgraded.

we're still waiting for dynos from our other customers in other areas of the country to see how they match up.

[desperado-c]

Well then. About 40whp and 40wtq gain is good right?

(yippy)

No question. It would've been nice to see your baseline, but I'm sure the chilly temps in RI will produce at least that much, too.

[dread]

Well then. About 40whp and 40wtq gain is good right?

(yippy)
Yep its an awesome gain. I just wouldn't expect 288whp. All I am saying is when the xede was first released the claim was 288 whp and now it doesn't seem like it would be possible to get that without other mods. I just don't understand why the dyno's are not being corrected, I thought that was standard procedure and not only when it benefits the numbers. I am not saying that the xede doesn't produce awesome gains, or that it doesn't turn the ms3 into wild beast, but I am not sure what kind of numbers to expect if i installed one. When is this baby going to be plug and play, I need to unleash the beast.

[Nutari]

Yep its an awesome gain. I just wouldn't expect 288whp. All I am saying is when the xede was first released the claim was 288 whp and now it doesn't seem like it would be possible to get that without other mods. I just don't understand why the dyno's are not being corrected, I thought that was standard procedure and not only when it benefits the numbers. I am not saying that the xede doesn't produce awesome gains, or that it doesn't turn the ms3 into wild beast, but I am not sure what kind of numbers to expect if i installed one. When is this baby going to be plug and play, I need to unleash the beast.
from the two dynos, both are consistant.

40 hp and about 40-50tq.

[Captain KRM P5]

When is this baby going to be plug and play, I need to unleash the beast.

working on it feverishly :)

[maestro]

(whip) any progress?

[Mspeed3]

cant wait for plug and play

[nondual]

I won't even consider it till either Plug and Play or my warranty expires.

[4DRHTRD]

For the MS6 guys, I can now control MAP, MAF and boost with no fuel cut and a full 22 PSI (remember GT3071R kit) to redline. Next step is to lean it out and have it tuned by Shiv March 10th in So. Cal...
:)
I'm trying to have my alky kit installed by then too so I can pump out over 400 WHP hopefully.

[neit_jnf]

^^ 22psi on stock injectors?

[zoom-zoomhatch]

I imagine that's the boost he's got the turbo set at...

[Captain KRM P5]

^^ 22psi on stock injectors?

trust me, with these injectors its not going to be a problem

[4DRHTRD]

I've actually ran as high as 26 PSI but was seeing 12.8 AFR so until I get everything dialed in and the meth injection setup installed for the high boost map I'm staying safe with 22.
:)

[redms3gt]

A safe 22...nice.

[StephanieT]

(whip) any progress?
Yes. There is alot of progress, but nothing that would be noticed by the end user. We are now 1 step away from PNP versus 4 steps.
Stephanie

[JimmyMac]

Hey Stephanie, I talked to Nutari about this. But would it be possible to update the BEGi website with the current and/or any updated maps for the MS3 XEDE? I know the units come with a basemap. But it would show better support for the product. I just received the updated base map yesterday from Nutari. And I would not of known about it if I didn't ask. Thanks...

[StephanieT]

I am happy to e-mail maps as needed.

I have a dilemma when posting maps on the Internet. For people who cannot read and download the wrong map, are they going to come back and blame me when they have a problem? For other applications, what if they mix maps for different injectors? What if someone thinks they can put a MS6 map on a MS3? Yes, alot of what ifs. Yes, I over analyze. Would someone blow and engine? Probably not. But...

I could post a "dummy" map though. :)
Stephanie

[Captain KRM P5]

i would be willing to host the maps on my site as long as BEGi does not consider that to be a problem

[Nutari]

Disclaimers are good. :)

[mafanchai]

i was just wondering, ! if maps could be downloaded and we could switch map on the xede, would there be a map that shut off the fuel flow. When there is plug and play... it could be the next best thing then my alarm. !! (chair) just a thought

[nondual]

Is this thing Plug n' Play yet?

[]Plug n' Play
[]GTFO

[Captain KRM P5]

when it becomes plug and play there will be a big announcement, i guarantee you that. its not a walk in the park to make any engine management system plug and play, otherwise alot more companies would have pulled it off for alot more cars right now. there are alot of hoops, some international, to jump through to get the parts needed to do this.

keep in mind, the system will cost more once it goes plug and play. i can't imagine the harnesses will be marked up, but they will add to the final price of the system.

[mafanchai]

Well, price will surely be a factor... considering COBB and CPE are coming out with piggy back tuning and they are running at 650 to 700 ... so , 990 for xede plus PnP harness ?? +50!!

[desperado-c]

I am happy to e-mail maps as needed.

I have a dilemma when posting maps on the Internet. For people who cannot read and download the wrong map, are they going to come back and blame me when they have a problem? For other applications, what if they mix maps for different injectors? What if someone thinks they can put a MS6 map on a MS3? Yes, alot of what ifs. Yes, I over analyze. Would someone blow and engine? Probably not. But...

I could post a "dummy" map though. :)
Stephanie

Maybe someone could set BEGI up with a system that only allows access to the maps after you agree to a big disclaimer. Kind of like when you install software updates except with really big ALLCAPS statements about being COMPLETELY responsible for how you choose to install the maps, not done in reliance on anybody's else's advice or expertise, provided free of charge, etc.?

[II-Savy]

Well, price will surely be a factor... considering COBB and CPE are coming out with piggy back tuning and they are running at 650 to 700 ... so , 990 for xede plus PnP harness ?? +50!!

Kinda of a good point....

[nondual]

Kinda of a good point....
Yeah, obviously if the other companies are offering plug and play versions of a piggyback ECU at lower prices.....

[Captain KRM P5]

Yeah, obviously if the other companies are offering plug and play versions of a piggyback ECU at lower prices.....

its not that cut and dry. its been beaten to death, but side by comparisons to what an Accessport system is capable of compared to a Vishnu based XEDE system is capable of, the XEDE is clearly a more capable unit with more inherent features and user expandability. if every engine management system were identical in ability, then the cheapest one would always be the best.

Well, price will surely be a factor... considering COBB and CPE are coming out with piggy back tuning and they are running at 650 to 700 ... so , 990 for xede plus PnP harness ?? +50!!

CP-E's system is not at this point plug and play, they posted as such. until we see or have a CP-E system in our hands to make direct comparisons i can't say how it would stack up against an XEDE. i can call COBB (done) and go over the Accessport's list of features (done) and make a direct comparison.

don't think you're getting a complete tuning solution with the Cobb at 700 dollars. the ability to tune it yourself is a feature you have to pay extra for that costs at least another 200 dollars. plus it makes hard writes to the stock ECU and ECU history, which even if you remove the unit, a dealership will find if they want to look to for it - even if the stock map is put back on there. This is according to Cobb and Mazda, not my own fanboyish sales mentality ;)

[II-Savy]

its not that cut and dry. its been beaten to death, but side by comparisons to what an Accessport system is capable of compared to a Vishnu based XEDE system is capable of, the XEDE is clearly a more capable unit with more inherent features and user expandability. if every engine management system were identical in ability, then the cheapest one would always be the best.



CP-E's system is not at this point plug and play, they posted as such. until we see or have a CP-E system in our hands to make direct comparisons i can't say how it would stack up against an XEDE. i can call COBB (done) and go over the Accessport's list of features (done) and make a direct comparison.

don't think you're getting a complete tuning solution with the Cobb at 700 dollars. the ability to tune it yourself is a feature you have to pay extra for that costs at least another 200 dollars. plus it makes hard writes to the stock ECU and ECU history, which even if you remove the unit, a dealership will find if they want to look to for it - even if the stock map is put back on there. This is according to Cobb and Mazda, not my own fanboyish sales mentality ;)

All very good points...My bag is if I plug the cheaper thing in and it makes more HP then I am happy. I don't have the time/desire to really mess with it. Click, click 40/50hp more. Thanks very much have a good day. Sure a more involved tuning solution sounds great but.....

[Captain KRM P5]

All very good points...My bag is if I plug the cheaper thing in and it makes more HP then I am happy. I don't have the time/desire to really mess with it. Click, click 40/50hp more. Thanks very much have a good day. Sure a more involved tuning solution sounds great but.....

sure i understand that - the benefit of having more than one EMS option for a car is that different people with different goals can all be accomodated. that said, and not to stray too far off topic, we have two other EMS options for these cars in the works - one much cheaper and more basic and one much more involved than anything presently on the market or currently in the works and more expensive. no one thing is the be-all end-all option, but what i am trying to say is that - feature for feature for the systems brought up thus far - the XEDE is a better bargain. its easy to say "cobb is cheaper and does the exact same stuff" but thats a statement that is factually untrue and i want to dispel that myth, because its misleading to the general consumer on an information level. as an enthusiast first and foremost, i am all for different options, especially since traditonally speaking, the mazda market has gotten the shaft on things like this!

[II-Savy]

we have two other EMS options for these cars in the works - one much cheaper and more basic

I completely agree. The above is what I WOULD be interested in if I don't buy an STi.

[nondual]

its not that cut and dry. its been beaten to death, but side by comparisons to what an Accessport system is capable of compared to a Vishnu based XEDE system is capable of, the XEDE is clearly a more capable unit with more inherent features and user expandability. if every engine management system were identical in ability, then the cheapest one would always be the best.
1) I have a Mac. I need a PC to upload maps.
2) I don't want to have to learn how to program my computer. I just don't. I probably wouldn't even install any of my upgrades - I'd have a reputable tuner do it. I don't have a garage and I can't be without my car if I mess something up.

[CTGrey02]

1) I have a Mac. I need a PC to upload maps.
2) I don't want to have to learn how to program my computer. I just don't. I probably wouldn't even install any of my upgrades - I'd have a reputable tuner do it. I don't have a garage and I can't be without my car if I mess something up.

Then in all honesty you should leave it stock.

[JimmyMac]

Well the XEDE base map should be good enough for the current and up and coming mods. So I am told. But goin back to Stephanie... I can understand having the maps available for download on the BEGi website. So instead... why not just list the maps currently available and the version or release date. This will let us know if we are up to date on our maps. Then you can say we have to call you to get the new maps if need be. This will ensure "you" by (on phone) asking us what car we have.. what mods.. etc.. etc... and you can send us the correct map... or tell us we were looking at the wrong one.. etc.. etc.. Then you send us the new map via email... and all is said and done. No worries of some numbnut downloading the wrong one... :D Just a thought.

[dread]

I asked a mazda master tech on another forum and he said that their equipment can detect a reflash by cobb, which makes me think reflashing the ecu is not the way to go if you want to keep your waranty. Captain makes some good points, but I am still waiting for the competition to release their products so I can decide what tuning solution best suits my needs. This xede is an impressive unit, but I would like control of the throttle like cpe is shooting for.

[nondual]

Then in all honesty you should leave it stock.
Why? Just because I don't want to mess with a PC or software mapping or tear the car apart in the street (I have to park on the street)?

[Captain KRM P5]

control of the throttle like cpe is shooting for.

we have that functionality in place on a different system already, which we will be announcing at some point soon

1) I have a Mac. I need a PC to upload maps.
2) I don't want to have to learn how to program my computer. I just don't. I probably wouldn't even install any of my upgrades - I'd have a reputable tuner do it. I don't have a garage and I can't be without my car if I mess something up.

ok thats great, but has nothing to do with the ability of one system to tune a car over another system and is more a matter of your personal preference. pretty sure a windows emulator would solve number 1 for you, and - like any system for these cars - it would come with a very good base map that would show great gains. so yes you could install the XEDE and leave it alone as easily as another system and see gains. my own preference which i am sure is shared is that spending 700 to 1000 on an engine management system with no ability or desire to tune it, say for newer mods, is a waste of money and potential regardless of whatever system you settle on. a reputable tuner who can't install a system like this would frankly not be reputable. for the different mods you might add to the car, you'll want to tune or have someone tune your system to get the best results out of it. no system is going to tune itself.

this is why i was talking about different options we planned on offering. some for people who really don't want to get too involved, like yourself, and some for people who expect more. if you don't want to get your hands dirty thats alright by me and i understand there are people out there like that. but the discussion was related to the capabilities and features of given systems to tune the car, not your own personal preferences, no offense. just because you don't want to have a unit with these kinds of features does not make it inferior, which is what i am getting from your posts. lets not confuse the two.

Why? Just because I don't want to mess with a PC or software mapping or tear the car apart in the street (I have to park on the street)?

no, because any time you play with engine management, you are taking that next step where there is greater inherent risk involved. its a gross exaggeration to say that this would be 'tearing the car apart'. its also already been said you don't have to map it if you don't want to. you wanted to know why the system cost more money, and its been stated plainly. honestly, it seems like you don't need the kind of features that a system like XEDE (or CP-E from what i know of it) would offer, so you should not buy it. its really a waste of money and potential for your purposes. you are vehemently opposed to the possiblity your car might be down for whatever reason, and i totally understand that. knowing that, i would honestly tell you not to consider engine management and save your money for bolt-ons like intake, exhaust, etc and nothing too intrusive if you want to be absolutely safe about it.

look at it this way - to get the most out of your 700 to 1000 dollar investment, you'll want to tune or have it tuned. this is why stock ECUs run so conservative and run so rich; because they are accounting for all weather and climate conditions as well as nuances car to car. its not because mazda wants to saddle you with a lousy air/fuel ratio, its them allowing the computer to be the jack of all trades and master of none because no matter how advanced these computers and thier sensors are, there needs to be that kind of generous tune to be able to sell the same car in Canada that they do in Texas per se. every EMS that is out there will have a "good" base map. to get the best out of it, especially as you mod down the line, you'll want to tune it. why spend the money if you don't want to have that ability? if you don't want something this intensive, thats fine, but that doesn't make the price unjustified nor does it render it inferior by the standards being discussed.

[nondual]

Wait, I get where you're confused.

I'm saying that if I want the Xede, I'd have a tuner install it, as well as all my other parts and any maps that need downloading.

I wasn't implying that installing the Xede, even without Plug and Play is an insurmountable challenge - what I was saying is that installing many of the other modifications sans garage would be.

[mafanchai]

Ultimately, the time and all the money spend ... I think i will shoot for reliability and of course service.... As i am writing, my MS3 is in for a 2nd Cel, unfortunately they did not get the 1st p2006 fix and to further(enguard) complicate stuff, i was very frank at my MAzda survey and guess what ... the dealer gave me 2 calls today and lecture me that the fact that i badly survey them ... of course after paying 26 k for the car and .... its been 3days now and still not have my zoom zoom .. so .. 990 plus +++ for harnesss , I WILL TAKE reliability and CUSTOMER SERVICE.......... !period


WHO HAS THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE (one that smile) ( A cup of coffee would a plus) AROUND>> ... I AM CHANGING DEALERSHIP TO GO TO !

[Captain KRM P5]

Ultimately, the time and all the money spend ... I think i will shoot for reliability and of course service.... As i am writing, my MS3 is in for a 2nd Cel, unfortunately they did not get the 1st p2006 fix and to further(enguard) complicate stuff, i was very frank at my MAzda survey and guess what ... the dealer gave me 2 calls today and lecture me that the fact that i badly survey them ... of course after paying 26 k for the car and .... its been 3days now and still not have my zoom zoom .. so .. 990 plus +++ for harnesss , I WILL TAKE reliability and CUSTOMER SERVICE.......... !period


WHO HAS THE BEST CUSTOMER SERVICE (one that smile) ( A cup of coffee would a plus) AROUND>> ... I AM CHANGING DEALERSHIP TO GO TO !

thats insane. no dealer has a right to harass you for giving them a poor survey.

Wait, I get where you're confused.

I'm saying that if I want the Xede, I'd have a tuner install it, as well as all my other parts and any maps that need downloading.

I wasn't implying that installing the Xede, even without Plug and Play is an insurmountable challenge - what I was saying is that installing many of the other modifications sans garage would be.

ah gotcha, thanks

[dread]

they are obsessed with those surveys, I always mention them if I have a problem.

[Captain KRM P5]

they are obsessed with those surveys, I always mention them if I have a problem.
mazda dealers can be penalized or lose a good bit of thier 'holdback' cash if the surveys come back under 89% on average (wedge)

[WTF MATE]

Then in all honesty you should leave it stock.
Smartest thing I heard, I know everybody wants something to meet there own agenda in tuning but they made this chip the way it is, if you want it buy it if not leave it alone and wait for something else. And like Grey said if you can't afford to have your car on down time or don't have the time or place to work on it than don't. Wait for something easier to come along and buy that part.

[nondual]

Smartest thing I heard, I know everybody wants something to meet there own agenda in tuning but they made this chip the way it is, if you want it buy it if not leave it alone and wait for something else. And like Grey said if you can't afford to have your car on down time or don't have the time or place to work on it than don't. Wait for something easier to come along and buy that part.
Or just let your local tuner work on your car?

That's all I was saying. I had a garage when I had my motorcycle, so I attempted successfully some of the upgrades/replacements (handlebar upgrade, brake and clutch pedals) because I felt reasonably sure I could complete them and I had a roommate with a car if I needed to head down to the Suzuki parts people or Autozone.

[CTGrey02]

Or just let your local tuner work on your car?

That's all I was saying. I had a garage when I had my motorcycle, so I attempted successfully some of the upgrades/replacements (handlebar upgrade, brake and clutch pedals) because I felt reasonably sure I could complete them and I had a roommate with a car if I needed to head down to the Suzuki parts people or Autozone.

I meant no disrespect by telling you to leave it stock. I'm trying to save you a major headache. You've stated many times now your a traveling RN. Having to depend on your car as a dependable daily driver, and then modifying it is asking for trouble. I don't care who does the work. If a car is designed to work with in a set of parameters and you modify the vehicle to run outside those parameters, you invite a level of risk of break down that didn't exist when the car was stock. If you want a fast toy, stick to either a bike, or buy an old mustang (or car X) and modify that so you don't have to worry if the thing breaks on ya. I have a 400 RWHP beast in my garage and my daily drivers have never been modified because I simply rely too heavily on my transportation to risk having it broken. Your car is part of your livelihood. Do with it as you wish, but realize the inherent risk. Your's already broke once when it was stock. Do you really trust it with more power? How about when the warranty claim gets denied? Just my 2 cents.

[nondual]

I meant no disrespect by telling you to leave it stock. I'm trying to save you a major headache. You've stated many times now your a traveling RN. Having to depend on your car as a dependable daily driver, and then modifying it is asking for trouble. I don't care who does the work. If a car is designed to work with in a set of parameters and you modify the vehicle to run outside those parameters, you invite a level of risk of break down that didn't exist when the car was stock. If you want a fast toy, stick to either a bike, or buy an old mustang (or car X) and modify that so you don't have to worry if the thing breaks on ya. I have a 400 RWHP beast in my garage and my daily drivers have never been modified because I simply rely too heavily on my transportation to risk having it broken. Your car is part of your livelihood. Do with it as you wish, but realize the inherent risk. Your's already broke once when it was stock. Do you really trust it with more power? How about when the warranty claim gets denied? Just my 2 cents.
Good points. In LA, I'd prolly feel better if I could get my SV650 here for backup transportation that requires very little storage space.

[StephanieT]

Well the XEDE base map should be good enough for the current and up and coming mods. So I am told. But goin back to Stephanie... I can understand having the maps available for download on the BEGi website. So instead... why not just list the maps currently available and the version or release date. This will let us know if we are up to date on our maps. Then you can say we have to call you to get the new maps if need be. This will ensure "you" by (on phone) asking us what car we have.. what mods.. etc.. etc... and you can send us the correct map... or tell us we were looking at the wrong one.. etc.. etc.. Then you send us the new map via email... and all is said and done. No worries of some numbnut downloading the wrong one... :D Just a thought.
That is certain an idea I would entertain. Hmm. I will think about it some more. I guess I have gotten used to all the MSM and miata people e-mailing a request.

As for controlling throttle - The Xede can do that if needed. However, in this application it is not needed, nor was there an increase in efficiency or power.
Stephanie

[dread]

CPE claims the throttle is what pulls power after 5500 rpms. If the throttle is controlled then the powerband can be opened up. Xede provides huge gains but the powerband is almost identicle to stock, I would like power to come on sooner and last longer. Flooring my ms3 reminds me of the first time I had sex, it felt so good, but was over too quick. I want it to last longer.

[JimmyMac]

Maybe the turbo almost maxes out before redline... So Mazda pulled the throttle... ?

[mafanchai]

ANY NEWS ON THE PnP? =](drive2)

[Captain KRM P5]

ANY NEWS ON THE PnP? =](drive2)

no there is not and as soon as there is we will say something, i promise.

[BSTD3]

Over a month since the last posting asking about the PNP capability.

Any news?

[Captain KRM P5]

Over a month since the last posting asking about the PNP capability.

Any news?

we have one of the two harnesses needed for the 3 and two of four needed for the 6. when we have more information it will be posted.

[BSTD3]

we have one of the two harnesses needed for the 3 and two of four needed for the 6. when we have more information it will be posted.

Thanks Captian. Any timeframe on the PNP release?

[clos561]

is it gona stay 1k for the xede after its pnp

[BSTD3]

Bump for an update?

[Captain KRM P5]

no updates. as i said, when PnP is here, i will post as such.

more tuning on the ms6 we have gave us a 106mph trap speed in the 1/4.

[clos561]

with the xede does it increase boost? or just a/f

[Captain KRM P5]

with the xede does it increase boost? or just a/f

the XEDE has control over the factory wastegate solenoid so yes, it can and does control boost.

[clos561]

the XEDE has control over the factory wastegate solenoid so yes, it can and does control boost.
what is the max psi you guys tune the current xede to ? and once you guys have it pnp and i buy one...when i remove the xede for a dealer visit they shouldnt be able to read the increase correct? because it only intercepts the signal from the ecu not change it....?