Why is everyone blowing their MSPs?

[cycoutMSP03.5]

I have been reading a lot about blown MSP engines (shocked) Whats goin on? I'm startin to get a lil worried. Currently, i have a 03.5 MSP with 58k on it. So i'm hoping mine isn't the next to go.

I wanted to know why people r blowing thier engines and is it because of too much tuning or aftermarket shit.... or if msp r really that shitty


thanks
(mp3yellow

[Dr.Sound]

< 11 lb boost + no tuning = cablamo!


....in most cases ;)

[blthlt]

basically, stock block with any more than stock boost = pushing the motor.

[JOMO]

Yes, a good engine management is what is needed. Alot of people overboost without having the supporting mods and tuning done. Or in some cases, people have blown motors on stock boost.

Also wasnt there a problem with blown motors with oil starvation. I remember reading many posts that people were blowing motors on sharp turns while going at a good speed.. Maybe someone can put in more detail about this.

[65racecoupe]

basically, stock block with any more than stock boost = pushing the motor.

Same engine as my 107 Wheel Hp P5. It was not designed to be beat on with a lot of hp.

If you want anything that is concidered FAST, you need a built block and good engine management.

I am soon to install an AEM and MAM block.

[Dr.Sound]

Same engine as my 107 Wheel Hp P5. It was not designed to be beat on with a lot of hp.

If you want anything that is concidered FAST, you need a built block and good engine management.

I am soon to install an AEM and MAM block.
or a 4g63 :P

[blthlt]

or a 4g63 :POnly if you want a granny car!

[joka1]

ya too much boost, not enough experience tuning.
mine is abt to blow but i will bury it with honors since it should have blown abt a yr ago.

[Kansei]

ya too much boost, not enough experience tuning.
mine is abt to blow but i will bury it with honors since it should have blown abt a yr ago.

You're still running around at 20+ psi? How the hell is it lasting?


Also wasnt there a problem with blown motors with oil starvation. I remember reading many posts that people were blowing motors on sharp turns while going at a good speed.. Maybe someone can put in more detail about this.

This happens to us NA people as well, hence the AWR baffled oil pan. If only someone would produce an oil pan with trap doors in it, a lot better than the baffled pans from what I've read and been told. I saw one and it looked really good, but to mass produce it it would still end up costing like 800 or so IIRC.

I figure the AWR is fine for what most people on here need, but not for professional FS-DE racing applications.

[EmRidMSP]

My motor blew at 43000 because, in my own opinion, of some previous detonation issues I had with my car. I think that weakened the rods enough that it finally just blew apart after too much stress on a weakened piece. My car was bone stock when it exploded. I just had some bad luck with spark plug fouling that led to the demise of my engine.

[joka1]

ya i am running 28 psi at full throttle, i try to keep it around 18 psi. but everyday i tend to go full throttle and hit 25-28 psi. i dont know. i have a friend who will come and tow me when it blows and i have a trailer following me when i go to the track.

[Dr.Sound]

^ O.m.g.

[65racecoupe]

ya i am running 28 psi at full throttle, i try to keep it around 18 psi. but everyday i tend to go full throttle and hit 25-28 psi. i dont know. i have a friend who will come and tow me when it blows and i have a trailer following me when i go to the track.

What do you run?

[joka1]

i am tuned right i guess since i dont hit fuel cut or detonate at 28 psi. it is bad ass seeing my boost guage maxed out. my guage only goes to 20 psi. i am tracking down a digital video camera to get some video b4 it blows. the only way i know i hit 28.9 psi is i look at my ebc which saves the last highest boost level. it is fun as hell when i get traction btw;)
rob

[joka1]

What do you run?

i have not had time to go to the track but i will be going this month. so i will know for sure. i would go to the dyno but i dont think my motor will survive a run
rob

[JOMO]

Holy moly thats alot of boost. You must get a vid before your engine goes.

[joka1]

like i said i will. i will try to get a pic of the boost guage since i have a digi camera and i should have a vid camera this weekend.

[PHRiSCo]

Holy crap everyone on here must be really stupid.

All you "tuners" should be ashamed of yourselves, even me with 2 blown engines. 505Zoom you're so lame at 12psi on stock engine, look what joka is doing!

This is magic tuning from never never land, where can I get some fairy dust dude?

Sorry Rob couldn't help myself. Hope to see you at SCN. We can race your 28+psi stock on my 12-14psi MAM that would be cool.

[joka1]

lol, hey i was running 12 psi for a full yr w/o any problems....... i dunno.... i wont be at scn, i promised the promoters of global i would be thier. same night. my bad......... i am not saying my motor will not blow, hell i am already having issues.
my wastegate is not working and i have been to lazy to fix it. a t3/t04e will hit huge boost numbers so the highest i let it go was 28.9........... now i am just going with the flow since my car is still running decent at the higher boost
i must have found some fairy dust
i dont know but it seems to work.

[505zoom]

Hmm, 28psi with the stock MAF?

[Bigg Tim]

what kind of timing are you pulling? As for the MAF, non-msp's are different a lil, I NEVER see 5v on my MAF input when I have seen 5.1v on a stock boosted MSP. It has to be something with the ECU programming. MSP's have fuel cut, other protege's don't. I'm assuming it's mazda programing the over 5v limit to trigger the cut.

[FBI14]

Same engine as my 107 Wheel Hp P5. It was not designed to be beat on with a lot of hp.

If you want anything that is concidered FAST, you need a built block and good engine management.

I am soon to install an AEM and MAM block.
Built and tuned doesnt always always guarantee no blown engine

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123630321



I know your aware and informed about all this and the chances are signifcantly lowered to blowning your engine with a bulit and tuned engine but our engines are extremely fickle to say the least

[clipse99]

Built and tuned doesnt always always guarantee no blown engine

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123630321



I know your aware and informed about all this and the chances are signifcantly lowered to blowning your engine with a bulit and tuned engine but our engines are extremely fickle to say the least

i'm taking it easy on my motor right now, till i get money to buy another block to build. Then i'll race that one till it dies.

[smo0f]

My motor blew at 43000 because, in my own opinion, of some previous detonation issues I had with my car. I think that weakened the rods enough that it finally just blew apart after too much stress on a weakened piece. My car was bone stock when it exploded. I just had some bad luck with spark plug fouling that led to the demise of my engine.

same thing happened with me at 45k miles, due to spark plug issues, but i didnt change the oil as much as i should've which didn't help either. bone stock except for CAI and exhaust, which i guess makes it not bone stock

[Jeph]

Built and tuned doesnt always always guarantee no blown engine

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123630321



I know your aware and informed about all this and the chances are signifcantly lowered to blowning your engine with a bulit and tuned engine but our engines are extremely fickle to say the least

But that was on a track, close to redline in 5th gear. Thats never a good idea.

[FBI14]

But that was on a track, close to redline in 5th gear. Thats never a good idea.

Theres several other cases of built and tuned engines blowing

[Brian MP5T]

I have been reading a lot about blown MSP engines (shocked) Whats goin on? Holy Fuck, Where have you been for the last three years..

[dirtysouth_msp]

Mine blew due to a wrist pin defect...

[otmsp]

why are msp`s blowing up? well lets see! ummmmmmmmm cause fsde+psi=BOOM BOM

[65racecoupe]

Built and tuned doesnt always always guarantee no blown engine

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123630321



I know your aware and informed about all this and the chances are signifcantly lowered to blowning your engine with a bulit and tuned engine but our engines are extremely fickle to say the least

That doesn't mean power and reliability can't be had. My MAM block is just a little more than new pistons and rods.

[Jackelope]

I ran mine through tail of the dragon, staying between 4k-5k in 2nd most of the time, didnt blow ;) - guess i got lucky! - "lightly" modded MSP, no cats/aerospeed exhaust/apex dpipe/light flywheel/cone filter

[Newf]

no issues here at all....knock on wood.

My car is not driven hard and stock boost. It should last forever really.

[sweetlou69]

famous last words...

[FBI14]

That doesn't mean power and reliability can't be had. My MAM block is just a little more than new pistons and rods.

For us power and reliablity dont exactly go hand in hand all that often. Hell relability in general isnt a word used for our cars

[Brian MP5T]

Boom

[Dr.Sound]

...because turbo was built for the engine, and not the other way arround.

[Kansei]

Hell relability in general isnt a word used for our cars

Quite the contrary. I think it was Consumer Reports that rated the Protege as a top pick noting it's excellent reliability. Maybe MSPs are excluded in that, not that I trust Consumer Reports or would listen to any of their BS.

[Dr.Sound]

protege != MSP in reliability at all.

[Kansei]

It's sad too, because it isn't that much different. aside from turbo-related engine problems, I don't see why it should be worse than a standard protege.

I need an MSP owner to list all the typical MSP problems, because there must be a lot more than the clunk, hesitation, flashed vs. non-flashed ECU (related to hesistation? I dunno), and heatsoak with the side IC.

[MSPRO]

I am about to hit 99k on the car tonight most likely and I am still on the stock motor. I have run 10-12psi daily, and up to 15psi for track days. It has had higher boost since Jan 04 and it had only 6k miles then. I have had zero problems with it, I did have a Uni-chip when running the highest boost settings but I sold that about a year and a half ago now. I have broken the LSD, I think my 2nd clutch is starting to go out- Spec with 50k miles, that should explain it hehe, and I had to replace a wheel bearing but thats it.As far as the typical problems, I had the clunk, but I took care of that, I am flashed so thats ok, and yeah the radio wacks out sometimes but to me they are all bearable. Hell I just got done driving almost a 1500 mile road trip from Cincy to Chicago to Dallas in it and it feels great still . I have driven the car pretty hard from almost day one and I love it more and more each day.


BTW I know its not going to last forever, but I am very pleased with how well it has done for me so far. If it blew up tonight I would still be happy, a little pissed ,but I would understand. I have been waiting for like 50k miles for it to blow so I would have an excuse to build it lol

[Hellnightkid]

even with Fuel Management system....
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123630676

[mazdaspeed75]

Well you guys The motor is strong with the right supporting mods but it really takes a toll on the life at the higher boost levels . Load will kill these motors too. Blk zoom zoom told me when i loaded the motor at the track it would bloe and it did, I t would still be together if i would have stayed from the track. I will rebuild and be happy to get 300 whp or so It is a very fun car. Builg the motor before you boost to 12 psi and youll be glad you did .

[Brian MP5T]

Daily Driving will indeed save your motor. Last summer at the start a bunch of people went to the Dyno, and a Bunch Blew Up. Who really cares about a Dyno number. Drive your car, Enjoy it, Fuck the rest, they don't matter.

[FBI14]

What I could find from a quick search, sorry in advance if I posted any misintrepted info

BlueSpeed: AFC 10 PSI, 440 Injectors, FMIC
EmRidMSP: Stock
yellerandahalf: Bulilt tuned
BlkZoomZoom: 2X's 2nd time built and tuned
PHRiSCo: 2 Stock Engines
Hargs79: Stock Engine
Lcruz64: AFC 7PSI
AZMSP84: Possibly Modded
Mspeedchica3.5:Modded
Project_MSP:Unkown
SP33D: Stock Engine
Hello2000: 12PSI, FMIC, CAI
SnS Style: Busted a Rod, blow again due to crap jiffy lube job?
MazdaNeal: Another Jiffy Lub mishap
deadalus:Stock ?
arlsmazdaspeed: Hardpipes & BOV
Mazdaspeeder: Modded
alreadfellout: Stock
nictlg7: Stock
twiztedjeckel: Engine Flaw

[FBI14]

I need an MSP owner to list all the typical MSP problems, because there must be a lot more than the clunk, hesitation, flashed vs. non-flashed ECU (related to hesistation? I dunno), and heatsoak with the side IC.

Other than busted LSD's heres a good list

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81218&highlight=problems+fixes

[65racecoupe]

If any of you guys have taken apart one of the 2.0 blocks, you will see the thin rods.

If you try to get too much power on the stock block, you are just playing with fire.

The MSP is absolutely nothing special in terms of the powertrain. That is why it is suggested to buy a P5 or an MP3 to START with, and then upgrade with a built engine and turbo.

[smo0f]

If any of you guys have taken apart one of the 2.0 blocks, you will see the thin rods.

If you try to get too much power on the stock block, you are just playing with fire.

The MSP is absolutely nothing special in terms of the powertrain. That is why it is suggested to buy a P5 or an MP3 to START with, and then upgrade with a built engine and turbo.

how is that different?

[65racecoupe]

Same engine base, you just have a more efficient turbo set up when you do is with a better kit than Mazda's.

If you are looking for lots of power, it is just cheaper, basically. The MSP's purchase price is a good bit more.

[Brian MP5T]

If any of you guys have taken apart one of the 2.0 blocks, you will see the thin rods.

If you try to get too much power on the stock block, you are just playing with fire.

The MSP is absolutely nothing special in terms of the powertrain. That is why it is suggested to buy a P5 or an MP3 to START with, and then upgrade with a built engine and turbo. Umm, All 2.0 engines have the same internals, even the MSP...

[65racecoupe]

Umm, All 2.0 engines have the same internals, even the MSP...

Of course, it is the same engine. I was just saying it is a cheaper way to go if you want real power (you will end up throwing away the turbo setup on the MSP).

Some are lucky, like 505Zoom. He puts out a lot of power on the stock block. I don't think he drives it like a racecar all the time though.

[NeverSober]

1) people up the boost without fuel management

2) fs-de is a weak motor, and should never have been boosted on stock internals

3) fs-de is a weak motor

4) PEOPLE UP THE BOOST WITHOUT EM

and last but not least

5) THE FSDE IS A WEAK MOTOR

[Moeed]

Same engine base, you just have a more efficient turbo set up when you do is with a better kit than Mazda's.

If you are looking for lots of power, it is just cheaper, basically. The MSP's purchase price is a good bit more.


I disagree with the turbo set up. I believe there is nothing more reliable than how mazda put that kit together. No welding oil return lines and having an oil cooler with a water cooled turbo, it all just works.

[NeverSober]

No he is right, the msp kit is not the most efficient turbo setup. and mazda and reliable dont belong in the same sentence.....

[Moeed]

No he is right, the msp kit is not the most efficient turbo setup. and mazda and reliable dont belong in the same sentence.....

you dont have to agree with me, its just my opinion, and you know how those are (enguard)

[NeverSober]

I know I dont have to agree with you,and i wasnt.......lol Im just stating my opinion too. But most turbo kits from the factory are never anywhere near as efficient as an aftermarket kit. The reason is from the factory they are desiging the car to last longer, aftermarket is usually geared more towards making power.

[orng1]

You guys are arguing about completely diferent thngs one is stating that they are not efficient to make power and the other is stating that they are efficient on reliability. So yeah power and reliablility don't belong in the same sentence when refering to a mazda.

[daedalus]

basically MSP's just suck monkey balls. they are weaker than a bilemic crackhead with osteoporosis's bones.. get the picture?

[NeverSober]

basically MSP's just suck monkey balls. they are weaker than a bilemic crackhead with osteoporosis's bones.. get the picture?

Exactly.

[Brian MP5T]

Monkey Balls..

[jeffmsp]

What I could find from a quick search, sorry in advance if I posted any misintrepted info

BlueSpeed: AFC 10 PSI, 440 Injectors, FMIC
EmRidMSP: Stock
yellerandahalf: Bulilt tuned
BlkZoomZoom: 2X's 2nd time built and tuned
PHRiSCo: 2 Stock Engines
Hargs79: Stock Engine
Lcruz64: AFC 7PSI
AZMSP84: Possibly Modded
Mspeedchica3.5:Modded
Project_MSP:Unkown
SP33D: Stock Engine
Hello2000: 12PSI, FMIC, CAI
SnS Style: Busted a Rod, blow again due to crap jiffy lube job?
MazdaNeal: Another Jiffy Lub mishap
deadalus:Stock ?
arlsmazdaspeed: Hardpipes & BOV
Mazdaspeeder: Modded
alreadfellout: Stock
nictlg7: Stock
twiztedjeckel: Engine Flaw


half those blown motors have nothing to due with the FS being weak. mod and rape any car and it will blow. 4G63s blow all the time 2 ya know. theres a motor, it works fine, then it gets overboosted and raped hard and it breaks. I bet there are less than 20 dead stock MSP engine failures. anybody who brings their car here rapes it, face it.

[Notorious_V.I.C]

My OG engine is still alive

[joka1]

mine too, 15000 boosted milage!

[65racecoupe]

No he is right, the msp kit is not the most efficient turbo setup. and mazda and reliable dont belong in the same sentence.....

The stock turbo manifold is a major choke on the power.

[apocman]

I have been running 16+psi daily for a while now. I have no clue how long it will last, but I also don't drive the car very hard very often. I use to try and stay between 12-14psi daily, but now that I have my aftermarket actuator it is set for 16+ psi so I don't even use my boost controller to control boost other than having the boost limiter set at a certain psi and then it bleeds boost off to prevent me from going any further...

I also have a few other things done to the car to help...



lol, hey i was running 12 psi for a full yr w/o any problems....... i dunno.... i wont be at scn, i promised the promoters of global i would be thier. same night. my bad......... i am not saying my motor will not blow, hell i am already having issues.
my wastegate is not working and i have been to lazy to fix it. a t3/t04e will hit huge boost numbers so the highest i let it go was 28.9........... now i am just going with the flow since my car is still running decent at the higher boost
i must have found some fairy dust
i dont know but it seems to work.

[orphman]

mine too, 15000 boosted milage!


dude i love your car i started a thread about it.. mucho props!(shocked)

[deadstock]

i hear a lot of people whose engines blew, was because of racing...a lot of people made a good point about how the engines are blown due to upping the boost on a weaker engine. which is true, because a fsde isnt a racing engine to begin with thats why the psi stock is very low. im sure a stock engine will last a long while when it is driven normally and not pushed hard. pushing the hell out of a fsde with high boost while racing, is getting obvious don't you think?

[NeverSober]

mine too, 15000 boosted milage!


Didnt you say in another thread that she is hurtin? Forger here comes joka haha.

[Notorious_V.I.C]

i hear a lot of people whose engines blew, was because of racing...a lot of people made a good point about how the engines are blown due to upping the boost on a weaker engine. which is true, because a fsde isnt a racing engine to begin with thats why the psi stock is very low. im sure a stock engine will last a long while when it is driven normally and not pushed hard. pushing the hell out of a fsde with high boost while racing, is getting obvious don't you think?

Well there have actually been people that blew their engine even when it was stock!! haha, so It just shows it veries from car to car, but overall the engine needs forged internals if you plan on doing 10 psi and above without some sort of EMS. With EMS and the 'right' bolt ons people have been getting away with 12psi and higher even 10 psi.