Leaning out...video (unichip help)

[spacemonkey]

Bare with me this is a long post.

well those that are on the unichip board probally know I posted my situation over there.

I got unichip and I have to say I was impressed and liked it alot. Install took no more then 1 hour and the feeling was great. Does everythign it claims and is very smooth. Recent trip to tampa form orlando got me 400 miles on a tank of gas.

Now the only problem is I been getting really lean A/F ratios and what feels like mini fuel cut. To describe teh feeling its like the car hits a patch of water and gets grip again (that hesitation, timming pull or fuel cute). It feels Like the car is pulling timming. The fuel cut/timming issue doesnt happen all the time but its speratic when the car is running too lean. at crusing speeds around 3000 RPM and at 20-30% throttle the A/F read 15,16,17 and somtimes hit 18s/19s before saying "lean" and thats when I feel like the engine pulls timming and the car hesitates. feels like I hit a patch of water on the highway.

MAP B throws a CEL because its advance timming and I been told should only be used with high octane gas. Map A on stock boost and highboost read the same lean A/F ratios.

Ironic thing is its not throwing a CEL. And I dont have anything on my car that would cause it to run so lean. I mean I dont have anythign on my car that others dont have. A DP, intake and SMIC are very common mods for unichip users and people on this board.

My mods are

- Custom's SMIC
- DSM's hardpipe with Greddy type S BOV
- Apex 2.5 inch down pipe (J-pipe) with highflow cat
- injen CAI

So I thought these A/F ratios were normal and figured since its at a light load it shouldnt be a problem or the car will defend itself by pulling timming. And I assume this is how unichip works. Keep in mind this is out of boost. unichip works fine when im at 100% throttle and in boost. When it spike (design to spike) the A/F ratio dips to "rich" and then 10-11 across the board.

I ran the car for a few days with these A/F ratio always in light load (20-30% throttle). And the car seems fine.

So I called Unichip and talked to Josh and Tony. They say that this isnt right and that unichip makes no alteration to timming or fuel out of boost. And that the ECU should compesate in closed loop mode. IT should have read the lean A/F ratio and try to compensate to get 14.7 in closed loop mode

to unichip's credit they did everything he could to help me. Unichip has top notch customer service. But hes all the way on the other side of the country so its hard to diagnoise things. He recommended me to get ahold of a volt meter and OBDII scanner so he can see whats going on. Becuase form what I told him he suspects either the factory ECU isnt doign its job because of a faulty harness (maybe). Or taht the A/F ratios will have to be adjusted becasue of my Downpipe...the original map was tuned for catback and injen he said. So I have to call him back when I get ahold of those 2 things.

Anyways here are the videos I took of the A/F ratios

1st video

20-30% throttle crusing at about 2000-3000-4000 RPM and let off the gas.
http://www.msprotege.com/members/spacemonkey/air%20fuel%20ratio/cruise20-30.MOV

2nd video

just cruising around at 30% throttle at about 3000 RPM. I think I let off the gas at the end.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/spacemonkey/air%20fuel%20ratio/cruising.MOV

3rd video...cruising at 20% throttle and then 80% throttle before letting off.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/spacemonkey/air%20fuel%20ratios/20-80.MOV

4th video is cruising at 30% throttle and then full throttle and leting off the gas at the end. Boost comes in when it reads 14s and then "Rich" is probally about the spike 11-12 psi after that I believe it read 10s @ 9 psi before letting off the gas.

http://www.msprotege.com/members/spacemonkey/air%20fuel%20ratios/cruise%20full%20throttle.MOV

Can anyone with Unichip and WBO2 tell me if this is normal? Anyone experiencing the same thing?

I mean without a WBO2 the car feels fine and great until it hesitates (mini fuel cut). And thats not very often. But witht he WB I clearly see that the A/F mixture is very lean at 30% throttle.

I asked if this could be a corrupt or improper map but the MAp# read correctly and its unlikely they loaded up a wrong map. Its possible that the harness maybe defective but I need a volt meter and a OBDII scanner to see some variables. I took unichip out and the car runs great...14.7 across the board. So I know its not my car.

worse case senario is I would need to get a dyno tune...which I was goign to do in the 1st place. But I need to drive down to miami and its like an extra $200-300. just dont have that kind of money right now. original plan was to run on unichip pretuned maps until I have all the bolt ons I wanted to install. then get it dyno tuned for the best results. But it just looks like if I cant figure out whats wrong I just might make a trip down south next month if I can find the money.

***note: Wide band O2 is a PLX M-300 with Bosch 5 wire WBO2

[JD32883]

I had the same problem I had to upgrade my injectors and be retuned. I posted couple weeks ago bout my problem and suggested some help do a search.

[JD32883]

Here you go hope this helps.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123625439

[spacemonkey]

I had the same problem I had to upgrade my injectors and be retuned. I posted couple weeks ago bout my problem and suggested some help do a search.

do we really have the same problem though? my A/f ratio are 10-11 at full throttle. You said your A/F was 14:1? was taht at full throttle? Because those are good numbers if its out of boost in closed loop mode.

the only time it reads lean is in partial throttle (about 30% throttle)....out of boost. The car should be in closed loop and try its best to make that A/F ratio 14.7.

Unichip acts perfectly in boost. WEll I do see what you mean. iit may read like 14:7-14:8 at maybe 2-4 psi before dipping down to "rich." but at redline its like 10 a/f ratio.

Im too concerned about 15-18 A/F ratios out of boost at 30% throttle (3000 rpm).

[MSP#735]

vids dont work

[spacemonkey]

vids dont work

fixed...let me know if it doesnt work

[JD32883]

Space monkey i would really suggest going to a tuner and having your car looked at. You dont want to risk it and end up with fried engine. Worst is that its all good, and your car is safe but from my experience i would say we gots some problems. I tried explaining to people in my post no one listened they argued it was just my car. If you want i can give you the number for my tuner in CT he can explain to you what is wrong with our cars, and unichip. Let me know

[spacemonkey]

yeah unichip is already out of the car.

But I have ran unichip thinking this is normal for about a week. and on a 4 hour drive to and back from tampa for rotary revolution. So im not super worried. Just not confident enough to leave it on. From what I understand its almost impossible to knock or detonate under low load...I think I read that with how J&S safeguard work.

Im gonna talk to unichip and see if they can help me. if not im gonna have to get a custom tune. just have to save up for that tune I guess.

But it does not make sense since people withthe same mods do not have a problem. Ben from HPF has a full turbo back from the corksport S pipe to full ezhaust with no problem. the dyno charts you see at unichip were actually his car. and the map should be the same map he is running. A local guy called the professor...he teaches at my school...UCF. he dynoed his car and he has the same exact mods as me. only difference is he has turbo hose stuff and I have custom's SMIC. hes been running unichip for 1.5 years. and dynoed it at CFT...no problems.

here was his thread on his dyno day at CFT

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100130

I thinkim gonna try to borrow his unichip and see if it does the same thing.

But I dont understand why his works and mine doesnt. WE nearly have identical mods.

[Professor MSP]

yeah unichip is already out of the car.

But I have ran unichip thinking this is normal for about a week. and on a 4 hour drive to and back from tampa for rotary revolution. So im not super worried. Just not confident enough to leave it on. From what I understand its almost impossible to knock or detonate under low load...I think I read that with how J&S safeguard work.

Im gonna talk to unichip and see if they can help me. if not im gonna have to get a custom tune. just have to save up for that tune I guess.

But it does not make sense since people withthe same mods do not have a problem. Ben from HPF has a full turbo back from the corksport S pipe to full ezhaust with no problem. the dyno charts you see at unichip were actually his car. and the map should be the same map he is running. A local guy called the professor...he teaches at my school...UCF. he dynoed his car and he has the same exact mods as me. only difference is he has turbo hose stuff and I have custom's SMIC. hes been running unichip for 1.5 years. and dynoed it at CFT...no problems.

here was his thread on his dyno day at CFT

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100130

I thinkim gonna try to borrow his unichip and see if it does the same thing.

But I dont understand why his works and mine doesnt. WE nearly have identical mods.

Spacemonkey:

Wow, what a story. It is disappointing to see you are having nontrivial problems with the Unichip unit. Seeing as you have removed it and then verified your car runs as it should, it appears the problem lies with the Unichip module. If it were me, I would not get the unit dyno tuned just yet.

Given that your evidence strongly suggests a problem with the Unichip module, I would insist that Unichip give you another unit in return for the one you possess. They are a helpful bunch in my experience, so if you explain to them that the cars runs fine without the Unichip module, then I see no reason why they would not exchange it for another one.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

[spacemonkey]

AS soon as I get ahold of a OBDII scanner and volt meter I'll call unichip and they can tell me exactly what is going on. If its a harness problem or a bad module.

But I wont be able to get ahold of those 2 things until next week :sad:

[JDM Sam]

You have a faulty unit. Make them send you a new one. Kind of lame they're making you do the diagnostic on the harness. This is a problem a local car here had that Ben at HPF was trying to argue with me with on another thread. Unichip has had some faulty units and switches. It wouldnt have these problems if it was a properly working unit.

[spacemonkey]

JDMsam,

So do you think its jsut the map in the module? So just tell them to send me another one? Or do you think the harness is defective too? Seems to be working correctly....switches and everything works. I do see what you mean about the harness and I guess thats what Tom at Unichip was trying to get me to do with a volt meter and OBDII scaner

[JDM Sam]

I'd tell them send you a whole new unit. Pack it all up even the keychain tell them to send you a whole new one brand new. Unless they say otherwise. There could be a few things that could be faulty. I'd say send it back and just get a whole new one instead of trying to dick around with it. You bought it for ease of use not to diagnose their quality control problems.

This is only if you are 100% sure your car is running good and fine with no leaks anywhere vacuum/exhaust.

[yashart@work]

hmm, mine seems to be doing the same thing. Under partial throttle, 20-30% the AFR's stay in the 14+ range. Only when I get on it hard, or go full throttle does the car not run lean. I however have not run into any fuel cut problems....

[jeffmsp]

I think you need to get your car retuned. I dont think you can expect the characteristics of the motor to stay the same with the increase in flow from the intercooler and stock downpipe. It throws your mapping off mostly in that section because the transition from vac/boost happens quicker then with the stock IC ~4psi restriction and the stock DP. not as much lag in the 2-3K area as stocl. well thats my guess. the less restrictions the shorter time it takes the turbo to spool up even at part throttle. A few hours at a unichips tuner and you are good I think. Did you check for signs of detonation on the piston tops? plugs are fine? I bet the car will be mint if you got it tuned with your mods.

[JDM Sam]

14.7 is not lean in certain loads. 30% throttle doesnt need to be rich. if you ran 12.0 afr all the time you will be wasting gas. only time you should be really concerned about the afr is in boost.

[yashart@work]

14.7 is not lean in certain loads. 30% throttle doesnt need to be rich. if you ran 12.0 afr all the time you will be wasting gas. only time you should be really concerned about the afr is in boost.

My car will still run lean when entering boost. I can hit full boost and my wideband will still be jumping around 14-15.

I notice it more so when the car is still cool. After driving around for 20mins, the problem seems to dissapear.

[jeffmsp]

the motor is flowing more cfm than before so the tuning is off, enough in that area to cause the leaning out. BTW they are right 14:1 etc is normal for cruise. There is a really good book called How to tune and Modify engine management systems that you may wanna look into picking up, it was ~$20 and a good read, explains all about tuning part throttle etc.

[Pirana]

I had a faulty harness too...but mine caught on fire.

[ZenProtege]

I have experienced a similar condition before and found it to be a vac leak.

[Blitzd]

make sure its not spark plug related, I had "mini fuel cuts" my self but it was spark plugs flaming out, i put a set of ngk copper plugs gapped down to 32 and it fixed the problem
just my 14 cents

[yashart@work]

I've got new spark plugs coming in the mail now, 1 range colder :)

My problem only seems to be at partial throttle. If I slowly accelerate (30%-> 50% -> 75% -> 100% throttle) then the car never goes rich, my widband just bounces between 13.5-16.1. Or If i go, lets say 30% throttle and then mash the gas, I experience the same thing. The car will get these little hickups (fuel cut I guess?).

The only way I can get the car to run rich or where its supopsed to be, is if I mash the gas. If I go 5% throttle to 100%, then the wideband will peg 10 for a few seconds and then settle down to 11.1 or so.

[JDM Sam]

Thats the downfall of this stock ECU. Depending on certain loads the closed to open loop switch point is different. The point changes from 3000-4000 RPM. If thats the problem you are having a custom tune will help fix some of it but not completely.