I relocated!!!!!

[vxfilmer1000]

Well, i finally got sometime to relocate my MAF to my cold pipe. It runs alot smoother and i LOVE the no stalling only thing is it kinda hestate more then it didi before?? but other then that i love it i will take some pics today.


EDIT: Okay on the 1st is a pic of my MAF relocated and the 2nd picture is with my intake gone and some metal mesh stuff around my turbo and let me tell you, you can hear that thing spooling a mile away. The spool is sooo much louder now and i love it.

[Ryoga28]

are you running a dual setup (bpv plus bov) or an open atm bov?

[vxfilmer1000]

are you running a dual setup (bpv plus bov) or an open atm bov?


Im running open type s bov

[msfamilia]

It hesitates more?

I want to figure out why before I move mine....

[TenaciousB]

I relocated mine recentl as well, when I installed my hardpipes. I did not notice a huge difference idle or responsiveness, I have notice alittle hesitation also. I read somewhere that you should reset the ecu after doing this, especially if you are running the AFC. I did this, but didn't really do anything for me. I hope to fix it by retuning the AFC. I am going to try and download the map genius made and see how it runs.

[low_psi]

how can it run smoother but hesistate worse?

[vxfilmer1000]

I uploaded some pics on my first post

[vxfilmer1000]

I relocated mine recentl as well, when I installed my hardpipes. I did not notice a huge difference idle or responsiveness, I have notice alittle hesitation also. I read somewhere that you should reset the ecu after doing this, especially if you are running the AFC. I did this, but didn't really do anything for me. I hope to fix it by retuning the AFC. I am going to try and download the map genius made and see how it runs.


yeah i reset my ECU but it still hesitates a little bit.... Hopefully when i get DSM AFC it will fix that... Anyone know any other way to fix it for free (lol) cause i plan on getting DSM AFC but until then i dont want to hesitate

[vxfilmer1000]

anyone know were i can get DSM's AFC ??

[Notorious_V.I.C]

The little mesh thing isn't that bad? I mean the trubo could be inhaling dirt, and be getting hot air from the fans. Hope you get that fixed.

[NeverSober]

Im with VIC, the hesitation is because youre sucking in hot air now instead of the cooler air. Hot air = shittier running msp

[pluto316]

It makes the engine bay so much more open, I can't wait to do this with my SU hard pipes...

[Notorious_V.I.C]

It makes the engine bay so much more open, I can't wait to do this with my SU hard pipes...

MAM is making hardpipes for the SMIC now too! Check under the force induction section

[msfamilia]

vxfilmer, please do report back regarding the hesitation issue after you put back an intake pipe.

I kind of suspect that it is the problem with the open turbo inlet as well.

[vxfilmer1000]

It still hesitated when i had my SRI on there, because i drove around for about a day with my SRI and it still hesitated then i just put that mesh stuff on there to see what it would do and it still hesitates

[jsahyoun]

I relocated as well and I could not be happier. I left mine injen as a cold air intake by using soem metal tubing in place of the MAF. I could not be happier, no stalling, and I actually fell like i have less hesitation???

[Notorious_V.I.C]

Did you remember to reset the ECU? don't forget to press the brake pedal and stuff when you disconecct the battery.

[vxfilmer1000]

yeah i did reset my ECU and press the break.... This weekend i will put my Injen CAI back on and just put a piece or pipe were the MAF went and then reset my ECU again and hopefully it wont hesitate as much...

[Notorious_V.I.C]

yea have a shop weld some exhaust piping or some kind of metal pipe to connect the the two parts of the CAI, it should be better then using couplers and or clamps.

Good luck hope it works

[vxfilmer1000]

What size pipe do i need to get to put in place of the MAF when i put my CAI back in? 2.75 ? 2.5 ?

[jsahyoun]

2.75 Inch

[vxfilmer1000]

2.75 Inch

thats what i was think i just wanted to make sure, thanks man.

[jsahyoun]

No problem I just got done doing this myself, and I wanted to keep my intake as a CAI. You will like it!

[vxfilmer1000]

Well i put the CAI back on and reset my ecu and still hesitates like crazy. I will floor it , it will spool, get loud, then just barly move til about 5000 or 5500rpm then it will finally get all its power and go.......

[RenzoMSP]

So does it hesitate more than before you relocated?

[vxfilmer1000]

So does it hesitate more than before you relocated?


Well before i was on 10psi it hesitated like it does now but before i relocated and while i was on 10psi it didnt hesitate...

[Matrix]

Well before i was on 10psi it hesitated like it does now but before i relocated and while i was on 10psi it didnt hesitate...


Wow, I'm stumped.
Are you double checking for boost leaks, etc.? Maybe try switching to t-bolt clamps instead of worm clamps.
This is weird, I think you're the only case I've heard of where hesitation persisted after MAF relocation.

[vxfilmer1000]

Wow, I'm stumped.
Are you double checking for boost leaks, etc.? Maybe try switching to t-bolt clamps instead of worm clamps.
This is weird, I think you're the only case I've heard of where hesitation persisted after MAF relocation.


Is it maybe beacause my bov and maf are pretty close together, cause i remember reading somewhere that they need to be atleast 3 inchs apart, even tho i dont know why that would make it run more hesitate.

[Matrix]

In your pics, it looks to me like they're more than 3 inches apart.

[srvntfhim]

In your pics, it looks to me like they're more than 3 inches apart.

I'm not all that educated about relocation, but doesn't everyone usually run the bov AFTER the MAF??
If that isn't an issue, I can guarentee you that your worm clamps you are using on your coldpipe vs t-bolt clamps are an issue. check to see if they loosen up after a couple of days of driving. Mine did and my car drove like crap on a stick. I replaced everything after the turbo with t-bolt clamps to hold the psi and I'm running stock boost.

[Matrix]

I'm not all that educated about relocation, but doesn't everyone usually run the bov AFTER the MAF??

Nope.
In the stock setup, the problem is that the BPV is located after the MAF and before the throttle body. The MAF measures a certain amount of air entering the intake. The engine thinks it's going to get that air, but it gets recirculated instead of making it past the throttle body and into the intake manifold. This causes slight hesitation and not-so-great gas mileage because the car is running unnecessarily rich (extra fuel is injected for air that didn't make it to the combustion chamber). When the MAF is relocated to after the BPV/BOV, the engine reads only air that is getting to the throttle body, not measuring air that is vented between shifts. Thus, a more accurate air/fuel ratio is maintained resulting in better fuel mileage and less/no hesitation or stumbling.

[JOMO]

If those are home depot rubber couplers, get rid of them. They suck bigtime.

I had a few on the car when we did my intercooler piping, they tore, blew off. Complete nightmare.

You haven't had any problems with this happening?

[Matrix]

For great deals on silicone couplers, silicone reducers, and T-bolt clamps, check out www.siliconeintakes.com (http://www.siliconeintakes.com)

They've got the best prices I've been able to find on the net, and great customer service.

[srvntfhim]

Nope.
In the stock setup, the problem is that the BPV is located after the MAF and before the throttle body. The MAF measures a certain amount of air entering the intake. The engine thinks it's going to get that air, but it gets recirculated instead of making it past the throttle body and into the intake manifold. This causes slight hesitation and not-so-great gas mileage because the car is running unnecessarily rich (extra fuel is injected for air that didn't make it to the combustion chamber). When the MAF is relocated to after the BPV/BOV, the engine reads only air that is getting to the throttle body, not measuring air that is vented between shifts. Thus, a more accurate air/fuel ratio is maintained resulting in better fuel mileage and less/no hesitation or stumbling.


Well thanks for the correction. I want to do that now too, since the msp hesitates like a mofo when you let off the throttle pretty often. Sucks. I can drive my friend's gti and let off the throttle at almost any speed or rpm and there is no hesitation whatsoever and thats on 20+ psi. You'd think that at 6psi the msp could handle itself!

[vxfilmer1000]

So you guys think these would work alot better and "possibly" solve my problem http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product/000055.htm

[srvntfhim]

So you guys think these would work alot better and "possibly" solve my problem http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product/000055.htm


AND some t-bolt clamps

[vxfilmer1000]

AND some t-bolt clamps


Alright thanks guys...... I get these then give an update. If anyone else has an solutions that might fix the hesitation let me know.

[smo0f]

post update asap!

[Matrix]

So you guys think these would work alot better and "possibly" solve my problem http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product/000055.htm

If you are 100% sure that your pipes are exactly 2.0" outer diameter, then yes - along with t-bolt clamps as someone already mentioned.

Please confirm your hardpipe outer diameter before you purchase. I thought my hardpipes were 2.0" also, but then I measured just before I ordered and the OD was 2.25" (rtfm)

[vxfilmer1000]

If you are 100% sure that your pipes are exactly 2.0" outer diameter, then yes - along with t-bolt clamps as someone already mentioned.

Please confirm your hardpipe outer diameter before you purchase. I thought my hardpipes were 2.0" also, but then I measured just before I ordered and the OD was 2.25" (rtfm)


I will do man thanks

[smo0f]

update?

[vxfilmer1000]

No man I have been really busy with Work and i havn't had a chance to buy the new couplers and t-clamps, but as soon as i get them and put them on. I will give an update.

[msfamilia]

update?

See we are really trying to help a brother out here.......

Someone is more concern than filmer himself..... (headbang)

[vxfilmer1000]

See we are really trying to help a brother out here.......

Someone is more concern than filmer himself..... (headbang)



That is what the Mazda/msprotege.com Family is ABOUT (drinks)

[Matrix]

Hey I finally installed my Injen CAI (temporarily SRI) and hardpipes with MAF relocation today, and I couldn't believe the difference! Throttle response is much improved, shifts are so much better, and the engine runs much smoother. I removed the screen/mesh thing in the MAF, installed the Injen SRI, and put in a TurboXS Type-H BOV.

I highly recommend it!! (thumb)

[Matrix]

I drove my car last night and to work this morning, and I have to tell you guys the difference is like night and day! THIS is how the MSP should have been running in the first place. There's no more herky-jerky feeling under acceleration and boost surge is greatly reduced. The car is just running sooooo much better with much smoother power delivery. I was actually considering selling my MSP because I just didn't like the way it ran, particulary during shifting. After this install I have no plans to part with my car. It runs great and I highly recommend MAF relocation to everyone with an MSP.

[smo0f]

sweet, i am considering doing this. what is the purpose of removing the mesh from the maf? isnt it an air stabilizer?

[ZenProtege]

it takes a lot of the turbulance out of the airflow before it hits the sensor wires in the maf. I would leave it in there, I sure it makes the maf read much more accurately. IIRC, the mesh is glued in there anyways so getting it out would be pretty difficult. It's not like the silencer that DSM's have....

[FlyinMSP]

it takes a lot of the turbulance out of the airflow before it hits the sensor wires in the maf. I would leave it in there, I sure it makes the maf read much more accurately. IIRC, the mesh is glued in there anyways so getting it out would be pretty difficult. It's not like the silencer that DSM's have....

I got mine out easily. The thottle response feels better without the mesh. Mine has been out for 2 years now. I did put it back to double-check a year ago, and I still found the car better without it.

[smo0f]

cool, thanks

[tricky]

I got mine out easily. The thottle response feels better without the mesh. Mine has been out for 2 years now. I did put it back to double-check a year ago, and I still found the car better without it.
Is you MAF relocated as well?

I've been wondering who out there has relocated the MAF for an extended period of time, I'm talking at least 1-2 years, and to see if there have been any bad/negative effects. Anyone's MAF go to poop/fail/die??

[smo0f]

several people have had it over 2 years and had reported no problems or downsides. it sounds like it's definitely worth it

[tricky]

several people have had it over 2 years and had reported no problems or downsides. it sounds like it's definitely worth it
wow, that's kind of what I was thinking being as though no one has posted up with issues. A new MAF is over $200 so I just wanted to be sure the relocation can withstand the test of time. I'm still waying the option of relocating or running the dual BOV/BPV set up. thanks for the info

[smo0f]

well although a bov/bpv setup might be cheaper (somehow, if that's the case), relocating the maf closer to the TB should be better because you are getting the reading of the air right before it enters the TB which yields better afrs and a faster throttle response due to the fact that there is little reaction time needed to dump fuel as per the amount of air entering. whereas with the stock setup, you are measuring air right at the intake, and the ecu reacts quickly to dump fuel but there's a bit of a delay until the air that was read reaches the combustion area to mix with the fuel that was released for that amount of air. i hope that made sense, it seems logical to me.

[FlyinMSP]

Is you MAF relocated as well?


No, it isn't

[FlyinMSP]

wow, that's kind of what I was thinking being as though no one has posted up with issues. A new MAF is over $200 so I just wanted to be sure the relocation can withstand the test of time. I'm still waying the option of relocating or running the dual BOV/BPV set up. thanks for the info


You can always search for a used MAF (all the 2 L are the same) at a scrapyard, just for peace of mind...

[Matrix]

well although a bov/bpv setup might be cheaper (somehow, if that's the case), relocating the maf closer to the TB should be better because you are getting the reading of the air right before it enters the TB which yields better afrs and a faster throttle response due to the fact that there is little reaction time needed to dump fuel as per the amount of air entering. whereas with the stock setup, you are measuring air right at the intake, and the ecu reacts quickly to dump fuel but there's a bit of a delay until the air that was read reaches the combustion area to mix with the fuel that was released for that amount of air. i hope that made sense, it seems logical to me.


Also see post #31 in this thread. (thumb)

[Matrix]

it takes a lot of the turbulance out of the airflow before it hits the sensor wires in the maf. I would leave it in there, I sure it makes the maf read much more accurately. IIRC, the mesh is glued in there anyways so getting it out would be pretty difficult. It's not like the silencer that DSM's have....

Mine came out pretty easily. I just poked it with a screwdriver and it popped right out.

I think most air stabilizers are worthless. Just like that bogus product called "The Tornado" which the makers claim will increase horsepower by smoothing out the airflow. This doesn't make any difference, as the airflow in the intake manifold will be the same whether you "stabilize" it before the throttle body or not. It just becomes another restriction to airflow that I can do without. Besides, the car is running great.

[smo0f]

Also see post #31 in this thread. (thumb)

Actually, you say that air gets recirculated or blown off whether you have a bov or bpv before it reaches the throttle body. It doesn't. The air that's recirc'd or blown off is air that has hit the TB when it shut and flows back. The reason why there's hesistation/stumbling is because of the turbulence caused by this that affects the next 'batch' of air that was read by the MAF as it hits the air exiting. Something like that. At least that's what makes sense to me.

[nvmsp]

So say i wanted to relocate the MAF with my HiBoost pipes. What would I need to do in order to make everything work without running into issues like stuff not fitting right etc. ???

[smo0f]

measure twice cut once

[mspHtown]

So say i wanted to relocate the MAF with my HiBoost pipes. What would I need to do in order to make everything work without running into issues like stuff not fitting right etc. ???

i have the hiboost kit and i dont think i have enough room between the TB and the bov. Some of the kits have the BOV mounted too close to the TB.

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Not sure if anyone else noticed this... But your BOV may be too close to your MAF... Maybe why it hesitates more...¿

[smo0f]

yeah, it is recommended that you move/put your bov on the hotpipe

[MazdaSpeedSter]

yeah, it is recommended that you move/put your bov on the hotpipenaw... just a little farther from the MAF then where it is should be fine... that way the air isn't being sucked out through the MAF still.

[Velocifero]

I am looking for anyone with the DSM hard pipes, what reducer did you use? Thanks-Scott.

[Matrix]

Actually, you say that air gets recirculated or blown off whether you have a bov or bpv before it reaches the throttle body. It doesn't. The air that's recirc'd or blown off is air that has hit the TB when it shut and flows back. The reason why there's hesistation/stumbling is because of the turbulence caused by this that affects the next 'batch' of air that was read by the MAF as it hits the air exiting. Something like that. At least that's what makes sense to me.

Sorry, man. I have to disagree with you there. The BOV opens when the manifold pressure sensor reads a vacuum in the IM. That just happens to be when the TB closes, but the BOV is not opened by the TB closing. So most of the air that is vented is additional pressure being sent by the turbo (air that the MAF reads but never makes it to the engine).

[smo0f]

Hey. No need to apologize. I usually just make up shit based on logic and hope that other people buy it and hope that it makes me look smart. I thought this was the general theme of the forums. I guess it's bad practice. Thanks for correcting me though.

[Velocifero]

so do you think it would make a big deal if I inserted an extra maf in the original maf spot to fill that space? it wouldn't be hooked up obviously, just a direct size replacement for the functioning maf i am moving to cold pipe. I dont think the turbulance created would effect it later down since it is before the turbo, no?

and are there any other opinions to removing the mesh insert from the maf right before the TB?