Mazdaspeed 6 Intermittent Lack of Power Concern Fix Available

[crossbow]

2006 Mazdaspeed6 intermittent lack of power concern
-new PCM calibration is now available on IDS.

Cal. Spec.
Filename is SW-L3K9EJ000

NEW PCM CAL.
P/N is L3K9-18881J

Fed Spec.
Filename is SW-L3M8EJ000

NEW PCM CAL.
P/N is L3M8-18881J

Should any 2006 Mazdaspeed6 customers complain about an intermittent
lack of power concern, please update your IDS tool to software version
42.9 P6 and reprogram the vehicle's PCM to the latest calibration
(L3K9-18881J).

What does this mean?
Any power loss issues you experience, please call your dealer immediately and ask them if they have updated to 42.9 P6, and if not, if they would please check the mazda tech line for information about

Intermittent Lack of Power Concern

It takes some dealerships sometime to check the tech line...so please call PRIOR to visiting. Encourage them to check the tech line until they get the information about the new software download. The key words are the bolded and enlarged text above.

Do note that there is no information on "exactly" what this fix does. Those with boost gauges, please record data BEFORE and AFTER the fix. It will be invaluable to figuring out what changes mazda is making. Anyone with a data logger, please capture data prior to and after the fix as well.

If you have NOT had POWER LOSS...AVOID getting the fix until more information on what it actually does is available. Get the fix if you are having issues, but avoid getting it if you haven't had any.

Here is the info from the previously pinned sticky on what the powerloss is.


What is happening when the power loss occurs?
When the Mazdaspeed 6 detects 1 knock, it cuts the electronic throttle input to 33%. That means if you have the pedal floored completely down, the max the PCM/ECU allows the throttle plate to open is 1/3. Since the throttle is electric, the PCM can completely override any and all driver inputs for the safety of the engine. Those who ever owned a 6 with a bad maf sensor know exactly how this works.

What is knock?
Knock, or pinging/denonation, is when the unburned fuel/air mixture in the cylinder combusts prior to the flame front (of the actual combustion process) completes. This causes an interruption in combustion due to the two shockwaves intersecting and generally results in a metallic "ping" sound.

Why is this occuring the MPS 6?
The main problem seems to stem from the lack of pure 93 octane gas in many areas of the United States. In Japan, 93 octane gas is available in all areas, but this is not the gas in the United States. Higher octane gasolines reduce the chance of premature detonation by increasing the activation energy required for combustion. (Simple explanation). This help prevents a mixture of air/fuel from detonating prior to the flame front (from the spark).
Other causes of detonation involve excessive combustion temperatures, (which can be related to cooling issues with either the air charge or the coolant system), timing advanced too far, and running too hot a sparkplug.

What is Mazda doing about this?
Mazda is adjusting the # of cycles it takes the knock sensor to throw the car into 33% throttle mode through a PCM/ECU reflash. The sensitivity is also going to be addressed, but not significantly, as the knock sensor is still there to stop detonation from occuring. The cycles should greatly reduce the # of occurances from owners. This Flash is now available and will slowly populate to dealers across the USA. Please call your dealer and ensure its availability PRIOR to visiting.


Here is an uncluttered link with the information (in case this thread goes beserk)
http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?p=43549#43549

[Chris-BE]

What they are probably doing is stepping down the powerloss.

Meaning it senses knock or low octane, and then goes to 10% powerloss, then goes to 15% loss if it picks up more knock, and eventually all the way down to the previous standard of 33% or more powerloss.

(sssh)

[crossbow]

Some dealerships have been claiming this fix is not available...so I took a screenshot of the IDS version with the VCM in the foreground.

http://www.3dluvr.com/crossbow/incoming/vcm.jpg

Yes I have a giant thumb.

[seanmcsean]

Once again crossbow, good info!

[Rainman]

Crossbow, you rock. I vote that we change your name to Trebuchet or Howitzer (depending on whether you like the historical or the modern theme) because crossbow seems an inadequate description of your firepower brother!

R

[Captain KRM P5]

excellent work

[Rainman]

Crossbow,

I stickied this thread and moved it to the general MS6 forum because I think that it is important enough that everyone should see it rather than simply those who are checking out the Forced Induction forum.

R

[Antoine]

Excellent post Crossbow (thumb)

Also...Props to Rainman for making this info more accessible!

Crossbow,

I stickied this thread and moved it to the general MS6 forum because I think that it is important enough that everyone should see it rather than simply those who are checking out the Forced Induction forum.

R

[ln0217]

All who have this problem be aware that the software update is NOT improving performance in most cars updated. Feedback has been that the hesitation goes away but boost is not felt until high in the RPM range. Apparent serious decrease in performance according to most.
If your particular problem is not that frequent, wait for further updates.

[vcinsanity1523]

All who have this problem be aware that the software update is NOT improving performance in most cars updated. Feedback has been that the hesitation goes away but boost is not felt until high in the RPM range. Apparent serious decrease in performance according to most.
If your particular problem is not that frequent, wait for further updates.


lol here we go nice job on the computer once again mazda can you say MSP problems all over again??

[seanw]

All who have this problem be aware that the software update is NOT improving performance in most cars updated. Feedback has been that the hesitation goes away but boost is not felt until high in the RPM range. Apparent serious decrease in performance according to most.
If your particular problem is not that frequent, wait for further updates.

I'm waiting myself, since I experienced P/W only once in 7K miles. But I haven't seen more than one or two posts which suggest any decrease in performance. Seems unlikely, too, since fix is supposedly just a desensitization to knock detection.

[Mgkdrgn]

Had my first experience today, and thought I would check in to see if it had been fixed yet. Looks like the jury is still out?

Maybe a little octane boost juice is in order, just in case I got a bad tankfull.

Brett

[crossbow]

Thanks for stickying it Rainman. I think it's now in all the major forums, so owners will be able to get the fix if any dealers give them shit about it. (Amazing how many dealerships still aren't aware there is a reflash available).

As mentioned in the reflash post, this only applies one specific type of powerloss. Powerloss caused by inadequete octane, or excessive charge temp (heat soak), will still occur if certain situations are met.

The powerloss, of which there is a fix for, is best reproduced in low rpm/high load situations. A good example of this would be filling your car with friends, and driving up an incline at around 2-3k rpm. In many instances, this will cause the powerloss to occur, if you've never had it occur before.

Some owners have had excessive amounts of powerloss, which may be attributed to other factors. Remember that this type of powerloss will still occur if there is sufficent knock to warrant throwing the engine in "OMFG SAVE ME" mode. It is believed (no one knows for sure), that the reflash is merely changing the sensitivity of the knock sensor, and the amount of times the knock sensor has to signal, before the car goes into heavy Mazda 6i mode.

[Spool-N-Up]

Just got my MS6 PCM reflashed this morning, good-bye powerloss. It was such a headache with the whole losing power thing. Like a good dealership they fixed it, kinda surprising bc the Mazda dealership here isnt the best. We shall see how long the flash keeps the power loss off.

It does feel little different now though...



Thanks for stickying it Rainman. I think it's now in all the major forums, so owners will be able to get the fix if any dealers give them shit about it. (Amazing how many dealerships still aren't aware there is a reflash available).

As mentioned in the reflash post, this only applies one specific type of powerloss. Powerloss caused by inadequete octane, or excessive charge temp (heat soak), will still occur if certain situations are met.

The powerloss, of which there is a fix for, is best reproduced in low rpm/high load situations. A good example of this would be filling your car with friends, and driving up an incline at around 2-3k rpm. In many instances, this will cause the powerloss to occur, if you've never had it occur before.

Some owners have had excessive amounts of powerloss, which may be attributed to other factors. Remember that this type of powerloss will still occur if there is sufficent knock to warrant throwing the engine in "OMFG SAVE ME" mode. It is believed (no one knows for sure), that the reflash is merely changing the sensitivity of the knock sensor, and the amount of times the knock sensor has to signal, before the car goes into heavy Mazda 6i mode.

[edog]

I'm experiencing power loss like others. It's great there is a software update to help "deal" with this, but I can't help but think it's not going to keep me happy.

If the reflash just changes the sensitivity to knock does that mean we put up with knock to get the power?

If some octane boost is added to the gas, or better gas is used, will the sensor pick up on that automatically and restore the performance? I've cycled through several tanks of 93 octane - never used anything but - from several stations such as Exxon and Shell since it started and still have power loss.

I love this car but won't be happy if I must contend with this all the time. Could someone put my mind at ease that I'm worrying about nothing?

[jdub260]

I had a few lost power issues when I first got the car and then it got real bad after I added my CAI, like every time I drove the car. I started running Sunoco 94 after that and it has been about a month and I have not had any lost power issues since. I'm not saying that Sunoco is the best, just the only place that I know I can always get 94. I know other companies sell 94, but where I live it seems like a station by station choice not a requirement.

[G-Papi]

Wonder if this will affect the CX-7 since it's basically the same engine.

[psi365]

I have been working on cars with disi (FSI) for over a year now for a different manufacturer. We had similiar issues on certain year/ engine with a stumble on cold start up and misfires (ignition knock). We had a reflash. It kind of worked and essentially all they did was to bump up fuel pressure. Some cars still had the cold misfire. They found that after removing the intake there were large deposits of carbon on the backsides of the intake valves. These deposites would fall of the valves go into the combustion chamber and instant misfire. Their newest theory is that after "spirited" driving when the person shifts and the car goes from high rpm to closed throttle a high vacuum is formed sucking crankcase venting (hydrocarbons) and makes the deposite on the valves. I've heard of cylinder heads being replaced, fuel injector cleaner/intake cleaner being used. Since I do not know exactly how Mazda's DISI works, but if it works like the cars I work on maybe if a Mazda tech or Mazda engineer is on here they should check this out to see if its similiar.

Thanks

[jdub260]

I was on Mymazda.com today and they have posted the following.

There is a recall concerning:
Date: 07/21/2006
2006 - Mazdaspeed6 Lack Of Power

[Newf]

hmmm, interesting. If it's a recall, wouldn't we be contacted?

[jaimem26]

I was on Mymazda.com today and they have posted the following.

There is a recall concerning:
Date: 07/21/2006
2006 - Mazdaspeed6 Lack Of Power



I logged on to http://www.mazdaowner.com this morning and they also had something posted in in the "Recall Warning" section. The recall warning is exactly as follows:

"2006 - Mazdaspeed6 Lack Of Power"

[ChicagoKid]

Same here too. I just checked mymazda online and it's there.

[Bigg Tim]

I got the flash done today and all I can say is THIS is how the car should have ran from the beginning. I got it good and hot boosting alot in 112 degree heat and it still pulls 15psi to about 5k or so then it tapers to 13psi or so by 6k. It feels much stronger now, but I do feel a little lunge in the upper RPM's like something is coming on and off. It is intermitten, so maybe it will change as I get drive cycles on it.

On my ticket from Mazda, it has F0010XFX .3 under the FLASH PCM line. I don't know if it means anything or not.

[TheMAN]

that is just a labor operations code... means nothing to everyone but the dealer/mazda

but yeah, the recall has JUST been released for certain builds of the ms6... all it does involve is a flash update to the ECU to fix the hessitation/lack of power problems

[ChicagoKid]

hmmm, interesting. If it's a recall, wouldn't we be contacted?

You can call the dealer and have them check you VIN#.

[TheMAN]

dealers have been officially notified as of 3 days ago

[ChicagoKid]

I had the re-flash done Saturday and I've notice a big improvement. You do have to use 93 or higher octane. And I had them disable the seat belt chime too.

[Mgkdrgn]

... on this "update" that it is a good one? I got my notice yesterday.

Brett

[jdub260]

... on this "update" that it is a good one? I got my notice yesterday.

Brett

I had mine done Monday 8-7-06 and It did slow the car down a little. The real test will be if I can run 91 or 93 and not have any problems. I still have a full tank of 94 right now. I don't think the average driver will notice the difference it is very small. I don't have a boost gauge but it feels like the power/boost is about the same it just comes on a little slower.

[Mgkdrgn]

So, whats your "longer term" verdict on the update now?

I had mine done Monday 8-7-06 and It did slow the car down a little. The real test will be if I can run 91 or 93 and not have any problems. I still have a full tank of 94 right now. I don't think the average driver will notice the difference it is very small. I don't have a boost gauge but it feels like the power/boost is about the same it just comes on a little slower.

[jdub260]

I have 93 in the car right now and still no problems. I just borrowed my buddy's Gtech yesterday and and recorded a single 1/4mile run of 14.324 @ 98.51mph. This was done without "launching" the car. I don't wanna break anything. I don't think the recall will be a problem. I'd say get it done.

[Matt'sSpeed6]

I gotta chime in here: I had mine done, and maybe I am paranoid, but I got a feel that the car is not pulling as hard... and a little bit of hesitation as the revs climb. Gas is 93 octane, A/C running. Anyone else notice the same???

[TheMAN]

when did you get yours done? there's been an even newer flash update since the 31st for the ms6

I did one on friday and test drove it.. hauls serious ass to me

[Matt'sSpeed6]

Man:

I had mine done on August 11th -

Was there a new PN or campaign number for this newer flash that I could compare to see if I did get the upgraded one???

M

[the gamper]

Hey guys, just dropped my car off this morning to get Sirrius installed (finally). The service guy told me he would do the flash update while they had my car. I was suprised to hear that it had not been performed prior to delivery since I just bought the car 3 weeks ago. Anyway I expressed a concern that the update would result in less power and he told me that it should actually increase power. Just thought I would throw that in there. I get it back tonight and will let you guys know.

[the gamper]

Hey guys, just dropped my car off this morning to get Sirrius installed (finally). The service guy told me he would do the flash update while they had my car. I was suprised to hear that it had not been performed prior to delivery since I just bought the car 3 weeks ago. Anyway I expressed a concern that the update would result in less power and he told me that it should actually increase power. Just thought I would throw that in there. I get it back tonight and will let you guys know.

All right, got the flash update. It might just be me overthinking the matter, but I really feel that it has affected power particularly in the higher gears. It feels like peak boost is coming on at slightly higher rpms. Like I said, it could be just me. Performance off the line doesnt seem affected, but giving it gas a cruising speeds doesnt seem to produce the same amount of boost it used to. Still fast though.

[Matt'sSpeed6]

All right, got the flash update. It might just be me overthinking the matter, but I really feel that it has affected power particularly in the higher gears. It feels like peak boost is coming on at slightly higher rpms. Like I said, it could be just me. Performance off the line doesnt seem affected, but giving it gas a cruising speeds doesnt seem to produce the same amount of boost it used to. Still fast though.



I AGREE. 60-70 mph in top gear does not seem to pull as hard.

M

[ns80]

I agree 100%. It actually feels like there's a little more torque down low, but the top end sucks. Before the flash when cruising in 6th at 70 I could give it maybe half throttle and be at 90 amazingly quick. Now it seems to take at least twice as long, and it isn't much better even if I downshift into 5th. I'm not a happy camper and wish I hadn't had it done. I would rather deal with the occasional loss of power than to have it the way it is now.

[Bigg Tim]

You DEFIANTLY get less boost. I only get about 11psi at WOT around 4k aand up and I lost power on the dyno because of it. Once I hit 15psi, it starts to pull boost right away, where as before it would hold 15psi until 4200 and then taper off a couple psi.

[ns80]

I called the dealer today to see if they would be able to put the old version back on, but it doesn't sound good. The service manager is meeting with his Mazda rep later today so he's going to run it by him and see if it can be done, but I'm sure they will say no. I think anyone not happy with what this flash has done needs to contact Mazda directly and put some pressure on them to release one that resolves the power loss issue without completely changing the feel of the car in higher gears. I know I'll be calling them ASAP.

[the gamper]

I called the dealer today to see if they would be able to put the old version back on, but it doesn't sound good. The service manager is meeting with his Mazda rep later today so he's going to run it by him and see if it can be done, but I'm sure they will say no. I think anyone not happy with what this flash has done needs to contact Mazda directly and put some pressure on them to release one that resolves the power loss issue without completely changing the feel of the car in higher gears. I know I'll be calling them ASAP.

I am going to write a letter. I am still waiting to hear back from the Service manager at Mazda regarding the issue. I still like the car, but it is not the same car I drove off the dealer lot, and I am not happy about the change, especially since I never experienced the power loss problem in the first place.

[ns80]

I am going to write a letter. I am still waiting to hear back from the Service manager at Mazda regarding the issue. I still like the car, but it is not the same car I drove off the dealer lot, and I am not happy about the change, especially since I never experienced the power loss problem in the first place.

That is my feeling exactly. The car still handles great and is peppy in 1st and 2nd gear, but it's not the same car I bought at all. Of course I can't test it now but I would venture to say 70-90 takes double the time it used to. Every person at the dealer was so concerned that I was happy with both them and Mazda during my purchase, so we'll see if they do anything to keep me happy at this point.

[mrclean]

I did the same ns80 i called my dealer .. told them power at highways speeds is flat... I told her ie the service advisor I DONT LIKE IT...And i want my original tune back as i didnt have powerloss she is going to call me back... 1st and 2nd gear feels the same however ... In second coasting in 2nd @ 2000rpm and then punching it I've noticed boost doesnt arrive like it should in this car ...like the old stock from factory tune
PS MAZDA IF YOUR LISTENING
TUNE THIS CAR RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This car could be such a rocket with awesome accelleration and smoothness if you took the time to evaluate your re-call tunes b4 you release them...
Your faithful and humble SPEED LOVER(ughdance)

[mrclean]

well i spoke to the service advisor as i had scheduled an appointment for today.. BAD NEWS FOR ME... they cant revert back to the old original tune .. Since this is a recall they state that it is a law and that it must be performed..
I really am disliking this map for the vehicle.. I think its time for me to call Mazda Canada and make a legitimate complaint...
(pissed)

[the gamper]

I took my car into the dealership regarding the loss of power in higher gears. They tell me I am crazy, and the car runs fine. What can I do, I cannot prove it. I guess I will have to write that letter to Mazda NA letting them know they still have some work to do on the flash update.

[Boosted24]

Hey whats up I am new here and recently had the reflash done DO NOT DO IT the car was awesome before but since the flash it fell on its face I took it back up and they said they can't do nothing to help me so now I'm stuck

[Lee123]

I have the same problem. I put my Speed6 in yesterday for it's first oil change and was told about the recall...which was then performed.

Man...major power loss at higher rpm. It ran like a dream before.

I spoke to my dealer service rep who told me that it would take 200 miles for the pcm to go through it's learning cycle. I then spoke to Mazda who said...and hear this...it would take 2-3 thousand miles for this to happen...wtf.

Anyone else heard this?

After a little more digging, also seems there might be a relation between the power loss and what octane fuel is being used. Seems if you use less than 93 octane your power will suffer. I live in Colorado where you will not find anything over 91 octane....kinda screwed huh...!

[Matt'sSpeed6]

I have put +1,000 miles on since the upgrade. I feel the car is just not pulling the way it should be. High RPM's are not as powerful as the lows. Does anybody have a true test out there?? Just not the seat of the pants meter?? I have to agree - it is not the same car I bought 1,500 miles ago.

M

[rusharp]

I have put +1,000 miles on since the upgrade. I feel the car is just not pulling the way it should be. High RPM's are not as powerful as the lows. Does anybody have a true test out there?? Just not the seat of the pants meter?? I have to agree - it is not the same car I bought 1,500 miles ago.

M

No question about this situation, the thing is the dealer should be able to see it...the boost must be way off what it was before this stupid update...I can understand making a change if someone does not have access to 93+ octane, but for those of us that do we are getting penalized by what appears to be a detune job...I'm not happy about it either.

So where do we go from here?? (enguard)

[Enthusiast128]

I've experienced the "lack of power" at 3k. Called a dealer near work and idiots telling me to contact them when i recieve the letter from Mazda so i said screw them. Took it back to where I purchased the car and they took care of it in 20 minutes with reprogramming the doors to lock. But I felt a serious issue with my car. I didnt like the top end in the Speed6 to begin with, really unhappy with the topend power. I use to cruise at 70-80mph hwy and just stepping on the gas in 6th gear I can pull away (its nice but i want more power) but now I cant even get the same effect even if I drop down a gear.

I'm wondering if I can have Mazda buy it back for the same amount. Since they offered to buy back the RX-8 due to false claim in hp. If I can achieve the same power before the "fix" I wouldnt mind keeping the car.

[Matt'sSpeed6]

I've experienced the "lack of power" at 3k. Called a dealer near work and idiots telling me to contact them when i recieve the letter from Mazda so i said screw them. Took it back to where I purchased the car and they took care of it in 20 minutes with reprogramming the doors to lock. But I felt a serious issue with my car. I didnt like the top end in the Speed6 to begin with, really unhappy with the topend power. I use to cruise at 70-80mph hwy and just stepping on the gas in 6th gear I can pull away (its nice but i want more power) but now I cant even get the same effect even if I drop down a gear.

I'm wondering if I can have Mazda buy it back for the same amount. Since they offered to buy back the RX-8 due to false claim in hp. If I can achieve the same power before the "fix" I wouldnt mind keeping the car.


I want the same car I originally paid for back!!!!!!!!!!!

MAZDA - do something please.

M

[lencarv]

When I bought my MS6 back in September some of the screws to the fuel filler door were missing. They said they would actually have to put a new door on since Mazda can't get the screws. They called me today that they had a new one in, so I went down to have them put in. I assumed from reading this message board that my car would have already had the re-flash, since I bought it on 9/1/06. Well 5 minutes after I handed my key over to the service guy he tells me that my car is due for the re-flash. I played stupid and thinking quickly I told him I would have to schedule it for a later time, I had to get my kids from school. They were fine with that, so no re-flash for me "yet". While they were putting on the new fuel door I wandered over to the service manager and asked him what the flash was all about. I guess trying to speak in laymans terms he said the car currently taps into 255hp to 260hp, and re-flashing the computer would put it to the rated 274hp. Have any of you guys heard this explanation? I always put 93 octane in my car and it has never stopped pulling when I get on it., I love how it drives.

[Enthusiast128]

I just got back from the dealer for an oil change and while i was there, made a complain about the recall issue. The service manager had recieved a bunch of calls reguarding the problems with less power then it had before the recall. According to the dealer, Mazda is currently working out a solution to fix situation. So let's hope this information I got is correct and hope Mazda will release the new flash soon.

[morgan2112]

Hopefully there will be ANOTHER flash for those of us with 93 octane..
IS Mazda likely to post a better, third PCM setup/flash??
Thanks!!! My fingers are crossed as this car could be much better. Also is there any good clutch adjustment. My 1st to 2nd shift is not clean. I have to pause going into 2nd(pissed) . Production date = 02/2006.

[Matt'sSpeed6]

I just got back from the dealer for an oil change and while i was there, made a complain about the recall issue. The service manager had recieved a bunch of calls reguarding the problems with less power then it had before the recall. According to the dealer, Mazda is currently working out a solution to fix situation. So let's hope this information I got is correct and hope Mazda will release the new flash soon.


I wish my dealer knew these cars and there was a network of people locally to me to complain also. I do not believe the local dealer has sold 6 in the past year!! They still have at least 6-8 sitting on the lot.

M

[doogie]

I have the same problem. I put my Speed6 in yesterday for it's first oil change and was told about the recall...which was then performed.

Man...major power loss at higher rpm. It ran like a dream before.

I spoke to my dealer service rep who told me that it would take 200 miles for the pcm to go through it's learning cycle. I then spoke to Mazda who said...and hear this...it would take 2-3 thousand miles for this to happen...wtf.

Anyone else heard this?

After a little more digging, also seems there might be a relation between the power loss and what octane fuel is being used. Seems if you use less than 93 octane your power will suffer. I live in Colorado where you will not find anything over 91 octane....kinda screwed huh...!

At higher evlavations there is no need for higher octane fuels once over4,000 ft above sea level as opposed to sea level. So you will not be affected as much a the individual that lives at 3,000 ft and below. The less dense air requires much less ocatane (anti-detonant) than at seal level at a simular ambiant temperature because of a richer fuel mixture that has less nitrogen/oxigen to mix hense less power. The control of the ECU is based on a Knock count so that hog wash that about 2-3,000 mile seems like just that hog wash. Food for thought.

[Lee123]

I did fill up with 93 octane...no difference at all...so yes you are totally correct on that note...but it was worth a shot...:)

My Mazda is going into the dealer today to get some warranty work done. Whilst it's in they will be looking into the loss of power problem. I complained to Mazda on numerous occasions so they have told my dealer to perform a bunch of tests to determine the problem. I will let you all know if anything comes of it...fingers crossed...!

p.s. - if you havn't complained to Mazda yet....1-800-222-5500, opt-5

[ms6denver]

Just thought I'd chime in and say that yes, the flash is aweful. I had hesitation before at low RPMs and thought this might do the trick to fix it but as mentioned by other folks my car is now a lagwagon - especially at higher RPMs... and I think the hesitation is actually worse. The whole experience is soft compared to before. I guess I should have taken a hint when they said it was an "emissions" recall. Most mods to improve emissions means a hit in performance. I'm willing to bet they changed the exhaust oxygen sensor lookup table (leaner fuel mix) since you want more O2 to make CO2 versus CO in the catalytic converter - which means less burned fuel.

As an aside, I've seen claims of 450hp with an fmic, can the trans take that much hp if it actually works??

[ms6denver]

"At higher evlavations there is no need for higher octane fuels once over4,000 ft above sea level as opposed to sea level." I disagree with that (living at 5280 feet), I put in 100 octane sometimes for kicks and I think I get at least an extra 20hp out of the deal - there are so many sensors in the engine, especially with DISI, now centered on combustion that I think the car just generally likes a tighter, low pre-det burn that high octane provides.

[Lee123]

Here's an update for you all...

My local Mazda dealer performed some test's in conjuction with the Mazda Tech hotline...(thanks for your help Ed)
Here is a quote from their findings:

"Roadtest, observe data, found vehicle maintains boost of 24-25 psi over 4200 rpms. Contact hotline advised of torque curve has been modified, horsepower has not".

So in a nut shell, the recall performed by Mazda included a decreased torque curve but they kept the horsepower curve the same. Basically they have reduced the power in the higher rpm range.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that Mazda are working on an improved PCM reflash. The more of us that complain the better...

On a side note, has anyone looked into an after market PCM flash?

[morgan2112]

Here's an update for you all...

My local Mazda dealer performed some test's in conjuction with the Mazda Tech hotline...(thanks for your help Ed)
Here is a quote from their findings:

"Roadtest, observe data, found vehicle maintains boost of 24-25 psi over 4200 rpms. Contact hotline advised of torque curve has been modified, horsepower has not".

So in a nut shell, the recall performed by Mazda included a decreased torque curve but they kept the horsepower curve the same. Basically they have reduced the power in the higher rpm range.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that Mazda are working on an improved PCM reflash. The more of us that complain the better...

On a side note, has anyone looked into an after market PCM flash?

ALL along I and others have been saying how this car could be the real deal if MAZDA would hook it up proper with a little more research/(PCM)tuning. However, I have yet to find any credible or real answers. (pissed)
Here's hoping that Mazda puts on a classic game-winning 80-yard Drive!!!(alright) (alright)
(drinks)


(drunk)

(bike)
(drive2) (drive) (five-0) (five-0) (wrc) (band) (enguard) (huh)
moral of the story = I must have a new PCM comprehensive program/flash in order to out-run the PO-Po / 5.O!!! (cheers2)
(boom05) (gossip) (group)

[mssixter]

Have 1700 miles on my MS6. Just doesnt pull like it did the first week that I got it. Still pulls, but I dont think like it did (could I just be use to it now? lol). All I put in my vehicles is 93. The car had 200 miles on it when I got it new. So I have no idea on what octane they put in it. Last week when they put my MP3 player in the car, I asked him if there was the flash done to my car, and he told me all the MS6's they had already had them done. Talked with my salesman today to set up an appt. to see about this flash issue. I'm suppose to go in on Monday and get this looked into more. Glad I read this. I dont know if I'm going to go and get this done until they get a more solid solution for this.

[ms6denver]

btw, which dealership in Denver are you going to Lee? Is that Ed at Burt south?

2 days ago I called Ed and he told me I should check back in 6 weeks... No idea if that means there will be an update by then or not. Do you have any printouts of your results? He said another ms6 owner was raising cain there, must have been you... :)

mssixter - I remember thinking the same thing at about 2000 miles, I think you just get used to haulin ass and it seems normal. I have 19,000 on mine and I can sense the suspension is getting a tiny bit softer, other than the recent "flash of castration" I think its still pretty nimble. My suggestion - just go faster, once you feel the rear end loosen up around a curve on dry pavement you'll feel it again.

[Lee123]

...lol...raising cain.....hell more like. When ya spend 30k on a car you kinda expect it to work as designed ya know...

Yeah, Ed at Burt on Arapahoe...he's a good guy though. I do have a print out, but I pretty much typed what it says in the previous post...not too much else really...

Really hoping that Mazda is working on it. Check in with Ed and Mazda's main office every month or so...that's my plan. Keep the pressure on them to get it fixed...

[the gamper]

I sent a letter to Mazda expressing my dissapointment for the performance downgrade we all got. I suggest you all do the same. I referenced this site and all the unhappy members. If you know of any other documented malcontents out there it may be a worthwile to mention. As a side note, I called the customer assistance phone number and was told that they were not aware of a problem and no fix or update was in the works.

Send to

Attention Customer Assistance Center
Mazda North American Operations
P.O. Box 19734
Irvine, CA 92623-9734

[JJxUSAF]

I got the fix today, and I have to say that based on what I read here, it is greatly exaggerated. I did not notice a huge change in power, and the car still drives fine to me.

That being said, I am not some performance nut who takes it to redline every time I leave a stoplight. My car has rarely if ever seen anything higher than 4500. I'm speaking solely about normal driving. To me, it doesn't feel any different. I can still feel the turbo kick in and the car pull at just over 3000, and it still has plenty of power.

[doogie]

CUSTOMER STATES HAS A SOLID CEL .

Dealer pulled the following code: P2407 "leak pump circute erratic. PCM incorrect calibration. Reflash part number: AJAYA1888ID"

CAUSE: F0010XFX POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE - REFLASHING

"REFLASH PCM WITH UP DATED CALIBRATION AS PER MAZDA"

The car drives a bit differently in that boost on set is later and higher up in the rpm rage (31-32k) but it seems to pull higher up in the rpm range as opposed to the previous flash that was calibrated on delivery. Power is still there but is seems to have lost some of its torque.

[Jonesy32]

I have read all of these posts on the turbo powerloss the MS6's are encountering and it has just made me more confused as to what to do????
I just purchased my MS6 2 weeks ago and I have aruond 300 miles on it (it had 20 miles on it when I picked it up). I am experiencing the same powerloss everyone is talking about, ALREADY!! This car just absolutely flew when I picked it up and now it just seems VERY sluggish. I contacted the dealership and questioned him on the reflash (my car was manufactured in January '06 so it falls under the recall). He calls me back and tells me that my car was NOT reflashed at all but it was a voluntary recall and if I experience the problems to let him know.
Question I have is...should I do it?? Reason for hesitating is a few people said in their posts that the reflash actually lowers factory boost to get around the sensitivity issue the motor has.
HELP!!!! What are people's thoughts???

[ClevelandSpeed6]

I received a friendly Recall Reminder from my dealership last week and made an appointment without giving it much thought. When I asked the dealer what the recall was for he said some MS6's weren't passing emissions in some of the stricter states. I should have read these posts prior to making my appointment.
Driving back from the dealer at lunch today I thought that I was experiencing less power than usual. Called the dealer and he said that the flash changed the fuel to air mixture. If you aren't having problems I'd pass on this Recall until further notice. Might try and get is flashed back to the original settings.

[jdub260]

If you can run Sunoco 94 do it, that's all I ran prior to the reflash and I never had a problem with it. I did have powerloss issues with some Marathon 93 but never with the Sunoco 94. My dealer told me I had to get the flash when I had the car in for an oil change so I did it and I've been unhappy ever since. But fear not Cobb is going to make a programmer for the MS6 next spring then we can really get the Air Fuel Mixture leaned out and see what the MS6 can really do.

[RsxtypeS]

No question about this situation, the thing is the dealer should be able to see it...the boost must be way off what it was before this stupid update...I can understand making a change if someone does not have access to 93+ octane, but for those of us that do we are getting penalized by what appears to be a detune job...I'm not happy about it either.

So where do we go from here?? (enguard)


Isnt this flash up to the driver/owner? If I bring in my car for an oil change and they tell me I need to get this done I am going to get in my car and leave and just get oil changed elsewhere. They cant make you get a reflash

[Afroman]

I just got this in the mail today.

The first couple of replies indicated that this fix, isnt too bad and they didnt notice anything.

Others indicated that its horrible and the car runs like crap.

Its been a while since a lot of people have had this done. Do you feel any different about your choice? Has it gotten better / worse?

thanks.

[jdub260]

I just got this in the mail today.

The first couple of replies indicated that this fix, isnt too bad and they didnt notice anything.

Others indicated that its horrible and the car runs like crap.

Its been a while since a lot of people have had this done. Do you feel any different about your choice? Has it gotten better / worse?

thanks.
As far as daily driving goes it's not that bad, but I Auto-X my MS6 and the flash smoothes out the power curve which really hurt my times. I liked it more when the power kicked in hard and early, that works better for second gear parking lot racing. It is a little slower but not a show stopper just a "complaint" but all will be fixed by COBB this spring. :D

[udelslayer]

That reflash is ugg'n fugly.

I'm not a Mazda owner....but I have worked on a few FD/FC RX7's in my time (I can swap an engine in about 6 hours).....I drive a WRX, so I am interested in the awd platforms of these disi 4cyl beasts. Here is the thing.

A coworker just got his flashed after having boost drop issues. Now you cant accelerate in the car. It feels like the wastegate is not regulating the boost properly and that its spiking and trying to compensate by completely losing all boost. Upon 3rd gear acceleration at around 4K, it studders BADLY. So bad, in fact, its outright dangerous to drive.

I cant believe a company like Mazda that badges something as a "mazdaspeed" item would put this on the road before serious tests. Are all of you experiencing these issues? The dealerships are lost. They dont know what to do other than follow Mazda's instructions on how to fix stuff, replace this, replace that....but I can see the power potential of the car.

Anyone here got an FSM for this 2.3 DISI? I'm really hunting it down for my coworker to see if we cant isolate this issue ourselves. I dont know if its the reflash or if its a defect in the car itself. The damn windows wont go down now..... wTF?

thanky

j

[doogie]

There most be another issue that is currently affecting the cars performance. My GT has had the re-flash for over a month and have no issues with the. The performance is still up to par and milage has actually gotten alittle better. The power delivery is smoothe off boost, partial, and full throttle up to 5-6K where it falls as with all MS6 that I have heard about. So as far as that substantial power loss that you have discribed, there has to be some other problem that is happening. Take it to another dealer to run a full diagnostic and explain in detail what the car is doing and not doing. Ask also if they have the current flash update from Mazda. As long as the car has no aftermarket performance mods there will be no problems solving this issue.

[Lee123]

Here's a message to all MS6 owners that are experincing this "Lack of Power" issue.
If you haven't already done so, complain to your Mazda Service Manager. Make sure the problem is diagnosed and a case is opened to the Mazda tech center. Make sure you receive a REF number.
I have just heard (from my sm) that if Mazda receives enough complaints Mazda will envoke a full recall for this matter.
It's now in our hands to make this happen...

[hotrodtrk]

I also had mine reflashed due to a bad studder around 4k and a total boost loss. This would happen on ocassion usually when running hard or under a load like going up a good sized hill. The reflash fixed most of the issue but what a power loss. I almost feel like I'm driving a family car now. High end power and speed are gone. The car sucks and as soon as I can unload it, it's gone unless Mazda does something about it. No way to prove it unless you had a certified dyno done before and after. Since I still had the same problem oh so slightly after the flash, I took it in and they did some further adjustment. Now it sucks even more. I told the service tech, and I will be taking the car back soon to fix the issue. I can't believe Mazda is screwing us this way. This is the last one I'm buying.
It feels as if the car wants to go but the computer is telling it to hold on now, we don't want to pollute the air. I'm still feeling a lot of hesitation between 2500-3500 rpms. Almost as if the boost cannot stay steady. I did find that sometimes when I double press the accelerator it seems to help. And the wierd thing is sometimes it hauls butt, then the next time I get on it there isn't much of anything there. I just don't get it.
I'm thinking If they don't fix it, and I can't lemon law it, or prove there is a HP/torque loss and claim fraud, the best thing I can do is wait until the warranty is gone and change out the computer to an aftermarket type with half the other parts on the motor. Funny thing is, if Mazda added some of these better parts when building the car we wouldn't be putting up with all of these issues. I would gladly pay an additional couple of grand for quality performance parts. And I bet with the proper tune, emissions wouldn't be an issue.
Has anyone found a fix for the power loss issue, or are we all waiting for Mazda to fix it? Mazda needs to get their heads out of their @$$es. I have already stopped two people from purchasing the ms6 due to the issues. I'll keep on yelling until they get their act together.

[Koenig]

hotrodtrk........thanks a lot man, I'm going to get my car dyno'd I've had it for a week bought it April 28th it's a 2006 model speed6... I'm gonna go to this AWD dyno garage and have some runs made on it.... and then keep that.... and just in case i need to take my car in for anything, and they reflash the ecu without asking me or letting me know until after, then i'll redyno it and have proof.... not bad. Glad I read this thread, I'm gonna get on that ASAP.....

[wannabe]

hotrodtrk........thanks a lot man, I'm going to get my car dyno'd I've had it for a week bought it April 28th it's a 2006 model speed6... I'm gonna go to this AWD dyno garage and have some runs made on it.... and then keep that.... and just in case i need to take my car in for anything, and they reflash the ecu without asking me or letting me know until after, then i'll redyno it and have proof.... not bad. Glad I read this thread, I'm gonna get on that ASAP.....

they probably did it already. check your drivers door jamb...i bet theres a sticker attestign to it...

[Koenig]

I'm walking out to my car right now to look, lol... the thing is it's a 2006 that was owned in Arizona for 25 days then given back to the dealer and driven from the dealer in AZ to a dealer in FL.... so it had 4803 miles when I bought it (i put on 2 miles test driving it). The sticker would be on the jamb down near where the sticker is for the tire information?

[Koenig]

I forgot to mention all the above was according to CARFAX....... anyhoo....

I just checked the door jab only the normal 3 stickers.... the airbag warning... the tire inflation chart and the production sticker....nothing about an ECU re-flash....

[wannabe]

I'm walking out to my car right now to look, lol... the thing is it's a 2006 that was owned in Arizona for 25 days then given back to the dealer and driven from the dealer in AZ to a dealer in FL.... so it had 4803 miles when I bought it (i put on 2 miles test driving it). The sticker would be on the jamb down near where the sticker is for the tire information?

I bought mine with 44 miles on it, the dealer had done the reflash. the sticker was up closer to the hinge, but it was fairly obvious, so you wouldn't miss it.

[trees]

mine was reflased and i have no sticker.

[hotrodtrk]

Keep the posts coming guys. I print these and take them to the dealer with me. We really need to keep complaining so we can get these things fixed.

[Koenig]

Hmmm....... I checked all around , even up towards the front of the door, and around the hinges and under the door I noticed nothing but the normal 3 stickers, I might not have been flashed.... the dealer I bought my car from wasn't a mazda it was a World Ford dealer (lol) so yeah.... I don't think Ford would have done the reflash.... is there anyway to check my ecu? I'm told the checksums of the ecu always record whenever a flash has been done and you can't reset the checksums..... this is coming from a mechanic I know (not from mazda though)

[Igve2shtz]

Not to beat this into the ground or anything, but I am just curious. I (so far) have not yet had the reflash, and I dont plan on ever doing it, just as long as I can get away with it. However ...

How do the 2007 Speed6 guys like their ECU map? If there are no problems with that map, why not just reflash the 2006's to the 2007 standards?

Or is the 2007 map the same as the reflash?

[Koenig]

I believe the reflash is the same map that the 2007s have....... since people with the 2006 models have said they noticed a slight loss in power after the reflash....

2006 models are rated 274hp
2007 models are rated 270hp

[Igve2shtz]

Thanks. That makes sense. I thought that Mazda might have gone to the new SAE way of measuring HP, and thats where the 4 hp went to. Does the 07 suffer from the same problems facing the new flash? IE ... full spool comes later, slower acceleration at freeway speeds?

[Koenig]

Never driven a 2007 so I have no idea, I have a 2006 MS6, and I'm happy with it I won't let the dealer reflash it if I can help it.......

[Igve2shtz]

Whats your secret for not getting them to automatically do the reflash? Im due for the first oil change next week, and was just gonna either play the "no time" card, the "I dont need it and when I do, I will be back", or just go all offensive at first and say its not safety related, and I like the car the way it is so dont mess with it.

I met the service manager already today, just to get on somewhat good terms with him.

[Koenig]

Whats your secret for not getting them to automatically do the reflash? Im due for the first oil change next week, and was just gonna either play the "no time" card, the "I dont need it and when I do, I will be back", or just go all offensive at first and say its not safety related, and I like the car the way it is so dont mess with it.

I met the service manager already today, just to get on somewhat good terms with him.


If you already met with him then make sure you just stress the fact that he understands you don't want the reflash done to the car........ it's not broken, so don't fix it type of thing.

Just be frank with him and ask him if he can make sure none of the techs perform the reflash and you'll get it as it's needed..... since it's not really a safety issue and most people haven't had the engine problems most people don't need the reflash....

If you think you and the service manager are on good terms then just tell him upfront you'd like for them to NOT do the reflash.... if he says he can't do that, you're better off changing your oil yourself..........it's not hard.

[Koenig]

i don't think it's in any relation to a VIN #, not that i'm aware of.......also for security reasons you should never post your full VIN #..... yeah...

what year is your speed6?

[mr_sheldo]

i don't think it's in any relation to a VIN #, not that i'm aware of.......also for security reasons you should never post your full VIN #..... yeah...

what year is your speed6?

Actually if you look at the actual pdf file that is attached somewhere in this thread it gives the vin # range for the vehicles. Mine is not in that range.

[Koenig]

i didn't find it, if you know where it is please link me I'd like to check my vin, since I'm in the TYPE A for the clutch replacement, I'd like to see if I'm supposed to have this "knock" issue.

[mr_sheldo]

Here ya go:

[Koenig]

thanks, I appreciate it!!

Apparently my vehicle falls under the VIN#s however I have no problems with my car.......so I can't say...... it doesn't feel like I have any loss of power cause my car comes on strong, even in 6th gear doing 80 my car will pull hard, so I don't think it's been performed on mine....... I'd like to keep it that way :D

[Madscientist1]

just thought I would post this, Ive spoken with the guys over at www.ATP.com who have a turbo upgrade kit for the MSP6. They have a boost cut killer that you can buy that will prevent the ecu from killing the boost, I wonder if this could solve the boost cut condition that has been robbing you guys of your power. They have a video of their test car ripping off a sub 13 second 1/4 mile for those interested. I emailed them about what they used to tune, and if a boost controller and a their BCK (boost cut killer) would allow the boost to be raised and a safe a/f ratio maintained. They said that the factory fuel system has more than enough to run with what the stock turbo can put out and that a boost controller and their BCK would allow the boost to be turned up on the stock turbo.

On a second note, I believe the problem with the boost being cut is the top mount intercooler. I have yet to see a top mount intercooler that doesn't run into problems with detonation. Look at the top mount on Subaru's, even in stock trim on a hot day the ECU pulls out timing and cuts boost because the intercooler gets heat soaked and the intake temps skyrocket. Turbo magazine did a test on the stock intercooler (they did a whole build up of the STI) and found it to be completely heat soaked after just 2 runs on the dyno. This is with the STI's huge bird-swallowing hood scoop as well. All the MSP6 has is the two small inlets at the front of the hood. So, Im willing to bet that a water injection kit would alleviate the problem if you dont want to pony up the big bucks for a custom front mount job. At the very least plumb a windshield washer hose over to the intercooler and put a nozzle on it. This is another trick Subaru's use to keep the intercooler from getting heat soaked. This wouldn't void any warranty, and would cost like 15$ from any autoparts store. My 2 cents have turned into a rant, thanks for reading lol.

[gerasimatos]

My 300 mile brand new 2007 MS6 feels slow most of the time as compared to my neighbors MS3. I know, more weight, ect but it should not feel THIS much slower. I am going to bring it in to Norcoa Mazda tommorrow to see whats up.

Also, it has thrown a few CEL's since I got it, they usually go away when I shut off the car and turn it on again. That makes it hard to get to the dealer to get it looked at.

[wannabe]

My 300 mile brand new 2007 MS6 feels slow most of the time as compared to my neighbors MS3. I know, more weight, ect but it should not feel THIS much slower. I am going to bring it in to Norcoa Mazda tommorrow to see whats up.

Also, it has thrown a few CEL's since I got it, they usually go away when I shut off the car and turn it on again. That makes it hard to get to the dealer to get it looked at.

CELs will stay stored in the ECU. if you are getting them, more than likely you got other issues there as well, which may explain why it feels slow.

[Koenig]

just thought I would post this, Ive spoken with the guys over at www.ATP.com who have a turbo upgrade kit for the MSP6. They have a boost cut killer that you can buy that will prevent the ecu from killing the boost, I wonder if this could solve the boost cut condition that has been robbing you guys of your power. They have a video of their test car ripping off a sub 13 second 1/4 mile for those interested. I emailed them about what they used to tune, and if a boost controller and a their BCK (boost cut killer) would allow the boost to be raised and a safe a/f ratio maintained. They said that the factory fuel system has more than enough to run with what the stock turbo can put out and that a boost controller and their BCK would allow the boost to be turned up on the stock turbo.

On a second note, I believe the problem with the boost being cut is the top mount intercooler. I have yet to see a top mount intercooler that doesn't run into problems with detonation. Look at the top mount on Subaru's, even in stock trim on a hot day the ECU pulls out timing and cuts boost because the intercooler gets heat soaked and the intake temps skyrocket. Turbo magazine did a test on the stock intercooler (they did a whole build up of the STI) and found it to be completely heat soaked after just 2 runs on the dyno. This is with the STI's huge bird-swallowing hood scoop as well. All the MSP6 has is the two small inlets at the front of the hood. So, Im willing to bet that a water injection kit would alleviate the problem if you dont want to pony up the big bucks for a custom front mount job. At the very least plumb a windshield washer hose over to the intercooler and put a nozzle on it. This is another trick Subaru's use to keep the intercooler from getting heat soaked. This wouldn't void any warranty, and would cost like 15$ from any autoparts store. My 2 cents have turned into a rant, thanks for reading lol.

That washer fluid hose sounds like a neat trick...... not sure if I would want to be wasting washer fluid on my intercooler though...... lol.... would have to fab up some other device and a separate reservoir for water......but none the less sounds good (or you can buy one of those CO2 kits from protegegarage.com that will keep it cool and you should be able to re-use it in the event you switch to a FMIC?)

[MS6S2K]

I had this reflash done when they were doing my clutch TSB, and I actually happen to like it better. Many have been complaining, but I simply don't notice anything but the fact that the car is now smoother in power delivery. I think it's better then before no doubt. :)

[Qwik6]

I had a problem when i first bought my car. During hard accelleration the car would jerk back an forth. Took it to the dealer an they said the purge valve was bad. Whatever that is? But anyways they did a reflash as well. It has been doing fine for a couple month until last weekend i was taking off normal and it began to jerk again an the CEL came on. Reset the computer and its been doing fine. But i always notice when i get close so 1/4 tank it has hesitation. I have a boost gauge installed and the highest i ever hit is 12-13. When its hot outside it feels a lot slower an only maxes out at 7-8psi.

[rms]

I have owned a 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 for a few months and I am completely unhappy with the intermintant loss of power. I have taken it to two different dealers three times now and they say they can't find a problem. In fact it's at the dealer right now. Mazda told the dealer to do a octane test. I told the dealer I put in the highest I can get which is 91 here in Utah. I notice on a cool morning it has more power than in the heat of the day. It seems to have loss of power with a low amount of fuel.
I owned a 2005 Mazda 6i 2.3 before which I sold to my brother. I have raced him twice and he keeps right there with me. Where is the HP? What a PoS. I paid double for leather and a sunroof? Where is the power that sold me on this car?!?!
I'm getting tired of dealing with this.

[wannabe]

I have owned a 2007 Mazdaspeed 6 for a few months and I am completely unhappy with the intermintant loss of power. I have taken it to two different dealers three times now and they say they can't find a problem. In fact it's at the dealer right now. Mazda told the dealer to do a octane test. I told the dealer I put in the highest I can get which is 91 here in Utah. I notice on a cool morning it has more power than in the heat of the day. It seems to have loss of power with a low amount of fuel.
I owned a 2005 Mazda 6i 2.3 before which I sold to my brother. I have raced him twice and he keeps right there with me. Where is the HP? What a PoS. I paid double for leather and a sunroof? Where is the power that sold me on this car?!?!
I'm getting tired of dealing with this.

the 91 octane is probably your problem. i ran 89 for a gallon once(i was out of gas, and thats all the station had) and it was HORRIBLE. i only ever use 93.

[Koenig]

the 91 octane is probably your problem. i ran 89 for a gallon once(i was out of gas, and thats all the station had) and it was HORRIBLE. i only ever use 93.


I agree......... this car was practically developed and made using 93 octane gas, multiple people who have used 91 octane have complained many times that they have loss of power, either you need to get 93 octane or have the car reflashed, or (if that doesn't help) to get an EMS to tune it for 91 octane.

[thabigo]

lol the last six of my vin is 107539!! Haha i missed it by 2 cars!! Wait.. does that mean mine already has the flash in it??

[Koenig]

lol the last six of my vin is 107539!! Haha i missed it by 2 cars!! Wait.. does that mean mine already has the flash in it??


I wouldn't say it has the "flash" more like it came from factory with a different tune preloaded into the ECU.... there is a slight possibility it did, or it didn't and you could get the flash.

[MS6S2K]

I truly believe this car is just still in it's fine tuning stage, and there is just gonna be moments where you'll lack some power. It's very picky when it comes to the climate in my experience. This car just isn't gonna be perfectly smooth in it's power delivery like an N/A engine, so all you can do is put the highest octane gas in, and enjoy the good days where you have full power.

Over time, if and when Cobb comes out with a tuner for this, I expect to see a major improvement, but as of now, I enjoy this reflash, and I'll take the smoother acceleration over the frequent loss of power, and in my case with 93 octane, this car for the most part runs very smoothly and powerfully. ;)

[Koenig]

I honestly have no power loss issues, I'm having for that.... it may be I just baby my car, because I don't really drive hard, I only speed up to make a pass on some douche blocking the lanes, but I never lack the power to speed up and pass when I need to, or even lack the power when the douche actually decides he's going to try and speed up on me so I can't pass.

But I agree with the fine tuning....... I'd like to see how the Cobb compares to the CPE since the CPE is very close to PnP now....

[rms]

My question is how can they sell a car that requires 93 in a area that you can get only 91? The dealer told me last night that the octane test showed the throttle pulled back. Mazda said that I'm not using the right octane. duh!?!? What can I do? I can't add octane booster to every tank. Gas is too expensive as it is. I love the looks of this car I just wish it didn't have this problem.
BTW....Talked to Utah's consumer protection. If I take the car in four times and they can't fix the trouble Mazda has to buy back the car minus mileage. The buy back includes tax too. That is Utah's "Lemon Law". I have had it in three times so far. I would prefer it fixed and keep the car but I'm not going to continue with this. I guess I will be shopping for something new.(pissed)

[Koenig]

My question is how can they sell a car that requires 93 in a area that you can get only 91? The dealer told me last night that the octane test showed the throttle pulled back. Mazda said that I'm not using the right octane. duh!?!? What can I do? I can't add octane booster to every tank. Gas is too expensive as it is. I love the looks of this car I just wish it didn't have this problem.
BTW....Talked to Utah's consumer protection. If I take the car in four times and they can't fix the trouble Mazda has to buy back the car minus mileage. The buy back includes tax too. That is Utah's "Lemon Law". I have had it in three times so far. I would prefer it fixed and keep the car but I'm not going to continue with this. I guess I will be shopping for something new.(pissed)

Have you had the reflash performed on the car yet? A lot of the people who've had the reflash have been better now when they use 91 octane...... even the MS3 was tuned for 91 octane (i assume cause of the problems with the MS6 and 91 octane)

[rms]

Yes the first time I took it in they said there was an update to the PCM and they performed that. I'm still waiting for the dealer to tell me what Mazda is going to do. I have also contacted Mazda directly twice and they are not helpful at all.

[Koenig]

Yes the first time I took it in they said there was an update to the PCM and they performed that. I'm still waiting for the dealer to tell me what Mazda is going to do. I have also contacted Mazda directly twice and they are not helpful at all.

Well if they weren't helpful, I'm sorry to say but it appears like you may be getting a new car :(

If you liked the MS6 a lot I would suggest at least looking at the Subaru Legacy GT. Just saw one on the road today about an hour ago coming home.... they caught up to me (i was driving a little spirited, heh) and I asked them what they paid out the door for the car, because honestly I was considering the MS6 and the Legecy GT..... driver turned out to be a female and told me 27.5 which is a little bit higher than what most people have been buying 2006 MS6s for brand new.... I got my MS6 with 4k miles for 20k so that's pretty much what made me decide on the car over the Subaru.

I know you like your car a lot though so uh, I hope it works out for you in the end. I do know that an EMS like CP-E's Standback would help your surging issues, as it seems to have helped other people's issues. Not sure if you'd want to go that route though.

[bootcamp]

hey guys i have a few questions
what does CEL stand for
what is "EMS like CP-E's Standback"
what does this mean "Cobb compares to the CPE since the CPE is very close to PnP now"

reason I care is cause i have an 06 with 13k+ miles and now i am getting the lack or power issue. I have to turn the car off and as soon as i turn back on the full boost is back, very wierd.

also, some posts from late 2006 in this thread talked about mazda releasing an update to the reflash. did this happen? I am considering getting it done.

Also, what is strange, the dealer i got it from sent me a letter that they would buy back the car for $21,000 if i bought an 2008 model.

[Koenig]

ok first things first

CEL = Check Engine Light... the little light on your dashboard that looks like an engine and pops up when it detects something is wrong, usually accompanied by a "check engine" written under the symbol.

EMS = Engine Management System. It's basically a piggy back that allows you more control over the car from what the factory's computer does. Think of it like a hack, example. You want to access money in a bank's ATM machine. You swipe a keypad finder through the card slot, etc etc... you hack teh atm and it spits out $500 for you.

COBB is a company making an EMS, called the "AccessPort" they still have not made it. there is controversy regarding whether their EMS will be better than CP-E (Custom Performance Engineering) or XEDE's EMS, since they do great things for Subarus.

PnP = Plug And Play. as of now 2 EMS are available for the car. Both require you to splice into your existing wires. PnP means being able to plug the EMS into a socket make changes, and remove the EMS if you need to from the car for any reason.

There are quite a few reflashes from Mazda. Recalls if you will. There is one concerning surge and sputter of engine on boost. There is a recall for that, some have said it fixes their car but makes it feel slower. This really hasn't been 100% confirmed by anyone, but if you're losing boost you should definitely have the dealer check it to see if you have a leak.

lastly, there are no 2008 mazdaspeed6 models... so whatever letter you're getting is a lie. Unless you have a REGULAR Mazda6 model, which judging by your signature you do not, the letter is just bogus to get you back on the lot and be hounded.

but definitely get your boost drop checked out. you may have a leak or such that needs to be fixed.

[bootcamp]

thanks for the reply, good info

considering the boost loss is "fixed" with a restart of the engine, could it really be a leak? A leak to me would mean a consistent problem. No sputtering occurs, but instead of the expected kick in the ass boost past 3k+/- rpm, i just get a wet fish, meaning minimal boost or non at all.

The letter stated a 2008 model, being whatever they made in 08, not a ms6

[Koenig]

thanks for the reply, good info

considering the boost loss is "fixed" with a restart of the engine, could it really be a leak? A leak to me would mean a consistent problem. No sputtering occurs, but instead of the expected kick in the ass boost past 3k+/- rpm, i just get a wet fish, meaning minimal boost or non at all.

The letter stated a 2008 model, being whatever they made in 08, not a ms6


oh ok the letter meant whatever 2008 model I thought they were telling you a 2008 MS6, lol.

To be honest about the vacuum leak being fixed when restarted, I don't really know........ stranger things have been known to happen in life.

But just the fact your car simply STOPS boosting doesn't seem right. Definitely get that looked at under your warranty.

and yes there is a reflash of the ECU regarding powerloss to the cars....... they may need to apply that to your car.

[Jonesy32]

I purchased my 2006 speed 6 in November of 2006 and have been driving it this long without the reflash. I just had the reflash done last week and here are my opinions:

#1 - there is NO power loss, in fact the car seems to have much MORE power then it did prior to the reflash. I love this car but one of my main gripes with it was how the torque would kick in WAY to early which would cause the car to, literally, hit a brick wall at 4000 RPM's and above. The "sweet spot" in this car, before the reflash, was very small (boost kicked in at 2500 RPM's and then fell completely flat at 4000 RPM's). Couple this with a 6 speed and you can imagine how many extra shifts you had to make in order to keep the car in power.

Now, after I had the reflash, it's like driving a completely different car (in a good way). Boost now kicks in at the same 2500 RPM's, but now you can accelerate all the way to 5500 RPM's without any loss of power. The service manager, who is into modding his cars also, explained that the "old" program in the ECU was making the turbo spool too quickly and it was running out of it's effeciency range prematurely. I have no idea about turbos and I won't even try to pretend I do, but this explaination made sense to me, logically. The reflash also took care of most of the "fuel cut" problems I had in third and fourth gear. There is still a split second hesitation but nothing like it was prior to the reflash. I should also mention they replaced the actuator valve in the manifold because that was sticking a bit.

#2 - Yes, the short burst of boost that use to kick in at 3000 RPM's is lost but I will gladly give that up for a more linear and longer boost. It does not feel any slower to me, in fact it feels like it is quicker. I don't have any before or after dyno stats or 1/4 mile times to support my theory. All I am trying to do is give people that are on the fence about doing it one person's opinion.

Anyway, I personally would recommend getting this reflash done if you are not happy with the way your car putts out at 4000 RPM's

I forgot to mention that my only mod is the mazdaspeed CAI

[redspeed6]

the flash takes care of the car going into "fail safe" too early. This is why when you shut off the car and restart you have boost again. When the computer senses too much knock it will cut timing and cut boost down to save the motor. The reflash allows for more fuel and timing to get rid of knock and thus more boost "power" til redline.
When i was working at mazda, i had a MS6 with the same issue, after 10mins of driving, loss of power over 2500. and sure enough you drive it on the freeway for 10mins. and you try to accelerate it would fall on its ass after 2500 rpm.
The flash takes care of this, but some think that it makes it slower and have not had the flash done yet.
As soon as i get mine back from CarMax for scratches on the paint i will be getting the flash done, it hasn't been done yet and i feel it surge when trying to boost everytime i get on it and this will take care of that.

[Stewblack23]

I'm thinking about buying a MS6 next year and I have been reading about the power loss problems on various sites. It got me re-thinking about buying the ride. However blogger Crossbow provided great information below. My questions are does this power loss only happen on 2006 MS6's and does it effect the 2006 MS3's as well. Also is the cost of this software update under the manufactures warranty or do I have to pay out of pocket?

[Mgkdrgn]

I'm thinking about buying a MS6 next year and I have been reading about the power loss problems on various sites. It got me re-thinking about buying the ride. However blogger Crossbow provided great information below. My questions are does this power loss only happen on 2006 MS6's and does it effect the 2006 MS3's as well. Also is the cost of this software update under the manufactures warranty or do I have to pay out of pocket?

What great information??

[Koenig]

wow for so many car ppl you guys really dont know much about the car


I find this the most humorous and ironic.

The reason your oil is black is because you're not draining out ALL of the oil in the car.

There is still oil sitting in the turbo and some piping.

I performed 3 oil changes on my car and it was clear, clean oil.

First oil change, turned on engine ran for 10-20 seconds to cycle.
Drain. Dirty oil.
2nd oil change, (2nd verse, same as the first).
Drain. Mixture of clean and dirty oil.
3rd oil change... checked dipstick, clear and clean oil.

Also Mazda has even noted a TSB for multiple issues regarding the power issue.

The high pressure fuel rail experiencing low pressure.
and the car needing a PCM reflash are just 2 of the issues that will fix some people's power surge problems.

I had my dealer change out the fuel rail when I started to experiencing the surge and kickback between 3rd and 4th gear. Now I experience nothing.

While I'm not saying the fuel cleaner didn't solve YOUR issue (it's always good to have a fuel injector cleaner because of the deposits in your fuel tank going through your injectors). But at the same time that's not the be all end all solution to the power surge issue. There are multiple solutions that work differently.