********** Forged Block Rebuild

[EmRidMSP]

Okay, so I've got like 8 pages devoted to my engine making like a pineapple grenade. Now it's time to look for a new engine because MazdaUSA is no longer my friend. haha

I've been looking at a few different options.
1) As the title betrays, I'm looking into getting the *************** rebuild. You can find it here (http://www.***************/product_p/fssu.htm). The block itself looks very solid and the internals look like they will be able to handle almost anything you want to throw at it - within reason. I'd like to be running 16psi or so down the road and this would be the engine I'd like to have for that. But the cost is almost prohibitive for me right now.... even though MazdaUSA wants $4500 for a new stock one. BWAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!!! Yeah Right.

2) I could goto a junkyard and pull the motor out of a P5 or something along those lines. Wouldn't cost me NEARLY as much but it would still be a motor involved in a wreck bad enough to total the car....

3) Do something similar to the last one, except just salvage the parts that I needed and rebuild it from scratch and reinstall the turbo and everything myself. Parts needed include: New Bottom End, Crank, Rods, Pistons, possible bearings....

4) Buy a short block rebuild for around $600 and pay out my butthole to have it shipped to Arizona.

What I would like to know is whether or not anyone has purchased one of these *************** motors. Experiences with them? They look very tempting. I was wondering if these motors make more power for the displacement or if it is just a well-built FS motor.
Also, for you ********** dudes that hang out here: Theoretically, what kind of cost would I be looking at to have you guys up the engine to 2.1L on the engine as is? I would assume the cost of different pistons, etc would be included? I will accept ballpark estimates...

[brealmp3]

yes they are located right in arizona too. www.*******************************, get up with tekkie or jeph both are running one of his built motors and could provide you with some info.

[EmRidMSP]

Yeah I know Beau down at MAM. The only problem is that his motors, when the day is done, are still more expensive. **********'s is barely within my grasp for cost, and MAM's just isn't going to cut the mustard.

[Puckpimp71]

MAM's are about $100 than SU's more on the website... 2895-2795 I'm guessing that the $100 more list will be made up in shipping.

[Captain KRM P5]

i am sure beau can cut down the costs for a local guy, it would be worth giving him a ring and seeing what was what on it

[EmRidMSP]

MAM's are about $100 than SU's more on the website... 2895-2795 I'm guessing that the $100 more list will be made up in shipping.

SU's motor has free shipping. Even if its not free, they list shipping at $160. Plus the core charge is around $250 (I think). MAM's core charge is $500 unshipped. So MAM's may end up being more expensive.

However you are correct - I'm gonna talk to Beau. I'm with AZ Mazda and he knows us well.... lol

[daedalus]

talk to beau... go with MAM... at least for the block... Mental addiction does sooo much more to their blocks than sipmly slap some internals in them... the machine work done to the block alone is worth the extra couple bucks. Your bottom end isnt something you want to skimp on with the MSP, pay the extra hundred and feel safe knowing you are having the definitive best block for your msp that money can buy.

[65racecoupe]

The machine work in Beau's block is top notch. There are a lot of people running the MAM block now, and a lot more really soon.

[03MSP]

I have a MAM block ordered; the work done to them just seems sooo complete.

[BOOSTR]

Arizona is the perfect place to find junkyard gems. There has to be many great machine shops in AZ. Anyone of them that does good work could build you an engine with the right parts. Or like others have said you could go with the MAM block. They do great work and know how to build a stout motor.

[mazdaspeed75]

i think su uses mam to build there motors.

[safariMP3]

would you really want to "go cheaper" when building an engine? I think not.

the engine rebuild is NOT A PLACE to cheap out.

[Brian MP5T]

I bought a block and ordered Pistons and Rods from Beau. Then had some wokd done and assembled it.. No Biggie.

[spacemonkey]

i think su uses mam to build there motors.

not really because whats with the price difference?

- SU uses Pauter rods. MAM doesnt even carry pauter in stock. he uses his own H-beam rods with 8:5:1 Weisco pistons. Only other protege tuner company to use pauter rods is HiBoost and Modern performance. Hiboost dont really sell short blocks. they sell rods and piston packages (pauter rods and stock pistons machines to 8:5:1 compression and ceramic coated). Modern performance I dont know too much about but I believe its pauter rods and CP pistons?

- SU uses Cleveite Bearings. MAM uses toda racing bearings.

- SU doesnt even mention the much debated thrust bearing issue

- I think MAM charges $500 for core.


Also Modern Performances sells short blocks...fastlane runs a Modern performance block.

Maybe worth the look/buying if youre not needing a crazy strong engine. Jsut depends on your goals.

I dont know much about SU's block but I would assume its built locally in Orlando (not 100% sure). and we have some top notch import engine builders here...titan motorsports, Enjuku, and CFT are just some names to begin with. But I hear Beaus block is top notch the machine work/tolerences are fantastic.

[smo0f]

Modern performance I dont know too much about but I believe its pauter rods and CP pistons?


plus oliver and manley rods too. i got the manley rods

[brealmp3]

plus you get the safety of knowing that if you ever need anything or may have some unforseen weird issue in the future his shop is right down the road!

[EmRidMSP]

Wow.... seems to be overwhelming response for MAM... So what is the wait like for one of his engines. I imagine he doesn't have a stockpile sitting around his shop - and SU's? I need an engine soon and I don't have 3 months to dork around waiting for one to be finished.

Looks like I may be doin a little bit of junkyard diving.

[Mental Addiction]

Our motors are $2895 and have a $500 core charge. Since you are local we waive the core charge(we know we will get the core once you install the new one). Our motors have a lead time of 3-4 months right now. However we are working on bringing that done. We are now stocking Wiseco pistons and H-bem rods. This alone will take 4-6 weeks off the current motor lead times.

[tekkie]

I dont know anything about the SU motor, I dont know if anyone here even has one so I am not going to commend on there's.

But I can vouche for mental addition, I am in the process right now of building my motor up, sometime next month I should have the beast up and running :)

[mspHtown]

does MAM do all their work in shop (for example the machine work) or do they ship the blocks to machine shops and then assemble them?

[spacemonkey]

Why doesnt MAM use CP Pistons aymore ?

I assume to save money...unless you are looking for 1500 hp I dont think you need CP pistons and Oliver rods. Beau said his internals are good enough for most HP figures members are looking for. Obviouslly not as much a oliver and CP combo. I believe you can still order Oliver and CP. H-beam Weisco is an alternative so he can keep them in stock.

the man will do anything...If you want 2 more cylinders welded on im sure Beau will find some way of doing it.

[nvmsp]

MaM, whats up with the custom 6-cylinder protege haha.

[03MSP]

does MAM do all their work in shop (for example the machine work) or do they ship the blocks to machine shops and then assemble them?

From what I understand, all the work is done at the MAM shop; that's the reason for the wait times but also for the great quality...it's his name on the line so he gets it done right.

[spacemonkey]

MaM, whats up with the custom 6-cylinder protege haha.

if you want 16 clyinder FWD car (W16) with 16 T88H turbos (1 for each cylinder) Beau will make it happen.

[Jeph]

I saw my name earlier, so i figure i better give my input. MAM's blocks are top notch. I have had mine since julky of last year, and will be running 15 lbs of boost on a GT28RS very shortly (like now) so it is built to handle whatever you can throw at it.
He doesn't use CP pistons or Oliver rods anymore because the H beams and Wisecos are more than enough to support the power levels that most proteges could handle.

[brealmp3]

that was me that mentioned your name! and when did i miss the the month of julky?

[Jeph]

LOL July, typing fast....

[tekkie]

yeah I love Julky thats my favorite month haha

I will be throwing 25psi on my GT2871R real soon :D I think that will be a good test

[nvmsp]

You bastards, I can't wait till I have a built motor so I don't have to worry about this stock motor leaving me calling my dad to pick me up lol.

[65racecoupe]

i think su uses mam to build there motors.

No.

[EmRidMSP]

I'm talking to MAM right now to see what I can work out. We'll see.

[Jeph]

I'm talking to MAM right now to see what I can work out. We'll see.

Good call :)
You won't be dissapointed

[livelyjay]

If I don't end up taking care of the build with local shops, I'll probably go with the MAM block. I plan on finding a motor from a scrap yard myself, or just pulling mine when I have another car to use. Then I'll use some local shops to do all the assembly and machine work.

I've found the best way to go is to go with the company that has been doing it the longest, which would be MAM in this case.

[EmRidMSP]

Well you can say that you don't need forged parts for the interior unless you're running high HP applications.... but I bet you haven't shot a rod through your block yet have you? lol My next motor WILL have forged internals and an upgraded crank if at all possible.

[EmRidMSP]

Well you can say that you don't need forged parts for the interior unless you're running high HP applications.... but I bet you haven't shot a rod through your block yet have you? lol My next motor WILL have forged internals and an upgraded crank if at all possible.

[65racecoupe]

To save money for MAM or the customers? Because I would think if you were using "cheaper" parts the overall cost of the shortblock would decrese and yet the price has remained the same with pistons and rods that cost less.


It is not that they are cheaper or of less quality, it is that it is easier to get the pistons.

You guys assume too much.

[65racecoupe]

Wesico Pistons are just as strong as CP, and MAMs H-beam rods are the same quality as oliver rods ?

And regaurdless of quality, if one product costs more than another why are people basically paying the same price for them

When you can set the prices for MAM, let me know.

You also don't know when a dealer can get deals on pieces and when they can't. It is not linear across the board.

[ghettobubba2001]

FBI is mr smartypants who needs to get smacked by supermods!(shocked)

[65racecoupe]

When you stop acting like a dick, maybe you can just help me understand this better.

The Difference between the Oliver Rods and H-Beam Rods if you look on MAMs site is $200 alone. I just thought the price would have dropped more on their blocks than what it did.

I am sorry, but it is almost like you were trying to start something.

I do not set the prices, Beau does. If he responds, then so be it.
Prices go up, prices go down, be it for materials (see the carbon fiber trend) or just by the manufacturer.

The prices could have been cheaper for the pistons when Beau first bought them.

I don't want to clutter up this thread with arguements.

[65racecoupe]

According to Mental Addiction they dropped the price on the motor by $100 since the H-beams are alittle cheaper. However machine work and other material prices went up. This is why the motor is $2895.

[spacemonkey]

didnt mam say they use another machine shop to do some of their machine work to cut the waiting time. Or thats what he said he was gonna do.

I dont want to start rumors so I'll let beau chime in

[65racecoupe]

didnt mam say they use another machine shop to do some of their machine work to cut the waiting time. Or thats what he said he was gonna do.

I dont want to start rumors so I'll let beau chime in

I will let Beau answer this one. I will say that machining the block takes a long time. Not so much in the work, but the workload of the machine shop and the "priority" of the blocks (30 engines from one company takes priority over 10 from another).

FBI - No harm no foul. You can't hear voice tone on the net.(enguard) I didn't mean to sound mean. Peace.

[JDM Sam]

If you don't like the prices, find a machine shop and do it yourself. Add up the costs for parts & labor for assembling a short block then you can come back and tell us how much you saved.

[65racecoupe]

If you don't like the prices, find a machine shop and do it yourself. Add up the costs for parts & labor for assembling a short block then you can come back and tell us how much you saved.
...and hope the machine shop is worth a damn.

[low_psi]

its not THAT hard to find a competant machine shop.

[Mental Addiction]

didnt mam say they use another machine shop to do some of their machine work to cut the waiting time. Or thats what he said he was gonna do.

I dont want to start rumors so I'll let beau chime in

Correct.

[Drumfreak]

I'm looking around for a built motor also. Just to get this correct it would be $3395 charged to my cc shipped then? With 500 refundable when the core is returned? That would include everything I would need to put it right into the car. Besides like a gasket kit obviously.

[65racecoupe]

I'm looking around for a built motor also. Just to get this correct it would be $3395 charged to my cc shipped then? With 500 refundable when the core is returned? That would include everything I would need to put it right into the car. Besides like a gasket kit obviously.

You get a built block, that is all. There is not special kit involved. Engine goes out, engine goes in.

[Rawyzf]

You get a built block, that is all. There is not special kit involved. Engine goes out, engine goes in.

So....as Drumfreak mentioned....

(Sorry for the maybe stupid question)

What else do you need to swap the MAM motor with the stock one?

[pluto316]

If you don't like the prices, find a machine shop and do it yourself. Add up the costs for parts & labor for assembling a short block then you can come back and tell us how much you saved.

I saved up to 15% on my car insurance!

[Jeph]

So....as Drumfreak mentioned....

(Sorry for the maybe stupid question)

What else do you need to swap the MAM motor with the stock one?

A engine hoist, and thats it, you pull the old one out, and put the new one in. No new gaskets or anything are needed.

[StreetUnit]

Oh look at this thread! Let me read it over...

We are stocking forged blocks, ready to order now. Have to call to inquire, not on the site yet. It is also different than the block rebuild thats on the site now.

9:1 wiseco, std bore
pauter rods
arp headstuds
clevite rod bearings
clevite main bearings
clevite thrust washers
oil/water pump if needed

[Rawyzf]

A engine hoist, and thats it, you pull the old one out, and put the new one in. No new gaskets or anything are needed.

Interesting....

Is EMS needed then?

[Jeph]

I don't think so technically if you are getting stock compression and not changing rod length or anything. If you are building a block, you really should have an EMS to be able to turn up the boost.

[Jeph]

Oh look at this thread! Let me read it over...

We are stocking forged blocks, ready to order now. Have to call to inquire, not on the site yet. It is also different than the block rebuild thats on the site now.

9:1 wiseco, std bore
pauter rods
arp headstuds
clevite rod bearings
clevite main bearings
clevite thrust washers
oil/water pump if needed

You're stocking blocks? so they are already prebuilt?

std bore? so stock bore? Stock bore is can be dangerous with forged pistons can't it?

[s6m1l88]

he said they're ready to order, not ready to ship

[Drumfreak]

A engine hoist, and thats it, you pull the old one out, and put the new one in. No new gaskets or anything are needed.
So you would want to reuse the gasket between the head and block. They are obviously just shipping blocks wothout the head attached, right? Maybe a new gasket as a precaution then.

[Jeph]

Welcome to the forums. If the are stocking b locks, then thats means they have the built block on the shelf ready to ship it to you.

he said they're ready to order, not ready to ship


Oh look at this thread! Let me read it over...

We are stocking forged blocks, ready to order now. Have to call to inquire, not on the site yet. It is also different than the block rebuild thats on the site now.

9:1 wiseco, std bore
pauter rods
arp headstuds
clevite rod bearings
clevite main bearings
clevite thrust washers
oil/water pump if needed

[StreetUnit]

just a sec guys, its a typical monday here.

[StreetUnit]

EMS would be recommended. Block is going in thursday. Headgasket is aftermarket and is 84mm.

[JDM Sam]

What everyone needs to know for both these blocks are some of the clearances and what assembly/machine work is done with them.

Piston to bore clearance, crank/rod bearing journal clearance, & piston ring gap are some of the important ones. Do these blocks come with clearance spec sheets for each individual engine?

[StreetUnit]

What everyone needs to know for both these blocks are some of the clearances and what assembly/machine work is done with them.

Piston to bore clearance, crank/rod bearing journal clearance, & piston ring gap are some of the important ones. Do these blocks come with clearance spec sheets for each individual engine?

sure no prob, i will get the specs as soon as possible.

[StreetUnit]

here is the motor...
http://www.***************/product_p/sufs20t.htm

Specs and dynos are almost ready. Motor is going in the MSP now.

[nvmsp]

so you actually use a whole new block? unlike everyone else?

[Jeph]

So you're making a huge initial investment into a small market to STOCK built engines to sit on a shelf?
And you are doing this basically in the dark, becuz if the engine is built, you should already have the specs. Or even if its not built you should be able to provide the specs you wanted from the builder...
I understand not having a dyno for it, but not having any specs seems ridiculous.

[StreetUnit]

So you're making a huge initial investment into a small market to STOCK built engines to sit on a shelf?
And you are doing this basically in the dark, becuz if the engine is built, you should already have the specs. Or even if its not built you should be able to provide the specs you wanted from the builder...
I understand not having a dyno for it, but not having any specs seems ridiculous.

Yes, I just do not have the #s yet though. The motors will come with current tolerences and are measured to Wiseco, Pauter, and Mazda specs. Info will get posted as it arrives on my desk.

[Jeph]

Cool, so they are mazda specs. Probably not overbored to make more clearance for the forged pistons?