MSP or Celica GT-S/WRX

[answerX]

Hi. Im looking into getting a MSP and just wanted to ask a few questions before I make my purchase. I know the MSP handles better than both the GT-S and WRX when theyr all stock. But how does it compare to them with a few light suspension mods? Like rear sway bar, smaller front sway bar, etc, nothing like new springs/shocks. Also with these suspension mods could I also put them on the MSP to make it handle even better? Thanks.

BTW Im only worried about the handling/suspension/braking/steering. Any comments about these are welcomed.

[Puckpimp71]

I think that the GT-S modded will have more handling potential than the other two since it's about 2500 pounds and has a decent factory set-up. Even stock for stock it's pretty close to the MSP. If I had the money, I'd get the Celica for day to day and build a WRX up, but the MSP is a nice combo of power/suspension and good system.
*edit*
I just saw that you were talking about light suspension mods, so I think the MSP has an edge.

[speedprotegewi]

my brother's '02 wrx (with suspension mods) > my msp (stock suspension) > friend's srt-4 acr

msp's i would give the (first) to in fwd handling, but any awd will drive circles around us given the proper driver and equivalent suspension mods

[Puckpimp71]

He was just talking about sway bars and the lighter stuff, though the front sway bar looks like a bitch to get at. AWD would own with coilover etc... but I don't think he was looking to take it that far.

[answerX]

I would probably do tires and sway bars and maybe strut bars. But I wouldnt replace the springs/shocks, it would cost too much.

[speedprotegewi]

my brother's wrx only has springs, upper bars f+r, lower sway bars f+r. i guess the big thing for wrx's is to change the stock setup by raking it more to the front - it helps alot with the stability in turns. the best is when he has the stock rims and re92's on for winter he can roll the tire about half the way down the sidewall in turns lol

[jred321]

i too would bet wrx. driving feel the msp will win but actual handling a wrx with good tires and some other light work will take it

[speedprotegewi]

driving feel the msp will win

(mswerd) they have a wierd feel in comparison to msp's, like its not gonna respond the way you expect it to. also wrx's u almost have to get used to driving them due to their lack of synchros in 1st. literally have to be goin <5mph to move the shifter to 1st gear. it may be different on the new ones, but i know my brother complains about his 02 alot, he will drive my car and say "ahh its nice to have synchros"

[mspHtown]

my friend has a stock 03 wrx and my msp with stock suspension is far superior to the wrx.

[Captain KRM P5]

handling or not, the GT-S is a low end dog. i used to hunger for a silver celica GT-S until i drove one. mid and top end power with that endless RPM band is nice but i can't see how people would want to autocross such a car.

[Puckpimp71]

That's why I'm not saving up for one. It's a neat looking car with a nice interior, but it needs some love on the bottom. :-)

[vcinsanity1523]

i would honestly say either MSP or WRX depending on your needs bump the celica gts i drove one and wasn't impressed at all

[answerX]

Thanks for all the great replies. Looks like MSP's stock suspension is the best(respectively) and with new shocks/springs the nod goes to the WRX.

One more question I have. I REALLY want this car that im about to mention but it does come with a lot of problems including theft, availability and insurance. The ITR. Has anyone drove it? I searched Honda-Tech and a member that has a ITR also had a MSP. He said the MSP had more body roll but the steering was quicker and felt better. He also said the MSP had more grip due to the tires I guess, and the MSP has a lower center of gravity. Whats your guys's opinion? THanks again.

[speedprotegewi]

only integra i ever drove was a late 90's gsr and it was decent but quite sloppy stock, im assuming being so light, with some supension mods it could be very good yes

[answerX]

GSR's are very sloppy. My friend has one and it plows more than a stock WRX.

[Earful]

Never drove an ITR, but had a Honda coupe with LS/VTEC swap. Good luck trying to find one. MSP's are also rare, but easier to find than ITR. I love my MSP! By the way, my Honda was stolen...

[ping]

MSP has the best FWD road feel and responsiveness, even (hurts to say this) better than a MiniS. Close, but better. Both feel like go-karts, the MSP more so. As a result, the MSP is a little darty on the highway, and lacks the availability of cruise control (makes up for it wit sound system, I guess, and better seats with lower cushion rake adjust - missing on the Subie). Also, when modded, the trans and LSD are known weak points.

WRX may be sturdier, of course has AWD and more power, and better aftermarket support. It's a little softer feeling, less darty, has cc available, and is a "makes sense" sort of small performance car. It's also costlier. Stiffen up the suspension and replace the WRX steering rack with an STi one (quicker ratio) and they're nice. Consider the Saab 9-2 turbo - it's a WRX, but with the STi steering rack and some nice Swedish-inspired (think "Ikea") interior goodies. Still no rake adjust on the bottom seat cushion (last year anyway, don't know if they added it). they had some nice financing and discounts on those last year.

ITR? also sturdy, a little cheaper feeling (tinny Honda doors), and you see them (or various forms of them) everywhere. They last forever.

Celica? No bottom-end grunt, feels like you're driving in a bathtub, VVT engine needs the whee revved out of it to feel powerful, looks great, a little more boy-racerish when modded, a little too "secretarial pool" with skinny tires.

If you're really spending, there's a dealer (3 Rivers VW) in Pittsburgh that has a 30-mile R32 in silver with leather for 27,900 that they've been advertising for months... they may deal... and those are unbelievable-sweet.

[answerX]

Thanks ping. Im not trying to start a fight, but some of the things you said seem to contradict what I have seen/heard about. Fron one I dont think the ITR has a cheaper feeling than the MSP, I think the MSP has a more cheaper feeling. And I also dont see how the GT-S is like driving a bathtub, that thing is way lighter than the MSP and rougly 70-80 pounds lighter than the ITR.

[answerX]

ping, thanks for letting me know about the R32. But thats going to be out of my budget, even the WRX is pushing it.

[Puckpimp71]

I've driven the R32 a few times and I don't like it... It just rides awkward. It's not a bad car by any means, but I'm not a fan. Maybe after HPA has a go with it...

[daperspeed]

Thanks ping. Im not trying to start a fight, but some of the things you said seem to contradict what I have seen/heard about. Fron one I dont think the ITR has a cheaper feeling than the MSP, I think the MSP has a more cheaper feeling. And I also dont see how the GT-S is like driving a bathtub, that thing is way lighter than the MSP and rougly 70-80 pounds lighter than the ITR.

Hey my man what's up?. I think that what Ping was trying to say about the Celica being a "bathtub" was not so much the handling BUT the interior, its kinda weird and low with bad visibility. :) And on that I agree with him. And usually only little chicks drive them...at least thats what I've seen in my neck of the woods AND my frequent travels...:)

About the ITR: I like this car. Amazing machine. It is more raw than the MSP but IMHO the MSP has a more tossable feel. Very close though. But you know, its becoming an old car and they are very rare. However even at its age, if you can find a well kept one...I'd bet its more realiable than our MSP's. I agree with you that its not any less cheap the MSP despite its age...the MSP ultimately is still a Protege.

Bottom line time. I like the performance of the MSP stock to stock versus those other 2 cars you mentioned. However, like everything in life there is a compromise. The MSP is more problematic than a Honda and Toyota obviously...we are seeing that as our MSPs age. My other car is an EVO MR...honestly its the most fun car Ive ever driven. In the world. Its that good. I could have bought more expensive cars but I go with feeling and fun and look under the surface.
Anyways in my experience though, Mitsubishi and Mazda are pretty shady in their dealings. Both are really bad.Look around here or check out the EVO forums for denied warranty work(Mitsu even denied some that were simply auto-x'ed). However they both made 2 cars that I feel are super fun and no one can deny that. So....weigh the options AND just think carefully buddy...thats what its all about...

[answerX]

Another excellent post. Thanks. I promise this is my last question. daperspeed, would you say the ITR is more raw then the MR?

[ping]

Daperspeed read me right - my "bathtub" comment was re/ the low seating position and high windowsills. Also agreed, I see many more women driving them than men, though the wide-tired (GT?) version is more male.

The MR is another amazing car, but for that money it's still a Lancer, albeit an awe-inspiring one. That's no slam on the Evo MR (or STi - both are favorites of mine), but rather an agreement with Car and Driver on this point: If you want to go around (or down) a racetrack faster, for same-to-less total money, get a Vette or GTO or the equivalent. There's no replacement for displacement.

That said, in my mind there's no replacement for "agility" - which is why my money will be in a smaller, lighter, more agile car - with room for a kid or friend (or two) to come along...

[We Are Ninja]

...That said, in my mind there's no replacement for "agility" - which is why my money will be in a smaller, lighter, more agile car - with room for a kid or friend (or two) to come along...
Very well put. That's the reason I bought a MSP over the Celica, SRT-4, and, well, basically everything else on the market. You can always make more power, but it's hard to perfect a chassis...

My .02: I haven't driven a WRX, but I owned a 02 2.5RS for 5 years. They aren't the same, but they're pretty similar. The car developed pings, rattles, and strange grinding noises over the course of 90,000 miles, but it didn't really give me any grief. It handled like a drunk elephant in comparison to the MSP, though. It did as it was asked at all times, but where as the MSP's steering response is damn near telepathic, the RS was slow-witted. I had to plan simple movements (like lane changes) in advance, where in the MSP, it takes a flick of the wrist... The MSP is proactive where the RS was reactive. I'm sure the WRX is a little better in the handling department, but you'll probably have to tune out some oversteer. Plus with AWD, that's more drivetrain to care for and more tire wear. Oh, and the brakes aren't the best, either. Still, I did enjoy the Suby.