MS3@ Geneva 06.

[RODSCALIP5]

Finally, Mazda is debuting the MS3, but when will it come here :(

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/16636.jpg

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/16637.jpg

Mazda3 MPS and Mazda Kabura to be Exhibited at the 2006 Geneva International Motor Show

HIROSHIMA, Japan, February 13, 2006--Mazda Motor Corporation will showcase the world premiere of the new high-performance Mazda3 MPS, as well as present the European debut of the Kabura concept vehicle, at the 76th annual Geneva International Motor Show to be held from Tuesday, 28 February through Sunday, 12 March 2006.

Joining them on the Mazda stand will be a Mazda5 Hydrogen RE Hybrid (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12672552#) concept vehicle powered by a RENESIS rotary dual-fuel engine - that can use hydrogen or gasoline - and an electric motor, for both outstanding eco-friendliness and Zoom-Zoom driving pleasure.
The new, upgraded Mazda3 line up will be revealed at the Geneva Show as well.

Mazda will hold its press conference at the Mazda stand from 11:45 to 12:00 on Tuesday, 28 February 2006. Detailed information and photos will be made available at that time.

New Mazda3 MPS
The flagship of the Mazda3 range, the all-new Mazda3 MPS, will give sports-minded customers a double dose of Zoom-Zoom driving fun. Mazda3 MPS is the second model in the Mazda Performance Series, following the Mazda6 MPS launched in Europe a month ago. The car will be called Mazdaspeed Axela in Japan, Mazdaspeed3 in North America and, in other key regions including Europe, Australia and New Zealand, Mazda3 MPS.
Mazda looked to embody the three distinct attributes with the new vehicle: Driving Fun, Ownership Delight and Everyday User-Friendly Convenience. With its compact, lightweight body and substantial power generated by its 2.3L MZR DISI TURBO petrol engine, Mazda3 MPS is one of the most powerful high-performance sports compacts with front-wheel drive (FWD) on the road today.

The car's styling pursues a look of strength and solidity in a design that conveys its unmatched dynamic performance at a glance. Mazda3 MPS reflects Mazda's intention to continue delivering Zoom-Zoom in all its products.

Mazda Kabura
Mazda Kabura, which made its global debut at the North American International Auto Show in January 2006, continues the Zoom-Zoom tradition of delivering exhilarating sports cars, while stretching the bounds of interior versatility in radical directions. Designed to appeal to young customers and to support their lifestyles, Mazda Kabura combines the look and feel of an exotic sports car with practicality and affordability, and indicates a possible direction Mazda could take with an exciting compact sports coupe in the future.

*Antoine here...New Pic! Thanks altspace (thumb)

http://response.jp/issue/2006/0303/article79939_1.images/109650.jpg


http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24229.jpg
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http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-25029.jpg

[supa saiyan pr5]

any figures on power that bad boy has?????Nice front for a BIGGER intercooler.....any word on it being AWD


Jeremy

[mikeyb]

Looks like a regular Mazda3. I think I already said that somewhere?

[Rumpleforeskin]

i'd be willing to bet 240bhp...and just as much torque if not more.

[vcinsanity1523]

O man that is so sick i want one so bad any release date also subbing for performance figures.

[Mazda3]

July production for Canada. Which would put it in Canadian dealers last week of August. The number I got from my Mazda Canada sources was 253 HP.

[RODSCALIP5]

July production for Canada. Which would put it in Canadian dealers last week of August. The number I got from my Mazda Canada sources was 253 HP.

So Hopefully the U.S. can expect to get it around that time. Too Bad it won't have AWD.

[supa saiyan pr5]

Looks like a regular Mazda3. I think I already said that somewhere?
Agreed.....I guess the fact that it will be turbocharged and maybe AWD makes it (first)

Jeremy

[Spooled]

That's going to be a FUN car!

[Roywhitep5]

Agreed.....I guess the fact that it will be turbocharged and maybe AWD makes it (first)

Jeremy

IT WONT BE AWD DAMN IT!!!! LET IT GO!!!

[ChopstickHero]

...front-wheel drive (FWD)...

sigh... i knew it wasn't going to be AWD....

[MPSpeedSeraph]

I fail to understand why everyone got so turned on to the idea that this thing would actually be released with AWD... I mean no offense it would be sweet but it would take a chip off of their MS6 sales if they had a car with almost equal HP and AWD that looked sportier and was cheaper...

FWD it is... let's not keep fooling ourselves... (deadhorse

Regardless I think the thing looks sweet. Makes me want one LOL (first)

[MPSpeedSeraph]

By the way, finally the mazda community can take a shot at all those little skittle racers (thumb)

[RODSCALIP5]

I fail to understand why everyone got so turned on to the idea that this thing would actually be released with AWD... I mean no offense it would be sweet but it would take a chip off of their MS6 sales if they had a car with almost equal HP and AWD that looked sportier and was cheaper...

FWD it is... let's not keep fooling ourselves... (deadhorse

Regardless I think the thing looks sweet. Makes me want one LOL (first)

I don't think an AWD version would cut into MS6 sales. Look at the WRX, STI and Legacy. MS6 and MS3 would be two different types of vehicles, much like the STI and Legacy. But like you said FWD it is, I've no problem with that.

[altspace]

European version. Let's see what the US version will be.

[spacemonkey]

OMG looks hot from the front. Dont like the hatch though. they should have gone with the sedan.

Still rather bubbly looking. I like the agressive look of the 6 but dont like how heavy it is.

Love the performance on this but dont like the look that much. But that front bumper change alot...looks wise.

I will have to see the interior. If its as nice as the 6 then it maybe time for a trade.

[spacemonkey]

Wait it has a Direct injection head from the MS6? MZR DISI...sounds expensive but fantastic for gas milage!

i thought they were gonna ditch that DI head for cost. They must have VW and Audi in mind when they are promotoing this car. Cant let VW gold take all the credit with its FSI engine.

Europeans love hot hatches...i think it will do very well in Europe.

[Newf]

i like the front bumper a lot

and that's it.

Guess they had MS6 wheels left over huh :(


Props to finding the info man! Those interested in the hatch will surely enjoy this.

[ZoomZoomH]

that hood is HUGE... looks like stupid TMIC with silly cooling duct through the front grille again... teh lose :(

oh and it better has LSD standard, otherwise it's crap

[Newf]

I don't know how many cars it's going to take, or how many bad car reviews, or how many service calls for MAzdaspeed owners etc until Mazda realizes to put a proper fucking intercooler on their cars!

ahh!

[ZoomZoomH]

even a proper HOODSCOOP would've worked better than that cooling duct setup... would make the hood way less buldgy, save for the scoop...

[ChopstickHero]

oh and it better has LSD standard, otherwise it's crap

i think there will be an LSD included.... whether or not it breaks is another issue.. haha

[eting_pro5]

Wait it has a Direct injection head from the MS6? MZR DISI...sounds expensive but fantastic for gas milage!

Since the direct-injection turbo four is going into the Mazdaspeed 6, CX-7 and now the Mazdaspeed 3, it's not really pricey. Consider how many engines this is going into worldwide and remember those basic economics. The more you build, the less they cost.

[chuyler1]

Not bad. I was curious about whether they would go hatch or sedan.

[Newf]

one of the biggest complaints I had about the original 3 hatch was the hood. It's "shoulders" were too high. I like the sedans better.


This ain't helping one bit.

[jflo]

i like the front bumper a lot

and that's it.

Guess they had MS6 wheels left over huh :(


Props to finding the info man! Those interested in the hatch will surely enjoy this.

uhh i don't know if you noticed, but those AREN'T MS6 wheels.

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/16637.jpg

[RODSCALIP5]

Those MS3 wheels look pretty good.

[tunersteve]

As far as I can remember, I thought that direct injection was the next big thing for Mazda's engine lineup.

[Newf]

uhh i don't know if you noticed, but those AREN'T MS6 wheels.

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/16637.jpg

Yeah I noticed that they are a little different. My comment was more of a general "bla" then anything. You have to admit, they are very very close. i think they could have done better. the average joe isn't going to see a difference unless the cars are side by side.

[ZoomVT]

finally some news.
it is kind of disappointing. I expected more, and i really want it a sedan. i do not like the hatch.
i guess thi sis good news for HiBoost, those of us that want a sedan will be just getting an aftermarket turbo kit.
i agree with newf, those wheels are really blah.
i am not psyched about this car as of right now, maybe it will grow on me.

[anarchistchiken]

Yeah those wheels are still pretty hideous.

So many good new cars coming out, between this, the new WRX with the 2.5, the new GTI... decisions decisions, lol.

[Newf]

the only way I'll be getting this car is if there is nothing else to get.

sad, but true. Was really hoping they do something to make the hatch more appealing. Was praying to the auto gods for a sedan version as well as awd.

Oh well, fuck the auto gods. Let me down again.

[tunersteve]

We still have a bit of time before the official unveiling, there might be a sedan in the works.

[RODSCALIP5]

This is pretty funny, when the MSP came out, all of us P5 owners were complaining about Mazda not having an MSP5. Now the roles are reversed. The option for both would make this a hit. Subaru can do it, Mazda can do it too.

[GrandBelialKey]

sigh... i knew it wasn't going to be AWD....
(werd) I knew AWD was just wishful thinking...

[Newf]

This is pretty funny, when the MSP came out, all of us P5 owners were complaining about Mazda not having an MSP5. Now the roles are reversed. The option for both would make this a hit. Subaru can do it, Mazda can do it too.

EXACTLY!!!!

Why not

heck even honda now has a coupe/sedan. Why limit your consumer base even further???

[altspace]

High Res photos.

[RODSCALIP5]

EXACTLY!!!!

Why not

heck even honda now has a coupe/sedan. Why limit your consumer base even further???

And according to your poll it was almost even :D, send this out to MNA

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58000&highlight=mazdaspeed+poll

[Rogue]

i will be all over one of these when they come out. I guess I need to start taking my car apart and selling it :D

[tsunami]

damn that front grill looks sick!! love it, would be great for a fmic for sure... ditch the tmic in a heart beat. the wheels don't look that bad imo... but to each his/her own. may wait on release date before i go installing all kinds of shit on my 3s....

[tsunami]

So Hopefully the U.S. can expect to get it around that time. Too Bad it won't have AWD.

if this is true i think i may pre-order mine

[altspace]

Quick wallpaper for ya'll.

[Karl Marx]

The guys at Mazda who think these type of wheels (MS6 and now MS3) are hot should be shot.

[Badger Biker]

I am VERY excited to see how this all stacks up. I want to see interior pictures. By the time this comes out, the bugs will be out of the MkV GTI and my current 3 will be old enough to warrant replacement.

*anticipation....*

[J dragon]

ugh hatch....FWD....

I'll stick with the 6 thanks

[Captain KRM P5]

i don't give a rats-ass if this is FWD or AWD or 6WD or powered by warp drive. that front end looks killer and i am sure the car will haul balls if it makes the same power that the ms6 does.

[tunersteve]

We all just have to keep in mind one thing: since its the exact same engine as the MS6, then it has the potential of the MS6. Even if it doesnt come from the factory with 274hp, I'm sure with some minor tweaking that we can get it there.

[Newf]

no doubt, if it's got over 240hp this thing will be quick.

I'm really wondering how bad it'll be on gas, and in the snow though.

[Newf]

one more thing. At least they didn't try to stick some friggin ugly wing on it.

[anarchistchiken]

Turbo back+FMIC+EBC=:D

[Captain KRM P5]

We all just have to keep in mind one thing: since its the exact same engine as the MS6, then it has the potential of the MS6. Even if it doesnt come from the factory with 274hp, I'm sure with some minor tweaking that we can get it there.

omg unichipz!!!!1

[Newf]

Turbo back+FMIC+EBC=:D


....+ 94 octane and ice on the intercooler! :)

of course you have to read the ms6 section to get that joke.

[osu1steve]

July production for Canada. Which would put it in Canadian dealers last week of August. The number I got from my Mazda Canada sources was 253 HP.

So that means it'll be something like 220 HP in the states? What's the conversion? (confused)

[chuyler1]

Is there any reason why it shouldn't get the 274hp that the MS6 gets?

[ZoomZoomH]

^technically no.... just need to crack the 32-bit ECU that controls EVERYTHING.....

[Rogue]

don't want to cut into the MS6 sales, i suppose.

i wonder how they're decreasing the power? smaller turbo, ecu tuning, etc

[ZoomZoomH]

probably detune by timing/fuel, etc...

[anarchistchiken]

Yeah I bet they just detune it

[Amemiya]

August is Along time away. Sounds cool.

[ZoomZoomH]

Yeah I bet they just detune it

not to mention it's probably cheaper for them to just use the EXACT SAME ENGINE for all applications (just with different tuning)... economy of scale... more you build, cheaper it is, and faster return of investment...

[chuyler1]

So could we just do a MS6/MS3 ECU swap? What would prevent us from doing so?

[Rumpleforeskin]

the same engine will be used in 4-5 different vehicles...even finding it's way into the new Fuzion SVT expected out later this year or early next year....Ford version is rumored to have 300bhp


MS6
MS3
CX7
MPV
Fuzion SVT
etc etc etc...

cost cutting at it's best. Look at what Nissan did with the VQ engines.

[solid_snake]

just swap ECUs with a one from the MS6 (first)(thumb)



EDIT: damn too late, somebody already suggested that

[chuyler1]

That's what I just asked ^^^ What would prevent us from doing so?

[mikeyb]

the same engine will be used in 4-5 different vehicles...even finding it's way into the new Fuzion SVT expected out later this year or early next year....Ford version is rumored to have 300bhp


MS6
MS3
CX7
MPV
Fuzion SVT
etc etc etc...

cost cutting at it's best. Look at what Nissan did with the VQ engines.

The MPV will be gone from Mazda's US lineup. I thought I read that the Fusion SVT will have a hipo V6. How about a 2.3T Focus SVT?

[ZoomZoomH]

That's what I just asked ^^^ What would prevent us from doing so?

everything else on the car, the new 32 bit ECU controls EVERYTHING, thus the reason the RX-8's RENESIS has been so difficult to get serious power out of it from the stock ECU...

[Rumpleforeskin]

also the MS6 ecu controlls the liquid-cooled AWD system....without this I bet there would be serious issues.

[Rogue]

i guess swap the AWD system with shorter driveshaft to the MS3

[Rumpleforeskin]

the 3 and 6 aren't on the same chasis....you dont know if any of the rear differential will bolt in...

[Rogue]

i remember reading there is an AWD Mazda5, which is a longer version of the Mazda3, so there should be a spot for stuff to bolt up, no?

[gun]

damn. i knew it'd come down to this decision after a while. keep the msp or trade (and sell the parts i've just bought and have on) for the ms3?

[Rumpleforeskin]

I dunno Luke. the 5 is on a modifed 3 chasis...i dont know what the modifications were though.

Again though....anything is possible depending on how much money you throw at it.

[tsunami]

can't wait for the eventual c&d shot out with the gti/ms3/caliber srt/A3

did i miss one? i think those are all the "hot hatches" that are out?

[Fede_italiano]

Finally, Mazda is debuting the MS3, but when will it come here :(

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/16636.jpg

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/16637.jpg

Mazda3 MPS and Mazda Kabura to be Exhibited at the 2006 Geneva International Motor Show

HIROSHIMA, Japan, February 13, 2006--Mazda Motor Corporation will showcase the world premiere of the new high-performance Mazda3 MPS, as well as present the European debut of the Kabura concept vehicle, at the 76th annual Geneva International Motor Show to be held from Tuesday, 28 February through Sunday, 12 March 2006.

Joining them on the Mazda stand will be a Mazda5 Hydrogen RE Hybrid (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12672552#) concept vehicle powered by a RENESIS rotary dual-fuel engine - that can use hydrogen or gasoline - and an electric motor, for both outstanding eco-friendliness and Zoom-Zoom driving pleasure.
The new, upgraded Mazda3 line up will be revealed at the Geneva Show as well.

Mazda will hold its press conference at the Mazda stand from 11:45 to 12:00 on Tuesday, 28 February 2006. Detailed information and photos will be made available at that time.

New Mazda3 MPS
The flagship of the Mazda3 range, the all-new Mazda3 MPS, will give sports-minded customers a double dose of Zoom-Zoom driving fun. Mazda3 MPS is the second model in the Mazda Performance Series, following the Mazda6 MPS launched in Europe a month ago. The car will be called Mazdaspeed Axela in Japan, Mazdaspeed3 in North America and, in other key regions including Europe, Australia and New Zealand, Mazda3 MPS.
Mazda looked to embody the three distinct attributes with the new vehicle: Driving Fun, Ownership Delight and Everyday User-Friendly Convenience. With its compact, lightweight body and substantial power generated by its 2.3L MZR DISI TURBO petrol engine, Mazda3 MPS is one of the most powerful high-performance sports compacts with front-wheel drive (FWD) on the road today.

The car's styling pursues a look of strength and solidity in a design that conveys its unmatched dynamic performance at a glance. Mazda3 MPS reflects Mazda's intention to continue delivering Zoom-Zoom in all its products.

Mazda Kabura
Mazda Kabura, which made its global debut at the North American International Auto Show in January 2006, continues the Zoom-Zoom tradition of delivering exhilarating sports cars, while stretching the bounds of interior versatility in radical directions. Designed to appeal to young customers and to support their lifestyles, Mazda Kabura combines the look and feel of an exotic sports car with practicality and affordability, and indicates a possible direction Mazda could take with an exciting compact sports coupe in the future.

I like it. Serious and not ricey.
Maybe in 2 3 years...

[Rogue]

looking at the pictures, it may come in both sedan and hatch. The first picture uses a sedan bumper/hood. Compared to a hatch, the sedan grill is part of the bumper, whereas it's part of the hood on a hatch. Does that make sense?

[gray car = sedan / blue car = hatch]

[RODSCALIP5]

looking at the pictures, it may come in both sedan and hatch. The first picture uses a sedan bumper/hood. Compared to a hatch, the sedan grill is part of the bumper, whereas it's part of the hood on a hatch. Does that make sense?

[gray car = sedan / blue car = hatch]

Im thinking in the U.S. it will come in Sedan and Hatch. You never know AWD might still be an option. Yes, I know im still asking for too much (thumb) . But according to the Car Rags, the MS3 is geared to compete more against the GTI, SI, SRT than the WRX, EVO etc. It would be nice though.

[Antoine]

We all just have to keep in mind one thing: since its the exact same engine as the MS6, then it has the potential of the MS6. Even if it doesnt come from the factory with 274hp, I'm sure with some minor tweaking that we can get it there.

(werd) Great power potential, class leading handling combined with the 3's overall popularity will make the MS3 a winner in my book! If Mazda gets the launch campaign right...This Mazda will be stealing sales away from the SRT-4, GTI and other mainstream sport compacts.

[Aricjm15]

(werd) Great power potential, class leading handling combined with the 3's overall popularity will make the MS3 a winner in my book! If Mazda gets the launch campaign right...This Mazda will be stealing sales away from the SRT-4, GTI and other mainstream sport compacts.
I dont think the SRT-4 caliber is going to be any competition being that it is ugly as fuck. Although it will have 300hp.
GTI is ugly and lacks the cahones to compete with either.
Civic Si will only realy be able to compete with handling.
Nissan Sentra SER, they made it into a mommy car, looks horrible.
Toyota corrola lacks in every performance area.
Cobalt SS, eh, its a chevy. chevy = lose

[tunersteve]

looking at the pictures, it may come in both sedan and hatch. The first picture uses a sedan bumper/hood. Compared to a hatch, the sedan grill is part of the bumper, whereas it's part of the hood on a hatch. Does that make sense?

[gray car = sedan / blue car = hatch]

I just noticed that. Good eye Rogue. There is hope for a sedan. If one is made, I will seriously be considering trading/selling my 3rd Gen for one of these.

[susamafone]

uhh i don't know if you noticed, but those AREN'T MS6 wheels.

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/16637.jpg

no, the ms6 wheels are 18 spokes and, personally, look like crap. those are much better

[spacemonkey]

I dont like the new look of the GTi but I dont think its a bad car. Infact I think its a better car then what it is before...performance wise. but looks are just too modern for me.

The best compition is in Europe where the Ford Focus ST and the New GTi

Except the Focus ST shares teh same chasis as the MAzda 3 but has a volvo engine in it with ford styling. Citeron and Peugot

http://news.auto.cz/img/art/fofost20_4224940ca089a.jpg

[Rogue]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12672552#
have read that the MS6 has had some cooling issues with the TMIC and no hoodscoop. I see the MS3 may have the same problem.

Yeah, we've already heard of the same heat-soak issues at our Mazda store with the Mazdaspeed 6's...... http://images.nasioc.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Supposively, a lot of them are knocking from the inefficient intercoolers.... I can't for summer in Florida !!!

Check the Mazda6 forum. From what I gather the ECU is pulling back timing and cutting boost very aggressively, probably for good reason thou. I don't think it will go BOOM because the ECU is been so aggressive but you will definitely feel the huge lost of power. The MS6 is also very sensitive in regard to gas octane. Anything less than 93 and you will be lossing power.

anyone hear about this? problems with cooling and TMIC.

[RODSCALIP5]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12672552#



anyone hear about this? problems with cooling and TMIC.

Yeah, it's all over **********

http://forum.***************/index.phpshowtopic=46672

[CHICO2003]

Overall, I like the styling of the car. (though I still feel the hatch is the wrong way to go) Hopefully Mazda will have a sedan too but my gut tells me they won't. As much as I'd love to continue the mazdaspeed trend, if this car isn't awd I'm simply not interested. (obviously it doesn't appear that it will be.) For the life of me, I just don't understand why. Someone mentioned that this car would be competing with the likes of the GTI, Caliber, Si, Cobalt and others.. instead of the WRX. This to me is mindless. Why compete against a half dozen or more "me too" cars when you can take on the ONE car out there that offers serious hp and awd? Seriously, why are so many car manufacturers letting Subaru control this market? Half the country benefits from awd (during the winter) and the other half certainly dig the handling characteristics. For those who want a fast, reasonably priced 4 door compact with awd, they have but one choice. With all the financial problems Mitsubishi is having... their worries would be over if they simply came out with a slightly lesser version of their EVO to compete with the base WRX. Not everyone can afford $33K+ for a car... the mid 20's represents a bit of a sweet spot for 20 somethings making decent money. The fact that mfrs aren't takin advantage of this incredibley popular segment is mind boggling. Especialy makers like Mitsu and Mazda... who already have the setup ready to go.

But what do I know? i still dig the car... and think it will sell reasonably well, despite everything I just mentioned. I guess I have abit more ambition for mazda then they do. If they did this right, they could really elevate themselves to a much higher level with a car that defines who they are. Think Subaru before and after the WRX. It's like two different companies! That car took them to a whole new level.

[RODSCALIP5]

Overall, I like the styling of the car. (though I still feel the hatch is the wrong way to go) Hopefully Mazda will have a sedan too but my gut tells me they won't. As much as I'd love to continue the mazdaspeed trend, if this car isn't awd I'm simply not interested. (obviously it doesn't appear that it will be.) For the life of me, I just don't understand why. Someone mentioned that this car would be competing with the likes of the GTI, Caliber, Si, Cobalt and others.. instead of the WRX. This to me is mindless. Why compete against a half dozen or more "me too" cars when you can take on the ONE car out there that offers serious hp and awd? Seriously, why are so many car manufacturers letting Subaru control this market? Half the country benefits from awd (during the winter) and the other half certainly dig the handling characteristics. For those who want a fast, reasonably priced 4 door compact with awd, they have but one choice. With all the financial problems Mitsubishi is having... their worries would be over if they simply came out with a slightly lesser version of their EVO to compete with the base WRX. Not everyone can afford $33K+ for a car... the mid 20's represents a bit of a sweet spot for 20 somethings making decent money. The fact that mfrs aren't takin advantage of this incredibley popular segment is mind boggling. Especialy makers like Mitsu and Mazda... who already have the setup ready to go.

But what do I know? i still dig the car... and think it will sell reasonably well, despite everything I just mentioned. I guess I have abit more ambition for mazda then they do. If they did this right, they could really elevate themselves to a much higher level with a car that defines who they are. Think Subaru before and after the WRX. It's like two different companies! That car took them to a whole new level.

+1, I totally agree. They started off well with the MS6/CX7/CX9. I think they should offer it at least as an option. I think they might be afraid of jacking up the prices because of AWD. If Mazda were to play it right they could possibly take sales from Subaru and Mitsu.

[illusis]

im so happy its not going to be all wheel drive b/c i wanted all wheel but couldnt aford a car i liked with all wheel so i went with front wheel. if it does im upgrading even though i got my car like 3 months ago not even. =]

[Iggy]

can't wait for the eventual c&d shot out with the gti/ms3/caliber srt/A3

did i miss one? i think those are all the "hot hatches" that are out?


what about the mini

[altspace]

I say again, AWD adds to the overall weight. So it can be a positive.

[Antoine]

I say again, AWD adds to the overall weight. So it can be a positive.

Good point Alt ;)

[mikeyb]

To bad I'm not going to be in the market for a sport compact. My next car will either be a Legacy GT sportwagon or a Mazdaspeed6.

[Rumpleforeskin]

legacygt + cobb = much faster...but not as cool.

[mikeyb]

legacygt + cobb = much faster...but not as cool.

Its a wolf in sheep clothing. Its will be a sleeper.

[Kansei]

...looked sportier...

You mean looks fatter. The sedan three looks great but the 3 wagon just looks fat. I'm glad Mazda didn't make that mistake between the protege sedan and hatchback.

[Newf]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12672552#



anyone hear about this? problems with cooling and TMIC.

took the words right out of my mouth. This is why I made the joke about the 94 octane and ice on the intercooler.

Sorry folks, but this is already destined to have issues before it even gets produced. You want a car that only works in certain temps at certain times? Because so far it seems to be a hit/miss if the MS6's operate as advertised. I've been reading more and more issues lately that really have me concerned that this is another MSP hesitation and heat soak issue ( Which never got resolved, nor did the clunk for that matter) that is only going to carry over to the MS3.

Mazda does not have a good track record with permanently fixing problems like this. This is the one thing holding me back from purchasing any new mazdaspeed until I see it out for year and see what issues it has. Add to the fact that most Mazdaspeeds have a 1 year run and that is it. Problem is, I need a new car this year, not next. At least with the Civic SiR I know it'll work. Can't believe I just said that.

Hopefully with this MS6 engine being used across the board, they'll have more of a reason to ACTUALLY FIX SOMETHING for a change.

[goldwing2000]

looking at the pictures, it may come in both sedan and hatch. The first picture uses a sedan bumper/hood. Compared to a hatch, the sedan grill is part of the bumper, whereas it's part of the hood on a hatch. Does that make sense?

Actually, the grille orientation looks like the only crossover. The hood is different than both but the shape and lines are still hatch. The grille is also different than both.
They've probably had too many complaints from techs whacking their heads on the hanging grille. (thumb)

The bumper is obviously all new.

[chuyler1]

Sorry folks, but this is already destined to have issues before it even gets produced. You want a car that only works in certain temps at certain times? Because so far it seems to be a hit/miss if the MS6's operate as advertised. I've been reading more and more issues lately that really have me concerned that this is another MSP hesitation and heat soak issue ( Which never got resolved, nor did the clunk for that matter) that is only going to carry over to the MS3.
Aftermarket FMIC -- problem solved.

[clicknext]

Beautiful car. I wish more of the hot hatches would come over to this side of the sea. I really like the European Focus as well.

[Pirana]

Humm, might start a for sale thread on my parts. ;)

[Mazda3]

Newf and other MSP owners:

Those of you who drive your cars in the winter, how much does the LSD help in the snow? Assuming you would have winter tires on the car, how much better than a regular Protege or 3 is it in the snow?

If I bought a MS3 it would have to be driven in the winter, which is one of my major disappointments for no AWD. So just curious what it would be like in the winter?

[Smork]

The fact that they are releasing another car like the MSP to compete against the GTI etc, killed me. (Atleast that's what I see that the MSP competes against) I lost all hope for that car. AWD+turbo was it's last resort. I know it would somewhat hurt the MS6's sales, but it doesn't matter. It seems that Mazda will always stay low compared to making a "decent" awd car like Mitsu and Subaru. I would've bought this car, but I'm just over it now.

[Newf]

Aftermarket FMIC -- problem solved.


some us like our warranty.

Some dealers don't like FMIC. Besides...what's the big friggin deal with Mazda and it's tiny intercoolers on just about all the mazdaspeeds that obviously do not work?

[Newf]

Newf and other MSP owners:

Those of you who drive your cars in the winter, how much does the LSD help in the snow? Assuming you would have winter tires on the car, how much better than a regular Protege or 3 is it in the snow?

If I bought a MS3 it would have to be driven in the winter, which is one of my major disappointments for no AWD. So just curious what it would be like in the winter?

To be honest it really doesn't seem to make a difference. What you really want in a car for winter ( besides AWD ) is traction control which actually kills power when your wheels spin. Limited Slip isn't quite the same, actually it's kind of the opposite.

I see some SRT4's here getting around just fine in the winter.

My biggest problem with my car is wheel spin in the winter. But a light foot is all you need. The car is also way to light and doesn't have enough on the front wheels which exaggerates the problem. Now, the problem will only get worse with 250hp . I wouldn't worry about it for myself, but when my woman drives the car and tries to get up the steep slippery hill to her mothers house....that's when I'll worry.

[goldwing2000]

The car is also way to light and doesn't have enough on the front wheels which exaggerates the problem.

That's the first time I've ever heard somebody say the Mazda3 is too light. (boom07)

[Newf]

That's the first time I've ever heard somebody say the Mazda3 is too light. (boom07)

Can't speak for the 3. Don't have one. only driven them on pavement.

the Protege however is light. Great for the summer, shits for the winter. Second one I've had, two different sets of winters, same problem. i don't even need a handbrake to do handbrake turns if you know what I mean. And getting going on snow always results in wheels a spinnin.

[goldwing2000]

Can't speak for the 3. Don't have one. only driven them on pavement.

the Protege however is light. Great for the summer, shits for the winter. Second one I've had, two different sets of winters, same problem. i don't even need a handbrake to do handbrake turns if you know what I mean. And getting going on snow always results in wheels a spinnin.

Gotcha. I missed some of the continuity of the thread and failed to notice that you have an MSP. (braindead

I agree that traction control is a better option than LSD for snow, though.

[Kansei]

The fact that they are releasing another car like the MSP to compete against the GTI etc, killed me. (Atleast that's what I see that the MSP competes against) I lost all hope for that car. AWD+turbo was it's last resort. I know it would somewhat hurt the MS6's sales, but it doesn't matter. It seems that Mazda will always stay low compared to making a "decent" awd car like Mitsu and Subaru. I would've bought this car, but I'm just over it now.

Mazda doesn't desire to be the honda of the world. Everything I have read has said that Mazda likes catering to the little niche they have.

Mazda doesn't need to blow the competition away in every aspect to win me over. The car needs to have character, to put a smile on my face whenever I see it, and to exhilerate me with it's handling characteristics when I drive it.

So far, the Mazda3 hatchback fails all three of those, so I'll be sticking to my Protege5 and waiting it out.

[1somamp3]

I find it looks exactly like the old Mazda 3. Atleast the MSP and MP3 had different body kits

[Smork]

It's not that I want them to put out a car like honda and try to be generic. It's good to have character.. but it seems they are putting out cars that are only mediocre. It's just bugging me even moreso for the future rx7. They keep putting out these "decent" cars. Nothing that anyone really notices imo.

[Kansei]

It's not that I want them to put out a car like honda and try to be generic. It's good to have character.. but it seems they are putting out cars that are only mediocre. It's just bugging me even moreso for the future rx7. They keep putting out these "decent" cars. Nothing that anyone really notices imo.

People notice the MP3/MSP/Protege5. I get complements about my car every day, even though it's covered with salt. I agree about the new models though.


I find it looks exactly like the old Mazda 3. Atleast the MSP and MP3 had different body kits

Well.. it's got a fake bigger grille. That's one (of a few) things that I can't stand about the WRX. it looks like it has a big lower grille opening until you get up close and realise that there's a big black bar (which undoubtedly has the actual metal bumper behind it) that is masquerading as part of the grille.

[dmitrik4]

i like it a lot. i like the hatch, b/c it gives the car actual utility. i don't mind the FWD, b/c that's a few hundred (mostly useless) pounds it won't be lugging around. it's not like a lack of AWD has relegated the MSP to mediocre handling. and i'll take decent snow tires on a FWD over all-seasons on an AWD any time. i haven't seen weather that FWD and good tires couldn't handle, that didn't also include snow to deep for any car, AWD or not, to drive through.

my only disappointment is the ducting to the intercooler. i can see why the MS6 doesn't have a scoop; it's aimed at looking more "grown up." but the MS3, esp since it's the hatch, is not. hood scoops don't have to be garish; look at the legacy GT and the saab 9-2.

BTW mikeyb, the Legacy GT wagon is off my g/f's shopping list; no more 5-speed turbo LGT wagons. boo.

[Mazda3]

Can't speak for the 3. Don't have one. only driven them on pavement.

the Protege however is light. Great for the summer, shits for the winter. Second one I've had, two different sets of winters, same problem. i don't even need a handbrake to do handbrake turns if you know what I mean. And getting going on snow always results in wheels a spinnin.

Yeah, I was just curious if the LSD helped at all in the winter with 2 tires pulling the car instead of one.

[altspace]

It's not that I want them to put out a car like honda and try to be generic. It's good to have character.. but it seems they are putting out cars that are only mediocre. It's just bugging me even moreso for the future rx7. They keep putting out these "decent" cars. Nothing that anyone really notices imo.

Are you serious? The RX-8 is simply a marvel in design and engineering. Nothing else like it on the planet.

[TheJohnny]

Humm, might start a for sale thread on my parts. ;)

that hood sure does look good.... :)

[RODSCALIP5]

I'm wondering if the car will be built 100% in Japan?

[ZoomZoomH]

most certainly it will be, no silly 'at port' turbo installs!!!

this is a 'worldwide release', not a NA-only car like the MSP ;)

[AzteCypher]

I still think the AWD would be possible by swapping it in from the MS6. Granted there might be some different mounting points but I don't think it would be anything that couldn't be fixed with some braces of sorts. Of course it's all relative to how much money you want to throw at it but I don't think it's as hard as we might think. Granted I'm not an engineer but I am a day dreamer!

[ZoomZoomH]

you don't want MS6's awd system anyway, half-time half-ass awd....

[DeadGeneration]

I like it

[Mgkdrgn]

I believe that is the same engine that is in my MS6 ... which will bring it in at 274hp. At the weight of the 3, that will be wicked quick.


any figures on power that bad boy has?????Nice front for a BIGGER intercooler.....any word on it being AWD


Jeremy

[Puckpimp71]

It's unlikely that it will have the same hp, but I will say this much... Supposedly Mazda engineers have the title of "fastest FWD production car" in the bull's eye.

[DeadGeneration]

Hmm... fastar than a neon?

[Newf]

Hmm... fastar than a neon?

ouch

[Newf]

you don't want MS6's awd system anyway, half-time half-ass awd....


have you ever put gas into a full time awd car before? might change your mind after the first few tanks :)

[tunersteve]

If by the good graces of the car gods this comes in a sedan, it will be mine. This is the ONLY car I would switch up to if available.

[Iggy]

It's unlikely that it will have the same hp, but I will say this much... Supposedly Mazda engineers have the title of "fastest FWD production car" in the bull's eye.

too bad the new Caliber SRT-4 has 300hp and will outrun the ms3 with no problem

[Fede_italiano]

too bad the new Caliber SRT-4 has 300hp and will outrun the ms3 with no problem

I might but it is UGLY in and out.
I am in no way against dodge or mazda but the 3 is clean, nice in and out and it surely looks good in the speed version.
I do agree that they should get scoop or FMIC because the TMIC will heatsoak fast.

[Mounty]

too bad the new Caliber SRT-4 has 300hp and will outrun the ms3 with no problem

Straight line maybe, but Mazda owns the curve!

[Rogue]

would the Caliber even be in the same class? I know it's replacing the NEON, but it looks more like crossover than a compact sedan/hatch/desecration.

[Rogue]

I might but it is UGLY in and out.
I am in no way against dodge or mazda but the 3 is a clean and nice in and out car stock and it surely nice in the speed version.
I do agree that they should get scoop or FMIC because that will heatsoak fast.i bet DG, VIS, and other CF hood companies will make some kind of hood w/ a scoop. I'm sure that would be cheaper than a FMIC.

[Fede_italiano]

i bet DG, VIS, and other CF hood companies will make some kind of hood w/ a scoop. I'm sure that would be cheaper than a FMIC.
very good point.
at least it will not void the warranty and still look good.

to bad it will be 3 more years before I change car.

[Rogue]

My P5 will be paid off next Nov. I'll trade it in on a used MS3. My P5 was one year old with 11,500 miles in Oct of 02. Hopefully I'll find a similar deal on an MS3 next fall.

[Mounty]

By the way, anybody notices the rear foglight (red light instead of the reverse light on the left rear on the trunk lid)?

[RODSCALIP5]

By the way, anybody notices the rear foglight (red light instead of the reverse light on the left rear on the trunk lid)?

Yeah, good catch. I wonder what the price will be? Will it come like the MS6, Touring and Grand Touring? Somebody's has to have more info :D

[Rogue]

another difference compared to the regular Mz3 is the brake light on the wing is LED as opposed to a single bulb.

[ZoomZoomH]

have you ever put gas into a full time awd car before? might change your mind after the first few tanks :)

i have a rotary car, please don't try to compare low gas mileage with me (poke)

[Newf]

i have a rotary car, please don't try to compare low gas mileage with me (poke)


LOL - Good point, you win :)

[altspace]

By the way, anybody notices the rear foglight (red light instead of the reverse light on the left rear on the trunk lid)?

That's a European thing.

[Antoine]

After reading some of your comments...I realized the new srt-4 is not even in the same league as the MS3...Now I appreciate the 4's "affordable" performance factor but that's ALL it offers...The MS3 will be better in just about every category from handling to looks and even though the 2.3 DIT has around 50 less ponnies...It's potential is limitless!

Hold off on the trash talk and let's discuss potential here...;)

[RODSCALIP5]

After reading some of your comments...I realized the new srt-4 is not even in the same league as the MS3...Now I appreciate the 4's "affordable" performance factor but that's ALL it offers...The MS3 will be better in just about every category from handling to looks and even though the 2.3 DIT has around 50 less ponnies...It's potential is limitless!

Hold off on the trash talk and let's discuss potential here...;)

I don't think anyone is trashing the MS3, in fact, I think we are all happy Mazda is competing against the other small dogs. I just felt a little let down that they wouldnt go against the BIG DOG Subaru/Mitsu with an AWD Sedan and Hatch. But again we won't know the details until it makes its U.S. Debut.

[BradC]

too bad the new Caliber SRT-4 has 300hp and will outrun the ms3 with no problem
Caliber is not FWD.

[Mallard]

Caliber is not FWD.
yeah it is.

[RHAGEL]

yeah it is. The Caliber SRT-4 is AWD.

[BradC]

yeah it is.
Not the SRT-4 in question though.

[RHAGEL]

As far as looks go, from what I can see the wheels look awesome. They remind me of the last generation Audi S6 wheels. I also think the fog lights look pretty damn good, its nice to see something that isn't round.

[RHAGEL]

Not the SRT-4 in question though. Ahh yes, I see. I just thought we were talking about the SRT-4.

[Newf]

After reading some of your comments...I realized the new srt-4 is not even in the same league as the MS3...Now I appreciate the 4's "affordable" performance factor but that's ALL it offers...The MS3 will be better in just about every category from handling to looks and even though the 2.3 DIT has around 50 less ponnies...It's potential is limitless!

Hold off on the trash talk and let's discuss potential here...;)

Totally agree with the srt4 comments. to me the srt4 didn't' compare to the MSP in some ways but we won't go there.

But, you and I have been here long enough to know that there are eyes here from MNOA. If they are releasing press pictures, I'd be willing to bet that some of them are looking on the net wondering what peoples opinions are on the look. If we don't like it, now is the time to say so, not when it's on the road 6 months from now.

I don't hate it, it's just not for me. It's another "cute hatchback" that has the possibility to kick some butt ( on a good day where heat soak and fuel isn't a problem that is)

I already owned a "cute hatchback". And every time I heard someone call it a "cute hatchback" I cringed.


....if there's absolutely nothing else for me to buy, who knows...

[Mallard]

The Caliber SRT-4 is AWD.
The Caliber SRT-4 is FWD, not AWD. Read the thread in the Automotive News Forum with the release from DCX.

[BradC]

The Caliber SRT-4 is FWD, not AWD. Read the thread in the Automotive News Forum with the release from DCX.
Then I am mistaken. Autoweek says its AWD I think...

[mikeyb]

Then I am mistaken. Autoweek says its AWD I think...

I was looking to see Autoweek states FWD or AWD. But I did not see it either.

[cable43]

i will be all over one of these when they come out. I guess I need to start taking my car apart and selling it :D

dibs on JDM `tails!!

[Mallard]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2275539&postcount=34

Power is delivered through a equal length half-shafts, equipped with a limited slip differential for uniform side-to-side power transfer.

Notice it doesn't say anything about front to rear power transfer.

[Puckpimp71]

too bad the new Caliber SRT-4 has 300hp and will outrun the ms3 with no problem
Please don't tell me that you're ignorant enough to think that gearing and power delivery, weight and aerodynamics have nothing to do with acceleration. (thumb)

[Pirana]

I own a prime example of what you just said....my NSX just puts down 190 of torque and 250 at the wheels....but it hard to catch.

[Iggy]

Please don't tell me that you're ignorant enough to think that gearing and power delivery, weight and aerodynamics have nothing to do with acceleration. (thumb)

how about we wait and see some official numbers and specs before we get into bench racing. im just throwing out my guess that the caliber srt will be quicker

[cable43]

Antione hit it on the nose: "Potential"
do ANY of our cars LOOK or perform well STOCK?

imagine this car with a turbo 2.3 base :
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/364/zoom2au.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7479/topview2ks.jpg

and with this body kit
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/20640/normal_DSC00126.JPG
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/20640/normal_DSC00120.JPG

and now throw in some of the the engine/turbo work that Juan (HiBoost) is doing.

i know it may not be to everyones taste but is is defiantly something new on the street and pushing 300whp easy!

i'd buy that for a $1.

[Newf]

fugly

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

i wonder what the price will be....i wonder if when this comes out the price of the regular 3 will drop dramatically? because if the ms3 costs too much you could always get a regular mazda3 and get juan to hook you up ;) i bet it would come to about the same possibly. but then again i know the "warrenty" issue but still you never know.

[jflo]

i for one, couldn't give a fuck about what the mazdaspeed3 will or will not compete with. it hasn't been released yet, neither has the caliber srt-4. as of right now, everything is just speculation.

just because you don't like it, doesn't mean they're gonna change it so that you'll buy it. if you don't buy it, sucks for you, better for everyone else that will.

given the history of SRT-4s, obviously they're going to be a bargain performance car. mazdaspeeds on the other hand are cars that are well-rounded.

the potential of both the cars are huge, but since no one has one of these cars in their own hands, again, it's all speculation of what they can do.

[Puckpimp71]

how about we wait and see some official numbers and specs before we get into bench racing. im just throwing out my guess that the caliber srt will be quicker
I'll drink to that... man for it being my birthday, I really needed a nap earlier. At any rate, what hiboost has done with our cars has got me thinking to ditch my MSP for a grand touring 3... At any rate, save for the FWD, it a bargain compared to any other car. Selling cars all day, the GT M3 is the only car that I've given people the sticker price on, and they were surprised how cheap it was.

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

I'll drink to that... man for it being my birthday, I really needed a nap earlier. At any rate, what hiboost has done with our cars has got me thinking to ditch my MSP for a grand touring 3...

HERE HERE!!!

[CHICO2003]

I say again, AWD adds to the overall weight. So it can be a positive.

oh come on! so does a bigger engine! wtf? how can you say awd isn't a "positive" thing? yeah, it'll add weight but it'll also add traction, handling and most of all, the ability to drift!

Seriously... if it's the difference between RWD and AWD... RWD hands down (in the warmer climates) but FWD vs AWD everywhere else? come on!! no contest!!


Something no one seems to have mentioned yet... torque steer.

the critics killed the msp (even with it's LSD) for this. 170hp!! this car's going to have a shitload more... isn't anyone worried about this? yet another reason for AWD.

Sorry guys but... as much as I dig mazdas, they dropped the ball.

[Iggy]

I'll drink to that... man for it being my birthday, I really needed a nap earlier. At any rate, what hiboost has done with our cars has got me thinking to ditch my MSP for a grand touring 3... At any rate, save for the FWD, it a bargain compared to any other car. Selling cars all day, the GT M3 is the only car that I've given people the sticker price on, and they were surprised how cheap it was.


(cheers)(cheers)(cheers) DRINKS ALL AROUND! Happy Birthday!

[Newf]

oh come on! so does a bigger engine! wtf? how can you say awd isn't a "positive" thing? yeah, it'll add weight but it'll also add traction, handling and most of all, the ability to drift!

Seriously... if it's the difference between RWD and AWD... RWD hands down (in the warmer climates) but FWD vs AWD everywhere else? come on!! no contest!!


Something no one seems to have mentioned yet... torque steer.

the critics killed the msp (even with it's LSD) for this. 170hp!! this car's going to have a shitload more... isn't anyone worried about this? yet another reason for AWD.

Sorry guys but... as much as I dig mazdas, they dropped the ball.


agreed. They have all of the sources at their disposal to acheive this and create something special. But they didn't. end of story

[Antoine]

I don't agree...I think the MS3 will be a natural progression of the MS program and a positive evolution of the current Mazda3. I also think it will be the most well rounded sport compact in it's class and be very competitive as a track car.

At least wait until the car is OUT before you downgrade it...

[Captain KRM P5]

At least wait until the car is OUT before you downgrade it...

as i recall, thats what people on this forum did with the msp, the msm and the ms6 before they all came out. plenty of armchair engineers who think they know the cars better than the manufacturer who criticize it sight unseen before release.

[dmitrik4]

and most of all, the ability to drift!



that says it all right there...

the MSP's main problem was too much weight, not enough power, not enough camber. another 200 lbs wouldn't have helped at all.

the bottom line is that less weight is only ever good for handling...i'd rather save the 200+ pounds versus having something i'll rarely, if ever, have a need for.

i think the MS3 might be a great D-Stock car.

[Antoine]

as i recall, thats what people on this forum did with the msp, the msm and the ms6 before they all came out. plenty of armchair engineers who think they know the cars better than the manufacturer who criticize it sight unseen before release.

Exactly.

[Newf]

as i recall, that's what people on this forum did with the msp, the msm and the ms6 before they all came out. plenty of armchair engineers who think they know the cars better than the manufacturer who criticize it sight unseen before release.

ok, to a degree you are right.

but there is a few things you can not ignore

1. it's using the same engine as the MS6. Same top mount pos intercooler by the looks of it. The MS6 has hesitation and power loss issues already. not all of them, but the numbers are indeed increasing and I'd imagine once summer temps get here it'll be worse. What's actually wrong is totally speculation by all parties right now. Hopefully they'll fix it without blowing something up. Now,what are the chances that the Ms3 will also have the same problems.....pretty friggin good I'd say. and to anyone thinking that Mazda won't release the MS3 unless the problem is fixed, I got one word for ya

"CLUNK"

two years after knowing the Mp3 had a serious suspension flaw, they still released the MSP knowing it had the same problem.

2. There is NO good enough reason why they can't release both sedan and Hatch. They have everything there at their disposal to do it.

3. well there isn't really any #3. But AWD would have made it special but this is really a preference thing



I love Mazda for the most part, and I really really want to see this car be as good as it could be. But Mazda has fucked up every mazdaspeed to date somehow. well, I'm not aware of any Miata issues but i never read up on it, then again it's HP rating was a friggin joke.

Perhaps Reality is just sinking in to me after 5 years of fighting with them on just about everything and it's making me bitter.

I really really hope I'm wrong. Because this car could kick some major friggin ass if done right ( for a change ) and could easily be a class leader. No way in hell is the dodge going to look as good like it inside/out, and the Civic Si could chase behind it all damn day and never catch it.

[CHICO2003]

I don't agree...I think the MS3 will be a natural progression of the MS program and a positive evolution of the current Mazda3. I also think it will be the most well rounded sport compact in it's class and be very competitive as a track car.

At least wait until the car is OUT before you downgrade it...


I guess in some respects you're right. It's generally not fair to judge something before it's even out. That said, since it's pretty much a certainty that this car will be FWD, it IS fair to judge it on THAT. Clearly there's a bit of dissension with regard to the value AWD provides. I think a lot of that has to do with where one happens to live. I for one live in an area that gets hit pretty hard during the winter. While FWD isn't bad (certainly a lot better than RWD) AWD is obviously the superior setup. For those who don't have winters like me, I can see how awd wouldn't be quite as valuable. That said, why not just get a RWD car? If I lived somewhere warm, I doubt I'd want an AWD car either. Even with it's handling prowess, to me, the value is diminished greatly. I'm not sure exactly what I'd drive (haven't given it a ton of thought... maybe an RX-8) but it sure as hell wouldn't be a FWD car.

Anyway, i went off on a tangent. (what else is new?) Here's the bottom line. Assuming this car doesn't suffer from a ridiculous amount of tourque steer (something that cannot be judged until it comes out) I too think it will be a formidable car with those in which it competes with.

But here's the deal...

There are those who are satisfied with merely being "competitive" or, at best, marginally better than the competition. These types don't mind simply being "average". Then there are the types who prefer to take chances. Maybe go a bit against the grain in order to possibly gain some type of competitive edge. Is this strategy inherently more risky? Perhaps. But the potential rewad far outweighs the risk.

Earlier, I said Mazda dropped the ball in making this car FWD. That was a bit harsh. This car will compare favorably to the likes of the GLI, Cobalt, Civic, and the rest of the FWD sport compacts. While they may not have dropped the ball... in my oppinion, they missed out on a GOLDEN opportunity. With the resources they have, they could have easily given this car awd. The modest extra cost involved would have been highly ouweighed by the host of intangible benefits a car like this (awd/turbo) would provide. ie. a "flagship-esque" type car to provide the mfr with more of an identity. This would in turn create more of a buzz for the mfr and naturally stimulate interest in the rest of their line. Look no further than the effect the WRX had on Subaru as a whole. While the company wasn't exactly in shambles, there's no doubt that the car helped springboard them to a level nobody but nobody would have foresaw 6 years ago.

In short, in choosing FWD, Mazda in some ways took the easy way out. They elected to "play it safe" and compete with the masses Nobody ever said getting ahead was easy. Sometimes you gotta suck it up and take on the king of the jungle. It's been 4 years since the WRX came out. Subaru's sold a billion of these things since. Dodge and Chevy recently introduced their respective versions of the pony car in hopes of taking away some marketshare from the ultra popular new mustang. Why various mfrs haven't taken the same approach with the WRX's popularity is beyond me.

[jflo]

as i recall, thats what people on this forum did with the msp, the msm and the ms6 before they all came out. plenty of armchair engineers who think they know the cars better than the manufacturer who criticize it sight unseen before release.

EXACTLY ! jeeze...so much speculation from what people are just reading. ridiculous people. blah blah blah i know so much about the mazdaspeed3 because i've got 2 eyes that were specially developed to tell you just how bad or good something will be through pictures.

[MPSpeedSeraph]

I guess in some respects you're right. It's generally not fair to judge something before it's even out. That said, since it's pretty much a certainty that this car will be FWD, it IS fair to judge it on THAT. Clearly there's a bit of dissension with regard to the value AWD provides. I think a lot of that has to do with where one happens to live. I for one live in an area that gets hit pretty hard during the winter. While FWD isn't bad (certainly a lot better than RWD) AWD is obviously the superior setup. For those who don't have winters like me, I can see how awd wouldn't be quite as valuable. That said, why not just get a RWD car? If I lived somewhere warm, I doubt I'd want an AWD car either. Even with it's handling prowess, to me, the value is diminished greatly. I'm not sure exactly what I'd drive (haven't given it a ton of thought... maybe an RX-8) but it sure as hell wouldn't be a FWD car.

Anyway, i went off on a tangent. (what else is new?) Here's the bottom line. Assuming this car doesn't suffer from a ridiculous amount of tourque steer (something that cannot be judged until it comes out) I too think it will be a formidable car with those in which it competes with.

But here's the deal...

There are those who are satisfied with merely being "competitive" or, at best, marginally better than the competition. These types don't mind simply being "average". Then there are the types who prefer to take chances. Maybe go a bit against the grain in order to possibly gain some type of competitive edge. Is this strategy inherently more risky? Perhaps. But the potential rewad far outweighs the risk.

Earlier, I said Mazda dropped the ball in making this car FWD. That was a bit harsh. This car will compare favorably to the likes of the GLI, Cobalt, Civic, and the rest of the FWD sport compacts. While they may not have dropped the ball... in my oppinion, they missed out on a GOLDEN opportunity. With the resources they have, they could have easily given this car awd. The modest extra cost involved would have been highly ouweighed by the host of intangible benefits a car like this (awd/turbo) would provide. ie. a "flagship-esque" type car to provide the mfr with more of an identity. This would in turn create more of a buzz for the mfr and naturally stimulate interest in the rest of their line. Look no further than the effect the WRX had on Subaru as a whole. While the company wasn't exactly in shambles, there's no doubt that the car helped springboard them to a level nobody but nobody would have foresaw 6 years ago.

In short, in choosing FWD, Mazda in some ways took the easy way out. They elected to "play it safe" and compete with the masses Nobody ever said getting ahead was easy. Sometimes you gotta suck it up and take on the king of the jungle. It's been 4 years since the WRX came out. Subaru's sold a billion of these things since. Dodge and Chevy recently introduced their respective versions of the pony car in hopes of taking away some marketshare from the ultra popular new mustang. Why various mfrs haven't taken the same approach with the WRX's popularity is beyond me.

You make it sound like it would have been CHEAP for Mazda to go back to the drawing board and develop AWD on this car.

Do you realize how much R&D alone costs?

Sometimes although a company wants to release a product that is highly embraced by the masses, they have to do what they can to keep the coin in their pocket...

but I guess if you decided to pay the bill for them then it would be okay and you'd get the AWD you so desperately desire (thumb)

[Rogue]

You make it sound like it would have been CHEAP for Mazda to go back to the drawing board and develop AWD on this car.

Do you realize how much R&D alone costs?

Sometimes although a company wants to release a product that is highly embraced by the masses, they have to do what they can to keep the coin in their pocket...

but I guess if you decided to pay the bill for them then it would be okay and you'd get the AWD you so desperately desire (thumb)All the R&D has been developed and implemented in the MS6. As I mentioned before, I believe there is an AWD version of the Mazda5, which is a modified Mazda3. So, swapping the AWD components wouldn't have have been difficult.

I think it comes down to cost. If Mazda is trying to stay in a certain price bracket, AWD drive may not have been a feasable option.


To those that are in love with the car: How many will buy it as soon as it comes out? How many will wait to see what problems (heat soak, clunk, etc.) occur before buying?

[anarchistchiken]

There are those who are satisfied with merely being "competitive" or, at best, marginally better than the competition. These types don't mind simply being "average". Then there are the types who prefer to take chances. Maybe go a bit against the grain in order to possibly gain some type of competitive edge. Is this strategy inherently more risky? Perhaps. But the potential rewad far outweighs the risk.

Dude, it's a $23,000 economy car, not a fucking ferrari. Mazda has never been a large producer of AWD systems. The 323 GTX was a good system, but that was one of the very few cars Mazda ever made AWD, and it was a long time ago. We have yet to see how reliable the MS6 system is with a lot of power, and as far as the 5 awd, it will be FWD w/ rear assist, which is far from ideal for a performance car not to mention that it is not currently being produced and there's no way of telling when it will enter production (and if/when it is, I will give you my car if they release it in a manual setup).

And to whoever said just throw in the MS6 AWD, think about that. The 6 is longer, wider, and laid out differently from the 3. Even if the tranny and transfer case sropped right into the 3, they would need to design a new driveshaft and new axles, not to mention any legal shit they would have to go through to get permission to use it from Ford and Volvo.

Even if they went through all that shit and added the 500 lb's of extra crap needed to make it work, it still would not compete directly with the WRX, and wouldn't even be close to the STI/Evo. It would be rated right about the same hp as the WRX, it would have a much less advanced AWD system, etc. However, as a FWD car, it's in the same bracket as the Cobalt SS, SRT-4 (current) Ion Redline, GTI, and it will still be very competitive with the WRX, it'll just have a slightly high 60' time.

This argument needs to end now. There is absoultely no reason to make the car AWD except for the very very small percentage of people who would even consider AWD neccesary in a car over fwd. With FWD, it will still be very capable in the snow, it will be lighter, it will be cheaper, it will put more power to the ground, and there's less stuff to break in a new model in a series that is plagued with problems.

[Iggy]

Dude, it's a $23,000 economy car, not a fucking ferrari. Mazda has never been a large producer of AWD systems. The 323 GTX was a good system, but that was one of the very few cars Mazda ever made AWD, and it was a long time ago. We have yet to see how reliable the MS6 system is with a lot of power, and as far as the 5 awd, it will be FWD w/ rear assist, which is far from ideal for a performance car not to mention that it is not currently being produced and there's no way of telling when it will enter production (and if/when it is, I will give you my car if they release it in a manual setup).

And to whoever said just throw in the MS6 AWD, think about that. The 6 is longer, wider, and laid out differently from the 3. Even if the tranny and transfer case sropped right into the 3, they would need to design a new driveshaft and new axles, not to mention any legal shit they would have to go through to get permission to use it from Ford and Volvo.

Even if they went through all that shit and added the 500 lb's of extra crap needed to make it work, it still would not compete directly with the WRX, and wouldn't even be close to the STI/Evo. It would be rated right about the same hp as the WRX, it would have a much less advanced AWD system, etc. However, as a FWD car, it's in the same bracket as the Cobalt SS, SRT-4 (current) Ion Redline, GTI, and it will still be very competitive with the WRX, it'll just have a slightly high 60' time.

This argument needs to end now. There is absoultely no reason to make the car AWD except for the very very small percentage of people who would even consider AWD neccesary in a car over fwd. With FWD, it will still be very capable in the snow, it will be lighter, it will be cheaper, it will put more power to the ground, and there's less stuff to break in a new model in a series that is plagued with problems.


(mswerd)

[jflo]

Dude, it's a $23,000 economy car, not a fucking ferrari. Mazda has never been a large producer of AWD systems. The 323 GTX was a good system, but that was one of the very few cars Mazda ever made AWD, and it was a long time ago. We have yet to see how reliable the MS6 system is with a lot of power, and as far as the 5 awd, it will be FWD w/ rear assist, which is far from ideal for a performance car not to mention that it is not currently being produced and there's no way of telling when it will enter production (and if/when it is, I will give you my car if they release it in a manual setup).

And to whoever said just throw in the MS6 AWD, think about that. The 6 is longer, wider, and laid out differently from the 3. Even if the tranny and transfer case sropped right into the 3, they would need to design a new driveshaft and new axles, not to mention any legal shit they would have to go through to get permission to use it from Ford and Volvo.

Even if they went through all that shit and added the 500 lb's of extra crap needed to make it work, it still would not compete directly with the WRX, and wouldn't even be close to the STI/Evo. It would be rated right about the same hp as the WRX, it would have a much less advanced AWD system, etc. However, as a FWD car, it's in the same bracket as the Cobalt SS, SRT-4 (current) Ion Redline, GTI, and it will still be very competitive with the WRX, it'll just have a slightly high 60' time.

This argument needs to end now. There is absoultely no reason to make the car AWD except for the very very small percentage of people who would even consider AWD neccesary in a car over fwd. With FWD, it will still be very capable in the snow, it will be lighter, it will be cheaper, it will put more power to the ground, and there's less stuff to break in a new model in a series that is plagued with problems.

thank you. my sentiments exactly.

[altspace]

Excellent! Said yet again what I have over and over here. No AWD = Less Weight! I live in snow country and guess what..I know how to drive a FWD vehicle in it.

[Rogue]

anarchistchicken for the win

[FBI14]

Im not saying this is going to be a bad car but with Mazdas track record of MazdaSpeed Vechicles, I would be really cautious with the MS3, I wouldnt jump on it as soon as it came out. The MSP speaks for itself (I still enjoy the car though) and the MS6 doesnt seem to be all that great thus far either. After reading the posts in the link it doesnt seem like the MS6 has a intercooler problem but something else, becasue people are experiencing powerloss in cold temps.

[CHICO2003]

You guys crack me up... Anarchistchiken for the win??? wtf is that? lol When I get home from work I'll shoot his argument full of so many holes you'll think it's swiss cheese after I'm done with it.

Till then... all you FWD lovin fools, enjoy the tourque steer!!

[Aricjm15]

You guys crack me up... Anarchistchiken for the win??? wtf is that? lol When I get home from work I'll shoot his argument full of so many holes you'll think it's swiss cheese after I'm done with it.

Till then... all you FWD lovin fools, enjoy the tourque steer!!
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Aricjm15/you-win-prize.jpg

[Turbo_3]

Hey,
If the MS3 has the same engine as the speed six then that will put it at about 247 hp right?

Well right now I am driving a regular mazda 3 sedan... I added the short ram cold air intake and a new magna flow muffler and some other small mods, I have the hp close to 205 and was wondering what else I could do to make the hp's increase with out a turbo/supercharger. I wanna keep the mods a little more on the simple side like I have already done... any ideas???

[mikeyb]

Hey,
If the MS3 has the same engine as the speed six then that will put it at about 247 hp right?

Well right now I am driving a regular mazda 3 sedan... I added the short ram cold air intake and a new magna flow muffler and some other small mods, I have the hp close to 205 and was wondering what else I could do to make the hp's increase with out a turbo/supercharger. I wanna keep the mods a little more on the simple side like I have already done... any ideas???

You mean 274hp for the Mazdaspeed. Is your Mazda3 have a 2.0 or 2.3?

[Turbo_3]

Yeah sorry, 274,
my mazda is a 2.3

any suggestions?

[chuyler1]

Hey,
If the MS3 has the same engine as the speed six then that will put it at about 247 hp right?

Well right now I am driving a regular mazda 3 sedan... I added the short ram cold air intake and a new magna flow muffler and some other small mods, I have the hp close to 205 and was wondering what else I could do to make the hp's increase with out a turbo/supercharger. I wanna keep the mods a little more on the simple side like I have already done... any ideas???
45HP from a CAI and muffler? That doesn't add up. Did you dyno your car?

[Rogue]

Yeah sorry, 274,
my mazda is a 2.3

any suggestions?you need to go ask over in the Mazda3 (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=142) section.

[Antoine]

Woah...First of all cool it guys...Let's keep a civil discussion going here...Second...Stay on topic!

I will remove any posts that are OFF-TOPIC.

That said...I think Mazda's reasoning is pretty close to what's been mentioned below...


Even if they went through all that shit and added the 500 lb's of extra crap needed to make it work, it still would not compete directly with the WRX, and wouldn't even be close to the STI/Evo. It would be rated right about the same hp as the WRX, it would have a much less advanced AWD system, etc. However, as a FWD car, it's in the same bracket as the Cobalt SS, SRT-4 (current) Ion Redline, GTI, and it will still be very competitive with the WRX, it'll just have a slightly high 60' time.

This argument needs to end now. There is absoultely no reason to make the car AWD except for the very very small percentage of people who would even consider AWD neccesary in a car over fwd. With FWD, it will still be very capable in the snow, it will be lighter, it will be cheaper, it will put more power to the ground, and there's less stuff to break in a new model in a series that is plagued with problems.

Also it should be known that Mazda monitors these forums...I've heard from someone at Mazda that they are consistently SHOCKED at what some people claim to know about upcoming models.

[jononumber5]

http://www.4uka.com/news/00/100081.html

[tsunami]

45HP from a CAI and muffler? That doesn't add up. Did you dyno your car?


try more like 65... unless he has an engine dyno handy.... lol


but on topic i am going to wait for a bit to see whether the ms6 power loss issues arise with the ms3 and to see some testing and other members opinions before i would consider trading in my 3.... i bought the 04 model and really really enjoy it but am regretting not waiting and getting a later year model as the 06 has a lot more creature comforts that i could deffinatly enjoy (heated seats/mirrors for sure)

[Aricjm15]

If it is really that important to have an AWD mazda3 why not go with the volvo version of the car.
http://www.volvocars.us/Showroom/newS40/
the car can be had with a 6speed AWD and a turbo 5cylender engine. Yeah alot of it is different but the chassi is the same.

[jflo]

Geneva Motor Show preview: 2007 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3

Date posted: 02-15-2006

In-house tuner fever continues its sweep through the automotive world this spring, with new models popping up everywhere from AMG to SRT, from Ralliart to Mazdaspeed. The latest speedster from Mazda is the Mazdaspeed 3, the fourth vehicle to come from the in-house team (following the Protege, the MX-5 Miata, and the recently-released Mazdaspeed 6.) Mazda says the vehicle, which is powered by the same 2.3-liter turbo from the 6, will provide "a double dose of Zoom-Zoom driving fun." That should be plenty of zooms, but unfortunately they will all be forced out through the front wheels, since all-wheel drive will not be borrowed from the Mazdaspeed 6. Interestingly, Dodge also opted to go with the lighter-weight but less-grippy front-drive set-up for the new Caliber SRT4 shown at the Chicago show. We'll see how both fast five-doors perform when we put them head to head later this year.

everyone quit their bitching about AWD. the WRX is a rally-bred street car. same with the evolution. subaru was already selling WRXs everywhere but North America. mazda isn't about to compete with a company that has been specializing in the 4-wheel-drive-turbo-small-sedan niche. it's amazing how knowledgeable those that want the car with AWD and a sedan body are. 'cause you know, you can just slap on a chassis, a drivetrain, and a few parts here and there, and whaddaya know ! it's a car !

[Rogue]

someone brought up a point that all past "mazdaspeed" models have only been for one model year. Does anyone think they will do the same with the 6 and 3?

[tsunami]

i can see the ms6&3 staying around until their specific models are retired. i don't see the 3 going anywhere for a while and the 6 seems to be going good still, not as well as it was with the fusion out now but still a stronger seller then the 626 was....

[Puckpimp71]

someone brought up a point that all past "mazdaspeed" models have only been for one model year. Does anyone think they will do the same with the 6 and 3?
ummm MSM? and no, I thought Mazda was going to make 5000 MS6s a year.

[RODSCALIP5]

Just wanted to post something I had over a year ago :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pc49be952605fc78945e5a0c661d09ea4/f9f2a89c.jpg

[MPSpeedSeraph]

someone brought up a point that all past "mazdaspeed" models have only been for one model year. Does anyone think they will do the same with the 6 and 3?


I doubt it, I don't see why Mazda would have dished the cash to create the vehicles if only for a year run.

I mean, Considering the MSP was brought out and then replaced by the 3 it's understandable that they released the MSP as the proteges last hurrah so to speak?

Maybe it's just my logic... but I don't see the MS6 going anywhere and I'm sure it'll be the same with the MS3 and MS8

[Antoine]

I agree...I think as long as the base model is in production...There will be the Mazdaspeed version sold along side it...;)

[TheMAN]

everyone quit their bitching about AWD. the WRX is a rally-bred street car. same with the evolution. subaru was already selling WRXs everywhere but North America. mazda isn't about to compete with a company that has been specializing in the 4-wheel-drive-turbo-small-sedan niche. it's amazing how knowledgeable those that want the car with AWD and a sedan body are. 'cause you know, you can just slap on a chassis, a drivetrain, and a few parts here and there, and whaddaya know ! it's a car !

mazda doesn't want to be seen as another car company producing WRC style or homogolized limited editions right now.... hard lessons were learned in the early 90s when mazda and nissan failed at their WRC racing... it also took a big hit on mazda finances because of the heavy cost burdens of producing a FIA mandated homogolized road car (if they were raced in Group A).... it took subaru many years to actually build up demand of WRXs to what it is now to allow them to be profitable.... also mazda is careful and doesn't want to reenter WRC racing yet also due to their lessons in the 90s

mazda is just being careful and doesn't want to take the risk in competing in the rally road car business right now... it's not they don't know how to build those cars, they DO compared to other companies like honda

the BK chassis was designed from the start to allow the installation of a 4WD drivetrain... the new premacy in japan (which shares the chassis) proves that... so some existing parts could be used if they actually wanted to

it would kick ass if mazda goes back to WRC rallying and sells road going versions of those cars though... still sucks that we never got the 323 GT-R... a kick ass car before the time of evos and wrxs

[spacemonkey]

But in this case I think cost is a big deal. They probally want to price this car around the $20K range. AWD will only add cost and weight to this car.

They put a AWD system in the Mazdaspeed 6 because when you charge $28-30K for a luxury sedan...it better not be FWD. Infact its hard to market any car as a sports car or luxury car at $26,000+ with FWD. Saab learned this the hard way. FWD is always a cost Saving measure. Honda/Acura found this out the hard way. Thus Acura is desperately trying to put AWD in their cars because their RWD technology is lacking. You spend $50K on a Acura RL and its FWD? lol They were the laughing stock of luxury sedans. Thus the MS6 was made to compete against Audi A6, Subaru Legacy and whatever in its class. Plus the inherit design of the car. The engine is transversly mounted to begin with. Im sure they wanted to make it RWD but its very hard making a Front engine RWD car when your engine is transversly mounted. Your transmission and Diff is one already...why not just add another on in the back and have a electric clutch to control power distribution? The engine bad was designed for a transverse FWD engine.

not to mention people driving a Mazdaspeed 6 are more family oriented and AWD is a great safety feature.

About Mazda racing in the WRC...TheMan is right. Mazda never capitalized off it to build a imagine in AWD. Look at the main advertising for Audi and Subaru which have staked their entire rep on AWD and WRC. Which is one reason why they never competed in Laemans racing again after 1991.

They banned rotary because of governing problems...its hard to make a rotary engine compete at teh same level as a piston engine.

But they retracted the ban a year or 2 after. But Mazda never capitalized off its Lemans win.

And Mazda has now invested alot in road racing. Alantic cars are not powered by the MZR. Star Mazda is powered by Renisis engine. They inked their name at Leguna Seca. Purchsed a 2nd road racing track in Japan as their "test track." they say on any given day at any road racing even their are mroe Mazda's then any other brand

Now hopefully with this new sponsorship Mazda can utilize it in its campaign.

Like, "hear of a sports car, zoom-zoom. Every Mazda car has its roots in racing i.e. Champ car, Alantic series, AMLS and etc."

it will be a great promotion as those race series use Mazda engiens found in production cars. and further promotes them as putting "sports car" technology in their cars.

[dmitrik4]

But in this case I think cost is a big deal. They probally want to price this car around the $20K range. AWD will only add cost and weight to this car.

They put a AWD system in the Mazdaspeed 6 because when you charge $28-30K for a luxury sedan...it better not be FWD.

well said.

and let's be honest...90% of the people here would only drive the car on the street anyway, and if you're reaching the limits of a car like the MS3 on a public road, you're an *****. none of us are driving in situations where FWD itself is THAT big of a limitation. like someone said before, it's an economy car, not a ferrari.




Till then... all you FWD lovin fools, enjoy the tourque steer!!

if you're going to keep pounding on the torque steer argument, at least spell it correctly. :)

[sjdmp5]

Till then... all you FWD lovin fools, enjoy the tourque steer!!

Mazda will probably limit boost in the first couple of gears to control torque steer. I like it and I want one.

[altspace]

Interesting quote from Andrew LUU (Autoweek). Review of Dodge Caliber.

..."it may not have quite the interior polish of the new Civic or as sporty feel as a Mazda 3."

Interesting to see the Mazda 3 as a comparo.

[Rogue]

Mazda will probably limit boost in the first couple of gears to control torque steer. I like it and I want one.how will it do that?

[CHICO2003]

well said.

and let's be honest...90% of the people here would only drive the car on the street anyway, and if you're reaching the limits of a car like the MS3 on a public road, you're an *****. none of us are driving in situations where FWD itself is THAT big of a limitation. like someone said before, it's an economy car, not a ferrari.




if you're going to keep pounding on the torque steer argument, at least spell it correctly. :)

LOL I hope you're kidding. Last time I checked, spelling accuracy isn't (or at least shouldn't be) one of the top concerns for fellow forum readers. As long as the message gets out, that's all that matters. As far as me "pounding" on the torque steer argument... don't belittle the fact that this is a concern. Critics complained about the TS on the 170 hp msp. That car has a LSD so what's another 70+hp going to do? make it less of an issue? I'm not saying they can't figure a way around it... but whatever time/money put into THAT could have/should have been put into making it (something else I've been "pounding on") awd.

[Rogue]

no one is forcing you to buy one. As far as we know, there is no AWD for the car. Get over it. Just get off your soap box and drop your anti-MS3 campaign.

I can't tell. Are those 17"s or 18"s?

[CHICO2003]

Dude, it's a $23,000 economy car, not a fucking ferrari.

Ferrari??? wtf are you talking about? Since Ferraris aren't exactly known for awd (do any even have it?) I'm assuming you're talking about exotics in general. so... I guess you're saying only exotics can have awd? lol hmm.... yeah, u lost me there. Anyway, has this $23k figure even been released yet? If not, let's not speculate. While I agree, it'll probably be "around there", unless Mazda's released official pricing, there's no way to know for sure. We can certainly make some reasonable estimates though. I just went on to carsdirect.com (great website btw) and loaded up a 3 wagon with most of the options they listed, (no AT) except for the nav. Sticker? $23k and change. Do it yourself if you don't believe me. Obviously most savvy consumers can automatically knock a couple grand off the sticker on most cars, but to be fair (and compare apples to apples) the current top of the line 3 seems to be priced at the same pricepoint you're setting the (superior in every way) new mazdaspeed version. Something just doesn't add up. I did some research and found that the 2003 mazda protege es stickered for about $17k while the msp was around $19.5k That's a sizeable enough difference between the two cars to place them in the proper pecking order. Obviously it wouldn't be wise on Mazda's part to offer the 3 and the MS3 for the same price. Based on my very limited research, Mazda will either have to lower the pricing on the 3 or sticker the ms3 closer to 25k. While this may seem a bit outlandish, if this car truly is going to compete with the likes of the GLI ($25k easy) I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility. Again, we're talkin sticker here. But enough about price.... for now at least.



Mazda has never been a large producer of AWD systems. The 323 GTX was a good system, but that was one of the very few cars Mazda ever made AWD, and it was a long time ago. We have yet to see how reliable the MS6 system is with a lot of power, and as far as the 5 awd, it will be FWD w/ rear assist, which is far from ideal for a performance car not to mention that it is not currently being produced and there's no way of telling when it will enter production (and if/when it is, I will give you my car if they release it in a manual setup).

I'll give you a half a point there. While Mazda obviously doesn't have the same type of awd heritage Subaru had when they released the WRX, with the parts bin Ford Motor Company provides them, coming out with something "new" isn't quite as daunting a task as you make it seem. Ever hear of the S40? Now I know what you're gonna say... the drivetrain couldn't handle "alot of power" (as you said above). Not quite sure what you mean by "a lot" but let's assume it's more than the 230 or so hp most of us think this car's gonna have. So, in this hypothetical, mazda's got an awd turbo car that's not capable of reliably handling more power than what it comes with in stock form. Hmm... where have I heard this before? granted, that's sort've a worst case scenario.... but even if that were the case, since I'm not the type that's into going crazy with the mods, I for one wouldn't care. 230hp awd is more than enough for me. (see perf specs on the WRX) I'd rather have a well-balanced awd car with around 230hp than a torque steer fwd monster, that can't handle as well in the snow (or at the limit) with 270hp.... but that's just me.

But getting back to the whole "if we haven't mastered it yet, let's not even bother to try" thing.... what kind of attitude is that? Essentially, that's what you're saying! Whatever happenend to having some balls and trying something new? Sure, there may be a risk... but suck it up and figure out a way to minimize it as much as possible. We're talking about AWD here...not landing a man on mars. if a car company ONLY made RWD cars... would they be scared to bring a fWD car out to market just because they haven't had success with it in the past? Obviously that's a ridiculous example... FWD is clearly an easier science to master than AWD.... but still! There comes a point when you have be willing to take a risk. Being as big of a fan of mazda as I am, (they seem to take more risks than most) I figured the new ms3 would be awd. If it were, I'd be shocked if it weren't a huge hit. This would in turn be a huge lift for Mazda and provide a greater sense of pride to its loyal fans (us.) This new car will still be kick ass... and do all of the things I mentioned above. just not the same degree, imo.



And to whoever said just throw in the MS6 AWD, think about that. The 6 is longer, wider, and laid out differently from the 3. Even if the tranny and transfer case sropped right into the 3, they would need to design a new driveshaft and new axles, not to mention any legal shit they would have to go through to get permission to use it from Ford and Volvo.

Now we're just getting ridiculous....

So, because the MS6 is a longer car, you're telling me that the talented engineers at mazda couldn't figure out a way to make it work? Come on! Give them some credit! That's their job! I never said it would be easy but... definitely doable. Legal shit? LOL So I guess the countless mfrs who share parts have some pretty good lawyers!




Even if they went through all that shit and added the 500 lb's of extra crap needed to make it work, it still would not compete directly with the WRX, and wouldn't even be close to the STI/Evo. It would be rated right about the same hp as the WRX, it would have a much less advanced AWD system, etc. However, as a FWD car, it's in the same bracket as the Cobalt SS, SRT-4 (current) Ion Redline, GTI, and it will still be very competitive with the WRX, it'll just have a slightly high 60' time.

This is my favorite part.... Where's this 500lbs come from exactly? Did you take the AWD system out of your friends WRX and step on the scale? Cuz the last time I checked... none of these cars have a FWD version to accurately make this assessment. (accept for (maybe) the lancer es) Am I saying awd cars don’t' weigh more? of course not.... I might be dumb but I'm not stupid. But 500lbs MAY be a stretch... Based on your point of view, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Let's take that Lancer...The ES weighs in at 2767 while the EVO weighs in at 3086... a difference of about 300lbs. I guess that's the closest we can get to knowing how much extra he awd setup weighs.... so let's take this a step further shall we? Clearly weight is our enemy.... but with the proper power, a litle extra weight isn't necessarily the end of the world. Especially when you're gaining the types of advantages awd offers.


You say you have no problem driving in the snow with fwd. Well congratulations... neither do I! It's generally a perfectly safe means of traveling through wintry weather. But no one can argue that AWD is EVEN safer. There is a sizeable difference in the level of confidence you have in driving an AWD vehicle through less than ideal conditions vs a fwd vehicle. you can't argue.. it's a fact. AWD is the safer option. But since we're obviously into a bit more than safety here, awd also offers better traction, less understeer and... alas, no torque steer! (something nobody seems to be concerned about) Do yourself a favor and go drive a 270hp Acura TL. Slam the gas and feel what happens to the wheel. Since most of the people who buy that car will rarely do that sort've thing, it's not that big of a deal. Sure, the LSD will help (hopefully a lot!) but to what degree is the question. If this car's TS is half as bad as the aforementioned TL, that may be reason enough to go with an AWD variant. Especially if the car's going to sell for $25k Ask most WRX owners what they paid for their cars... most will say that price (or less... far less). You say FWD is cheaper.... unless that translates into a sizeable difference in price (at least 2k) for many consumers, that's a not a sizeable enough difference. [/QUOTE]



This argument needs to end now. There is absoultely no reason to make the car AWD except for the very very small percentage of people who would even consider AWD neccesary in a car over fwd. With FWD, it will still be very capable in the snow, it will be lighter, it will be cheaper, it will put more power to the ground, and there's less stuff to break in a new model in a series that is plagued with problems.

Just because you say an argument needs to end doesn't mean it will (or should). While you may think a "very small percentage" of people care about AWD, you clearly couldn't be any more wrong. Seriously folks... be honest with yourself on this one. Would the WRX be as popular as it is if it was FWD? Let's not kid ourselves here. How about a 300hp FWD Sti? Anyone? LOL small percentage.... Or how about this... Put everything else aside, just consider driving dynamics and performance. Would you rather have a WRX or an SRT-4? Both have similar specs and perf figures. (desite the subie's extra weight). Everything else being equal, do you want the awd or fwd car?

In conclusion, while I don't agree with Mazda's strategy, this car should be a major hit for them. Afterall, as I've said ad naseum already, there aren't too many mfrs tapping into the increasingly popular awd segement. As long as most of mazda's main competitors only come in fwd, they'll most likely crush them in every important category. After driving the WRX and Evo, I knew my next car had to be awd. (there's just no comparrison imo) Being the fan of Mazda that I am, I really wanted my next ride to be a Mazda... So I guess part (most) of this is just my personal frustration/dissapointment.

I guess I'll just have to move somewhere warm and buy an RX-8.

[CHICO2003]

no one is forcing you to buy one. As far as we know, there is no AWD for the car. Get over it. Just get off your soap box and drop your anti-MS3 campaign.

I can't tell. Are those 17"s or 18"s?

no campaign here dude... just expressing my dissapointment. last time I checked, that IS allowed.

[CHICO2003]

Mazda will probably limit boost in the first couple of gears to control torque steer. I like it and I want one.

That's actually a pretty good idea.... as long as it's only reserved for 1st gear. (otherwise you're robbing peter to pay paul... or however it goes)

[RODSCALIP5]

Im going to bitch and complain some more :D, IMO it should at least be offered as an option, like in the CX7. If it is offered at around 25K, it will not be FTW. I am not bashing the car, but I would've of thought that Mazda would have wanted to set itself apart from the others. Either way it is going to be a good vehice, pending price.

[altspace]

This is getting boring now. I for one have had enough and will not post anymore in this thread untill I see hard facts. Not going to waste time reading speculation bickering. Don't we all love Mazda anyway?

[Iggy]

Ferrari??? wtf are you talking about? Since Ferraris aren't exactly known for awd (do any even have it?) I'm assuming you're talking about exotics in general. so... I guess you're saying only exotics can have awd? lol hmm.... yeah, u lost me there. Anyway, has this $23k figure even been released yet? If not, let's not speculate. While I agree, it'll probably be "around there", unless Mazda's released official pricing, there's no way to know for sure. We can certainly make some reasonable estimates though. I just went on to carsdirect.com (great website btw) and loaded up a 3 wagon with most of the options they listed, (no AT) except for the nav. Sticker? $23k and change. Do it yourself if you don't believe me. Obviously most savvy consumers can automatically knock a couple grand off the sticker on most cars, but to be fair (and compare apples to apples) the current top of the line 3 seems to be priced at the same pricepoint you're setting the (superior in every way) new mazdaspeed version. Something just doesn't add up. I did some research and found that the 2003 mazda protege es stickered for about $17k while the msp was around $19.5k That's a sizeable enough difference between the two cars to place them in the proper pecking order. Obviously it wouldn't be wise on Mazda's part to offer the 3 and the MS3 for the same price. Based on my very limited research, Mazda will either have to lower the pricing on the 3 or sticker the ms3 closer to 25k. While this may seem a bit outlandish, if this car truly is going to compete with the likes of the GLI ($25k easy) I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility. Again, we're talkin sticker here. But enough about price.... for now at least.

I think that Mazda will keep the price about $23 thousand, but let me tell you why. I think that Mazda is gonna market this car more against a GTI and the new Civic Si, which both start around the 20-22k range. Those prices are for the base model. While there is no doubt in anyones mind that Mazda will offer some options on the car to jack up the price, and their profits. Mazda would not need to alter the sticker of the regular 3 if they did this. Someone could get a fully loaded 3s for about 22 or 23, or get a base Mazdaspeed 3. They don't need to have a few thousand dollar gap between a fully loaded 3s and the base Mazdaspeed 3. Take your WRX example. While you can buy a WRX TR for about $24k, if you take the WRX and load it up on options it will hit close to $32, which is where the STI starts. This might entice the consumer to move up to the high performance model of any car. They could have the slower one with a bunch of options, or for the same price, they could have the high performance model for the same amount of money

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

we are forgetting that the mazda3 5 door starts at 17k and some change so 23k seems reasonable. remember that when i got my p5 it was 17k and a msp was like 20-21k so yeah it shouldnt be too much of a price increase.

[dmitrik4]

i was just teasing you about the speeling. ;) but like it or not, spelling and grammar can and do impact an argument's credibility.

what do you hope i'm kidding about? the spelling joke or the fact that FWD/AWD ultimately makes no real difference to almost anyone on here besides for bench racing?

i think the point of bringing up ferraris wan't that ferraris have AWD, but that this is a frickin' economy car, not something absolutely dedicated to the highest performance possible.

a little extra weight (and 2-300lbs is not "little") certainly can be offset by extra power...as long as all you care about is accelerating in straight line. EVERYTHING else besides that suffers...weight is bad, period.

AWD doesn't make the car corner or stop better. some of us care about those last 2 things a lot more than the first.

as far as safety in the snow, i don't see how AWD is safer. all cars have "4 wheel stop" and "2 wheel turn"...in other words, AWD helps you get going, but doesn't help any other place.

another way of looking at it is: "it gets you to your accident faster."

that said, i have nothing against AWD, but: A) it's not a magic performance cure-all...AWD isn't necessarily better; and B) there are valid reasons that mazda has (maybe) decided to stick w/ FWD for this car.

i don't think they have to do with "fear of trying something new" or "happy with mediocrity." if those were the case, the miata would be non-existent, and we'd still have the 626 and 929.

it just so happens that the decisions that were made were not the ones you'd make. fair enough, but that doesn't lessen their validity. i'd prefer that the 3s came in at about 2300 lbs...but i'm not running mazda, and i can understand why it doesn't.

[RODSCALIP5]

I think that Mazda will keep the price about $23 thousand, but let me tell you why. I think that Mazda is gonna market this car more against a GTI and the new Civic Si, which both start around the 20-22k range. Those prices are for the base model. While there is no doubt in anyones mind that Mazda will offer some options on the car to jack up the price, and their profits. Mazda would not need to alter the sticker of the regular 3 if they did this. Someone could get a fully loaded 3s for about 22 or 23, or get a base Mazdaspeed 3. They don't need to have a few thousand dollar gap between a fully loaded 3s and the base Mazdaspeed 3. Take your WRX example. While you can buy a WRX TR for about $24k, if you take the WRX and load it up on options it will hit close to $32, which is where the STI starts. This might entice the consumer to move up to the high performance model of any car. They could have the slower one with a bunch of options, or for the same price, they could have the high performance model for the same amount of money

This makes sense, the only question is, how much will they leave out of a base MS3? But like someone else already said, we just have to sit and wait :(.

[RODSCALIP5]

More Pics and can you say 6-speed :D:


http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24229.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24829.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-25129.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-25629.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24329.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24429.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-26029.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24629.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-25029.jpg

[Rogue]

you think those seats will make it?

[RODSCALIP5]

you think those seats will make it?

It better, SI has the same style seats, GTI does also.

[Rogue]

that was one of the complaints about the MS6, not enough bolstering in the seats. Same ones that were in the regular 6s.

[snowblazin]

I need one...now. (sad1)

[Rogue]

dual zone climate control?

[Mallard]

dual zone climate control?
Doesn't look like it. I think the knobs are just fan on the left and temp on the right. On the bright side, judging by the pic of the tach it looks like it has stability control.

[Rogue]

man....

i haven't felt like this for a car since I first saw the Protege5. I waited a year before I could buy one.

I really want this car. (2thumbs)

[RODSCALIP5]

man....

i haven't felt like this for a car since I first saw the Protege5. I waited a year before I could buy one.

I really want this car. (2thumbs)

Yeah I know what you mean. I wanted to get a CX7, but after seeing these pics I might just get the MS3. Can't wait for pricing and release date in U.S. Looks like it is coming with a Bose system also.

[Newf]

could it look any more bla?

And too bad I was right....No stereo. At least nothing good. That BOSE pos can kiss my ass.

Hopefully there's something stereo'wise special under the dash using the same screen as the nav? I can only wish

[RODSCALIP5]

Here's the Sedan(old pic from last year):

http://jaycwang.com/m3.jpg
http://jaycwang.com/m32.jpg

[Rogue]

did either the MS6 or MSM have a better stereo than the stock/BOSE?

speaking of POS, what does the POS mean on the navi control?

[Rogue]

Here's the Sedan(old pic from last year):
http://jaycwang.com/m32.jpglooks more like just cosmetic stuff, kind of like the Mazdaspeed RX-8.

[goldwing2000]

speaking of POS, what does the POS mean on the navi control?

POS (Position) key
Displays your current position.
( page 18)

[PR5Matt]

we are forgetting that the mazda3 5 door starts at 17k and some change so 23k seems reasonable. remember that when i got my p5 it was 17k and a msp was like 20-21k so yeah it shouldnt be too much of a price increase.

I was told 23K by a local dealer who went to a preview of the MS3 and CX7 and CX9 by Mazda. He also said that FWD vs AWD wasn't clear. He thought ours would be AWD. But he was firm on his assurance of a 23K base price.

[Rogue]

Based on what they did with the Mazdaspeed 6, the 3 will probably be $22,990 for the "Sport" model, and about $24,920 for the "Grand Touring." Grand Touring will include leather interior, Advanced Keyless Entry, 8-way heated driver seat. Moon Roof will only be available on the Grand Touring.

I hope the Mood Roof will be optional for both. I really lilke mine in the Pro5, but don't want leather interior.

[RODSCALIP5]

Based on what they did with the Mazdaspeed 6, the 3 will probably be $22,990 for the "Sport" model, and about $24,920 for the "Grand Touring." Grand Touring will include leather interior, Advanced Keyless Entry, 8-way heated driver seat. Moon Roof will only be available on the Grand Touring.

I hope the Mood Roof will be optional for both. I really lilke mine in the Pro5, but don't want leather interior.

As long as they keep those seats it should be all good.

[Rogue]

no moon roof in the pics.

Is "Mazdaspeed" used globally or just USDM?

[RODSCALIP5]

no moon roof in the pics.

Is "Mazdaspeed" used globally or just USDM?

Just USDM and JDM I believe.

[Rogue]

so the fact that the seats are stitched with MPS may cause us to get the regular seats to cut costs (not having to have seats stitched MPS and Mazdaseed).

[Antoine]

Thanks for posting more pics Rods (thumb)...I've added them to your original thread as well!

[RODSCALIP5]

Thanks Antoine (thumb)

I really hope they don't short change the U.S. on these seats, I really doubt they will.

[CHICO2003]

I think that Mazda will keep the price about $23 thousand, but let me tell you why. I think that Mazda is gonna market this car more against a GTI and the new Civic Si, which both start around the 20-22k range. Those prices are for the base model. While there is no doubt in anyones mind that Mazda will offer some options on the car to jack up the price, and their profits. Mazda would not need to alter the sticker of the regular 3 if they did this. Someone could get a fully loaded 3s for about 22 or 23, or get a base Mazdaspeed 3. They don't need to have a few thousand dollar gap between a fully loaded 3s and the base Mazdaspeed 3. Take your WRX example. While you can buy a WRX TR for about $24k, if you take the WRX and load it up on options it will hit close to $32, which is where the STI starts. This might entice the consumer to move up to the high performance model of any car. They could have the slower one with a bunch of options, or for the same price, they could have the high performance model for the same amount of money

While your logic isn't terribly off, saying a car will be X simply because they will be marketing against certain cars (that have already established their pricing) isn't bullet-proof. I'm not a fan of VW so I'm not sure what the hp rating is on the new GTI (nor am I going to bother and look it up) but chances arre its' not in the same ballpark as the MS3 (with what many believe will come with 230+) the Si is a modest 197 so it's already got a huge legup on that supposed competitor. While hp obviously isn't everything (take the srt-4 vs msp debate for example) when the cars being compared are relatively equal in the other categories (such as fit/finish, reliability, etc.) it can be what puts one on a higher level the the rest. Though it's impossible to compare a car that hasnt' come out yet to brand new models, in a hypothetical world, if the ms3 has a discernable edge over its competition in a key category, they'd be wise to price it slightly higher. Again, so many factors go into all of this.. .(maybe the VW's got something the mazda doesn't) so it's barely worth talking about...


As far as the fully loaded (minus the nav) 3 vs the upcoming MS3 goes... You mentioned a "base" ms3. this much certainly hasn't been made official yet either. If mazda were to use the same strategy with this car as they did the first 2 mazdapeeds (what you see is what you get) there won't be a "base" version. that said, while the fully loaded 3 may offer some buyers things they cannot get on the ms3 (leather seats for example) to price the 2 cars roughly the same (despite the leather) would be absurd.

Your WRX example is sound... here's why. While you can juice a non-STi WRX up to the 30k range, nobody does it. (so why does subaru have it as an option?) no clue! maybe it doesnt' cost them anything to have some options like $3k 17" bbs wheels (part of what gets a wrx up to that territory) so they figure, why not? Personally, to juice a WRX up to that level and NOT get the Sti is just crazy. So you say to me... but I want my leather seats and don't like the big wing on the Sti! LOL If you like your leather seats so much just get a damn audi! as far as the wing goes... chop it off! But I digress...

While it's possible to load a 3 up to the 23k+ range, most buyers don't... I suppose that's reason enough to expect/hope the MS3 will sell for about 23k

Since you can buy a fairly well equipped 230hp awd 06 WRX for $25k, it'll be interesting to see how well this thing sells. Back in 03, I bought the MSP because it was a good 5k less than the WRX... if it were only 2k less, I may not have gone the same route.

[CHICO2003]

we are forgetting that the mazda3 5 door starts at 17k and some change so 23k seems reasonable. remember that when i got my p5 it was 17k and a msp was like 20-21k so yeah it shouldnt be too much of a price increase.


Mazda 3 (wagon) S starts at $18,175 while the GT (basically adding leather seats) stickers for $19,725

Based on these figures, $23k is a steal! Hell, the Scion TC supercharger costs like $5k (with installation) and merely takes the 160hp TC to a more respectable 200hp Sounds like there will be a 70hp increase (with a bunch of other improvements) for far less coin. seriously guys... if it wasn't for the wrx, this car would steal the F'in show! It's a good thing the new rex is fugly as hell..... I guess the more I think about all of this, the more I understand mazda's decision. I'll be pullin for em!

.....still hope it comes in sedan form though! haha

[Mr. 4500 RPM]

You know there is one thing i dont understand, and well you go from bashing the mazdaspeed3 to then praising it? Come on who are you fooling...you want a wrx and couldnt afford one so got an msp, its fine and perfectly natural and ok but if your unhappy with it then thats your mistake not ours. I understand your concern about it not being awd but in the end its not our decision so just buck up and suck it up. so yeah no more of this side tracked jibba jabba more ms3 press release info.


Mazda 3 (wagon) S starts at $18,175 while the GT (basically adding leather seats) stickers for $19,725

Based on these figures, $23k is a steal! Hell, the Scion TC supercharger costs like $5k (with installation) and merely takes the 160hp TC to a more respectable 200hp Sounds like there will be a 70hp increase (with a bunch of other improvements) for far less coin. seriously guys... if it wasn't for the wrx, this car would steal the F'in show! It's a good thing the new rex is fugly as hell..... I guess the more I think about all of this, the more I understand mazda's decision. I'll be pullin for em!

.....still hope it comes in sedan form though! haha

[Newf]

Here's the Sedan(old pic from last year):

http://jaycwang.com/m3.jpg
http://jaycwang.com/m32.jpg


damn, if only....

[CHICO2003]

i was just teasing you about the speeling. ;) but like it or not, spelling and grammar can and do impact an argument's credibility.

Like it or not? Dude... that implies that I'm not a big fan of "spelling and grammar". (btw, when grammar enter the mix? last time I checked, you got on my case for not spelling torque right!) As far as impacting an argument's credibility goes... I'll agree with the grammar part and even the spelling part to an extent. (if it's severe enough) I'm guessing my one spelling mistake didn't affect (notice I didn't say "effect") my credibility. But thanks for pointing it out! : )



what do you hope i'm kidding about? the spelling joke or the fact that FWD/AWD ultimately makes no real difference to almost anyone on here besides for bench racing?

If you read my post again, it should be clear what I was refering to. (since it preceded my point about just how important spelling is on a forum like this. But anyway....



i think the point of bringing up ferraris wan't that ferraris have AWD, but that this is a frickin' economy car, not something absolutely dedicated to the highest performance possible.

A "frickin economy car" huh? (btw, i spelled frickin wrong) lol but seriously... the WRX, Sti and Evo are based on frickin economy cars but somehow that didn't stop their respective mfrs from putting in the system that's suddenly synonomous with "the highest perforance possible." ie. AWD



a little extra weight (and 2-300lbs is not "little") certainly can be offset by extra power...as long as all you care about is accelerating in straight line. EVERYTHING else besides that suffers...weight is bad, period.

You pretty much made my point for me. Originally homeboy was sayin it was an extra 500lbs. Though there's no way to know for sure, it seems like it might be closer to 300lbs. You just said 200lbs is a sizeable difference... in which I agree! One of my pet peeves in debates (if this could be considered one) is when people exagerate the truth to help prove their point. as long as we're sticking to facts (or something close to it) I'm cool.



AWD doesn't make the car corner or stop better. some of us care about those last 2 things a lot more than the first.

and some of us care about going fast, traction in any weather, cornering and stopping on a dime. Why not have it all? Since it's obviously a lot easier to give a car better breaks (and make it corner better for that matter) than throwing in a new drivetrain, if I had to prioritize, I think you know which one I'd choose first.


as far as safety in the snow, i don't see how AWD is safer. all cars have "4 wheel stop" and "2 wheel turn"...in other words, AWD helps you get going, but doesn't help any other place.

You serious? LOL Look, FWD is certainly more than adaquete for most. I have an awd element and, after seeing how much better it handles in the snow than my fwd msp (with pretty kick ass snow tires I might add) there definitely is an advantage. but you're right... it's not going to help you stop better. (duh) or even turn better.... well, that's debatable. getting out of a turn with awd (or rwd) is usually easier and more controllable than fwd. (less understeer) maybe it's psychological... afterall, the msp's slidpad rating is superior to the wrx... but that car just seemed to have that "on rails" handling even more than my car... I chalked it up to awd but who knows?


another way of looking at it is: "it gets you to your accident faster."

so awd gets you to your accident faster? sorry dude, not makin any sense there.


that said, i have nothing against AWD, but: A) it's not a magic performance cure-all...AWD isn't necessarily better; and B) there are valid reasons that mazda has (maybe) decided to stick w/ FWD for this car.

i don't think they have to do with "fear of trying something new" or "happy with mediocrity." if those were the case, the miata would be non-existent, and we'd still have the 626 and 929.

it just so happens that the decisions that were made were not the ones you'd make. fair enough, but that doesn't lessen their validity. i'd prefer that the 3s came in at about 2300 lbs...but i'm not running mazda, and i can understand why it doesn't.

whoa!! slow down there tanto! never said mazda was happy with mediocrity! quite the contrary! Listen... I know my rants may have been misconstrued as mazda bashing. I call it tough love. seriously... i freakin love mazda! I'm like that father you see at the game yellin his brains out... only wants to see his son hit a homerun. so what if this car is merely a failed attempt at a triple? they'll still score it a double on the scorecard! but enough baseball analogies... not even baseball season for cryin out loud!

As for your 2300lb weight ambition... I could throw that "this isn't a frickin ferrari" line at you... but I won't! :D

[Antoine]

Cool it Chico...DO NOT flame up this thread. You've already made your point...Let's keep this discussion going smoothly.

[CHICO2003]

More Pics and can you say 6-speed :D:


http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24229.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24829.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-25129.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-25629.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24329.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24429.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-26029.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-24629.jpg
http://**********************/gallery/albums/userpics/15761/M3-25029.jpg


While there's no denying the wagon's practicality... I'm with newf on this one. While this car isn't ugly by any stretch. there's nothing overlly special about it. (which may have been mazda's plan) Since the aggressively styled msp didn't sell well (for reaons that had nothingto do with it's styling btw) maybe their plan is to take the ms6 approach and keep things relatively conservative. if that's the case, I'm guessing I can't expect a spicy orange version of this car. (big sigh) viva anaranjado!!!

[Newf]

you both made your points, now lets not get the thread locked.

move on...

[Antoine]

Don't worry...This thread will not be locked...now let's get back to the MS3...I agree with you guys...It appears to be somewhat conservative like the MS6 in terms of styling. Almost in a "euro" way. That said...I like it! It helps to validate the MS3's performance potential. I feel something special about the MS3...It's based on a great car and it has character...I hope Mazda has a hit with this one...:D

[CHICO2003]

Cool it Chico...DO NOT flame up this thread. You've already made your point...Let's keep this discussion going smoothly.


Whoever said all genius minds were misunderstood wasn't kidding! Apparently those on the opposite end of the spectrum can be as well. Sorry dude, wasn't trying to "flame". Was merely contributing to a meaningful and, for the most part, intelligent debate on the virtues of awd and of course, my thoughts on the MS3. I don't think anyone's panties are in a bunch here... I mean, it's not like this is a VW or Honda forum! We mazda fans have thick skin!

but yeah.... point taken. game on!

[CHICO2003]

Can someone with some photoshop skillz make this thing orange? highly doubt mazda would have the ballz to come out with it but.... if they did, awd or not, I'd have to buy it.

[vindication]

I so want those seats!!

[RODSCALIP5]

Can someone with some photoshop skillz make this thing orange? highly doubt mazda would have the ballz to come out with it but.... if they did, awd or not, I'd have to buy it.

I think they will come out with the Spicy Orange. It's the MS signature color, on Sport Compacts at least.

[CHICO2003]

Well then they already have my deposit.

[Rogue]

I want mine in red, just like the pictures, just like my car...