Mazdaspeed6 "Lack of power" Recall??

[jdub260]

I've been reading conflicting reports about this "fix". Some poeple say they don't notice any difference while other say it kills the performance of the car.

For those who have already had this:

Does the car feel slower/sluggish?

Does the car lose low end torque?

Any dyno numbers pre and post?

Any other general praises or complaints about this "fix"?

I'm just trying tofind out if I should try to refuse this recall or not. I'm taking the car in on Monday (8/7/06) for an oil change and tire rotation and I know this will come up. Any help will be appreciated thanks in advance.

[ChicagoKid]

I'm getting mine done this Saturday.

[06spd6owner]

I had it done and didn't notice that much of a change.

[jdub260]

Define:


that much of a change.

I Auto-X my MS6 and I'm running with the EVO's and STI's so any power loss will be a bad thing. I can't keep up as is (bang) so I don't want to make it worse if I don't have to.(shady)

[txrxs]

what class does the MS6 fall under?

[jcgemt2003]

I have also had it done and cant really feel a change.

[jdub260]

what class does the MS6 fall under?

Stock is DS

I fall in STU with the CAI and/or suspension mods that I am doing. The engine is too large to be in STX which is where I think the MS6 should be. But if you have an aftermarket BOV or a Boost Controller you will be in SM.

[Spool-N-Up]

I had my car flashed a month ago and it is worth it for sure...I had the whole knock sensing issue and lost a lot of power. What was bad was me just trying to show friends what it could do and it would fall on its face. My dealer is actually cool and had the guy sit in with me while driving and pointed out on my boost gauge how it dropped psi...got it flashed and boost held 1000000 x's better.

[TheMAN]

I've been reading conflicting reports about this "fix". Some poeple say they don't notice any difference while other say it kills the performance of the car.

For those who have already had this:

Does the car feel slower/sluggish?

Does the car lose low end torque?

Any dyno numbers pre and post?

Any other general praises or complaints about this "fix"?

I'm just trying tofind out if I should try to refuse this recall or not. I'm taking the car in on Monday (8/7/06) for an oil change and tire rotation and I know this will come up. Any help will be appreciated thanks in advance.

you won't be allowed to resell your car with an open recall

[MS6S2K]

you won't be allowed to resell your car with an open recall


This appears to be up to the owner, as some cars simply don't get these symptoms, and it may not do much on certain cars. I could be wrong, but I'm unsure if I'm even gonna bother with this unless they just do it without me saying anything, since my 06 doesn't seem to really have any issues. I know that on my old 04 RX8, they issued a reflash recall, yet the dealer never performed it when I took it in for service. I would have had to ask for it, and the bulletin was just like this one, but the reflash was for a different reason, mostly for flooding issues some owners had. Who knows. :)

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81981

[Nino Uvita]

I just did mine and I can tell the difference. The acceleration is smoother and the power is more consistent at all times. It is a different animal now....

[speedlouis]

I have question ! do you have a boost gauge ????? is it changing something on it ?? his the car hold 15.6 psi until 7000 rpm or not !!

i want more infos please

[Nino Uvita]

I do not have a booster gage :-( but I can tell you that after the fix the boost is more progressive and consistent at all times. I used to experience some roughness and power inconsistencies before the fix.

[TheMAN]

This appears to be up to the owner, as some cars simply don't get these symptoms, and it may not do much on certain cars. I could be wrong, but I'm unsure if I'm even gonna bother with this unless they just do it without me saying anything, since my 06 doesn't seem to really have any issues. I know that on my old 04 RX8, they issued a reflash recall, yet the dealer never performed it when I took it in for service. I would have had to ask for it, and the bulletin was just like this one, but the reflash was for a different reason, mostly for flooding issues some owners had. Who knows. :)

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81981

it's not "up to the owner"
I said you're not allowed to, and that's not what mazda says, it's what the government says

now of course there's a difference between not allowed to and getting away with it... you'll probably get away with selling the car without doing it but sooner or later someone will find out it wasn't done and it'll get done and it MAY come back to you for not doing it in the first place.... regardless, if you bring your car to the dealer to do ANYTHING, they'll go ahead and do the recall anyway because they're required to, unless your dealer is so shitty that they half ass lots of shit

[speedlouis]

ok somebody else did the flash i can confirm me whit a boost guauge what psi it give and by rpm !!!!

I DONT WHAT LOSE POWER !!

sorry dude i beleive you but i want see it anyway !!!

[smo0f]

ok somebody else did the flash i can confirm me whit a boost guauge what psi it give and by rpm !!!!

I DONT WHAT LOSE POWER !!

sorry dude i beleive you but i want see it anyway !!!


you should buy hooked on phonics and then sue the shit out of them

[stussy2870]

you should buy hooked on phonics and then sue the shit out of them


LOL--

Anyway.

I had the reflash done AFTER i dyno'd my car "just in case". Dyno Results are posted in this forum so i wont get into the numbers etct however...Regarding the car's overall fell. In my honest opinion, the car feel's exactly the same. I never experienced power-loss and couldnt honestly say that it fixed anything but thats not to say that it didnt.

in any case, car felt 100% normal/full power etc etc...as soon as i left the dealership.

I hope to do another Dyno but money is tight right now.

[speedlouis]

thanks man !

[trees]

LOL--

Anyway.

I had the reflash done AFTER i dyno'd my car "just in case". Dyno Results are posted in this forum so i wont get into the numbers etct however...Regarding the car's overall fell. In my honest opinion, the car feel's exactly the same. I never experienced power-loss and couldnt honestly say that it fixed anything but thats not to say that it didnt.

in any case, car felt 100% normal/full power etc etc...as soon as i left the dealership.

I hope to do another Dyno but money is tight right now.

Lets start chipping in.(group)

[dmitrik4]

it's not "up to the owner"
I said you're not allowed to, and that's not what mazda says, it's what the government says


which government...state or federal? if it's a state gov't thing, which state(s)? i've never heard of this law, so any actual info would be helpful.

[TheMAN]

I take it you haven't read the recall letters?
if you haven't heard of such a state law than its obviously a FEDERAL law

[dmitrik4]

I take it you haven't read the recall letters?
if you haven't heard of such a state law than its obviously a FEDERAL law
1. i've never had a car recalled.
2. why would it "obviously" be a federal law? i've never heard of this law *period*, and i was asking in good faith for you to point me to the source of your information. if you can't, then just say so, b/c that response was zero help.

[TheMAN]

if you have read the recall letter then you would see clearly in bolded letters that it is against federal law to sell a vehicle with an open recall

not addressing a recall is a violation of the tort laws... here's an extreme example of one http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=94&did=778

[dmitrik4]

i'd be interested in seeing the letter. it seems incongruous to charge someone with a violation of a law for failing to address a recall they reasonably might not have known about (aren't recall letters sent via regular, not certified, mail?).

that article seems to refer only to a dealer's responsibility; dealers are held to a higher standard of care than individual resellers. it also seems to draw a distinction between situations in which the seller knows or should know the recalled product is dangerous and fails to reasonably inform the buyer of the danger, and those situations where the open recall does not render the product dangerous. in the former, the seller might incur liability for the buyer's resulting injuries; in the latter, that outcome doesn't necessarily follow.

also, there's a difference between a prohibited sale and a seller's subsequent liability for the consequences of an uncompleted recall. a seller might be liable for injuries to a buyer resulting from the seller's failure to exercise reasonable care, but that would not bar the actual sale itself. the article deals with the dealers' liability for the buyers' injuries, not with the legality of any sales.

all that said, i agree that people should just get the recall done and quit trying to outsmart the mazda engineers. even if it does cost a few hp, what difference does it make? these are road cars, not F1 racers.

[DSpec]

For those who have already had this:

Does the car feel slower/sluggish?

Does the car lose low end torque?

Any dyno numbers pre and post?

Any other general praises or complaints about this "fix"?


1. Yes. The Speed 6 feels slower. Confirmed by my wife who drove it as well.
2. Torque seems to be down throughout the powerband. (Sixth gear acceleration while cruising at 50 mph is literally not there. Prior to the reflash, there seemed to be torque everywhere.)
3. UNfortauntely, no all wheel drive dynos where I live.
4. Gas mileage is worse.

[Bigg Tim]

For those who have already had this:

Does the car feel slower/sluggish?

Does the car lose low end torque?

Any dyno numbers pre and post?

Any other general praises or complaints about this "fix"?


1. Yes. The Speed 6 feels slower. Confirmed by my wife who drove it as well.
2. Torque seems to be down throughout the powerband. (Sixth gear acceleration while cruising at 50 mph is literally not there. Prior to the reflash, there seemed to be torque everywhere.)
3. UNfortauntely, no all wheel drive dynos where I live.
4. Gas mileage is worse.

I just dyno'd mine after I put on a 3" exhaust and it didn't make much more power. You can see on the dyno that I did not maintain as much boost for as long as I did pre-flash. The car fealt much better after the flash though and it feels even stronger now with the exhaust. I did notice that I do not maintain 15psi as long, it seems to want to go to 12-13psi pretty quick after I hit 15psi.

[hockey]

After the reflash, I noticed a significant loss of power. The turbo does not seem to be kicking in at all, the engine seems like a naturally aspirated engine.

[bigmixx]

I was at the dealership yesterday getting my car detailed because they did a shitty job when I bought it and a sales guy comes up to me and asks me if I had the turbo on my car "serviced" yet. I said no. He then says that I should set an appointment to have it "serviced". I'm guessing he must be referring to this flash update. After reading these posts I'm not so sure I want to.

[jdub260]

I was at the dealership yesterday getting my car detailed because they did a shitty job when I bought it and a sales guy comes up to me and asks me if I had the turbo on my car "serviced" yet. I said no. He then says that I should set an appointment to have it "serviced". I'm guessing he must be referring to this flash update. After reading these posts I'm not so sure I want to.

Call him and ask him what exactly does "Serviced" mean?? He might just be talking about you first scheduled oil change/tire rotation and stuff like that. The turbo itself does not need service.

[bigmixx]

I called him back and he said that it was a "tune-up" for the turbo. He said that they do it on all new speed 6's after once they're past the break-in period of about 500-600 miles. He definitely wasn't referring to the first oil-change/tire rotation.

[ChicagoKid]

a "tune-up" for the turbo. He said that they do it on all new speed 6's after once they're past the break-in period of about 500-600 miles.

What exactly is this service? My dealer didn't mention this to me. What do they have to do???

I have another appt to get the reflash done again. I'll ask about this.

[Nino Uvita]

Be careful, there is not such maintenance scheduled on the Owners Manual. I can tell you by experience that some dealerships come up with procedures that are not specify by the OEMs, but they offer it to make some additional money.

(shocked)

[Bu11dogg2]

heat soak FTL

[bigmixx]

What exactly is this service? My dealer didn't mention this to me. What do they have to do???

I have another appt to get the reflash done again. I'll ask about this.

My guess is that he is just referring to this flash. I figure he just didn't want to say there could be a problem with your brand new $28,000 car that causes a loss of power.

[Nino Uvita]

What is FTL?

[WaxiP5]

For
The
Lose

[ns80]

I have a post explaining what I experienced after the flash in the main forum post on this topic, so in summary I'll just say it sucks. It did seem to cure the intermittent power loss issue I experienced, but it killed top end acceleration. I'm trying to get the dealer to reflash with the old version, but I doubt they will. In any case I'm going to contact Mazda and make some noise about this. If I could do it over I would definitely skip the flash until they absolutely required me to get it.

[speedlouis]

hi somebody dyno after the flash ???

[hockey]

Yes, I am not happy with my reflash either. I brought it in again, and they did another reflash last week. Still from the seat of my pants, the power is not there. Yes, the hesitation problem is gone, but the turbo power is far reduced. I'm wondering if the reflash has pulled a couple of psi out of the boost. I'd sure like to get a dyno to confirm the power, because it does not seem like I'm driving a turbo car with 274 HP.

[Boosted24]

Hockey my speed6 is doing the same thing it seems to me that the turbo is spooling later

[rusharp]

Hockey my speed6 is doing the same thing it seems to me that the turbo is spooling later


Same here....Sucks the big one too...So where do we go from here??

This isn't the car I bought..not happy.

[mazspd6]

I am having issues with the turbo stumbling right now, sometimes it doesn't seem to even spool up at all and then today I got on it and it dropped out totally and knocked hard for a second so I quickly got out of it and then got back on the gas and picked back up...going to get it reflashed tomorrow and hopefully it turns out for the best.(bang)

[Boosted24]

Same here....Sucks the big one too...So where do we go from here??

This isn't the car I bought..not happy.



Yea I agree I had the car about 3 weeks before I got that recall notice the car was INSANE before the flash and now its fast but not the car I bought

[Alfredo]

So I got like 300 miles, what should I look for?
I feel that the car loses pwer after 4500rpm, is that normal? I am coming from an STI which never lost power. I know it is not the same car, but is it still normal afterall....

[buit9110]

So I got like 300 miles, what should I look for?
I feel that the car loses pwer after 4500rpm, is that normal? I am coming from an STI which never lost power. I know it is not the same car, but is it still normal afterall....

if you see that the tach is going slower that usual after 4500 then it prob has the powerloss, i got the reflash done and it i still get the powerloss sometimes.

[Runningriot]

I test drove a 2007 before I bought my non-reflashed 2006 and the 2007 seemed identical to my 2006. So I'm taking the plunge and having them update it. I'll let you know how it works out.

[protegeV]

I don;t know that ALL recalls are required by federal law. There are five types of recalls:
Emissions
Safety
Special Policy
FMVSS Non-compliance
Customer Satisfaction
obviously the emissions, safety, and fmvss non-comliance are necessary, but the special policy and customer satisfaction recalls are usually just to make the customer happy and do not neccessarily address any type of safety of legal concern.
It sounds like this reflash probably falls into the emissions category though, so it probably is required. But since 99% of people will trade their ms6 in rather than selling it outright, it would then be up to the dealer to reflash it. But I think you probably CAN refuse the reflash if so compelled.

[ghettospeed]

Although I am just speculating, it seems like Mazda has a bad bad habit of making the accell enrichment waaaayyy too rich. Even on the 2.3 SVOs from the 80s, they ran absolutely pig rich. On my other car with a standalone, I can simulate the way the MS6 feels by cranking up the AE. What happens is the fueling spikes, the cylinders run super rich, which causes spark misfire, which then looks lean to the ecu, which triggers yet another reaction. This feels like knock, but its not. Its rich misfire. Same thing the rx8 suffered from.

BUT, if you are going to do ANY airflow mods in the near future (downpipe, exhaust, CAI, FMIC) I would think it would be a bad idea to update. That extra fuel will be critical in dealing with the extra airflow. AE is usually a set amount and you can flow more air to match the overly rich condition, but you can't add AE later.

Its sorta a catch 22 I guess.

Only real way to see whats happening is to run a wb02 and datalog a before and after, then I could really nail it down. When I get my wb02 in I will try to get some baselines, then someone else can do the readings on a reflashed ecu and compare.

[ZUZOOM]

What exactly is this service? My dealer didn't mention this to me. What do they have to do???

I have another appt to get the reflash done again. I'll ask about this.


My dealer mentions that at time of purchase.. They said the first service would be around $80 for the turbo service. Already took the car in for the oil change and tire rotation and nothing was mentioned. I wonder how true this is.

Should I get the flash done. No problems yet. Not expecting any mods in the near future.

[stirob]

My dealer mentions that at time of purchase.. They said the first service would be around $80 for the turbo service. Already took the car in for the oil change and tire rotation and nothing was mentioned. I wonder how true this is.

Should I get the flash done. No problems yet. Not expecting any mods in the near future.

Ive owned 3 turbo'd cars and Ive never heard of such a thing. Turbos are oil cooled or oil and water cooled. Every time you get an oil change you are somewhat servicing the turbo also. These dam dealers what will they come up with next.