Looking into MSP's... [Archive]

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Xcelr8to1320

10-20-2006, 12:34 PM

But i have heard that some people with enitrely stock MSP's have been know to have blowing motors. From what i was told an MSP is a stock Protege motor with a turbo and that these motors aren't made to handle much boost. Also even if the vehicle is under warranty and the motor blows it will not be replaced under warranty. This is kind of scaring me away from MSP's. Could some of you please shed some light on the subject. I've researched and know about the common problems, none of which seem like they're too hard to fix, but this motor thing is a little bigger of a problem so discuss, throw in info, or whatever you'd like to contribute. Thanks in advance everyone.

~Alex

silverspeed03

10-20-2006, 12:43 PM

If you don't abuse your car and make sure you have supporting mods i.e. Engine managment, you really should not have any problems.

Nickd

10-20-2006, 12:49 PM

Most people are blowing motors because of a bad tune or dont have supporting mods. If your gonna up the boost just make sure you at least get a downpipe/midpipe before you do!

k-lea

10-20-2006, 12:53 PM

MSMSMSMSMSMSMSMSMSMSM

mazdaspeed miata. ;p

winty87

10-20-2006, 03:55 PM

justanotheradikt

10-20-2006, 04:00 PM

header?

as far as a boosted here they have the mani and downpipe...as far as exhaust goes with upping boost...id def say you need a manifold, downpipe, and rest of the exhaust...

winty87

10-20-2006, 04:03 PM

header?

as far as a boosted here they have the mani and downpipe...as far as exhaust goes with upping boost...id def say you need a manifold, downpipe, and rest of the exhaust...

well yeah, thats what I mean mani or downpipe

justanotheradikt

10-20-2006, 04:05 PM

well yeah, thats what I mean mani or downpipe

figured... :)

kamon8404

10-20-2006, 04:08 PM

Alex and I have talked about this numerous times but I'll put up what I've told him so other guys can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on the research and info I've gathered for my possible Turbo upgrade within 2-3 years.

From what I'm getting from Alex, I'm thinking he wants to be boosting around 9-12 psi. What I have read on the forum is that really the only supporting mods you will need are:
FMIC/SMIC
Full/Catback exhaust
Header
Hardpipes
Intake
Fuel managment
Boost Controller
Bigger Injectors

For the most part I think it is driver error that is whats blowing these motors, aside from the weak rods and bearings.

I'm not that turbo knowledgeable on our cars yet. But I think i've gathered enough info to make a decent opinion.

Nice listing for a set of mods to reach that goal. I think that you listed header in there on accident though. Just remember of WOT in 5th, and you should be fine with what is listed above. I would like to reccomend a J&S safeguard to pull timing, and protect against detonation. I don't have one yet but I will be ordering mine soon. I have only heard great things. Let me know how the build goes!

kamon8404

10-20-2006, 04:08 PM

Damn you heath, you type faster than me!

justanotheradikt

10-20-2006, 04:18 PM

Damn you heath, you type faster than me!

well i dont have to do the lemon test as much as you...frees up some time to type...hehe (glare)

winty87

10-20-2006, 04:22 PM

Nice listing for a set of mods to reach that goal. I think that you listed header in there on accident though. Just remember of WOT in 5th, and you should be fine with what is listed above. I would like to reccomend a J&S safeguard to pull timing, and protect against detonation. I don't have one yet but I will be ordering mine soon. I have only heard great things. Let me know how the build goes!

Thats what sitting on these forums for atleast 4 hours a day will do to ya when your picking away at homework. I've read pretty much every blown turboed motor and what supporting mods they had on it. I really want him to get this MSP or find a Turboed P5 so we can tinker away and build it up. Plus I'll have a Mazda to roll with me around town and someone who will actually be able to keep up on the curves.(first)

Yellow MSP

10-20-2006, 08:04 PM

For the most part I think it is driver error that is whats blowing these motors, aside from the weak rods and bearings.

I'm not that turbo knowledgeable on our cars yet. But I think i've gathered enough info to make a decent opinion.

I agree 100%. Engines do not just blow up with under 100k miles on them (and most engines will run much farther than that as well), there must be a reason behind it. Most common is detonation (knock) which is the result of a car not being tuned correctly. This is what is the most common engine killer. Lack of knowledge and supporting mods. Just because you have a boost controller that allows you to turn the boost up to 15 psi does not mean that you should or that your car can handle the extra power. Unless the engine was assembled wrong at the factory (which you would know from the get go), pretty much all engines are equal when new. It is the lack of care (going over 3k miles or 3 months with oil changes, putting in regular gas, redlining every gear, launching at every stop light to beat a KIA, etc) that makes an engine that much more likely to blow up. Lack of oil or pressure will also destroy an engine in no time (which is what happened to my GSX) which may or may not be preventable (like losing a two quart of oil after a couple miles (pissed) ). But engines do not just say "Hey, I feel like throwing a rod right about now, just to really piss off the owner".

Anyways, sorry for the long rant or whatever, but I am a firm believer that if you take care of your engine and it is properly tuned there is no reason why it won't hold extra power. Granted the interals are weak, but horsepower itself does not kill them, it is more how it is driven (reving up to 5k and then dropping the clutch will put a massive amount of torque on the rods for example).

Xcelr8to1320

10-20-2006, 08:48 PM

What is this issue i hear about with WOT in 5th?

~Alex

winty87

10-22-2006, 02:35 PM

bump, i'm interested to see what the prob is too

daedalus

10-22-2006, 02:37 PM

buy my car. then you dont have to worry about any of your worries. 'nuff said.

Xcelr8to1320

10-22-2006, 07:26 PM

buy my car. then you dont have to worry about any of your worries. 'nuff said.

I'd love too but i don't have the money unless you're interested in trades.

~Alex

JBreed

10-22-2006, 08:15 PM

MSP's are simply Protege 2.0 motors w/ turbos, and suspesion upgrades. oh yeah...They come with some nice interior and color choices!!! A very fun car, BUT they were not built for turbo applications.period.That part is up to you...

JBreed

10-22-2006, 08:23 PM

I agree 100%. Engines do not just blow up with under 100k miles on them (and most engines will run much farther than that as well), there must be a reason behind it. Most common is detonation (knock) which is the result of a car not being tuned correctly. This is what is the most common engine killer. Lack of knowledge and supporting mods. Just because you have a boost controller that allows you to turn the boost up to 15 psi does not mean that you should or that your car can handle the extra power. Unless the engine was assembled wrong at the factory (which you would know from the get go), pretty much all engines are equal when new. It is the lack of care (going over 3k miles or 3 months with oil changes, putting in regular gas, redlining every gear, launching at every stop light to beat a KIA, etc) that makes an engine that much more likely to blow up. Lack of oil or pressure will also destroy an engine in no time (which is what happened to my GSX) which may or may not be preventable (like losing a two quart of oil after a couple miles (pissed) ). But engines do not just say "Hey, I feel like throwing a rod right about now, just to really piss off the owner".

Anyways, sorry for the long rant or whatever, but I am a firm believer that if you take care of your engine and it is properly tuned there is no reason why it won't hold extra power. Granted the interals are weak, but horsepower itself does not kill them, it is more how it is driven (reving up to 5k and then dropping the clutch will put a massive amount of torque on the rods for example).

maintenance is key, but no 2 ENGINES ARE THE SAME. These cars were made for like 98 horsepower or something ridiculous like that. They need a lot of mods to make them reliable, even with minor boost increase. These are facts, That is all for now.:)

Xcelr8to1320

10-22-2006, 08:30 PM

so does anyone care to go into depth on the WOT 5th gear thing?

~Alex

JBreed

10-22-2006, 08:31 PM

so does anyone care to go into depth on the WOT 5th gear thing?

~Alex

sure,they can't handle it without supporting mods.

low_psi

10-22-2006, 08:38 PM

so does anyone care to go into depth on the WOT 5th gear thing?

~Alex

5th gear is high load, boost is high load. The two together can kill any motor. You can dip into boost on the highway and whatnot for passing, but putting the hammer down and keeping it planted until redline isn't good for the motor.

The MSP is a blast to drive and is quick enough with a few boltons and raised boost. It can be reliable and make 200whp, but there are lots of people who rag on their cars nonstop and don't tune/maintain it properly, then blame a weak motor when it breaks. Treat it well, and it will treat you well.

The LSD failures are more of a problem than motors popping.

JBreed

10-22-2006, 09:03 PM

no offense, but weakest links are the proteges internals(rod bearings, wrist pins , and rods), even with supporting mods.:)

low_psi

10-22-2006, 10:27 PM

You can keep a MSP stock and break the LSD much easier than the motor. But yes, the rods suck for anything over 230whp reliably.

JBreed- I heard about your troubles last night, sorry things haven't gone well. Sounds like you're all fixed up now though.

JBreed

10-22-2006, 10:30 PM

Xcelr8to1320

10-22-2006, 11:09 PM

so is 200whp the highest i can probably go on factory internals

~Alex

Earful

10-22-2006, 11:12 PM

The internals may be able to take more...but not boosted.....

low_psi

10-23-2006, 12:16 AM

so is 200whp the highest i can probably go on factory internals

~Alex

It all depends on driving/maintaince habits, the tune and how often you boost the car. I ran 220whp+ for drag pulls, but have never run my car over 190whp for extended periods of time. 46K+ miles, 4 track days, 3 autoXs, etc and my car is still running strong as a daily driver. Most people don't blow their motors running >10psi with a tune. Some owners have made over 260whp on the stock block.

Xcelr8to1320

10-23-2006, 01:49 AM

well if i go MSP I'd want to push the most psi for safe daily driving and rippin' around without worrying about blowing it.

~Alex

kamon8404

10-23-2006, 09:43 AM

Well look at it this way. My car used too spike at about 9 psi and settle at 8 (before the MBC), and my car was pulling on a 1.8T that was running at 18psi. The car is lighter than most cars, and seems to use what it has wisely. I would venture to say that 10psi in the msp in A LOT different that 15 psi in another car with more weight (just laws of physics). In addition too, there are those few MSPs out there that were pulling on "faster" cars while only being at 10psi. Its all about the tune, and supporting mods. Once properly tuned and a welded LSD you don't have much to worry about; if well maintained.

Xcelr8to1320

10-23-2006, 11:47 AM

Also i've been reading about the blown LSD thing and to be honest, it's kinda pushin me away. And i've been reading about people welding the diffs, but wouldn't that kill drivabilty, espicially in snow, because you're basically putting a spooled diff in a FWD car, so tires are gunna rip apart too.

~Alex

Earful

10-23-2006, 01:25 PM

If you can get your hands on a nice MSP...you better get it! These cars are a collector's item of sorts....rare.

Xcelr8to1320

10-23-2006, 01:27 PM

If you can get your hands on a nice MSP...you better get it! These cars are a collector's item of sorts....rare.

But if i get one i'm gunna be driving it allllll over the place. but i want good reliable power, and with the LSD's blowin out and whatnot it seems like it might not be a good way to go.

~Alex