I give up are there any MS6 ECU mod's out there!!!! [Archive]

View Full Version : I give up are there any MS6 ECU mod's out there!!!!

jdub260

07-07-2006, 01:16 PM

I've been looking for days and the only chip I can find is the unichip. (http://www.unichip.us)

Has anybody found any Chips/Programmers/Computers for the MS6 or are there any in progress to report about.

MS6freek

07-07-2006, 02:08 PM

NO NOTHING MAN, but what exacly are you looking into doing to your car???

jdub260

07-07-2006, 02:29 PM

MS6freek

07-07-2006, 04:18 PM

buit9110

07-08-2006, 12:11 AM

where did you get the fuel cut defender?

jcgemt2003

07-08-2006, 01:28 AM

ok cool . u can start off by putting a boost controler, im at 20 psi and i even added a fuel cut defender and it works great . i put the sportline eibach they are very good. the ECU upgrade i will wait till they come out with something good. and the downpipe i cant stop waiting . i want it (ughdance)
Whats your 1/4 mile time with 20psi? and can you tell a real differance in performance? Dynoed?

MS6freek

07-10-2006, 11:07 AM

where did you get the fuel cut defender?

turbosmart.

MS6freek

07-10-2006, 11:09 AM

Whats your 1/4 mile time with 20psi? and can you tell a real differance in performance? Dynoed?

never tried at 20psi at the track. yes there is a really big difference. but i usuallu keep it at 17 for the daily drive, but it stays at 16-17psi all the way to 7k rpm so it is very good. and no i didnt went on the dyno with it.

Wiggum

07-10-2006, 06:05 PM

1) CP-E Turbo Back System (When they get it ready)
2) ECU Upgrade
3) Eibach SportLine Springs (and some Camber Plates)(maybe new shocks and struts)(and new brake pads probably hawk)
4) Wheels and Tires

A BOV may land in there somewhere but right now I don't think so.
Money is the limiting factor....as always.

You are starting in the COMPLETE wrong place...

1. Eibach springs are crapp, they are designed for the regular 6 and your car is actually going to handle worse... remember the MS6 is 500 pounds heavier than the Mazda 6i which they were intended for....

2. There are no camber plates for the MS6 and there never will be, this is not that type of suspension.... rear camber is already adjustable, and front can only be adjusted with some custom adjustable a-arms (there should be some of these made soon...

For the ECU upgrade, yes it will definately help, can't disagree with you there, I have heard UniChip has a Speed6 ready for tuning...

Adding a Boost controller giving 19-20 PSI to redline has been done, I can't deny that, but if you look at the flow charts of the exact turbo from Borg Warner you are taking the turbo completely out of its efficiency and in some cases make actually be LOSING power...

My ideas for you :)

1. The CP-E turboback is a great idea, I can't wait to get a catless one, but once again we need some tuning...
2. The only springs designed for the Speed6 that are actually decent are the AutoEXE springs, member Fedinand has them...
3. Wheels and tires help any car, I have 18x8 RX8 wheels on mine with 235/40/18 Falken Azenis and the car drives very well...

Not sure if you have an intake yet but that is definately the first place to start, second only to a good boost gauge... an essential in any forced induction application...

MS6freek

07-11-2006, 11:01 AM

You are starting in the COMPLETE wrong place...

1. Eibach springs are crapp, they are designed for the regular 6 and your car is actually going to handle worse... remember the MS6 is 500 pounds heavier than the Mazda 6i which they were intended for....

2. There are no camber plates for the MS6 and there never will be, this is not that type of suspension.... rear camber is already adjustable, and front can only be adjusted with some custom adjustable a-arms (there should be some of these made soon...

For the ECU upgrade, yes it will definately help, can't disagree with you there, I have heard UniChip has a Speed6 ready for tuning...

Adding a Boost controller giving 19-20 PSI to redline has been done, I can't deny that, but if you look at the flow charts of the exact turbo from Borg Warner you are taking the turbo completely out of its efficiency and in some cases make actually be LOSING power...

My ideas for you :)

1. The CP-E turboback is a great idea, I can't wait to get a catless one, but once again we need some tuning...
2. The only springs designed for the Speed6 that are actually decent are the AutoEXE springs, member Fedinand has them...
3. Wheels and tires help any car, I have 18x8 RX8 wheels on mine with 235/40/18 Falken Azenis and the car drives very well...

Not sure if you have an intake yet but that is definately the first place to start, second only to a good boost gauge... an essential in any forced induction application...

ok my friend , let me tell you. i have the eibach suspension and the handling is amazing and YES they are for the mazdaspeed 6. my car is dropped 2 inch. i have my car with a turbosmart boost controller at 17-18 psi daily drive till 7000rpm and let me tell you that the turbo is pushing till the end . u dont feel no power loss like in the stock boost that falls at 5500rpm.

u are right about the camber kits and stuff , but to start off for a good budget , a cold air intake , manual boost controller , exhaust cutout (if you wanna keep your ride quite on the street and loud at the track)

Wiggum

07-11-2006, 05:22 PM

ok my friend , let me tell you. i have the eibach suspension and the handling is amazing and YES they are for the mazdaspeed 6. my car is dropped 2 inch. i have my car with a turbosmart boost controller at 17-18 psi daily drive till 7000rpm and let me tell you that the turbo is pushing till the end . u dont feel no power loss like in the stock boost that falls at 5500rpm.

u are right about the camber kits and stuff , but to start off for a good budget , a cold air intake , manual boost controller , exhaust cutout (if you wanna keep your ride quite on the street and loud at the track)

Let me tell you something my friend...

EIBACH THEMSELVES SAID ALL THEY DID FOR THE MAZDASPEED6 SPRINGS WAS USE THE REGULAR SPRINGS...

They are not appropriate at all for the car, they do not take into account the weight added to the rear, and will eat you stock shocks in less than 10K miles from riding on bump stops...

I NEVER SAID THE TURBO COULD NOT GO TO 7000 RPM's.... all I said was Borg-Warner and anyone else with any turbocharger experience will tell you its a HORRIBLE idea and you are doing more damage than good...

There is a reason the PCM opens the wastegate at such an early RPM, Mazda knows the turbo WILL have problems...

BlueSolrac

07-11-2006, 06:29 PM

ok my friend , let me tell you. i have the eibach suspension and the handling is amazing and YES they are for the mazdaspeed 6.

Wiggum is right. It has already been discussed. Check out ********** for more info.

MS6freek

07-11-2006, 08:43 PM

Wiggum is right. It has already been discussed. Check out ********** for more info.

im not saying that you are wrong but i have them on my car and they are great the springs. and if the shock dies then warranty here i come ;)!! when u are friends with the owner of a mazda dealership u can do and try alot of stuff on the car. i will go and dyno my car for what u are saying about the turbo. its been 7 years that i drive turbo modified cars.
rx-7 twin turbo 93 . protege 5 turbo(gt28rs) / nitro , and now mazdaspeed 6

i believe what you say is good for the safety because when they made that car the new that more mature people will buy it like in the 40's plus so imagine the boost pushing all the way till 7000k !!! u guys have to think about the confort of the car . it cannot be brutal stock , they have to make some sort of smoothness. u guys should try it!! a boost controller is not even a 100$ and install is another 100$ at the most. u will believe me then!!
i will even tell u how to install it

VinnieBeachbum

07-11-2006, 09:00 PM

Word on the street is also Hydra is making a ecu for the MS6

Wiggum

07-12-2006, 07:10 AM

im not saying that you are wrong but i have them on my car and they are great the springs. and if the shock dies then warranty here i come ;)!! when u are friends with the owner of a mazda dealership u can do and try alot of stuff on the car. i will go and dyno my car for what u are saying about the turbo. its been 7 years that i drive turbo modified cars.
rx-7 twin turbo 93 . protege 5 turbo(gt28rs) / nitro , and now mazdaspeed 6

i believe what you say is good for the safety because when they made that car the new that more mature people will buy it like in the 40's plus so imagine the boost pushing all the way till 7000k !!! u guys have to think about the confort of the car . it cannot be brutal stock , they have to make some sort of smoothness. u guys should try it!! a boost controller is not even a 100$ and install is another 100$ at the most. u will believe me then!!
i will even tell u how to install it

First off, there is not a single company on gods green earth that will warranty shock wear over an extended period of time due to lowering springs, I don't care who you know they have to send it into Mazda... who also reads all these boards...

If you have been into turbo's for a long time then you know what a flow chart looks like...

This is taken from another member on **********...

If you plot a K04 map on stock MS6 boost the turbo is already godawful close to the choke line. A few psi more and you will stall the compressor. The turbo will create buttloads of turbulence and heat and you will most likely loose horsepower.

ACTUAL compressor map for a K04 turbo.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/TurboMaps/k04-0025.jpg

Pressure ratio is calclulated by Absolute pressure/Atmospheric Pressure or 15.7 PSI+ 14.7 PSI/14.7 PSI

CFM need is...

CFM = (L x RPM x VE x Pr)/5660

CFM= (2.3 x 6500 x 90 x 2.068)/ 5660

CFM= 491.6

This is the minimum the turbo must flow with an engine with a 90% VE to HOLD 15.7 PSI to 6500 RPM.

As you can see at a pressure ratio of 2.068 the turbo is RIGHT on the edge of its efficency.

The MAXIMUM this turbo can flow at a pressure ratio of 2.068 is at the right hand upper edge of the map. Which just happens to be... 0.175 cubic meters a second. This converts into around 371 CFM.

Now we have already calculated the CFM needed to hold 15.7 PSI to redline. Thats 491.6 CFM at a 90% VE. This converts to 0.2320 cubic meters a second. This happens to be COMPLETELY off the chart and unattinable for this particular turbo.

This turbo is what we term Maxed Out. It is pretty close to being maxed out from the factory... No matter what you do it will NEVER efficently support 15.7 PSI at 6500 RPM.

The car requires 491.6 CFM.... the turbo makes 371 CFM...

Facts don't lie...

MS6freek

07-12-2006, 11:08 AM

Wiggum

07-12-2006, 11:22 AM

OK man . im lying !!!! (first)

why dont you try it and then come back and talk to me. u show me numbers , i show u a real fact that it is working.. the turbo is not maxed out. why dont you call mazda USA and ask them the turbo is good till what psi??
i did and they said 25psi!! (rtfm) so please !! it is not an expensive mod try it
The turbo is good for 30 PSI if you want... that doesn't mean its being efficient...

Once AGAIN... I NEVER SAID IT WOULD NOT WORK, but if you took a larger turbocharger (Like a GT28RS) and ran the EXACT same PSI on your car it WILL make more power and run more efficiently...

And once again Mazda North American IS NEVER going to encourage their owners to "up the boost" on any of their cars.... EVER....

Edit: I found your post...

i called mazda canada and i talked to the guy that went and did the course for the mazdaspeed 6 and he told me that the engin is perfectly good for 25psi no problem. it is completly forged .
so 20 psi wont kill it

WHERE IN WHAT MAZDA CANADA DID THEY SAY "The turbocharger is good for 25 PSI at 6500 RPM's on the Mazdaspeed6...

They didn't... and do you know why... because you are LOSING power...

Listen you can do whatever you want to your car, but your ignorance is going to catch up with you when you have broken parts and a turbo split in half, PERIOD.

Wiggum

07-12-2006, 11:39 AM

Thought of an easy way to explain it to you....

Why don't you rev your car till 8K rpms??

AWD6

07-12-2006, 12:29 PM

so...anyone hear of a larger turbo kit, haha

jdub260

07-12-2006, 12:55 PM

I think this thread has been....(jacked)

Wiggum

07-12-2006, 01:03 PM

I think this thread has been....(jacked)

Jacked for your vehicles safety of listening to BAD advice..

Here is how the thread will end..

Wiggum: Why don't you rev your car till 8K??
P5Freek: Because it wasn't meant to be reved till 8K and its not good for it
Wiggum: But I called Mazda and they said with forged internals I could safely spin 10,000 RPMS..
P5Freek: BS
Wiggum: I know, and finally you know why no one punishes the K04 like you do..

Just because the engine revs till 8k doesn't mean it was meant to be done, as is spooling the K04 to 18 PSI at 6500 RPMS on a Mazdaspeed6...

SpeedBeaver

07-12-2006, 01:19 PM

p5freek, I think it's time for you to buy "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. That's the best 35$ cnd I spent in a while.

Wiggum is right, from what you can read from the turbo compressor map the turbo is nearly maxed out at stock. Ok upping the boost might give you an increase of power but it won't be efficient. Even if the MS6 engine is good for 25psi, the stock turbo won't be able to push passed a certain point and it will just max out. Plus you might just blow up your turbo with all of the extra heat and stress you'll be putting on it.

Same thing applies for MSPs, even if we get a fully forged block the stock T25 is maxed out at ±15psi. The same reasonning applies.

MS6freek

07-12-2006, 04:05 PM

Thought of an easy way to explain it to you....

Why don't you rev your car till 8K rpms??

ok i think that we better stop now because this is not going anywhere!!!!
every think i say that i do on my car you guys object itby saying it is no good. well im not scared to try stuff and it works, i dont have problem with the warranty. i even show u guys videos and stuff. i guess i will have to dyno my car to see if im wrong or right(rtfm)

doogie

07-12-2006, 05:03 PM

Ok let me make it simple. The back housing for the K04 is too small to accomodate the cfm for the amount of boost (pressure/volume) above the compressor map (turbine speed efficiency). What happens then is that this creates a stall and then backpressure reversion (hot gasses being forced back into the cumbustion chamber) which causes detonation. What you should do is check (monitor) your egt's under dynamic load while the car is in motion (wot 4th gear and higher).

A GT3063R would be perfect fit for the package @ 15 psi you would be making about 350-400 whp with a good tune (injector upgrade). My .02(peep)

Rainman

07-13-2006, 08:06 AM

doogie

07-13-2006, 10:55 AM

Before this thing gets really personal, lets just agree to disagree. I don't think that any amount of factual knowledge will convince our MTL-based colleague of the disadvantages of pushing the turbo past its point of efficiency. Suffice it to say, he feels good about his car and the changes that he has made. Others are not so sure about the wisdom of these changes (did I mention that I'm waiting for a "MS6 B__m" thread?).

Lets keep this thread on track please. Friends don't let friends threadjack.

Thanks,
R

The only way it could be personal is if he has little faith in what he has done. Points expressed here by me and some others, are some what of an educated one. He can take it or leave it, however a smart person would just simply look further than what he pretends to know. If some one dosent want other opinions about a particular action then dont post it on a public forum. Look this is mairly a debate based on the praticality of wether the changes done are worth it. Base on an opnion by some it apparently isnt. Bottom line is that the guy that drops the cheese is what really counts. These "suggestions" are just food for thought nothing more. Keep in mind when there is a KABOOM, KABOOM he will have no one to blame but himself.....some people just like it that way.

Suspension wise and again this is just an opinion is a matter of taste in my mind because unless he in competition where corner balance and spring rates really counts then it would be like me saying a coil over suspension system is better than the OEM parts when it is really your moms/dads ride which is used to get groceries and go to work.....So be it...:)

MS6freek

07-13-2006, 01:27 PM

The only way it could be personal is if he has little faith in what he has done. Points expressed here by me and some others, are some what of an educated one. He can take it or leave it, however a smart person would just simply look further than what he pretends to know. If some one dosent want other opinions about a particular action then dont post it on a public forum. Look this is mairly a debate based on the praticality of wether the changes done are worth it. Base on an opnion by some it apparently isnt. Bottom line is that the guy that drops the cheese is what really counts. These "suggestions" are just food for thought nothing more. Keep in mind when there is a KABOOM, KABOOM he will have no one to blame but himself.....some people just like it that way.

Suspension wise and again this is just an opinion is a matter of taste in my mind because unless he in competition where corner balance and spring rates really counts then it would be like me saying a coil over suspension system is better than the OEM parts when it is really your moms/dads ride which is used to get groceries and go to work.....So be it...:)

im really not taking this personal my friend. i am listening to what you guys are saying !!! im not gonna start crying because u guys dont aprouve of what im doing. im just here to show you what im doing.

doogie

07-13-2006, 03:20 PM

Cool, I do realize that..;)

JDM Sam

07-19-2006, 08:02 PM

Read this instead.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/tech_center/tech_103/tech103.gif

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html

MS6freek

07-19-2006, 11:12 PM

Read this instead.

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/images/tech_center/tech_103/tech103.gif

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech103.html

it would be better if you can show us a VIDEO that shows that it doesnt work!!! i showed that it does work.

buit9110

07-19-2006, 11:18 PM

how do you set the boost so that it holds up to redline?

4DRHTRD

07-20-2006, 01:54 AM

it would be better if you can show us a VIDEO that shows that it doesnt work!!! i showed that it does work.
Take your car to the dyno or do a road run with a scanner attached and read the IAT sensor to show what you're doing. You should also record knock count as I'm sure it's incrementing with the extremely hot hair you're pushing out the turbo and into the engine.
Mike

JDM Sam

07-20-2006, 03:00 AM

it would be better if you can show us a VIDEO that shows that it doesnt work!!! i showed that it does work.

That was meant for people who couldn't understand the stuff above and it goes into detail. I dont care about you two's argument. I posted for reference for anyone who was reading this and wanted to learn.

MS6freek

07-20-2006, 10:12 AM

That was meant for people who couldn't understand the stuff above and it goes into detail. I dont care about you two's argument. I posted for reference for anyone who was reading this and wanted to learn.

ok i see , thanks for the info

SpeedBeaver

07-20-2006, 10:35 AM

ok i see , thanks for the info
Are you planning on going to the Julep soon? I saw your car last friday but I couldn't find you. It would be nice to have a little chat.

MS6freek

07-20-2006, 12:30 PM

Are you planning on going to the Julep soon? I saw your car last friday but I couldn't find you. It would be nice to have a little chat.

yeh i will go friday