My Mazdaspeed Conversion Build

[gone_fishin]

So, I created this thread to show the msp community (that I love so much) my project that I've been working on for the past four weeks or so.

As seen under my forum name, I own a 1999 protege ES (1.8 liter) 5 speed. About a month ago I decided to begin the entire mazdaspeed underhood conversion. This wasn't just a motor swap, it was basically the entire 2003 mazdaspeed protege front end which gives you an idea of the ammount of work it's taken. Some of you might know my story-- I purchased this MSP front-end with the intention of doing this project but time contraints and a lot of other things got in the way. After trying to sell it for a time and debating with myself, I finally decided that there will always be excuses and to just do it. Listed below is everything that was purchased for the swap, and everything that is in the process of being swapped in. The front end clip had approximately 18,000 miles on it and was in excellent condition.

What was Purchased:

-MSP 2.0 Engine (with engine cover), intake mani, intake piping and MAF
-MSP 5 Speed Manual Transmission
-MSP Limited Slip Differential
-D & P side Drive Axles
-Callaway Turbo Manifold with Garrett turbo assem
-Callaway Downpipes (both S and J pipes)
-Stock Intercooler with all intercooler lines and piping
-ECU and ECU wiring harness
-Front Suspension-- tokicos with RB springs (including front sway bar)
-Stock Motormounts
-Shifter Assembly and Shifter Linkages
-Driver side and passenger side brake assemblies-- includes spindles,
ABS sensors, brake lines, hub assemblies, rotors, and calipers
-Also including MSP Sparco Gas, Clutch, and Brake Pedal Assemblies
-MSP Subframe


After doing a lot of research, I think I might be one of only two guys in the north american mazda community that have done this swap. It was definately uncharted territory. It's come a long way since it was started and it's been a headache would be an understatement. However, the build is on its way to completion and that makes it all worth the while. This build has presented so many unique problems and obstacles-- we've had to fabricate mounts, brackets, and a driver side axle, and we are currently in the process of dealing with all the electrical nuances. Everything above will be used, even the front suspension.

The Headaches

There have been plenty of discrepancies along the way between the 99 ES and the 03 MSP-- the entire fuel delivery system, the entire exhaust system, the entire cooling system, the spindle and hub assembly differences, the ECU and the majority of the electrical/wiring harnesses.

The Resolutions

To address the fuel system discrepancies, the mazdaspeed protege fuel tank was ordered (with the msp internal pump) and the fuel lines. The msp fuel tank however, was slightly different in it's design, so the 1.8 fuel tank was used and the msp fuel pumps and lines swapped in to keep it as clean as possible. To address the exhaust system differences, I ordered and dropped in the GHL full 3'' turboback exhaust. After installation, the downpipe was found to be touching the oil pan, so it had to be heated with a blowtorch and coaxed off the oil pan (no kinks or creases were made). The spindle and hub assembly conversion was an absolute nightmare. Unfortunately the 99 ES came from the factory with drum rears and thus 4 bolt hubs. What we finally decided to do was remove the 99 spindles and hub assemblies were from the 99 subframe (still on their lower suspension arms) and re-mount them to the MSP subframe. This allowed me to keep the 4 bolt hubs up front-- otherwise it would have been 5 up front and 4 in the rear. The splining on the driver side axle was giving us considerable difficulty, so we ended up fabricating and splining an entire new axle for it. Side motor mounts also had to be fabricated from scratch because the bolt pattern on the MSP side mounts differ from the bolt pattern on the 99 frame.

We also ran into some problems with the cooling system. The normally aspirated third generation proteges have radiators that span the entire distance between the headlights within the engine bay. The fans additionally span this distance. To accomodate for the MSP SMIC, the radiator and the radiator fans on the MSP were designed much less wide. So, a stock MSP radiator and fans were purchased to make room for the stock SMIC. That heat-soaked stock piece of crap will be scrapped though, and I'll be installing the Hi-boost front mounted intercooler for the msp relatively soon.

The Injen cold air intake system will also need to be retrofitted to fit, which will involve some cutting and redesigning. Why not get the Injen CAI for the MSP? To be completely truthful I really don't feel like spending another 200 some dollars, and I'm sure with some modification the intake for my 99 will function/fit just the same.

What still needs to be addressed are the electrical and wiring nuances-- there are tons, and they all pertain to the tach and gauges. It's going to take a lot of wiring diagrams and some soldering, but we'll get it done.


Current Modifications to the Build

-AWR 95 durometer motor mounts (front and back),
-Custom fabricated side motor mounts
-Full GHL 3'' turboback exhaust
-Injen Cold Air Intake
-B&M Short Shifter
-Power Slot Slotted Rotors
-Autometer water, oil, and voltage gauges
-Bridgestone Potenza Z rated tires.

Modifications Soon to Come

-Hi-boost FMIC
-SU Intake Mani
-UR UDP
-Intake and Exhaust cams-- (see twighlightprotege's GB thread)
-UR stage 2 clutch and UR flywheel
-Boost Sciences MBC
-Tein Coilovers (non EDFC, all 4 corners)
-Boost and Wideband AF gauges

I'm planning on keeping the boost at stock levels, or possibly 1-2 pounds over stock. I have no plans to make any modifications to the exterior-- I'd like to keep it completely stock in appearance.


The project isn't complete but the engine is cranking and because of this, I wanted to snap some pictures tonight and take some video for you all. I hope you enjoy. The engine bay (and car) is dirty as shit and I apologize, but it's been in the shop for a while. As soon as it's finished it will all be cleaned up. Enjoy!

This address links to some pictures of the front end clip originally before it was swapped in. It will look just as clean as this once the build is completed.

To The Bottom...
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117789&page=6&highlight=mazdaspeed+changeover

Here are the pictures and vids that were taken tonight. (Note: the whining noise on the first startup is the power steering pump-- that will be fixed tomorrow. The SMIC or the intake have not been installed yet so esentially right now it's n/a until they are. The pictures of the engine and tranny on the come-along are what was taken out.)

Giving it some throttle.
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/th_MOV01249.jpg (http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/?action=view&current=MOV01249.flv)

Cranking the Engine.
(the whining noise is the power steering pump-- it will be fixed tomorrow)
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/th_MOV01241.jpg (http://s107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/?action=view&current=MOV01241.flv)

The Old Setup
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01260.jpg

Another Shot of the Old Setup
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01261.jpg

The GHL Downpipes and Exhaust System
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01248.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01247.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01246.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01245.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01244.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01243.jpg

One of the Fabricated Side Motormounts
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/zach_tucker/DSC01242.jpg

[gone_fishin]

bump for vids

[theEZV]

nice

[joka1]

damn, nice job. subbing for more pics/progress

[D-rock240]

WOW, impressive!

[gone_fishin]

damn, nice job. subbing for more pics/progress

Thanks Rob :)

[Brian MP5T]

Holy Shit. I'm impressed with your efforts!

[joka1]

gone fishing: your welcome that is very impressive swap!!

btw brian that (are you new, click here) video if friggen awesome!! rofl!!

rob

[gone_fishin]

does anyone know of any other 99-00's on this forum that have done this swap?

[tricky]

Amazing...subs fo shizz on this one. pretty impressive build going on here

[vxfilmer1000]

Nice man !!

[Rotary_Powered]

Wow, the people wanted more MSP's this member is building his own! Awsome job very nice.

[gone_fishin]

thanks for all the support/feedback guys, it's great to hear what people think about my build

[TheMAN]

I'm not sure why all this fabricating nonsense had to be done... negatize swapped the "same" engine and tranny into his 99 without any of that shit.... everything bolted up for him... the only difference between your swap and his is the lack of any turbo, but that has nothing to do with shit not fitting... although the axles are technically different (the MSP ones are thicker), they still have the same splines and length as the non-turbo ones... and as for the mounts, they're all the same as the non-turbo ones except for the one by the belt (it does look physically the same though, down to the bracketry)

are you sure you've used ALL the hardware from the MSP to do your swap?

btw, your speedometer won't work no matter what you do unless you have ABS.... if you don't then the only way to fix that is to crack the tranny open and install a speedo gear... also have fun with the various electrical oddities because the dash harness (as well as every piece of wiring) in the 99-00 is way different from the 01+ cars

its really cool you did this swap, but I don't think you've done enough research before you got yourself into this deep shit... like I said, negatize was the first one to install a 2.0 engine into an early 3rd gen, and that shit was a total bitch... he still officially isn't even done with his swap even though his car works right now and *most* of the electrical related shit works! had you read his posts, you would've quickly turned away from the swap idea and just got an aftermarket turbo instead.... hell if you asked me to begin with, even I would tell you not to fuck with this shit.... it's simply too much work!
anyhow, to fix the other shit that you've yet to encounter, you'll have to swap the dash harness and all sorts of other shit in the car

good luck!

[gone_fishin]

The side motormounts were not matching up to the frame. It was either drill into the frame or fabricate a new mount. I decided to fabricate a mount to keep it cleaner. The splines on the driver side msp axle were not fitting properly into the hub assembly of the 99 spindle-- perhaps the splines were damaged somehow. So, a new axle was fabricated and splined-- not a huge deal since the machine shop is right next door.

I have no brackets for the radiator or the side mount-- therefore they had to be fabricated as well.

I'm aware of the speedometer situation-- I've been aware of all of this including the wiring discrepancies since day1, it's actually the main reason why I was hesitant to do the swap in the first place.

[ebmp5]

bump for a good build. if i don't get a ms3 i think i might just do this. but with less headache's lol.

bumppppppppp!!!!!!! good job bro!!

like i said welcome to the darkside!(first)

[Rotary_Powered]

MP5+ budget turbo kit and good management = hot hatch....

[sandspeed]

sweet man.

ghl exhaust sounds teh best
BoOst is the shiz..

[gone_fishin]

sweet man.

ghl exhaust sounds teh best
BoOst is the shiz..

thanks sandspeed, by the way I think your msp is dead sexy

[Velocifero]

awsome man, keep it updated.

[gone_fishin]

btw, your speedometer won't work no matter what you do unless you have ABS.... if you don't then the only way to fix that is to crack the tranny open and install a speedo gear...

With regard to the speedometer/odometer, the 2003 and 2003.5 mazdaspeed protege comes from the factory with an RABS system. The RABS electric analog speedometer receives the signal from the ABS sensor located on the inner most steering knuckle of both the driver and passenger side spindles. It lightly touches the axle gearing just in front of the axle splines which insert into the hub assembly. With it's light contact, the sensor reads revolutions/sec (speedometer and odometer), and other useful information for the ABS system.

The 1999 ES comes from the factory with a TISOM (transmission internal speedometer and odometer module). With no ABS system to speak of and no TISOM in the msp tranny, the RABS system cannot be carried over to the 99. More than likely what will end up happening is I will end up using a PSOM (programmable speedometer and odometer module). The PSOM system uses a microprocessor that receives revolutions/second data from the DSS (differential speed sensor). The microprocessor crunches some numbers to convert the the electrical signal to the 8000 pulse/mile output which is what can be read on your tach's speedometer. A similar PSOM is used in ADL dashes (automatic data logger).

I could have gone into this much detail for every single issue that I listed in my original post but I figured I'd spare everyone-- the writeup is long enough as it is.

[TheMAN]

all the proteges that have ABS are 4 wheel ABS systems... I don't know where this "RABS" thing comes from

there's no "module" in the non-ABS transmission... it's simply a worm gear driven electromagnetic sensor (a mini generator that creates AC voltage that the ECU will receive)... all the signal processing is done by the ECU and gauge cluster... the speedo sensor/gear is installed on the differential itself on a non-ABS tranny/car

there is NO "differential speed sensor" on the protege

ABS can be retrofitted onto a non-ABS car.... you just have to swap every piece of hardware and wiring over... is it worth it? NO

[gone_fishin]

you install the differential speed sensor, I said what will more than likely end up happening is I will use a DSS. I didn't say use the DSS


all the proteges that have ABS are 4 wheel ABS systems... I don't know where this "RABS" thing comes from

there's no "module" in the non-ABS transmission... it's simply a worm gear driven electromagnetic sensor (a mini generator that creates AC voltage that the ECU will receive)... all the signal processing is done by the ECU and gauge cluster... the speedo sensor/gear is installed on the differential itself on a non-ABS tranny/car

there is NO "differential speed sensor" on the protege

ABS can be retrofitted onto a non-ABS car.... you just have to swap every piece of hardware and wiring over... is it worth it? NO

[TheMAN]

The side motormounts were not matching up to the frame. It was either drill into the frame or fabricate a new mount. I decided to fabricate a mount to keep it cleaner. The splines on the driver side msp axle were not fitting properly into the hub assembly of the 99 spindle-- perhaps the splines were damaged somehow. So, a new axle was fabricated and splined-- not a huge deal since the machine shop is right next door.

I have no brackets for the radiator or the side mount-- therefore they had to be fabricated as well.

I'm aware of the speedometer situation-- I've been aware of all of this including the wiring discrepancies since day1, it's actually the main reason why I was hesitant to do the swap in the first place.

like I said, I don't see how it won't "match up" when negatize did his swap it all bolted right in... like I said, he has a 99... the only thing I can think of is you're missing pieces for the swap... all the mounting holes for all sorts of shit should be there on even the 99s... mazda has already been selling the sport20 in 99 in japan, which is the wagon version with the 2.0 engine... and yes, the chassis is the same

[gone_fishin]

I guess I shouldn't have smoked that PCP before putting in the motor mounts(ugh)

and keep in mind I wasn't fortunate enough to have a donor car. All I had was what I ordered.

[TheMAN]

you install the differential speed sensor, I said what will more than likely end up happening is I will use a DSS. I didn't say use the DSS

ok... but let's not complicate matters by using all these fancy terminologies... it's a simple speedo gear/sensor and that's it (in fact the correct terminology is "VSS" which is vehicle speed sensor)... that's the way it's been for all the normal proteges.... the ABS cars is not something we should care about since it uses the wheel speed sensors (which is called the "WSS") for the ABS functions and mazda saved a few bucks by stealing the signal off of it for the speedometer, nothing special about it or unique specifically for the speedometer on an ABS car... and just so you know, the pick up sensors don't EVER touch the toothed rings on the axles/hubs.. they are always slightly away from them... if they touched then shit breaks!

[gone_fishin]

you are trying to argue over milimeters here with me edwin. I'm not looking for arguements, so don't look for them in my thread. If you think my build will fail, then laugh it up when it does all right?

It's one thing to sit back and naysay, but it's a whole other thing to actually be doing it. Instead of putting in your two cents about what you think I haven't thought about and talking about how my build will fail, how about simply asking if I have considered these things or asking what I plan to do to get around them? Instead of attempting to trash my build, how about you try to support it? This is supposed to be a community where we all support one another. If you're going to critisize, please do it constructively.

[gone_fishin]

Back on the topic of the build:

Tomorrow my plans are to

1.) Fabricate brackets for the msp radiator and SMIC
2.) Remove '99 radiator and install msp radiator
3.) Replace radiator hoses
4.) Radiator flush, new coolant
5.) Install SMIC, connect all piping
6.) Modify CAI to fit this application
7.) Put on slotted rotors and new calipers
8.) Remove '99 suspension components.

I'll take some pictures tomorrow at the end of the day to keep the thread updated.

[Rotary_Powered]

all the proteges that have ABS are 4 wheel ABS systems... I don't know where this "RABS" thing comes from

there's no "module" in the non-ABS transmission... it's simply a worm gear driven electromagnetic sensor (a mini generator that creates AC voltage that the ECU will receive)... all the signal processing is done by the ECU and gauge cluster... the speedo sensor/gear is installed on the differential itself on a non-ABS tranny/car

there is NO "differential speed sensor" on the protege

ABS can be retrofitted onto a non-ABS car.... you just have to swap every piece of hardware and wiring over... is it worth it? NO
I thought even the newer MP3 did NOT have ABS.

[TheMAN]

the MP3 never came with ABS

[Brian MP5T]

btw brian that (are you new, click here) video if friggen awesome!! rofl!!

rob

(first) I liked it!

[gone_fishin]

Big day for the build today-- much was accomplished.

First thing on my list for today was to remove the 1999 radiator and radiator fans. After it was removed, the msp radiator, radiator fans, and SMIC were mocked up before the install. I found out then, that there was not enough space between the front of the SMIC and the existing AC condensor on the 1999. So, the lines were purged and disconnected and the condensor removed, in addition to plugging the lines and the receiver to prevent debris from entering the system. Side note, I need someone to tell me if the msp AC condensor is only as wide as the radiator itself or if it spans the entire distance between the headlights like the 1999. If it it shorter I'll have to order the MSP AC condensor. If it's wider I'll just have to modify the brackets to make it sit up further in the frame.

With the condensor out of the way, the msp radiator, radiator fans and SMIC were installed and bolted into place. There were, however, two problems: The first major problem was that the passenger side radiator fan's electrical receiver was not compatible with the 1999 passenger side sender. So, the receiver (wires and all) from the 1999 passenger side radiator fan was swapped with the msp passenger side radiator fan receiver with some soldering. After that was complete, the sender/receiver hooked right up. The second major problem was that I didn't have the msp radiator/smic brackets. The brackets from the 1999 were not compatible because the msp radiator and SMIC sit flush with the frame (they are about an inch taller) whereas the 1999 radiator sat about an inch below the frame. The 1999 brackets accomodated this by arching downwards to bolt up to the radiator. This obviously wasn't going to work for the msp setup, so new brackets had to be fabricated. Templates were drawn and after about a half hour with the band saw, the grinder, the drill press, the belt sander, and the dye-grinder... the brackets were finished. They sat perfectly flush with the frame and fit excellently.

After the radiator, fans, and SMIC were mounted and the sensors hooked up, the lower radiator hose had to be reconnected and the upper hose had to be trimmed and turned to reach the msp radiator (about 2-3 inches taken off).

Once things were functioning the intake situation was tackled. After playing around with the n/a injen cai piping to find the best routed design, I settled on a design that is pretty similar to the injen cai design for the msp-- it flows nearly the same and the filter still sits under the driver-side headlight. The couplers and MAF were connected along with the intake-to-head line and the ambient air sensor. There is however, no bung location for the stock bypass valve, so a 3/4 inch hole was drilled and threaded in the intake, and a 3/4 inch barb was screwed in to make the bung for the bypass valve. The intake was cleaned to remove all the metal shavings and reinstalled. The stock SMIC-to-throttlebody pipe was installed and the radiator filled with coolant. The engine was cranked and it fired up like a charm. The power steering resevoir was filled with PS fluid and the wheel was turned slowly back and forth to drive out the airation that had built up-- that's what was making that nasty whining noise in the video. The motor sounds incredible. The 95 durometer motor mounts make the frame vibrate when the car idles/crankes along with the rumble of the turbo-back. When I gave it throttle it sounded amazing-- much better than tuesday's vid when neither the turbo, SMIC or the intake were hooked up. With wide open throttle and the turbo cranking you can actually see the turbo-to-SMIC piping expanding at the ribs from the air displacement-- I absolutely love it.

Tomorrow will be another busy day trying to get the remainder of the wiring issues solved. I'll keep you all updated.

Also I found out something interesting the other day. My car weighed in at about 2570 with the motor swap, that's about 275 lbs less than the mazdaspeed protege curb weight of 2843 lbs-- I believe that's a correct figure.

[JDM Sam]

I give you props for doing all this work but in the end it would have been cheaper to buy a used msp! The msp condensor is different from other proteges. The power streering cooler pipe is longer too. I suggest you pick up the MSP workshop addendum. It'll help you out in all the minute differences.

[gone_fishin]

So far I haven't exceeded $3000, I think you'd be hardpressed to find a used msp for that. The clip also had 18,000 miles as opposed to my 99 which had over 100,000-- it's like getting another life for my car.

I enjoy working on/building cars and I love challenges. It will be nice to be unique among the 99-00's and be boosted for a change.

[joka1]

man with every mod (specially a engine swap) their are problems, u seem to have done your research and knew what you are getting into! great job on not just jumping headfirst into somthing u got an urge to do (like i do alot but i learn quick ;) lol) next time i am in NY i want to see this car (june of 07 probally so u have time)

rob

[fLyPiNoY7]

would u mind fabricating me some radiator/smic brackets?...ill pay u...i have no clue where to find some for mine...

[gone_fishin]

would u mind fabricating me some radiator/smic brackets?...ill pay u...i have no clue where to find some for mine...

for the mp5 right? what's wrong with the stockers?

[terbow]

would u mind fabricating me some radiator/smic brackets?...ill pay u...i have no clue where to find some for mine...

u know u can just buy msp brackets from the dealer for 12 bucks each and save the headache.

[fLyPiNoY7]

since i was able to pick up an msp radiator/smic for my turbo install, the p5 brackets dont fit the msp's setup...

edit: whats the part number for the brackets?...id like to avoid the dealership since the one closest to me isnt mazdaspeed and the next closest one always gets my orders wrong...

[gone_fishin]

oh ok, yeah I can do that. If i get time tomorrow i'll just use the templates i drew up today. You might be able to get the msp brackets at the dealership quicker though

[Alejo_NIN]

damn, nice !!!

i was intending to do this swap to a mazda 626 '98, but decided the MSP looked much better..

good luck

[fLyPiNoY7]

oh ok, yeah I can do that. If i get time tomorrow i'll just use the templates i drew up today. You might be able to get the msp brackets at the dealership quicker though

whats the part number of the brackets?...im gonna try one more time and hopefully they wont screw up my order again...i have like 5 wrong parts that they wont take back cause of special order...

[terbow]

whats the part number of the brackets?...im gonna try one more time and hopefully they wont screw up my order again...i have like 5 wrong parts that they wont take back cause of special order...

if they ordered the wrong part, and u gave the the correct number, y did u pay for them?

[gone_fishin]

i'm not sure of the part number but if you call the dealership and ask them for the parts extension they can give you the part numbers of what you're looking for. Just be sure to explain what you're looking for clearly and to specify that it's the radiator/smic mounting brackets for the mazdaspeed protege (03 or 03.5). Tell him to make sure they're flush and not bi-level-- they have parts diagrams on their computer.

[gone_fishin]

Anyway, if you want me to fab you up some brackets tomorrow I'll see what I can do.

[fLyPiNoY7]

if they ordered the wrong part, and u gave the the correct number, y did u pay for them?

i paid for them before they were ordered so when they arrived, i had no choice but to accept it...

[wwpms6]

i paid for them before they were ordered so when they arrived, i had no choice but to accept it...


have you tried contacting ken from protegegarage about the brackets?

[fLyPiNoY7]

not yet...ill try him next...

[Blade4804]

bump for more pics

[NegatiZE]

It's odd how the mounts didn't line up for you. Everything on mine was a quick and easy swap. Did your engine come out of a wrecked MSP?

[gone_fishin]

It's odd how the mounts didn't line up for you. Everything on mine was a quick and easy swap. Did your engine come out of a wrecked MSP?

negatize,

your swap was the n/a 2.0. my swap is the mazdaspeed turbo 2.0. The turbo system obviously needs an intercooler. I wrote in my original blurb that I was holding off on the front mounted intercooler for now, but will be getting the hiboost FMIC fairly soon. However, until I can, the turbo system needs an IC nonetheless and the only one I have is the stock SMIC piece of crap. While it's not ideal, it's what I have to use for the time being.

All 3rd gen proteges that are n/a (99-03 and p5) have radiators that span the entire distance between the headlights. The radiator fans that sit behind the radiator span the same distance (obviously). Mazda designed the mazdaspeed radiator much less wide to make room for the SMIC that sits directly next to the radiator. To compensate for the decreased surface area, mazdaspeed designed their radiator thicker (by about a half inch) and about an inch taller. This increase in height by one inch is the reason that the 1999 (n/a) radiator brackets could not be used. The 99 (n/a) brackets are bi-level in that the part that braces the radiator is down below the frame. Due to the mazdaspeed radiator being an inch higher, it sits flush with the frame. So, because of this, you cannot use a bi-level bracket on two mounting locations that are flush with one another.

You didn't run into a lot of the turbo, ECU, cooling system, exhaust? and possibly a lot of other problems because you weren't swapping in a mazdaspeed front end clip. You might have even been fortunate enough to have disk rear brakes and not drum rears like me. Becuase I have drum rears, I have 4 lug hubs/spindles. The mazdaspeed has 5 lug hubs/spindles, so the conversion had to be done, or else I'd have 5 lug hubs up front and 4 in the rear haha.

We did this by pulling off the 1999 spindles (with the hub assemblies) on their lower suspension arm and putting them on the mazdaspeed sub-frame (it's much easier than getting the hub out because they are machine pressed into place, or trying to remove the spindles from the ball joints that hold them to the lower suspension arms). If you've ever tried to remove a ball joint you'll definately know why I side-stepped that at all costs.

The axles had to be fabricated because the mazdapseed axle splines obviously fitted the msp tranny on the tranny side, but the splines didn't match up to the splining within the 1999 ES hubs. My 1999 axles would spline fit (obviously) into the 1999 ES hubs, but the splines would not fit in the msp tranny. So, we fabricated axles-- it's much easier than trying to fabricate new hubs.

Yes, my clip came out of a wrecked MSP, but it was wrecked in the passenger side-rear so the front end was untouched. However, All I had was what I listed in my original writeup. Unfortunately I don't have a donor car which would have made this project quite a bit easier.

By the way negatize, your swap looks great. Did you get all the electrical issues figured out?

[gone_fishin]

I'll post pics tomorrow for you all. Everything's basically done under the hood.

I went in late today, and I started by fabricating a bracket for the coolant overflow resevior and it looks pretty nice. I also had to deal with the fact that my secondary O2 sensor is missing from the GHL exhaust beyond the flexbellow. None came with the front-end clip, so I had to snag one off of my 1999 exhaust pipe. Unfortunately it took a while to get it out because it was rusted on and at such an odd angle behind the heat shield. The exhaust mani was still bolted to the motor so it made it difficult, but we got it. We couldn't use the upper 02 sensor on the 99 motor because the wires weren't long enough and the 02 sensor wiring cannot be soldered. Unfortunately I took the msp sway bar off when I took the front suspension off the clip long before we put in the msp subframe, so the sway bar had to be put back in. Getting the bolts out from the control arm that connects the sway bar to the strut was agonizing-- they were completed rusted in and were not moving. When I could get the nuts to move with the high impact they would just take the threads with them (even with liquid wrench and heating them). I finally got one side off but the other side's bolt had to be cut off with the wizard wheel.

I got side tracked for a while helping one of the guys take a transmission out of a customer's honda civic (funny story about that car actually which I'll tell you guys later). We were going to move my car to one of the other bays to begin the electrical work when I realized that I had no brake pedal pressure. There was a big column of air in the hydraulic system so it had to be bled and flushed and recirculated-- that took quite some time. That was the end of the day right there.

Tomorrow we'll begin the electrical work-- I will have to start by pinning the computer (voltage reading on all the outputs of the ECU) and then we'll be looking at the wiring diagrams and soldering quite a bit. If we can finish the electrical work tomorrow I want to finish the suspension work and put on my slotted rotors and new calipers. Hopefully then it will be street testable. Cross your fingers, we're shooting for tomorrow.

[khaosman]

Nice! I want to see this baby up and running :D

[fLyPiNoY7]

were u able to figure out the condenser problem?...i was about to mount my radiator/smic with zip ties but realized that the condenser was in the way...

[terbow]

theres nothing to figure out. the msp condensor is shorter (same as the rad) than the sedan/p5 condensor.

[fLyPiNoY7]

yeah, but any way to work around it without changing the condenser?

[gone_fishin]

like terbow said, the msp AC condensor is exactly the same width as the msp radiator. I will let you know if there's any way to modify the mounts to push it further into the frame but I can bet you that I'll end up ordering the msp AC condensor because even with fabricating new brackets and drilling new mounting holes in the frame at the bottom, I highly doubt you'd get the needed 2+ inches of clearance that's needed. 2 inches is a lot when it comes to builds.

[TheMAN]

negatize,

your swap was the n/a 2.0. my swap is the mazdaspeed turbo 2.0. The turbo system obviously needs an intercooler. I wrote in my original blurb that I was holding off on the front mounted intercooler for now, but will be getting the hiboost FMIC fairly soon. However, until I can, the turbo system needs an IC nonetheless and the only one I have is the stock SMIC piece of crap. While it's not ideal, it's what I have to use for the time being.

All 3rd gen proteges that are n/a (99-03 and p5) have radiators that span the entire distance between the headlights. The radiator fans that sit behind the radiator span the same distance (obviously). Mazda designed the mazdaspeed radiator much less wide to make room for the SMIC that sits directly next to the radiator. To compensate for the decreased surface area, mazdaspeed designed their radiator thicker (by about a half inch) and about an inch taller. This increase in height by one inch is the reason that the 1999 (n/a) radiator brackets could not be used. The 99 (n/a) brackets are bi-level in that the part that braces the radiator is down below the frame. Due to the mazdaspeed radiator being an inch higher, it sits flush with the frame. So, because of this, you cannot use a bi-level bracket on two mounting locations that are flush with one another.

You didn't run into a lot of the turbo, ECU, cooling system, exhaust? and possibly a lot of other problems because you weren't swapping in a mazdaspeed front end clip. You might have even been fortunate enough to have disk rear brakes and not drum rears like me. Becuase I have drum rears, I have 4 lug hubs/spindles. The mazdaspeed has 5 lug hubs/spindles, so the conversion had to be done, or else I'd have 5 lug hubs up front and 4 in the rear haha.

We did this by pulling off the 1999 spindles (with the hub assemblies) on their lower suspension arm and putting them on the mazdaspeed sub-frame (it's much easier than getting the hub out because they are machine pressed into place, or trying to remove the spindles from the ball joints that hold them to the lower suspension arms). If you've ever tried to remove a ball joint you'll definately know why I side-stepped that at all costs.

The axles had to be fabricated because the mazdapseed axle splines obviously fitted the msp tranny on the tranny side, but the splines didn't match up to the splining within the 1999 ES hubs. My 1999 axles would spline fit (obviously) into the 1999 ES hubs, but the splines would not fit in the msp tranny. So, we fabricated axles-- it's much easier than trying to fabricate new hubs.

Yes, my clip came out of a wrecked MSP, but it was wrecked in the passenger side-rear so the front end was untouched. However, All I had was what I listed in my original writeup. Unfortunately I don't have a donor car which would have made this project quite a bit easier.

By the way negatize, your swap looks great. Did you get all the electrical issues figured out?

his "n/a 2.0" swap is no different than your "mazdaspeed turbo 2.0" swap... the engine is the same, the tranny is also the same... the only differences between the engine and tranny are things that don't matter as bolting in that shit to the car goes... his car doesn't have rear disc brakes also, and he NEVER had a problem with the axles as I've said already... the splines between the MSP axles and the normal axles are the same.... the hubs are the same on both sides of the car, in fact they never changed them in the whole 3rd generation production cycle... the 5 lug hubs also use the same splines as the 4 lug hubs, the only difference is the extra lug so big deal.... as for the turbo, pipes, etc, all of that shit is illrelevant to the major parts; the engine, tranny, and axles themselves which I've said already that the non-turbo shit and the MSP shit are basically the same (again, let's spare the details, there actual differences but thats beyond the scope of this post)

in otherwords, some shit has gone wrong in your swap (something which I feel you're not understanding)... everything bolted in just fine for negatize... I work on proteges of all sorts all the time, I'd know a difference if I saw one, and I'm telling you that there's no frame/engine mounting boss differences/changes between the 99 and the 03

[fLyPiNoY7]

whats the width of the msp condenser?...i might be able to find an aftermarket replacement for cheaper if the dealership feels like ripping me off again...

[gone_fishin]

well, you seem to know everything there is to know under the sun about proteges so you want to head up my build instead? To be honest I've got a lot of other non protege car related shit I could be doing right now.

[gone_fishin]

I dont know the exact dimensions, my car and all my parts are at the hot rod shop I work at. You'd be better off ordering the msp condensor.

I'm not even sure they make universal condensors that would fit what you're looking for and even if they did, it would be a lot more of a pain in the ass to install that then it would be to tweak the n/a condensor. keep it clean, not hokie

[TheMAN]

whats the width of the msp condenser?...i might be able to find an aftermarket replacement for cheaper if the dealership feels like ripping me off again...

I think ken was selling some from a parted out MSP a while ago

[gone_fishin]

and by the way edwin, no matter what you say, swapping in the n/a 2.0 makes things more simple, especially with respect to the computer and electronics. And yes, what I said in my previous post to negatize is all valid information.

regardless of what you try to portray me as to the mazda community, I'm not an idiot. I've been working on and building cars since I can remember. I work at a locally reputable hot rod shop and the people who are helping out with this build are all professionals with 35+ years of fabrication and build experience. If you want to second guess me that's fine, but don't second guess them.

[TheMAN]

well, you seem to know everything there is to know under the sun about proteges so you want to head up my build instead? To be honest I've got a lot of other non protege car related shit I could be doing right now.

the 99-00 radiators are different than the 01+ ones yes... this is because the core support is (obviously) different due to the different from facia

as far as the radiator brackets goes, the passenger side one will definately work, not sure about the driver's side one as mazda changed the intercooler design between the 99-00 turbo diesel models and the 01-03 turbo diesel models... yes, that's where the radiator and intercooler is from

[TheMAN]

and by the way edwin, no matter what you say, swapping in the n/a 2.0 makes things more simple, especially with respect to the computer and electronics. And yes, what I said in my previous post to negatize is all valid information.

regardless of what you try to portray me as to the mazda community, I'm not an idiot. I've been working on and building cars since I can remember. I work at a locally reputable hot rod shop and the people who are helping out with this build are all professionals with 35+ years of fabrication and build experience. If you want to second guess me that's fine, but don't second guess them.

how many times do I have to tell you that there's no real difference between a non-turbo and turbo swap? the electrical system between the two cars of the SAME year are the SAME... the only time you do any special shit to the electrical system is when you start adding aftermarket bullshit... in otherwords, you can take an MSP ECU and plug the shit into any 2003 protege with a 2.0 engine and it'll work with NO issues as long as you have the stock turbo (and its related shit) installed... many have done it and it works

sure the MSP doesn't have cruise control (thus there's no wiring for it on the MSP), but wtf does that have anything to do with getting the engine to run? it's not needed and that's the ONLY difference in the MSP engine wiring harness and the P5 one


the MSP isn't some fancysmancy special car like the MSM and MS6 are... mazda just used off the shelf parts, put them on the car, shipped it here and had a turbo kit installed after the cars got off the boat... they didn't spend ANY money upgrading a damn thing in the engine or tranny other than the LSD and the shit needed for the turbo oil return line... in otherwords, when the MSP left the docks in japan, the only thing different under the hood was the radiator, intercooler, and the addition of an oil cooler... pratically speaking it was the same as all the normal proteges before the turbo got installed on our docks

[bazooka joe]

how many times do I have to tell you that there's no real difference between a non-turbo and turbo swap? the electrical system between the two cars of the SAME year are the SAME... the only time you do any special shit to the electrical system is when you start adding aftermarket bullshit... in otherwords, you can take an MSP ECU and plug the shit into any 2003 protege with a 2.0 engine and it'll work with NO issues as long as you have the stock turbo (and its related shit) installed... many have done it and it works

sure the MSP doesn't have cruise control (thus there's no wiring for it on the MSP), but wtf does that have anything to do with getting the engine to run? it's not needed and that's the ONLY difference in the MSP engine wiring harness and the P5 one


the MSP isn't some fancysmancy special car like the MSM and MS6 are... mazda just used off the shelf parts, put them on the car, shipped it here and had a turbo kit installed after the cars got off the boat... they didn't spend ANY money upgrading a damn thing in the engine or tranny other than the LSD and the shit needed for the turbo oil return line... in otherwords, when the MSP left the docks in japan, the only thing different under the hood was the radiator, intercooler, and the addition of an oil cooler... pratically speaking it was the same as all the normal proteges before the turbo got installed on our docks

you crack me up!!!

[NegatiZE]

What I meant by quick and easy install was the fact that the engine practically fell right in the bay with no problems.

All my wiring is 100% done. EVERY piece of wiring and the ECU in my car was swapped to 01+.

My car is essentially a 2002 Protege drivetrain with a 1999 chassis. The only thing left on my "to do list" as far as swapping goes is forking out the money for the 5-lug MSP braking system/ABS and the 01+ front subframe so I can have the additional lower brace on the car (which I can further upgrade to the GT Spec 4pt ladder brace.)

Anywho, good luck with the completing the swap.

[TheMAN]

the only other thing 99 in your car is the A/C system ;)

but yeah... the front crossmember, you had the chance to swap it when you had the parts car... so now you have to learn an expensive mistake... oh well

[gone_fishin]

the 99-00 radiators are different than the 01+ ones yes... this is because the core support is (obviously) different due to the different from facia

as far as the radiator brackets goes, the passenger side one will definately work, not sure about the driver's side one as mazda changed the intercooler design between the 99-00 turbo diesel models and the 01-03 turbo diesel models... yes, that's where the radiator and intercooler is from

Edwin, just look at the diagram I drew. I'm so sick of arguing with you. I can't make it any clearer. And unless the radiator sits crooked in the frame, which last time I checked it doesn't, the brackets need to be uni-level on both sides.

[TheMAN]

I'm talking about using the MSP radiator brackets... I know for sure the passenger side one will work

stop arguing with me, I know what'll work and what won't

[gone_fishin]

I'm talking about using the MSP radiator brackets... I know for sure the passenger side one will work

stop arguing with me, I know what'll work and what won't

you obviously don't read my posts thoroughly which would explain a lot of things. I previously said twice that I didn't have the msp radiator bracket or the msp smic bracket. go back and read

[fLyPiNoY7]

hmm...with all these problems trying to get the smic working, looks like im headed more toward just saying screw it and getting a fmic...

[gone_fishin]

Update on the build.

Today I finished up the brakes and flushing the system to drive the air out. Brake function was restored and the car was moved to one of the other bays to begin the electrical work.

For the remainder of the day it was just a lot of electrical diagnostics and computer pinning. With the wiring diagrams, the ECU map that I have and the measurements taken today, I ended the day basically planning what is going to be switched and soldered on monday. Everything under the hood is done, the brakes are done and the car is driveable. I took it for a test drive today and things ran without a hitch. Looks like everything is working perfectly. The only issues still to be fixed are the speedometer and tach wiring, and some various suspension work. The reverse lights aren't functioning but that will hopefully be resolved on monday with the speedometer and tach. All other lights and signals are working perfectly.
The build's almost complete!

Ended the day helping dan TIG weld the all tube chassis he's making for the world's fastest streetcar competition this year.

[gone_fishin]

hmm...with all these problems trying to get the smic working, looks like im headed more toward just saying screw it and getting a fmic...

do the FMIC if you can afford it right now. you should upgrade to an FMIC if it's possible for you to do so, so why buy the parts to accomodate the SMIC if you're planning on purchasing an FMIC relatively soon? Know what I mean-- it's just money and time wasted. If you decide to do the SMIC though you can pick up the rad and smic brackets at your local dealership, just make sure to get the msp condensor as well.

[TheMAN]

you obviously don't read my posts thoroughly which would explain a lot of things. I previously said twice that I didn't have the msp radiator bracket or the msp smic bracket. go back and read

I already know you don't have them... so I'm telling you to go get them
stop being a cheap ass and buy them from the dealer... they're CHEAP anyway

[gone_fishin]

Again, you didn't read my writeup. Did I not say that the machine shop was right next door to the shop and it took less than 30 mins to fabricate them? Why would I order them from the dealership? It's a 45 min drive to the closest dealer, 1.5 hours round trip. Or I could order them from the dealership and wait two-three days for them to arrive because that makes a whole lot of sense.

I had never instigated an arguement. All I do is respond to your ignorant comments so please just stop posting in my thread. You're ruining an otherwise good thread by cluttering it up with useless posts that contribute absolutely nothing in addition to wasting my time responding to your critical comments. If you want to start up a thread about the differences between the 99 and the rest of the proteges and argue with yourself about pointless shit for hours on end, be my guest. Just please don't do it here.

I'd like to keep this thread open for updates, feedback, questions, and meaningful discussion. If you're looking for a debate forum, do it elsewhere. You must have tons of friends if you act like this around people.

[fLyPiNoY7]

do the FMIC if you can afford it right now. you should upgrade to an FMIC if it's possible for you to do so, so why buy the parts to accomodate the SMIC if you're planning on purchasing an FMIC relatively soon? Know what I mean-- it's just money and time wasted. If you decide to do the SMIC though you can pick up the rad and smic brackets at your local dealership, just make sure to get the msp condensor as well.

yeah...the more i look at it, getting the msp condenser and all its related parts r gonna cost me a whole lot more than just getting a custom fmic and getting some pipes fabricated...oh well, i guess that means that theres gonna be an msp radiator/smic/hardpipes for sale soon...

[gone_fishin]

yeah...the more i look at it, getting the msp condenser and all its related parts r gonna cost me a whole lot more than just getting a custom fmic and getting some pipes fabricated...oh well, i guess that means that theres gonna be an msp radiator/smic/hardpipes for sale soon...

hardpipes? let me know when you get some pictures because I may be interested all right?

You might think twice though about getting rid of your msp rad, smic and hardpipes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but this is the way that I understood it: the FMIC kits designed for the msp are designed around the extra space freed up next to the rad after the SMIC is gone. So, turbo-to-FMIC and FMIC-to-TB pipes route through where the SMIC once sat. Universal protege FMIC kits (for a lot of the aftermarket setups) hug the wider rad with the turbo-to-FMIC pipe below the passenger side headlight and the FMIC-to-TB pipe below the driver side headlight.

You might find it easier to locate an FMIC kit or parts for the msp, but if you're doing custom work this might not apply to you. I guess it really comes down to preferance in which rad you want to use. To be honest I'm really not sure if one is truly superior over the other. While the msp rad is less wide, it is about half an inch thicker overall and about an inch taller, thus offering roughly comparable surface area for the fins. I don't know which is more efficient, however, if you're building a turbo motor it might be slightly safer to go with a rad that was factory designed to cool that specific turbo motor... know what I mean? Let me know what you decide.

[Rogue]

You might think twice though about getting rid of your msp rad, smic and hardpipes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but this is the way that I understood it: the FMIC kits designed for the msp are designed around the extra space freed up next to the rad after the SMIC is gone. So, turbo-to-FMIC and FMIC-to-TB pipes route through where the SMIC once sat. Universal protege FMIC kits (for a lot of the aftermarket setups) hug the wider rad with the turbo-to-FMIC pipe below the passenger side headlight and the FMIC-to-TB pipe below the driver side headlight. you're halfway right. depending on which FMIC kit you get will determine if it uses the MSP radiator or if you can switch to a larger Protege radiator.

You mentioned needing the MSP condensor. Is that because you're swapping it into a 99? Will it be the same for the 02? I'm doing a turbo setup in my P5 using some stock MSP parts. Info is in the sig.

[Blade4804]

he would need the msp condesor if he is going to use the msp radiator with the msp specific fmic, because the msp condesor is shorter. so the space where the SMIC will still be open. we just recently did an entire MSP Turbo kit swap into a P5.

[Rogue]

if i'm using the MSP radiator and a SMIC (turbohoses), will i need the MSP AC condensor, also?

[Blade4804]

yes, the stock one is too long. since the smic is wider than the radiator it stretches into the space where the stock radiator goes. the MSP one is shorter so the smic can fit.

[Rogue]

yes, the stock one is too long. since the smic is wider than the radiator it stretches into the space where the stock radiator goes. the MSP one is shorter so the smic can fit.at first i was confused, but went and looked at the MSP and P5 outside. now I get it. Those are pressurized, aren't they?

[Blade4804]

yes they are. freon and stuff. if you release the pressure yourself, make sure it's a ventilated area and you don't breath that stuff in, it can kill you. if you allready bought the stuff, you can intall the everything and than just install the msp condensor later, you'd just be running without AC for a bit.

Or just go with a FMIC. but if you do go with a FMIC on the P5 you will have to cut some holes into the frame for the pipes to and from the IC.

[fLyPiNoY7]

hardpipes? let me know when you get some pictures because I may be interested all right?

You might think twice though about getting rid of your msp rad, smic and hardpipes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but this is the way that I understood it: the FMIC kits designed for the msp are designed around the extra space freed up next to the rad after the SMIC is gone. So, turbo-to-FMIC and FMIC-to-TB pipes route through where the SMIC once sat. Universal protege FMIC kits (for a lot of the aftermarket setups) hug the wider rad with the turbo-to-FMIC pipe below the passenger side headlight and the FMIC-to-TB pipe below the driver side headlight.

You might find it easier to locate an FMIC kit or parts for the msp, but if you're doing custom work this might not apply to you. I guess it really comes down to preferance in which rad you want to use. To be honest I'm really not sure if one is truly superior over the other. While the msp rad is less wide, it is about half an inch thicker overall and about an inch taller, thus offering roughly comparable surface area for the fins. I don't know which is more efficient, however, if you're building a turbo motor it might be slightly safer to go with a rad that was factory designed to cool that specific turbo motor... know what I mean? Let me know what you decide.

yeah, i was thinking of just going custom piping around the radiator and such somewhat like the mam setup...but since it would take a while for me to order the setup from them, ill just have my exhaust shop fabricate them for me...as for the radiator, im sure it can handle the stresses of a turbo since there are a bunch of turboed p5s out there with no issues...

and yeah, ill post up pics of the hardpipe soon...all i have is the hotpipe though...

[Rogue]

yes they are. freon and stuff. if you release the pressure yourself, make sure it's a ventilated area and you don't breath that stuff in, it can kill you. if you allready bought the stuff, you can intall the everything and than just install the msp condensor later, you'd just be running without AC for a bit.

Or just go with a FMIC. but if you do go with a FMIC on the P5 you will have to cut some holes into the frame for the pipes to and from the IC.I can't run a FMIC because of the custom mount i did for my fog lamps.

I'll see if Mazmart has a AC condensor from an MSP.


edit - actually i know of a guy putting a FMIC on his MSP, maybe i can swap out AC condensors with him.

[Doodsmack]

awesome job i can only imagine how much effort that took. i did the turbo conversion alone on my ES not too long ago. got any more pics of the outside of the car? i'm assuming its totally sleeper since ur using the stock smic.

Have you had any fuel problems? I.E. not enough fuel being delivered at full throttle. i've been having this problem i think maybe the fuel pump isnt good enough.........but maybe the stock MSP one you have is a little better.

[Blade4804]

I can't run a FMIC because of the custom mount i did for my fog lamps.

I'll see if Mazmart has a AC condensor from an MSP.


edit - actually i know of a guy putting a FMIC on his MSP, maybe i can swap out AC condensors with him.

since your at it swap radiator and smic for your stock radiator too since the smic is connected to the msp radiator and he would need custom brackets if he removed it.

[gone_fishin]

About the AC condensor situation, this is the best way I can explain it. I drew up a rough diagram that is a bird's eye view of the engine bay. It's not to scale by any means but it gives you the idea.

The reason why the brackets would not fit between the 99 and the 03 msp can be seen in the diagrams in my earlier post.

[gone_fishin]

awesome job i can only imagine how much effort that took. i did the turbo conversion alone on my ES not too long ago. got any more pics of the outside of the car? i'm assuming its totally sleeper since ur using the stock smic.

Have you had any fuel problems? I.E. not enough fuel being delivered at full throttle. i've been having this problem i think maybe the fuel pump isnt good enough.........but maybe the stock MSP one you have is a little better.

No fuel problems thus far, but that is because I swapped out the 99 1.8 fuel pump with the 03 msp fuel pump. If you have the 1.8, you're having fuel problems because your fuel pump is being strained with an increased load it wasn't designed for-- anytime you add FI you're increasing the fuel demand substiantially.

Thanks for the compliments... again like an idiot I forgot my digicam on saturday, but I'll take some pictures for you all as soon as I can.

[Blade4804]

plus the radiator sits lower on the non turbo cars as to the turbo cars. I took pics of both to show the difference. I will upload them when i get a chance.

[fLyPiNoY7]

fyi...i found the part number for the msp condenser and looked online for the part...$343 for those interested...p/n: BP7H-61-480A

plus, u'll need to change the piping to the condenser as well since its smaller...

and the part numbers for the upper brackets for the radiator:

RF15-15-240

[fLyPiNoY7]

oh yeah, gone_fishin, heres my for sale thread for the hotpipe and a bunch of other stuff:
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123644530

[gone_fishin]

thanks flypinoy7. I can't do $150 for a hot pipe though. Good luck on the sell.


Doodsmack, where in PA are you located?

[nautical2086]

I see I have one hell of a project in front of me.

[gone_fishin]

wow, bump from the dead. I should really update post #1 with the completed project.

[steedspeed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gKV572OZM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0-09DXGJtQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQTbRfDwcHA

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=steedspeedturbo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[zoompastu]

(bump)

ok gone fishin what did you do to to get the speedo workin. I have a 00 es with abs and just bolted the msp tranny to my 1.8l. the tach works but of course the speedo dosen't since theres no vss. I tryed putting in a msp instrament cluster but that didn't change anything. thanks

[gone_fishin]

(bump)

ok gone fishin what did you do to to get the speedo workin. I have a 00 es with abs and just bolted the msp tranny to my 1.8l. the tach works but of course the speedo dosen't since theres no vss. I tryed putting in a msp instrament cluster but that didn't change anything. thanks

I'm really not familiar with the '00 ES ABS system because my ES never had it. With that said, the MSP measures speed via two hall-effect sensors that sit on the steering knuckle of the spindle; one on the driver side, and one on the passenger side. These hall effect sensors are essentially magnets that 'float' over the teeth below it (on the axle). When the teeth rotate past the sensor, they produce transient changes in the magenetic field, which produce electrical pulses with respect to time. These analog pulses get sent up through the harness and get converted to a digital signal elsewhere, which is read by the instrument cluster. This system generally works in conjunction with the ABS system.

Without ABS, the '00 ES measues speed by a worm-gear inside the transmission. There is a pink-colored plastic splining that causes this worm-gear to rotate, and the analog signal gets put out through the sending unit. Unless your '00 ES had the identical setup previously described on the MSP, it likely has the internal sending unit. If you're a glutton for punishment, you'll have to transfer the worm gear & sending unit to your MSP and retrofit the plastic gear over the differential. This will require machining of the inside of the plastic gear because its diameter is not large enough to fit. You will of course have to pull the tranny to do this, and you'll need the '00 ES instrument cluster to match.

To get the RPM signal from the MSP tranny on your '00 tach, look at your wiring and pinout diagram and tap the RPM signal wire from the ECU. You'll likely get a rough RPM signal now (for unknown reasons), but a resister designed to smooth out signals can be had at most auto-racing parts distributers.

Your other option is to retrofit the MSP hall effect sensors to the steering knuckles of your spindles with the harnesses running up to the MSP ABS console, and then to the MSP instrument cluster. That's likely the easiest thing to do.

[zoompastu]

thanks for the response. probably could have saved you some typing by telling you that I'm a BMW tech. my tach works fine. I wired the vss to a wss and I can do 160mph in 1st gear. so that didn't work. I got a kit for free to try useing magnets on the jack axle with a hall efect wired to the vss input. If I had a msp wiring diagram I could get the specific componets and make it work the factory way but I assume that i would need an msp ecu and I'm not turbo so that is a no go. I will probably pull the diff weld it and put in the vss gear set if all else fails. my shop is to busy for me to do that know though. If you have the msp wiring diagrams though I would be very greatful to look at them

[gone_fishin]

Yes I've got more wiring diagrams than I know what to do with. I've got the 3rd gen shop manual, a book of snap-on database wiring schematics for virtually all proteges, and the wiring appendex from the shop manual for the MSP.

It's just a matter of finding them. I cannot post them here, for copyright infringement reasons. I can, however, scan them and send them in e-mail. It will have to wait a little while though.

For now, reference what you need from here:

www.floptical.net/mazda

[gone_fishin]

awesome job i can only imagine how much effort that took. i did the turbo conversion alone on my ES not too long ago. got any more pics of the outside of the car? i'm assuming its totally sleeper since ur using the stock smic.

Have you had any fuel problems? I.E. not enough fuel being delivered at full throttle. i've been having this problem i think maybe the fuel pump isnt good enough.........but maybe the stock MSP one you have is a little better.

Funny that I just glanced at this post randomly. I've been hitting bad fuel-cut at WOT for quite some time now. I haven't even touched the boost, but with my modifications I'm probably overboosting by about 3 psi at least. Enough to blow the hotpipe off of the turbo-outlet, which has happened on a few occasions.

[gone_fishin]

I'm so sick of dumping money into this car, I really don't want to spend the cash on engine management even though I know I have to.