Turbo is fucked! take a look

[sweetlou69]

so today me and my accomplice tony aka terbow started pullin my engine ba. we foundy a few holes in the block and pieces rods. we also noticed the turbo is faacked..what coulda caused this and wheres a good spot to get this rebuilt?

[gimpo2]

looks like it was rubbin on something

[smo0f]

your motor blew?

[jflo]

it's gotta be more than just something. the entire length of those blades are fucked up, but the other set isn't. it looks like something was sucked in to there and couldn't pass through the blades so it kept grinding them.

[EvoMR]

Looks like someone tried porting and clipping the turbo and instead rubbed a dremmel along the blades... Doesn't even resemble compressor surge so boggles my mind.

[snowblazin]

so today me and my accomplice tony aka terbow started pullin my engine ba. we foundy a few holes in the block and pieces rods. we also noticed the turbo is faacked..what coulda caused this and wheres a good spot to get this rebuilt?
Damn dude, hey if you need a new engine, Chris aka neversober is tryin to get rid of his stock block out of his old speed. I'll link him to this thread for ya.

[sweetlou69]

ya motor is blown..blew at about 7psi.. and ive already got a motor from ken..but ya me and tony werent positive what casued it..the fans on the intake side are fucked but on the outlet/IC side they are fine..i checked my air filter adn there were no holes or anything suspicious

[tricky]

ouch, my condolences. now that you have an excuse why not go for a GT28?

[terbow]

the inlet has a bunch of dings, im guessing something got in there and couldnt pass and tore shit up like it was 1999

[Jeph]

Huh, at first look i would've asked what kind of filter you were using. But if the outlet fins to the IC are ok then i'm baffled...

[Kansei]

Wow how did something like that happen on the intake side? ouch that's crazy.

[onequickmsp]

How did you blow your engine? Over boost?

[terbow]

Wow how did something like that happen on the intake side? ouch that's crazy.

something got into the intake path.

[terbow]

How did you blow your engine? Over boost?

wont know till we rip the block apart but there was no detonation on the plugs (tune was good)

[onequickmsp]

that suxs!! My condolences.

[ChopstickHero]

something got into the intake path.

yeah, that's what i'm thinking... and because the turbo spins so quickly, it just grinded whatever was in there. were you doing any installs that could've dropped a bolt or nut into the intake??

[KzA]

maybe whatever was getting ground up by the turbine finally got small enough to get into the block and cause some major damage..Do you have any pics of your engine bay? I just wanna see what your piping looks\looked like...

[Spooled]

Damn, time for a new air filter. Looks like a rock got in there. That's a bad way to go. Sorry to see that.

[Spooled]

maybe whatever was getting ground up by the turbine finally got small enough to get into the block and cause some major damage..Do you have any pics of your engine bay? I just wanna see what your piping looks\looked like...

Not only that, but those pieces of the turbine probably didn't help.

[Jeph]

I remember the first kit i bought, i had to get a new turbo because the compressor wheel got fuct by a cheap HKS type filter, and the metal part of that filter fell apart, and flew into the compressor wheel, and then into the engine.
What baffles me is only one side of his wheel is messed up, the other side isn't...

[zzMSP03.5]

looks like something i would see in my nightmares! :eek:

Yea im kinda thinking about doing that myself... i have had nothing but issues since i have installed the unichip and i am still getting beat... i want a faster msp crazy sleeper.... just have to come up with the dough...

[tekkie]

wow, you know that thing is not for disposing of trees right?

something fell in there for sure by the look of it, maybe a screw or something from your intake?

that reallys sucks ass man :(

[Witchdoktor]

do an autopsy on the turbo, block, etc.

[EvoMR]

The tune was good? The car happened to blow up as soon as it was "tuned", what was the A/F and timing throughout the tune at? The motor sounds like it hit a lean spot or something.

[Hellnightkid]

Blew engine, Fucked Turbo.......sorry to hear that...

[altspace]

Doh! Not coming to the meet then?

[smo0f]

you didnt hear any noises while this was happening?

[terbow]

The tune was good? The car happened to blow up as soon as it was "tuned", what was the A/F and timing throughout the tune at? The motor sounds like it hit a lean spot or something.

tune was fine, i checked the plugs, no detonation what so ever. plus no audible knocking so if it was bad enough to blow it the engine the plugs would show something. plus i tuned it rich, he was at 10.5 @ wot before the lsd blew.

and no it hadnt blown up as soon as it was "tuned". its been on a rich tune for a while that he didnt get fixed. on top of that the day the lsd broke i checked his turbo for shaft play to make sure all was well. his turbo was fine, then the lsd blew, and when he got it back the engine blew within 24 hrs. so after leaving the tranny shop, within 24 hrs the turbo was chopped to bits (filter has no holes and intake tract was sealed when I left it) and the engine blew. on top of that his wg line had a hole...so yea must be the tune...:rolleyes:

[505zoom]

Damage like that is possible JUST from the blown motor... at least in my mind it is. That damage looks to me like like it came from the shaft/compressor blades being pushed (out toward the intake) into the compressor housing. It would not be the first time that somebody lost their turbo due to a popping motor.

Just a thought... I don't think that anything got in there to chew those blades up.

[terbow]

you didnt hear any noises while this was happening?

sweetlou wasnt in the car when it happened. so this cant be answered technically.

[terbow]

Damage like that is possible JUST from the blown motor... at least in my mind it is. That damage looks to me like like it came from the shaft/compressor blades being pushed (out toward the intake) into the compressor housing. It would not be the first time that somebody lost their turbo due to a popping motor.

Just a thought... I don't think that anything got in there to chew those blades up.

so when a rod goes it has enough force to come back through the intake, though a maf (on presure side), fmic and back to the turbo and blow a compressor wheel, all without losing any pressure with a hole in the block? i dont get it, just seems impossible to me. hes got pits all inside the intake of the turbo...like something was jingling around.

[smo0f]

that sucks. well, when my motor blew, the dealership wanted to change out my motor and turbo, even when the turbo turned out to be fine. so maybe it's expected that when an engine goes, the turbo goes too due to debris?

[terbow]

yea i was asking, i dont know personally, just seems kinda crazy to come back all through that, not damage the ic at all and chew up every other turbo blade. not all of em are damaged. just seems wierd to me. thats all :)

[smo0f]

it's a mazdaspeed protege. 'weird' is the norm.

[505zoom]

so when a rod goes it has enough force to come back through the intake, though a maf (on presure side), fmic and back to the turbo and blow a compressor wheel...

Haha, that's not at all what I meant... that would jack up the other side of the blades anyway. But... if you think of how the shaft starts to get "play" after awhile, it is a in and out type of movement. Now think of that same movement while the blades are spinning, and think of a force great enough to make it hit the housing... see what I'm saying? Also, those pits you speak of could possibly be from the small fragments of blade hitting the inside of the compressor inlet after they were broken up.

It's harder to tell while looking at pics than it is for you there in person, but I just wanted to throw in here that it didn't HAVE to be something getting in the intake, like everyone in this thread is saying. Tell me this, is there any damage to the compressor housing where the blades WOULD hit?

[terbow]

oh so u mean if the turbo had to much play for whatever reason and maybe overboosted and then hit the housing, self destructed, then went into the engine, and made shit go boom. valid. makes sense.

i dont think anything got in the intake unless it was rmoved cause filter was good and it was sealed. plus the pits look like they are shooting outwards.

[terbow]

we were tuning it at like 6 psi btw.

[505zoom]

It's kind of a long shot I know, but like I said, other people have broken a turbo JUST from blowing a motor, so it's not impossible. Just a quick glance at the pics makes it look obvious that something got in there, but I dunno, it just seems unlikely to me that a rock or bolt would damage ONLY every other fin almost exactly the same, and leave the other ones alone.

[terbow]

right. also fishy to me, and when u blow holes in the block its kinda hard to preserve ANY evidence of material being the culprate. when i rip the block apart maybe there will be some signs of a story.

[Jeph]

Wow, I never even thought of the compressor wheel hitting the housing, but when you go back and look at the pictures it makes more sense than something getting in the intake.

[sweetlou69]

where can i send this to get fixed? any good spots to do it for cheap? im just tradin the car in after anyway

[69RMSP]

feel sorry for the bastard that gets that turbine next lol

[elgra15]

hey i want to know if i can put the same racing parts of the protege to the allegro

[EvoMR]

From what I heard it was not sitting at 10.5, and it was around 8 psi. Hole in the wastegate could do it but it never passed 8psi the driver said. More and more leads to a bad tune. If it had a bad knock or detonation that blew the motor since the motor is weak then there isn't much time for plugs to foul or show signs. Before you could finish the tune the LSD blew, it was pretty much one WOT run that blew the motor so 24 hours of driving holds like a grain of salt.

[terbow]

actually we did many wot runs when the lsd blew and it was running rich.Alls i was doing was tuning the buck out from to much fuel. i dont really care what you heard, you werent in the car, the driver was alone so no one but j knows the truth. i know who you are, and i know who the driver is so how about since you werent in the car you keep your mouth shut since you have no idea whats going on. sweetlou WAS in the car when the lsd went, it WAS rich, and no knocking or one of us would have heard it. and if it wasnt at 10.5 @ 8 psi if there was a lean spot then why the fuck was the driver romping on it at lean? I dont really understand why you two are blaming the motor tune. oh yea maybe cause he doesnt want to take responsability. I have nothing to hide, yes it wasnt complete thats cause sweetloud was supposed to get it tuned and didnt but it was in no way lean at WOT. in fact it was so rich it would buck. Sweet lou was in the car, if he was unhappy or heard somehting weird he would have seen it right in front of his eyes. what happeend when his motor blew? oh wait only 1 person knows..when iheard the story it was never over 6 psi...now its 8? yea ok, again it must be the tune. how bout you stay out of this cause you nor i, nor mike know what really happened. If you want to blame me and the tune go right ahead but it wasnt lean, and there was no knock.

i know the tune was rich enough to not blow a motor at 6 psi (ive seen automatic protege run 8 psi at 13.5 and not blow, cause they got OFF THE GAS cause it was lean) there is no excuse when you have the tools to see what the motor is doing right in front of your face, unless it was just a freak thing where the motor just went cause it was sad inside. You can blame the tune till your blue in the face but the fact of the matter is, sweet lou drove the car, it WAS rich and didnt knock, what happened when he WASNT driving it....??? oh yea no one knows but j.

doesnt matter anyhow cause once i swap the engines hes getting rid of it anyway so u can blame the tune all you want.

[smo0f]

not sure why there's a blame game involved, nor will i myself get involved. eitherway, what is the chance that the turbo was like that before the motor went? slim? possible? why is it every other blade? are those blades higher than the other ones that are intact? if they are, then the wheel went up into the housing, that's the only logical explanation. if it's any consolation, my motor went with just a CAI and exhaust as my mods, at stock boost. so, motors blowing tuned, untuned, logical, illogical, doesn't apply.

[terbow]

not sure why there's a blame game involved, nor will i myself get involved. eitherway, what is the chance that the turbo was like that before the motor went? slim? possible? why is it every other blade? are those blades higher than the other ones that are intact? if they are, then the wheel went up into the housing, that's the only logical explanation. if it's any consolation, my motor went with just a CAI and exhaust as my mods, at stock boost. so, motors blowing tuned, untuned, logical, illogical, doesn't apply.

exactly. there shouldnt be blame. sweetlou wasnt driving the car so no one knows what happened. im not gonna sit here and take their shit tho. i personally think its to rid the driver of any responsability. and the driver is a really cool person (i met him twice) and i know he wouldnt be blaming me(tune), evo mr has to open his mouth and make it all worse.

doesnt bother me anyhow cause im saving sweetlou like 2k by swapping his engine for him so im doin my part to help, and when we get done im gonna rip the block apart and see what happened if i can.

as for the turbo the day the lsd went the turbo was fine (wheel wise), i checked it before i put the intake back on. while driving we heard no new noises than sweetlou had reported before he even gave it to me. then once the lsd went it wasnt driven till it was fixed. so it had to be within that 24 hrs.

[onequickmsp]

if it's any consolation, my motor went with just a CAI and exhaust as my mods, at stock boost. so, motors blowing tuned, untuned, logical, illogical, doesn't apply.

That scares me. What can you do if your motor goes? New motor?? or can you repair it?

[terbow]

no you needa new block, when it goes it usually blows a hole in the side of the engine..

and smoof, yes those are higher than the other blades (ie. they are on a different plane) i was thinkin that might be what hapepned also cause some of the corners look chipped off then once it started with one corner it all out of balance then terminates itself, and you get the idea. what causes that? i dont know, i just know it wasnt like that when it left my shop (aka uneven driveway ;) ) or when we were tuning i heard nothing bad with the turbo. infact it was running like a beast for 30 mins haha.

[smo0f]

That scares me. What can you do if your motor goes? New motor?? or can you repair it?

you need a new core, because there's usually a hole in the block where the rod/piston went through. using the core, depending on how bad the damage is, you can resalvage older parts and use them to rebuild the motor. sometimes it's just more convenient and not that much more expensive to buy a used/junkyard motor. the option i went with is a complete rebuild with cp pistons and manley rods, a full head job, and other stuff. a shitload more expensive, but i wont have to worry about this happening

[smo0f]

no you needa new block, when it goes it usually blows a hole in the side of the engine..

and smoof, yes those are higher than the other blades (ie. they are on a different plane) i was thinkin that might be what hapepned also cause some of the corners look chipped off then once it started with one corner it all out of balance then terminates itself, and you get the idea. what causes that? i dont know, i just know it wasnt like that when it left my shop (aka uneven driveway ;) ) or when we were tuning i heard nothing bad with the turbo. infact it was running like a beast for 30 mins haha.

yea, that's just f'n weird. i was gonna say, if he is keeping the car, he should just go with a turbo stage 1 upgrade, but i'm under the assumption that he's getting rid of it once it's up and running again according to stock specs

[terbow]

yea, that's just f'n weird. i was gonna say, if he is keeping the car, he should just go with a turbo stage 1 upgrade, but i'm under the assumption that he's getting rid of it once it's up and running again according to stock specs

yup

[terbow]

you need a new core, because there's usually a hole in the block where the rod/piston went through. using the core, depending on how bad the damage is, you can resalvage older parts and use them to rebuild the motor. sometimes it's just more convenient and not that much more expensive to buy a used/junkyard motor. the option i went with is a complete rebuild with cp pistons and manley rods, a full head job, and other stuff. a shitload more expensive, but i wont have to worry about this happening

u can still blow a forged motor ;)

[nvmsp]

u can still blow a forged motor ;)


Unfortunately, which sucks sooooo much.

[Kooldino]

Haha, that's not at all what I meant... that would jack up the other side of the blades anyway. But... if you think of how the shaft starts to get "play" after awhile, it is a in and out type of movement. Now think of that same movement while the blades are spinning, and think of a force great enough to make it hit the housing... see what I'm saying? Also, those pits you speak of could possibly be from the small fragments of blade hitting the inside of the compressor inlet after they were broken up.

It's harder to tell while looking at pics than it is for you there in person, but I just wanted to throw in here that it didn't HAVE to be something getting in the intake, like everyone in this thread is saying. Tell me this, is there any damage to the compressor housing where the blades WOULD hit?

I would think that if your "backfire" type theory is what happened, the element in his MAF would have broken clean off as well.

[terbow]

his is on the pressure side so it would have been poopy. hes been on the same tune for months he just had a buck i couldnt get out so thats what i was tuning out when the lsd went. more i look at the turbo the more i wonder if it destructed somehow. maybe it was overboosted and wasnt in spec for balance and it hit the housing. cause the corners look chipped.

[smo0f]

Unfortunately, which sucks sooooo much.

even with engine management and a safe tune, and supporting mods? that would be shitty

[505zoom]

I would think that if your "backfire" type theory is what happened, the element in his MAF would have broken clean off as well.

Not necessarily... I would have to see pics of the turbine side of this turbo before I can really say anything else though. If the turbine isn't damaged in any way, then I don't know wtf happened here.(dunno)

[Kooldino]

his is on the pressure side so it would have been poopy.

Exactly. And if that MAF wire is intact, than 505's theory isn't what happened to that turbo.

[Blackrose]

The only sure fire way to tell is to peel the turbo housing open. If there are marks on the inside of the houseing then tada.... answer.... but if the shft had that much play then you could easily just grab the sucker right now and see if it moves that much. Not to mention can a turbo have that much play to the point it hits the housing all the way to the center most point of the shaft. I dont know i guess thats my 2 cents...

[terbow]

yea im goin back tommorow if it doesnt rain to take the old engine out so ill take a look... im very curious myself.

[terbow]

The only sure fire way to tell is to peel the turbo housing open. If there are marks on the inside of the houseing then tada.... answer.... but if the shft had that much play then you could easily just grab the sucker right now and see if it moves that much. Not to mention can a turbo have that much play to the point it hits the housing all the way to the center most point of the shaft. I dont know i guess thats my 2 cents...

well there might be marks on the housing cause either way the compressor wheel exploded so... but if thers some on the turbine side then ill know something hit it when the engine blew. or if the wheels loose and theres nothing on the turbine side then it could have been shaft play. maybe at 6 psi it was ok , but since the WG line had a hole, whatever psi it actually did it was enough to make it go into the housing. ill find out either way.

[gomo187]

Figured id come and defend myself and possibly tony. i drove the car and the engine blew while i was driving it..yes. To answer everyones question the boost was about 7-8 psi when it blew. all the other times id driven it, it boosted to almost 10 anyways. there was pleanty of noises, they just all happened after the engine ate itself. i dont know if it was the tune, i trust tony knows what hes doing. it may have been the fact that the car was driven for 2 years untuned boosting sometimes over 10 psi, maybe it had finally just had it. seems these cars blow on their own with minor mods, so to think that one as heavily modded as this one couldnt blow up is rediulous. sometimes things just happen. I have taken blame for it wheather it was my fault or not, and i know tony has too. Both of us have tried helping reguardless, but sweetlou is a good friend and is not gonna blame anyone.

[gomo187]

Sweetlou now has the opportunity to step it up to a real car like an EVO and not have to worry about blowing a motor by boosting past 7psi. I Boost 21 psi all day.

[EvoMR]

I wouldn't say an Evo is really stepping it up unless he buys a new one. Look at the problems happening with yours, and my 03.

[EvoMR]

But if I catch you with an RX8 I will slit your throat Oneil.

[smo0f]

what kind of problems are u guys having with your evos. i'm looking to trade in for one

[gomo187]

Nothing major yet on mine, but if you look at an Evo go BRAND NEW, dont waste time with used. at 36k i need a new clutch and front suspension, but it just got me to do things i was probably do anyways, just sooner. Evomr had some drivetrain issues on his 03.

[igdrasil]

That looks like a foreign object damage. Can you check if theres a hole in the block close to the compressor?

[sweetlou69]

here are some pics of my sweet motor...

[Kansei]

That would pretty much ruin my day.

[terbow]

here are some pics of my sweet motor...

its just a minor blemish. nothing jb weld cant fix.

[igdrasil]

no rod...hmm...

Is your starter good? Last time I blew a motor, the rod hit the starter and broke it apart.

[terbow]

its hit, its not blown apart tho. so i think its ok., looks like it just cracked the alum part a lil bit. i have to take a closer look at it.

[igdrasil]

its hit, its not blown apart tho. so i think its ok., looks like it just cracked the alum part a lil bit. i have to take a closer look at it.

yeah...thats what happened to me, it looked ok but when i tried to start the new engine, it broke apart. So be careful.

[terbow]

oh. is there any way to tell?

[ghettobubba2001]

open it up and go on an adventure!

[terbow]

oh didnt know u can just open em up.. excellent i love exploring. esp on other peoples cars. ;)

[bazooka joe]

thread jack...tony, the mani is cracked! guy a talked to today says the wastegate tube into the exhaust could have caused it??

[terbow]

yup thats y he probably doesnt make them like that anymore. its actually very common. i dont know if there was a flex pipe in the wg tube but there should be if not. better call beau!

[bazooka joe]

yup thats y he probably doesnt make them like that anymore. its actually very common. i dont know if there was a flex pipe in the wg tube but there should be if not. better call beau!

i did...no more 1st gen sleeper parts...gigs are gone....

[terbow]

so....u just have to deal with it? its a design flaw.

[bazooka joe]

so....u just have to deal with it? its a design flaw.

hey, thanks for the call!! i appreciate someone looking out for me....lord knows i need it!! let's hope it doesn't get worse!