Jeff@Tri-Point Koni DA Custom Coilover Log

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Finally got pictures and here they are.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/StrutInserts.jpg

Koni Double Adjustable Race Strut Inserts

Front Strut Insert: 8611-1257 Race
Rear Strut Insert: 8611-1259 Race

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Bumpadjuster.jpg

Bump Adjuster

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Reboundadjuster.jpg

Rebound Adjuster

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Protegebody.jpg

These are stock protege bodies that have already been cut and gutted. I'm going to do a final stock body measurement off my car.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Gladnut.jpg

Gland Nuts that are going to hold in the strut inserts

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/coilovercomponents.jpg

Left over coil-over sleeves and lower perches

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Camberplates.jpg

Camber Plates

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Strutinsertsbody.jpg

How the Strut Inserts fit inside the body, they will need modifications.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/gladnutbody.jpg


How close the gland nut is to the I.D. of the Strut

[low_psi]

Sweet. Did you get the 48m gland nuts?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Sweet. Did you get the 48m gland nuts?

yup, those gland nuts are 48x1.5.

[stdntDrvr]

nice!

[vindication]

purty. what will be the price on these and what is the adjustability?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

purty. what will be the price on these and what is the adjustability?

Ahh, we won't be selling these, this is just a project that I have decided to take up for my personal car autocrossing in STX Class.

[Earful]

So....what is going to be the benefit over stock tockicos....overall lower center of gravity?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

So....what is going to be the benefit over stock tockicos....overall lower center of gravity?
1. Lower the car more and retaining the suspension travel
2. Rebound & Compression Adjustment
3. More Digressive valving (Braking, Acceleration, Slaloms Basically anything under 4inch/second movement will have more control)
4. Being able to handle higher spring rates/sway bars so you are able to make the car rotate better and smoother
5. Corner balancing
6. Camber adjustments

[Earful]

Looking forward to the results once completed!....

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/dynostruts.jpg

dyno strut inserts

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/dynographs.jpg

dyno graphs

[low_psi]

Don't they have 5settings?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Don't they have 5settings?

The dyno graphs are on min and max settings. Theres a set # of compression clicks however the rebound has around 2 3/4 turns.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

BTW, I have an awesome swaybar in the works too. Ill take a picture of the arms and bushings. Its going to be awesome (shocked)

[Earful]

Never seen a strut compression dyno...diidnt even know this existed. The max here is 300lbs at full compression? I need you guys to contact me here in Sacramento, about setting up my car for Sonoma!

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

which swaybar arm should i use? (enguard)

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Swaybarcomponents.JPG

[nazgul350r]

sucks to have too many choices?

[low_psi]

Jeff, use the drilled one instead of the slotted. You'll have plenty of adjustment for a street car and won't have to check it for slip.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

The bodies are threaded

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Threadedstrutbodies.JPG

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Threadedstrutbodies1.JPG

[low_psi]

Did you cut those threads on a lathe? Looking good.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Did you cut those threads on a lathe? Looking good.

NOpe, they were hand done.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Coilover%20collers.JPG


Coilover collars for the sleeves.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Coiloversleeve.jpg

Inside the Coil Over sleeve

[khaosman]

Wow, awesome stuff... wish you'd make more :D

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Strutsrevalved.JPG

Struts being revalved

[CustomMSP]

Looks very good!! Are the second set of tabs on the bodies for the stock length sway bar end links?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Looks very good!! Are the second set of tabs on the bodies for the stock length sway bar end links?

Both of the Swaybar holes are at the same length as stock.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Wish I had my Camera here, the rears are done and the fronts are in the works. We've been waiting on some stiffer springs to put inside the strut inserts.

[low_psi]

Such a tease. What rates did you did on again?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Such a tease. What rates did you did on again?

I'm starting with 600 fronts and 500 rears.

[vinnie mack]

Tri-Point still got any of their Protege's they ran in the Speed WC?, show a pic of your car!, awesome fab work!

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Tri-Point still got any of their Protege's they ran in the Speed WC?, show a pic of your car!, awesome fab work!

All the Proteges have been sold to some racers in Puerto Rico

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Coilover%20Struts.JPG

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Bump%20Adjuster.JPG

[vindication]

jealous

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Rear%20Struts.JPG

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Glad%20Nut%20Final.JPG

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Install.jpg

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

rears should be done tomorrow. The camber plates didn't work out as planned and we had to make new ones for the front and rear.

[low_psi]

What's the issue with the plates and how are those threaded collars held in place? I know you cut little rings for them, but they don't look like they are on the bottom.

PS- I'm jealous you did this first.

[Earful]

Very nice work....

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

What's the issue with the plates and how are those threaded collars held in place? I know you cut little rings for them, but they don't look like they are on the bottom.

PS- I'm jealous you did this first.


http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Coilover%20collers.JPG
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Coiloversleeve.jpg



The groove inside the Coil-over sleeve rests on those collars. The pic above is before they were welded.


The Camber plates didnt bolt up right and just needed to be longer.

[low_psi]

Oh ok, I understand that picture of the collar now. Neat.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

We had to use a 6" spring instead of the 8" spring to get the car low enough for the front. So both front and rear springs are 6"

[CustomMSP]

What are the spring rates again?

Thanks and excellent work!

[SuperProtege5]

Any chance you could make these for purchase in the future? I'm sure alot of us guys who race could benefit from your research and expertise.

[low_psi]

What are the spring rates again?

Thanks and excellent work!

600#F 500#R

Superprotege5, if you'd like a set I can make them.

Jeff, I can't believe you were able to fit a 6" spring in the rear, I have an 8" right now.

[CustomMSP]

600#F 500#R

Any other chassis mods on the car?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Car.JPG

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/RearAdjustment.JPG

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

CustomMSP - I will have new swaybar soon, the spring rates are not final as of yet. It might be to stiff in the rear but I won't know until I auto-x it on the 9th and 10th of December.

SuperProtege5 - I will have to get a price, they pretty expensive because they are double adjustable plus you have to revalve them.

low_psi - We couldn't get the car low enough in the front with the 8" spring, it was hitting the sway bar bracket.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

After driving the car more, the rear is to stiff for the street. The seems to handle pretty well, its not an overwhelming amount of oversteer, only when you want it to be. The back end just sits nicely and hugs the corners... I'm just afraid one of these days, one those bumps on the road are going to make me go off the cliff.

[Brian MP5T]

Nice job Jeff.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Front%20Clearance.JPG

Front Tire Clearance

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Rear%20Clearance.JPG

Rear Tire Clearance

[SuperProtege5]

how much would you charge low psi?

[low_psi]

Jeff, SLAMMED!!! Wait until you try to put some meats on there, the room disappears quickly :) Very happy you got everything sorted out. Have you aligned the car yet, numbers?

SuperProtege5, it depends what kind of setup you want. I'll PM you some questions.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Jeff, SLAMMED!!! Wait until you try to put some meats on there, the room disappears quickly :) Very happy you got everything sorted out. Have you aligned the car yet, numbers?

SuperProtege5, it depends what kind of setup you want. I'll PM you some questions.

Driving around the street more and the shocks are turned up almost 1 full turn now and the bouncing went away. Now it rides sort of like a truck.

The rears have a 2 finger gap.

I dont have the numbers here, I will try to get them soon.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Update: I forgot to mention that i disconnected the front sway bar.

[vinnie mack]

lookin good man.. keep us posted, this is fun to read lol

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

lookin good man.. keep us posted, this is fun to read lol

THanks man


Current settings:

Front Shocks

Rebound: 1/2 Turn from Full Soft
Bump: 2 Clicks from Full Soft

Rear Shocks

Rebound: 1 1/2 Turns from Fll Soft
Bump: 5 clicks from Full Soft

Any higher rebound settings in the front will make the car push.

[low_psi]

bump for some great shit.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

bump for some great shit.
Did a tire fitment test. 235/40/17 with a 17x8 47+ Offset fit easily in the front. The rears will need to get the lip rolled. Of course this is using a coil-over so I will have more clearance than the stock spring perch...

BTW I'm running 4 degrees of camber in the front and 3 degrees in the rear.

Another thing, the Stock MSP wheel 17x7 with a 215/40/17 weighs 41.4lbs and the racing hart 17x8 with 235/40/17 toyo ra1 weighs 38.4lbs

[low_psi]

Now send me a dead tire :) That's some mad camber fool, what are your toe settings at?

EDIT- I was running some numbers today and I have a better handle on why the SWC were running those spring rates, but I'm still not sure about the lack of a FSB.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Bought some Hankook RS-2 Z212s today 235/40/17. I should have pics soon.

[khaosman]

Beautiful! It looks so great, totally slammed :D Can't wait to see it with those meaty tires on it. I bet it handles even better than it looks--I fell in love with the AWR coilovers when I drove xelderx's car. I bet these are even nicer

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

I got my 17x8 wheels w/ 235/40/17 tires on the car. The rear lip was rolled and sanded down a little bit. Ill let you know if it rubs or not and ill have pics tonight.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Front%20Clearance2.JPG

Front Tire Clearance

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Rear%20Clearance2.JPG

Rear Tire Clearance

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Random%20Wheels.JPG

Random Shot

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Rear%20Shot.JPG

Rear Shot

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Front%20Wheel.JPG

Front Wheel

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Rear%20Wheel.JPG

Rear Wheel

[Revs]

Nice work Jeff. I would love to do something like this since I already have the Ground Controls.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Nice work Jeff. I would love to do something like this since I already have the Ground Controls.

thanks man.

[low_psi]

Where did you find those wheels? I've only ever seen them in 15" and 18"

The car looks sick, you need to take some good daytime shots tomorrow.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Where did you find those wheels? I've only ever seen them in 15" and 18"

The car looks sick, you need to take some good daytime shots tomorrow.

Ya, i get the special treatment. :)

Ill take some shots tomorrow but my camera sucks.

[MrDiggler]

Damn, I don't know how you're not rubbing. After the roughly 2" drop from the Goldlines/Illuminas I'm rubbing the inner fenders with worn 215/45/17's on stock wheels. I would soooo love to have some meaty 235's on there with slightly wider wheels.

It looks awesome though, and thanks for going to the trouble to post all of this. Objectivity is a good thing.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Damn, I don't know how you're not rubbing. After the roughly 2" drop from the Goldlines/Illuminas I'm rubbing the inner fenders with worn 215/45/17's on stock wheels. I would soooo love to have some meaty 235's on there with slightly wider wheels.

It looks awesome though, and thanks for going to the trouble to post all of this. Objectivity is a good thing.


Well its the camber, i'm runnin extreme camber ranges that a normal street car would not run.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/car3.jpg
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/car4.jpg

[Revs]

that looks great jeff

[Hughes412]

So are you going to be selling these?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

So are you going to be selling these?
Talking it over, we would have to become a sponsor on here again. This is what we could be offering

Koni Single Adjustable Race Inserts, w/ a Ground Control Coil-over Sleeve, Eibach Springs, Front and Rear Camber Plates. Basically ready to run

$2100.00 for the custom kit + $200.00 core exchange

Koni Double Adjustable Race Inserts, w/ a Ground Control Coil-over Sleeve, Eibach Springs, Front and Rear Camber Plates. Basically ready to run

$2500.00 for the custom kit + $200.00 core exchange

Once we get your original cores then we would refund you the $200.00

Let me know if you guys would be interested.

[low_psi]

Jeff, find some sunlight for pictures :) Do you guys sell your own camber plates or are they AWRs?

I'd be happy to do these for people but the tap alone is over $200. I doubt any local machine shops will have metrics that large, so I'll probably be sending mine to Jeff to get tapped.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Jeff, find some sunlight for pictures :) Do you guys sell your own camber plates or are they AWRs?

I'd be happy to do these for people but the tap alone is over $200. I doubt any local machine shops will have metrics that large, so I'll probably be sending mine to Jeff to get tapped.

haha, ill try to find some sunlight. Geez! They were taken in the morning. We made these camber paltes for my car but we would be using AWR's probably.

[AODfan]

Well its the camber, i'm runnin extreme camber ranges that a normal street car would not run.

What camber are you running?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

What camber are you running?

4 degrees in the front and 3 degrees in the rear.

[MrDiggler]

Since you seem to be pretty experienced with various fitments, what are the odds a 235/40 on a 17x7.5 +40ish would fit with only 1 degree neg. camber? Also assume coilovers and not stock struts. I have to wonder if it could be done...*drool*

[low_psi]

Diggler, I will be test fitting a 235/40 on my 17x7.5 +48 wheels if Jeff can find me a pulloff from the SWC cars. Right now with -1* and 225/45s the rears rub enough that I can't drive on the street with them because they rub under high load(bumps). Rolling the fenders will help, but I can't imagine adding another 8mm + more tire with only -1* of camber. This is with about 1.5" of lowering.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

going auto-x'ing tomorrow. Ill let you know if we changed anything.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Diggler, I will be test fitting a 235/40 on my 17x7.5 +48 wheels if Jeff can find me a pulloff from the SWC cars. Right now with -1* and 225/45s the rears rub enough that I can't drive on the street with them because they rub under high load(bumps). Rolling the fenders will help, but I can't imagine adding another 8mm + more tire with only -1* of camber. This is with about 1.5" of lowering.

Do you need a full set of tires? or just one? Shipping tires can be pretty pricey.

[low_psi]

Just one. I can send you a prepaid FedEx shipping tag. I wonder how well it'll fit on a 7.5" wheel. Goodluck tomorrow.

[MrDiggler]

I'm thinking a 235 will be okay on a 7.5" wheel. Not ideal, but at least you won't be likely to curb the wheel, lol. For reference, my T/A runs 295/50's (rear) on a 15x8 wheel, which is right at the limit of all that is good and right.

I'm not worried about rolling the lips. Someone inexplicably already rolled the drivers rear in the 7k miles before I bought the car, and I'll happily roll the other side to match if needed. The damn inner wheel wells are what I seem to keep hitting on. I need to hit them with a light coat of white paint (on top of Armor All) and then drive for a day to see exactly where the tires are rubbing.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

wow, the car is competitive, but not with me driving it. Using a full face helmet or something messed with my mind and I couldn't judge how fast I was going in each corner and I made the car push.

Last night, it rained all night. Craig (pro solo and solo2 champ) went out with the course completely wet... Lets just say he gave the evo's and sti's a run for there money. He ended up fourth and wasn't to far behind them. The STX class ran in the 2nd group which the course was a lot dryer than the 1st run group. Even the leader of the STX class was only faster than him by a second or so. He was for sure that if he ran in our group that he would have had a faster time than the leader.

Thats very good news. Ill have times when they post em.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Update: Something happened to my car today. I believe I'm a new member of the "blown limited slips" Might be an excuse to put a quaife in sooner than I thought.

[jmv]

don'tcha love it

[low_psi]

No good Jeff...
-I'll be on AIM on I get these papers turned in.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

I have a Corksport S pipe and AWR Front and Rear motor mounts w/ left and right side inserts on the way. I'll be seeing waht to do about the LSD. Either a Quaife or the stock unit welded up.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/results.JPG

Not me driving but the course was really wet so, obviously the awd cars have a little bit more advantage. Also we were on full treaded Hankook RS-2 Z212's w/ tire pressure of about 37. They weren't rolling over.

BTW, The evo and majority of the STI's were on the yokohamas.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

muhaha, motor mounts are in baby! Now awaiting my s/j pipe.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

One word: Quaife
Thanks very much.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Some pics of an instructor driving my car.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Hogan-vi.jpg
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/HoganAgain-vi.jpg

[Bala]

Great shots!

[xelderx]

How is the handling with those spring rates? Seems like it would be a little understeer prone.

[Greensleeper]

Simply amazing! Killer coil-overs and streamroller tires, not to mention uber-sexy wheels!

[jmv]

damn, i'm still jealous.

[CustomMSP]

Nice. What did the instructor think of the setup?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

How is the handling with those spring rates? Seems like it would be a little understeer prone.

The front sway bar is still disconnected. The car rotates very nicely.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Nice. What did the instructor think of the setup?

He drives a civic but I think he said the setup could be worked on. However, the car was having locking up issues in the rear and I don't think he realized it. The ABS fuse was out so next time we are going to just leave the fuse in and try it like that.

[xelderx]

The front sway bar is still disconnected. The car rotates very nicely.

I see. I used to have my car setup that way as well, but I can't remember what springrates I was using then. What brake pads are you using?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

I see. I used to have my car setup that way as well, but I can't remember what springrates I was using then. What brake pads are you using?

Axxis Ultimates front and Posi Quiet Ceramic rears, why did you change from your setup?

[xelderx]

Axxis Ultimates front and Posi Quiet Ceramic rears, why did you change from your setup?

I just felt the car was still rolling too much in the front and decreasing tire life by killing the outside of the tires and overheating them. I think I had 450# springs up front at the time. I was on R' comps though so the extra grip probably caused a lot more roll in the front than your setup that a lot of negative camber couldn't overcome. I was also on far less engineered struts so the springs weren't controlled very well. I know several STX MSPs that swapped out for the smaller Protege5 front swaybar, but no one has really done much reporting on that. I'm not very familar with the posi Quiet pads. I know they are supposed to be equal to stock. I've got stock pads in the rear of my car and on street tires I can lock the rear up pretty easily. It's not nearly as bad on R' comps, but thats probably because I'm more sensitive to them and subconciously adjust so that I don't lock them up. I've been thinking of installing a bias valve, but I hate working on brakes.

[xelderx]

It just really sucks that most of the really well setup Proteges are on at opposite corners of the US and the only time we would ever see each other is at a National event where we couldn't really test out each other's cars.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

It just really sucks that most of the really well setup Proteges are on at opposite corners of the US and the only time we would ever see each other is at a National event where we couldn't really test out each other's cars.

Ya, well the guys out here in my class are national champions. I'll be able to see how well my car does against them. Do you plan on going to the national tour events out here? I think i'm only doing the west coast side.

[xelderx]

So far the tour dates aren't lining up with my schedule. I'll be at a few Pro Solos though. I'm in the same boat as far as competition goes locally. The 4th place FSP car from Nationals is in NC along with what should have been the 2nd place car, but he threw it away on the last run in Topeka. Everytime there is a large event on the East Coast I have to run against both of them.

[Inspector 24]

How is the handling with those spring rates? Seems like it would be a little understeer prone.

I would think so as well. Slightly different car, but on my STX MX6, 500f 500r with a 19mm rear bar (stock is 12mm) the car pushed horribly. Dropping the front to 445 solved it quite nicely. However I do have the stock front bar still connected.

I would imagine this has something to do with why your setup would work. Have you run it with the front bar connected?

FYI, the Nat'l Tour that was planned for Miller Motorspors Park has now been changed to a single Course format Pro Solo. It's going to be very fun :)
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/229492.aspx


Ryan

[low_psi]

I think Jeff's car rotates well because his roll stiffness front to rear is still pretty equal due to the fact his front swaybar is disconnected. Plus he runs a lot of negative camber so the front end isn't as prone to "washing out" as the wheels decamber as alot of other setups.

[xelderx]

Yea...He just uses a different method to balance out the car. He is saving a little weight by not using the swaybar and every little but helps. The only real disadvantage is the stiff ride while daily driving.

[low_psi]

Yep, I'm wary of bumping up my front spring rates any more while using the stock sway bar.

Pulloff available, Jeff?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/Jeff.JPG



Chasing after the Lock up issue. I'm using Axxis Ultimates in the front and Posi Quiet Ceramic in the rear.

I did a little more practice and as I stiffened up the rear the car rotated better however, I felt that the brake lock up in the rear kicked in sooner. So I'm going to try changing out my rear pads to an Axxis Ultimate. Ill keep you guys updated.

[Inspector 24]

Jeff, The brakes on the Protege's and the MX6's are similar. I was having the same issue running Hawk HP+ all around. The solution I found was to reduce the pad area by grinding of approximately 1/4" off either end. It settled the car A LOT and allowed me to brake a LOT harder without risk of lock up.

This was especially nice for track duty as she tended to get a bit squirrely even in straight line braking. But no more, mash the brakes and the car stays straight and true :)

Ryan

[xelderx]

I've been using stock pads in the rear and haven't had any noticable problem. I could probably still lock the rears up before the fronts under threshold braking, but I've learned to modulate just enough to keep the rears from locking. I might start drilling holes in the rear pads to free them up and allow me a little more freedom with the brake pressure on the fronts, but I'm so used to the way the car trailbrakes now I might just leave it alone.

[moxnix]

If your rear is locking up you want something that either grabs quicker in the front or slower in the rear.

On the Miata I have front lock up issues so I use Cobalt GT's in the rear and stock pads in the front.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

I've been using stock pads in the rear and haven't had any noticable problem. I could probably still lock the rears up before the fronts under threshold braking, but I've learned to modulate just enough to keep the rears from locking. I might start drilling holes in the rear pads to free them up and allow me a little more freedom with the brake pressure on the fronts, but I'm so used to the way the car trailbrakes now I might just leave it alone.

I would agree but at the same time I disagree because depending on how stiff the rear of the car is from Rebound/Bump adjustments, it's a new learning curve with braking. =(

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Jeff, The brakes on the Protege's and the MX6's are similar. I was having the same issue running Hawk HP+ all around. The solution I found was to reduce the pad area by grinding of approximately 1/4" off either end. It settled the car A LOT and allowed me to brake a LOT harder without risk of lock up.

This was especially nice for track duty as she tended to get a bit squirrely even in straight line braking. But no more, mash the brakes and the car stays straight and true :)

Ryan

They don't make Hawk HP+ pads for the MSP, I was very sad when I heard that. I'm looking into Porterfield R4S's (Spelling?)

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/jeff2.jpg

[xelderx]

I would agree but at the same time I disagree because depending on how stiff the rear of the car is from Rebound/Bump adjustments, it's a new learning curve with braking. =(

Exactly. I'll probably start playing around with it though since it's much easier than installing a brake bias adjuster. I'll have to relearn my braking for this season anyway with the new, higher springrates and much wider tires.

[moxnix]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/jeff2.jpg

Looking at this image how much negative camber are you running in the rear? Your contact patch on the rear tire might be part of your issue with brake lockup.

Or it could just be the angle of the picture.

Let me know how you like the R4S's if you get them I have been looking at them for once I get my car back on the road (engine swaps take a long time the first time)

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/jeff3.JPG
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/nicole1.jpg

two more.

[xelderx]

I just noticed you guys use really small cones.

[khaosman]

I just noticed you guys use really small cones.

haha yea, they are almost like little kiddy soccer cones. I have some of those I bring out as a joke. Now my dogs have claimed them as their own chew toys.

Jeff, I gotta say it again, I love how the car looks. It is now my desktop (2thumbs)

[Inspector 24]

It does look very hott out there :)

Coming to Utah anytime soon? Like...maybe for the Miller Motorsports Park Pro Solo? :D :D

Ryan

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

I just noticed you guys use really small cones.

Haha, I'd hate to run into your cones... (headshake

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

haha yea, they are almost like little kiddy soccer cones. I have some of those I bring out as a joke. Now my dogs have claimed them as their own chew toys.

Jeff, I gotta say it again, I love how the car looks. It is now my desktop (2thumbs)

Thanks for the compliment!

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

It does look very hott out there :)

Coming to Utah anytime soon? Like...maybe for the Miller Motorsports Park Pro Solo? :D :D

Ryan

hehe, I'm going to do all the events out here for the national tour plus maybe topeka. I haven't decided on that 100% just yet.

[xelderx]

Haha, I'd hate to run into your cones... (headshake

That is why I'm weary of using the DG widebody kit. One cone at 60mph and it will destroy it.

[low_psi]

Jeff, will you be with the team at Sebring? I can grab a pull off then...

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Jeff, will you be with the team at Sebring? I can grab a pull off then...

Nope, sorry =(

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/ppusadecal2.jpg

New ProPartsUSA Decals... My cars going to be a rice car soon...

[Inspector 24]

Jeff, you should absolutely come out. I'm on the BOD and I can PROMISE you it will be a blast :) Plus getting to see MMP is a treat, there will no doubt be action on the track you can watch inbetween racing/working :)

Ryan

[jmv]

<----

you see that??

Thats me being jealous. Love the setup, wish i could do something like that. One of these days....

[low_psi]

Nope, sorry =(

Tell them to bring you. LG brings the sales guys with the rest of the team. Easy way to get more exposure.

[Dave Mac]

Jeff-

Your car looks REALLY low. You may be out of your optimal suspension travel range. I ran my MSP and was very close to or beat most guys in Evos/STi's in STU. I only dropped my car about 1" up front from stock and maybe 3/4" rear.

Disconnecting the front swaybar is a great idea once you have coilovers on the car. I had serious wheel spin issues until I disconnected the front sway bar. It also helps you accelerate in transitions since the front end stays in better contact.

Negative camber seems like a lot at -4 and -3. I ran -3 up front and -1 rear with a 22mm rear bar. My toe settings were 0 the whole way around.

BTW Mistah Digglah, -1 deg camber in the rear fits a 245/45R16 on a 16x8 wheel just fine.

Joo guys got teh short memories.

Proof that the Dave Mac MSP setup works:
http://www.scca-susq.com/results/2006/06-05-28-axresults.html#finalbyclass

Oh, and after the event I dropped another full second in fun runs. This was not the only event I killed the Subies in STX. Don't get me wrong this isn't about me, it's about the car. The MSP is one little a**kicker of a car.

Dave Mac

[xelderx]

BTW Mistah Digglah, -1 deg camber in the rear fits a 245/45R16 on a 16x8 wheel just fine.



Any good pictures of that. I've been debating putting 245s on my FD rims.

[Dave Mac]

I'll dig around for you and see what I can come up with. I've posted them before here somewhere.

[xelderx]

I'll dig around for you and see what I can come up with. I've posted them before here somewhere.

No worries. I found them myself. I actually remember seeing them when they were first posted...just slipped my mind.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Jeff-

Your car looks REALLY low. You may be out of your optimal suspension travel range. I ran my MSP and was very close to or beat most guys in Evos/STi's in STU. I only dropped my car about 1" up front from stock and maybe 3/4" rear.

Disconnecting the front swaybar is a great idea once you have coilovers on the car. I had serious wheel spin issues until I disconnected the front sway bar. It also helps you accelerate in transitions since the front end stays in better contact.

Negative camber seems like a lot at -4 and -3. I ran -3 up front and -1 rear with a 22mm rear bar. My toe settings were 0 the whole way around.

BTW Mistah Digglah, -1 deg camber in the rear fits a 245/45R16 on a 16x8 wheel just fine.

Joo guys got teh short memories.

Proof that the Dave Mac MSP setup works:
http://www.scca-susq.com/results/2006/06-05-28-axresults.html#finalbyclass

Oh, and after the event I dropped another full second in fun runs. This was not the only event I killed the Subies in STX. Don't get me wrong this isn't about me, it's about the car. The MSP is one little a**kicker of a car.

Dave Mac


My car is low, but I do have enough suspension travel because the struts are shorter than stock and by a considerable amount. I'm not 100% sure on what hte optimal suspension travel is as of right now. I've beat subies in my class and even some of the STU guys but unfortunately the people I'm up against are beyond my level. The National champ of the STX Class in Pro Solo and Solo is in my region, the Pro Solo STU Champ is also in my region as well and hes usually 1 sec ahead of the STX Leader.

[xelderx]

My car is low, but I do have enough suspension travel because the struts are shorter than stock and by a considerable amount. I'm not 100% sure on what hte optimal suspension travel is as of right now. I've beat subies in my class and even some of the STU guys but unfortunately the people I'm up against are beyond my level. The National champ of the STX Class in Pro Solo and Solo is in my region, the Pro Solo STU Champ is also in my region as well and hes usually 1 sec ahead of the STX Leader.

My AWR struts are extremely short as well. I have the car on jackstands right now and it looks like the stands are under the control arms instead of the framerails. I haven't bottomed mine out yet and I have hit a few bumps hard enough to make the tires barely rub.

I feel you on the National level drivers being local. Two of the best national FSP cars are within an hour or so of my house. It's kind of frustrating when I'm at a divisional and some goofball driver with a half prepped car gets 1st place in a no talent class and I'm stuck fighting for 3rd or 4th in FSP.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

My AWR struts are extremely short as well. I have the car on jackstands right now and it looks like the stands are under the control arms instead of the framerails. I haven't bottomed mine out yet and I have hit a few bumps hard enough to make the tires barely rub.

I feel you on the National level drivers being local. Two of the best national FSP cars are within an hour or so of my house. It's kind of frustrating when I'm at a divisional and some goofball driver with a half prepped car gets 1st place in a no talent class and I'm stuck fighting for 3rd or 4th in FSP.

We've had that discussion before :) I feel like im repeating myself, don't you? Protege's FTW this year? I hope so.

[moxnix]

I feel you on the National level drivers being local. Two of the best national FSP cars are within an hour or so of my house. It's kind of frustrating when I'm at a divisional and some goofball driver with a half prepped car gets 1st place in a no talent class and I'm stuck fighting for 3rd or 4th in FSP.

goofball driver : Check
half prepped car : Check
1st place in a no talent class : Check

Congratulations you just described my STS2 win at the Devens tour last year.
At least Mazda paid me for it. :D

I wish I had some national level STS2 competition locally (I might this year when I might not be running it)

[khaosman]

No worries. I found them myself. I actually remember seeing them when they were first posted...just slipped my mind.

Linkage for the lazy? I'm getting new street wheels and tires this spring... something wide and tall will be in order for the terbs (yes, I am going to the dark side, I will miss the beloved throttle response but that is about it :D).

[xelderx]

Linkage for the lazy? I'm getting new street wheels and tires this spring... something wide and tall will be in order for the terbs (yes, I am going to the dark side, I will miss the beloved throttle response but that is about it :D).

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2464091&postcount=26

[xelderx]

At least Mazda paid me for it. :D



You're so lucky I can't come "help" with your engine swap. I feel a massive bolt losing session coming on. You'll need a metal detector and a backhoe when I get done.

[khaosman]

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2464091&postcount=26

Thanks. It looks good (2thumbs). His ride doesn't look that low though. Weird thing is I parked next to a P5 that I assume was stock ride height... mine looked the same O_o

[moxnix]

You're so lucky I can't come "help" with your engine swap. I feel a massive bolt losing session coming on. You'll need a metal detector and a backhoe when I get done.

LOL :D :D

Don't worry I am sure I will be missing a few bolts when I am done anyway.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/sweetness.jpg
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[xelderx]

no more rear brake lockup?

[xelderx]

How about some 245s?

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123662497

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

no more rear brake lockup?

Nope, I raised the rear of the car about 2 full rotations on my ground controls which might be 1/8 of an inch or so? The car rides better as well, so my assumption might be the car might have been bottomed out. We will look into it. But basically I'm maxed out on rebound on my rear shocks (700lbs of force @ 10"/sec.) and about 2 clicks from full soft on bump. The car is controlled very nicely in the back but it has a hard time turning in a steady radius sweeper. So I'm putting stiffer springs in the back and I might raise up the car a little bit in the back. We will see.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

How about some 245s?

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123662497

Wow, the clearance is nuts! Haha, What are you allowed in FSP? Are those just your street tires?

[xelderx]

These are just for street and goofing around in the mountains. Might have to use them for a rain race tire sometime this season. SP is unlimited on wheels/tires. My race setup will be the new 275/35-15 Hoosier on a 15X10" rim. I should have pictures of that in a few weeks.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

These are just for street and goofing around in the mountains. Might have to use them for a rain race tire sometime this season. SP is unlimited on wheels/tires. My race setup will be the new 275/35-15 Hoosier on a 15X10" rim. I should have pictures of that in a few weeks.

=( Z212's are my race tire and your using them for street, thanks for making me feel small.

[Gobbracing]

Have you ever tried a staggered tire set-up?

The Speed that trophied 2 years ago at Topeka in D-Stock and was running 245/40-17 in front and 225/45-17 Hoosiers in the back.
The owner and his co-driver (the guy who trophied) found that set-up allowed the car to rotate better then with same size all-around.
Their Speed had stock dampers.
Now I own it and I'm looking for adjustable dampers that would allow me to stay in D-Stock.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Have you ever tried a staggered tire set-up?

The Speed that trophied 2 years ago at Topeka in D-Stock and was running 245/40-17 in front and 225/45-17 Hoosiers in the back.
The owner and his co-driver (the guy who trophied) found that set-up allowed the car to rotate better then with same size all-around.
Their Speed had stock dampers.
Now I own it and I'm looking for adjustable dampers that would allow me to stay in D-Stock.

I don't plan on staggering my tires just yet, I have a lot of more things to do. HOpefully the change in spring rate in the rear will help me rotate the car a little better. We can build up a custom single or double adjustable setup out of hte stock strut housings if you would like. Singles run $450.00/strut and the doubles are $550.00/strut. Basically a wet Kit conversion.

[Gobbracing]

Thanks for the info Jeff.

Are you using Koni inserts?

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Thanks for the info Jeff.

Are you using Koni inserts?

Yes, they are Koni inserts.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://a356.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/51/l_2d1feede817ab7382a63f8e787d967a3.jpg

G/f Driving.

[low_psi]

Jeff, I'm gona call you tomorrow about tires. I was too busy at Sebring to talk to the Tripoint guys even though they were right next to us.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/nicole2.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/nicole3.jpg
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/nicole4.jpg
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Jeff@Tri-Point/nicole5.jpg


Nicole, driving again.

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

blast fromt he past!

[JRTritsch]

Not sure where to put this....but I figure anyonw watching this thread may know,

I picked up some used k-sports for hardware and I am wondering if I can wet-kit them or can you purchase 86-series koni with threaded bodies?
Anyone tried this?

They are 100% crap btw.

[MREDDLE]

Why is this still not a 'sticky'? there is some of the best information in here and its not like we have to many stickys?