Cylinder head build?

[tricura]

What are some good valvetrain components for the 03 MSP. I am looking into building one and was looking for that and some good cams as well. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[anarchistchiken]

Umm, MIGHT be a better idea to post this in the MSP section. Just an idea.

[Gambino]

moved from mazda3 engine section

[anarchistchiken]

Hizza!

[tricura]

Hizza!
sorry thought that is were I posted. guess i was not looking.

[quatelate]

i have heard that running the jdm mazdaspeed intake cam with the stock exhaust cam gives good gains... i think there is a thread around about how people had a problem when running both the intake and exhaust cams

[tricura]

i have heard that running the jdm mazdaspeed intake cam with the stock exhaust cam gives good gains... i think there is a thread around about how people had a problem when running both the intake and exhaust cams
looking for more, i am building at least a 500hp motor and can't find valvetrain. I want to be completely reliable on all ends

[anarchistchiken]

It's gonna cost you $40,000 to make this driveline relieable at 500 hp.

[smo0f]

It's gonna cost you $40,000 to make this driveline relieable at 500 hp.

it would be nice if you could give more detail to backup your theory. why won't it be reliable at 500hp? what needs to be changed? What will cost "$40,000" ?

[peepsalot]

Built engine, reworked head, rebuilt transmission, huge turbo and all piping to go with it, FMIC, upgraded clutch, better LSD, ugraded cooling system, EMS + tons of tuning time, injectors and other fuel system upgrades. There's plenty to add up and I'm sure I'm skipping a lot of things. No one has even broken 400hp yet to the best of my knowledge. Multiplying the stock horsepower output of an engine by 5 is no simple task. I don't know that it would cost 40k, but I'd guess 15k at the very least, just in parts...no labor or tuning/dyno costs. Many people have put more than that into their car and are still hovering around 300.

[peepsalot]

i am building at least a 500hp motor...I want to be completely reliable on all ends
(hahaspit)
You gotta be fucking kidding me. Get a v8.

[Gambino]

looking for more, i am building at least a 500hp motor and can't find valvetrain. I want to be completely reliable on all ends
to have one of these you pretty much have to sacrifice the other

[tricura]

to have one of these you pretty much have to sacrifice the other
nobody is saying reliable: as in daily driver, I have a 550hp honda, its not reliable but the components are reliable for the horsepower level. As for the V8 comment they aren't reliable at all. Show me one that is reliable and a daily driver. I wasn't asking for bashing just asking for advise on components out there. I am not able to find any already made myself, other then doing custom, but if that's the route then I'll take that path. And have to be the first to set the trend.

[peepsalot]

The mazdaspeed cams are the only cam option I am aware of, and they are not a huge difference from stock. When I say mazdaspeed, I mean the racing division, they are not the ones that come with the mazdaspeed protege. Beyond that, you will have to get your own custom ground cams, which I don't know much about. I don't think there are many mazdaspeeds out there that have had work done on their head. I know some of the NA guys have though, and they are very knowledgable on the subject. Try asking in that section. Mazda Protege's don't have the aftermarket support that you would get from a honda. Anything you have done to your head will have to be a unique custom job.

[tricura]

The mazdaspeed cams are the only cam option I am aware of, and they are not a huge difference from stock. When I say mazdaspeed, I mean the racing division, they are not the ones that come with the mazdaspeed protege. Beyond that, you will have to get your own custom ground cams, which I don't know much about. I don't think there are many mazdaspeeds out there that have had work done on their head. I know some of the NA guys have though, and they are very knowledgable on the subject. Try asking in that section. Mazda Protege's don't have the aftermarket support that you would get from a honda. Anything you have done to your head will have to be a unique custom job.
Cool thanks, keep the replys coming any info is a big help.

[peepsalot]

Try to find out what this guy did to his head.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2222727&postcount=79

[quatelate]

Try to find out what this guy did to his head.
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2222727&postcount=79
that 323 is SERIOUS

[low_psi]

Eibach makes stiffer valvesprings w/ aftermarket retainers. For cams, you'll have to get a custom ground set. Rev'ing this motor really high isn't a great idea though. Look into the geometry of the rotating assembly and you'll know why.

[Mental Addiction]

What are some good valvetrain components for the 03 MSP. I am looking into building one and was looking for that and some good cams as well. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

The only off the shelf Aftermarket part offered for the Mazda head is the Eibach Valve springs. For valves you will have to get custom made ones. For the cams you can get the Mazda Billet Blanks for $99 each and have Comp,Crower,Cam Motion,etc grind them. They charge about $150 per cam.
For head porting I would recommend finding a quality head porter that has the right hand and knowledge.
As for making 500HP, It can be done. Right now I have a Marine that made 487whp. He spent alot of money and will continue to.
He is in Iraq right now, but should be back in 7-8 months.
This is what he's running
Mental Addiction Thumper kit W/ GT35R
Mental Addiction Shortblock
Head was ported and built by Kenny Duttweiler and Todd Mckenzie (one of the best in the business).
Custom cams
Haltech E6X that he bought from Juan
Mental Addiction Stage 3 fuel system
either 650 or 750cc injectors
Qualife LSD
Par transmission gears
Spec Stage 3 Full face
Spec Aluminum Flywheel

[daedalus]

Eibach makes stiffer valvesprings w/ aftermarket retainers. For cams, you'll have to get a custom ground set. Rev'ing this motor really high isn't a great idea though. Look into the geometry of the rotating assembly and you'll know why.

Ditto. Corksport.com carries the eibach valve springs. Crower and Web offer custom regrinds you could do. I havent heard of anyone actually putting the mazdaspeed cam into a USDM MSP though... not sure of the gains, if any in that. Maybe some cam specs would help us figure this out.

To be honest bud, low_psi is right, you dont want to be revving much over 7k with these engines. The FS-DE has solid lifter to begin with (IIRC) so valve float isnt much of a problem, but extended high-rpm runs (aka top speed runs... *wink wink*) may require the valve train to be beefed up. Not many people have built heads though, i can only think of Brian_MP5t. They are pretty good from stock with a P/P job.

Dont get me wrong, when i get crazy in a couple months i'm definatly getting cams and a built head... there are huge gains to be realized there, but being the first person allways is the hardest, and the most expensive. Care to lead the way this time? (first)

[Mental Addiction]

Robp5T has a built head. He is spinning to 7500-8000rpms.

[TampaSport20]

As for the V8 comment they aren't reliable at all. Show me one that is reliable and a daily driver. .

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

Are you serious ??? :rolleyes:

500hp on a V8 out of the box...

Corvette Z06...Guaranteed it's more reliable and a better daily driver than a 2.0L making 500hp

500 hp can be made reliably with a few mods on most domestic V8's currently offered

[peepsalot]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

Are you serious ??? :rolleyes:

500hp on a V8 out of the box...

Corvette Z06...Guaranteed it's more reliable and a better daily driver than a 2.0L making 500hp

500 hp can be made reliably with a few mods on most domestic V8's currently offered
I was just gonna kinda let that one go, but yeah.

[Padre]

Anyone tried the Mazdaspeed Intake and/or exhaust cams on a turbo application yet? Is it worth the install or would there only really be an advantage with NA?

[TampaSport20]

Anyone tried the SR Motorsports Intake and/or exhaust cams on a turbo application yet? Is it worth the install or would there only really be an advantage with NA?

better to have some turbo cams made

[peepsalot]

they're kinda bogus
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101412&highlight=shane+cam

[anarchistchiken]

For 500 relieable whp, you will need...

Completely built bottom end ($3500-4000 + figure ~$2500 for installation and shipping

Completely built and machined head (at least $3000, if you go wild you could get it close to $6000, + 500 for shipping and instilation)

Revised fuel rail/pump/lines/injector setup (probably at least $1000)

Full standalone ECU (anywhere from $1000 to $2500)

MAM Thumper kit or similair setup ($4000 + $500-$1000 installation)

Ok, so that's what you'll need for the engine, and you're already up to almost $20,000. Then you start hitting the transmission, which is by far the weak point in our cars with a built motor. To have a reliable transmission at 500 whp, you'll need to either get a completely custom setup, wait for the gears that Turfburn is still developing adn then strengthen the case, or shell out the $20,000 for that super uber tranny that's available (forget what it's name is)

So there, if you want a really solid, reliable 500 whp FS-DE, that's $40,000 right there. Of course you can do it for cheaper if you dont mind replacing a transmission every few weeks, but as a daily driven car, it's just insane to want that kind of power out of these cars.

[Mental Addiction]

Kenny Duttweiler/Todd Mckenzie charged me $2000 to port/polish runners, chamber work, guides, sets. Ferr. Valves, Eibach springs,valve job,etc and assemble the last head I had done. It's not cheap. Then Cam Motion did the cams. You will have about $2500-$2800 in a fully built head.
Motor will set you back $3495(inlcuding core) or so.

Next is going to be the intake manifold. The stock intake manifold has long runners. Good for low/mid range power. A bottle neck for high HP and RPM's.
You can do a custom sheetmetal or build your own.

[tricura]

Kenny Duttweiler/Todd Mckenzie charged me $2000 to port/polish runners, chamber work, guides, sets. Ferr. Valves, Eibach springs,valve job,etc and assemble the last head I had done. It's not cheap. Then Cam Motion did the cams. You will have about $2500-$2800 in a fully built head.
Motor will set you back $3495(inlcuding core) or so.

Next is going to be the intake manifold. The stock intake manifold has long runners. Good for low/mid range power. A bottle neck for high HP and RPM's.
You can do a custom sheetmetal or build your own.
You guys are correct on being expensive if the first to do this, but that is what we are planning to do. I will have the valves made probably Ferrea, and then offer them to the public after that. Thanks for the Eibach insight, definitley going that route. As for the cams, I like the idea of the blanks and then playing with the grinds to figure what is going to be best. The bottom end is already done so we wanted to focus on the head and have good quality parts in it. I am not sure on the revs just yet cause you are right the geometry says it want handle 9k. Guess I am used to Hondas were 9k is nothing. We are doing a huge turbo setup on here. It is going to be mainly a drag car with tags on it, so I am not looking to daily drive this thing. I just wanted some input from you guys to help find good relaible parts, not some cheap ass stuff that will break under these kinda loads. As for the trans it is all being treated and bigger axles in the makings, of course there will be engine management probably AEM since i am fimiliar with it. I will keep eveyone up to date with pics as we go along.

[MPNick]

You guys are correct on being expensive if the first to do this, but that is what we are planning to do. I will have the valves made probably Ferrea, and then offer them to the public after that. Thanks for the Eibach insight, definitley going that route. As for the cams, I like the idea of the blanks and then playing with the grinds to figure what is going to be best. The bottom end is already done so we wanted to focus on the head and have good quality parts in it. I am not sure on the revs just yet cause you are right the geometry says it want handle 9k. Guess I am used to Hondas were 9k is nothing. We are doing a huge turbo setup on here. It is going to be mainly a drag car with tags on it, so I am not looking to daily drive this thing. I just wanted some input from you guys to help find good relaible parts, not some cheap ass stuff that will break under these kinda loads. As for the trans it is all being treated and bigger axles in the makings, of course there will be engine management probably AEM since i am fimiliar with it. I will keep eveyone up to date with pics as we go along.

We can do any work to your cylinder head that you want. We also can have any valve size that you may need made. We have done a few Protege heads for people on this forum.

As for the lower end. We can also do a custom set up for you. We would use the Manley Turbo Tuff rods. The Honda guys make killer power with them. We would regrind the crankshaft to get you better oiling and bearing life under big boost. We would machine a full girdle to support the 500whp that you are looking for. The block will not twist or flex. I would never trust the stock main caps and oil pan rail system that comes from Mazda. The J spec camshaft seem to hurt the lower end spool up more then it help the topend output. The problem with the blank cores is the cost and the shims for setting the lash. If you are sure that you want 500hp then we can help you get there.

[smo0f]

I don't know, maybe it's just me. But say that was my car, or even if i touched it or helped build it, shit, if one of my products were installed in a car that dynoed, i dunno, let's think of a random number, okay, 487 whp, do you know what i would do? I would post a dyno sheet. I would go to 10 places and dyno it just so i can get a sheet, and run back as fast as i can to my computer to post. So, please, shut me up, and post the dyno.



The only off the shelf Aftermarket part offered for the Mazda head is the Eibach Valve springs. For valves you will have to get custom made ones. For the cams you can get the Mazda Billet Blanks for $99 each and have Comp,Crower,Cam Motion,etc grind them. They charge about $150 per cam.
For head porting I would recommend finding a quality head porter that has the right hand and knowledge.
As for making 500HP, It can be done. Right now I have a Marine that made 487whp. He spent alot of money and will continue to.
He is in Iraq right now, but should be back in 7-8 months.
This is what he's running
Mental Addiction Thumper kit W/ GT35R
Mental Addiction Shortblock
Head was ported and built by Kenny Duttweiler and Todd Mckenzie (one of the best in the business).
Custom cams
Haltech E6X that he bought from Juan
Mental Addiction Stage 3 fuel system
either 650 or 750cc injectors
Qualife LSD
Par transmission gears
Spec Stage 3 Full face
Spec Aluminum Flywheel

[wicked]

by the way,AWR has blank cams for sale,is you really want power,then you need to go this route,and figure out your exact duaration,and lift needed.

[daedalus]

Speaking of which, Beau, do you know any cam specs on what he was running on his regrinds? I'd like to do this in the future, but i dont think anyone has ever discussed exactly we should be changing to be making more power.

[arlsmazdaspeed]

Yea, i would be more interested in those numbers for the regrind too ....

[Brian MP5T]

Pistons and Rods would be cheaper.

[wicked]

Pistons and Rods would be cheaper.



yeah,I wouldn't even think about doing cams if I was on the stock bottom end.

[Mental Addiction]

Speaking of which, Beau, do you know any cam specs on what he was running on his regrinds? I'd like to do this in the future, but i dont think anyone has ever discussed exactly we should be changing to be making more power.

I do not. Before Chirs left he got his car running and dyno'd it. He was going to send me the cam specs and dyno sheet before he left, but did not. He left only a few days later.