Has the MS3 dethroned SRT4?

[Donas64]

With the arrival of all the shiny new MS3's to dealers, has the Neon SRT 4 been officially dethroned as the king of the pocket rocket hill? Or is it still to early to call a TKO?

Better Perfomance = not quite sure about this one yet
Better Handling = Advantage MS3
Better After market = too early to tell
Better interior = TKO MS3
Tunder Desireability = Too early to tell.

Your opinions are wanted.

http://www.hotchkistuning.com/bin/images/vehicles/srt4_test.jpg

vs.

http://cache.jalopnik.com/images/2006/04/mazdaspeed3_ny.jpg

The old pro will a killer knockout punch vs. The new kid with the fresh legs and a lotta guts!

It's gunna be good!

[ZoomZoomH]

i'm still amazed that the engineers at Dodge can never figure out how to fit a powered window motor into the rear doors of a Neon, poor engineering ftl lol

[Donas64]

Also please I don't want this to turn into a SRT4 vs MSP or vs MS3 flamefest. Just based on what we know. It's just about an admitted fact that the SRT4 changed the pocket rocket game and no ones really had the balls to take it on....till now.

[Donas64]

i'm still amazed that the engineers at Dodge can never figure out how to fit a powered window motor into the rear doors of a Neon, poor engineering ftl lol

yeah that is quite funny.

[evilmonkeyMSP]

The MS3 dethrones the SRT4 w/ its looks alone...not even mentioning all the other goodies :D

[MP3Architect]

i dont think it would be fair to say ms3 vs neon srt4. are they still selling neon srt4's? once the caliber comes out...that should be the nemises of the ms3.

[Donas64]

i dont think it would be fair to say ms3 vs neon srt4. are they still selling neon srt4's? once the caliber comes out...that should be the nemises of the ms3.

I fully understand that. But it's current nemesis is the SRT4 wether they make it or not.

Despite it's crappy values the SRT4 is still the cheapest way to go fast available out right now. Nothing even came close to touching it for the price until the MS3 came out. So until the Caliber comes out, the only thing to compare the MS3 powerwise too and thats in the same price range is the Neon SRT4.

now back on topic: Is there any truth to the claim that the SRT4 is actually faster in the quarter while and might actually put more power down to the wheels than the MS3?

[Black_Protege_5]

Yea it is too early to tell still. Power wise I am not sure if the ms3 will be able to catch up. But the SRT-4 can't really handle that well. Plus ppl are saying that the ms3 doesn't even handle that well especially under throttle. Stock on stock the ms3 should take it. But give them both some good suspension and engine mods and it will be close. Now if only the ms3 can handle as well as the Pro then there is no question.

[CTt3P5]

i dont think it would be fair to say ms3 vs neon srt4. are they still selling neon srt4's? once the caliber comes out...that should be the nemises of the ms3.

Yes, Dodge did the dirty work by discontinuing the neon. I personally liked the srt-4 (and the MS3 wins in all categories IMO). But I do agree that it should be the MS3 vs the Caliber srt.

http://http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/08/aye-carumba-dodge-unloads-the-300-hp-caliber-srt-4/

[jbiird317]

i never was a fan of dodges comfort, style, or reliability. I think the SRT4 was a good car, but the caliber srt is the real challenger. From what I've read it will be slightly more powerful, but heavier and handle worse. I would still take my ms3 over the caliber srt4 based on looks alone.

[Donas64]

So no one is going to answer my freakin question as to wether the Brand new MS3 is a better performer (HP, TORQUE, ¼ mile times) than the long in tooth SRT4? Geez!! You guys THE CALIBER IS NOT OUT YET!!!!!!!

I'm interested in knowing if new is indeed better and if MAZDA got it right this time.

We can save the MS3 vs CALIBER debates when the caliber is actually OUT!

[toucci]

My question is: what throne? (peep)

[evilmonkeyMSP]

hahaha Zing!

My question is: what throne? (peep)

[Donas64]

My question is: what throne? (peep)

The throne of the fastest pocket rocket. Very Fast, very affordable.

[Kansei]

^^ and 450whp possible on stock motor and turbo!! that's nothing to laugh at for a car that is/was so cheap!

[Captain KRM P5]

stock for stock in a quarter mile race i think the neon srt4 would have the advantage

[ZoomZoomH]

caliber is horrific looking thing of a car, it's more like a mini crossover than a car actually, pocket rocket my ass

[Donas64]

caliber is horrific looking thing of a car, it's more like a mini crossover than a car actually, pocket rocket my ass

It is an ugly looking brick, but it going .to be an incredibly fast, ridiculously torquey ugly looking brick

[Donas64]

stock for stock in a quarter mile race i think the neon srt4 would have the advantage

That surprises me because the MS3 has more horsepower and and torque.

[evilmonkeyMSP]

the srt4 gets more of it to the wheels tho...

That surprises me because the MS3 has more horsepower and and torque.

[Hughes412]

Stock for stock the MS3 V SRT4 will be close but the 3 should win in a streight line because of the hp. But with the extra weight the SRT has the advantage in the turns. I wont get into the IF if was modded yet. The hiboost 3s are running 400 to 500 hp and we already know the srt can also. I also liked the looks of the srt4. The 3 looks good too but but it isn't all that.


I just wished they would put a 300hp RX8, then I would be excited.

[Hughes412]

stock for stock in a quarter mile race i think the neon srt4 would have the advantage
They both get about the same whp in 1st and 2nd gears, but then the torq limiter goes away for the rest of the gears so more whp and torq. I would think it's like a NOS shot at the end of the 1/4.

[Donas64]

Stock for stock the MS3 V SRT4 will be close but the 3 should win in a streight line because of the hp. But with the extra weight the SRT has the advantage in the turns. I wont get into the IF if was modded yet. The hiboost 3s are running 400 to 500 hp and we already know the srt can also. I also liked the looks of the srt4. The 3 looks good too but but it isn't all that.


I just wished they would put a 300hp RX8, then I would be excited.


If the SRT-4 can outhandle an MS3 stock then the MS3 must have some sucky handling.

Also a 300 hp RX8 would quickly rocket to to near the top of my "cars to own before I die" list.

[MP3Architect]

when the caliber is actually OUT!
dude the ms3 is barely "out". yeah so the magazines have gotten to review them and yeah there are a few dealers out there that have JUST began to trickle them in over the past few days but i woudln't call that out. shit, i cant go to any dealer in houston, the 4th largest city in the US and test drive one. who knows, perhaps next week all the ms3 motors will blow and all the anticipation will be for nothing. just wait and see.

[Kansei]

dude the ms3 is barely "out". yeah so the magazines have gotten to review them and yeah there are a few dealers out there that have JUST began to trickle them in over the past few days but i woudln't call that out. shit, i cant go to any dealer in houston, the 4th largest city in the US and test drive one. who knows, perhaps next week all the ms3 motors will blow and all the anticipation will be for nothing. just wait and see.

I sat in one and ogled for a few minutes at a random small town in Ontario the other day lol. Mazda = no love for the states.

[Donas64]

dude the ms3 is barely "out". yeah so the magazines have gotten to review them and yeah there are a few dealers out there that have JUST began to trickle them in over the past few days but i woudln't call that out. shit, i cant go to any dealer in houston, the 4th largest city in the US and test drive one. who knows, perhaps next week all the ms3 motors will blow and all the anticipation will be for nothing. just wait and see.

The car is out. Just not in the states. People have sat in them, taken test drives and magazines have flogged them. I know it's a little early but it's not like it's a prototype that people have not gotten to drive yet. I'm just doing some speculating.

[MP3Architect]

The car is out. Just not in the states. People have sat in them, taken test drives and magazines have flogged them. I know it's a little early but it's not like it's a prototype that people have not gotten to drive yet. I'm just doing some speculating.
oh. sorry. canada just doesn't really exist to me and my friends down here in texas. we always think of it as just a bunch of ice waiting to be taken over by americans with pitch forks! (enguard) j/k buddy.

[Donas64]

oh. sorry. canada just doesn't really exist to me and my friends down here in texas. we always think of it as just a bunch of ice waiting to be taken over by americans with pitch forks! (enguard) j/k buddy.

No offense taken. I live in VA!!!:)

[Kansei]

oh. sorry. canada just doesn't really exist to me and my friends down here in texas. we always think of it as just a bunch of ice waiting to be taken over by americans with pitch forks! (enguard) j/k buddy.
I really hope america never takes over canada, it would sully the whole nation.

*I heart Canada (canada)*

[Hughes412]

Canada sucks, but that's off topic.

[kamon8404]

Well, I would have to say that this debate should wait until we get some owners on the forums here. Or when we actually see a vid of them racing each other, because lets face it; its going to happen!

[Donas64]

Well, I would have to say that this debate should wait until we get some owners on the forums here. Or when we actually see a vid of them racing each other, because lets face it; its going to happen!

I'm eagerly awaiting that!!!(glare)

[trees]

stock for stock in a quarter mile race i think the neon srt4 would have the advantage
Ditto

[sephiroth]

With the arrival of all the shiny new MS3's to dealers, has the Neon SRT 4 been officially dethroned as the king of the pocket rocket hill? Or is it still to early to call a TKO?

Better Perfomance = not quite sure about this one yet
Better Handling = Advantage MS3
Better After market = too early to tell
Better interior = TKO MS3
Tunder Desireability = Too early to tell.


I think it's a fair thing to say that if the MSP got as much attention as it did(for being second best pocket-rocket car of it's day), the MS3 will get at least as much.

[MP3Architect]

I think it's a fair thing to say that if the MSP got as much attention as it did(for being second best pocket-rocket car of it's day), the MS3 will get at least as much.
yeah but the neon srt4 still had FAR much attention

[arkitek]

I test drove a MS3 in Toronto a few weeks ago actually.
Very nice car.
Compared to the current MSP I own, it's definitely an upgrade. The only thing the MSP has over the MS3 is the tighter handling due to the lighter weight. Mind you, my MSP got stickier tires though. With the same tires on both, I would think the MS3 will be very close to the MSP in handling.

I'd trade the MSP in for the added powah and the added refinement though, not to mention the cargo space.

[mp3josh]

atleast kids won't flip them from their ass end's beign too high with alot of horse powa.

[kamon8404]

I test drove a MS3 in Toronto a few weeks ago actually.
Very nice car.
Compared to the current MSP I own, it's definitely an upgrade. The only thing the MSP has over the MS3 is the tighter handling due to the lighter weight. Mind you, my MSP got stickier tires though. With the same tires on both, I would think the MS3 will be very close to the MSP in handling.

I'd trade the MSP in for the added powah and the added refinement though, not to mention the cargo space.


What mods do you have?

[Rennoc]

my son has an srt4, and i have to say that i am not very impressed with its handles. i would confidently say that my 3s handles better than it, granted it has mods now, when it was stock i am confident that it handled better. imo the ms3 will be even more of a sleep with that torque limiter because once we get to third, well shoot ahead of a lot of cars.

[arkitek]

What mods do you have?

SMIC, Exhaust, 9psi, Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3

The MS3 stock tires aren't as good as the MSP stock tires I don't think. But that's easily fixed of course. :)

[got_titan]

well guys, heres an honest answer to your question....just bought a ms3 and first thing i had to do is show the neighbor down the road i aint messing around....lol the neon and the ms3 are torque limited in 1st and 2nd....with that being said the neon was pretty stock(air intake) and my ms3 bone stock......1st and 2nd was pretty close and 3rd gear i pulled slightly......about 4-5 feet and stayed there until about 75mph until it was unsafe to go faster......thats an honest account of two fairly even drivers.....

[Knox Joe]

well guys, heres an honest answer to your question....just bought a ms3 and first thing i had to do is show the neighbor down the road i aint messing around....lol the neon and the ms3 are torque limited in 1st and 2nd....with that being said the neon was pretty stock(air intake) and my ms3 bone stock......1st and 2nd was pretty close and 3rd gear i pulled slightly......about 4-5 feet and stayed there until about 75mph until it was unsafe to go faster......thats an honest account of two fairly even drivers.....

I figured that. The SRT-4 is a high 13's car, and the MS3 is supposedly a low 14 sec. car.


I think I saw you driving on the highway yesterday. Is your MS3 black?

[BLU BY U]

well guys, heres an honest answer to your question....just bought a ms3 and first thing i had to do is show the neighbor down the road i aint messing around....lol the neon and the ms3 are torque limited in 1st and 2nd....with that being said the neon was pretty stock(air intake) and my ms3 bone stock......1st and 2nd was pretty close and 3rd gear i pulled slightly......about 4-5 feet and stayed there until about 75mph until it was unsafe to go faster......thats an honest account of two fairly even drivers.....


Awesome the first SRT-4 vs MS3 good run!! thx for the info!!!
what year SRT-4? 03-04

[Donas64]

Sp who says it's too soon now! THE MS3 has landed! The streets will never be safe again!

[Hughes412]

I figured that. The SRT-4 is a high 13's car, and the MS3 is supposedly a low 14 sec. car.


I think I saw you driving on the highway yesterday. Is your MS3 black?
I'm not understanding this statement. He said he pulled on the srt4. Yet the srt4 is faster.

Here's part of car and driver's review on the MSP3

It didn’t — even after painting the pavement Bridgestone black with more than 30 hole shots. Working the shifter feverishly — the low ratios in first and second mean two shifts happen before 60 mph — we finally scorched a 5.8-second 0-to-60 time and a 14.4-second quarter-mile at 99 mph. The 156-hp Mazda 3 s wagon hits 60 in 7.4 seconds. The last WRX sedan we tested ran six flat to 60 with a 14.6-second quarter-mile and all four wheels digging [“Cheap Speed, Round 23,” C/D, September 2005]. That’s a difference worth knowing. We also did more than the usual stops from 70 mph, getting 167 feet, and circled a dusty, less-than-perfect skidpad to produce a brag-worthy 0.87 g.

Here's what they said about the SRT4

The '03 car ran to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds and cleared the quarter in 14.1 seconds at 102 mph. The '04 model nipped 0.3 second off the 60-mph sprint (5.3 seconds) and ran the quarter in 13.9 at 103 mph. Braking from 70 mph (169 feet), roadholding (0.86 g), and top speed (153 mph) were all about the same for both models.


From what I've read the MSP3 isn't going to do the job. Look at the skid pad and top speeds. To me the SRT4 is still tops, they should have lightend up the weight on the 3 if they really wanted it to be king.

[vindication]

well guys, heres an honest answer to your question....just bought a ms3 and first thing i had to do is show the neighbor down the road i aint messing around....lol the neon and the ms3 are torque limited in 1st and 2nd....with that being said the neon was pretty stock(air intake) and my ms3 bone stock......1st and 2nd was pretty close and 3rd gear i pulled slightly......about 4-5 feet and stayed there until about 75mph until it was unsafe to go faster......thats an honest account of two fairly even drivers.....
hey, are you on titantalkk forums? I go there some times(same username as here) cause my dad has a Titan. Great f'n trucks. I cant imagine it with a supercharger like you have. Must be nuts!
Also, you raced on your brand new MS3? No break in period of at least 1k miles and to be race sure about 1.5k miles?

[got_titan]

yes, that was me in knoxville........im a firm believer in break the car in like your going to drive it........did the same with the titan and shes puttin down 425 rwhp with the charger. im am a member of titantalk...same name there..the neon was an 03......you guys can rest assured im telling you the truth. im a very respected member over at titantalk and will surely prove myself here.....

[Donas64]

I'm not understanding this statement. He said he pulled on the srt4. Yet the srt4 is faster.

Here's part of car and driver's review on the MSP3

It didn’t — even after painting the pavement Bridgestone black with more than 30 hole shots. Working the shifter feverishly — the low ratios in first and second mean two shifts happen before 60 mph — we finally scorched a 5.8-second 0-to-60 time and a 14.4-second quarter-mile at 99 mph. The 156-hp Mazda 3 s wagon hits 60 in 7.4 seconds. The last WRX sedan we tested ran six flat to 60 with a 14.6-second quarter-mile and all four wheels digging [“Cheap Speed, Round 23,” C/D, September 2005]. That’s a difference worth knowing. We also did more than the usual stops from 70 mph, getting 167 feet, and circled a dusty, less-than-perfect skidpad to produce a brag-worthy 0.87 g.

Here's what they said about the SRT4

The '03 car ran to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds and cleared the quarter in 14.1 seconds at 102 mph. The '04 model nipped 0.3 second off the 60-mph sprint (5.3 seconds) and ran the quarter in 13.9 at 103 mph. Braking from 70 mph (169 feet), roadholding (0.86 g), and top speed (153 mph) were all about the same for both models.



From what I've read the MSP3 isn't going to do the job. Look at the skid pad and top speeds. To me the SRT4 is still tops, they should have lightend up the weight on the 3 if they really wanted it to be king.

Thats what I've been thinking. It seems that while the MS3 is leaps and bounds above the SRT-4 quality wise, the SRT-4 seems like it's still got bragging rights down the strip.

[Hughes412]

yes, that was me in knoxville........im a firm believer in break the car in like your going to drive it........did the same with the titan and shes puttin down 425 rwhp with the charger. im am a member of titantalk...same name there..the neon was an 03......you guys can rest assured im telling you the truth. im a very respected member over at titantalk and will surely prove myself here.....


Oh well if they believe you then I guess I have too!(ughdance)

[evilmonkeyMSP]

no need to be a schmuck

[Hughes412]

LOL I'm just playing. I believe you. I can see you pulling on him if you got the launch. But facts are facts. The ms3 is just heavy and the ms3 is only putting out about 20whp more than the SRT4. So the weight kills the power.
The 03 is just slower then the 04 so that also has a lot to do with it.

[Hughes412]

no need to be a schmuck
lol I really was just playing. I was going to post right after that one but then I had to answer the phone.

[shane02pro5]

There is alot of varied opinions on breaking in a new engine. Getting rings seated properly blah blah blah. I agree with running it hard from the start allow your rings to seat properly without tearing up the cylinder walls gradually getting seated.

With a brand new MS3 how do you guys think those 150 miles were put on the car from the dealer before he bought it. I'm sure it wasn't something you would want more details on.
(drive2)






yes, that was me in knoxville........im a firm believer in break the car in like your going to drive it........did the same with the titan and shes puttin down 425 rwhp with the charger. im am a member of titantalk...same name there..the neon was an 03......you guys can rest assured im telling you the truth. im a very respected member over at titantalk and will surely prove myself here.....

[got_titan]

i bought the car straight off the truck from japan...lol it had 2 miles on it....from dealer prep....

[evilmonkeyMSP]

lol i was hoping...

lol I really was just playing. I was going to post right after that one but then I had to answer the phone.

[Hughes412]

i bought the car straight off the truck from japan...lol it had 2 miles on it....from dealer prep....


Nice truck by the way.

[shane02pro5]

Oops, sorry! Thought I read something about 150 miles on it.


i bought the car straight off the truck from japan...lol it had 2 miles on it....from dealer prep....

[We Are Ninja]

Thats what I've been thinking. It seems that while the MS3 is leaps and bounds above the SRT-4 quality wise, the SRT-4 seems like it's still got bragging rights down the strip.

I'd hypothesize the same thing, but the MS3 looks to be able to do SOOOOO much more than be some knuckle-dragging drag-racer.

Drag racing is t3h sux and requires zero actual driving skill. Even in NASCAR, they turn left on occasion...

[Knox Joe]

I'm not understanding this statement. He said he pulled on the srt4. Yet the srt4 is faster.

Well when it is that close in numbers, the race is going to be neck and neck, just like he said, and it comes down to driver skill.

Then you reinforce my point by posting the actual test numbers to back me up?

Okay so this one race with two different drivers the MS3 wins, but what about him driving the SRT-4, maybe he would have pulled on him in that car.

What here don't you understand?

[Hughes412]

Well when it is that close in numbers, the race is going to be neck and neck, just like he said, and it comes down to driver skill.

Then you reinforce my point by posting the actual test numbers to back me up?

Okay so this one race with two different drivers the MS3 wins, but what about him driving the SRT-4, maybe he would have pulled on him in that car.

What here don't you understand?
That's the part. You didn't say that before. But I agree with you now.

[got_titan]

the srt4 is faster on paper..........thats it.......paper

[Hughes412]

I'd hypothesize the same thing, but the MS3 looks to be able to do SOOOOO much more than be some knuckle-dragging drag-racer.

Drag racing is t3h sux and requires zero actual driving skill. Even in NASCAR, they turn left on occasion...

Drag racing isn't as easy as you think. And if you look at the numbers of the srt4 and the ms3 the srt4 and slightly better skid pad numbers. So even in auto cross the ms3 would lose. Expecally with the extra weight.

[Hughes412]

the srt4 is faster on paper..........thats it.......paper


Those numbers had to of come from somewhere!

[got_titan]

motortrend put down a 14.1 @99 mph in the ms3 in thier latest review.....thier so close......

[shane02pro5]

How many of these are going to be realistically running around in stock form SRT or MS3 wanting to race each other in the first place. I think it's more (for me anyway driving a 100hp P5 transformed into 240+ P5-T) having a better out of the box vehicle platform to build on. Suspension and a few performance mods and done.

[Hughes412]

That's just it. With as much hp as the ms3 has it would stomp the srt. But the weight is killing it. Even with the torq reducer it still isn't that much. There is a thread on here saying the ms3 is only putting down like 215 whp and 245 wtq. So that car lost almost 50whp! then look at the SRT4 is putting down 200+whp and is a lot lighter and cost less.

Now don't get me wrong. The MS3 is a very nice car. But for the 24+k that my dealer is asking for theirs, and with the 264hp and with the new techno stuff on it. The MS3 should beable to whip the shit out of the srt4! There should be no contest. But like all of Mazdas cars it leaves you wanting more.

[got_titan]

i give up......

[shane02pro5]

That dyno was not accurate due to TMIC and fan blowing to the front of the car with the hood opened. I still can't see that knocking down 50hp.

Start a fund to get one of these guys to a dyno with proper fan set-up!!

[Donas64]

To tell you the truth, I kinda like knuckle dragging drag racers, and it's not like the SRT-4 handles like an SUV or anything. There have been times I wanted to blow up my protege cuz of it's lack of power. Sometimes straight line power can be a lot more fun than carving corners. It just depends what kind of mood you're in I guess.

[We Are Ninja]

My earlier post came out a little wrong; I didn't really mean to diss drag-racers, and I'm not saying it's easy, but accelerating in a straight line is hella less challenging then laying down power out of a corner while maintaining your line while rubbing door handles, or even navigating a set of cones...

I just think Dodge's aim was straight-line speed, Mazda's is the whole zoom-zoom twistiness thing.

[Hughes412]

I just think Dodge's aim was straight-line speed, Mazda's is the whole zoom-zoom twistiness thing.
TRUE 100%!

[Donas64]

That's just it. With as much hp as the ms3 has it would stomp the srt. But the weight is killing it. Even with the torq reducer it still isn't that much. There is a thread on here saying the ms3 is only putting down like 215 whp and 245 wtq. So that car lost almost 50whp! then look at the SRT4 is putting down 200+whp and is a lot lighter and cost less.

Now don't get me wrong. The MS3 is a very nice car. But for the 24+k that my dealer is asking for theirs, and with the 264hp and with the new techno stuff on it. The MS3 should beable to whip the shit out of the srt4! There should be no contest. But like all of Mazdas cars it leaves you wanting more.

That dyno was inaccurate for sure. The TMIC was not getting good airflow. But like you said, the MS3 should wipe the floor with the SRT4 easily. The only thing the MS3 leaves me wanting in is it's styling.

[Donas64]

My earlier post came out a little wrong; I didn't really mean to diss drag-racers, and I'm not saying it's easy, but accelerating in a straight line is hella less challenging then laying down power out of a corner while maintaining your line while rubbing door handles, or even navigating a set of cones...

I just think Dodge's aim was straight-line speed, Mazda's is the whole zoom-zoom twistiness thing.

Thats true, but I think they took a step back in hte handling department with the MS3 over the MSP. I could not be helped I guess as the MS3 is about 10 times better built than the MSP.

[We Are Ninja]

Yeah, my MSP is a rattle trap (but I STILL love her to death); It was really unnerving when I first got it. After a while, you don't even notice it. Or ride the freeway alot so the road noise drowns it out...

I read that the Dodge's interior was so bland and cheap that it could suck your soul out of your body.

The MS3's interior, on the other hand, comes highly praised in all reviews that I've read. Plus the interior looks sooooo inviting and well-styled.

[Donas64]

Yeah, my MSP is a rattle trap (but I STILL love her to death); It was really unnerving when I first got it. After a while, you don't even notice it. Or ride the freeway alot so the road noise drowns it out...

I read that the Dodge's interior was so bland and cheap that it could suck your soul out of your body.

The MS3's interior, on the other hand, comes highly praised in all reviews that I've read. Plus the interior looks sooooo inviting and well-styled.

The SRT-4 interior was a crime against the automotive masses. In fact, it was bad enough for me not to consider one, but gosh I had an obsession with that car. I thought it looked great, I thought it was fast as heck, and I could even overlook the mediocre handling, but the interior was just...UGH!!!

I'd take the MS3 over the SRT 4 in a heart beat. But if you look at all the magazines that have the MS3 on there cover, the main thing touted is its: 155 MPH TOP SPEED!!!, LOOK HOW FAST IT IS!!!!, FASTEST CAR FOR THE MONEY!!!!

The MS3 apart from it's nice interior and decent handling is being touted as a FAST FAST cheap CAR!

Same way the SRT 4 was touted as a FAST FAST cheap CAR!

I'd be a little disappointed if my and SRT4 could show it's tail lights to my brand spankin new MS3. It's not a dealbreaker but it would irk me a little.

[sephiroth]

Yeah, my MSP is a rattle trap (but I STILL love her to death); It was really unnerving when I first got it. After a while, you don't even notice it. Or ride the freeway alot so the road noise drowns it out...

I read that the Dodge's interior was so bland and cheap that it could suck your soul out of your body.

The MS3's interior, on the other hand, comes highly praised in all reviews that I've read. Plus the interior looks sooooo inviting and well-styled.
afaik, the only cosmetic differences between a Neon SE and a SRT-4, are silver trim, the door handels, metal pedals, seats that were model'ed after the ones in the viper and a boost gauge in the instrument cluster. So you're basicaly paying for the interior of a $13000 car. There's a whole bunch of other small things that are different too, like a tachometer, improved interior lighting ect that are avaliable in the other trim models as well, so I didn't mention them.

[Hughes412]

The SRT-4 interior was a crime against the automotive masses. In fact, it was bad enough for me not to consider one, but gosh I had an obsession with that car. I thought it looked great, I thought it was fast as heck, and I could even overlook the mediocre handling, but the interior was just...UGH!!!

I'd take the MS3 over the SRT 4 in a heart beat. But if you look at all the magazines that have the MS3 on there cover, the main thing touted is its: 155 MPH TOP SPEED!!!, LOOK HOW FAST IT IS!!!!, FASTEST CAR FOR THE MONEY!!!!

The MS3 apart from it's nice interior and decent handling is being touted as a FAST FAST cheap CAR!

Same way the SRT 4 was touted as a FAST FAST cheap CAR!

I'd be a little disappointed if my and SRT4 could show it's tail lights to my brand spankin new MS3. It's not a dealbreaker but it would irk me a little.
mediocre handling! The 04 SRT4 out does the ms3 in handleing. It pulls more gs and sustains them. The interior was bad, but lets be honest here, you didn't my it nor do you want one for the interior. You want it so you can kick some ass. And saying the dyno was inaccurate is just an excuse. For the money the car SHOULD not have to have any excuses.

[Rotary_Powered]

MSP still ownz all on the skid pad! (FWD atleast, and many RWD even)

[We Are Ninja]

mediocre handling! The 04 SRT4 out does the ms3 in handleing. It pulls more gs and sustains them...
Again, I've never driven either car, but there was an SRT4 owner on the boards (I don't remember his name...) who said the SRT4 was great and retarded fast (<-oxymoron FTW!)(<-English geek FTW!), but it's handling left alot to be desired. Great numbers don't mean alot if they don't work together.

Are there any SRT4 owners here, or wanna chime in?

[nme1337]

Sorry guys but you are being pretty delusional. I like the ms3 alot and think its an awesome car. but facts are facts.

MS3: 216 hp 245tq to the wheels
SRT-4: 215hp(03) 230hp(04-05) 245-250tq to the wheels.

MS3: nearly 3200lbs
SRT-4: nearly 2900 lbs

MS3: 5.8-5.9 0-60
SRT-4: 5.3-5.6 0-60

MS3: 14.1-14.4 1/4
SRT-4: 13.8-14.1 1/4 (still a drivers race)

handling and braking is basically the same (both being average) So unless you are talking about fast interiors. I dont see how the MS3 has any chance of de throning the srt-4

[Rotary_Powered]

In the orignal SRT-4 the handling wasn't that great, but then dodge added an LSD and even came out with the ACR version which had even better handling, neither the SRT-4 or the MS3 match the MSP in the handling department, but I suspect that it's because it's really hard to maintain good balance in such powerful FWD cars. Cheapest speed is still the SRT-4, though the MS3 is really,really close (drivers race) and gives more comfort. Take that how you will, in terms of speed: 1)SRT-4 Neon 2)MS3 Handling: 1)MSP 2)Integra Type-R (for FWD cars)

[We Are Ninja]

In the orignal SRT-4 the handling wasn't that great, but then dodge added an LSD and even came out with the ACR version which had even better handling...

I had forgotten the intial cars didn't have an LSD...

[arkitek]

http://cars.ign.com/articles/730/730560p2.html

We'll start off by saying that the only other FF car we've driven at Laguna Seca was the Dodge (http://cars.ign.com/articles/730/730560p2.html#) SRT-4 ACR. That car had a nice amount of power, but with all that power being sent the front wheels, we had a hell of a time trying to get the Neon to turn where we wanted it to. Thankfully, the MazdaSpeed3 isn't plagued by copious amounts of torque-induced understeer. Thanks to the sticky tires (http://cars.ign.com/articles/730/730560p2.html#), torque reduction system and LSD all working together, this hot hatch just corners as if it's on rails.

The steering weight of the MazdaSpeed3 is near-perfect, and the car feels pretty good when the steering is on-center, too. It is incredibly easy to throw this thing around the corners -- this car just doesn't want to break its stranglehold on the tarmac. Sure, we can get the front tires to squeal a bit when accelerating out of some of Laguna Seca's twistier bits, but overall the MazdaSpeed3 feels surprisingly neutral at the limit -- a rarity for a front-drive car.

[Rotary_Powered]

We should be comparing to the next SRT-4 not the old one, granted I know why the comparison exsist, the SRT-4 is/was a great value. However reality is that it's Protege vs Neon and 3 vs Caliber.

[MP3Architect]

We should be comparing to the next SRT-4 not the old one, granted I know why the comparison exsist, the SRT-4 is/was a great value. However reality is that it's Protege vs Neon and 3 vs Caliber.
werd

[Simpletons101]

I was reading through the SRT-4 forum about the MS3 and they are pretty nuts over there (I would suggest taking a look... ), and how i found this thread was, they had it posted over there, weird....

Anyways, stock, it seems like the SRT-4 compared to the MS3 is a very hefty competitor.... but i think overall, the MS3 is a pretty badass car, which could have some reall massive potential, Look at all you MS Protege owners with mods!


-Dan

[Kansei]

Hello Neon forum visitors!

(hi)

[Hughes412]

http://cars.ign.com/articles/730/730560p2.html

We'll start off by saying that the only other FF car we've driven at Laguna Seca was the Dodge (http://cars.ign.com/articles/730/730560p2.html#) SRT-4 ACR. That car had a nice amount of power, but with all that power being sent the front wheels, we had a hell of a time trying to get the Neon to turn where we wanted it to. Thankfully, the MazdaSpeed3 isn't plagued by copious amounts of torque-induced understeer. Thanks to the sticky tires (http://cars.ign.com/articles/730/730560p2.html#), torque reduction system and LSD all working together, this hot hatch just corners as if it's on rails.

The steering weight of the MazdaSpeed3 is near-perfect, and the car feels pretty good when the steering is on-center, too. It is incredibly easy to throw this thing around the corners -- this car just doesn't want to break its stranglehold on the tarmac. Sure, we can get the front tires to squeal a bit when accelerating out of some of Laguna Seca's twistier bits, but overall the MazdaSpeed3 feels surprisingly neutral at the limit -- a rarity for a front-drive car.
I think this is just another (It's just a neon) Neon hater. He says the SRT had problems turning, but if you look at the numbers they both had very simular numbers with the SRT4 actually betting the MazdaSpeed3. So I can safely say this guys statement is wrong.

[Donas64]

I was reading through the SRT-4 forum about the MS3 and they are pretty nuts over there (I would suggest taking a look... ), and how i found this thread was, they had it posted over there, weird....

Anyways, stock, it seems like the SRT-4 compared to the MS3 is a very hefty competitor.... but i think overall, the MS3 is a pretty badass car, which could have some reall massive potential, Look at all you MS Protege owners with mods!


-Dan


Sweet! My thread made it to another forum. Cross link?

[Hughes412]

We should be comparing to the next SRT-4 not the old one, granted I know why the comparison exsist, the SRT-4 is/was a great value. However reality is that it's Protege vs Neon and 3 vs Caliber.
I don't think that the Caliber will be a good comparison. The Caliber is more of a SUV want-to-be and the MS3 is a sport compact. The suspension set up is going to be totally different. Yea the SRT version will have 300hp but that will be for straight line running.

[Kansei]

I think this is just another (It's just a neon) Neon hater. He says the SRT had problems turning, but if you look at the numbers they both had very simular numbers with the SRT4 actually betting the MazdaSpeed3. So I can safely say this guys statement is wrong.

numbers don't tell everything. Who cares if the SRT-4 posts a better skidpad number than the MS3.. mazda is much about balanced handling. The Protege didn't have the best handling numbers in every single category and yet was able to dethrone the Integra Type-R as the best handling FWD car evAr.

Hughes have you checked out a caliber in person? They are much less SUV-like than the pictures suggest. They are Pontiac Vibe-esque. So yeah, the Caliber SRT-4 <--> MS3 comparison is much like a Vibe <--> Protege5 comparison, which I'd say is pretty fair. The Caliber is just a bit less low-slung, with a higher beltline and lots of headroom.

[Donas64]

We should be comparing to the next SRT-4 not the old one, granted I know why the comparison exsist, the SRT-4 is/was a great value. However reality is that it's Protege vs Neon and 3 vs Caliber.

Look man, I'm sure everyone understands that and when the caliber SRT4 is released, I'm sure we will revisit the issue. But unless I'm mistaken, you can't walk onto a dodge dealer lot and buy an SRT4 Caliber so the closest thing we have in comparison powerwise and drivetrain wise is the Neon SRT4. Stop raining on the parade.

[We Are Ninja]

...Hughes have you checked out a caliber in person? They are much less SUV-like than the pictures suggest. They are Pontiac Vibe-esque...
True enough, but they aren't very sport-compact-y either. The new SRT-4, thus far, is an odd little bastard in it's hybrid crossover-ness.

Oh, and Dodge wants you to know that it's not cute.

[Donas64]

Oh, and Dodge wants you to know that it's not cute.

Mission accomplised on that one.

[Rennoc]

hmmmm....... I have info to contribute but Im somewhat afraid.... at around 1 today i test drove the ms3 today and i have a son with an srt4(04) that i have driven many many times. I have to say that these cars are different. While the srt4 may have good handling, its not as good as the ms3 IMO because its more difficult to do in the srt4. throwing the ms3 around in the corners almost seems like second nature. and yes i did really really drive it because the dealer is a family friend. the srt4 does win in acceleration but dont get my wrong any small slip going through the gears and the ms3 will win in a race. This car is fast no doubts about and the interior is gorgeous. Im proud to say that ill be purchasing one over an srt4 which has been the debate ive been going through in my head for quite some time... Dont shoot the messanger

[hellcat]

hmmmm....... I have info to contribute but Im somewhat afraid.... at around 1 today i test drove the ms3 today and i have a son with an srt4(04) that i have driven many many times. I have to say that these cars are different. While the srt4 may have good handling, its not as good as the ms3 IMO because its more difficult to do in the srt4. throwing the ms3 around in the corners almost seems like second nature. and yes i did really really drive it because the dealer is a family friend. the srt4 does win in acceleration but dont get my wrong any small slip going through the gears and the ms3 will win in a race. This car is fast no doubts about and the interior is gorgeous. Im proud to say that ill be purchasing one over an srt4 which has been the debate ive been going through in my head for quite some time... Dont shoot the messanger

I think it would be a drivers race if you raced one against the other. In other words my friend, your butt dyno could be off either way. We won't know until we get some fair test comparison, ie, dyno's under same conditions or 1/4 times and same track, same conditions.

[Donas64]

hmmmm....... I have info to contribute but Im somewhat afraid.... at around 1 today i test drove the ms3 today and i have a son with an srt4(04) that i have driven many many times. I have to say that these cars are different. While the srt4 may have good handling, its not as good as the ms3 IMO because its more difficult to do in the srt4. throwing the ms3 around in the corners almost seems like second nature. and yes i did really really drive it because the dealer is a family friend. the srt4 does win in acceleration but dont get my wrong any small slip going through the gears and the ms3 will win in a race. This car is fast no doubts about and the interior is gorgeous. Im proud to say that ill be purchasing one over an srt4 which has been the debate ive been going through in my head for quite some time... Dont shoot the messanger

Good Observations. I don't doubt the MS3 handles better but I'm gunna say something thats gunna get me flamed: I think the SRT 4 is the better looking car...THERE, I said it! Maybe its the menacing FMIC or the Bazooka tailpipes. It just looks like it means business. I know the MS3 is more understated, mature and stealthy but even in overall shape for me the SRT4 is more pleasing to the eye. Now as for interiors, its a TKO agains the NEON. The MS3's interior just looks so much better than anything else in it's class.

[Simpletons101]

Sweet! My thread made it to another forum. Cross link?

Done and Done....

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298655


More specific...
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298655&page=10

[Donas64]

Done and Done....

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298655


More specific...
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298655&page=10

thanks

[Hughes412]

numbers don't tell everything. Who cares if the SRT-4 posts a better skidpad number than the MS3.. mazda is much about balanced handling. The Protege didn't have the best handling numbers in every single category and yet was able to dethrone the Integra Type-R as the best handling FWD car evAr.

Hughes have you checked out a caliber in person? They are much less SUV-like than the pictures suggest. They are Pontiac Vibe-esque. So yeah, the Caliber SRT-4 <--> MS3 comparison is much like a Vibe <--> Protege5 comparison, which I'd say is pretty fair. The Caliber is just a bit less low-slung, with a higher beltline and lots of headroom.
I checked out the caliber. I was actually thinking of trading in the pro for a magnum. The Caliber is more SUV than a car. It's got a of ground clearance and the overall height is just to tall for me. I wouldn't mind getting the SRT if it came with AWD, but they said that wont happen.

[Kansei]

Magnum SRT-8 has AWD.. :) I would loooooooooove to have one of those.. only if I could afford it and a miata. Saw a Magnum SRT-8 at the dealership for 38k *yikes*. Really, really nice cars though. I think they have an awesome look to them, even in just the R/T trim.

[Hughes412]

LMAO
They punked yaw,


They said, and I QUOTE!

The MS3 is still just a mazda!

[Hughes412]

Magnum SRT-8 has AWD.. :) I would loooooooooove to have one of those.. only if I could afford it and a miata. Saw a Magnum SRT-8 at the dealership for 38k *yikes*. Really, really nice cars though. I think they have an awesome look to them, even in just the R/T trim.


YES the R/T in plan form is a bad ass. I test drove one and even with the auto stic I got several 2nd gear scratches.

[Kansei]

LMAO
They punked yaw,


They said, and I QUOTE!

The MS3 is still just a mazda!

Did they forget that an SRT-4 is just a Neon, and that a neon consistently ranked near or in last place vs. it's economy car competition, including Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Hyundai, and Kia? (poke)

[hellcat]

They should watch that video of how the dyno was done too! The fan wasn't anywhere near the intercooler. I am willing to bet that the neons dyno with fans in front! This will acount for a few hp im sure. I like SRT-4's and I like the Speed3. Just depends on what your tastes are. The speed 3 has more goodies from the factory, the SRT-4 has a bigger aftermarket right now.

[Elderain]

Hello Neon forum visitors!

(hi)

ex MSP owner :p now SRT-4 owner. I think some of the questions the original poster asked are :bs:. How can you ask questions based soley on opinion, and expect a "right" answer? You can't. While I was thinking about getting on the waiting list for an MS3, I decided not to, and ended up with an SRT-4. I think the MS3 is pretty badass, however it's also much newer and had the liberty of taking things based on previous cars (whether their own, or other brands) and improving them, thats how the industry works.

Each in there own are badass cars, and I think the "throne" is all personal preference, with exceptoion of performance (I think the SRT-4 wins here). and handling (if it handles like the MSP, the MS3 will win here).

Everyone always busts on the SRT-4 not having windows, well the MSP didnt have cruise control or a sunroof so ... ;) They are both kick ass cars ... thats coming from someone thats been on both sides of the fence. People say the SRT-4 has a cheap interior, and I thought the same until I owned one, and its grown on me alot. The seats are beyond awesome, and everything in the vehicle fits perfect for placement, form and function. It's no Ferrari remember... but I do think the MS3 is nicer, however it also costs what... 3k more then the SRT-4 did on MSRP? (Pretty sure the MSRP was 20,500 on the SRT-4).

The problem with asking stuff like this on a brand specific board, is that your all in favor of the mazda just because thats what kinda board this is :) If you ask this on a dodge board, everyone will hate it. Thats just how it works.

[Rotary_Powered]

Back three years ago when SCC raced the SRT-4 Neon and the MSP up and down some twisties, it took the SRT-4 about 3 miles to pull a lead despite the difference in HP. That mountain attacked served as the tie breaker they really did love both cars equally, and pit them against each other for a winner. What the MSP lacks in raw POWER it makes up in balance. Just as no FWD car is faster than the SRT-4, no FWD car to date handles better than the MSP. Both cars are still at the top of their perspective fields.

the MS3 is pretty damn close the SRT-4's speed. Drivers race in most cases, Don't get me wrong, I actually like the original SRT-4 alot! It's a great car! However no offense to anyone, but MOST of the SRT-4 owners I've met or seen online come off as arrogent, not all, but most. Though I have met a couple of good guys who know there stuff and help other enthusiests.

As for the dyno in Automobile mag, I do hope a reputable magazine does a dyno soon.

[Donas64]

ex MSP owner :p now SRT-4 owner. I think some of the questions the original poster asked are :bs:. How can you ask questions based soley on opinion, and expect a "right" answer? You can't. While I was thinking about getting on the waiting list for an MS3, I decided not to, and ended up with an SRT-4. I think the MS3 is pretty badass, however it's also much newer and had the liberty of taking things based on previous cars (whether their own, or other brands) and improving them, thats how the industry works.

Each in there own are badass cars, and I think the "throne" is all personal preference, with exceptoion of performance (I think the SRT-4 wins here). and handling (if it handles like the MSP, the MS3 will win here).

Everyone always busts on the SRT-4 not having windows, well the MSP didnt have cruise control or a sunroof so ... ;) They are both kick ass cars ... thats coming from someone thats been on both sides of the fence. People say the SRT-4 has a cheap interior, and I thought the same until I owned one, and its grown on me alot. The seats are beyond awesome, and everything in the vehicle fits perfect for placement, form and function. It's no Ferrari remember... but I do think the MS3 is nicer, however it also costs what... 3k more then the SRT-4 did on MSRP? (Pretty sure the MSRP was 20,500 on the SRT-4).

The problem with asking stuff like this on a brand specific board, is that your all in favor of the mazda just because thats what kinda board this is :) If you ask this on a dodge board, everyone will hate it. Thats just how it works.

I gotta defend myself here.

How can questions be BS?

I'm asking for opinions. Nothing more nothing less. I'm not asking for and end all be all definitive conclusion. Just raising some questions that lead to discussion. People need to chill out and not take stuff so seriously. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a huge SRT4 fan and I personally don't really care for the looks of the MS3. But overall I think the MS3 is the better car. Of course the answers will be biased towards the MS3 on this board but that does not mean we can't have the conversation. And I've actually noticed a fair amount of support for the Neon SRT4 in this thread unlike the SRTForums where they just TRASH the MS3 based on a bogus dyno run and they all think that their Stage 2 Neons can outrun a Bugatti Veyron and outhandle an Enzo.(ughdance)

[sephiroth]

Just as no FWD car is faster than the SRT-4, no FWD car to date handles better than the MSP. Both cars are still at the top of their perspective fields.


I wouldn't go that far, the MSP is a very good handling car.. but there are quiet a few cars that handle better (the 1st gen protege's for example.)

[vindication]

I wouldn't go that far, the MSP is a very good handling car.. but there are quiet a few cars that handle better (the 1st gen protege's for example.)
no

[Kansei]

I wouldn't go that far, the MSP is a very good handling car.. but there are quiet a few cars that handle better (the 1st gen protege's for example.)

absolutely not.

[Rotary_Powered]

Nope nothing touches the MSP in that respect. No FWD has yet to surpass it in handling.

[Hughes412]

Fuck the MSP! This might be the Jim Beam talking, but goddam the msp is a slow POS! I know this is a mazda forum but goddamn lets be honest. Yea it handles ok but what good is that if you can't pass people on the strieghts? Even then it's not that good. How many NCCA champs has been won in an MSP? The radio sucks (breaks all the time) the LSD sucks the pistons suck the rods suck, the suspintion sucks (clunk). Hell the list goes on. The only thing good about the car was you could get it cheap.

Now Mazda has this MS3 that has 260+hp yet it limits the torq and hp in first and second gear and that makes it as slow as the 04 SRT4. And they want to charge 24k!? Give me a fucking break! Thats why they don't out sell honda. People don't by cars to be balanced, they want speed! Fuck a turn. I don't car if I have to slow down for a turn as long as I can pass that bitch when I come out. And that the SRT4 does.

OK now I'm done.! Some one tell Mazda to start over and do it right this time.(poke)

[Kansei]

oh wah it clunked.. that's all you can come up with for the suspension lol. I just fixed my clunk with the AXR clunk fix bracket tonight :D. People who buy Mazdas DO want a car that is balanced.. that's what Mazda is about. I don't think Mazda should EVER become more about just all out speed than about balanced performance.. in my eyes the MS3 really strays pretty damn far from typical Mazda, and that scares me.. it may bring people in but it'll dilute the brand image. If you want your straight line power, get a freakin SRT4 then.. there's the one and only thing they are good for. And yes, they're damn good for that, especially for the price. Sorry Mazda didn't include forged rods and pistons like the SRT4 has.. if they had cheaped out on the sound system, styling, and suspension, they EASILY could have... but that wasn't the point of the car.. it was meant to bea good all around car for a pretty cheap price.

[Falango]

So why exactly do you own a Protege if they just completely suck?

And what the hell is suspintion?? The reason why Mazda limits the torque in 1st and 2nd is so that you don't blow the crap out of the motor, it's called being smart!

I'd also much rather outhandle a car in turns tha outmuscle in on a straight. It's much more fun beating the crap out of a car in the twisties when the competition has the upperhand on power.

[sephiroth]

absolutely not.
the 1st gen is a 100% better car than the 3rd gen's in respect to handling..
first gen is a more solid, better enginered, better handling, and makes better power(vs 3rd gen protege), and has more potential(ditto). Go talk to someone that mod's 1st gen's and 3rd gen's

[InFlames]

Being an ex-srt4 owner I will reiterate that the powerplant where its at with the neon. The potential is unlike anything else on the market for the price. It doesnt take much more the 800+ to get 300+ out of the stock turbo. The the mopar upgrades and cheap aftermarket parts make it very tuner friendly, quite frankly its scary driving a fwd car with that much tq. As far as build quality this has been said time and time again, the srt just doesnt equate to what the mazda or any other cars in its price range has to offer. Then again it is all relative, most of the good stuff is in the powerplant.

With that said I really like the styling of the ms3, although I do wish it was in sedan form. none the less the 2.3 does have some potential to put down some nice numbers. With reservation having not actually drivin the ms3 I would go as far as to say that the ms3 would take the "throne" as the sport compact in its price range. I would gladly take the ms3 over the srt -4 as an overall comparison.

[InFlames]

So why exactly do you own a Protege if they just completely suck?

And what the hell is suspintion?? The reason why Mazda limits the torque in 1st and 2nd is so that you don't blow the crap out of the motor, it's called being smart!

I'd also much rather outhandle a car in turns tha outmuscle in on a straight. It's much more fun beating the crap out of a car in the twisties when the competition has the upperhand on power.

I don't believe he was going as far as to say that protege sucks. His point was rather to point out it was meant to be relatively cheap and fun to drive. you agree right? (thumb) And im also sure that most will agree that the pro engine isnt meant to handle mass amounts of power.

[Rotary_Powered]

Fuck the MSP! This might be the Jim Beam talking, but goddam the msp is a slow POS! I know this is a mazda forum but goddamn lets be honest. Yea it handles ok but what good is that if you can't pass people on the strieghts? Even then it's not that good. How many NCCA champs has been won in an MSP? The radio sucks (breaks all the time) the LSD sucks the pistons suck the rods suck, the suspintion sucks (clunk). Hell the list goes on. The only thing good about the car was you could get it cheap.

Now Mazda has this MS3 that has 260+hp yet it limits the torq and hp in first and second gear and that makes it as slow as the 04 SRT4. And they want to charge 24k!? Give me a fucking break! Thats why they don't out sell honda. People don't by cars to be balanced, they want speed! Fuck a turn. I don't car if I have to slow down for a turn as long as I can pass that bitch when I come out. And that the SRT4 does.

OK now I'm done.! Some one tell Mazda to start over and do it right this time.(poke)
:bs: I don't care just for straightline speed, it is fun. But I'd rather take a corner at .88g's. Take two of the same car say an s2000 throw $2000, in suspension in one and $2000 in drivetrain in the other guess which will be likely to come on top at a track? It handles okay is a major understatment. I like passing people in a corner not a straight(glare).

[kamon8404]

Fuck the MSP! This might be the Jim Beam talking, but goddam the msp is a slow POS! I know this is a mazda forum but goddamn lets be honest. Yea it handles ok but what good is that if you can't pass people on the strieghts? Even then it's not that good. How many NCCA champs has been won in an MSP? The radio sucks (breaks all the time) the LSD sucks the pistons suck the rods suck, the suspintion sucks (clunk). Hell the list goes on. The only thing good about the car was you could get it cheap.

Now Mazda has this MS3 that has 260+hp yet it limits the torq and hp in first and second gear and that makes it as slow as the 04 SRT4. And they want to charge 24k!? Give me a fucking break! Thats why they don't out sell honda. People don't by cars to be balanced, they want speed! Fuck a turn. I don't car if I have to slow down for a turn as long as I can pass that bitch when I come out. And that the SRT4 does.

OK now I'm done.! Some one tell Mazda to start over and do it right this time.(poke)

Well, I would say that in stock form the MSP is not that fast on a straight line, your correct. Then you have to look at those MSPs out there that pull on STIs, and RSXs, all the while using a stock block (i.e. JDM Sam, and Pirana). I would also venture to say sense they pull on these cars they would definately pull on an SRT4. About the clunk, I have almost 40K on my car, and I don't have the clunk. Plus you can get a fix for what? 130? Sure the stock radio sucks, I agree with that, but what stock radio doesn't? You can pick up a decent alpine for around 130 that is Ipod interface ready. So overall, I would have to say that the MSP is a great ALL AROUND car for the money. Yeah, your not running 12's out of the box, but neither does the SRT4. You might like the straight races more, but that is your opinion and thats cool, but you can't discredit what some have done with the stock block of the MSP. Plus you can't say that the MSP does not handle like a beast, clunk or not.

[avarela86]

I love our cars, handle great, make driving fun. Yes they have plenty of downfall but what can you expect out of such an old designed platform for an engine. They are well rounded cars and deserve their respect for what they are good for. I think that for the price range, yes the MS3 takes the thrown. All do to the fact of out of the box equipment. At the end of the day they are two different cars built with two completely different purposes.

[Kansei]

the 1st gen is a 100% better car than the 3rd gen's in respect to handling..
first gen is a more solid, better enginered, better handling, and makes better power(vs 3rd gen protege), and has more potential(ditto). Go talk to someone that mod's 1st gen's and 3rd gen's

Funny then how the 3rd gen outhandles the 1st gen. Don't get me wrong, I love the 1g and would love to own one (I've driven a friend's before) but the only thing the 1g has on the 3rd gen is that beautiful BP engine :)

[Hughes412]

So why exactly do you own a Protege if they just completely suck?

And what the hell is suspintion?? The reason why Mazda limits the torque in 1st and 2nd is so that you don't blow the crap out of the motor, it's called being smart!

I'd also much rather outhandle a car in turns tha outmuscle in on a straight. It's much more fun beating the crap out of a car in the twisties when the competition has the upperhand on power.
I miss spelled the word but you got what I was saying. I got it because it was new for 11k. The civic was 16 amd the mazda had more options then the rest. That and I didn't say the protege sucked, just the msp. The only reason the make the car was to move some inventory, they slap a cheap turbo and body kit on it and then sell them. That's why they only did so for what a yr and a half? The SRT, STI, EVO don't have to be limited. If mazda built the motor the right way they wouldn't have to worry about that.

These cars are still econo boxes with a turbo. If you want fast take the 26k or more and get a WRX.

[Hughes412]

Well, I would say that in stock form the MSP is not that fast on a straight line, your correct. Then you have to look at those MSPs out there that pull on STIs, and RSXs, all the while using a stock block (i.e. JDM Sam, and Pirana). I would also venture to say sense they pull on these cars they would definately pull on an SRT4. About the clunk, I have almost 40K on my car, and I don't have the clunk. Plus you can get a fix for what? 130? Sure the stock radio sucks, I agree with that, but what stock radio doesn't? You can pick up a decent alpine for around 130 that is Ipod interface ready. So overall, I would have to say that the MSP is a great ALL AROUND car for the money. Yeah, your not running 12's out of the box, but neither does the SRT4. You might like the straight races more, but that is your opinion and thats cool, but you can't discredit what some have done with the stock block of the MSP. Plus you can't say that the MSP does not handle like a beast, clunk or not.
LOL I like your post. Cool headed. The only thing that I have to say about JDM and the rest of them is they had to sink SOOO much money into the car to be fast. You can put the same about in other cars and clean house. Other then that, yea if you have the money you can make it fast. But with the right amount of money you can make anything fast.

[Hughes412]

I don't believe he was going as far as to say that protege sucks. His point was rather to point out it was meant to be relatively cheap and fun to drive. you agree right? (thumb) And im also sure that most will agree that the pro engine isnt meant to handle mass amounts of power.
You are 100% right, I had a few at the game last night. It didn't come out right.

[Kansei]

These cars are still econo boxes with a turbo. If you want fast take the 26k or more and get a WRX.

The WRX and STi are econoboxes with a turbo too :P

granted the STi is a highly modified econobox, as is the evo, neon SRT-4, et al. I don't see anything wrong with putting a turbo on an econobox :)

[Rotary_Powered]

I thought, they cancelled the MSP because Mazda had to introduce the 3, and the MSP was technically just the first MS experient. right?

[Kansei]

I thought, they cancelled the MSP because Mazda had to introduce the 3, and the MSP was technically just the first MS experient. right?

They knew it was just going to be a 1-year affair.. it was just a way to get some remaining protege parts put into cars to be sold. That and it was just the first experiment, so if it went totally awry it would only be a problem with a few thousand cars :P

[Donas64]

Fuck the MSP! This might be the Jim Beam talking, but goddam the msp is a slow POS! I know this is a mazda forum but goddamn lets be honest. Yea it handles ok but what good is that if you can't pass people on the strieghts? Even then it's not that good. How many NCCA champs has been won in an MSP? The radio sucks (breaks all the time) the LSD sucks the pistons suck the rods suck, the suspintion sucks (clunk). Hell the list goes on. The only thing good about the car was you could get it cheap.

Now Mazda has this MS3 that has 260+hp yet it limits the torq and hp in first and second gear and that makes it as slow as the 04 SRT4. And they want to charge 24k!? Give me a fucking break! Thats why they don't out sell honda. People don't by cars to be balanced, they want speed! Fuck a turn. I don't car if I have to slow down for a turn as long as I can pass that bitch when I come out. And that the SRT4 does.

OK now I'm done.! Some one tell Mazda to start over and do it right this time.(poke)

While I wouldn't quite say the MSP sucks, I'm right there with you on straight line power.

I live in VA where there are so many great curvy roads to drive on (Blue Ridge PArkway FTW!!!!) But many MANY times I want to curse the WEAK motor in my protege when I need some thrust to pass slow moving traffic or an 18 wheeler and all I get is noise. You can have a balanced car that handles well and goes well also. As a total Package, I rather like the VW GTI. It gives up a lot of power to the MS3 but it's torque curve is broader and it can handle also.

So while I do think mazda does have a winner with the MS3, I think they took a huge step back styling wise and I think that it's a little silly that an 04 SRT4 can keep right up with it. And to top it all off, it can't claim to have the telepathic handling of the MSP.

The car just came out so only time will tell for sure but until then: I'm holding out for a Mazdaspeed RX-8: Good looks, slick handling, RWD and finally 300 HP or bust!

[Donas64]

Just so there is no confusion though There is hardly any car I would take in it's pricerange over an MS3.

[mspro19]

I just got my Speed3 bought it Sat. Oct. 21 with 5m on it right off the truck! and I hang out with 6 SRT-4's. Most of them are heavy modded out and can beat me. But as far as a stock for stock I eat it up. Don't get me wrong it's close but about a half a car to a car length...I'll try to get some video of us doing a pull if I can...

[JDM Sam]

Well, I would say that in stock form the MSP is not that fast on a straight line, your correct. Then you have to look at those MSPs out there that pull on STIs, and RSXs, all the while using a stock block (i.e. JDM Sam, and Pirana). I would also venture to say sense they pull on these cars they would definately pull on an SRT4. About the clunk, I have almost 40K on my car, and I don't have the clunk. Plus you can get a fix for what? 130? Sure the stock radio sucks, I agree with that, but what stock radio doesn't? You can pick up a decent alpine for around 130 that is Ipod interface ready. So overall, I would have to say that the MSP is a great ALL AROUND car for the money. Yeah, your not running 12's out of the box, but neither does the SRT4. You might like the straight races more, but that is your opinion and thats cool, but you can't discredit what some have done with the stock block of the MSP. Plus you can't say that the MSP does not handle like a beast, clunk or not.

You called? You left out the GTO 6.0L and MS6.:)

Anyone with a MS3 in Dallas please contact me, we will set up a run and video tape it for everyone here.

1/4 mile is all about traction and hole shot. You want to test which car is faster come on a freeway run.

This thread is full of magazine racing. Bring the car out real world real driver and run it, not this magazine bullshit.

[JDM Sam]

LOL I like your post. Cool headed. The only thing that I have to say about JDM and the rest of them is they had to sink SOOO much money into the car to be fast. You can put the same about in other cars and clean house. Other then that, yea if you have the money you can make it fast. But with the right amount of money you can make anything fast.What is "SOOO" much?
Intake, exhaust,fmic, and unchip is too much? With those mods I'm still cheaper than a MS3 @ sticker out the door with TT&L, counting the non GT model.

Pirana bought his car used and it is even cheaper. As for power mods he has the same amount as me plus a turbo manifold. The other mods you see mostly are aesthetic and suspension mods.

[JDM Sam]

I miss spelled the word but you got what I was saying. I got it because it was new for 11k. The civic was 16 amd the mazda had more options then the rest. That and I didn't say the protege sucked, just the msp. The only reason the make the car was to move some inventory, they slap a cheap turbo and body kit on it and then sell them. That's why they only did so for what a yr and a half? The SRT, STI, EVO don't have to be limited. If mazda built the motor the right way they wouldn't have to worry about that.

These cars are still econo boxes with a turbo. If you want fast take the 26k or more and get a WRX.
The WRX is just an IMPREZA Turbo'd.

[Pirana]

Although I do agree that WRXs and Evos have a better built motor and driveline, they are still econo-boxes. The Impreza wasnt a powerhouse in the US until 2002 and the Lancer was a rent-a-car until the Evo showed up. Same with the Protege. And even though, yes they did slap a turbo to sell the remaining inventory (only in the U.S.) the MP3 was the real deal.

If anyone remembers, when the MP3 came out, Sport Compact Car magazine did a test on one of Cali's racetracks (not 1/4 mile) of an MP3 vs. a WRX. The MP3 was over 2 seconds faster than the turbocharged 227bhp AWD monster! Thats a beating.

If MSPs have a bad rep for blowing up, its because in the begining people jumped to the turbo swapping, big boost without any type of engine management band wagon. It happened to us, and it happened to plenty of WRX, STi owners. I was on their boards, and saw plenty of STi blow up and throw rods. And if anyone remembers lots of WRX owners broke first gear and had no warranties for it. Lots of Evo owners had plenty of complaints about their cars transmissions (not clutches). I like what Sam says about magazine racing, since thats all it is.

Its true that if we want to make a 400whp monster, we are going to have to work a little harder than the Evo and STi guys, but that is what makes it special. That is the reason I sold my STi and even the NSX. Like Sam said, I havent spend a lot of $$ on the engine. A used intercooler, a Unichip, a used Injen intake, a used boost controller and an exhaust. Thats it folks. The manifold and Nology wires are an extra just for the show! Its not needed.

Sam is as fast as me with out them! We are as fast as stage-2 SRT-4s with toys, as fast as stock STi (by 3 cars) as fast as GTOs with 400bhp, as fast as tuned, header 350z, as fast as RSX w/superchargers....and just with 10psi. Yeap, that is all we run. What that tells you....is all in the tune, baby! (first)

[Kansei]

^^

yay for sticking with Mazda :)

[kamon8404]

Damn, enough said! Well put Pirana, and JDM Sam. There you have it, the proof, that the MSP is a power house.

[Hughes412]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.

[Donas64]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.

Agreed.

Stock for stock the MS3 while the overall better car is not faster than an SRT4 and has even less of a handling advantage than the MSP had. It's a good thing the Caliber SRT4 is an ugly beast or the MS3's reign would be short indeed.

[JDM Sam]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.

That's why I let them honk. Racing from a stop only tells which car has traction and driver variable on launching. Tuning didn't cost me anything since I tuned it.

[kamon8404]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.

How could you say that aftermarket is off? Especially, if you bought your stock car for way less then they bought theirs for. If they bought theirs for 20k and you only paid 13k for yours. You should be able to dump 8k into it and see what dollar for dollar gets you. You need to look at the platform you get for the dollar to dollar figure. If I bought mine for 13 and I beat a car that costs 8k more, thats just embarrasing for them, and I would hope since they paid so much more than they would be spanking the pants off of me.

[Hughes412]

That's why I let them honk. Racing from a stop only tells which car has traction and driver variable on launching. Tuning didn't cost me anything since I tuned it.
I thought I heard you did it. That saves a tone of money. Few people can do that.

[Hughes412]

How could you say that aftermarket is off? Especially, if you bought your stock car for way less then they bought theirs for. If they bought theirs for 20k and you only paid 13k for yours. You should be able to dump 8k into it and see what dollar for dollar gets you. You need to look at the platform you get for the dollar to dollar figure. If I bought mine for 13 and I beat a car that costs 8k more, thats just embarrasing for them, and I would hope since they paid so much more than they would be spanking the pants off of me.
No it don't work like that. So you pay 100k for a supercar, whats to say you dont go out and get a RX7 and put 50k in it. You'd beat the supercar all day in a race. But that still doesn't mean you car is better. That just means you spent a lot of money in it.

[WetsuitxNinja]

No one said that you can't make the MSP faster. The thread was, has the MS3 dethroned the srt4? And so far the answer is no! JDSAM and Pirana it takes money to tune, how much did it cost? Plus we are talking about out of the box cars. Once you start putting afte market parts on a car all bets are off. I think doing races from a role is no way to tell which is better. Most of the time the person doing the honking gets the jump. Racing from a stop is the only way to do it. It does no good to have a fast car if you can't launch it.


Ok ive read this whole thread and half the posts in here probably made me stupider for reading them.

How many times a day do you race from a stop? Most the time I get the urge to jump on the gas is on windey roads or on the freeway. You dont believe people with first hand experience with the ms3 and srt4.

Racing cars to see which is better?? Only thing thats showing off is power. If thats all you care about screw both the ms3 and srt4, go buy an old muscle car and supercharge it. It will be a lot cheaper than both and you can drive yourself straight off a cliff faster too (first) Jk about that part but really, but damn you sound like you just hate the world, drink a beer and cheer up man.

[Wicked_Alien]

This post Will probably make me stupid but
the Srt-4 is the faster car.The MS3 is a nice car for the money but it wont be faster than an srt-4 with equal drivers. It will be very close but slower. The differance will be balance and the telepathic handling that mazda seems to put in all of thier cars(more rewarding). I also would like to point out that Most srt-4's at this point in time will be modded, so the chances that you will race a stock one will be slim. I love mazda's and srt-4's as I have owned both. My next car purchase will be another SRT-4 as nice as the MS3 is I chose the raw power and easy tunabilty of the SRT-4 plus they are alot cheaper used now. just my .02

[Hughes412]

Ok ive read this whole thread and half the posts in here probably made me stupider for reading them.

How many times a day do you race from a stop? Most the time I get the urge to jump on the gas is on windey roads or on the freeway. You dont believe people with first hand experience with the ms3 and srt4.

Racing cars to see which is better?? Only thing thats showing off is power. If thats all you care about screw both the ms3 and srt4, go buy an old muscle car and supercharge it. It will be a lot cheaper than both and you can drive yourself straight off a cliff faster too (first) Jk about that part but really, but damn you sound like you just hate the world, drink a beer and cheer up man.
YOU READ ALL OF IT?!! Yea I wouldn't have done that.(first)
I've already done the mucle car thing, I think my next toy will be a late 70s to 83 Vette. I love the coke bottle cars.

But as for the race question, I always race from a stop. That's the only way you will find the faster and better car. How many Profesional race car drivers (besided the multi lap ones) start from a role? None! I don't see spending 25k for a car that is only good from a 2nd gear role. That and its not a fare race to do it from you cars sweet spot because that might not be the other cars. From a stop its even and both drivers have a fair chance.

[Pirana]

I used to agree with your statement...specially when I used to own an AWD car. "Oh you dont want to race from a stop, what can hang?" Well, that is why there are different race-categories...to equal them. All FWD cars will act different than AWD and RWD. So the equilizer for us non-professional "racer" is the race from a role. In this races the true power of a car can be shown...not how well it grips or launches from a stop. That is why most people are more impressed with the trap speed in the 1/4 mile than the time it posted. Of course this is all my opinion. :)

[CTGrey02]

Racing from a roll is lame. Learn how to handle your car, if you cant launch properly it's a testament to your lacking skill. Lastly... take it to the track where it belongs. People's lives are at stake on the street.

[Pirana]

we do take it to the track....as a matter of fact that is where we are heading today....as for lack of skills, I dont think so. If you are not on a track, races from a stop depend in a lot of variables and if you have been paired with an AWD you stand no chance, no matter how good you are PERIOD. You might catch him, if you have enough power, maybe, after 2 miles. And you are lying if you can say you have never put the foot to the metal on a public street.(poke)

[Donas64]

I think all of us at one time or another especially given our penchant for zoom zoom have let it rip up publice streets. I know I have (not that my P5 can get going very fast being bone stock) but you just have to do it in smart conditions. I see nothing wrong with nailing the gas pedal on a wide open interstate where the nearest car is hundreds of feet ahead of you as long as you back off well before you get close. The only people you put in danger is are you and your wallet if there is a cop hiding in the bushes. And also I make it a point NEVER to drive fast if I'm carrying passengers cuz their lives are on the line also. I drive like a grandma when my wifes in the car. But when she's not.......

[Mspeed3]

My cousin has a srt 4 and the day after he bought it it had overheating problems. Like my dad says Dodge has come out with some incredible engines, but the ingenuity ends there. their interiors are cheap and reliability lacks. Back in the the muscle car days my dad said they are tin cans, and today it's the same story. As far as racing the discussion is a matter of opinion. The motors are totally diff and the intercoolers are set up differently. I know my car is well built, reliable, and fun. I think the MS3 will hold it's value better and maybe it will go up. These cars are limited production and on top of the sport compact hill. I don't regret my decision in buying one and I look foward to driving it everyday. Also I'm glad to be a part of the mazda community again.

[CTGrey02]

we do take it to the track....as a matter of fact that is where we are heading today....as for lack of skills, I dont think so. If you are not on a track, races from a stop depend in a lot of variables and if you have been paired with an AWD you stand no chance, no matter how good you are PERIOD. You might catch him, if you have enough power, maybe, after 2 miles. And you are lying if you can say you have never put the foot to the metal on a public street.(poke)

I've never had ANY problems lining up against Evo's, STi's or any other AWD cars that I've been lined up against at the track. Skill does have a lot to do with it. Reaction time, proper tire temp, proper PSI in the tires, proper suspension set up, gearing and RPM. Every tenth saved in the 60' saves you 2 tenths at the end of the 1/4 mile.

[Hughes412]

LOL, your car will never go up in value, never!


My cousin has a srt 4 and the day after he bought it it had overheating problems. Like my dad says Dodge has come out with some incredible engines, but the ingenuity ends there. their interiors are cheap and reliability lacks. Back in the the muscle car days my dad said they are tin cans, and today it's the same story. As far as racing the discussion is a matter of opinion. The motors are totally diff and the intercoolers are set up differently. I know my car is well built, reliable, and fun. I think the MS3 will hold it's value better and maybe it will go up. These cars are limited production and on top of the sport compact hill. I don't regret my decision in buying one and I look foward to driving it everyday. Also I'm glad to be a part of the mazda community again.

[Kansei]

LOL, your car will never go up in value, never!

My love for Mazda borders on psychotic, but even I know that these aren't Ferarris we're driving. The only chance they ever have of going up in value is in 40-50 years when our rice-mobiles are considered "classics". :P

[Donas64]

LOL, your car will never go up in value, never!

I don't know, at the rate people are blowing their MSP motors, there might only be 2 or 3 of them in the future and those will be worth some serious cash to collectors.... as long as they don't go WOT in 5th gear!

(peep)


Just messing with the MSP owners. I got nothing but love for ya'll!

[Donas64]

My love for Mazda borders on psychotic, but even I know that these aren't Ferarris we're driving. The only chance they ever have of going up in value is in 40-50 years when our rice-mobiles are considered "classics". :P

I can se it now at barons auto auction, a red 2007 MS3 with Mazdas LEGENDARY 2.3 liter disi turbo. I predict 6 figure bids!

[vindication]

yeah 6 figures like $1000.00

[Donas64]

yeah 6 figures like $1000.00

That was quite funny!

[WTF MATE]

Hondas Dethrone All! Integra FTW(first)

[njshift]

Many of you are misunderstood on how the srt-4 handles.
I suggest those who are uninformed check some of the srt-4's racing history in autox, road racing, and rally.

The straight line performance is what the srt-4 in known for only because the majority of owners drag race them.

I'm not here to criticize your car, just interested in learning more about it. I eventually plan on picking up a used speed 3 sometime down the road as a daily driver. I'm a fan of any high horsepower fwd no matter who manufactures it.

[voiceKoil]

Well if your going stock for stock, then the ms3 is the way to go. IMO Its interior is way nicer, the exterior looks better, more options, mazdas hold there value better. Thier performance is close....But if your trying to just go all out right off the bat I would get a srt4, theres loads of stuff out and they are cheaper to pick up used. I could have bought a few for $13000 with under 20k mi on them. Then add 8k in parts to be the same price as a Ms3 new and It would kill most that pulled upto it. But its in personal taste I personally choose the MS3, I know who drove it, ME, its functional, since I freestyle mountian bike and snowboard, and sell stuff on ebay, nice options, nice car in general, and can still be modded., and they basically look like a normal 3 5dr, so you dont get cops riding your A$$ for having a tuner car.....

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/2497000-2497999/2497424_33_full.jpg