FWD or AWD ? Does It Make A Diff [Archive]

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yousif

10-31-2006, 07:18 PM

Hi,

Im planning to buy the CX-7 real soon. I really wana know if there is a difference between the AWD and FWD? Is AWD worth the money? I also read that the AWD doesn't really work unless the car is slipping or something like that.

Need help quick I need to decide in a couple of days.

Kansei

10-31-2006, 07:39 PM

Why would you want the AWD to work unless it's slipping?

I'd definitely go for the AWD if you live somewhere where it snows.

yousif

10-31-2006, 07:41 PM

Why would you want the AWD to work unless it's slipping?

I'd definitely go for the AWD if you live somewhere where it snows.

I live in Los Angeles. Definately no snow there :P other comments on the AWD or FWD?

Thanks

Kansei

10-31-2006, 08:06 PM

Well then if you aren't going to be taking the car autocrossing (I don't know if they would let it, they'd probably consider it an SUV but boy does it handle well!) I wouldn't really worry about the AWD.

I'm sure someone else can chime in but my Protege5 is FWD and I still love it. Plus, I go to school in Rochester, NY so I'm quite familiar with snow.

I'd love to live in SoCal :( maybe when I'm done with school :P

yousif

10-31-2006, 09:19 PM

Kansei

10-31-2006, 09:28 PM

Unless it affects other options on the car.. like you know, if you can't get a moonroof because you didn't get AWD or something like that.

Brian MP5T

10-31-2006, 09:29 PM

Good call on the FWD..

Basically, it would add weight to the veh, It sounds like you would never need it..

Kansei

10-31-2006, 09:37 PM

Yeah like if we were talking a lambo gallardo.. hell yeah I'd get the AWD. But we're talking a fun, practical mini-suv thing :)

I'd get AWD because of where I live.. but hell my FWD protege is great in the snow with the right tires so AWD isn't really needed.

orlandomsp

10-31-2006, 09:40 PM

Doesn't the CX-7 come with a V6 in the FWD variant?

Brian MP5T

10-31-2006, 10:14 PM

Oh, That would SUCK!

wongster

10-31-2006, 10:40 PM

well i got the awd cause of where i live too.. the winter, and rain.. as well one good thing abt awd is if you take off it helps reduce of understeering as well if you do a fast take off.. but if none of those apply than you dont need it really...

spike blue

10-31-2006, 11:57 PM

i got min fwd and im pretty happy!!!

Rogue

11-01-2006, 12:31 PM

Doesn't the CX-7 come with a V6 in the FWD variant?no, all the CX-7s come with the 2.3L turbo engine. The new CX-9 will be offered with the new Ford 3.5L 255hp V6.

xavier

11-01-2006, 01:27 PM

FWD is fine in LA. The AWD in the CX7 is more like Real Time AWD. Its not constant like some AWD systems which means that Mazda really didnt need to make the components that strong. When your front wheels start to slip, the rear wheels start to grab. I havent read up on the CX7 's awd since I got a fwd but I know about Hondas RTAWD system and that appears to be rather frail. It uses hydraulic pumps to determine wheel slippage on the front end. Basically, if the front wheels begin to spin at different speeds, there becomes a difference of pressure in the hydraulic system which opens a valve and lets the hydraulic fluid to the rearend engaging the back wheels. Once the front wheels cease slipping, the valve is closed and the hydraulic fluid stays up front. Its pretty complex but fragile.

Kansei

11-01-2006, 01:34 PM

It's the same AWD system that the Mazdaspeed 6 has from what I can tell, and I'm sure they made the MS6 AWD pretty beefy.

G-Papi

11-01-2006, 01:44 PM

The AWD is an on-demand system. It will apply varying percentages to power to the rear wheels, dependant on the amount of traction lost in either front wheel. It's not just a snow and ice situation. It's particularly good in wet conditions as well.

There's a combination of part-time AWD which corrects for traction lost between front and rear - and TCS, which corrects traction differences between wheels on the same axle (i.e. fronts or rears).

All in all, it's an amazing (and complicated) system. There is the downside of more things to go wrong - but it's always that way; the more moving parts and the more electrical circuits, and computer lines and on, and on.

All that having been said; I believe that if you needed to ask - then FWD will do fine for you - or you need to do some serious research on the differences before you decide - including test driving.

btw - there's only one motor - the four cylinder, available in all models of the CX-7.

CX7_Scott

11-01-2006, 01:48 PM

To echo other replies - if you're not in an area that requires AWD traction, the FWD will save you money up-front and long-term.

I live in the New England area and will be frequenting the northern areas of Maine during the winter. Bumping to AWD was a no-brainer for me. :)

As others have said - the AWD acts as FWD until there is a loss of traction. I have no heavenly clue as to how it works. I am actually quite surprised at the feedback one of the owners from Canada gave regarding traction on packed-snow/ice... saying it was not that great... although it was more of a reflection of tire performance, not the AWD system.

I guess I'll find-out first-hand soon enough when winter hits.

xavier

11-01-2006, 01:51 PM

It's the same AWD system that the Mazdaspeed 6 has from what I can tell, and I'm sure they made the MS6 AWD pretty beefy.
Thats good to know. I wasnt sure how strong it was but if its the same awd from the speed6 then it should be able to take a fair amount of punishment

G-Papi

11-01-2006, 02:05 PM

. . . I am actually quite surprised at the feedback one of the owners from Canada gave regarding traction on packed-snow/ice... saying it was not that great... although it was more of a reflection of tire performance, not the AWD system.

I do believe the owner who expressed that concerd did have some tire issues.

Also, believe his biggest problem was cornering traction and stability.

While the CX-7 does handle like a sports car on a dry surface, much is due to the suspension setup that Mazda put together. It handles quickly and seemingly effortlessly.

On snow or ice, however, I would expect some basic laws of physics to begin to have a greater impact on cornering stability. The car has a high center of gravity which gives its two-ton weight a longer lever to force laterally against the tires' mission of providing lateral traction. (I hope I expressed that thought clearly(shocked).)

Incidentally, I'd expect similar diminishing of braking capability for the same reason.

I believe that snow or ice should cause any driver to learn the capabilities and limitations of the vehicle as equipped. In bad weather - I'd think snow tires would be a must!

CX7_Scott

11-01-2006, 02:50 PM

If I had the extra $1k+... I'd get the snow tires... but about to move and need to save my pennies. :)

Mazda3

11-01-2006, 03:27 PM

I have the AWD because of where I live, but if I lived in California I would definatlety go with the FWD. On top of everything thats already been said the FWD model is 200lbs lighter, which will make it a tad quicker and more nimble. Definate plus on any vehicle.

cruzdreamer

11-01-2006, 04:37 PM

FWD should be fine....no need in Cali.....more weight so worse gas mileage with AWD and more things to go wrong....how often does it come into play anyway!!

1Sleepy93

11-01-2006, 08:45 PM

I'm not all that worried about traction issues in snow with just FWD. The main thing against the CX will be the crap tires.

Rick's CX-7

11-09-2006, 04:05 PM

My biggest complaint on my CX-7 is that it is NOT a RWD car. With the amount of torque the engine makes, it is kinda hard to hang on to the steering wheel if you step on it hard. It would have been perfect if it was RWD.

G-Papi

11-09-2006, 04:08 PM

A Camero way of thinking:)

Too light in the butt for that. Like drifting a pickup truck.

raylau63

11-14-2006, 08:40 PM

Hi. I agree with the statement that AWD is applicable depending on the conditions where you live. In Malaysia where it rains a lot, AWD has some added safety benefits. I currently drive the Mitsu Airtrek (Outlander to US folks) and the AWD has saved my hide a few times while taking corners. AWD on corners is spectacular. Now that I hv experience with AWD I probably won't go back to FWD unless price is an issue.

jcr200

11-21-2006, 02:00 AM

1Sleepy93

11-21-2006, 02:24 AM

Hello all,
I'm a potential buyer for the CX-7 and I am also weighing the options for AWD and FWD. When the AWD kicks in, how long does it stay on? Does it only engage when slippage is detected? Has anyone driven their CX-7 in the snow with AWD or FWD yet? You guys do make a good point that a decent set of snow tires will help out no matter which drivetrain you have.

I've driven in snow with my FWD CX, stock tires, with and without chains and it wasn't bad. Tires are definately the limiting factor. They have no bite whatsoever. Only reason I put chains on was it was required to go over the Mt. pass. After that I took'em off and played on the much worse back roads. lol

CXRabbit

11-21-2006, 02:52 AM

I live in New York and I'm going with front wheel drive. All the cars I've owned in the last 10 years have been front wheel drive and I have never had a problem in snow. Don't expect to be speeding, learn to downshift, and watch for all the other jerks who think their huge SUV is going to protect them going 80 mph in a blizzard.

:)

Byrnie

11-21-2006, 10:16 AM

I live in Los Angeles. Definately no snow there :P other comments on the AWD or FWD?

Thanks
I live in the D.C. area and there's no snow here the dealer told me not to bother with awd since it really doesn't snow much here and that fwd would get me through it easily.

FWD is faster than AWD if you care about that kind of thing :)

Kansei

11-21-2006, 01:42 PM

I live in the D.C. area and there's no snow here the dealer told me not to bother with awd since it really doesn't snow much here and that fwd would get me through it easily.

FWD is faster than AWD if you care about that kind of thing :)

No snow in DC? :bs:

G-Papi

11-21-2006, 02:44 PM

Two or three in most years, with one being 'significant'. That's for the average year.

Hasplode

12-04-2006, 04:20 PM

I live near Boston and I decided to go with FWD. Why? It's cheaper, and the added weight of the AWD equipment would take a bite (however small) out of gas mileage and acceleration.

And, for those few times a year when the AWD would actually make a difference? I've been driving FWD vehicles all my life and I've never managed to get stuck or spin out before. I'm quite familiar with driving in snow, and AWD just wasn't worth the money (upfront and in the long run) to me.

njcx7

12-04-2006, 04:23 PM

if u want to a CX which handles like a sports car, AWD is only way to go. i had a talon tsi FWD, then drove an AWD, there was no comparison. i guess the same is w/ the CX. FWD is fine though if u just drive totally normal from point A to B. i like to get alittle silly at times. also if we get snow i have nothing to worry about, even though FWD is not bad in snow either...

CXRabbit

12-04-2006, 05:07 PM

Handle like a sports car with AWD? You do realize that the CX-7 is not FULL TIME all-wheel drive. AWD only kicks in when the system detects a traction different between the front and rear tires, due to the front wheels slightly slipping.

Also, you could make the argument that because AWD is heavier it's not quite as fast ;)

I don't think the goal of AWD is to get a sportier experience. Not in a 2 ton CUV :P

njcx7

12-04-2006, 07:59 PM

ok...

singlemalt_18

12-04-2006, 10:15 PM

You do realize that the CX-7 is not FULL TIME all-wheel drive. AWD only kicks in when the system detects a traction different between the front and rear tires, due to the front wheels slightly slipping.

I think there is some confusion with regard to the AWD system not being full time... the TCS (traction control system) is the part that only engages when a loss of traction is detected, and TCS is a braking process that operates within the anti-lock system. TCS prevents a drive wheel from endlessly slipping and spinning free from a loss of "grip", such as a wheel that begins slipping on ice, because THAT is what you NEED to regain traction.

AWD is just what is says it is - all wheel drive, and AWD all by itself, does not have a meaningful advantage on ice because these systems need to detect resistance to work optimally. The old 4x4's were basically dual posi-traction, meaning that only ONE front and ONE rear were turning at any given time, and it would be the one with the MOST resistance.

Modern AWD systems are "dynamic", and CONSTANTLY distributing and redistributing some of the drive power to all four wheels according to the system's logic. These systems can sense the relative resistance or "grip" of each wheel, and direct either more or less of the torque based on that. You may not have all 4 wheels driving at the same time, but they all get equal time, with most often, a bias to favor the front wheels. Once lifted off the ground, AWD ceases to properly function because it can not detect any resistance.

It seems to me that the CX-7 can allocate up to 50% of available drive power to the rear wheels. Any one with an AWD model does indeed have all for wheels pulling rubber over the road. One of the big selling points on the RDX is that it has a system that can direct up to 100% to one side for optimal handling & traction while cornering. Some may argue the practical benefit or need for such a dramatic power allocation, and I would be one of them.

The best way to think of these systems may be to understand that ABS and TCS work through the braking system by monitoring & comparing relative wheel ROTATION. AWD delivers torque through the drive-train by monitoring & comparing relative wheel RESISTANCE. And that my friends is what make a vehicle sure-footed!

Over the past 30+ years, I have driven NOTHING but 4x4 and AWD - 1985 Dodge Ramcharger, 1992 Eagle Talon Turbo AWD, 1993 Ford Bronco, and 4 different Subaru Legacy GTs, and now a CX-7. If someone knows that I'm out-to-lunch on this, please make your case, but I think some are confusing the AWD for the TCS.

Does AWD make a difference over FWD? I wouldn't drive anything without AWD, and I haven't.

njcx7

12-04-2006, 10:51 PM

well said...

MITZA

12-04-2006, 10:57 PM

12" of snow here in N.Illinois last Friday Glad I bought a AWD CX-7

mikey1981

12-05-2006, 12:59 AM

Its not like the 7 has any different gas mileage with or without AWD. On top of that, you will take a hit on resale value of FWD.

CXRabbit

12-05-2006, 01:05 AM

Maybe I understand this differently than you...

"Drive is through Mazda’s advanced Active Torque-Split All-Wheel Drive system, which uses various sensors to signal control modules that automatically apportion torque to those wheels most able to provide solid traction. A computer-controlled coupling, connected with the rear differential, automatically adjusts the torque distribution, allowing up to 50-percent of the drive power to be sent to the rear wheels, depending on traction conditions. This all-wheel drive system is also used in the Mazda6 MPS and CX-7." (source (http://www.mazda.com.au/currentNews.asp))

and

"Vehicle safety starts with those four crucial 'contact patches' where your tires touch the ground. So to help provide optimum traction, regardless of weather or road surface, every Mazda CX-7 is available with Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive. This advanced, computer-controlled, all-wheel-drive (AWD) system continuously monitors wheel speed, Anti-lock Braking System and Dynamic Stability Control operations as well as engine data, to distribute the optimal amount of torque between the front and rear wheels from 100:0 to 50:50." (source (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/brochures/2006_cx7_brochure.pdf))

Also, TCS controls engine torque by lowering it when the system detects wheel slippage, helping them not to spin. It's very simply explained in the manual on page 5-22. I have no confusion over the difference between TCS and an AWD systems that isn't providing 50:50 torque full-time. 100:0 to me mean front wheel drive until conditions call for a different ratio of front-wheel to rear-wheel torque.

singlemalt_18

12-05-2006, 09:00 AM

Maybe I understand this differently than you...

I have no confusion over the difference between TCS and an AWD systems that isn't providing 50:50 torque full-time. 100:0 to me mean front wheel drive until conditions call for a different ratio of front-wheel to rear-wheel torque.

Actually, I think you are mis-interpreting the "sales" literature.

The AWD is not a FWD that "kicks in" drive to the rear when needed. It is continuous and fluid. I would suggest to you that the 50:50 split, and the 100:0 to the front condition is "the range" of what the AWD delivers; Its no different than MANY other AWD systems in this regard. The 100:0 is not the "default". The AWD does control torque, but it does so thru "resistance". If it is reducing torque to a wheel, it is because it is applying the torque elsewhere.

When the TCS "controls" torque, it does so by applying brake pressure to a wheel when it detects it "spinning" faster than other wheels. Its the opposite of ABS that releases brake pressure to a wheel it detects that is not spinning or "locking up".

I think everyone is making too much out of these things... FWD or AWD, CX-7 owners have the choice -that's great! Drive them, and have fun... and feel safe, secure, and in control. Those that choose AWD are getting much more than just occasional assistance from the rear wheels. Its really that simple.

njcx7

12-05-2006, 11:22 AM

also well said... AWD CX is just that. FWD is just that...

Byrnie

12-05-2006, 11:56 AM

No snow in DC? :bs:

whoops I meant there's not enough snow here to warrant AWD

Byrnie

12-05-2006, 11:57 AM

CX7_Scott

12-05-2006, 12:18 PM

Wait - so I need to realign my universe...?

I was under the (false?) impression that the AWD CX-7 acted as a Front-wheel drive vehicle until rear traction was necessary.

Now I'm reading here that it is 'NOT' that way, but it is full-time AWD with the ability to distribute power to the real up-to 50%...?

Now I'm really baffled. I don't know who to believe. My salesman told me it was front-wheel drive until the rear wheels were necessary, then the traction control would send power to them.

Not only that, I was told the it is safe to tow the car (in neutral, of course) rear-wheels down, but not to tow it front-wheels down (backwards) because of the damage that could occur.

I wish we had a Mazda GURU to shed accurate and definitive light on this subject.

CXRabbit

12-05-2006, 12:23 PM

Don't think I'm misinterpretting anything.

"system continuously monitors wheel speed, Anti-lock Braking System and Dynamic Stability Control operations as well as engine data, to distribute the optimal amount of torque between the front and rear wheels from 100:0 to 50:50."

100:0 means just that... 100% front wheel drive, 0 rear.

What I do think remains unanswered is under just what conditions it's at 100:0, 50:50 and anywhere in between. But it is absolutely possible, as indicated, that the car at least sometimes is purely 100:0.

singlemalt_18

12-05-2006, 01:27 PM

Item #1 - My salesman told me it was front-wheel drive until the rear wheels were necessary, then the traction control would send power to them.

Item #2 - Not only that, I was told the it is safe to tow the car (in neutral, of course) rear-wheels down, but not to tow it front-wheels down (backwards) because of the damage that could occur.

Scott,

1. Don't worry, he was just a salesman.

2. Always flatbed a CX-7 AWD! For that matter, flatbed all new vehicles.

CXRabbit

12-05-2006, 01:34 PM

Right from the Owner's Manual, page 7-19:

A towed 2WD vehicle should have its front wheels off the ground.

A towed AWD vehicle must have all its wheels off the ground.

Educate your salesman ;)

njcx7

12-05-2006, 02:07 PM

Actually, I think you are mis-interpreting the "sales" literature.

The AWD is not a FWD that "kicks in" drive to the rear when needed. It is continuous and fluid. I would suggest to you that the 50:50 split, and the 100:0 to the front condition is "the range" of what the AWD delivers; Its no different than MANY other AWD systems in this regard. The 100:0 is not the "default". The AWD does control torque, but it does so thru "resistance". If it is reducing torque to a wheel, it is because it is applying the torque elsewhere.

When the TCS "controls" torque, it does so by applying brake pressure to a wheel when it detects it "spinning" faster than other wheels. Its the opposite of ABS that releases brake pressure to a wheel it detects that is not spinning or "locking up".

I think everyone is making too much out of these things... FWD or AWD, CX-7 owners have the choice -that's great! Drive them, and have fun... and feel safe, secure, and in control. Those that choose AWD are getting much more than just occasional assistance from the rear wheels. Its really that simple.
EXACTLY, AWD is just that......
FWD (bj)

singlemalt_18

12-05-2006, 03:08 PM

To clear up some of the confusion, here is a link that can begin to put some of this urban legend to an end:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/four-wheel-drive.htm

From this link you can even use the drop-down box to get deeper into "A Basic System & Lots More Information"... the animations in "Basic System" are good.

Happy driving...