Why is my ES so...SLOW?

[drivethruecp]

I honestly love my Protege! And am not knockin it whatsoever but its has such horrible acceleration. I know its a blunt comment but idk what else to say. First gear and then shifting to second is where its slow. Off the line it just has horrible pickup, then the lag from 1st to 2nd is ridiculous. The only mods I have are: B&M SS, Kartboy Bushings, AEM CAI (short ram air soon), and the rest is subtle visual things that have nothing to do with performance unless you consider the Gemini R/C hood performance. I have my tires at 48PSI.... I have tried to try different ways of shifting and all which help.... idk, maybe I am not shifting efficiently enough with my car. Or our 2.0's are slow...idk, I'm in denial so. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. Oh and the only other complaint I have is my engine is noisy as hell! Especially noticeable at idle.

[Blake]

get a turbo

[Rio Racer]

you have a N/A 2.0 protege... of course it's slow, just turbo it or buy an MSP.

[drivethruecp]

It seems like any 6 cylinder, whether it be a van, car, truck can beat out my slow ass car

[Captain KRM P5]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazda-Protege-Partial-Turbo-Kit-Mazdaspeed_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ00 2QQitemZ120046889098QQtcZphoto

[Blake]

u drive a inline 2 liter....its not a damn ls1 put a turbo on it.

[drivethruecp]

I don't at all expect it to have crazy pickup or anything, if thats what your all thinking I'm saying...just not as horrible either. Its just acceleration from leaving a stop light or sign etc. I don't race or any of that.

[Blake]

then get some nawzzzzz

[B1GHAM]

I don't at all expect it to have crazy pickup or anything, if thats what your all thinking I'm saying...just not as horrible either. Its just acceleration from leaving a stop light or sign etc. I don't race or any of that.

If you have the 2.0, have you looked into upgrading to the MP3 ECU? I know there are a few people on here that have done so, but Im not sure if it just involves the ECU or if theres anything else you need to do.

[jersey_emt]

If you have the 2.0, have you looked into upgrading to the MP3 ECU? I know there are a few people on here that have done so, but Im not sure if it just involves the ECU or if theres anything else you need to do.

It's just the ECU.

However, in order to get the extra 10HP you need to use premium gas.

[Gaboost]

It's an economy car, it's not made for acceleration. A turbo can change that, however. A 75 shot of nitrous works, too.

[Kansei]

It's just the ECU.

However, in order to get the extra 10HP you need to use premium gas.

very much worth it in my opinion. If you drove my Protege5 with the MP3 ECU and then right after I switched back to my Protege5 ECU ... WOW it was such a huge difference. I really, really miss the MP3 ECU. The single best N/A mod on my car, and they go for like ~225 which isn't too bad.

But if you're looking to make good power (anything over 120whp really) go for the turbo. It's cheaper than the N/A route, seriously.

[Jas00x]

How about a light weight flywheel? Lighter wheels, smaller diameter wheels and tires will help gearing. Also, with the proteges that are a couple years old, you have to maintain them alot to keep performance up - clean the EGR/Throttle body, replace plugs regularly.
Higher PSI in your tires won't help accelleration- that makes less contact patch. Lower psi will get you better grip. With street tires (as opposed to R-compound tires or drag slicks), usually the dealer recommended pressures work just fine.
BTW, my Acura RSX-S is *just* a 2L- but its plenty fast!;)

[djarkitek]

ok wait wait.
i have an n/a protege too and i can assure you we have a insanely slow 2,3,and 4, but not first.

Trusstt me. For fun i go aout against my friends with 350zs, and turboed 240sx, and civics. My car had a lot of torque in first and 2nd. it's form the middle of second , then all of 3rd, and 4th, that our n/a engines really show they have nothing. so I would say, u less you are driving an automatic, you should be lifting perfectly well in first and second unless there is something wrong wiht your or you suck at take-offs.

i am 110% sure about this too, becuase i've heard some a lot of people and been in other N/A proteges, that have the same problem. it's in no way 1st and 2nd, it's eveyr other gear that is sad. and oh yea, i'm going turbo to solve that problem. but really i don't know how you have bad 1st and 2nd gears at all?.....what the hell are you racng, corvettes? lol

[djarkitek]

another way i know also is the street i do against n/a cars. try it yourself.

if you race a cavalier or or civic on like the highway..they will not only keep up with you, but prob. pass you unless you drop all the way to like 2rd gear doing 60. But if try to race them from a dead start at a stop light; as i have done also, you will have about 2 car lengths lead by 3rd gear everytime and they will catch up slowly. incase you did'nt notice also, our cars have more torque generally than horsepower, so we def. have the get up and go.

[Captain KRM P5]

stock or near stock proteges take about 9 seconds to reach 60mph folks, remember this

[Kansei]

:'( 8.6 seconds I think.. makes me feel much better haha.

[clicknext]

To the OP: Maybe it seems slow because of the short gearing in 1st/2nd? If you just granny it in those gears like I do, it'll take forever. But if you really stomp on it and get through the gears quickly, it doesn't seem that bad to me. 4th, however...

=/

In my opinion, the car's gearing isn't the best. I'd like to have seen slightly taller 1st and 2nd, maybe shorter 3rd/4th, and a taller 5th to get the engine rev down on the freeway.

[MaDz]

i agree with you there.. I think i'm already @ like 3200-3500 rpm when im hitting 100km/h on 5th gear... i don't see any problem there but it might be hard on gas if you go on the highway @ 130km/h for a couple hours and the engine working @ 4000 rpm ;P


To the OP: Maybe it seems slow because of the short gearing in 1st/2nd? If you just granny it in those gears like I do, it'll take forever. But if you really stomp on it and get through the gears quickly, it doesn't seem that bad to me. 4th, however...

=/

In my opinion, the car's gearing isn't the best. I'd like to have seen slightly taller 1st and 2nd, maybe shorter 3rd/4th, and a taller 5th to get the engine rev down on the freeway.

[djarkitek]

Mine is down to about 7.5 seconds as an n/a

[D-rock240]

very much worth it in my opinion. If you drove my Protege5 with the MP3 ECU and then right after I switched back to my Protege5 ECU ... WOW it was such a huge difference. I really, really miss the MP3 ECU. The single best N/A mod on my car, and they go for like ~225 which isn't too bad.

But if you're looking to make good power (anything over 120whp really) go for the turbo. It's cheaper than the N/A route, seriously.

So just running the MP3 ECU and premium gas on a P5 will get you 10 hp? My friend wants something extra and somebody told him to get a chip or flash the ECU. I said something about the MP3 ECU and they said, "that won't do anything".

[GoProtege]

So just running the MP3 ECU and premium gas on a P5 will get you 10 hp? My friend wants something extra and somebody told him to get a chip or flash the ECU. I said something about the MP3 ECU and they said, "that won't do anything".

From what I understand, this will give you about 10hp, but I agree with everyone else, go turbo. It's alot cheaper then N/A and alot of fun :)
If you do want to go turbo, hold off on the mp3 ecu, because you don't want to use that with the turbo, you'd be better off finding an msp ecu

But if you really stomp on it and get through the gears quickly, it doesn't seem that bad to me. 4th, however...

agreed (4th is really bad, I pull harder in 5th)

if you race a cavalier or or civic on like the highway..they will not only keep up with you, but prob. pass you unless you drop all the way to like 2rd gear doing 60. But if try to race them from a dead start at a stop light; as i have done also, you will have about 2 car lengths lead by 3rd gear everytime and they will catch up slowly.

Also agree
Before my turbo days, I knew people with stock civics and cavaliers and I would beat them off the line easily, but b/c of crappy gearing, would have to drop to second, but I would eventually pull with them.

~Jeff

[Kansei]

^^ I say buy the MP3 ECU and use it until you go turbo like I did :) I bought it for 225 shipped and sold it for the same 9 months later :D

It's definitely a nice ECU for our cars. When you initially install it, you'll just notice that it smooths things out a bit all across the powerband, none of that weird peaks and valleys feeling. Then as the ECU goes through it's first few drive cycles, take the RPMs up high and you'll notice the magic that I did.. it pulls nice right up to redline.... if you don't believe the gains, swap back to your ES/P5 ECU.. you'll notice right away that the power just dies up high, it really makes me sad now that I've let the MP3 ECU go. All will be well though when the T25 is bolted up and ready to go :D

[GoProtege]

^^ I say buy the MP3 ECU and use it until you go turbo like I did :) I bought it for 225 shipped and sold it for the same 9 months later :D

In that case go for it!
I would also recommend getting a good cat-back exhaust. That combined with the intake definatly made a difference.

[Lani]

I suggest getting the MP3 ECU-- it makes a world of difference. Luckily, my car came with one when I bought it used...:)

[prulew]

I don't at all expect it to have crazy pickup or anything, if thats what your all thinking I'm saying...just not as horrible either. Its just acceleration from leaving a stop light or sign etc. I don't race or any of that.
any mods at all?? I have made a few mods to my 2.0 and it has added a minimal amount of boost. Otherwise, like the others are saying get a turbo.

[drivethruecp]

Stupid question... whats "N/A?"
And I looked into Unichip ECU's a while back but thought they were like $600 or more from what I remember..so I kind of forgot about it. Better gas milage would be something id look to improve also. Will the MSP chips really make that much of a difference with a stock, other then what I said, ES? And you have to run premium...that sucks dix! But 225 is not bad at all.
I'm not really into a turbo because I REALLY am not down wit decreasing the life of my engine with mods such as that.
And recommendations on spark plugs? They haven't been changed since new as far as I know...
I have Kumho Ecsta ASX's on stock wheels, And yeh...I should prolly def lower my pressure. But how much, without having them too low so they'll wear out faster.

djarkitek, if you wouldn't mind, go through a step-by-step of exactly how you shift...because I really think that might be part of the problem...well at least I hope. Just take note of what you do next time your accelerating from stop.

[sephiroth]

any mods at all?? I have made a few mods to my 2.0 and it has added a minimal amount of boost. Otherwise, like the others are saying get a turbo.
lol
Stupid question... whats "N/A?"

naturally aspirated, ie, non-forced induction, non-supercharged/turbochared.

[jersey_emt]

Stupid question... whats "N/A?"

Naturally Aspirated. Non-FI (forced induction -- supercharged or turbocharged)

And I looked into Unichip ECU's a while back but thought they were like $600 or more from what I remember..so I kind of forgot about it. Better gas milage would be something id look to improve also. Will the MSP chips really make that much of a difference with a stock, other then what I said, ES? And you have to run premium...that sucks dix! But 225 is not bad at all.
I'm not really into a turbo because I REALLY am not down wit decreasing the life of my engine with mods such as that.
And recommendations on spark plugs? They haven't been changed since new as far as I know...
I have Kumho Ecsta ASX's on stock wheels, And yeh...I should prolly def lower my pressure. But how much, without having them too low so they'll wear out faster.

djarkitek, if you wouldn't mind, go through a step-by-step of exactly how you shift...because I really think that might be part of the problem...well at least I hope. Just take note of what you do next time your accelerating from stop.

MSP chip will not do anything for you, as it is for the turbocharged MSP, not an N/A Protege.

[Blake]

...omg

[ChopstickHero]

I have my tires at 48PSI....

why???

[D-rock240]

Yeah that's pretty high. My Nittos are 40 psi max, and I don't fill them to that.

[Blake]

lol 48 psi, it must be this boost they speak of.

"any mods at all?? I have made a few mods to my 2.0 and it has added a minimal amount of boost."


Im hopeing he is talking about a minimal amount of boost in performance....otherwise im giving up on humanity.

[PlatinumMSP]

buy a fucking turbo kit and stop bitching! Yes your car is slow, and it will be forever until you go turbo. End of story.

[drivethruecp]

...omg

? ...We all gotta learn sometime... You all did at one time also

[drivethruecp]

buy a fucking turbo kit and stop bitching! Yes your car is slow, and it will be forever until you go turbo. End of story.

I'm not bitching, I'm asking for fuking suggestions. If you don't have a legitimate comment to make, don't bother posting. End of story. (braindead)

[PlatinumMSP]

I'm not bitching, I'm asking for fuking suggestions. If you don't have a legitimate comment to make, don't bother posting. End of story. (braindead)

bro, i'm just letting you know the facts man, honestly turboing your protege is the only way to really make the thing move, from what i've read so far, you dont really know much about your car just yet and you've got a lot of research to do. We've all been there, theres a TON of info on this forum for you to read. My advise is to come up with a certain goal for your car and stick to it. 150 whp? 200 whp? 400whp? it can be done, but you need to establish what your goal is, and then you can choose the right path to obtaining it. Thats my two cents, and my legitimate comment.

[TXMazdaSpeeder]

Heres an example man. I had a 2001 Mazda MP3 which has the better ecu and think 15hp stock over a ES.

My mods were: TWM Short SHifter, Kartboy Shifter Bushings, AWR Polyurethane Motor Mounts, Lightweigh 18's (17.2 lbs) and kumho ecsta mx's, AEM short ram intake, race muffler, denso iridium spark plugs, sparkco plug wires.....

I made 117.8whp and 121.4 lbs of torque at the wheels. The best time i ever pulled out of the car was a 16.0 @ 86mph with a 2.0 60 foot. There is NO hope for an N/A protege of being fast without entirely going through the motor.



BTW: my totally stock mazdaspeed with shitty all season tires and a 2.3 60 foot went 15.1 @ 90 mph with just 6 psi worth of boost on a small turbo with a crappy intercooler setup.

just to show you the difference boost makes.

[Kansei]

Heres an example man. I had a 2001 Mazda MP3 which has the better ecu and think 15hp stock over a ES.

My mods were: TWM Short SHifter, Kartboy Shifter Bushings, AWR Polyurethane Motor Mounts, Lightweigh 18's (17.2 lbs) and kumho ecsta mx's, AEM short ram intake, race muffler, denso iridium spark plugs, sparkco plug wires.....

I made 117.8whp and 121.4 lbs of torque at the wheels. The best time i ever pulled out of the car was a 16.0 @ 86mph with a 2.0 60 foot. There is NO hope for an N/A protege of being fast without entirely going through the motor.



BTW: my totally stock mazdaspeed with shitty all season tires and a 2.3 60 foot went 15.1 @ 90 mph with just 6 psi worth of boost on a small turbo with a crappy intercooler setup.

just to show you the difference boost makes.

... well considering you just had:
MP3 ECU
intake
muffler

those are damn good numbers. That's so few power mods for an N/A. Cams, underdrive pulley, header, midpipe, a real catback.. with all of that it really does feel pretty fast. Case in point: twilightprotege in australia pulled a better time than your stock mazdaspeed in a n/a Protege5.

[PlatinumMSP]

lol dude he could put a 5 dollar spring in his wastegate and unbolt his midpipe be in the 14's not a problem, it takes a lot of work and money to have a semi-fast na protege, its not worth it, you'll get there faster with a turbo and with more potential

[niky]

117.8 whp with just an intake and a muffler?

AFAIK, 118-120 whp is intake+headers+midpipe+muffler, with the cat-delete.

[Kansei]

I saw (in person) someone dyno 116 with intake, header, axleback, flywheel.. and I think that's it.

117.8 though.. He had the MP3 ECU at the time too remember, and that does give a really nice "boost" of performance :D

[wannabe]

this thread has a lot of good information in it, but please do not turn it into a pissing match....(not directed at anyone in particular)


now. if you are just looking for it to be a little quicker, and are on a tight budget, intake, header, exhaust will help you out. less than a grand and you'll be feeling it better. its still not gonna be fast, but it may make you happier.

if your looking for balls to the wall performance, then turbo is truely the only way to go. i'm not saying it can't be done with N/A but there is far more work to be done.
however, if you want more power than the stock MSP, then you may want to look at a full built block, which once again will run the numbers back up.

what range are you looking for?

[Kansei]

And even if you may turbo down the road, a lot of the mods you'll do can transition over well or would be needed when you turbo anyway. header-back exhaust, for instance. I wouldn't run a turbo on the stock ES exhaust.

[PlatinumMSP]

And even if you may turbo down the road, a lot of the mods you'll do can transition over well or would be needed when you turbo anyway. header-back exhaust, for instance. I wouldn't run a turbo on the stock ES exhaust.

thats not so true man, most of those NA upgrades will be useless once he goes turbo, header, exhaust, intake, all need to be changed

[drivethruecp]

this thread has a lot of good information in it, but please do not turn it into a pissing match....(not directed at anyone in particular)


now. if you are just looking for it to be a little quicker, and are on a tight budget, intake, header, exhaust will help you out. less than a grand and you'll be feeling it better. its still not gonna be fast, but it may make you happier.

if your looking for balls to the wall performance, then turbo is truely the only way to go. i'm not saying it can't be done with N/A but there is far more work to be done.
however, if you want more power than the stock MSP, then you may want to look at a full built block, which once again will run the numbers back up.

what range are you looking for?

Thank you for that!!

I am bout to replace my AEM CAI since the filter is shot and want a short ram, whats your suggestion? I was going with this one http://mazda3online.web.aplus.net/product_info.php?cPath=21_31_45&products_id=81 but from the picture the bend looks like its a CAI?... I really don't want the "buzz' sound you get from an exhaust AT ALL, and was looking into an OBX header a while ago..(w/ spark plug anit-foulers & MAM midpipe??) But is pretty useless with a stock exhaust, no? Since its restricting the flow... (you can't take the cc off, can you..hah?) So I did do quite a bit of research then put it off for a while do to the lack of funds spent elsewhere. And yes, for now I am on a tight budget and just want it to be a little quicker without sacrificing the reliability and life of my engine...I don't mean to sound like a bitch...but thats my mentality at this point; I'm still paying the fucking car off

[Kansei]

exhaust doesn't need to be changed.. hell the MSP stock comes with the same exhaust stuff as all the other proteges, just with a shinier muffler. Yeah, header will need to get changed, as will intake but you can keep the filter, etc. It's not a total loss.

[PlatinumMSP]

dude you'll need a new downpipe for the turbo, not to mention you'll probably want a 3" exhaust for max power... bigger than 2.5" on an NA car usually loses power, an air filter is 30 dollars as opposed to the 200 dollars for the entire intake system, an no the exhaust isnt the same, it has the s and j pipes, the catback section is completely different too, not sure about the midpipe though

[Rac3rX]

Yeah the ECU with a few other mods and you should feel alright, (If your not looking for POWER) If its POWER you want go Turbo. Im going as far as I can N/A then turboing this bitch.

Ive beaten out a bunch of MP3's and Stock Vs Stock they arnt that much quicker, BUT when modded the gains should be better when coupled with the MP3 ecu as aposed to the Non MP3 ECU (With premium gas of course) Sooo with it, I should be faster simple as that, thats why shes been in my plans for quite a bit, But Im having trouble finding one (and matching it with a time my budget allows it)

Sugested mods to make your ES alright

MOTOR MOUNTS (Or Incerts) This is a MUST!!!!
J-Spec Cams
(H9 intake, + H9 re-pinned as an exhaust cam)
Intake + Exhaust line
Headers
UDP
MP3 ECU

You could get more but with that you should be feeling nice.

Ohh and lets keep in mind that STOCK, the MP3 will give about 10hp, but not 10whp ;) Maybe 5 of that makes it to the wheels, the benifits are more the the power band as a whole as aposed to peek.

[yashart_mp3]

"Gramma shifting, not double clutching like your spose' to"

^^ After you master those things, then go for a 100 shot of NOS. Just be careful not to blow the welds on the intake mani!

[Rac3rX]

"Gramma shifting, not double clutching like your spose' to"

^^ After you master those things, then go for a 100 shot of NOS. Just be careful not to blow the welds on the intake mani!

C'mon, you know our block Stock wont handle a 100 shot

hell 40 to 60 and even that will f the shit up eventually

[yashart_mp3]

C'mon, you know our block Stock wont handle a 100 shot

hell 40 to 60 and even that will f the shit up eventually

Your right, what he needs is the works

"Cool Air intake,
NOS fogger system
T4 Turbo
AIC Controller
Direct Port Nitrous Injection
And a stand alone fuel management system

Not a bad way to spend $10,000"

[drivethruecp]

dude you'll need a new downpipe for the turbo, not to mention you'll probably want a 3" exhaust for max power... bigger than 2.5" on an NA car usually loses power, an air filter is 30 dollars as opposed to the 200 dollars for the entire intake system, an no the exhaust isnt the same, it has the s and j pipes, the catback section is completely different too, not sure about the midpipe though

dude, I'm not getting a turbo, and don't plan on it. Thanks for all of the suggestions...but they can be biased if you think I intend on getting a turbo when I AM NOT. I don't want the CAI anymore, I had a scare one time when I hit a "black puddle" and almost sucked up a fucking stream durring a down pour. Is that AEM short ram air the real "short" one? Cuz like I said it looks like it is a CAI. Can someone post the link of a SRI

Yeah the ECU with a few other mods and you should feel alright, (If your not looking for POWER)

MOTOR MOUNTS (Or Incerts) This is a MUST!!!! - (why? what does it improve?)
J-Spec Cams - (I've had these on my list in the past but aren't sure what they're for, lol)
(H9 intake, + H9 re-pinned as an exhaust cam) (huh?)
Intake + Exhaust line (short ram air? brand?)
Headers (OBX, even though I have a stock exhaust?)
UDP (Whats this?)
MP3 ECU

some questions on each above in "( )"

Whats the list of mods in order of importance and cost (NOT A TURBO or biased that I would one day get a turbo or NOS)? Thanks for all of the feedback and info!!! SERIOUSLY! (drinks)

exhaust doesn't need to be changed.. hell the MSP stock comes with the same exhaust stuff as all the other proteges, just with a shinier muffler. Yeah, header will need to get changed, as will intake but you can keep the filter, etc. It's not a total loss.

Thank god! I would be down for changing the headers but not really the exhaust.. I don't want to keep the intake, I really want to get a SRI. Or is there any reason I would want to def stick with the CAI?...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e152/drivethruecp/IMGP2390_2.jpg

[wannabe]

Thank you for that!!

I am bout to replace my AEM CAI since the filter is shot and want a short ram, whats your suggestion? I was going with this one http://mazda3online.web.aplus.net/product_info.php?cPath=21_31_45&products_id=81 but from the picture the bend looks like its a CAI?... I really don't want the "buzz' sound you get from an exhaust AT ALL, and was looking into an OBX header a while ago..(w/ spark plug anit-foulers & MAM midpipe??) But is pretty useless with a stock exhaust, no? Since its restricting the flow... (you can't take the cc off, can you..hah?) So I did do quite a bit of research then put it off for a while do to the lack of funds spent elsewhere. And yes, for now I am on a tight budget and just want it to be a little quicker without sacrificing the reliability and life of my engine...I don't mean to sound like a bitch...but thats my mentality at this point; I'm still paying the fucking car off
the AEM is a true short ram. Ken at mazda3online wont steer you wrong. OBX header is basically the only way to go with the header. just as an FYI you may see it badged as "Forza" its identical, just has a vanity plate on it.

as far as exhaust goes, i have the Racing Beat cat-back. i personally love the sound. its deeper and louder than stock, but its not noisy. basically no freeway drone (unless your like me and drive 80+ on the freeway).

if you can find an mp3 ecu, its probably worth it. but remember the 10 hp it promises is CRANK horsepower. which equals out to like 5-7 whp. about the same as the header. (edit: just noticed this last little bit was posted above..)

[PlatinumMSP]

dude, I'm not getting a turbo, and don't plan on it. Thanks for all of the suggestions...but they can be biased if you think I intend on getting a turbo when I AM NOT. I don't want the CAI anymore, I had a scare one time when I hit a "black puddle" and almost sucked up a fucking stream durring a down pour. Is that AEM short ram air the real "short" one? Cuz like I said it looks like it is a CAI. Can someone post the link of a SRI


some questions on each above in "( )"

Whats the list of mods in order of importance and cost (NOT A TURBO or biased that I would one day get a turbo or NOS)? Thanks for all of the feedback and info!!! SERIOUSLY! (drinks)



Thank god! I would be down for changing the headers but not really the exhaust.. I don't want to keep the intake, I really want to get a SRI. Or is there any reason I would want to def stick with the CAI?...

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e152/drivethruecp/IMGP2390_2.jpg


you can always convert a cai to an sri, if you want to stay na.... get a full 2.5" exhaust, obx header, injen cai, unorthodox underdrive pulley, motormounts, and yeah you'll feel the difference for sure

[PlatinumMSP]

wait my bad, no exhaust and sri instead of cai? Dude your not going to make much power that way, your going to have to uncork your entire car to get the best gains... whats the point of a header if flow is going to limited by a restrictive exhaust. You still need to decide what your whp and wtq goals are for us to really help you out...

[wannabe]

wait my bad, no exhaust and sri instead of cai? Dude your not going to make much power that way, your going to have to uncork your entire car to get the best gains... whats the point of a header if flow is going to limited by a restrictive exhaust. You still need to decide what your whp and wtq goals are for us to really help you out...

sri vs cai has proven to be a futile debate in n/a proteges...

header will still help even without the full exhaust. however, when they are all put together, they work the way they are designed to.

[PlatinumMSP]

sri vs cai has proven to be a futile debate in n/a proteges...

header will still help even without the full exhaust. however, when they are all put together, they work the way they are designed to.

agreed

[Rac3rX]

I think hes looking for a little direction,and not a FULL planned out build.

To answer your question

First off I will have to agree, that mods on a N/A engine bassically work arround freeing up the breathing of the engine & they will all work best together. However like myself I would assume your working with a budget and plan to get parts as you can afford them.

Ill give my opinion and sugestions, I would have a goal of arround 130 to 135 whp (based on what youve been explaining you wanta)

Motor mounts.

for this kind of power incerts all arround

arround 100$ for all 4 awr.com & rr-racing .com have them

You already have the intake (cai will be more powerfull, but the SRI safer, you choose)

Exhaust

Contrary to what some have said in this thread the reg Pro exhaust is NOT completly the same as the MSP. I hope everybody understands an exhaust is only as good as the point with the most ristriction. You can have uber flow before or after but there will always be that bottle neck. the Muffler and exit pipe are some SERIOUS bottle necks & swaping them for even just the MSP axl back makes improvements in the flow & this in turn benifits the other mods.

Sooo I sujest a Mid pipe with a high flow cat (or catless if you prefer) as the mid pipe is another area of needless ristriction inthe system.

Arround 200$-300$ MAM used to make them but they areclosed (I think they are closed) there is another place that makes them (a tad more expensive though)

Of you can get a High flow cat, flex pipe and get a garage to fab up one for you, but you will have to ask them for the cost.

& a Axl back system (Get a bolt on kit)

This can be expensive dependig the rout you go

I sugest eBay, where you can get a used MSP axl back for arround 200$ (The Stealership will ask for arround 500$)

Headers

Grab some OBX headers off eBay for 200$

UDP Under Drive Pulley.

the headers hook you up up high, but rob you a bit down low, this will ballance that out a bit so the low end wont be so crappy after the headers are put in.

they also make improvements through the entire rpm range. They dont really generate more power but reduce the loss of power from the engine to the wheel.

The tough part is the Cams

There is a groupe buy for some hot Cams, Im not sure but they look expensive for the set (Arround 500$)

You can get blanks machened to the H9 (J-spec Cam) Cam specks

Or hope to find somebody with one selling them as Mazda doesnt make them anymore.

The MP3 ECU can be thrown in at any time and will be benificial, They are a bitch to find depending on whre you are.

This would be a start, and put you in the right direction, if your not satisfied up to this point, then Turbo would be the only way to go ;)

If you like the launch har a stage 2 clutch might be in order, and if you putting that in there is no reason to not put in a Lightened flywheel.

there are alot of other things you can do along the way, this is pretty RAW

Remove the VITC and port polish the intake manifold (Hell I would sugest that too)

& ......Engine Management.

[02PROTEGE2.0]

if u can get lucky and come accross one, i suggest finding the ractive header or saving up for the AWR 4-2-1.

just looking at those two structurely the way they are made opposed to the OBX, its easy to see how they would make more power, the obx goes from 4-1 almost at the same spot as the stock headers, right where the precat was.

however the Ractive is 4 pipes all the way to the mid pipe and the AWR is 4-2-1, also not c losing into one untill the mid pipe...


and just for clarifcation, the catback is the same on msp and sedan, only difference is muffler and midpipe. (midpipe has 2 cats on msp)

[Rac3rX]

Personally I like 4-1 design better.

When thinking about a header thinh 4-2-1 Mid range power gains (Great for V-Tec's who have dick squat for torque, especially down low before V-tec kicks in) HOWever the FS DE actually make pretty decent Torque, but dooesnt briing it super high in the rpm's (because of no V-tec) to make as much hp out of that torquue thhat a V-Tec would. Soo because we have no lack of low end torque, improvements in the top end will be more benificial.

4-2-1 design doesnt make more power then 4-1, 4-1 makes more power and makes its gains higher up in the rpm's (Thats how) at the sacrafice of a few ponies down low. 4-2-1 design makes less power gains, & it makes its gains more twords the mid range, however it doesnt have as much of a hurt on the low end.

4-1 flow more as the nature of the design (Only going through 1 set of colectors as aposed to 3) Understand how the torque curve works, all before peak is where the cylinders have more then enough time to fill, increase flow and this will move the peak higher in the rpm's, efectively giving you more power at higher rpms but too much flow in the lower end.

Fortunatly when accelerating hard the rpms dont usually drop to below the torque peak (Or not much below, remember we are NOT talking about the hp)

Unfortuanatly if your auto X'ing on tight short tracks iit migh have you a little boggie, however...

When putting in 4-1 headers, its good to accompany it with a UDP, to ballence it out a bit, that should take care of any down low losses and bogginess.

In the end the 4-1's will generate more Power (Peak)

[YelloTerbo5]

I'm sorry but after being in the Protege world for awhile now, the only way that you are going to make respectable numbers is by going turbo. If you want to be fast N/A... Buy a K series Honda. Our cars just were not made to be a quick N/A car period. I tried once to stay natural at one point, and was not happy with it so I sprayed it. After spraying it, I still was not happy. Seriously if you want to be anywhere in the relm of being "quick", buy a turbo setup. If you want to be fast, you better have a deep pocket. I am not trying to bash anyone by this post, but I thought that this just needed to be cleared up.

[Rac3rX]

Im confused, why do people think there needs to be clarificatin that a Turbo will make the car faster then N/A? DUH!!!!!


He wants his car to be a little quicker, not a track killer, so c'mon, get of this TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO TURBO Trip, and grow up! Yeah no kidding a turbo wil lmake it go faster.

What does one persone Not being satisfied with a Hp level and going bigger to satisfy there own desires, have to do with somebody elese and there desires? Do you automatically think they have the same priorities that you do, and or the same goals or use of there vehicle? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!! I cant beleve you give your opinion without reading the thread enough to understand the jist of it, as clearly you didnt as you would of understood his goal is not to be crazy fast, or even considered "Fast" you would know, he just want to be faster. Enlight of this whats your point?

Im so sick of the T-Asses who come bomb on the N/A guys just trying to enjoy there ride for what it is. Yeah we know its not a porche GET OVER IT!!!!!!... These guys are Losers with a biger monthly ;)

However Cheaper? WTF is that nonsence? Number 1 there isnt enough $$$$ to make the N/A fully loaded motor as fast as the same block fully loaded with a turbo. So we cant talk about built to the same power (we have to be relitively speaking), so we have to compare the 2 builds to the potention of what it is (FI & N/A). You mean to tell me you actualy beleve that it will be more expensive to fully build a N/A FS DE then a Fully Build a Boosted FS DE? You do know a Turbo requires more parts ALOT more part right?

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[drivethruecp]

I think hes looking for a little direction,and not a FULL planned out build.

To answer your question

First off I will have to agree, that mods on a N/A engine bassically work arround freeing up the breathing of the engine & they will all work best together. However like myself I would assume your working with a budget and plan to get parts as you can afford them.

Ill give my opinion and sugestions, I would have a goal of arround 130 to 135 whp (based on what youve been explaining you wanta)

Motor mounts.

for this kind of power incerts all arround

arround 100$ for all 4 awr.com & rr-racing .com have them

You already have the intake (cai will be more powerfull, but the SRI safer, you choose)

Exhaust

Contrary to what some have said in this thread the reg Pro exhaust is NOT completly the same as the MSP. I hope everybody understands an exhaust is only as good as the point with the most ristriction. You can have uber flow before or after but there will always be that bottle neck. the Muffler and exit pipe are some SERIOUS bottle necks & swaping them for even just the MSP axl back makes improvements in the flow & this in turn benifits the other mods.

Sooo I sujest a Mid pipe with a high flow cat (or catless if you prefer) as the mid pipe is another area of needless ristriction inthe system.

Arround 200$-300$ MAM used to make them but they areclosed (I think they are closed) there is another place that makes them (a tad more expensive though)

Of you can get a High flow cat, flex pipe and get a garage to fab up one for you, but you will have to ask them for the cost.

& a Axl back system (Get a bolt on kit)

This can be expensive dependig the rout you go

I sugest eBay, where you can get a used MSP axl back for arround 200$ (The Stealership will ask for arround 500$)

Headers

Grab some OBX headers off eBay for 200$

UDP Under Drive Pulley.

the headers hook you up up high, but rob you a bit down low, this will ballance that out a bit so the low end wont be so crappy after the headers are put in.

they also make improvements through the entire rpm range. They dont really generate more power but reduce the loss of power from the engine to the wheel.

The tough part is the Cams

There is a groupe buy for some hot Cams, Im not sure but they look expensive for the set (Arround 500$)

You can get blanks machened to the H9 (J-spec Cam) Cam specks

Or hope to find somebody with one selling them as Mazda doesnt make them anymore.

The MP3 ECU can be thrown in at any time and will be benificial, They are a bitch to find depending on whre you are.

This would be a start, and put you in the right direction, if your not satisfied up to this point, then Turbo would be the only way to go ;)

If you like the launch har a stage 2 clutch might be in order, and if you putting that in there is no reason to not put in a Lightened flywheel.

there are alot of other things you can do along the way, this is pretty RAW

Remove the VITC and port polish the intake manifold (Hell I would sugest that too)

& ......Engine Management.

That sounds like a VERY good plan man! Can I get an explanation on a UDP and what it does for your car as well as the motor mounts?

And thank you Rac3rX for understanding about the whole not wanting a turbo thing (bang) and for the lengthy and very informative and intelligent explanations! Not to say others haven't contributed a lot to this discussion. Just read the posts first and realize this is NOT ABOUT A TURBO, nor will it ever lead to it! I appreciate the car as N/A like Rac3rX clearly understands. Glad to know people even with a turbo already can understand where I'm coming from.

[YelloTerbo5]

Alright so if you want to take this into another aspect, take the Honda world for an example. Yes there have been many cars that have been built with the same amount as a turbo car that are running the same general times, but then again they have much more aftermarket support and a platform than we do. Go ahead and try to build an N/A FS series motor that will run along with lets say CWILL. Good luck with the R&D that you will have with this engine. I am not trying to turn this into a little bash as so as you seem. I understand that many of the people on here are trying to make their cars a little quicker but do not have the money to do so. When it comes down to it if you want to make this engine respectable, you need to go down the route of forced induction. Sorry if I turned tables on this posting, but I am just posting what I feel is right and will not give anyone false ideas.

[drivethruecp]

Alright so if you want to take this into another aspect, take the Honda world for an example. Yes there have been many cars that have been built with the same amount as a turbo car that are running the same general times, but then again they have much more aftermarket support and a platform than we do. Go ahead and try to build an N/A FS series motor that will run along with lets say CWILL. Good luck with the R&D that you will have with this engine. I am not trying to turn this into a little bash as so as you seem. I understand that many of the people on here are trying to make their cars a little quicker but do not have the money to do so. When it comes down to it if you want to make this engine respectable, you need to go down the route of forced induction. Sorry if I turned tables on this posting, but I am just posting what I feel is right and will not give anyone false ideas.

OMG! I just want it a little quicker...I dont want it "fast" or whateva....dude...comon'....read the previous posts and you'll see thats not the point AT ALL.

[Rac3rX]

OMG! I just want it a little quicker...I dont want it "fast" or whateva....dude...comon'....read the previous posts and you'll see thats not the point AT ALL.

None blinder then those who refuse to see....

NP bro, I uderstand where your coming from. Im loving my N/A Protege for what it is, yes I do have plans for turbo once the car is paid, but m not going to be a punk and cry like a bitch about it untill it is, Im still going to enjoy her and take her far.

As far as N/A proteges being straight slow, Get over it, Ummm 14 second N/A P5 already, (And Im getting close to the same set up [cant wait for ems]) Noo its not an 11 second Boosted time, but.............

So 14 seconds N/A is alright for me until I get boosted ;)


As for the UDP "Under drive Pulley" Basically its a new lightened up drive pulley (Every peice of weight save on that = hp at all points of the rpm range) it also SLIGHTLY underdrives the engine and suposedly that accouns for a few more ponies.

Because it gives its gains at all points of the rpms pretty evenly it generally restors whatever low end loss one whould receive from installing a 4-1 header, with a few ponies bonus everywhere.

Motor mounts are what hold the motor to the frame and the Proteges (all modles even the MSP) SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!

because they are so week there is ALOT of engine lash, and wheel hop, making driving a 3rd gen Protege smooth with stock mounts next to imposible.

Motor mounts & or motor mount incerts will cure the wheel hop. The Stiffer you go the less wheel hop thee is, but the stiffer you go the higher the increase of cabin vibrations, so its a real trade off, With the build Ive sugested, Motor mount incerts all arround would be just right.

Good luck on it.

[drivethruecp]

NP bro, I uderstand where your coming from. Im loving my N/A Protege for what it is, yes I do have plans for turbo once the car is paid, but m not going to be a punk and cry like a bitch about it untill it is, Im still going to enjoy her and take her far.

As far as N/A proteges being straight slow, Get over it, Ummm 14 second N/A P5 already, (And Im getting close to the same set up [cant wait for ems]) Noo its not an 11 second Boosted time, but.............


Are you implying I'm crying and bitching about it...? Cuz I'm not...I do realize I can only go so far...and I too am still paying off my car. Should I get the Headers, UDP or Motor Mounts First? Or in that order..

[Rac3rX]

Are you implying I'm crying and bitching about it...? Cuz I'm not...I do realize I can only go so far...and I too am still paying off my car. Should I get the Headers, UDP or Motor Mounts First? Or in that order..

Not at all dude, (Read the content of my post annd the nature of it, ONLY the first comment in my post was adressed directly at you and it was in agreance/responce to your last point "dude...comon'....read the previous posts and you'll see thats not the point AT ALL." My responce "None blinder then those who refuse to see") I hope that clears that up.


Im all about taking your car where your budget can (hell thats exactly what Im doing) Im up to swap shit about my ride with you anytime. :)

Im implying that YelloTerbo5 is crying about N/A's being slow and only slow untill Boosted and Blah blah blah Terbo terbo terbo, not realizing that some of us dont have the same goals, intentions, plans, funds, ect as everybody else. Or that the Thread strater stated quite a ways back his goals, and if that were read, they would understand why these comments about boost boost boost are so out of context.

[Kansei]

Are you implying I'm crying and bitching about it...? Cuz I'm not...I do realize I can only go so far...and I too am still paying off my car. Should I get the Headers, UDP or Motor Mounts First? Or in that order..

I say get at least a front motor mount before you get the headers, don't want to have the engine move a ton abd break shit :P

But the headers, UDP, and MP3 ECU will gives you nice gains that you can definitely feel.

[Rac3rX]

I say get at least a front motor mount before you get the headers, don't want to have the engine move a ton abd break shit :P

But the headers, UDP, and MP3 ECU will gives you nice gains that you can definitely feel.


Yup, I totally agree, & I wish I had done this too.

Get the motor mount or incerts put in first thing, so as to not break anything.

[Kansei]

Yup, I totally agree, & I wish I had done this too.

Get the motor mount or incerts put in first thing, so as to not break anything.

They do make the idle and takeoff VERY rough, I'm still wondering whether it was worth it or not. I have the AWR 70duro front and RR Racing rear inserts.

[Rac3rX]

I got the RR-Racing incerts F & R, Only for a few weeks it was rough starting the car, at idle, and when starting from a stop slow. they broke in after a month or so, and feel pretty much like stock, only the car has a gentil vibe at idle (barely nticeable, I like it, but Grandma might be like "the car vibrates")

[drivethruecp]

Yeh, then I'll go with the motor mounts first...Is either brand better then the other?... Hey, a little off topic..but does anyone elses Protege's engine sound like a faint diesel or truck at idle? Mines pretty damn noisy!

[Kansei]

Yeh, then I'll go with the motor mounts first...Is either brand better then the other?... Hey, a little off topic..but does anyone elses Protege's engine sound like a faint diesel or truck at idle? Mines pretty damn noisy!

That's the VTCS system. It is a system of butterflies in the intake manifold that cause turbulance when the engine is cold to help it warm up faster and/or reduce cold start emissions. I removed the whole system (removed the butterflies/rod, sealed up holes, plugged the solenoid in still so that I don't have a check engine light.

I use an engine block heater anyway so VTCS wasn't turning on much... but yeah. The other way to turn it off without a check engine light is to get a Protege MP3 ECU.

[Rac3rX]

What you did was better by removing then, if you shut them off with the MP3 ECU they will still be there F-ing up flow,what you did gets rid ogf them all togethe, and give a keen oportunity to port out the intake maniforl (Im sure you did that too) I havnt done mine yet but its in the plans

[drivethruecp]

But I get the sound whether my engine is cold, warm, hot...its always noisy. I feel like maybe its not running right and theres something I need to do! The noise is even heard in the cabin, but I mostly have music on so never hear it. I just doubt it can be good to sound like this with 60k, it can only get worse....

[cplagge]

heres kindof a different question, will installing a turbo decrease engine life?

[drivethruecp]

heres kindof a different question, will installing a turbo decrease engine life?

Of course. I'm not sure how to explain it properly, so i'll leave that up to everyone else.

[GoProtege]

heres kindof a different question, will installing a turbo decrease engine life?
yes...The turbo adds alot of heat and power that the engine is not necessarily designed for. But as long as you take good care of the engine and don't go crazy on the boost, It shouldn't be too bad of a decrease. More than likely your tranny will go out before the engine. I've had my turbo for 2 years, engine is fine, tranny is almost gone. Just my $.02

~Jeff