question for those with built motors and highly modded cars

[jestermsp]

my question is those that have spent thousands on their msp. was it worth it? would you do it all over again or take a different path? i am debating on doing some major work to the car or selling for something fast from the factory. i have had my eye on a svt lightning for a while and there is great support for it in my area. so to spent $10k on the msp hopeing to surpass 400whp or buy the lightning and make 500rwhp on the stock block with about $1k in mods.

[exoticracr]

Sell it. It's been quite fun, but not completely worth it for me.

[JOMO]

I had a alot of money put into my car. Not an msp, but the same shit. Well over 10k. Was it worth it..Eh..kinda.. It was fun for sure. Had alot of great times learning alot about my car, having extreme help from fellow members.

Would I do it again, NO. Didn't get the real full potential out of my car/setup, but I was over 300whp on pump gas. My next car will be RWD or AWD. Too much money for little to show. This is my view though, too many headaches with my car. Need alot of patience and time and money to get alot out of it. I tried it, had fun. But am moving on from this mazda.

[Captain KRM P5]

depends on you definition of "worth it." from a money/investment standpoint, no. i've spend probably $35,000 including the total price of the car and i will probably be at point where for all intents purposes stock Evos and STis are from the factory. from a speed standpoint you can grab a new mustang GT with a V8 for right around $25,000 and be in the 13s from the day you drive off the lot. factor in the time, the hassle, the frustration, the shit breaking here and there and you see where i am going with this. from that array of standpoints, its not worth it.

i think its pretty unrealistic to estimate that $10,000 will put you above the 400whp reliably. just my .02

this is why i started buying older rx-7s - fun to drive, relatively cheap and easy to make quicker than stock for not much money. if the thing falls apart i don't feel so bad not having spent much on the car. for $10,000 you could build a hell of a first or second gen rx-7 that is plenty fast, and if you work it right you probably could put the cost of the car itself in that 10k.

all that above though is playing devils advocate. in fact for all that to come from me is like career suicide :) telling people not to mod proteges what am i saying! however, if you look at the car from the standpoint that you are building something semi unique and not cookie cutter, as well as the satisfaction of not taking the easy way out, then its totally worth it. for me it was worth it to learn how to build/take apart engines, transmissions, suspension work, electronics, engine management tuning, etc etc. I have a whole new appreciation for automobiles. For those that might think I am being hypocritical by saying all this and selling parts you could not be more wrong - I encourage anyone who talks to me or calls for advice to have reasonable goals with a protege. It can easily be made into a much more fun to drive balanced car with the right mods. If you're looking for a quick cheap way to make straight line drag-car like performance its not the right car.

[Fudgie]

In my opinion its not worth it. I have right around $4k in my car (forged internals,smic,hardpipes,vibrant, afc, wb, welded diff) w/ all labor done by me. I'm only running 11-12 psi because that seems to be where the injectors max out. If I had a dyno, I guessing I would be at the 210-220 range, so I SHOULD be able to run w/ a stock evo. If I want to have more reliable muscle, I need timing control, more fuel, fmic, and a more efficient turbo so add another $2200 for a grand total of roundabout $6-7k in just parts alone to be near the 300 whp range. Ken hit the nail right on the head w/ his first paragraph. Buy a used Evo RS and toss a $300 ebay exhaust and a $25 mbc on it. Buy a $100 tactrix cable and an "eflash" from Jestertuning for $52 and you will be 300whp if not more. I did this for a guy and his evo anihliates my car.

[msprotege2nr]

I would say after spending 30,000 seperate from the cost of the car... no I wouldn't have done it. I wish that I would have just left it stock. The farther and farther you go, it gets harder and harder to put it back to stock if you want to get rid of it.... or you will lose even more money since people don't value the mods. As of now, I wish I had left it stock. I wouldn't have spent the money on the broken things that should have been covered under warranty. The other point that supports spending the money is, all the positive feedback you get along the way... show or go, you get all the compliments. But that is just something that you have temporarily....

[arlsmazdaspeed]

IMO , I would make the decision yours to keep or sell, your gonna be the one who has to put up with your car or put out with your car. I decided to put out and build my MSP to my choice, but I plan on never getting rid of this car. I made my decision when I first drove my car off the lot. And I'm still happy with it, so you gotta follow how you feel with the car. Happy = keep it , sad = get rid of it...

[Alejo_NIN]

many of us msp'ers have the MSP not for how fast it is, but the rarety and beautifulness of it all...

yes, we went thru hell when our LSD's broke....
pain in the ass to change a faulty WGA...
fucking anoying clunk
and the "HARD-TO-GET-RID-OF" turkey from hell
but all in all, is the best car i've ever had..
it was fucking fun to drive...made people look and ask stupid questions like "is that an evo?"
what other car gets that??

anyways, like ken said...is all a matter of your choice...and if you play your cards right, 10k dollars in a MSP is alot of money
but if you are including in those 10k: rims, tinted windows, best audio money can buy and stupid shit like that that won't make the car go fast...of course it won't be worth it...now you spend those 10k on cryo'ing the transmission, welding the lsd, a killer suspension set up, bigger turbo, forged internals, haltech, fuel delivery and stuff...you will spend less than 8g's and be in the 12 second 1/4 braket...
which, believe, IS FUCKING FAST..you'l be eating alive anything that moves on the street ( well, not anything,...but alot of it)

make up your mind...think about...you still need to buy that other car when you already have the MSP...

i bet if you just aim 4k RIGHT now towards your msp, it'll make you think twice before selling it

i said!

[meinp5]

I know you're talking specifically about the MSP, but I have realized that there are a lot of guys with P5's that do full builds with the MAM thumper turbo kits, forged internals, LSD. Pretty much the works...then less than a year later they are parting out and selling. I have not dumped a ton of money into my car, but just from reading their posts I don't think I would ever do that to my P5.

[Donas64]

I don't own an MSP but I do own a P5 and would not sink $1 much less $10K penny into modding it to go faster. Why? Because it's just not worth it. I love my P5 stock and despite me cursing it's anemic motor, I'm satisfied with it's good looks and fun handling. But the FS-DE is just a terrible starting point if you want to make good power. As far as the MSP is concerned, do some basic mods if you must. Maybe even an FMIC but it looks good stock, isn't fast but decently quick. Enjoy it for what it is, or trade it and get that beasty lightning if you're after power. That is a fun & good looking truck.

In the end the choice if yours to make and there are quite a few AMAZING modded MSP's on this site that just make my jaw drop but those people had to sink a LOT of cash into the cars and even more to keep em running well but IMHO: Don't sink big money into an MSP. Enjoy it for what it is or get rid of it.

http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/pickup/112_0306_z+2003_ford_f_150_svt_lightning_pickup+fr ont_right.jpg

http://www.autoworld.com.my/klims2000/images/gallery/Ford_SVT_F150_Lightning.jpg

Ford needs to build this SVT too

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/SVT-Ford-Lightning-Concept.jpg

[lisevolution]

I was having this conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend. He's a firebird guy who at one point had a sub 10 second 84 Trans-Am, and now drives a Blazer Extreme and rides a GSX-R 900. I'm at the point with my MSP where I've done 95% of the bolt-on's and now to get to the next step I have to forge, change the head, cams, turbo etc. My goal was to get to 300whp and be able to take on the STi's and Evo's.

He said this to me, "you have to make a decision at some point what you really want. Do you want to drive a street car, or a race car? Once you get to that next level you have to be prepared to take care of a race car, meaning that stuff breaks all the time even when you're not beating on it."

Just think about that before you go and spend the money. Really made me think... Now I'm tetering on taking a much closer look at the new TL-Type S...

[meinp5]

Thats great advise...probably why a lot of people jump ship after they do the big builds. Its always the small stuff.


I was having this conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend. He's a firebird guy who at one point had a sub 10 second 84 Trans-Am, and now drives a Blazer Extreme and rides a GSX-R 900. I'm at the point with my MSP where I've done 95% of the bolt-on's and now to get to the next step I have to forge, change the head, cams, turbo etc. My goal was to get to 300whp and be able to take on the STi's and Evo's.

He said this to me, "you have to make a decision at some point what you really want. Do you want to drive a street car, or a race car? Once you get to that next level you have to be prepared to take care of a race car, meaning that stuff breaks all the time even when you're not beating on it."

Just think about that before you go and spend the money. Really made me think... Now I'm tetering on taking a much closer look at the new TL-Type S...

[MrDiggler]

Good timing with these questions. I've been struggling with them myself for the last week or so. I can't believe I'm even considering parting with my Spicy, but I am. I don't really know which way I'm going to go yet.

The idea of a turbo'd IS300 has hit me. There seems to be decent support for this, but unfortunately I haven't found an IS300 forum that holds a candle to this one, and that would suck. I like the idea of something a bit roomier, more comfortable, a little classier, and of course with power oversteer when I want it, lol. I'm 36 now and feel the itch to move up to more of a big boy's toy. I want four doors and I've always liked the IS300 (I've always thought the styling was similar to the MSP), but couldn't afford one when I was considering a new ride three years ago. Now they've come down a bunch and '02 and up have 5-speeds available.

This all hit me the other morning when I turned onto an empty street and romped on the gas, only to get massive wheelspin in first and half of second. I started wondering just how much worse that was going to be when I put the new motor and FMIC in and get 240+ to the wheels. I'm only at 169 whp now. My street racing days are pretty much over and I'd prefer to be able to have fun with excessive power to weight at lower speeds.

I don't know what to do. I'm tempted to pass Sparky on to someone else while resale is decent and liquidate the 6k +/- worth of spares I have on hand (killer forged motor, perfect tranny w/ welded diff, Ion FMIC, Goldlines/Illuminas, spare seat skins and a bunch more.) I know I would miss this car so much though, and I wouldn't do anything without driving an IS300 first. I'm betting the connected-to-the-road factor won't hold a candle to what I've got now. Arrggghh...decisions, decisions.

[MSP608]

i call dibs on the race motor! haha jk but really why dont you install that? im sure youd be very happy about keeping your msp with a beast motor under the hood. ive been at that point a couple times where i just feel my msp isnt adequate for my needs, but i think im getting past that. plus im already 5k in excluding cost of the car.

[Alejo_NIN]

believe me when i say this...IT GETS WORST
my friend is running 250+ to the wheels...it is a pain in the ass to get off the hole wihtout spinning...

but i guess is a trade for the upper rpm power..
it think this happens to every car

there has to be a trade off...and like somene else said..

you gotta think if you want to drive a car or a race car


Good timing with these questions. I've been struggling with them myself for the last week or so. I can't believe I'm even considering parting with my Spicy, but I am. I don't really know which way I'm going to go yet.

The idea of a turbo'd IS300 has hit me. There seems to be decent support for this, but unfortunately I haven't found an IS300 forum that holds a candle to this one, and that would suck. I like the idea of something a bit roomier, more comfortable, a little classier, and of course with power oversteer when I want it, lol. I'm 36 now and feel the itch to move up to more of a big boy's toy. I want four doors and I've always liked the IS300 (I've always thought the styling was similar to the MSP), but couldn't afford one when I was considering a new ride three years ago. Now they've come down a bunch and '02 and up have 5-speeds available.

This all hit me the other morning when I turned onto an empty street and romped on the gas, only to get massive wheelspin in first and half of second. I started wondering just how much worse that was going to be when I put the new motor and FMIC in and get 240+ to the wheels. I'm only at 169 whp now. My street racing days are pretty much over and I'd prefer to be able to have fun with excessive power to weight at lower speeds.

I don't know what to do. I'm tempted to pass Sparky on to someone else while resale is decent and liquidate the 6k +/- worth of spares I have on hand (killer forged motor, perfect tranny w/ welded diff, Ion FMIC, Goldlines/Illuminas, spare seat skins and a bunch more.) I know I would miss this car so much though, and I wouldn't do anything without driving an IS300 first. I'm betting the connected-to-the-road factor won't hold a candle to what I've got now. Arrggghh...decisions, decisions.

[Hughes412]

I was having this conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend. He's a firebird guy who at one point had a sub 10 second 84 Trans-Am, and now drives a Blazer Extreme and rides a GSX-R 900. I'm at the point with my MSP where I've done 95% of the bolt-on's and now to get to the next step I have to forge, change the head, cams, turbo etc. My goal was to get to 300whp and be able to take on the STi's and Evo's.

He said this to me, "you have to make a decision at some point what you really want. Do you want to drive a street car, or a race car? Once you get to that next level you have to be prepared to take care of a race car, meaning that stuff breaks all the time even when you're not beating on it."

Just think about that before you go and spend the money. Really made me think... Now I'm tetering on taking a much closer look at the new TL-Type S...


That guy is very smart, though it sounds like he found out the hard way himself! If you want fast then buy a fast car. If you just like to tinker on cars and improve them (like I do) then in don't really matter what car you get. But just remimber this, 99.99999999% of the times you never get you money out of the car you modded.

[lisevolution]

When it comes to cars he is very smart. His bloodline is in racing, his father was/is an engine builder. I remember helping them out when I was like 15 putting together an '81 malibu with the sickest small-block I've ever seen. This was a V-8 that could rev to 11,500 without thinking twice. Such a beast this car was that it was near impossible to launch straight. They had to all sorts of frame welding above and beyond the cage they installed just to make sure the car wouldn't twist in half! When it comes down to it you really have to make a decision on whether you want to always be fixing something or drive comfortably knowing things won't just break on you and that your car is going to start on the first try in the morning. I'm borderline myself...I'm a die-hard Mazda fiend, I love my MSP, but to get what I want out of it means I'm going to be sacrificing alot of the other things I like about it. In order to max the power out the comfort will suffer, extra vibrations, exhaust noise, all the little creature comforts would be gone. If that's what I'm going for, then why not sell this car buy a nice relatively quick car for everyday and then buy an old RX-7 or god help me, a civic and do a build up from there... This is an age old tuner dilemna and the answer is different for everyone...

[MrDiggler]

This is an age old tuner dilemna and the answer is different for everyone...

That's really what it comes down to. Good way to put it.

[GhostMercury]

what ive decided i wanted to do what fix everything that is wrong with the msp and while doing so it will be faster and ill like it even more

weld the lsd
626 manifold
forged motor
clunk fix bracket
new exhaust manifold
FMIC - not only for function but it looks hot to
mpi tuner installed and tuned by kooldino - in my opinion best bang for the buck

and then be done..and be happy with my daily driven sports car...it will look hot, and still be able to burn most stuff on the road and someone is feeling a bit cocky

[funktownp5]

I have spent about $7,000 on modding my car, as it stands right now it will

run neck and neck with a stock EVO or STI (i have yet to turn the boost up

though, 6psi). Would i do it all over again?; NO, if i had the chance im sad to

say it though i wouldnt have bought the P5. I would have went the "have a

beater and a race car route", a beater not as a POS but a nice Toyota or

something. And another Honda or Nissan RWD as a race car, becuase parts

are ready available and most importantly CHEAP!!

[jeffmsp]

400whp is too much work. Buy a set of rods, install them yourself or have them installed. Get a EMS, some supporting mods be happy. I would not want have the problems of 400WHP lol even 300 flywheel hp is plenty fast, if you race a pony car just make sure its not in a straight line. I would just set your goals for low 13s on street tires at reasonable boost levels and be done there.

to give you some perspectivem after blowing a trans a motor a lsd and who knows what else will come, I am still well under the cost of a GSR swap in a Honda or a sr20det swap in a 240 for example (and I still beat them all the time, look better, handle better and have fun driving on rough roads hehe). I mean even if you beat the crap outta the car and go through a motor a year it would still take 2-3 years to get to the $ point most "import" tuners put into their cars motors as a base point so really there is nothing to complain about, and I am saying this the day after buying a new motor.

[jestermsp]

yea im on my second motor n trans too. first one blew up when car was stock lol but im thinkin by end o winter i'll be in somethin new im out o the mazda biz.

[MrDiggler]

400whp is too much work. Buy a set of rods, install them yourself or have them installed. Get a EMS, some supporting mods be happy. I would not want have the problems of 400WHP lol even 300 flywheel hp is plenty fast, if you race a pony car just make sure its not in a straight line. I would just set your goals for low 13s on street tires at reasonable boost levels and be done there.

to give you some perspectivem after blowing a trans a motor a lsd and who knows what else will come, I am still well under the cost of a GSR swap in a Honda or a sr20det swap in a 240 for example (and I still beat them all the time, look better, handle better and have fun driving on rough roads hehe). I mean even if you beat the crap outta the car and go through a motor a year it would still take 2-3 years to get to the $ point most "import" tuners put into their cars motors as a base point so really there is nothing to complain about, and I am saying this the day after buying a new motor.

So those other swaps we read about in the mags are not necessarily cheap swaps? I've wondered about that. They make it sound like a paycheck and a weekend gets you to tunerland.

[LinuxRacr]

Short answer, I would have bought an EVO if I could have back in 2001...They wern't out yet.. But then I wouldn't have learned all the cool stuff I now know, and met all the friends I have now. I guess I have had to go thru the experience of moding, and headaches to get to the point of clarity I have now. It has been a lot of fun, but a lot of money. A greater part of my 20's are tied up in this car..lol!

[LinuxRacr]

I was having this conversation with a friend of mine over the weekend. He's a firebird guy who at one point had a sub 10 second 84 Trans-Am, and now drives a Blazer Extreme and rides a GSX-R 900. I'm at the point with my MSP where I've done 95% of the bolt-on's and now to get to the next step I have to forge, change the head, cams, turbo etc. My goal was to get to 300whp and be able to take on the STi's and Evo's.

He said this to me, "you have to make a decision at some point what you really want. Do you want to drive a street car, or a race car? Once you get to that next level you have to be prepared to take care of a race car, meaning that stuff breaks all the time even when you're not beating on it."

Just think about that before you go and spend the money. Really made me think... Now I'm tetering on taking a much closer look at the new TL-Type S...

Best quote EVER!!

[Larone]

Best quote EVER!!
Agreed!
I have been in this situation for a while now too. After I installed the iON FMIC + CAI, TBE, Blitz SBC i-color EBC, along with some other minor mods, I'm at about 220whp +/- a few depending on the day and boost setting. I could run with my brother's Evo.......until he just installed his TBE and while I haven't run with him since that (I'm in ATL & he's in S. FL) I have driven his car and it's just so damn fast now. I'll be driving down to him for the holidays though so we'll see how it goes.
My point is, to keep up with those cars (STi, Evo etc.) requires a lot more from an MSP and while I have the $$ to get a built block etc. to run ~ 300whp, I'm not sure I want the headache of stuff breaking every now and then especially since personally I don't have the time to deal with it (Med. School). But given all that I love my MSP and I'll just try to keep it looking and running good as it is now without getting too crazy with it.
It's a tough decision!

[MSP608]

hey you have any videos of your car? i havent seen too many people with the ion tbe anymore.

[Larone]

No videos sorry. I have pics though. I'll be driving down to S. FL this Thursday so maybe I'll shoot some vids of my car and my brother's Evo.
http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/91/1/2/RL/91123132RL511516435.jpg
http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/91/1/2/RL/91122928RL359607756.jpg

[avarela86]

No videos sorry. I have pics though. I'll be driving down to S. FL this Thursday so maybe I'll shoot some vids of my car and my brother's Evo.
http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/91/1/2/RL/91123132RL511516435.jpg
http://photo-origin.tickle.com/image/91/1/2/RL/91122928RL359607756.jpg


Where in S Fl. I live in weston. PM an Addy or number if you want to meet some of the locals.

[baconbitz]

So those other swaps we read about in the mags are not necessarily cheap swaps? I've wondered about that. They make it sound like a paycheck and a weekend gets you to tunerland.

You can do a good, realiable, sr20 swap with a few extra goodies for well under 3k.

Honestly this is the question that makes me think about selling my car all the time. I think about what I could be in for the same amount of money and how much faster it would be. However, I can't stand thinking that I would sell it because I like it so much.

[SLA]

It doesn't matter what kind of car you have. If you are in to fixing them up to go faster things are going to start to break, once you fix that the next weakest link will break and so and so on. If you are wanting to put down a good amount of power in any car its always wise to have another for a daily driver. You gotta pay to play, the question is how much fun do you want to have. Talk to some of the subie and evo guys and see if the have troubles with stuff breaking. I've seen quite a few wrx's owners with tons of money dumped into their cars sell it and go buy a cobra because it was just to hard to keep the car reliable. A few months later the cobra is breaking stuff. We do this as a hobby if you don't like working on your car then it's not for you.

[baconbitz]

It doesn't matter what kind of car you have. If you are in to fixing them up to go faster things are going to start to break, once you fix that the next weakest link will break and so and so on. If you are wanting to put down a good amount of power in any car its always wise to have another for a daily driver. You gotta pay to play, the question is how much fun do you want to have. Talk to some of the subie and evo guys and see if the have troubles with stuff breaking. I've seen quite a few wrx's owners with tons of money dumped into their cars sell it and go buy a cobra because it was just to hard to keep the car reliable. A few months later the cobra is breaking stuff. We do this as a hobby if you don't like working on your car then it's not for you.

Very true. I think this is one of those situations where the grass is always greener on the otherside. Your right though about stuff breaking all the time no matter what you drive, a friend of mine's brother had an STI modded to hell. Took it to the track one day and snapped a halfshaft launching it. Still ran a sub 2 second 60ft though(shocked)

[forcedboost]

Money is no object in this game. The desire to go fast has no monetary limits. People pay 60 grand for corvettes. People put 60 grand into a civic. There is one ultimate goal, and that goal is to haul balls. How hardcore are you. If you dont love tuning and tweaking and spending every dollar you have to go that much faster than this isn't for you. It doesnt matter if your fwd or awd, we all have the same goal. We will all break stuff, and we will all spend more money than we ever imagined. Also I refuse to daily drive my projects. The 2nd car is a must for someone that wants to play the mod game. There are plenty of people who are hardcore enough to daily drive there race cars and i have a lot of respect for those who do.

[MrDiggler]

Money is no object in this game. The desire to go fast has no monetary limits.

True, true. And to this end, however insane, I've finally decided what I'm going to do. The only way to get what I want is to make my MSP RWD. Go ahead and snicker. Someone has to try it at some point.
Before I can even begin to get serious about such a project I have to unload some other projects, like the GTX and the T/A. However, I might need the rear suspension and gas tank out of the GTX... should match up with an AWD Protege rear floorpan... maybe some Miata parts... hmmm...

I seriously can't make any promises about successfully pulling this off, but I can promise I'll try like hell. Two of the things on my must-have list are RWD and monster power, but I can't fathom getting rid of the MSP, so there's no other choice.