What kind of Boost Levels are MS3 owners seeing?

[redms3gt]

I just disconnected the BOV line to the gauges and hooked it up to my air compresser..I ran the tank down to 25-20-15-10 and basically the gauge is spot on at all points with the pressure in the tank..I also checked for leaks at the back of the gauge and other fittings and connections.. No leaks..I only get 10-12 psi in most gears ,,3rd,4th 5th 6th..This seems low but the car seems to pull like it always has from new. spikes to 16-17 on the hwy every time, settles to 11-12.5ish then drops off from there in the upper rpms..atleast is not the gauge.. ...anyone have any input? I notice the chip from austalia said they increased power from increasing boost from 13 to 16.. I though ms3 had 15.7lbs max boost..after second? I might loose a pound or two from pressure drop through the intercooler but that would put me a like 13/14 at the turbo. Seem like most ms6 owners are seeing 15-16 at the Bov with there boost gauges...What kind of pressure are everyone else seeing..?(bang)

[nonopr]

Where did you get the pod for the gauges on top of the dask? I am looking for one and did you had to modify your dash a lot?Looks nice.(shocked)

[Nutari]

I see now..

almost nothing in 1st..

2nd spikes up to 10

3rd will spike up to 15 then kinda settle at 10~
same for the rest.

[Shane5425]

do yall think a mbc can stablelize and put more boost in 1st and 2nd gears without raising the rest?

[Nutari]

do yall think a mbc can stablelize and put more boost in 1st and 2nd gears without raising the rest?
I hear that MBC do NOT work in our cars.. dont know why though..

[redms3gt]

MBC will work on any wastgate controlled turbo car.. Only fools the wastgate into opening later allowing more boost..This thing spins bad in first and second for me. More boost would be bad.. I was thinking someone could unhook the pressure line off the turbo and run it to the Bov.. That would make the ecu try to maintain the same boost as stock plus any inefficiency lost though the intercooler. Would probable give a psi or two? spike would be worse as the signal to the wastegate to open would take longer to reach it. The ms6 guys seem to run 17 with no problems but that does not mean we are the same. I want someone else to try first.. If cobb come out with a fix we would get more boost and could still maintain some of the factory limiting..the pod is off of ebay.The problem with is the factory solenoid controls how much boost the turbo is able to produce and if there is any knock from bad gas/high temps/etc the Ecu can back it off the save itself,but many, many people run MBC's or wastegates set to certain mechanical "non ecu controlled"llevel without any problems.
http://i4.ebayimg.com/02/i/07/05/20/25_1_b.JPG..Its fits pretty good but need sanding and cutting to get it decent..Gotta hack of the center peice pretty bad..
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/ucancallmedebo/HPIM0598.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/ucancallmedebo/HPIM0591.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/ucancallmedebo/HPIM0582.jpg

[redms3gt]

I also notice in 3rrd and above that when rolling on at any speed boost stays about 10-11psi..We I say roll on I mean slow enough there is no spike at all.. If I punch it boost spikes to 15-17 depending to gear and settles to 11-12.5 depending on gear.. this is weird. The car is definitely faster feeling 1st,2,3,4,5 than just smoothy rolling on in third,etc....This loss of power issure seems to be widespread..

[Aaron@Realtune]

Have you thought about using a TXS DtecBC?

You would have full controll over boost per gear AND per RPM.

Example


gear 1- 8 psi
gear 2- 10psi
gear 3- 17psi and than in higher RPM ranges where the boost would drop, you can open the EBCs solenoid more to keep the boost level steady
gear 4 - Repeat and so on. Most likely gear 4 would need less duty cycle than gear 3.



This device can also be used to spool the turbo faster if need be and can help with smaller turbos PTB.


Now keep in mind the computer wouldnt be controlling boost anymore. The EBC would. You would also NEED to check the a/f before making big changes like holding 5-7psi more to redline.

Also you can NOT turn the boost down lower than what the WGA would give you without computer controlled boost.

Anyone know what the boost levels would be if you just ran the WGA to a boost source?

[zoom-zoomhatch]

It could be very possibly that the wastegate just like in the srt is weak and won't hold that much boost through the gear. I'm not sure where you would find the specs but maybe the wastegate has a 11lb. spring in it allowing it to open after it hits that mark so you feel 16 psi for a second then it begins to fall off.

[Aaron@Realtune]

It could be very possibly that the wastegate just like in the srt is weak and won't hold that much boost through the gear. I'm not sure where you would find the specs but maybe the wastegate has a 11lb. spring in it allowing it to open after it hits that mark so you feel 16 psi for a second then it begins to fall off.



As with the SRT, Its not just the weak WGA[4psi]. Its the poor manifold design and small turbo size.

Im willing to bet the WGA is a big part of the problem with the MS vehicles and that the size of the turbo is the rest of the issue. Very easily fixed either way you look at it

[zoom-zoomhatch]

I'm not so bothered with the small turbo, I actually wouldn't mind if someone produced an upgrade for this turbo. The lack of spool time is nice, but to fix the wastegate and be able to hold that power to redline would be nice.

[Refonbass]

I'm really hoping to see an aftermarket WGA on the market very soon! I think that in conjunction with a tune, Intake, Intercooler upgrade and turboback exhaust will make the car something to truly be reckoned with!

[redms3gt]

I would guess the wategate by itself is likely very low cause in first it can pull basically all boost if it want to and u are turning also...the wastegate has two nipples on it. On on top/and one one bottom..bottom runs directly to turbo..top runs to soilenoid I beleive. I think the computer limits throttle to 80% after 6k so thats part of the reason boost drops off so fast...

[matsuda]

It could be very possibly that the wastegate just like in the srt is weak and won't hold that much boost through the gear. I'm not sure where you would find the specs but maybe the wastegate has a 11lb. spring in it allowing it to open after it hits that mark so you feel 16 psi for a second then it begins to fall off.
The maximum boost pressure is regulated by the ECU.
It is not an issue of the wastegate actuator.

[Aaron@Realtune]

The maximum boost pressure is regulated by the ECU.
It is not an issue of the wastegate actuator.


Thats what I thought.


Can someone take a picture of the WGA for me?

So there are no WGA upgrades for the MS3 yet? Thats insane

[redms3gt]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/ucancallmedebo/HPIM0536.jpg

very hard to see. but here is a pic. The Ecu is controlling what the wastegate is seeing. Essentially having full control of boost.

[Aaron@Realtune]

Thanks for the pics, but I was hoping someone had a clear shot or have it out of the car?

[JDM Sam]

You have to redo the vacuum line system to run any boost controller properly.
It's the PCM that controls the boost level. There's also a fuel cut you will have to worry about.

[Nutari]

hm.. well.. I wasnt going to post this video cause I dropped the camera at the end.. but here.

video of the boost gauge.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Deathwater/mazda/th_MOV02988.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/Deathwater/mazda/?action=view&current=MOV02988.flv)

[Nutari]

and yes, im getting a gauge pod in the mail..

[redms3gt]

That boost patter looks about like mine,,I dont feel so bad now..thanks 4 the video.. I can spike to 16-17 in sixth on the heyway but boost levels look the same..I get 20 hg vacuum at idle and 22-25ish on decel..Looks like you where at almost 30..I need to get better lines as the advance auto black vacuum lines could be crushing/pinching under vacumm throwing off my gauge..I have a modded airbox so I get a touch more spike that u though..

[Aaron@Realtune]

That is pretty funny that you dropped the camera. (shocked)

Thanks for the video tho!

[Aaron@Realtune]

Looks like I will have my hands on an MS3 very shortly. A long time friend of my partners is buying one soon. Keep a look out for some insight from us soon (glare)

[quiet desperado]

I was playing with my boost gauge yesterday and I noticed that when going up an incline in 5th the boost was holding nicely at 16 psi. No spiking and settling down, just a nice solid 16 psi while the engine was under load. I then did several runs in 3rd-6th, going up hills steep enough to keep engine under load for several seconds each time. 4th-6th will hold 16 psi when going up an incline without any problem. It takes a pretty steep hill to test 3rd, but when I found one it showed that it will hold no more than 12 psi max. Whichever article it was that said boost was limited in 1st-3rd was right.

Also, wet pavement is not your drivetrain's friend under hard acceleration in 3rd. I won't be repeating this experiment on wet pavement again due to the wheel hop and other incidences of unpleasantness I experienced. By "unpleasantness", I mean it in the same way that a South Carolinian I used to know used the term to refer to the Civil War. I think anyone who unleashes substantially more power out of this engine will definitely need to replace the rear engine mount and check all the other mounts regularly. I should add, though, that torque steer was never a problem! But Mazda should have gotten the word out to all the car mag journalists that 3rd is in fact limited. Instead, I think it saw this interesting fact in just the one review, in an Aussie mag. Don't even remember which one.

[Vixen]

I posted about this somewhere else on this board but it also seems relevant here.
I bought my MS3 on Halloween. Sometimes it seemed like 3rd was flat. Like I wasn't getting the power I should have. Thought it was just me, since I had never driven anything with a turbo before. Well now I know it wasn't just me.
I have 1900 miles on it and Tuesday the CEL came on.
Friday morning when I was scheduled to take her to the dealer the CEL was off. I took her in anyway.
They ran their diagnostics and found that the Intake Manifold Runner Control Valve was the problem. He didn't tell me exactly what it does but from what I've read it is supposed to stay closed at low RPM. The computer thinks it stays open when it doesn't. So to fix it They elongate the hole that the screw fits in to that holds the valve on to the intake. This makes the springs tighter on the valve. That's how they explained it to me anyway.
They called Engineering and had it fixed in 1 hour 30 min. They are keeping the ticket open in case the light comes on again. He gave me a 70% chance that it won't come back on. He also said that he had to do the same thing to a CX-7 a while ago.
So back to my point: 3rd gear no longer feels restricted!! I imagine that this problem will effect most if not all MS3's. It's a design flaw.
Sorry if I couldn't explain it real well but I feel this is one if not the problem people are having with their MS3's just not feeling like they are at their fullest potential.

[Rotus8]

It would be interesting to know how many cars have the PZEV option. It is required in California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York and Vermont. However it may be installed on other cars too. I'll bet it has different controls and may limit the boost in 3rd where the non-PZEV version may not. Just a thought. How do you know if you have this "option"?

[quiet desperado]

I posted about this somewhere else on this board but it also seems relevant here.
I bought my MS3 on Halloween. Sometimes it seemed like 3rd was flat. ....
So back to my point: 3rd gear no longer feels restricted!! I imagine that this problem will effect most if not all MS3's. It's a design flaw.
Sorry if I couldn't explain it real well but I feel this is one if not the problem people are having with their MS3's just not feeling like they are at their fullest potential.

I think I've read something about this somewhere. Interesting, but can you get a boost reading post-fix to see if it's pushing more than 12 psi? You want a gauge anyway don't you? I can provide detailed instructions on the install if you pull the trigger.

[dread]

There is no non-pzev option, all ms3 are the same.

[Nutari]

im getting 16-18 psi solid. :) all gears...


(first)


(edit)

1st I limited it to only 12 psi.
2nd 16psi solid
3rd 16psi solid
4th 15/16 psi
5th 18psi
6th 16-18

no spiking either. It holds boost till redline.

[Rotus8]

There is no non-pzev option, all ms3 are the same.
Thats only for emissions related equipment. Its a few less hp\tq. The ECU is alittle different, they run alittle leaner, the gas tank is different, the exhaust has an extra muffler, and they have one extra 02 sensor after the 2nd cat.
PZEV Emissions Equipment REQUIRED in California, Massachusetts, Maine, New York and Vermont. N/C
Hmmm. Who should I believe?

[dread]

I know its not an option or it would have been on my car, because the dealer I go to puts it on all their cars and charges $100.00. I think it is standard equipment on all ms3's. You would see a note on mazda's website if there was less hp in ca etc.

[matsuda]

Hmmm. Who should I believe?
You can believe me.
ALL MS3's sold in the U.S. are ULEV, NONE are PZEV.

[redms3gt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox3oQXLaaoA

[Rotus8]

You can believe me.
ALL MS3's sold in the U.S. are ULEV, NONE are PZEV.
http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch/cleansearch_result.asp?vehicletypeid=16
Scroll down to the Mazda 3.
http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=94062&acode=USB70MAC221B0&restore=false
Check under "Other Options"

[matsuda]

http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch/cleansearch_result.asp?vehicletypeid=16
Scroll down to the Mazda 3.
http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=94062&acode=USB70MAC221B0&restore=false
Check under "Other Options"
The Calif. base 3 is PZEV but the MS3 is ULEV.
That is a misprint on the carsdirect website.

Ask anyone in CA, MA, ME, NY, or VT to look at their window sticker. It will say ULEV.

[Rotus8]

The Calif. base 3 is PZEV but the MS3 is ULEV.
That is a misprint on the carsdirect website.

Ask anyone in CA, MA, ME, NY, or VT to look at their window sticker. It will say ULEV.
I stand corrected. Thank you. A number of other car pricing sites have made the same mistake as carsdirect.

I'll stop obsessing about it now.

[Speedy3]

I just measured my boost pressure using Auterra Dyno-Scan. Here are my first results:

Temp: 34 deg. F
Barometric Pressure: 29.6 in Hg(from Car PCM), 30.43 (from www.nws.noaa.gov)
Humidity: 90%
Altitude: 535 Feet

Drag Start (shift at 6000 RPM in each gear):
1st gear: 9.578 psi (peak)
2nd gear: 15.570 psi (peak)
3rd gear: 14.391 psi (peak)
4th gear: 16.699 psi (peak)

Punched in each gear from 3000 RPM to 6000 RPM:
1st gear: 9.725 psi (peak)
2nd gear: 13.212 psi (peak)
3rd gear: 13.654 psi (peak)
4th gear: did not measure cause radar detector went off!

I also have power/torque curves in each gear, but here are the peaks:

Note: these are taken from the rubber on the road, not at the crankshaft, so they will look wierd.

1st gear: 127.1 HP @ 5000 (peak) / 139.5 Ft-Lbs @ 4600 (peak)
2nd gear: 184.9 HP @ 5300 (peak) / 184.3 Ft-Lbs @ 3600 (peak)
3rd gear: 197.6 HP @ 5500 (peak) / 211.9 Ft-Lbs @ 3400 (peak)
4th gear: 226.2 HP @ 5100 (peak) / 244.4 Ft-Lbs @ 4500 (peak)

I will try more runs (especially 5th and 6th gear) when I get more time. I did an initial acceleration run as a sanity check on the power ratings and got 6.8 seconds 0-60, but I missed 2nd gear sync.

[desperado-c]

I just measured my boost pressure using Auterra Dyno-Scan. Here are my first results:

Temp: 34 deg. F
Barometric Pressure: 29.6 in Hg(from Car PCM), 30.43 (from www.nws.noaa.gov)
Humidity: 90%
Altitude: 535 Feet

Drag Start (shift at 6000 RPM in each gear):
1st gear: 9.578 psi (peak)
2nd gear: 15.570 psi (peak)
3rd gear: 14.391 psi (peak)
4th gear: 16.699 psi (peak)

Punched in each gear from 3000 RPM to 6000 RPM:
1st gear: 9.725 psi (peak)
2nd gear: 13.212 psi (peak)
3rd gear: 13.654 psi (peak)
4th gear: did not measure cause radar detector went off!

....

That's interesting data, but I think the 4th-6th gear roll on boost is the one we all want to see. Also, since those figures are higher than most of us have seen, I assume that "peak" is equal to "spike". Can your data logger show what psi the boost settles at after the spike?

[Speedy3]

That's interesting data, but I think the 4th-6th gear roll on boost is the one we all want to see.

I will try to test again soon. The problem is that we have been having freezing weather and the roads are all hosed up.

Also, since those figures are higher than most of us have seen, I assume that "peak" is equal to "spike". Can your data logger show what psi the boost settles at after the spike?

Yes, I actually have the graphs on my laptop. I will post them soon.

[desperado-c]

I will try to test again soon. The problem is that we have been having freezing weather and the roads are all hosed up.



Yes, I actually have the graphs on my laptop. I will post them soon.

Fantastico!

[Vixen]

I think I've read something about this somewhere. Interesting, but can you get a boost reading post-fix to see if it's pushing more than 12 psi? You want a gauge anyway don't you? I can provide detailed instructions on the install if you pull the trigger.

Thanks!
I'm pulling the trigger......

[Speedy3]

Fantastico!

Ok, I did 2 runs today.

Run #1:
Roll on boost in 4th gear at 46 MPH and 3k RPM, then shifting to 5th gear at 5500 RPM and letting off the gas at 4400 RPM @90 MPH.

Ambient Temp: 44 deg F
Intake Temp: 41 deg F (dropped to 39 halfway through 4th gear boost)

4th gear: 14.4 psi initial peak boost, dropped steadily to 11.2 psi.
During shift: Dropped to -12.7 psi
5th gear: 18.3 psi initial peak boost, dropped quickly to 14.4 psi, then dropped slowly to 12.9 psi until I let off the gas.

Run #2:
Roll on boost in 4th gear at 50 MPH and 3k RPM, then shifting to 5th gear at 5500 RPM, then shifting to 6th gear at 5100 RPM and letting off the gas at 3900 RPM @101 MPH.

Ambient Temp: 44 deg F
Intake Temp: 41 deg F (throughout entire run)

4th gear: 15.0 psi initial peak boost, dropped steadily to 10.9 psi.
During shift: Dropped to -11.5 psi
5th gear: Rapidly hit 14.1 psi then at a slower rate climbed to 16.8 psi initial peak boost, dropped quickly to 15.0 psi, then dropped slowly to 12.6
During shift: Dropped to -11.3 psi
6th gear: 17.3 psi initial boost, dropped quickly to 15.1 psi, then dropped slowly to 14.8 psi until I let off the gas.

I uploaded the graphs, but don't know how to put them into a message here.

[desperado-c]

Thanks!
I'm pulling the trigger......

I took some pix yesterday and put together a post in the next day or so. It's a great first mod. Especially for people like me who haven't had a turboed engine before.

[desperado-c]

Ok, I did 2 runs today.

Run #1:
Roll on boost in 4th gear at 46 MPH and 3k RPM, then shifting to 5th gear at 5500 RPM and letting off the gas at 4400 RPM @90 MPH.

Ambient Temp: 44 deg F
Intake Temp: 41 deg F (dropped to 39 halfway through 4th gear boost)

4th gear: 14.4 psi initial peak boost, dropped steadily to 11.2 psi.
During shift: Dropped to -12.7 psi
5th gear: 18.3 psi initial peak boost, dropped quickly to 14.4 psi, then dropped slowly to 12.9 psi until I let off the gas.

Run #2:
Roll on boost in 4th gear at 50 MPH and 3k RPM, then shifting to 5th gear at 5500 RPM, then shifting to 6th gear at 5100 RPM and letting off the gas at 3900 RPM @101 MPH.

Ambient Temp: 44 deg F
Intake Temp: 41 deg F (throughout entire run)

4th gear: 15.0 psi initial peak boost, dropped steadily to 10.9 psi.
During shift: Dropped to -11.5 psi
5th gear: Rapidly hit 14.1 psi then at a slower rate climbed to 16.8 psi initial peak boost, dropped quickly to 15.0 psi, then dropped slowly to 12.6
During shift: Dropped to -11.3 psi
6th gear: 17.3 psi initial boost, dropped quickly to 15.1 psi, then dropped slowly to 14.8 psi until I let off the gas.

I uploaded the graphs, but don't know how to put them into a message here.

Those numbers look good to me and show that it is running 16 psi and more when the load is there. I'm now thinking that what people refer as a initial spike is really a peak that decreases as the load the decreases. The higher your gear, the higher the peak and the longer it takes to come down from the peak. Add an incline like I did and it will hold the higher psi for even longer.

It would be good to see the graphs. Unfortunately, you can't upload files to the forum. Instead you need a host since the image option requires a URL. I use Photobucket and it's fairly easy to setup and use. If you don't want to bother, you can PM me and I'll post them for you.

[Speedy3]

Those numbers look good to me and show that it is running 16 psi and more when the load is there. I'm now thinking that what people refer as a initial spike is really a peak that decreases as the load the decreases. The higher your gear, the higher the peak and the longer it takes to come down from the peak. Add an incline like I did and it will hold the higher psi for even longer.

It would be good to see the graphs. Unfortunately, you can't upload files to the forum. Instead you need a host since the image option requires a URL. I use Photobucket and it's fairly easy to setup and use. If you don't want to bother, you can PM me and I'll post them for you.

I'll do it tonight when I get home from work. The images are at home.

[Speedy3]

Those numbers look good to me and show that it is running 16 psi and more when the load is there. I'm now thinking that what people refer as a initial spike is really a peak that decreases as the load the decreases. The higher your gear, the higher the peak and the longer it takes to come down from the peak. Add an incline like I did and it will hold the higher psi for even longer.

It would be good to see the graphs. Unfortunately, you can't upload files to the forum. Instead you need a host since the image option requires a URL. I use Photobucket and it's fairly easy to setup and use. If you don't want to bother, you can PM me and I'll post them for you.

Ok, here are the graphs of Run 1 and Run 2. I added labels to the peaks and valleys.

[Speedy3]

I'll do more runs, but actually shift at 5500. Some of my shifts were lower RPM cause of traffic.

[desperado-c]

I'll do more runs, but actually shift at 5500. Some of my shifts were lower RPM cause of traffic.

You were hauling butsky, bo. Thanks for putting those up. Good stuff. I got to look at them some when I get some more time.

[redms3gt]

Boost is lower in 4th also. I would like to see the graphs of a ms3 with exed on it. Then a camparison per gear. Hopefull power will be full from 2nd to 6th.

[tru-boost]

i would like to see the same graphs but powershift the gears instead.
i would love see how much higher the boost stays

[Speedy3]

i would like to see the same graphs but powershift the gears instead.
i would love see how much higher the boost stays

I have this data from a drag run on Jan 15th. I didn't do a good job shifting, so I'm gonna do another run soon, shifting at 5500 rpms per gear. Notice how the boost dramatically starts to drop off in second gear when It hit 6040 RPMs. Not sure if this was me or the PCM.

[redms3gt]

Pcm cut th% to 80% at 6k. Anyone know where the factory sensor is located or exactly how accurate it is. There is no way I ever get close to 15psi spike in second but measuring at the BOV might be the issue.

[desperado-c]

i would like to see the same graphs but powershift the gears instead.
i would love see how much higher the boost stays

You think you're gonna get this guy to flatshift just so you can prove your point on on m3forums about maintaining boost?

Anyhow, I think it's interesting that the decreases in slope of the boost line mirror the slope of the RPM increases. Maybe this the closing down of the throttle plate in gears 1-4 that AMS and others have talked about?

Also on the boost being lower in 4th, it got up to 16.7 on this graph before Speedy3 pulled the plug. And in the earlier graphs it had a lower peak than in 5th/6th, but they all settled down to the same level of right around 15. I'll do another run up an incline in 4th to check, but I think it will hold 16 under load.

[tru-boost]

yes i would like to see it !!
if i had the ability to get the data myself i would...but i dont.
i think it would be interesting to see.

[Speedy3]

yes i would like to see it !!
if i had the ability to get the data myself i would...but i dont.
i think it would be interesting to see.

I'm gonna log the data during a drag run with flat-shifting, but probably only up to 4th gear.

You think you're gonna get this guy to flatshift just so you can prove your point on on m3forums about maintaining boost?

Thanks Desperado-c for looking out for my car's health! I think I'm gonna do this test anyways. I'm curious too.

Anyhow, I think it's interesting that the decreases in slope of the boost line mirror the slope of the RPM increases. Maybe this the closing down of the throttle plate in gears 1-4 that AMS and others have talked about?

I can plot the throttle selenoid position vs boost if you want.

I'll do another run up an incline in 4th to check, but I think it will hold 16 under load.

I'll do a load boost test too when I get a chance and post the graphs.

[tru-boost]

I'm gonna log the data during a drag run with flat-shifting, but probably only up to 4th gear.

thatta boy !!! (drive)

[desperado-c]

thatta boy !!! (drive)

+100! After all Mazda suggested this to Car and Driver as a way to get a better drag time out of the MS3 even though Car and Driver compared it to dropping a grand piano on your tranny.

Also looking forward to the graphing of throttle position to boost and boost under load in 4th. MUCH more reliable than me looking at my boost gauge. What diagnostic tool are you using again?

[Speedy3]

+100! After all Mazda suggested this to Car and Driver as a way to get a better drag time out of the MS3 even though Car and Driver compared it to dropping a grand piano on your tranny.

Also looking forward to the graphing of throttle position to boost and boost under load in 4th. MUCH more reliable than me looking at my boost gauge. What diagnostic tool are you using again?

Auterra Dyno-Scan.

[Rotus8]

Auterra Dyno-Scan.
Can you tell me which real-time sensor readings the Auterra can access on the MS3? I am considering purchasing one and would like to know what I am getting.

[clos561]

flat shift? what is that? power shift? how do u do that? i jstu chagne gears really fast..........is it jsut clutch work?

[jeffmsp]

why would yu need to upgrade the wastegate, just tune the ecu to hold boost til redline. If its tuned to and it cant then I would look if it has expanding stock intercooler pipes and other issues. what Does the MS3 have as a boost measuring device that it reads from to make boost corrections?

[Speedy3]

Can you tell me which real-time sensor readings the Auterra can access on the MS3? I am considering purchasing one and would like to know what I am getting.

Calculated engine load value
Engine coolant temperature
Short term fuel % trim—Bank 1
Long term fuel % trim—Bank 1
Intake manifold pressure
Engine RPM
Vehicle speed
Timing advance
Intake air temperature
MAF air flow rate
Throttle position
Bank 1, Sensor 2:Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim
Run time since engine start
Fuel Rail Pressure
Commanded EGR
Commanded evaporative purge
Barometric pressure
O2 Snsr B1-S1 Wide Range ma
Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 1
Control module voltage
Absolute load value
Command equivalence ratio
Relative throttle position
Ambient air temperature
Absolute throttle position B
Accelerator pedal position D
Accelerator pedal position E
Commanded throttle actuator

And about 5 others that I haven't needed yet.

[Speedy3]

flat shift? what is that? power shift? how do u do that? i jstu chagne gears really fast..........is it jsut clutch work?

Keep the throttle on while shifting.

Wikipedia:
Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or cluthchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to increase acceleration.

This involves rapidly disengaging the clutch while keeping the accelerator to the floor, shifting, and then rapidly engaging the clutch. The whole movement should be under half a second.

Contrary to popular belief, this does not put very much strain on the transmission, most of the stress is absorbed by the clutch and the rear differential, one of the reasons manual transmission cars break the differential more often than automatics.

BTW, the clutch in the MS3 is apparently designed for this. As a quote from Car and Driver, Nov 2006 "Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 — redline is 6700 — and flat-shift through second and third (which means don’t lift at all — the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).

“Don’t worry,” the engineers said, “it won’t break.”"

[Rotus8]

Calculated engine load value
...
And about 5 others that I haven't needed yet.
Awesome. Thanks. Ordered.
Now if I can only get my damn car, I can make some interesting experiments with real data.

[clos561]

Keep the throttle on while shifting.

Wikipedia:
Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or cluthchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to increase acceleration.

This involves rapidly disengaging the clutch while keeping the accelerator to the floor, shifting, and then rapidly engaging the clutch. The whole movement should be under half a second.

Contrary to popular belief, this does not put very much strain on the transmission, most of the stress is absorbed by the clutch and the rear differential, one of the reasons manual transmission cars break the differential more often than automatics.

BTW, the clutch in the MS3 is apparently designed for this. As a quote from Car and Driver, Nov 2006 "Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 — redline is 6700 — and flat-shift through second and third (which means don’t lift at all — the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).

“Don’t worry,” the engineers said, “it won’t break.”"
ill try it but il proly fuck up for a few tries

[Speedy3]

Awesome. Thanks. Ordered.
Now if I can only get my damn car, I can make some interesting experiments with real data.

Het Rotus8, it also does power/torque measurements (per Gear) and acceleration times. Look at this thread to see my power/torque runs:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123653857

Also, here is my latest acceleration run (0-60: 6.1 seconds):

The jagged curve up to about 40 MPH was tire slippage. I didn't flat-shift on this run; just traditional shifting. I should be able to pull 5.5-6 seconds with flat-shifting. Also, the SW will calculate your 1/8 mile time/speed and 1/4 mile time/speed, but i didn't go olong enough to give it the data to do the calculations.

[Speedy3]

ill try it but il proly fuck up for a few tries

Just don't try the flat-shifting from 1st to 2nd, cause it is way too much energy for the clutch. Besides, this car has plenty of pull from 1st and second, you don't need the extra boost then. 2nd to 3rd is awesome when flat-shifting. It will smoke the tires a bit going into 3rd and toss you back in the seat pretty hard. Just remember, flat-shifting will give you much quicker turbo response, but at the cost of the life of your clutch! Also, make sure to turn off DSC when doing this and time the shift so that you don't exceed 6000 rpms during the shift. Wastegate tries to trigger around then, so you are loosing the bennefit. I try to shift from 2nd to 3rd around 5200-5500 rpms and do it quick.

Good luck!

[SeanMSIII]

Het Rotus8, it also does power/torque measurements (per Gear) and acceleration times. Look at this thread to see my power/torque runs:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123653857

Also, here is my latest acceleration run (0-60: 6.1 seconds):

The jagged curve up to about 40 MPH was tire slippage. I didn't flat-shift on this run; just traditional shifting. I should be able to pull 5.5-6 seconds with flat-shifting. Also, the SW will calculate your 1/8 mile time/speed and 1/4 mile time/speed, but i didn't go olong enough to give it the data to do the calculations.

Very nice times for not flat-shifting. Kinda looks like you know what you're doing. C&D shoulda let you run their 0-60 and 1/4 mile!

[Rotus8]

Het Rotus8, it also does power/torque measurements (per Gear) and acceleration times. Look at this thread to see my power/torque runs:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123653857
I'm interested in including DBW throttle position, MAF readings WB O2 sensor readings in the graphs to evaluate shifting technique and mod effectivity.

[clos561]

Just don't try the flat-shifting from 1st to 2nd, cause it is way too much energy for the clutch. Besides, this car has plenty of pull from 1st and second, you don't need the extra boost then. 2nd to 3rd is awesome when flat-shifting. It will smoke the tires a bit going into 3rd and toss you back in the seat pretty hard. Just remember, flat-shifting will give you much quicker turbo response, but at the cost of the life of your clutch! Also, make sure to turn off DSC when doing this and time the shift so that you don't exceed 6000 rpms during the shift. Wastegate tries to trigger around then, so you are loosing the bennefit. I try to shift from 2nd to 3rd around 5200-5500 rpms and do it quick.

Good luck!
i can spin the tires in 3rd normal shifting tho.....i duno ill proly be too scared to try it cuz ive never done it.....

[Speedy3]

Very nice times for not flat-shifting. Kinda looks like you know what you're doing. C&D shoulda let you run their 0-60 and 1/4 mile!

Thanks! I have been practicing quite a bit. I think the cold weather helps by increasing the intake air density and giving a little extra umph. It has been in the 30's here and I believe the C&D test was a bit warmer. The article doesn't give the environmental conditions during their test, but it looks sunny, with a California landscape. For 0-60, The flat shifting will only help the Speed 3 from 2nd to 3rd because it will hit 60 just after shifting.

[desperado-c]

So, FWIW, I did some runs in 4th up some pretty good inclines, and the boost ceiling is definitely lower than 16 psi, more like 15 and quickly going down to 14. AMS and CP-E (I think) have said that the throttle is closing in gears 1-4. So maybe that's the reason. This is too much, first almost all the mags say that boost is only limited in 1st & 2nd. Then we find out it's also actually limited in 3rd. And now it looks like it is limited in 4th, or at least the the throttle effectively limits boost even if the wastegate isn't tripped.

Oh, well, still a great car, but I wish Mazda had been up front about it.

[redms3gt]

A little entertainment........(omg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWxhfI6FFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox3oQXLaaoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34uy9vveY-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Ryjn6lN84

no flat shifting yet. somebody post some vids..

[Nutari]

A little entertainment........(omg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWxhfI6FFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox3oQXLaaoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34uy9vveY-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Ryjn6lN84

no flat shifting yet. somebody post some vids..
Those were you? I found those videos a while ago...

last video has my current favorite song btw...

[jcrystal]

Ok, here are the graphs of Run 1 and Run 2. I added labels to the peaks and valleys.
Having owned it a while, what are your thoughts about Auterra, esp. vs. AutoEnginuity?

[Speedy3]

Having owned it a while, what are your thoughts about Auterra, esp. vs. AutoEnginuity?

This is the first data logging SW that I have used. I'm not familiar with AutoEnginuity, but after looking at their web site, it looks like theirs costs more and doesn't include the Dyno tool. The Dyno tool actually is half the fun. You can measure HP/Torque output at the tires per gear. Also, it will do acceleration runs with 0-60, 1/8 mile, and 1/4 mile times.

Any data is exportable into a .csv file, which you can view and graph in Excel, but I think the AutoEnginuity export is better because it looks like it automatically formats the data into columns. Auterra doesn't, it all goes into the same column and you have to filter out by OBDII code. A little time consuming. AutoEnginuity also has the alarm feature, which Auterra doesn't.

That's the best I can do, not having used AutoEnginuity.

Good luck and don't forget to look for promotion/coupon codes before finalizing your order. I saved 10% on my order.

[dpeat]

Keep the throttle on while shifting.

Wikipedia:
Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or cluthchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to increase acceleration.

This involves rapidly disengaging the clutch while keeping the accelerator to the floor, shifting, and then rapidly engaging the clutch. The whole movement should be under half a second.

Contrary to popular belief, this does not put very much strain on the transmission, most of the stress is absorbed by the clutch and the rear differential, one of the reasons manual transmission cars break the differential more often than automatics.

BTW, the clutch in the MS3 is apparently designed for this. As a quote from Car and Driver, Nov 2006 "Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 — redline is 6700 — and flat-shift through second and third (which means don’t lift at all — the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).

“Don’t worry,” the engineers said, “it won’t break.”"

I'm fine with process, if the engineers from Mazda say it's OK, but on another car wouldn't this make the engine rev while the clutch is down, thus burning the clutch?

[justa4banger]

FYI in the Sport compact car mag that i have(last month has 3 GTI's on the cover), they have a nice article on the motor alone, not the car. IT DOES SAY that Mazda limits boost in 1,2,3 gears. not just 1, 2nd.

they also claim wheel angle, throttle position and a few other things allow the ECU to control boost, in the end controlling TRQ

Where can i get a gauge pod that was shown in the beginning of the thread was it custom?

[justa4banger]

Nevermind i found the gauge pod.

was it drop in or ?? what all has to be done to get it in the car?

[udontknowjack]

spike at 18psi....hold betweek 15-16psi