Struts on the MSP.... looking for the facts

[UnNaturalinc]

I've read the perch sits higher on the MSP struts, maybe just the rears. This is why the back end sits so high when lowering w/ springs.

I was recently told I can get just off the shelf Tokicos would bring the back end of my car down a bit. Also stiffen the ride slightly (I always though the MSP struts were off the shelf Tokico, but I guess not now).

I don't want this rake in my car anymore, that's for sure.

I'm debating on new struts or D2 coilovers now.


.....discuss

[MrDiggler]

Somewhere in this subforum I've run across pictures of the stock Tokico struts standing beside the "other" Tokicos. Unfortunately, I can't remember what that thread was titled, but I do remember seeing a difference in the perches, and I may have actually posted asking why there was a difference. I know that the thread would have been posted to newer than 6 months ago, if that helps you search. It may have been a thread about the green Mazdaspeed struts, but I just can't remember for sure. Sorry. Good luck. I'm curious now too.

[UnNaturalinc]

The green ones are actual Mazdaspeed parts from Japan. By actual Mazdaspeed I mean the company oppose to the "badge" in the United States.

[UnNaturalinc]

Someone has to have the info on this....

Also, anyone know what the stock struts are worth fromt he MSP used?

[Jan]

i had illuminas... and stock struts r tokico blues.. i believe they r the same.. i mean the srtucture (outer wise) is pretty much the same

[srd555]

Here are some pics of the Illuminas vs the stock MSP blues.(rears only, the fronts are the same)

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2129357&postcount=33

I also happen to know that the off the shelf Blues are the same as the Illuminas.

[apocman]

Well it looks like the blues that come on our cars have the perch sitting higher or do all blues sit higher than the Illuminas?

[apocman]

BTW, your getting some positve rep luvin for your pics

[UnNaturalinc]

BTW, your getting some positve rep luvin for your pics

Yeah, no crap... I knew someone had to know the facts. ha

Well, if they are in fact regular off the shelf Blues (HP's) then I may just get the backs and save myself a lot of money. heh



Thanks man!

[srd555]

BTW, your getting some positve rep luvin for your pics

Thank you very much. (alright)

Bye the way, here is the original thread.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123617848&page=2&pp=15

[UnNaturalinc]

I called Tokico and Racing Beat both to see what they had to say.

The "Protege guy" is no longer at Tokico (the guy who had the red P5 you see in ads). The guy I spoke with didn't really want to help it seemed. However, he did say they are NOT an off the shelf HP. They're a slightly less aggressive version spec'ed for "Mazdaspeed".

As for Racing Beat, the guy didn't have specific info either. He actually told me it must be some freak thing my rear perches are lower (wtf? That’s not even the slightest bit possible). He didn't think it'd be a problem to JUST change the rear struts. I don't know I feel about that honestly... It's probably not "bad" to do, but I'd rather not experiment with the possibility of messing up a good suspension system.


*frustrating... I'm not expect everyone/anyone to answer my specific questions, but don't make up answers. Get me to the right person... goodness. /rant

[JDM Sam]

I've read the perch sits higher on the MSP struts, maybe just the rears. This is why the back end sits so high when lowering w/ springs.

I was recently told I can get just off the shelf Tokicos would bring the back end of my car down a bit. Also stiffen the ride slightly (I always though the MSP struts were off the shelf Tokico, but I guess not now).

I don't want this rake in my car anymore, that's for sure.

I'm debating on new struts or D2 coilovers now.


.....discuss

you work at a retail place. get coilovers.

[UnNaturalinc]

you work at a retail place. get coilovers.

Who do you think I am? Brian Spilner?

[JDM Sam]

come on man. get them.

[low_psi]

typical white boy name!

[MrDiggler]

Here are some pics of the Illuminas vs the stock MSP blues.(rears only, the fronts are the same)

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2129357&postcount=33

I also happen to know that the off the shelf Blues are the same as the Illuminas.

Yep, those are the pics I was referring to!! + rep for you!

[MrDiggler]

Who do you think I am? Brian Spilner?

Omg, that's the best laugh I've had in a while! *crying*

Yeah, gimme those coilovers and some naaaawwwwzzz!

[MrDiggler]

I called Tokico and Racing Beat both to see what they had to say.

The "Protege guy" is no longer at Tokico (the guy who had the red P5 you see in ads). The guy I spoke with didn't really want to help it seemed. However, he did say they are NOT an off the shelf HP. They're a slightly less aggressive version spec'ed for "Mazdaspeed".

As for Racing Beat, the guy didn't have specific info either. He actually told me it must be some freak thing my rear perches are lower (wtf? That’s not even the slightest bit possible). He didn't think it'd be a problem to JUST change the rear struts. I don't know I feel about that honestly... It's probably not "bad" to do, but I'd rather not experiment with the possibility of messing up a good suspension system.

I'm now in the market for some new struts. Mine seem to be ok at 47k miles, but after some research I picked up a set of Goldline springs and figure I'll go ahead and replace them while everything's apart. I've looked at the Tokico Illumina and Mazdaspeed "green" struts so far, and am not thrilled with the price tag for either one. One of my other concerns is making sure my relatively soft Goldline springs aren't overdamped.

What I'd like to know is if anyone has had any direct experience with running Tokico HP's or "blues" with a fairly non-aggressive spring like the Goldlines. From what I've read it appears that the HP's are what the factory MSP struts are based on, but that they're NOT the same thing as what we can get from Tokico in the aftermarket. Apparently the aftermarket HP rears have a lower spring perch like the Illuminas and overall the HP's may be slightly stiffer than what Mazda and Racing Beat developed for the MSP. Someone reported that they had been slightly detuned for the stock application. If that is correct, the aftermarket HP's should match up well with the Goldline springs for someone like me. That is, someone who loves twisty mountain roads but rarely exceeds 8/10ths and doesn't do autocross or track days. I spend a lot of time in my MSP for both work and pleasure and therefore ride quality is important to me. From what I can figure out, both the Illuminas and the MS "green" struts may be stiffer than what I need/want. Please tell me that the aftermarket HP's will work at least as well as the factory struts and save me $200 over Illuminas!

[livelyjay]

I think ONRAILS is running the stock blues and Goldline springs, shoot him a PM. I've looked into the different options for the struts and springs, and I think the D2 or K-Sport coilovers would be the best overall option. I think the K-Sports cost around $800, which is what new struts and springs would run you any ways and they will be easier to install because you won't need a spring compressor.

Does KYB make struts that fit out car?

To answer my own question, KYB does not :(

[Tommy1005]

KYB makes the GR2's for the standard protege, so yes they make them for our car, atleast in the rear. The guy at advanced auto parts is still trying to figure out why they list a part number for the fronts, but they don't give him a price. I'll let you know what I find out.

[Tommy1005]

KYB's website lists GR2's, but say they will not fit the MSP. However, the MSP uses the same springs as the regular sedan and the other shocks I have found have the same part number for the MSP and for the regular sedan, so I'm 99% sure they will work. For $65 a piece, they are definitely the best deal on the market if they fit.

[UnNaturalinc]

KYB makes the GR2's for the standard protege, so yes they make them for our car, atleast in the rear. The guy at advanced auto parts is still trying to figure out why they list a part number for the fronts, but they don't give him a price. I'll let you know what I find out.

GR2's are not performance struts, and would probably be worse than what the MSP has from the factory.

[smo0f]

ben is a piece of shit, don't listen to anything he says. p.s. i'm ordering from you on wednesday.

[UnNaturalinc]

ben is a piece of shit, don't listen to anything he says. p.s. i'm ordering from you on wednesday.

And a piece of shit is exactly what you'll get in your order beeeehootch.

[smo0f]

cream on top please

[Tommy1005]

the GR2's will work perfectly fine for what I need them for.....I have had them on trucks in the past and they made them handle just fine, lasted forever, and didn't break the bank, which is what I'm looking for in a shock......atleast I'm not putting Monroe's on the thing

[MrDiggler]

To clarify, I know the Goldines work ok on the stock "blues", but I guess I'm really wondering what the differences are between our tweaked factory HP's and the standard HP's, and if the standard HP's would be an acceptable match for my springs.

Coilovers are not an option right now because of the much higher spring rates and the ride that results from that.

[UnNaturalinc]

Yeah, all springs work on MSP sturts.... But it's a matter of how it sits is the issue.

[livelyjay]

the GR2's will work perfectly fine for what I need them for.....I have had them on trucks in the past and they made them handle just fine, lasted forever, and didn't break the bank, which is what I'm looking for in a shock......atleast I'm not putting Monroe's on the thing
The GR2's will not work in a lowered application. If you were putting these on a stock/regular Protege, then I would say it would be a great OEM replacement choice. As for an application like the MSP, they would not work. My friend put these on his Maxima with Tein S-tech springs and his brand new GR2's blew in 6 months.

[livelyjay]

Oh, you can get Tein BASICS for just over $800, so don't count out that option.

[UnNaturalinc]

The GR2's will not work in a lowered application. If you were putting these on a stock/regular Protege, then I would say it would be a great OEM replacement choice. As for an application like the MSP, they would not work. My friend put these on his Maxima with Tein S-tech springs and his brand new GR2's blew in 6 months.


The MSP is not lowered very much with those stock springs so I really don't think there would be a problem really. However, I see more of a problem in spending all that extra money on the Mazdaspeed model and making it perform worse by putting lower grade suspension on then what it came with. :)

Yes, if you are putting lowering springs on the car you should definitely not use something like a GR2.

[Tommy1005]

I've got them on a 95 Chevy ex. cab with a 3/5 drop and they've been on there for about 100,000 miles of towing and hard use with no problems. I'll trust the KYB's for my application

[UnNaturalinc]

Well I think I'm just going to order some Tokico Blues....

[Firewired]

Here are some pics of the Illuminas vs the stock MSP blues.(rears only, the fronts are the same)

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2129357&postcount=33

I also happen to know that the off the shelf Blues are the same as the Illuminas.



Bringing a thread back to life !


I am planning on buying Illuminas for my P5 but it looks like I would have a sagging rear end , which I want to stay away from.


The MSP shocks and the RB springs I have on right now are PERFECT in terms of height. It will annoy the shit out of me if the car sags.

I want Illumina's for solo2 stuff. Anybody have some info and/or solutions ?


Maybe my only solution will be to get some new MSP shocks from the dealer or maybe I could be brave enough to take the guts out of some brand new Illuminas or HP and put them in the MSP perch I have.

Any suspension pros with some good advise in here ?

[livelyjay]

Bringing a thread back to life !


I am planning on buying Illuminas for my P5 but it looks like I would have a sagging rear end , which I want to stay away from.


The MSP shocks and the RB springs I have on right now are PERFECT in terms of height. It will annoy the shit out of me if the car sags.

I want Illumina's for solo2 stuff. Anybody have some info and/or solutions ?


Maybe my only solution will be to get some new MSP shocks from the dealer or maybe I could be brave enough to take the guts out of some brand new Illuminas or HP and put them in the MSP perch I have.

Any suspension pros with some good advise in here ?

Illuminas and RB springs will make your car sag. The MSP struts have a higher spring perch, which annoys the crap out of us MSP owners because we can't buy off the shelf struts and be stock legal for SCCA.

You have two options:
1) New MSP struts from the dealership or onlinemazdaparts.com and continue using the RB springs. The struts aren't cheap, and will run you over $700 shipped.
2) New Tokico Illumias and new springs. There is a spring comparison thread on here, you can just compare the drop of the RB springs to others and find the one that is the closest. Tokico also sells a "ILK" kit that has both struts and springs in one box. Not sure about the drop for the springs though.

[Firewired]

Illuminas and RB springs will make your car sag. The MSP struts have a higher spring perch, which annoys the crap out of us MSP owners because we can't buy off the shelf struts and be stock legal for SCCA.

You have two options:
1) New MSP struts from the dealership or onlinemazdaparts.com and continue using the RB springs. The struts aren't cheap, and will run you over $700 shipped.
2) New Tokico Illumias and new springs. There is a spring comparison thread on here, you can just compare the drop of the RB springs to others and find the one that is the closest. Tokico also sells a "ILK" kit that has both struts and springs in one box. Not sure about the drop for the springs though.



Cool.. so im not the only one with that "problem".


I really like the RB's. I would rather keep them and figure out something with the shocks. Thinking of gutting out the MSP ones and putting Illumnas in. Nissan guys are doing it for Konis on B13s.

[Firewired]

Looking around, I just found this.


http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123651640&highlight=Koni


Ill have to speak to Jeff at Tri-Point about it.


Here is another example.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1219607

[mazda03maniac]

can't there just be something easy for our cars i swear.

[toMMy_O]

subscibble...i love how car rides...gonna need new strut one day

[jhillzoom]

I want to lower my P5 and just installed KYB GR2s. Whats the best spring to use? I don't want to go lower than 1 inch so would the KYB's work?

[jhillzoom]

bumb...

[CulRidr]

Aren't GR2s the stock replacement struts? If not, there is some bad info floating around...

[Speed3.5]

forget GR2's ppl, they're not good on any other car so far.

That kony inserts on subi's forum looks tempting.

How about Illuminas + H&R sport springs, H&R SPrings don't lower much MSP's but they have good spring rate to provide good DD and spirited drive.

what would be the struts rate and spring rate to match up a good set up ?? anywhere near 250 F&R

I'm looking to replaice mine cus the driver side doesn't bounce nice when i go over something in highway, it's like dead + on turns doesn't hold when i take exit ramps that are right-sided but left sided is fucking great handeling.

[Firewired]

speed3.5, you're absolutely right about the GR2s. Why get KYBs when tokicos work so good for this car.

What I will end up doing, is buy some Illuminas and have a local machine shop build me a spacer so that the spring sits 1(or so) inch higher to match the stock MSP struts. Therefore ill have the same stance as I have right now.

Alot of trouble, but I love my RB springs. Just perfect IMO. And dont forget, I drive a P5.

[poonpower]

okokok, now im really confused. I read somewhere that the off the shelf tokico blues have lower spring perches, and running the msp springs will cause the rear to sag. I am pretty set on the suspension kit offered by tokico, that has the springs included, but that drops the car too much, around 1.75inchs.
will running the msp springs (since they are cheap) on off the shelf blues cause the rear to look horrid?

[hsumra]

will running the msp springs (since they are cheap) on off the shelf blues cause the rear to look horrid?

I have a set of the MSP Springs at home... I need to look into the MSP Struts or a replacement... any suggestions?